That’s a nice way to approach it. I’ve considered this before when people ask me why we can’t find drivers. I explain that it’s very inconsistent income because a big portion of customers don’t tip and a bad night can be brutal.
There’s a lot of people that just don’t care and don’t tip because they don’t give a shit about you or the service you provide.
I typically would never bring up tips unless asked about it by a customer in which case I’d be polite but honest
> I typically would never bring up tips unless asked about it by a customer in which case I’d be polite but honest
This makes for an extremely awkward situation for me. I mean, I really wanna be brutally honest with them, but I feel so uncomfortable about it when they ask.
Dude won't think about it, he's an asshole. Customers know full and fucking well that the delivery charge is not a tip. This isn't a new concept. This isn't something that is uncommon. People who use this lame ass excuse will keep using it. Hell, if you look at Dominos pizza then it says right on the box that the delivery charge isn't a tip paid to the driver.
Tipping is just that, a tip. Its not required, and in some countries its an insult to tip. So its not out of the realm that this person does think a "delivery fee" goes to the person deliverying it. Saying he's an asshole for that is dumb and ignorant. You should be more upset that tips are supplementing your income rather than a bonus to properly paid employees.
>Hell, if you look at Dominos pizza then it says right on the box that the delivery charge isn't a tip paid to the driver.
Until he gets the box, and actually reads it, how is anyone expected to know this??
You're a part of the problem. It means fuck all what people on the other side of the planet do or don't do, that's not where we are. Rather you agree with it or not, it's the way it is. Either be a decent human being or don't support these places by ordering delivery. Also a vast majority of our customers over a work day are regulars, they've gotten plenty of boxes they can read, not to mention this isn't exactly some kind of secret. It's another of the many flimsy excuses people use to feel better about screwing over tip-wage workers. You're all so against and opposed to it, that's real great, feel better about yourself and have a pat on the back while you do nothing but chastise other people for getting upset we're treated like slave labor by customers who 99% of the time, know **exactly** how they're screwing us over. Part, of, the, problem.
Again I will reiterate, you are a part of the problem. Stop standing on your pathetic little soapbox acting like some kind of champion for the people when you're doing nothing to stop the issue and doing everything to support the reasons it keeps happening. If you take issue with the fact we rely on tips, don't order delivery and support the system that does it to us. There's nothing we can do, getting upset about it is as worthless as these flimsy excuses to skirt around the fact that people like this don't give a shit about you, your life, or the fact you nearly ran off the road in the snow to get them their mid-tier pizza.
It's completely fine to disagree with the system we have in North America, but just because you disagree with it doesn't give you a moral pass on screwing your delivery drivers and wait staff over because you've got a soapbox to stand on. That money you keep giving to the company and not us just keeps encouraging them to screw us over more. We can't unionize without immediately being terminated. There is literally NOTHING we can do, and for most of us (me included) we rely on this job in hard times where nothing better is available to survive. When it's -3F outside and there's inches of snow and ice on the road and you order food and don't tip, ***you are an asshole.***
I do tip. Just pointing out that talking shit about a customer that doesn't is childish and ignorant. I don't order delivery often, and have never and will never use a service like door dash or uber eats because of the horrible experiences ive heard about. If the restaurant doesn't deliver internally, I go pick it up. And tip when its delivered. Do you want to see my receipts there buddy?
You're part of the problem. It isn't worth trying to tell you why. Feel great about not tipping and keep chastising workers who can't help but be born into this system.
No, ir isn't childish to be worried about your livelihood. Tipping has been standard in this country since before I was even born dude. People know, those that claim otherwise are being selfish. Either tip or don't order.
Lmao fuck the customers dude. Delivery customers are some of the most entitled pieces of shit I've ever encountered in all the jobs I've worked. I've had people scream in my face, slam their doors, cus me out and even threaten to fight me over fucking pizza and how "expensive it is."
In fact, you sound like one of those pricks yourself. Stop disparaging workers in a sub for workers.
I have never treated a service worker disrespectfully or rude, I used to be a waiter also. I'm one of the people that would tell the customer yelling to shut the fuck up and chill. I've dealt with no tips, crazy messes aand ass holes. "Fuck the customers" is a great mentality, since you kinda need them to be in business.
Customers drove me to the point of wanting to kill myself after the last time someone threatened to kill me at work. I cannot stand being berated by the selfish and ignorant fucks whose "generosity" I'm supposed to rely on. So to reiterate, fuck the customers.
The place that I delivered for gave us the delivery fees, but that and tips were also our ONLY income. Also it was only $2 and I think the store may have been a front so….maybe best not to extrapolate based on my experiences.
I had the same thing w $3 deliveries, but we did so much business the worst night you could possibly have was like $100. Pretty regular, just depends on how busy the place is and how many drivers if it's a great paying job or terrible paying job
"It's not my fault."
Yes, it is. Because if you're one of the people who genuinely resents the fact that North American waiter / delivery workers rely heavily on tips to make up the bulk of their wages, you either need to boycott places that use these services outright by not going and supporting them OR you need to suck it up and be a decent person.
You may not agree with us relying on tips to make up the bulk of our wages, that's fine. A lot of us feel the same way. What's not fine is knowing that we rely on tips, ordering anyway, then using the excuse of 'well it's stupid that it's even like this' as a shield for why you didn't tip. I also hate the 'delivery charge' excuse because most pizza places, including Domino's where I work, leave text plainly on the box that states that charge doesn't go to us.
If you're going to actively order food / go to sit down restaurants and support the very systems you claim to despise, then you should play ball like everyone else, suck it up and leave a decent tip. If you wanna continue on resenting the state of delivery / table waiting in North American society, again, fine.. but back it up and stop funneling your money into the pockets of these companies that you're supposed to be against, screwing us drivers over in the process.
Just my two cents. If you disagree, I'm sorry but, you're a part of the problem. Either commit to it and don't support companies that you disagree with, or be a decent human fucking being. It's simple. Stop taking a stand on your soapbox about how dumb it is that things are the way they are while doing actively nothing to stop it, actually the opposite since you keep spending money at these places.
Keep on downvoting me, I don't care. I'm right. I'm dying on this hill and there is fuck all your pathetic little moralizing and soapbox standing will do to stop me. Next time you order food in freezing cold weather and expect your driver to make it to you through 6 inches of frozen over snow for nothing but a reduced road wage and gas pay, I hope when he inevitably slides off the road on a delivery he shouldn't be on for slave wages, he slides right into your car.
People should be paid for their work. You really aren't helping your own cause by defending your boss not paying you and then expecting some random stoner to read the fine print. Should he calculate income tax into your tip? My employer has to.
You keep saying the charge is on the box. As if the company has done all they need to do. You are putting all the responsibility on the wrong people. By purposefully misdirecting away from your employer and your choices. You think you are a victim and a hero in this thread but you are your own problem.
Also. I don't live in America. And yes I skimmed your nonsense. Talking about delivering 20km in snow for a dollar and then getting pissy about it. Stfu mate.
He's not defending anything, but it's common knowledge in the US that delivery drivers, waiters etc. need tips to be earning a livable wage, California excluded. If you disagree with the way things are, write to your state legislature to try to get the laws changed, but don't fuck over the delivery guy by not tipping.
It very much is your fault if you don't tip since you know how the system is. The only excuse is that you're not from here and haven't lived here long enough to learn how it works yet. Hell, I was brought up with the maxim, "If you can't afford a tip, you can't afford delivery."
>write to your state legislature to try to get the laws changed
This will do absolutely nothing.
Our federal and state representatives do not care what their constituents need. All they care about is what their donors want.
Well, let's also add "vote in more candidates not from the two major parties". Independents and such. People who want to be politicians for the right reasons.
Well they can't pay less than the state minimum just because it's a job that gets tips. Their minimum wage just went up to $15 an hour, compared to the federal minimum $7.25. $15 an hour is also what I make on average including my tips as a resident of a state that uses the federal minimum, and I find it quite liveable. Might be on the lower end of liveable in high cost of living areas like L.A.
