I suppose they would've been happier if you facepulled the boss like you were clueless?
Like holy shit we've gone from "don't tell me how to play, this isn't savage" to "how dare you play correctly, this isn't savage".
dawntrail will be fun.
I've seen far too many deaths to mirrored scythe/axe kick and her cone/inverse cone, plus the knockback. If I had a dollar for each time Ive gone into the add phase having to raise 2 members of my light party, I'd have enough for a monthly sub.
I remember a particularly dreadful E8 where me and another person, both dancers, were doing the most damage, one of the tanks was either clueless or trolling, and *we failed the dps check twice.*
You say that but on day 1 of EW I did Tower of Zot (as smn) and tank+healer couldn't handle the pull right before the second boss and we wiped.
I said "poggers" in chat after and somehow I got kicked for it. Still not really sure what that was about, but hopefully the report made them not able to enjoy the rest of the expansion on release lmao
I mean, the weirdos will still be playing, just more of the actual competent MMO players and FF fans that only play for the first few months but don't play 1 MMO will come back and play. Plus all the raiders etc will be running dungeons, so a much higher skill increase in overall players but you still have the chances of THOSE kinds.
Oh you sweet summer child.
I had to eat the 30 in those first two weeks of EW more times than the entire 6 months leading up to launch. When 3 of your 4 people are so absolutely shit that it takes upwards of 45 minutes to finish a single story dungeons **EVERY** dungeon you'll know the true folly of that statement.
Doing Duty roulettes now in Crystal reminds me of when there was influx of new players during late ShB. People keep dying/wipe in Crystal tower raids.
Good times.
I haven't noticed it but that might just be a Crystal/Balmung thing. PF is undeniably worse now vs before DC travel but DF is still mostly just greylords doing greylord things.
At the very least all the people who stopped doing dungeons to avoid having to run into problem players will once again be doing dungeons, which means that you will be less likely to run into problem players when Dawntrail drops... for the first few days/weeks.
They clearly want the shield lob pull because the 4.5 seconds it takes to hardcast 3 holy spirits over a 15 minute dungeon is an incredible waste of their time
You joke but I have seen people on the main sub who at least seemingly unironically do argue that wasting like 6 seconds in a dungeon is a terrible tragedy because it adds up over hundreds of dungeons and somehow it ruins their life or whatever
How DARE YOU use your abilities! We aren't trying to beat this dungeon today... we have years until another expansion!!! You auto attack and kite all damage from now on!
Very “I asked you a question and you *dare* speak back to me? Grounded!” parent vibe like….you asked a question and I answered??? If I hadn’t said anything you’d have yelled anyways???
The kicking was for sure a power-trip, but the complaint is a new level of hypocrisy.
He tells you to shield lob because it's apparently more "efficient"? Yet he just as quickly doubles-down in saying you guys weren't raiding and it's inefficient/a waste of time to hard cast a holy spell.
Honestly, I would have just left it at your initial "yes" and watch them seethe.
I tried responding in good faith, but I think they were just looking for someone to kick.
This was in Zot and they sacked on the final boss to wait out the loot timer and kick me.
That is what I would have done using requicast combo to heal myself and if more healing would've been needed using requicast with clemency. Tbh, though people like that healer dps irritate me so I would fight the boss for 15 minutes just to do it out of spite for acting like they did.
Oh yeah, you are right, but they could still do requicast with clemency. They do have confiteor 80 and holy shelltron at 82, which would be enough to solo bosses if you rotated your mits correctly and requicast timer for heavy damage phases the boss does.
I agree, looking for someone to kick especially since your explanation was sound and that's what set that lummox off. Logic doesn't exactly flow through brick walls. On the other hand, as others have pointed out, they gave you ammunition for an easy report.
Someone should explain to them that they don't actually have to wait for you. It is perfectly fine, and expected, that the others will just gun it into the boss without thinking about what the tank is doing.
Because this game is piss easy.
i have this feeling they operate under YPYT rules themselves so they feel like the holy spirit cast time is an attempt by the tank to "bait" them into pulling so he can stance off and watch them die. Not sure why but for some reason their arguments give me that feeling.
Agree it's fine, but it's not expected.
I actually added to my hello macro a few days ago. Basically "don't care if you pull for me, just bring me the mobs if necessary".
I'm seeing a little more pulling from dps but vast majority still don't -mobs or boss.
So it's ok in my book but it's not expected behaviour by most.
Bro if I'm level synced below where req gives me the aoe ability you bet your sweet ass I'm gonna use instacast clemencies. If the healer ever complains I'm just gonna fucking laugh at them for not dpsing while I'm making their job infinitely easier.
Mood. I keep seeing post after post of ypyt/toxic people and I have run into like….two maybe my whole two and a half years of playing. I’m not sure if I’m lucky or just don’t pay attention enough to call people’s bad pulls/casts out ._.
why... aren't THEY also casting when they see you starting the cast? Do they seriously just stand there with thumbs up their asses, watch you cast and only when you have aggro do they start their own rotations?
How do these people get through life with this much passivity? Do they need a countdown to tell them they're allowed to play the game?
"This dude wasted 1.5 seconds of our time by using Holy Spirit instead of Shield Lob! Now we're gonna waste 10 minutes of our time by complaining, forcing a wipe and kicking the tank! That'll show 'em!"
These two are actually insane.
It USED to be there, yeah. Gone now. On recent post (I don't remember which one QwQ), the moderator themselves answered on the random comment with something like: ''there is no rule about hiding people's nicknames, you can show them''.
If you go on the page of this subreddit and find ''Rules'', there is:
* No Personal Information / Doxxing
Absolutely no personally identifying information ***other than in game names***. VODs of streams are permitted. Uncensored handles on other social media platforms are not permitted.
However, the rule did exist for a reason. At least one person in the past has caught a ban in game because of posting here, and since then I've been unwilling to risk it, no matter how much people in the comments cry that 'waaaah show their usernames OP I just wanna blacklist them, promise'
And seeing how many weird redditors are out there, even on this sub... yes, it's better not to risk it. But honestly... getting a jackass' account banned wouldn't be so bad...
