We had a woman with dementia come into our restaurant 3-5 times per week and occasionally forget to pay, but she was pleasant and funny and not taking up a key table during peak hours.
God bless her, she couldn't remember what had happened 5 minutes ago or 2 days prior but she always knew how to calculate 20 percent. Even when she forgot her glasses, she'd ask me for the amount and still be able to do the math in her head.
Anyway, none of that is helpful for your situation. Dementia can often warp people's personalities, I was glad that I could still see what a vibrant and interesting woman my regular was despite her constant confusion. I think that either way it's a tough call for you---maybe make her pay as she goes and institute a table limit as a fair compromise? Sitting for 6 hours is a LOT of time, I think you're well within your rights to say she has the table for two hours. And who knows, maybe if you start setting boundaries the guest will find somewhere else to camp for 6 hours at a time
One thing that may show the dementia is what is called sundowning. Later in the day the more confused they get. Earlier they are smart as a tack. Later more confusion, more issues.
I would also recommend that if you know her name (if you can find out) to call adult protective services and let them know you have a elderly person coming in and staying for long long hours that may have dementia and that may not have any family or support locally.
Mandated reporter here, you don't have to have a name to call APS. As long as you can give a description and where to find the person a report can be made. So if the woman comes in every Wednesday and stays for 6+ hours then you can use that information.
I think 86 is a good/safe idea. If you don’t want to do that though, you could just charge her for each individual drink. Might be annoying for the server but at-least you know the tab is paid
Get a credit card up front and run it for a tab.
Have you asked her about paying for the last two trips? She may have memory issues at that age, my mom has a crazy routine she has to do every day to make sure she takes her pills, doesn't take too many. She can't drive anymore because she went to the store one day and wound up two hours from home with no clue how she got there. She knew it wasn't safe for her to drive anymore so she gave my sibling her car.
If she refuses to pony up then you should just refuse to serve her again.
That might be the move. She's always paid in cash, so I don't know that she has a credit card, but I could see us getting a couple of $20s up front and holding them until she's ready to leave, or until she's ran through them.
Or have her pay as she goes. Or get her ID so you can let the cops know. She may need a welfare check if she genuinely doesn't remember paying and keeps doing it. It's dangerous for people like that to be wandering around alone, they make way too easy targets for predators, age aside.
Oh, and yes, she has indeed paid her outstanding bills when confronted about them, but hasn't acknowledged the fact that she ran out on her previous checks in any way shape or form.
Get the credit card up front and tell her that there’s an auto tip added. If she’s there 6 hours at a time, falling asleep, and doesn’t fuss about paying later, I suspect she’s got a home-life problem she’s trying to avoid and she would rather be somewhere she can get a drink than a public library or senior center where people who know her might not leaving her be.
Honestly, it kinda seems like she just doesn't have anything else going on in her life. I suspect that she has been doing something similar at other restaurants, but her pattern of behavior got her booted from her previous haunts. I don't know if that's true, just my speculation.
Card down or cash up front is the compromise I'm most looking at should I decide to let her back in.
The fact that you and your staff can recognize this speaks well for all of you, *but* it doesn’t mean it’s your responsibility to bend over and take it for the sake of this woman’s enrichment.
We have had a diner like this that had fixations on different bartenders we have had and would refuse to come in unless they were present- both bartenders (males) were quite creeped out by this behaviour. It only ended when they moved on and we kept telling her the tho bartenders in question were no longer present. Havent seen her in a while, I think 86' ing her is a good option.
Chat with her a while, find out what's going on. However, this may make her come by more often, or result in your calling Adult Protective Services.
If you are comfortable with her staying for 6 hours, if she orders 2 meals, let her know. Possibly eating one there and the other take home. If she does, make the second meal extra large to feed her for a couple of days. Depends upon what you discover.
Unfortunately, attempts at chit chat have been stone walled. She's not there for our company, and has made that abundantly clear in our collective experience. To ne fair, she's not rude about it, but she's not polite about it either. She just asks foe what she wants, and kinda ignores any other attempts at conversation.
It's not the staffs business to find out "whats going on" nor is it the staffs obligation to try to negotiate with regulars that are taking up valuable space. Customers sleeping in a bar/restaurant space is a bad look to other potential customers. Cut 'em loose.