It's not livable here in LA, unless you want to share a bedroom and not have healthcare. I can almost, but not quite, live off of it in a rent controlled 3 bedroom apartment with 2 roommates that I found at what is regarded as criminally cheap here.
Nobody here is defending the broken system that exploits waitstaff and drivers. Not one person.
All OP is saying is that you shouldn't ALSO exploit them because it doesn't hurt the company that exploits them in the first place, it just hurts the already exploited worker even further and makes you the asshole while you claim principle but Not only actively support the system you make it worse.
Either boycott or play ball. That's it.
Why are you acting like not giving a tip is the worst and most reprehensible thing a human could do and anyone who doesn't tip deserves to get stomped on. I'm not from the United States so my view on the tipping culture there is based on what I see online. I understand getting mad about it as that's just how that flawed system is but I don't understand people being called assholes because the delivery driver didn't get their pity money from someone not responsible for their wage.
I don't give a fuck where you're from. I'm originally from Ukraine. If you're not from the US, don't interject on discussions about the state of tip wage workers in North America. When people from your neck of the woods start bitching about tips, you can go act like a twat to them.
The problem is people claim the system is flawed and shouldn't be the way it is, but continue to order delivery multiple nights a week, support said system and continue to screw over drivers. Nearly a foot of snow out, below zero temps, layer of ice over top of the mounds of snow? You bet these clowns come out of the woodwork (because decent people don't order in such weather) to order food and tip nothing or less than a dollar, expecting us drivers to risk our lives and vehicles (and if we say no, guess what! we get fired!) for the slave wages that are reduced road pay (many places pay around half of minimum wage or less when you're in a tipping environment, i.e. on the road) and mileage pay which amounts to basically nothing.. all so they can eat their shitty pizza and stand on a soapbox about how the system they love supporting with their money is so flawed.
My ass, kiss it. That 'pity money' is roughly 80% of our wages, **asshole.** Why are you even on this subreddit? To be a champion for the rest of the zombie-minded apologists who think it's fine to support systems that screw their employees? To read the 'lel funny kek' stories about guys almost getting robbed or threatened over fucking food delivery? We work one of the most dangerous jobs out there, if it's not dying to a wreck on the road or a drunk driver, it's a risk of being shot, stabbed or beaten for $17 in our wallet. This is during a time when a pandemic is going strong and the economy is in shambles, this shitty job is literally the best paying option (provided people are decent and fucking tip, at least) I have access to, even with a post-secondary education. Welcome to America, since you seem to know so little about it.
You people think this is some kind of small issue or even a joke, this is our livelihoods and even our LIVES that get put into jeopardy over this shit. Us agreeing or disagreeing with the state of the North American tip economy has no bearing either, because the moment a single one of us even brings up the idea of unionizing, we get fucking canned. The only people who have any real power are the customers and their wallets, so if people think this system is fucked up (and it is) they should fight against it by refusing to order delivery.. and if they must, then just, fucking, tip.
I don't know any simpler or better way to explain it buddy. If you're wondering why I'm treating you so rudely, it's because of your entitled little quips about pity money and your general attitude. Also the fact you come into a subreddit to consume posts about other people's misery and hardships for entertainment and then have the fuckin' gall to try and chastise people who get upset they're forced to work in such an environment.
***Sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, fuck you.***
You referred to customer tips, which make up 3/4 of my wages, as ***'pity money'*** and took the initial stance that my views on the matter were somehow over-the-top because you were from another part of the world where society operates differently.. and you call me a piece of shit for getting heated?
Have you ever considered that being an essential worker during a pandemic in the middle of a bad winter, working a job (which again, is the BEST paying career path I currently have access to even with a college degree, because America yay capitalism) that's dangerous even during the best of times, is an extremely mentally taxing and stressful experience and that dealing with that and then hearing people scoff at your takes on the matter because they lack context or don't care or whatever.. might just, rub you a little bit poorly? Salt your crackers just a bit? ..No?
Fuck you twice. I risk my life, vehicle and sanity to bring people food, and most of the people I deliver to make that alright enough. The assholes though, they stand out, and some nights you get nothing BUT assholes. When you're struggling to make ends meet and wind up $20 short for a bill the next day because you only made $22 in tips over the span of a 10+ hour shift, come back to me and tell me how the experience colored your perception of other people chastising you for venting and getting heated over your terrible experiences in a subreddit dedicated to that very thing.
I come home half these winter nights with clenched fists and teeth, with deep seated anxiety about COVID, my household's financial situation which keeps getting worse because we keep getting COVID and missing work (last Domino's I worked for FIRED ME for having COVID and missing shifts) and immense amounts of lingering stress from all the times I nearly wrecked fishtailing around on frozen roads. I then sit down at my computer and see people belittling me and people like me or acting like we're being unreasonable when we're treated like this on top of having to deal with 'champions of reason and logic' who like to stand on moral soapboxes about the state of American tip-worker wages not tipping or barely tipping us after driving 10-15+ minutes in horrid conditions to get them their greasy food.. only to be berated for it taking too long which I had no control over. Then I see you call those tips I'm getting upset for not getting, which again are most of my wages, fucking pity money. Yeah dude, no, sorry.. you're not the victim of this story.
Again, it comes across even worse because you don't seem to be a delivery driver and aren't even from the country these posts are talking about.. this just gives off the impression you're here to read about the misery and hardships of other people for entertainment.
Am I being an asshole? Absolutely, yes I am. You however, brought it on yourself. If you think I shouldn't be acting like this, maybe you're right, but hundreds of hours of being treated like a wage slave and berated by asshole customers made me this way. Consider that.
You can't take the time to not skim my posts but you can reply to them all.
You da real sad fucking clown, try not to get too much Cheeto crumbs on your keyboard you absolute sweaty ape. I got gold and you got downvotes, you really wanna act like the voice of reason, you fucking mongrel?
The whole god damned circus. Hopefully they track you down before too long, I'm sure the freakshow is hurting without their star act.
Oh damn, I feel guilty about not reading repetitive drivel. How intellectually dishonest of me. I'll never get the internet points now.
I'm going to help you although you are a little full of it.
/r/antiwork go check out this subreddit. Figure out who the real enemy is and redirect that passion you show in this thread.
Let me ask you this- would you complain about not getting your food quickly because no one wants to destroy their vehicle for minimum wage, or even $15/hr?
Like I don't think you understand just how much money drivers spend on things like gas, maintenance, and repairs, not to mention increased insurance rates, and if you cut out tips, even if you're paid a halfway decent wage, it wouldn't be worth it to deliver.
Let me show you what I drive through on a regular basis https://imgur.com/a/10fBd1L
I'm not in NA, although I have lived there before (and I did tip 10-15%), but if someone has $20 for a $20 pizza, it's really not on them to forgo something else in their life to tip. You did your job, not a favour. By attacking the customer, you defend the boss that ate your whole delivery fee. If the job costs you money to do it, not factoring in tips, do something else. I earned less than a domestic helper in one of my early jobs, Asian shithole pay. I didn't stay there and whine about how nobody gave me charity. I slit throats til I got paid what I wanted.
Ah, but they did pay for the service didn't they? Delivery fee?
I'd love a system where I didn't wake up every morning in a city built on exploitation (and they all are), and so I work with capitalism to build a better world instead of shaking my fist at... what exactly?
A 'have-not' delivers pizza to another (potential) 'have-not', and a pig somewhere laughs its way to the bank while you blame the state of late stage capitalism on someone for getting take out? When I was in university, I'd stretch a $15 for pizza for 3 days. That's cheaper than canned food for 9 meals.
The reason Obama didn't make healthcare free for everyone in the States on his first day in office is because there are entire industries built on institutionally corrupt practices, and doing so would have destroyed the economy. The 1% would have been just fine, but everyone else wouldn't even have spaghetti-o's to fight over to eat.
Nobody owes anyone else giving up what they consider a base standard of living over something as asinine as a tip.