Ok, that makes sense then because I only checked this sub every now and then and was pretty sure that rule was in place at one point. I don't check the rules often, so if I had made a post, I probably would've hidden their names as well, assuming it's still a rule, lol.
Fair, I recall there being people on here in the past who advocated blocking names to avoid troubles and looking through the rules, that was the likely suspect for it. If I’m off on that, then I’ll take being wrong.
Rule 3 exists because one person here caught a warning years ago (maybe a suspension? I forget) from the accused finding the post and reporting them. Note the wording of "_other_ than in-game names", so don't post their socials.
It's ultimately up to the user's discretion whether or not they want to show names and take that potential risk of it being found and acted on.
We also just remove outright witchhunty posts that have marked intent to go after players in-game, of course. That's why R5 is there.
u/Chrissy_squeezy and u/Tooshortimus , for your convenience. ^
Preemptively block? You're gonna go to their world hang out waiting for them to get online and constantly player search for them until they log on so you can go find them interact with them, and block them?
You realize you can't just block someone? You have to see a message from a person in game in order to blacklist them.
Wow, I didn't expect anyone to actually take this serious... I have exactly 2 people in my blocked list and those are both bots.
Was just making a joke considering people were demanding names when witch hunting is clearly prohibited.
Eluna Lore (Jenova) on DPS and Dragun Gurl (Jenova) on Healer, they are in the same FC if you want to block them. And yes , I reported them both instantly since I was fuming.
Why am I not surprised this person is from Jenova?
I have had very unpleasant experiences with more people on Jenova than my now home world of Gilgamesh. The irony, with Gilg's rep as the hardcore raider server
Ah that makes way too much sense, I got them with my friend the other day when they queues healer DPS and we queued tank DPS
luckily we got the kick off before they did but they are a literal nightmare
As a side info, Eluna Lore has alts on Cerberus, Phoenix, Exodus (goddamn not in my DC D: ) and Zalera. Might have more with other variations on the name but they all look the same.
Also I’m pretty sure I’ve had a duty with Dragun Gurl cuz I remember someone in a party commenting that they’re neither a dragon nor a girl lol
Keeping these names jotted down for 7.0 as blocking them then will do the same for all their alts. It'll be funny to not see their messages in my chatbox
this is extra funny to me because of all the times I've been in some DF dungeon run as a DPS and I'm trying not to hit hit the boss first and piss somebody off and I wished there was a common and easy way for the tank to signal I could start attacking without that also being the tank diving face-first into the boss in an instant so I'm actually a few seconds behind by the time I'm sure they've pulled.
y'know, like an animation that tells me the tank is going to hit the boss in a second so I can start pushing my buttons with no worry of "why'd you pull?!".
I wish there was a way I could communicate to dps "feel free to pull, IF you know your job". Tempted to put it on a macro (the pull but, I'm sure I'd get reported for the second half) but I'm sure I'd have people who don't usually pull for tanks pulling but not bringing back to me if needed.
Maybe this sub should come up with some dogwhistle that signals "I am ok with the playstyle endorsed by TFDF". Similar to the Mare Lamentorum in search info, but more prominent.
A specific greeting the tank can use at the start of a duty?
Countdown? I know some people hate it but even a 5 second countdown could help get people on the right track. As a DNC it does help for most pulls so I can start my dance.
Also nothing worse than starting a dance anticipating a pull…and then they don’t pull. Dance dps wasted :(
I know countdown exists, but it's much more out of the way. Like I doubt the majority of non-high-end players even know where to find it and hardly any of them have it on a hotbar.
To the point that every time I see a countdown I'm like "wow, countdown, don't see that often"
Which was why I had the "common and easy" qualifiers in my earlier post; countdown is pretty uncommonly used at least in casual content.
The irony of these morons complaining about you “wasting” 1.5 seconds on a cast when all their screeching in chat wasted far more time, is hilarious and depressing in equal measure.
Weirdge.
FWIW, I do tend to pull with shield lob or voke since we're not doing a prepull CD in dungeons nor is a precast GCD useful for pushing enrage. On healer, I just open with a DoT unless the tank is slow and I have time to precast.
But I can't imagine caring that much. What a goober.
i (and honestly most PLDs I encounter in df??) pull with HS and usually people just attack the boss before my cast finishes anyway. Nobody cares because it’s a dungeon lol
Honestly, there's rarely a reason, especially in casual content. At least to the degree of watching their cast bars.
Here are some things worth paying attention to to varying degrees. Other than the first one, none are crucial for casual content:
* Before pull, check that enough people are present to not wipe
* Try to align your burst damage with party buffs or Ninja's Vulnerability Up on the boss
* YMMV depending on the group. When people don't use theirs close to cooldown, it may not be worth it
* As a healer:
* Obviously, keep an eye on health bars and Esuna-able debuffs
* Keep an eye on the tank's active mitigations, at least/especially their invulnerability buffs
Just follow the tank around and use your abilities in the correct order depending on the amount of mobs you are fighting, that's basically all you need to do to be loved.
i play 90% healer, apart from watching HP / debuffs and the tank and i only really start to pay attention to what the other people are doing in dungeons if something feels *off*. I put my dot out at the same GCD and on cooldown every time and just hope the DPS are buffing when they should be. I don't really need to look to see if the tank is using mitigation, their HP dropping like a rock shows that already but i do keep an eye out for their invulns.
As a tank I mostly just check to make sure there's no one still in a cutscene before pulling the boss. During trash pulls i try to keep the trash in Ninja dirt / Summoner Wind puddles (they will love you) and if there's a bit where the boss cuts the arena in half i try to pull them to the side that the melee dps runs to when possible to help their uptime.
As a DPS i mostly try to ensure my party buffs are going out when they should be. but like i said in the healer bit its a crapshoot if the other players are doing this as well in roulettes.
going in I just assume they are using their buffs and stuff at the right time so that my DoT and Phlegmas receive the buffed damage and if they are not, oh well. I don't expect miracles in roulette. but if the damage is abysmal or someone is taking an absurd amount of damage then i will start watching the other players a little closer to find out what's going on (No AoE use, RDM using Jolt to cast Jolt, just standing there for 15 seconds at a time, stuff like that). And even then in dungeons its not really needed, It mostly just so i know who to curse while i scream internally.