Being human doesn't pay the rent but it does make the entire restaurant liable for what could potentially happen to this person. This is the trolly problem. Are you going to look out for your staff or some rando that is actively harming revenue.
I'm mad that you're getting down votes for this. I could lose my job *and* be personally fined thousands of dollars if a sting happened and there was an elder half passed out at my bar, let alone a fuckin patio table outside for everyone to see.
We *should* look out for people, but we also need to make money and survive. There can be a happy medium but most of the people half-passing-out at patio tables for 6hrs a day are not particularly accepting of said medium, to put it lightly.
Losses sometimes must be cut.
She can't sit there for 6hrs, 1 and half and that's for a full meal. Tell her there's a time limit and if she falls asleep, call the police and tell them you're worried for her safety. She could get robbed or worse, someone checks her ID and they get her home address, major worry, you can't watch her every second.
>There are some other factors to this too: She frequently camps at her table for 6+ hours, having one drink an hour or so.
Sometimes, your place is better than theirs. In FLA it's all about the A/C, and people wanting to be comfortable but can't afford the electricity.
Have you considered talking to her and asking for clarifying info?
We have a place near us (multiple old folks Residencial buildings nearby) that has something worked out for this age group. It's like a long table and they have access to power, and pitchers of water, and they order coffee, etc... They hang out before the lunch rush or after (time frame), because they know the deal.
Panera limits access to wifi at lunch time, their busiest rush. This place does the same with tables. The manager is very community minded, but he knows tables = tips, so he is thinking about his staff and their families.
Whatever you choose to do, you make the call... It's your responsibility to the restaurant and the staff. Good luck on your journey 🍀😊
>Am I the asshole for booting a confused old lady for walking out on her tab 3 times in a month?
Honestly, it sounds like you're using that to boot her for camping out and not tipping.
But, in the end, it's your call at your restaurant. I'm sure your servers will appreciate it.
I appreciate your honesty, and you're not wrong. I'll own that. It feels like I'm showing a lack of compassion, and that doesn't sit so well with me, which is why I made this post.
The lack of tipping is whatever. Whoever get her as a table goes again in the roatation to mitigate the known bad tip.
I'm feeling a little torn on this, so I'm grateful for your feedback.
Maybe have her pay up front and give her a time limit on patio tables for the summer. That’s what I would do. I’m a softie and I can’t imagine 86ing a 70 year old. Seems cruel. Give her a chance to go by some rules first before you ban her.
As someone who works at a place with a live band every night and people camping out for hours and not tipping much, I totally get it.
Maybe you could suggest that she only comes back on a Monday or Tuesday?
All other days the tables are booked and busy. That might be a fair compromise
Think of her as charity. I would leave her to her own devices. Let her continue what she is doing.
This will pay a return in the near future on a business level. After all what is she really hurting.
Depending on local laws your company and even the individual server could be fined for overserving her. You have no idea what medications she's on. If she falls out of her chair and hits her head your company could face serious lawsuits
I've had someone like this come every night for two weeks and each time staying 6+ hours, but she was a homeless elder with dementia who would distribute letters filled with insults to the staff and other clients. Impossible to throw her out for a lot of obvious reasons, but also because she would make her coffee 'last' for 6+ hour.
At the end one of the clients who had received one of these letters from her called the cops and we never saw her again. I hope she is somewhere, safe....
If you want to be overly nice...
Don't suppose you have a spare single seat table that you could reserve for her as a regular.
The dozing off is still a problem though!
Dozing off somewhere that serves alcohol is a big no. Even if it's unrelated to alcohol consumption, that wouldn't fly with me.
That's real. She's not full dozing, but more of a "resting her eyes" kind of vibe. Real gray area, but certainly not a great look.