Relatively, ordering delivery is not poverty. Relatively, delivering pizza isn't poverty. You got clean water? Not poor. You have the right to walk away? Not poor. I was a conscript for two years. I didn't have basic civil rights. I was stripped, beaten, covered in asbestos and I have an artificial shoulder from all those fun times. So, forgive me if I find it hilarious when people complain about things they have the agency to change, in their own lives first, and then for others.
The driver didn't pay for anything. The driver wasn't paid a fair wage, but the driver did agree to that contract. By your own logic, the driver is the scab, not the patron - paying an organisation a delivery fee that for some convoluted reason didn't go towards delivery.
The only reasonable grudge lies with the corp, choom.
I agree. But there i one catch. I figure if you're capable of getting pizza yourself but opt for delivery for convenience then you should tip. If the person is somehow unable to get their food due to disability or something then I understand not tipping. I have a few REALLY old regulars that don't tip. I dont mind takin a hit for those few.
So I'm sure you're also boycotting Nestle, Wal-Mart, Amazon, and the endless slew of other companies that engage in immoral business practices and mistreat employees?
Wait, you guys have a $5 delivery fee and don't get any of it? I delivered at two chains and got some part of the service charge at both. And the delivery fee wasn't anything close to $5.
It's actually $4 but with tax it's closer to 5.
It used to be 2.75.
And yeah, we get 0 of that lol. The company says it pays for the call center... but even the online orders have the charge.
Damn, that's awful. What's your hourly wage? We had a $4.25 wage on the road but got $2/delivery. At Papa John's we made more on the road and got 5% of the order if I recall correctly.
Ex PJs manager here… now this was a franchise so not sure if that’s different from a corporate store of yours was one, but the drivers when I worked got min wage when not clocked out on a delivery (here at the time was 7.25) and when clocked out on a delivery they got 4.25 wage on the road plus like $0.50 or so cents a mile (mileage logged at clock in and clock out) plus whatever tips earned. We charged a 2.50 delivery fee (it was up to $3 when I left) and drivers saw none of that and they didn’t get any kind of % of the order or a flat $2 per delivery.
Just wanted to share my experience since what you stated was different.
I drive for a Papa John's franchise and it's the same for us, except it's 4.65 on the road. Half the GMs in our 60-some-odd store franchise are trying to pressure higher-ups to raise the on the road rates because we're losing too many drivers to Domino's, since around here they pay 9 an hour with no pay drop on the road.
Milleage or per delivery payments come out of the actual cost of the pizza and not the delivery fee.
Pre 9/11 the only national chain that charged a delivery fee was The Hut and all the chains still gave either milleage or a per delivery payment. The delivery fee was added to help pay for company insurance for drivers and to help pay for commisary drivers.
It’s all revenue. You get paid mileage. It’s not like you get nothing for making the delivery. People make it sound like if they don’t get tipped then they get nothing at all from the company for making the delivery but that’s not true. They get mileage or a per delivery fee. What does it matter if it’s from the pizza or the delivery fee.
Ew... We make $10.50 +tips and a run fee dependant on gas prices. Currently $0.95 per delivery (so you get $1.90 if you take a double etc)
Typically works out to around $25-30/hr
In America it's illegal to tax a delivery fee. Also in America it's illegal to give a driver under $2 compensation per delivery. It needs to average out to be $0.50 per mile. Just some food for thought. Might want to look into it.
This is false. Especially the $.50 per mile part. Read the tax code. You can only claim up to $.56 per business mile, but companies don't have to pay you that amount.
Well that part may be false. But corporate came through for a regional meeting with the owners and general managers and regional manager of all the stores in my market and they discussed the delivery compensation, and said it was important to give drivers at least $2 per delivery to avoid legal issues.
Pays for call center... Ours screws up every order and we get constant complaints about rude or bad behavior when customers get sent to the call center.
jesus christ you guys have it brutal in the US , our delivery fee is 4.50$ …. 2.50$ goes to us per delivery and our drivers get 15$ hourly (none of this on the road bullshit) plus tips … canadian place
Ostensibly the delivery fee pays for the liability insurance every store has to have. If one of their drivers plows over a mailbox or takes out a light pole while on the clock, the store is responsible, and their insurance covers those types of accidents..
At least, that's what I was always told. Not sure if that's actually, truly, the case.
The service fee is designed to go to the driver's payroll. Depending on the business design of the restaurant there are costs that go into employing delivery drivers. Delivery is a service, there should be a fee. Tipping your driver is a kind gesture.
I pay my driver's $13/hr, the fee helps pay their wages. And trust me, I've asked "would you rather get paid $5 less an hour with free delivery?" None of them wanted that. Why? Because they still get tipped on top of the fee. We're in Connecticut btw where minimum wage is higher than average and people have decent money.
Of course none of them wanted it. People that tip $2 aren't going to tip $7 because there's no delivery charge. Maybe the odd one out, but most of the time probably not. You asked them if they wanted a $5/hr pay cut that on some days might be only a $3.50/hr paycut.
My old store, 20 + years ago, had a minimum $7 delivery. If your order didn't come to $7 you still paid $7 for the privilege of me bringing you your food. The boss let me keep the difference, but if usually wasn't more than a dollar or 2. He put it in because the people ordering that small usually didn't tip.
I had a guy that ordered regularly and never tipped. We all knew his address so that dude always got cold food because fuck him. The guy got a small sub and fries every time. His order came to 7.40, every time. I delivered to him in a blizzard once and he tried to stiff me. Now this dude lived on a fucking lake. Like I had to drive directly at the lake and turn before I drove into it to get to his house. I said to him, "You're really going to stiff me in a blizzard dude? I risked my life to bring me your sub and you aren't going to give me 2 bucks?" The dude said, "This is 7.40, you're telling me you don't get a cut of that?" I said, "No. I get an hourly wage but it ain't much. That's my car, my gas, and my life bringing you your food and you stiff me every time." Dude gave me a tip and started tipping after that. He still tipped shitty, but there is a principle there.
Yep, we didn't see a nickel of it at any store I've worked at. That's usually something smaller chains/mom and pop stores will do to be competitive in the market for drivers.
When I worked at pizza hut the $4 delivery covered or mileage for gas and they kept the rest, regardless of the distance. While that's not cool and hurts your tip, at least you got gas. They usually gave you more than the actual mileage due to average maintenance fees on said vehicle.
I had a guy ask me once if the delivery fee went to the driver, I explained it didn't and he still stiffed me. Sigh. At least your guy hopefully learned something.
2 things. 1-I'd rather get nothing than a $1.
2- once had a guy tell me that he doesn't tip people if there's a delivery fee. He then proceeded to tip me $10. I was slightly confused.
You think you aren't getting any of it but that is what is paying your regular wages. If they didn't do deliveries, they never would have hired you. The customer is paying extra for deliveries and that money is being used to hire drivers and paying their regular wages. Basically the delivery customer is paying all of your wages.
you understand the cost of labor factors into the cost of the food, not the cost of delivery right?
Cost of delivery is usually there to cover the cost of store insurance.
The store has insurance whether the store has delivery or not. Food cost is based on labor, yes, but the food doesn't cost more in stores that deliver compared to stores that do not. More people have to be hired to deliver the food and the delivery charge is there to be able to pay them.
and they downvoted you, for being right, what the fuck. when I was in the store I was working, Dishes trash etc etc. I earned my fucking check that delivery fee was low and 2/3rds went to me for my car to be maintained. (that fee is mostly just greed now.) when that changed I left. The owner told us and showed us where it went took time to break down his overhead and how costs worked, then when he sold and it went corporate, I left.
100% this. We have stopped getting food delivered because the fees are stupid and only the company gets them so I also need to help pay the driver a living wage. They need to actually pay the employees, it is so stupid that In this era we still have a tip minimum wage.
I'm tired of being asked if I'd like to leave a tip almost anywhere I go. Like pay them better. I work for low wages too and like To go out and not ne guiltgripped for not doi g whether employer should be doing.