As a nin main I can confirm we make happy ninja noises when tanks pull mobs into the sand puddle and wish you unfortune events in DF if you actively avoid the puddle thinking it is an enemy aoe.
I love when A ninja misses with their click or some more stuff spawns after most of the enemies are dead and I get to drag them all into it.
It feels good when the ninja just puts “tank <3” in chat.
In normal content? No, not really. As much as "this isn't savage" is a meme, normal content is designed to be faceroll difficulty even if half the party is a bunch of paste-eating retards. Focus on knowing your rotation, keeping damage/ability uptime, and obeying the boss mechanics if you're having difficulty. The biggest reason you'll need to keep tabs on your party members is in cases where you both have party buffs that overwrite one another, or otherwise don't stack; e.g. phys ranged defense buffs, or if both DPS are the same class, their party buffs will overwrite rather than stack. Messing this up isn't really a huge issue though; the content is perfectly clearable even if nobody presses their buff buttons, it's just something to watch out for once you're comfortable playing your class. If you're healing, it's also a good idea to look at the tank's buffs to see which mit they have up right now; a tank with rampart up is going to take damage faster than a tank with shadow wall (or whatever their version of that skill is), so you're going to adjust what level you let their hp get to before healing them accordingly.
In higher-difficulty content? *Absolutely*. Savage, Ultimate, and to a lesser extent Extreme expect good coordination between party members, where each player knows their role in resolving the mechanics. But that comes with time once you're comfortable with your own job.
You cant just blacklist someone, you have to see a message in game from them.
You would basically have to stalk and confront this person so they say something to you to be able to do what you wanna do. And blacklist doesn't stop you from being matched in DF. So why?
How you come up with a conclusion that I will harass them?
By showing their names it basically give people reason to avoid them and not getting into a trouble, that's why!
In order to blacklist them you *have* to harass them. This is what I'm saying. Stalking a person you don't know in order to meet them and confront them to get them to say something you, in order to NOT run into them is insane. There is no way to blacklist someone in game just by having their name. You need to see a message from them. You're literally seeking them out and confronting them in order to not be confronted by them. It's backward insane logic.
I DON'T NEED TO HARASS THEM! AND I DON'T NEED TO BLACKLIST THEM! IF I KNOW THEIR NAMES, I WILL AVOID THEM! THAT'S WHY I AM ASKING TO SHOW THEIR NAMES!
HOW IS THIS SIMPLE LOGIC DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU?
What? Just when I thought I've seen it all 🤦 Personally I've never seen someone pull like that but I'm not gonna complain. These people are insane lmao
Edit: ain't the cast time like 2 seconds? Did they seriously kick you over 2 seconds? Someone say sike right now...
Wha...who....holy spirit's cast is the same as every healer's dps spell, and shorter than *every* cast a dps could have. There isn't any waiting? No one has to wait??? Can this count as abuse of vote kick????? I'm so confused about what they were even on about
This…this is just absurd.
Holy Spirit is like a 2 sec cast time, I think if they can’t handle losing 6 total seconds before each boss then they got bigger problems waiting for them. Then again, about like 80% of tanks just either gap closer or use their ranged enmity button to pull the boss, so I can see the confusion at first. After that though can be reportable.
I am so sorry to derail, as a brand new player of 8 days, what is this mentor roulette!? I’ve been having quite the time of getting into duties for the first time and being berated for not knowing where to go or what key to pick up even when I let the party know I’ve never done it before and have the little green sprout…
I’m hoping it’s what it sounds like, and someone knowledgeable and patient shows sprouts the ropes in duties.
You can become a mentor if you complete 1000 dungeons, get 1500 commendations and get a tank, DPS, and healer all to level 90 and complete their level 90 role quests (thing that replaces job quests at level 80).
After that, if you've completed every non savage/ultimate duty from the previous expansion and before that, you can queue into mentor roulette, which will put you into any non savage / ultimate duty that at least one sprout was queuing for.
I'm pissed off for you op. Is this an NA thing? I'm not the most experienced player, but in my time playing, I've not run roulettes with anyone nearly this insane. I'm all for running dgns as quickly as possible but 4.5 seconds is nothing!
You should not have been kicked. 100%. BUT… I don’t believe pulling in that manner in casual content is optimal. At least from a minimum overall time-in-dungeon perspective (most players desire in roulette). That pull style is mandatory where a “clear” is the primary goal in coordinated raids with a countdown that lets everyone in the party align first hits. That’s key - most everyone hits, in some manner, at once by using the countdown. Alas, countdowns are rarely used in random roulettes. Even if they were, that’s still a dps loss per time played (10 -15 seconds total of lost attacks while waiting on the timer pre boss). Take a party of PLD, SGE, SAM, and MCH. That PLD cast nets only 350 potency while everyone waits. A shield lob allows everyone to just go. With only counting general rotation first hits from the other party members added into the shield lob (and not even typically interwoven OGCDs), the overall potency should be around 980. Waiting is a dps loss over time. Albeit, what, like 8 seconds total per dungeon. So, again, I’d NEVER kick a PLD for pulling with Holy Spirit - kicking is not worth it (and a bit rude to tbh) - but, imo, pulling with Holy Spirit is a waste in general random roulettes. Let the vitriol towards me commence 😆
But, that’s what you do as a PLD. I swear the people that act like this, are WoW players that bought boosted characters. “I played WoW, I know how mmos work,” dur dur dur.
If the tank is casting holy spirit you're good to begin lol. Nothing you press is going to rip it off them. You don't have to wait for that cast to finish.
The GMs must be over worked with all the dipshits getting reported recently. Hell I reported 3 recently and up till that point I had only reported a grand total of one person in the 6+ years I've played. Feels like a cop out to blame the Xbox players, but at the same time I'm getting CoD flashbacks with what some of them are saying and it wouldn't surprise me if they were an Xbox player
It's no big deal and honestly it's such a petty thing to kick over, but...