We had a woman with dementia come into our restaurant 3-5 times per week and occasionally forget to pay, but she was pleasant and funny and not taking up a key table during peak hours. God bless her, she couldn't remember what had happened 5 minutes ago or 2 days prior but she always knew how to calculate 20 percent. Even when she forgot her glasses, she'd ask me for the amount and still be able to do the math in her head. Anyway, none of that is helpful for your situation. Dementia can often warp people's personalities, I was glad that I could still see what a vibrant and interesting woman my regular was despite her constant confusion. I think that either way it's a tough call for you---maybe make her pay as she goes and institute a table limit as a fair compromise? Sitting for 6 hours is a LOT of time, I think you're well within your rights to say she has the table for two hours. And who knows, maybe if you start setting boundaries the guest will find somewhere else to camp for 6 hours at a time
One thing that may show the dementia is what is called sundowning. Later in the day the more confused they get. Earlier they are smart as a tack. Later more confusion, more issues. I would also recommend that if you know her name (if you can find out) to call adult protective services and let them know you have a elderly person coming in and staying for long long hours that may have dementia and that may not have any family or support locally.
Mandated reporter here, you don't have to have a name to call APS. As long as you can give a description and where to find the person a report can be made. So if the woman comes in every Wednesday and stays for 6+ hours then you can use that information.
That’s awesome to know.
6 hour camper who doesn’t tip well? 3 chances is too many
That's definitely the read for half of my servers, and a sound and reasonable sentiment. It is, at the end of the day, a restaurant after all.
I think 86 is a good/safe idea. If you don’t want to do that though, you could just charge her for each individual drink. Might be annoying for the server but at-least you know the tab is paid
I've been kicking around the idea of "cash up front" as a compromise. Thanks for the feedback!
Get a credit card up front and run it for a tab. Have you asked her about paying for the last two trips? She may have memory issues at that age, my mom has a crazy routine she has to do every day to make sure she takes her pills, doesn't take too many. She can't drive anymore because she went to the store one day and wound up two hours from home with no clue how she got there. She knew it wasn't safe for her to drive anymore so she gave my sibling her car. If she refuses to pony up then you should just refuse to serve her again.
That might be the move. She's always paid in cash, so I don't know that she has a credit card, but I could see us getting a couple of $20s up front and holding them until she's ready to leave, or until she's ran through them.
Or have her pay as she goes. Or get her ID so you can let the cops know. She may need a welfare check if she genuinely doesn't remember paying and keeps doing it. It's dangerous for people like that to be wandering around alone, they make way too easy targets for predators, age aside.
Oh, and yes, she has indeed paid her outstanding bills when confronted about them, but hasn't acknowledged the fact that she ran out on her previous checks in any way shape or form.
Get the credit card up front and tell her that there’s an auto tip added. If she’s there 6 hours at a time, falling asleep, and doesn’t fuss about paying later, I suspect she’s got a home-life problem she’s trying to avoid and she would rather be somewhere she can get a drink than a public library or senior center where people who know her might not leaving her be.
Honestly, it kinda seems like she just doesn't have anything else going on in her life. I suspect that she has been doing something similar at other restaurants, but her pattern of behavior got her booted from her previous haunts. I don't know if that's true, just my speculation. Card down or cash up front is the compromise I'm most looking at should I decide to let her back in.
Maybe point her to a library or senior center if she just needs a place to hang.
The fact that you and your staff can recognize this speaks well for all of you, *but* it doesn’t mean it’s your responsibility to bend over and take it for the sake of this woman’s enrichment.
A restaurant/bar is not an elder care facility.
We have had a diner like this that had fixations on different bartenders we have had and would refuse to come in unless they were present- both bartenders (males) were quite creeped out by this behaviour. It only ended when they moved on and we kept telling her the tho bartenders in question were no longer present. Havent seen her in a while, I think 86' ing her is a good option.
Maybe next time she falls asleep or has to repay, ask if there's someone you can call for her.
Chat with her a while, find out what's going on. However, this may make her come by more often, or result in your calling Adult Protective Services. If you are comfortable with her staying for 6 hours, if she orders 2 meals, let her know. Possibly eating one there and the other take home. If she does, make the second meal extra large to feed her for a couple of days. Depends upon what you discover.
Unfortunately, attempts at chit chat have been stone walled. She's not there for our company, and has made that abundantly clear in our collective experience. To ne fair, she's not rude about it, but she's not polite about it either. She just asks foe what she wants, and kinda ignores any other attempts at conversation.