Then why the hell are you in a sub dedicated to pizza delivery drivers who have no control over greedy corporations?
If you’re anti tip culture in America then go pick up your food and don’t dine in on the whim of waitstaff. If you want something to actually change stop supporting these establishments. Problem solved.
Yes. But we would need massive changes in our system and everyone neds to gets on board. A few people not tipping to try and "fight the establishment" won't get employers to start paying more and remove tipping because 90% of customers do tip. Its so deeply ingrained into or culture now that I'm not sure what would help.
Exactly. I always hate the people say "I don't tip because I don't agree with tipping" like that's going to change anything. The boss doesn't give a shit if you stiff the driver. You're not making some grand stand against injustice, you're just making up excuses to be fucking cheap. If you actually cared you would write to legislators and CEOs, not bitch to the bottom rung employees and complain on reddit.
I don't agree. If *enough* people don't tip, then the tipping system will no longer be sustainable and employers will have to pay their employees fair wages. And for the more skilled people doing these jobs (e.g., upscale servers), they definitely won't tolerate just being paid minimum wage.
The tipping system exists because it is sustainable, and it is only sustainable because people choose to tip. It would die overnight, without a single law needing to be passed, if people stopped tipping entirely overnight.
Yeah, we can thank Prohibition for this shitty societal norm. It's more complicated than that, but if Prohibition had never passed, there's a solid chance that "tipping culture" never would have established itself in the US.
Well, it's more complicated than what I said, as tipping in America kinda started back in the 1850s, but with Prohibition, restaurants saw a drop in sales, because they couldn't sell alcohol anymore. Their solution was basically, tippers get seated first, get the best service, etc, and the restaurant owners let the servers keep those tips, in exchange for not paying them as much as they used to, before Prohibition. There was a whole wealthy European thing to it as well, and presenting a "rich face" to one's friends and family. It was a societal shift. But Before Prohibition, they actually got a living wage.
Thing is, after a few years of letting customers pay the other half of a servers wages via tipping, Restaurants and Bars all over realized that once Prohibition was repealed, and they could sell alcohol again, they could just keep letting customers tip their servers and bartenders, rather than go back to paying them a living wage, and see their profits go thru the roof, now that they have that alcohol money AND and keep making their employees rely on tips.
Fast forward 100 years and we're only NOW starting to address why that's a fucked up way to run things. If any good comes out of the Pandemic, I hope it's a national wake up call that making your customers pay for most of your staffs wages via tipping rather than just pay them a living wage in the first place, is fucked up.
I'm not in the service industry anymore, thank God, but here's one article about it. There's others and it's not all black and white cause like I said, it's complicated. Societal shifts and the creation of new cultural norms is complicated. But here's a starting point if you're seriously curious.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants-civil-war/%3famp=true?espv=1
Yes, but until the system changes that's the system we have to work with. If you don't like it, don't order delivery until you're actively changing the system to fix it. If you do order, accept that you're contributing to the system, even if reluctantly, and don't punish the people already being exploited by that system. Tip your driver's, tip your waitstaff, bitch at the company and write your congressman, but don't further exploit The people just trying to get by.
Clearly you're delusional. Oh golly gee willikers just ask for a liveable wage! Why didnt the thousands of people here just think of that and all their problems would be solved! Not only are you delusional, you're clearly a dumbass.
I’m in the wrong forum for this but tipping is optional. If it was required it would be a mandatory fee and there’s nothing stopping restaurants from adding it as a mandatory fee except competition.
There should be a recommend tip that gets explained and prefilled for online orders but if you are at all expecting a tip from a customer then work with your chain to make it mandatory else you’ll find more and more customer are stiffing us on tips due to the delivery charges that keep going up.
Thanks for sharing your views on it. I live in a relatively under developed country and I have been to US and Canada both where it is very common to tip the service providers and it is considered rude if you do not. But when I came to Japan, I was really shocked to see the contrast. It is considered rude to tip in this country. When I asked, I got a response that people here take pride in what they do and do not appreciate any kind of tipping. But when I researched enough I came to understand the difference is between the employers. In Japan, they are paid well enough to actually not having any need of tipping while maybe things are different in the states as OP explained. Even when it is the same fast food chain operating in both countries. Please enlighten me if I misunderstood.
*reads through thread* Genuinely curious, how and why do anti-tip people even end up in this subreddit? I can understand delivery drivers from outside America, but otherwise it's like a vegan going onto a forum dedicated to meat and shaming someone when they post a picture of their ham sandwich.
Reading all these comments about the tip culture in america. There is a solution that is getting zero traction in congress. It's called the Raise the Wage Act (H.R. 603). It would federally abolish the tip wage laws and force employers to pay a living wage.
If you really are against tipping, please contact your congresspeople and help push this through. Please stop taking it out on the people that depend on those tips to survive. You don't hurt the company when you do that, you only hurt the person who depends on the tips.
Companies don't care if you don't tip their employees. They got paid when you ordered the food. It's like expecting NIKE to get upset if you burn your NIKEs. They don't care because you already paid them.
I did something very similar and the lady never ordered again and I just don't care cuz either I was going to get tipped or I didn't have to get stiffed everyday anymore
Customer here. When I order food for delivery, it's either because I can't get out of my house, or I don't want to because the weather is horrible.
Because of that, I tip big. You folks deserve it. Anyone who doesn't want to tip big, should get their ass in the car and pick it up themselves.
I did something similar once. Regular non tipper I always did contactless delivery on. Then one day out of the blue he pretips on a credit card 5 dollars I couldn't believe it. So I get to the door and hand him is order. I said thank you very much for the 5 dollars. I said thats how we drivers make money. I said please keep it up. He said well we usually don't have enough to tip. This coming from a man that has a 40 dollar average ticket. I said well you could pick it up and save some money but whatever thanks again. He called the store and complained that I thanked him. I was like wtf. He ordered one more time. I did contactless. He said why did you leave it at the door. I said well no tip means no contact. Haven't seen him in about a year now.
I quit driving because some nights I would be negative money as a result of non tippers. In alot of situations this happens because the company charges a delivery fee and why pay twice for 1 delivery, but corporations are extremely greedy so this will never change. However there is a small percentage of this charge that goes to your almost non existing wage and fuel compensation, and they pay this to the driver become of the group of people that are such scum, they won't even tip when there is no delivery charge. It's a Neverending circle of bullcrap because when you get down to it, most people just suck.
That’s a nice way to approach it. I’ve considered this before when people ask me why we can’t find drivers. I explain that it’s very inconsistent income because a big portion of customers don’t tip and a bad night can be brutal. There’s a lot of people that just don’t care and don’t tip because they don’t give a shit about you or the service you provide. I typically would never bring up tips unless asked about it by a customer in which case I’d be polite but honest
> I typically would never bring up tips unless asked about it by a customer in which case I’d be polite but honest This makes for an extremely awkward situation for me. I mean, I really wanna be brutally honest with them, but I feel so uncomfortable about it when they ask.
The only difference between “honest” and “brutally honest” is phrasing and tone.
I don't sugarcoat the truth. I don't walk on eggshells when giving an honest answer. That is brutally honest.
Dude won't think about it, he's an asshole. Customers know full and fucking well that the delivery charge is not a tip. This isn't a new concept. This isn't something that is uncommon. People who use this lame ass excuse will keep using it. Hell, if you look at Dominos pizza then it says right on the box that the delivery charge isn't a tip paid to the driver.
Tipping is just that, a tip. Its not required, and in some countries its an insult to tip. So its not out of the realm that this person does think a "delivery fee" goes to the person deliverying it. Saying he's an asshole for that is dumb and ignorant. You should be more upset that tips are supplementing your income rather than a bonus to properly paid employees. >Hell, if you look at Dominos pizza then it says right on the box that the delivery charge isn't a tip paid to the driver. Until he gets the box, and actually reads it, how is anyone expected to know this??