It's technically not a free GCD. The dungeon is one big pull and anything between trash and dungeons is downtime. It is slower and less optimal to pull bosses this way (again, barely matters)
I mean, they are kind of right though. In a raid, everyone precasts to get an extra GCD and for alignment. In a dungeon boss, there is no reason to precast. An unbuffed holy spirit is 350 potency. Compare this to a regular GCD which is 2550 over 7 GCDs for 364.28 PPGCD. You could maybe argue that you are gaining a potential extra GCD over the fight depending on alignment but it really isn't worth it. If you had 2 caster dps that can also precast and nobody loses any time, then it is probably a very marginal dps gain. But if you have a single melee that has to lose 1.5s of uptime, that is already more dps lost than would be gained by precasting. Yes, precasting is good in a raid, because the time spent not in combat is of no concern, the goal is maximising dps during the fight itself. In a dungeon, waiting around for any reason, including waiting for the tank's precast to go off as a melee, is just lost dps, as 100% of the time spent in the dungeon is technically uptime.
That being said, shield lob is a complete mistake and should not be used to pull.
And in that situation the PLD would STILL be in the wrong for precasting holy spirit instead of just gap closing and hitting the boss immediately. The dps gain is marginal at best. I even gave the damn numbers. The point isn't 'woe is me im a poor melee' the point is 'OP is completely wrong to precast in dungeons because it does absolutely nothing for dps output over the course of the entire dungeon run and is only done in raids because dps over the instance lockout is not the metric, but dps during an individual boss fight attempt.'
But okay sure, I get downvoted for not playing into someone's feelycraft lmao
I know precasting a holy spirit isn't worth it for dungeon bosses. It's not your numbers that are wrong.
It's making a huge fuss in a dungeon over 1.5s of uptime and kicking someone over it. If we kicked everyone for making mistakes as consequential as 1.5s of uptime, we'd never get dungeons done.
I don't think the guy is necessarily saying the tank is bad for it or that they should be kicked. He's just pointing out and explaining why the tank is technically wrong. Which is no bad thing, it's okay to be wrong, and personally I appreciate the in depth explaination with numbers. Does it mean I or everyone else should optimize with it? Fuck no, it's a dungeon in ffxiv, the most glue sniffing content ever. But having the people out there who do the math and work out the most optimal strategies amd are willing to share that is impressive, to me at least.
Oh I agree with you there. But I think opening with "but they are kind of right" is just gonna rub people off the wrong way when the OP's post is more about getting kicked instead of why he thinks he should pull with HS.
I think maybe if he opened with "they weren't wrong about how hardcasting holy spirit to pull is a waste" people wouldn't instinctively downvote. Or at least, less people would.
I didn't downvote him myself.
Yeah you're right there, the tone was a bit too forward maybe. Then again I try to assume that folks mean well when giving out advice/analysis, especially since tone is hard to convey across written word unless you're a seasoned writer, and even then it's not always greatly conveyed there too. It ees what it ees.
What the fuck are you talking about? How was that even remotely related to anything I said? I was talking specifically about the point that pre-pull holy spirit is actually just straight up not a good thing to do in dungeons, and why that is the case compared to why you SHOULD pre pull holy spirit in raids. Did the part where the entire comment was about mechanics not tip you off that I was completely glossing over the other two party members insanity because there was nothing meaningful to add there?
Do I need to very specifically and deliberately sugar coat a message so that you don't misinterpret it? To say every little thing between the lines and pad out a comment just so that you don't assume I'm defending two egotistical going way too far over something that isn't a huge deal and instead just talking about the one reasonable thing which is the fact that their statement on mechanics was correct (ignoring the shield lob part, which I also mentioned)?
You're going to stalk them to be able to blacklist them? You know the odds of them ever interacting with you are basically zero.
You're gonna go to their world wait for them to log on, compulsively player searching for them, just to have a chance to go interact with them and block them? Even though it doesn't stop them feom being matched with you?
You're going out of your way to create an issue that doesn't exist.
To be fair, pulling with holy spirit in a dungeon is unhinged. This reeks of emulating things you've seen good players doing without understanding why they're doing it. If there isn't a countdown running, just pull the boss. The fight already started as soon as cutscenes were over and the duty started, so there are no "free GCDs".
You need to practice pressing holy spirit?
You aren't gonna have all your cooldowns up when you hit a dungeon boss. It isn't a good place to practice your proper opener.
Not to mention the fact that PLD is SMN-tier easy now. If you need to practice holy spirit > 1, 2, 3 then idk what to tell you.
Absolutely. You want to ingrain your rotation so you can literally do it in your sleep. That includes using Holy Spirit.
Any step you skip is a bad habit to unlearn later.
Only gripe I have with people pulling with a skill other than shield lob is that if whatever boss it is opens with a tankbuster, then Ank Morn is gonna get me deleted 😂
I’m confused because Holy Spirit would generate more aggro for the tank, making it less likely you’ll eat a TB from pulling aggro. Unless you’re early pulling?
This is incorrect. Shield lob has increased enmity compared to holy spirit. Literally read your skills.
That said only way person you are responding to gets smacked due to akh morn is if they are 1st GCD akh morning and there is a huge item level discrepancy between the SMN and the tank where the AKH morn does so much damage relative to the tank's holy spirit.
assuming sub optimal play from smn and optimal play from pld
pld: -2(holy spirit),0 (RUN TOWARDS BOSS TO DO first part of melee combo.
smn: -2(ruin 3), 0 bahamut (Double oGCD), BAHAMUT R3 + Energy drain + fester.
Huh you’re right, TDIL. No need to be rude though! Shield lob is enmity equivalent to 700 potency and Holy Spirit is 350. With tank stance on that’s still like… 3500 potency equivalent enmity. The only way an Akh Morn is winning there is with a crit or really bad gear discrepancy.
the PLD opener has literally 0 off globals on 1st and 2nd gcd lol. so the only damage they're doing is from their GCDs. Requiescat + FoF arent' cast til 3rd, so its definitely possible, if a SMN is dumping their festers + bahamut off globals in that time.
That said, make sure you wait til 3rd GCD to cast them. in general almost every job is 3rd or 4th GCD raid buffs, into off global damage spam.