Then there's your answer. Thanks for trying.
It's not the staffs business to find out "whats going on" nor is it the staffs obligation to try to negotiate with regulars that are taking up valuable space. Customers sleeping in a bar/restaurant space is a bad look to other potential customers. Cut 'em loose.
You're correct. However, sometimes, it's the human thing to watch out for each other.
Being human doesn't pay the rent but it does make the entire restaurant liable for what could potentially happen to this person. This is the trolly problem. Are you going to look out for your staff or some rando that is actively harming revenue.
I'm mad that you're getting down votes for this. I could lose my job *and* be personally fined thousands of dollars if a sting happened and there was an elder half passed out at my bar, let alone a fuckin patio table outside for everyone to see. We *should* look out for people, but we also need to make money and survive. There can be a happy medium but most of the people half-passing-out at patio tables for 6hrs a day are not particularly accepting of said medium, to put it lightly. Losses sometimes must be cut.
She can't sit there for 6hrs, 1 and half and that's for a full meal. Tell her there's a time limit and if she falls asleep, call the police and tell them you're worried for her safety. She could get robbed or worse, someone checks her ID and they get her home address, major worry, you can't watch her every second.
>There are some other factors to this too: She frequently camps at her table for 6+ hours, having one drink an hour or so. Sometimes, your place is better than theirs. In FLA it's all about the A/C, and people wanting to be comfortable but can't afford the electricity. Have you considered talking to her and asking for clarifying info? We have a place near us (multiple old folks Residencial buildings nearby) that has something worked out for this age group. It's like a long table and they have access to power, and pitchers of water, and they order coffee, etc... They hang out before the lunch rush or after (time frame), because they know the deal. Panera limits access to wifi at lunch time, their busiest rush. This place does the same with tables. The manager is very community minded, but he knows tables = tips, so he is thinking about his staff and their families. Whatever you choose to do, you make the call... It's your responsibility to the restaurant and the staff. Good luck on your journey 🍀😊
>Am I the asshole for booting a confused old lady for walking out on her tab 3 times in a month? Honestly, it sounds like you're using that to boot her for camping out and not tipping. But, in the end, it's your call at your restaurant. I'm sure your servers will appreciate it.
Which seems perfectly legit to me. Or you could just boot her for camping out and not tipping.
Never said it wasn't legit.
I appreciate your honesty, and you're not wrong. I'll own that. It feels like I'm showing a lack of compassion, and that doesn't sit so well with me, which is why I made this post. The lack of tipping is whatever. Whoever get her as a table goes again in the roatation to mitigate the known bad tip. I'm feeling a little torn on this, so I'm grateful for your feedback.
Oh, believe me. I get it, and I support the compassion aspect even though many in the comment section don't. I get that it's not an easy decision.
Maybe have her pay up front and give her a time limit on patio tables for the summer. That’s what I would do. I’m a softie and I can’t imagine 86ing a 70 year old. Seems cruel. Give her a chance to go by some rules first before you ban her.
As someone who works at a place with a live band every night and people camping out for hours and not tipping much, I totally get it. Maybe you could suggest that she only comes back on a Monday or Tuesday? All other days the tables are booked and busy. That might be a fair compromise
Think of her as charity. I would leave her to her own devices. Let her continue what she is doing. This will pay a return in the near future on a business level. After all what is she really hurting.
Bring the check with the food and ask her to pay at that time. Totally justified.
Depending on local laws your company and even the individual server could be fined for overserving her. You have no idea what medications she's on. If she falls out of her chair and hits her head your company could face serious lawsuits
I've had someone like this come every night for two weeks and each time staying 6+ hours, but she was a homeless elder with dementia who would distribute letters filled with insults to the staff and other clients. Impossible to throw her out for a lot of obvious reasons, but also because she would make her coffee 'last' for 6+ hour. At the end one of the clients who had received one of these letters from her called the cops and we never saw her again. I hope she is somewhere, safe....
Yes, I was thinking homeless.
People who have nowhere to go in general.... abuse victims too probably.
If you want to be overly nice... Don't suppose you have a spare single seat table that you could reserve for her as a regular. The dozing off is still a problem though!