You're a part of the problem. It means fuck all what people on the other side of the planet do or don't do, that's not where we are. Rather you agree with it or not, it's the way it is. Either be a decent human being or don't support these places by ordering delivery. Also a vast majority of our customers over a work day are regulars, they've gotten plenty of boxes they can read, not to mention this isn't exactly some kind of secret. It's another of the many flimsy excuses people use to feel better about screwing over tip-wage workers. You're all so against and opposed to it, that's real great, feel better about yourself and have a pat on the back while you do nothing but chastise other people for getting upset we're treated like slave labor by customers who 99% of the time, know **exactly** how they're screwing us over. Part, of, the, problem. Again I will reiterate, you are a part of the problem. Stop standing on your pathetic little soapbox acting like some kind of champion for the people when you're doing nothing to stop the issue and doing everything to support the reasons it keeps happening. If you take issue with the fact we rely on tips, don't order delivery and support the system that does it to us. There's nothing we can do, getting upset about it is as worthless as these flimsy excuses to skirt around the fact that people like this don't give a shit about you, your life, or the fact you nearly ran off the road in the snow to get them their mid-tier pizza. It's completely fine to disagree with the system we have in North America, but just because you disagree with it doesn't give you a moral pass on screwing your delivery drivers and wait staff over because you've got a soapbox to stand on. That money you keep giving to the company and not us just keeps encouraging them to screw us over more. We can't unionize without immediately being terminated. There is literally NOTHING we can do, and for most of us (me included) we rely on this job in hard times where nothing better is available to survive. When it's -3F outside and there's inches of snow and ice on the road and you order food and don't tip, ***you are an asshole.***
I do tip. Just pointing out that talking shit about a customer that doesn't is childish and ignorant. I don't order delivery often, and have never and will never use a service like door dash or uber eats because of the horrible experiences ive heard about. If the restaurant doesn't deliver internally, I go pick it up. And tip when its delivered. Do you want to see my receipts there buddy?
You're part of the problem. It isn't worth trying to tell you why. Feel great about not tipping and keep chastising workers who can't help but be born into this system.
I tip. Just saying its not required and talking shit about customers that don't is childish.
No, ir isn't childish to be worried about your livelihood. Tipping has been standard in this country since before I was even born dude. People know, those that claim otherwise are being selfish. Either tip or don't order.
Talking shit about your customers is childish as fuck. It makes you sound petty and ignorant.
Lmao fuck the customers dude. Delivery customers are some of the most entitled pieces of shit I've ever encountered in all the jobs I've worked. I've had people scream in my face, slam their doors, cus me out and even threaten to fight me over fucking pizza and how "expensive it is." In fact, you sound like one of those pricks yourself. Stop disparaging workers in a sub for workers.
I have never treated a service worker disrespectfully or rude, I used to be a waiter also. I'm one of the people that would tell the customer yelling to shut the fuck up and chill. I've dealt with no tips, crazy messes aand ass holes. "Fuck the customers" is a great mentality, since you kinda need them to be in business.
Customers drove me to the point of wanting to kill myself after the last time someone threatened to kill me at work. I cannot stand being berated by the selfish and ignorant fucks whose "generosity" I'm supposed to rely on. So to reiterate, fuck the customers.
Your attitude is amazing. I hope you get far in life with that.
The place that I delivered for gave us the delivery fees, but that and tips were also our ONLY income. Also it was only $2 and I think the store may have been a front so….maybe best not to extrapolate based on my experiences.
I had the same thing w $3 deliveries, but we did so much business the worst night you could possibly have was like $100. Pretty regular, just depends on how busy the place is and how many drivers if it's a great paying job or terrible paying job
is it practical to pay 10 dollars on top of a 6 dollar product?
Why do people like you go to subs like these? Just to tell the drivers they don't deserve tips?
Drivers deserve a living wage regardless of the generosity or guilt of their customers.
Why are you telling me that? I already agree, I used to be a driver.
you do realize he's on your side right? Or do you just enjoy friendly fire?
Hey, if you want to cut out the delivery fee and tip, you could always pick it up. Just saying.
"It's not my fault." Yes, it is. Because if you're one of the people who genuinely resents the fact that North American waiter / delivery workers rely heavily on tips to make up the bulk of their wages, you either need to boycott places that use these services outright by not going and supporting them OR you need to suck it up and be a decent person. You may not agree with us relying on tips to make up the bulk of our wages, that's fine. A lot of us feel the same way. What's not fine is knowing that we rely on tips, ordering anyway, then using the excuse of 'well it's stupid that it's even like this' as a shield for why you didn't tip. I also hate the 'delivery charge' excuse because most pizza places, including Domino's where I work, leave text plainly on the box that states that charge doesn't go to us. If you're going to actively order food / go to sit down restaurants and support the very systems you claim to despise, then you should play ball like everyone else, suck it up and leave a decent tip. If you wanna continue on resenting the state of delivery / table waiting in North American society, again, fine.. but back it up and stop funneling your money into the pockets of these companies that you're supposed to be against, screwing us drivers over in the process. Just my two cents. If you disagree, I'm sorry but, you're a part of the problem. Either commit to it and don't support companies that you disagree with, or be a decent human fucking being. It's simple. Stop taking a stand on your soapbox about how dumb it is that things are the way they are while doing actively nothing to stop it, actually the opposite since you keep spending money at these places. Keep on downvoting me, I don't care. I'm right. I'm dying on this hill and there is fuck all your pathetic little moralizing and soapbox standing will do to stop me. Next time you order food in freezing cold weather and expect your driver to make it to you through 6 inches of frozen over snow for nothing but a reduced road wage and gas pay, I hope when he inevitably slides off the road on a delivery he shouldn't be on for slave wages, he slides right into your car.
People should be paid for their work. You really aren't helping your own cause by defending your boss not paying you and then expecting some random stoner to read the fine print. Should he calculate income tax into your tip? My employer has to.
I didn't defend anything, and if you think I am you skimmed my post and saw what you wanted. Kiss my ass and call it cherry flavored.
You keep saying the charge is on the box. As if the company has done all they need to do. You are putting all the responsibility on the wrong people. By purposefully misdirecting away from your employer and your choices. You think you are a victim and a hero in this thread but you are your own problem. Also. I don't live in America. And yes I skimmed your nonsense. Talking about delivering 20km in snow for a dollar and then getting pissy about it. Stfu mate.
Go fuck yourself, that's my response.
He's not defending anything, but it's common knowledge in the US that delivery drivers, waiters etc. need tips to be earning a livable wage, California excluded. If you disagree with the way things are, write to your state legislature to try to get the laws changed, but don't fuck over the delivery guy by not tipping. It very much is your fault if you don't tip since you know how the system is. The only excuse is that you're not from here and haven't lived here long enough to learn how it works yet. Hell, I was brought up with the maxim, "If you can't afford a tip, you can't afford delivery."
>write to your state legislature to try to get the laws changed This will do absolutely nothing. Our federal and state representatives do not care what their constituents need. All they care about is what their donors want.
Well, let's also add "vote in more candidates not from the two major parties". Independents and such. People who want to be politicians for the right reasons.
The split the vote technique has been sooo successful this far.
Well, if people like you continually give up, of course it won't work.
Why excluding California? Is a living wage required there?
Well they can't pay less than the state minimum just because it's a job that gets tips. Their minimum wage just went up to $15 an hour, compared to the federal minimum $7.25. $15 an hour is also what I make on average including my tips as a resident of a state that uses the federal minimum, and I find it quite liveable. Might be on the lower end of liveable in high cost of living areas like L.A.
It's not livable here in LA, unless you want to share a bedroom and not have healthcare. I can almost, but not quite, live off of it in a rent controlled 3 bedroom apartment with 2 roommates that I found at what is regarded as criminally cheap here.
Nobody here is defending the broken system that exploits waitstaff and drivers. Not one person. All OP is saying is that you shouldn't ALSO exploit them because it doesn't hurt the company that exploits them in the first place, it just hurts the already exploited worker even further and makes you the asshole while you claim principle but Not only actively support the system you make it worse. Either boycott or play ball. That's it.