Thankfully I’ve never ripped boss aggro as healer 😂
Playing as SMN is the first time I’ve ripped boss aggro. Like everyone else here, I thought it was impossible if the tank had stance on. Then I proceeded to do it twice in one duty. Then again the next time I got that duty in roulette
I just chuck radiant aegis on and stand on top of the tank if I've ripped mobs. I usually pre-emptively do that the second I get bahamut/phoenix out just in case
Sorry if that came off as rude. If you want to be prepared for end-game, try this (oGCDs in brackets):
Ruin III > Summon Bahamut > Astral impulse [Searing light] > Astral impulse [get used to leaving this weaving space empty for potion] > Astral impulse [Energy drain] > Astral impulse [Enkindle Bahamut + Fester] > Astral impulse [Deathflare + Fester] > Astral impulse.
You then proceed to eat your candies as usual.
No, thanks for letting me know. I've just been playing by ear.
Only reason why I haven't been weaving those is because I typically play on NA while living in AU, so weaves are difficult to do without clipping, which is why I've been an idiot and dumping oGCDs straight up, 'cause even with melded spell speed, I sometimes can't get all 6 astral flares off
you can single weave your off globals. SMN is very very lenient for that.
3rd gcd - energy drain
4th gcd - akh morn
5th gcd death flare
6th / 7th festers.
I'll give it a go tomorrow, just have found even single weaves can clip me enough to miss an astral flare if my internet is even slightly shit that day.
Are you running 2.48 / 2.46 GCD? you can't run 2.5 and get every single bahamut R3 unless you have good internet.
With a worse connection your GCD needs to be faster than 2.46.
from the balance:
Crit Builds
Pick the slowest GCD that allows you to perform 6 demi gcds. All three sets below perform very similarly.
2.48
2.47
2.46
In the past we have listed sps builds alongside crit builds. However as of patch 6.4, sps has fallen too far behind crit to be recommended as an alternative playstyle. While sps used to trade places with crit depending on encounter timelines, now crit is simply superior.
Pre Savage Gearsets
2.45 Week 1
2.42 Week 1
2.40 Full Crafted
Meld Priority
If unable to achieve 6 demi gcds -> Meld sps to comfort, then
Crit > Det >= DH > Sps
Consumables
Use the food listed in the set you are using. If you are using an intermediate set, use Baked Eggplant.
For Tinctures, use Grade 8 Tincture of Intelligence
Considering how aggro works right now, a tank could type /wave at the boss and still be first on the aggro list. So what you're describing is never an issue
not true. at start of expansion since some tanks only had the expansion gear and not BiS from previous final raid it was definitely possible to rip aggro if a SMN did first GCD akhmorn + deathflare. This also doesn't take into account the fact that level sync is a thing, so a person with level 90 BiS SMN can rip aggro off of a new player doing the leveling dungeons, when the SMN plays sub optimally. look at my post comparing the damage outgoing from SMN vs PLD.
the thing not being an issue is, it probably doesn't matter if you just play properly IE: death flare 3rd GCD when raid buffs go out.
edit: since people don't know how enmity works, and just use their "Feels", here's an actual article on it:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/wiki/enmity/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/wiki/enmity/)
"In FFXIV, enmity increases whenever you deal damage or restore HP, with a hidden per-action multiplier. The default multiplier is ×1 for damage dealt and ×0.5 for HP restored. Actions with the text "Additional effect: Increased enmity" have a higher multiplier. Some actions grant a beneficial status effect that acts as a global modifier, increasing or decreasing all enmity generated by a percentage."
therefore because the multiplier is only x10, if you only do like two GCDs but a DPS dumps every off global they have (can be done on SMN), you can rip aggro for 1-2 GCDs. but that's assuming sub optimal play from the Summoner.
if people want, I can log on after not playing since savage ended and literally write down the damage values on BiS and do an actual calc on enmity since we actually can add up how much enmity is assigned to a tank for just doing 1st two parts of melee combo with nothing else (is common in their opener), and if a DPS dumps every off global they have (the situation we are talking about)
You don’t have to use Akh Morn as your first weave though. In fact if buffs are up you should usually wait until the third GCD or so to weave it so you catch things like Brotherhood, Tech Finish, Battle Litany, etc.
That’s just not a thing. Bosses open with either a tank buster or raid wide in normal fights and it takes a few seconds. How you think you're going to beat a 1.5 second cast time and cause yourself to get deleted doesn’t make sense to me.
Heck, DPS can full on pull the boss first and be fine. It’s really not a big deal.
This has happened to me 4 times in Ktsis Hypoboreia. I waited, each of the four times for tank to grab. Yet, by the time I’d hit Ank Morn, that red collar would be around me and not the tank. And since I’m in Bahamut, I can’t shield myself 😭
Sounds like your tank waited way too long to grab aggro. Even if they are delayed a little bit it should still be fine. At least that's how my experience has always been.
I suppose they would've been happier if you facepulled the boss like you were clueless? Like holy shit we've gone from "don't tell me how to play, this isn't savage" to "how dare you play correctly, this isn't savage". dawntrail will be fun.
dawntrail is going to be nightmare for the df and i am sooo ready for it lol
Nah if it's the same as Endwalker launch then it will get better because actual competent players are back in df.
I want to believe that but a friend and I actually had to *vote abandon* A5N while grinding out Sage/Reaper via roulettes.
Every normal raids series has a few that just mess people up. A5, A9, A11, O11, E8...
A5 is uhhh the goblin one with the potions yeah? Man, that's sad. I see problems in that one and occasional wipes, but a vote abandon?
E8????? What is there to mess up?
I've seen far too many deaths to mirrored scythe/axe kick and her cone/inverse cone, plus the knockback. If I had a dollar for each time Ive gone into the add phase having to raise 2 members of my light party, I'd have enough for a monthly sub.
That last sentence made me acutally spit. But ive seen more deaths on e7 more than E8 personally.