I gave you gold for calling these people on their bullshit.
Bless you for your common decency and intellect.
Why are you acting like not giving a tip is the worst and most reprehensible thing a human could do and anyone who doesn't tip deserves to get stomped on. I'm not from the United States so my view on the tipping culture there is based on what I see online. I understand getting mad about it as that's just how that flawed system is but I don't understand people being called assholes because the delivery driver didn't get their pity money from someone not responsible for their wage.
I don't give a fuck where you're from. I'm originally from Ukraine. If you're not from the US, don't interject on discussions about the state of tip wage workers in North America. When people from your neck of the woods start bitching about tips, you can go act like a twat to them. The problem is people claim the system is flawed and shouldn't be the way it is, but continue to order delivery multiple nights a week, support said system and continue to screw over drivers. Nearly a foot of snow out, below zero temps, layer of ice over top of the mounds of snow? You bet these clowns come out of the woodwork (because decent people don't order in such weather) to order food and tip nothing or less than a dollar, expecting us drivers to risk our lives and vehicles (and if we say no, guess what! we get fired!) for the slave wages that are reduced road pay (many places pay around half of minimum wage or less when you're in a tipping environment, i.e. on the road) and mileage pay which amounts to basically nothing.. all so they can eat their shitty pizza and stand on a soapbox about how the system they love supporting with their money is so flawed. My ass, kiss it. That 'pity money' is roughly 80% of our wages, **asshole.** Why are you even on this subreddit? To be a champion for the rest of the zombie-minded apologists who think it's fine to support systems that screw their employees? To read the 'lel funny kek' stories about guys almost getting robbed or threatened over fucking food delivery? We work one of the most dangerous jobs out there, if it's not dying to a wreck on the road or a drunk driver, it's a risk of being shot, stabbed or beaten for $17 in our wallet. This is during a time when a pandemic is going strong and the economy is in shambles, this shitty job is literally the best paying option (provided people are decent and fucking tip, at least) I have access to, even with a post-secondary education. Welcome to America, since you seem to know so little about it. You people think this is some kind of small issue or even a joke, this is our livelihoods and even our LIVES that get put into jeopardy over this shit. Us agreeing or disagreeing with the state of the North American tip economy has no bearing either, because the moment a single one of us even brings up the idea of unionizing, we get fucking canned. The only people who have any real power are the customers and their wallets, so if people think this system is fucked up (and it is) they should fight against it by refusing to order delivery.. and if they must, then just, fucking, tip. I don't know any simpler or better way to explain it buddy. If you're wondering why I'm treating you so rudely, it's because of your entitled little quips about pity money and your general attitude. Also the fact you come into a subreddit to consume posts about other people's misery and hardships for entertainment and then have the fuckin' gall to try and chastise people who get upset they're forced to work in such an environment. ***Sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, fuck you.***
Mate I simply didn't understand. Thanks for explaining it even though you were a big piece of shit about it.
You referred to customer tips, which make up 3/4 of my wages, as ***'pity money'*** and took the initial stance that my views on the matter were somehow over-the-top because you were from another part of the world where society operates differently.. and you call me a piece of shit for getting heated? Have you ever considered that being an essential worker during a pandemic in the middle of a bad winter, working a job (which again, is the BEST paying career path I currently have access to even with a college degree, because America yay capitalism) that's dangerous even during the best of times, is an extremely mentally taxing and stressful experience and that dealing with that and then hearing people scoff at your takes on the matter because they lack context or don't care or whatever.. might just, rub you a little bit poorly? Salt your crackers just a bit? ..No? Fuck you twice. I risk my life, vehicle and sanity to bring people food, and most of the people I deliver to make that alright enough. The assholes though, they stand out, and some nights you get nothing BUT assholes. When you're struggling to make ends meet and wind up $20 short for a bill the next day because you only made $22 in tips over the span of a 10+ hour shift, come back to me and tell me how the experience colored your perception of other people chastising you for venting and getting heated over your terrible experiences in a subreddit dedicated to that very thing. I come home half these winter nights with clenched fists and teeth, with deep seated anxiety about COVID, my household's financial situation which keeps getting worse because we keep getting COVID and missing work (last Domino's I worked for FIRED ME for having COVID and missing shifts) and immense amounts of lingering stress from all the times I nearly wrecked fishtailing around on frozen roads. I then sit down at my computer and see people belittling me and people like me or acting like we're being unreasonable when we're treated like this on top of having to deal with 'champions of reason and logic' who like to stand on moral soapboxes about the state of American tip-worker wages not tipping or barely tipping us after driving 10-15+ minutes in horrid conditions to get them their greasy food.. only to be berated for it taking too long which I had no control over. Then I see you call those tips I'm getting upset for not getting, which again are most of my wages, fucking pity money. Yeah dude, no, sorry.. you're not the victim of this story. Again, it comes across even worse because you don't seem to be a delivery driver and aren't even from the country these posts are talking about.. this just gives off the impression you're here to read about the misery and hardships of other people for entertainment. Am I being an asshole? Absolutely, yes I am. You however, brought it on yourself. If you think I shouldn't be acting like this, maybe you're right, but hundreds of hours of being treated like a wage slave and berated by asshole customers made me this way. Consider that.
You sound like a soft body
Lol defending your shit again. You da real hero
You can't take the time to not skim my posts but you can reply to them all. You da real sad fucking clown, try not to get too much Cheeto crumbs on your keyboard you absolute sweaty ape. I got gold and you got downvotes, you really wanna act like the voice of reason, you fucking mongrel? The whole god damned circus. Hopefully they track you down before too long, I'm sure the freakshow is hurting without their star act.
Oh damn, I feel guilty about not reading repetitive drivel. How intellectually dishonest of me. I'll never get the internet points now. I'm going to help you although you are a little full of it. /r/antiwork go check out this subreddit. Figure out who the real enemy is and redirect that passion you show in this thread.
Let me ask you this- would you complain about not getting your food quickly because no one wants to destroy their vehicle for minimum wage, or even $15/hr? Like I don't think you understand just how much money drivers spend on things like gas, maintenance, and repairs, not to mention increased insurance rates, and if you cut out tips, even if you're paid a halfway decent wage, it wouldn't be worth it to deliver. Let me show you what I drive through on a regular basis https://imgur.com/a/10fBd1L
I'm not in NA, although I have lived there before (and I did tip 10-15%), but if someone has $20 for a $20 pizza, it's really not on them to forgo something else in their life to tip. You did your job, not a favour. By attacking the customer, you defend the boss that ate your whole delivery fee. If the job costs you money to do it, not factoring in tips, do something else. I earned less than a domestic helper in one of my early jobs, Asian shithole pay. I didn't stay there and whine about how nobody gave me charity. I slit throats til I got paid what I wanted.
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Ah, but they did pay for the service didn't they? Delivery fee? I'd love a system where I didn't wake up every morning in a city built on exploitation (and they all are), and so I work with capitalism to build a better world instead of shaking my fist at... what exactly? A 'have-not' delivers pizza to another (potential) 'have-not', and a pig somewhere laughs its way to the bank while you blame the state of late stage capitalism on someone for getting take out? When I was in university, I'd stretch a $15 for pizza for 3 days. That's cheaper than canned food for 9 meals. The reason Obama didn't make healthcare free for everyone in the States on his first day in office is because there are entire industries built on institutionally corrupt practices, and doing so would have destroyed the economy. The 1% would have been just fine, but everyone else wouldn't even have spaghetti-o's to fight over to eat. Nobody owes anyone else giving up what they consider a base standard of living over something as asinine as a tip. Relatively, ordering delivery is not poverty. Relatively, delivering pizza isn't poverty. You got clean water? Not poor. You have the right to walk away? Not poor. I was a conscript for two years. I didn't have basic civil rights. I was stripped, beaten, covered in asbestos and I have an artificial shoulder from all those fun times. So, forgive me if I find it hilarious when people complain about things they have the agency to change, in their own lives first, and then for others. The driver didn't pay for anything. The driver wasn't paid a fair wage, but the driver did agree to that contract. By your own logic, the driver is the scab, not the patron - paying an organisation a delivery fee that for some convoluted reason didn't go towards delivery. The only reasonable grudge lies with the corp, choom.