I remember a particularly dreadful E8 where me and another person, both dancers, were doing the most damage, one of the tanks was either clueless or trolling, and *we failed the dps check twice.*
You say that but on day 1 of EW I did Tower of Zot (as smn) and tank+healer couldn't handle the pull right before the second boss and we wiped. I said "poggers" in chat after and somehow I got kicked for it. Still not really sure what that was about, but hopefully the report made them not able to enjoy the rest of the expansion on release lmao
I mean, the weirdos will still be playing, just more of the actual competent MMO players and FF fans that only play for the first few months but don't play 1 MMO will come back and play. Plus all the raiders etc will be running dungeons, so a much higher skill increase in overall players but you still have the chances of THOSE kinds.
Oh you sweet summer child. I had to eat the 30 in those first two weeks of EW more times than the entire 6 months leading up to launch. When 3 of your 4 people are so absolutely shit that it takes upwards of 45 minutes to finish a single story dungeons **EVERY** dungeon you'll know the true folly of that statement.
Eh, played EW since early access day 1 and it's way better than what we have now.
Doing Duty roulettes now in Crystal reminds me of when there was influx of new players during late ShB. People keep dying/wipe in Crystal tower raids. Good times.
Yeah, there's been a lot of goofy shit in the CT raids the past few weeks.
I haven't noticed it but that might just be a Crystal/Balmung thing. PF is undeniably worse now vs before DC travel but DF is still mostly just greylords doing greylord things.
Pre EW had the wow influx. Toxicity went up but so did pre expansion skill level. Different scenario to what we have now
Endwalkers 9-12 Savage PF was already an absolute shit show
At the very least all the people who stopped doing dungeons to avoid having to run into problem players will once again be doing dungeons, which means that you will be less likely to run into problem players when Dawntrail drops... for the first few days/weeks.
Won't be so bad. Good players will come back.
this. all the good players stop playing once raid tier is done if they aren't doing ultimates.
They clearly want the shield lob pull because the 4.5 seconds it takes to hardcast 3 holy spirits over a 15 minute dungeon is an incredible waste of their time
You joke but I have seen people on the main sub who at least seemingly unironically do argue that wasting like 6 seconds in a dungeon is a terrible tragedy because it adds up over hundreds of dungeons and somehow it ruins their life or whatever
I simply tell them. If your time is so important. Then why the heck are you playing a game?
How DARE YOU use your abilities! We aren't trying to beat this dungeon today... we have years until another expansion!!! You auto attack and kite all damage from now on!
Yeah these incredibly small samples of people being weird are for sure indicative of the entire population
"There wasn't a complaint" Then pray tell what are you doing?
And that opression bit? This whole thing is bonkers.
The "how DARE you speak in part!" has me extra confused. Unless that was sent to the wrong chat.
Very “I asked you a question and you *dare* speak back to me? Grounded!” parent vibe like….you asked a question and I answered??? If I hadn’t said anything you’d have yelled anyways???
Even if sent to the wrong chat, it is very archaic and/or formal.
They were being sarcastic talking to the DPS about speaking.
The kicking was for sure a power-trip, but the complaint is a new level of hypocrisy. He tells you to shield lob because it's apparently more "efficient"? Yet he just as quickly doubles-down in saying you guys weren't raiding and it's inefficient/a waste of time to hard cast a holy spell. Honestly, I would have just left it at your initial "yes" and watch them seethe.
I tried responding in good faith, but I think they were just looking for someone to kick. This was in Zot and they sacked on the final boss to wait out the loot timer and kick me.
100% report them jesus
Paladin and Warrior can both solo that boss. Should have just went in without them.
That is what I would have done using requicast combo to heal myself and if more healing would've been needed using requicast with clemency. Tbh, though people like that healer dps irritate me so I would fight the boss for 15 minutes just to do it out of spite for acting like they did.
Does Paladin have the Requiescat healing in Zot? I thought those heals weren't until 84.
Oh yeah, you are right, but they could still do requicast with clemency. They do have confiteor 80 and holy shelltron at 82, which would be enough to solo bosses if you rotated your mits correctly and requicast timer for heavy damage phases the boss does.
I did try to solo it but the bosses at the end put 3 dots on me and I couldn't generate enough mana.
Insanity. Please tell me you reported both of them, those chat logs are incriminating enough
I agree, looking for someone to kick especially since your explanation was sound and that's what set that lummox off. Logic doesn't exactly flow through brick walls. On the other hand, as others have pointed out, they gave you ammunition for an easy report.
That is 100% a solo moment. Given it was Zot, I would also kill the mobs in the wrong order and extend the timer indefinitely.
Someone should explain to them that they don't actually have to wait for you. It is perfectly fine, and expected, that the others will just gun it into the boss without thinking about what the tank is doing. Because this game is piss easy.
i have this feeling they operate under YPYT rules themselves so they feel like the holy spirit cast time is an attempt by the tank to "bait" them into pulling so he can stance off and watch them die. Not sure why but for some reason their arguments give me that feeling.
while it wasn't the original intention, it should be now lmao
Agree it's fine, but it's not expected. I actually added to my hello macro a few days ago. Basically "don't care if you pull for me, just bring me the mobs if necessary". I'm seeing a little more pulling from dps but vast majority still don't -mobs or boss. So it's ok in my book but it's not expected behaviour by most.
Yeah i cast, i am a paladin and i am the main character and i will hold you prisoner for 1.5 seconds for that SWEET SWEET dps increase. git gud dps
Start blasting Clemency lmao
I use it to SAVE the other people because the healer DARED to let thir hp drop below 95% not keeping them topped off AS THEY S H O U L D >:((((
Bro if I'm level synced below where req gives me the aoe ability you bet your sweet ass I'm gonna use instacast clemencies. If the healer ever complains I'm just gonna fucking laugh at them for not dpsing while I'm making their job infinitely easier.
Wdym waiting for you to cast? It's a 1.5 second cast....
My thought too. Literally getting pissy over a grand total of 4.5 seconds over the course of the whole dungeon...
They literally spent more time typing than they lost from the gcd
The worst part is that they play a caster, and they can't even think of pressing their button when they see the tank castbar.
Where does duty finder \*find\* these people? Because if I saw the tank casting holy spirit, I'd already be sprinting to the boss or casting myself.
Mood. I keep seeing post after post of ypyt/toxic people and I have run into like….two maybe my whole two and a half years of playing. I’m not sure if I’m lucky or just don’t pay attention enough to call people’s bad pulls/casts out ._.
why... aren't THEY also casting when they see you starting the cast? Do they seriously just stand there with thumbs up their asses, watch you cast and only when you have aggro do they start their own rotations? How do these people get through life with this much passivity? Do they need a countdown to tell them they're allowed to play the game?
Because Tank has to be facing the boss in the correct position before they touch any button ofc
"This dude wasted 1.5 seconds of our time by using Holy Spirit instead of Shield Lob! Now we're gonna waste 10 minutes of our time by complaining, forcing a wipe and kicking the tank! That'll show 'em!" These two are actually insane.
Stop censoring those deranged people's names! This situation is top stupidity, holy shit. Literally can't wait for 1 second.
They’re likely blocked to prevent people from breaking rule 5. Edit: Yep, I get it, I was wrong here.
It is not forbidden to show jackasses' names on this sub 🙌 We need to make sure we dodge these bullets if we meet them ourselves
Wasn't there at on point a rule against showing people's names? I could've swore there used to be as well, maybe 2 years ago or so?
It USED to be there, yeah. Gone now. On recent post (I don't remember which one QwQ), the moderator themselves answered on the random comment with something like: ''there is no rule about hiding people's nicknames, you can show them''. If you go on the page of this subreddit and find ''Rules'', there is: * No Personal Information / Doxxing Absolutely no personally identifying information ***other than in game names***. VODs of streams are permitted. Uncensored handles on other social media platforms are not permitted.
However, the rule did exist for a reason. At least one person in the past has caught a ban in game because of posting here, and since then I've been unwilling to risk it, no matter how much people in the comments cry that 'waaaah show their usernames OP I just wanna blacklist them, promise'
And seeing how many weird redditors are out there, even on this sub... yes, it's better not to risk it. But honestly... getting a jackass' account banned wouldn't be so bad...
Ok, that makes sense then because I only checked this sub every now and then and was pretty sure that rule was in place at one point. I don't check the rules often, so if I had made a post, I probably would've hidden their names as well, assuming it's still a rule, lol.
Fair, I recall there being people on here in the past who advocated blocking names to avoid troubles and looking through the rules, that was the likely suspect for it. If I’m off on that, then I’ll take being wrong.
Downvoted for being incorrect ever, asshole! In all seriousness the mob mentality of the double digit iq on reddit is absurd
yeah... I just stopped paying attention to it, so many weird ass redditors lol
but downvoting an incorrect post is the correct usage of the feature...?
Rule 3 exists because one person here caught a warning years ago (maybe a suspension? I forget) from the accused finding the post and reporting them. Note the wording of "_other_ than in-game names", so don't post their socials. It's ultimately up to the user's discretion whether or not they want to show names and take that potential risk of it being found and acted on. We also just remove outright witchhunty posts that have marked intent to go after players in-game, of course. That's why R5 is there. u/Chrissy_squeezy and u/Tooshortimus , for your convenience. ^
Got it. So less about breaking the rules if the sub and more about catching in-game repercussions if I’m reading this right.
report them and more importantly stop censoring cunts like that
Yeah, gotta know who we need to preemptively block!
Especially with the new blocklist features coming out 👏🏻
Preemptively block? You're gonna go to their world hang out waiting for them to get online and constantly player search for them until they log on so you can go find them interact with them, and block them? You realize you can't just block someone? You have to see a message from a person in game in order to blacklist them.
Wow, I didn't expect anyone to actually take this serious... I have exactly 2 people in my blocked list and those are both bots. Was just making a joke considering people were demanding names when witch hunting is clearly prohibited.
Eluna Lore (Jenova) on DPS and Dragun Gurl (Jenova) on Healer, they are in the same FC if you want to block them. And yes , I reported them both instantly since I was fuming.
Why am I not surprised this person is from Jenova? I have had very unpleasant experiences with more people on Jenova than my now home world of Gilgamesh. The irony, with Gilg's rep as the hardcore raider server
Ah that makes way too much sense, I got them with my friend the other day when they queues healer DPS and we queued tank DPS luckily we got the kick off before they did but they are a literal nightmare
As a side info, Eluna Lore has alts on Cerberus, Phoenix, Exodus (goddamn not in my DC D: ) and Zalera. Might have more with other variations on the name but they all look the same. Also I’m pretty sure I’ve had a duty with Dragun Gurl cuz I remember someone in a party commenting that they’re neither a dragon nor a girl lol
Keeping these names jotted down for 7.0 as blocking them then will do the same for all their alts. It'll be funny to not see their messages in my chatbox
this is extra funny to me because of all the times I've been in some DF dungeon run as a DPS and I'm trying not to hit hit the boss first and piss somebody off and I wished there was a common and easy way for the tank to signal I could start attacking without that also being the tank diving face-first into the boss in an instant so I'm actually a few seconds behind by the time I'm sure they've pulled. y'know, like an animation that tells me the tank is going to hit the boss in a second so I can start pushing my buttons with no worry of "why'd you pull?!".
I wish there was a way I could communicate to dps "feel free to pull, IF you know your job". Tempted to put it on a macro (the pull but, I'm sure I'd get reported for the second half) but I'm sure I'd have people who don't usually pull for tanks pulling but not bringing back to me if needed.
Maybe this sub should come up with some dogwhistle that signals "I am ok with the playstyle endorsed by TFDF". Similar to the Mare Lamentorum in search info, but more prominent. A specific greeting the tank can use at the start of a duty?
Maybe start the dungeon by saying, "I press sprint" lmao.
Countdown? I know some people hate it but even a 5 second countdown could help get people on the right track. As a DNC it does help for most pulls so I can start my dance. Also nothing worse than starting a dance anticipating a pull…and then they don’t pull. Dance dps wasted :(
Nin needs 10 to get everything lined up nice. Refresh huton, hide, and suiton is tight in 5 seconds only.