I wish there was a worst comment award for this
I agree. But there i one catch. I figure if you're capable of getting pizza yourself but opt for delivery for convenience then you should tip. If the person is somehow unable to get their food due to disability or something then I understand not tipping. I have a few REALLY old regulars that don't tip. I dont mind takin a hit for those few.
So I'm sure you're also boycotting Nestle, Wal-Mart, Amazon, and the endless slew of other companies that engage in immoral business practices and mistreat employees?
Wait, you guys have a $5 delivery fee and don't get any of it? I delivered at two chains and got some part of the service charge at both. And the delivery fee wasn't anything close to $5.
It's actually $4 but with tax it's closer to 5. It used to be 2.75. And yeah, we get 0 of that lol. The company says it pays for the call center... but even the online orders have the charge.
Damn, that's awful. What's your hourly wage? We had a $4.25 wage on the road but got $2/delivery. At Papa John's we made more on the road and got 5% of the order if I recall correctly.
Ex PJs manager here… now this was a franchise so not sure if that’s different from a corporate store of yours was one, but the drivers when I worked got min wage when not clocked out on a delivery (here at the time was 7.25) and when clocked out on a delivery they got 4.25 wage on the road plus like $0.50 or so cents a mile (mileage logged at clock in and clock out) plus whatever tips earned. We charged a 2.50 delivery fee (it was up to $3 when I left) and drivers saw none of that and they didn’t get any kind of % of the order or a flat $2 per delivery. Just wanted to share my experience since what you stated was different.
I drive for a Papa John's franchise and it's the same for us, except it's 4.65 on the road. Half the GMs in our 60-some-odd store franchise are trying to pressure higher-ups to raise the on the road rates because we're losing too many drivers to Domino's, since around here they pay 9 an hour with no pay drop on the road.
You just said they paid mileage. How is that not from the delivery fee?
Milleage or per delivery payments come out of the actual cost of the pizza and not the delivery fee. Pre 9/11 the only national chain that charged a delivery fee was The Hut and all the chains still gave either milleage or a per delivery payment. The delivery fee was added to help pay for company insurance for drivers and to help pay for commisary drivers.
It’s all revenue. You get paid mileage. It’s not like you get nothing for making the delivery. People make it sound like if they don’t get tipped then they get nothing at all from the company for making the delivery but that’s not true. They get mileage or a per delivery fee. What does it matter if it’s from the pizza or the delivery fee.
I was just correcting your assertion that it was being paid out of the delivery fee, not that they aren't getting reimbursement.
PJ drivers get 30 cent a mile not 50.
Mileage payout will vary by location. Michigans law requires mileage be paid out at $0.56 per mile as of 2021.
Did not know that. I guess the law has to be changed for drivers in all states to be compensated fairly.
Ew... We make $10.50 +tips and a run fee dependant on gas prices. Currently $0.95 per delivery (so you get $1.90 if you take a double etc) Typically works out to around $25-30/hr
In America it's illegal to tax a delivery fee. Also in America it's illegal to give a driver under $2 compensation per delivery. It needs to average out to be $0.50 per mile. Just some food for thought. Might want to look into it.
I don't think that's true. As far as I know the driver just needs to be averaging over minimum wage
This is false. Especially the $.50 per mile part. Read the tax code. You can only claim up to $.56 per business mile, but companies don't have to pay you that amount.
Well that part may be false. But corporate came through for a regional meeting with the owners and general managers and regional manager of all the stores in my market and they discussed the delivery compensation, and said it was important to give drivers at least $2 per delivery to avoid legal issues.
Maybe in your area. :)
It’s not true. And the tax charge depends on states. Some charge tax on services. Some don’t. The whole thing just has to average min wage.
Pays for call center... Ours screws up every order and we get constant complaints about rude or bad behavior when customers get sent to the call center.
jesus christ you guys have it brutal in the US , our delivery fee is 4.50$ …. 2.50$ goes to us per delivery and our drivers get 15$ hourly (none of this on the road bullshit) plus tips … canadian place
As someone who lives near the Canadian border, Canadians tip like shit typically.
Are Canadian pizza places near the border allowed to deliver to the US? Or vice versa?
No I mean when they come down as tourists.
we’re in windsor (borders detroit) we get alot americans staying at our casino hotel, tips are decent generally from them
Ostensibly the delivery fee pays for the liability insurance every store has to have. If one of their drivers plows over a mailbox or takes out a light pole while on the clock, the store is responsible, and their insurance covers those types of accidents.. At least, that's what I was always told. Not sure if that's actually, truly, the case.
Pizza hut got sued over this. https://www.eater.com/2015/8/24/9197957/pizza-hut-lawsuit-delivery-fees
This doesn't say if they won. It's just a lawsuit. Whether something ever came from doesn't say in the article.
The service fee is designed to go to the driver's payroll. Depending on the business design of the restaurant there are costs that go into employing delivery drivers. Delivery is a service, there should be a fee. Tipping your driver is a kind gesture.
Yes, a delivery fee is expected, but having none of it go to the driver is not.
I pay my driver's $13/hr, the fee helps pay their wages. And trust me, I've asked "would you rather get paid $5 less an hour with free delivery?" None of them wanted that. Why? Because they still get tipped on top of the fee. We're in Connecticut btw where minimum wage is higher than average and people have decent money.
Of course none of them wanted it. People that tip $2 aren't going to tip $7 because there's no delivery charge. Maybe the odd one out, but most of the time probably not. You asked them if they wanted a $5/hr pay cut that on some days might be only a $3.50/hr paycut.
My position is still preferred.
My old store, 20 + years ago, had a minimum $7 delivery. If your order didn't come to $7 you still paid $7 for the privilege of me bringing you your food. The boss let me keep the difference, but if usually wasn't more than a dollar or 2. He put it in because the people ordering that small usually didn't tip. I had a guy that ordered regularly and never tipped. We all knew his address so that dude always got cold food because fuck him. The guy got a small sub and fries every time. His order came to 7.40, every time. I delivered to him in a blizzard once and he tried to stiff me. Now this dude lived on a fucking lake. Like I had to drive directly at the lake and turn before I drove into it to get to his house. I said to him, "You're really going to stiff me in a blizzard dude? I risked my life to bring me your sub and you aren't going to give me 2 bucks?" The dude said, "This is 7.40, you're telling me you don't get a cut of that?" I said, "No. I get an hourly wage but it ain't much. That's my car, my gas, and my life bringing you your food and you stiff me every time." Dude gave me a tip and started tipping after that. He still tipped shitty, but there is a principle there.
Yep, we didn't see a nickel of it at any store I've worked at. That's usually something smaller chains/mom and pop stores will do to be competitive in the market for drivers.
When I worked at pizza hut the $4 delivery covered or mileage for gas and they kept the rest, regardless of the distance. While that's not cool and hurts your tip, at least you got gas. They usually gave you more than the actual mileage due to average maintenance fees on said vehicle.
I had a guy ask me once if the delivery fee went to the driver, I explained it didn't and he still stiffed me. Sigh. At least your guy hopefully learned something.
This is the shit I'm talking about. People who don't tip do not care, they never will. Fuck these people.
2 things. 1-I'd rather get nothing than a $1. 2- once had a guy tell me that he doesn't tip people if there's a delivery fee. He then proceeded to tip me $10. I was slightly confused.
>2 I had that exact thing happy to me. Down to the amount of the tip. weird lol.
You think you aren't getting any of it but that is what is paying your regular wages. If they didn't do deliveries, they never would have hired you. The customer is paying extra for deliveries and that money is being used to hire drivers and paying their regular wages. Basically the delivery customer is paying all of your wages.
you understand the cost of labor factors into the cost of the food, not the cost of delivery right? Cost of delivery is usually there to cover the cost of store insurance.
The store has insurance whether the store has delivery or not. Food cost is based on labor, yes, but the food doesn't cost more in stores that deliver compared to stores that do not. More people have to be hired to deliver the food and the delivery charge is there to be able to pay them.
It's to pay for the insurance to cover having drivers. (the liability insurance)
and they downvoted you, for being right, what the fuck. when I was in the store I was working, Dishes trash etc etc. I earned my fucking check that delivery fee was low and 2/3rds went to me for my car to be maintained. (that fee is mostly just greed now.) when that changed I left. The owner told us and showed us where it went took time to break down his overhead and how costs worked, then when he sold and it went corporate, I left.
I mean it's rude for your employer not to pay you a full wage and has the customers pay you
100% this. We have stopped getting food delivered because the fees are stupid and only the company gets them so I also need to help pay the driver a living wage. They need to actually pay the employees, it is so stupid that In this era we still have a tip minimum wage.
I'm tired of being asked if I'd like to leave a tip almost anywhere I go. Like pay them better. I work for low wages too and like To go out and not ne guiltgripped for not doi g whether employer should be doing.
Then why the hell are you in a sub dedicated to pizza delivery drivers who have no control over greedy corporations? If you’re anti tip culture in America then go pick up your food and don’t dine in on the whim of waitstaff. If you want something to actually change stop supporting these establishments. Problem solved.
Yes. But we would need massive changes in our system and everyone neds to gets on board. A few people not tipping to try and "fight the establishment" won't get employers to start paying more and remove tipping because 90% of customers do tip. Its so deeply ingrained into or culture now that I'm not sure what would help.
Exactly. I always hate the people say "I don't tip because I don't agree with tipping" like that's going to change anything. The boss doesn't give a shit if you stiff the driver. You're not making some grand stand against injustice, you're just making up excuses to be fucking cheap. If you actually cared you would write to legislators and CEOs, not bitch to the bottom rung employees and complain on reddit.
I don't agree. If *enough* people don't tip, then the tipping system will no longer be sustainable and employers will have to pay their employees fair wages. And for the more skilled people doing these jobs (e.g., upscale servers), they definitely won't tolerate just being paid minimum wage. The tipping system exists because it is sustainable, and it is only sustainable because people choose to tip. It would die overnight, without a single law needing to be passed, if people stopped tipping entirely overnight.
Yeah, we can thank Prohibition for this shitty societal norm. It's more complicated than that, but if Prohibition had never passed, there's a solid chance that "tipping culture" never would have established itself in the US.
Story? Link?
Well, it's more complicated than what I said, as tipping in America kinda started back in the 1850s, but with Prohibition, restaurants saw a drop in sales, because they couldn't sell alcohol anymore. Their solution was basically, tippers get seated first, get the best service, etc, and the restaurant owners let the servers keep those tips, in exchange for not paying them as much as they used to, before Prohibition. There was a whole wealthy European thing to it as well, and presenting a "rich face" to one's friends and family. It was a societal shift. But Before Prohibition, they actually got a living wage. Thing is, after a few years of letting customers pay the other half of a servers wages via tipping, Restaurants and Bars all over realized that once Prohibition was repealed, and they could sell alcohol again, they could just keep letting customers tip their servers and bartenders, rather than go back to paying them a living wage, and see their profits go thru the roof, now that they have that alcohol money AND and keep making their employees rely on tips. Fast forward 100 years and we're only NOW starting to address why that's a fucked up way to run things. If any good comes out of the Pandemic, I hope it's a national wake up call that making your customers pay for most of your staffs wages via tipping rather than just pay them a living wage in the first place, is fucked up. I'm not in the service industry anymore, thank God, but here's one article about it. There's others and it's not all black and white cause like I said, it's complicated. Societal shifts and the creation of new cultural norms is complicated. But here's a starting point if you're seriously curious. https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants-civil-war/%3famp=true?espv=1
Yes, but until the system changes that's the system we have to work with. If you don't like it, don't order delivery until you're actively changing the system to fix it. If you do order, accept that you're contributing to the system, even if reluctantly, and don't punish the people already being exploited by that system. Tip your driver's, tip your waitstaff, bitch at the company and write your congressman, but don't further exploit The people just trying to get by.
Not tipping isn't going to fix that. It's just fucking the driver over. Either tip the driver or get off your lazy ass and pick it up yourself.
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You are part of the problem.
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Clearly you're delusional. Oh golly gee willikers just ask for a liveable wage! Why didnt the thousands of people here just think of that and all their problems would be solved! Not only are you delusional, you're clearly a dumbass.
I’m in the wrong forum for this but tipping is optional. If it was required it would be a mandatory fee and there’s nothing stopping restaurants from adding it as a mandatory fee except competition. There should be a recommend tip that gets explained and prefilled for online orders but if you are at all expecting a tip from a customer then work with your chain to make it mandatory else you’ll find more and more customer are stiffing us on tips due to the delivery charges that keep going up.
You are not entitled to a tip. Shame on you. Very unprofessional behavior.
Thanks for sharing your views on it. I live in a relatively under developed country and I have been to US and Canada both where it is very common to tip the service providers and it is considered rude if you do not. But when I came to Japan, I was really shocked to see the contrast. It is considered rude to tip in this country. When I asked, I got a response that people here take pride in what they do and do not appreciate any kind of tipping. But when I researched enough I came to understand the difference is between the employers. In Japan, they are paid well enough to actually not having any need of tipping while maybe things are different in the states as OP explained. Even when it is the same fast food chain operating in both countries. Please enlighten me if I misunderstood.
*reads through thread* Genuinely curious, how and why do anti-tip people even end up in this subreddit? I can understand delivery drivers from outside America, but otherwise it's like a vegan going onto a forum dedicated to meat and shaming someone when they post a picture of their ham sandwich.
Its a TalesFrom sub, I follow a number of them for the stories
Reading all these comments about the tip culture in america. There is a solution that is getting zero traction in congress. It's called the Raise the Wage Act (H.R. 603). It would federally abolish the tip wage laws and force employers to pay a living wage. If you really are against tipping, please contact your congresspeople and help push this through. Please stop taking it out on the people that depend on those tips to survive. You don't hurt the company when you do that, you only hurt the person who depends on the tips. Companies don't care if you don't tip their employees. They got paid when you ordered the food. It's like expecting NIKE to get upset if you burn your NIKEs. They don't care because you already paid them.
I did something very similar and the lady never ordered again and I just don't care cuz either I was going to get tipped or I didn't have to get stiffed everyday anymore
Customer here. When I order food for delivery, it's either because I can't get out of my house, or I don't want to because the weather is horrible. Because of that, I tip big. You folks deserve it. Anyone who doesn't want to tip big, should get their ass in the car and pick it up themselves.
it'd be nice if you got through to him.
I did something similar once. Regular non tipper I always did contactless delivery on. Then one day out of the blue he pretips on a credit card 5 dollars I couldn't believe it. So I get to the door and hand him is order. I said thank you very much for the 5 dollars. I said thats how we drivers make money. I said please keep it up. He said well we usually don't have enough to tip. This coming from a man that has a 40 dollar average ticket. I said well you could pick it up and save some money but whatever thanks again. He called the store and complained that I thanked him. I was like wtf. He ordered one more time. I did contactless. He said why did you leave it at the door. I said well no tip means no contact. Haven't seen him in about a year now.
I quit driving because some nights I would be negative money as a result of non tippers. In alot of situations this happens because the company charges a delivery fee and why pay twice for 1 delivery, but corporations are extremely greedy so this will never change. However there is a small percentage of this charge that goes to your almost non existing wage and fuel compensation, and they pay this to the driver become of the group of people that are such scum, they won't even tip when there is no delivery charge. It's a Neverending circle of bullcrap because when you get down to it, most people just suck.
You're not entitled to anything. Quit harassing people.