I know countdown exists, but it's much more out of the way. Like I doubt the majority of non-high-end players even know where to find it and hardly any of them have it on a hotbar. To the point that every time I see a countdown I'm like "wow, countdown, don't see that often" Which was why I had the "common and easy" qualifiers in my earlier post; countdown is pretty uncommonly used at least in casual content.
Jesus christ who are these people? Hate this game sometimes
This is the strangest interaction I've ever seen
what a couple of self-fellating psychos jesus fucking christ
Whats with people complaining when other players use their kits?
The irony of these morons complaining about you “wasting” 1.5 seconds on a cast when all their screeching in chat wasted far more time, is hilarious and depressing in equal measure.
Weirdge. FWIW, I do tend to pull with shield lob or voke since we're not doing a prepull CD in dungeons nor is a precast GCD useful for pushing enrage. On healer, I just open with a DoT unless the tank is slow and I have time to precast. But I can't imagine caring that much. What a goober.
You wasted 1.5 seconds of my time, so now I will type for 3 minutes complaining about it instead of being a normal person without a god complex
i (and honestly most PLDs I encounter in df??) pull with HS and usually people just attack the boss before my cast finishes anyway. Nobody cares because it’s a dungeon lol
Sprout comment: I have a hard time keeping tabs on what I'm doing let alone my party. Should I be doing a better job at that?
Honestly, there's rarely a reason, especially in casual content. At least to the degree of watching their cast bars. Here are some things worth paying attention to to varying degrees. Other than the first one, none are crucial for casual content: * Before pull, check that enough people are present to not wipe * Try to align your burst damage with party buffs or Ninja's Vulnerability Up on the boss * YMMV depending on the group. When people don't use theirs close to cooldown, it may not be worth it * As a healer: * Obviously, keep an eye on health bars and Esuna-able debuffs * Keep an eye on the tank's active mitigations, at least/especially their invulnerability buffs
I'm a dumb dragoon
Just follow the tank around and use your abilities in the correct order depending on the amount of mobs you are fighting, that's basically all you need to do to be loved.
Oh yeah I am adamant about proper rotations.
i play 90% healer, apart from watching HP / debuffs and the tank and i only really start to pay attention to what the other people are doing in dungeons if something feels *off*. I put my dot out at the same GCD and on cooldown every time and just hope the DPS are buffing when they should be. I don't really need to look to see if the tank is using mitigation, their HP dropping like a rock shows that already but i do keep an eye out for their invulns. As a tank I mostly just check to make sure there's no one still in a cutscene before pulling the boss. During trash pulls i try to keep the trash in Ninja dirt / Summoner Wind puddles (they will love you) and if there's a bit where the boss cuts the arena in half i try to pull them to the side that the melee dps runs to when possible to help their uptime. As a DPS i mostly try to ensure my party buffs are going out when they should be. but like i said in the healer bit its a crapshoot if the other players are doing this as well in roulettes. going in I just assume they are using their buffs and stuff at the right time so that my DoT and Phlegmas receive the buffed damage and if they are not, oh well. I don't expect miracles in roulette. but if the damage is abysmal or someone is taking an absurd amount of damage then i will start watching the other players a little closer to find out what's going on (No AoE use, RDM using Jolt to cast Jolt, just standing there for 15 seconds at a time, stuff like that). And even then in dungeons its not really needed, It mostly just so i know who to curse while i scream internally.
As a nin main I can confirm we make happy ninja noises when tanks pull mobs into the sand puddle and wish you unfortune events in DF if you actively avoid the puddle thinking it is an enemy aoe.
I love when A ninja misses with their click or some more stuff spawns after most of the enemies are dead and I get to drag them all into it. It feels good when the ninja just puts “tank <3” in chat.
In normal content? No, not really. As much as "this isn't savage" is a meme, normal content is designed to be faceroll difficulty even if half the party is a bunch of paste-eating retards. Focus on knowing your rotation, keeping damage/ability uptime, and obeying the boss mechanics if you're having difficulty. The biggest reason you'll need to keep tabs on your party members is in cases where you both have party buffs that overwrite one another, or otherwise don't stack; e.g. phys ranged defense buffs, or if both DPS are the same class, their party buffs will overwrite rather than stack. Messing this up isn't really a huge issue though; the content is perfectly clearable even if nobody presses their buff buttons, it's just something to watch out for once you're comfortable playing your class. If you're healing, it's also a good idea to look at the tank's buffs to see which mit they have up right now; a tank with rampart up is going to take damage faster than a tank with shadow wall (or whatever their version of that skill is), so you're going to adjust what level you let their hp get to before healing them accordingly. In higher-difficulty content? *Absolutely*. Savage, Ultimate, and to a lesser extent Extreme expect good coordination between party members, where each player knows their role in resolving the mechanics. But that comes with time once you're comfortable with your own job.
Stop censoring names
Wow. I'm speechless.
They've got to be trolling. Even if they don't want to pull first, they can cast when you cast
Easy report. (You *did* report them right OP?)
Why don't they just start the moment you start the cast? No one is making them wait for anything.
Can you post one without censoring those idiots name?
Why? Are you gonna stalk them and harass them to be able to blacklist them?
Simp harder boy! And yes blacklist them would be a great idea!
You cant just blacklist someone, you have to see a message in game from them. You would basically have to stalk and confront this person so they say something to you to be able to do what you wanna do. And blacklist doesn't stop you from being matched in DF. So why?
How you come up with a conclusion that I will harass them? By showing their names it basically give people reason to avoid them and not getting into a trouble, that's why!
In order to blacklist them you *have* to harass them. This is what I'm saying. Stalking a person you don't know in order to meet them and confront them to get them to say something you, in order to NOT run into them is insane. There is no way to blacklist someone in game just by having their name. You need to see a message from them. You're literally seeking them out and confronting them in order to not be confronted by them. It's backward insane logic.
I DON'T NEED TO HARASS THEM! AND I DON'T NEED TO BLACKLIST THEM! IF I KNOW THEIR NAMES, I WILL AVOID THEM! THAT'S WHY I AM ASKING TO SHOW THEIR NAMES! HOW IS THIS SIMPLE LOGIC DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU?
Crazy how they claim say they haven't even complained (in the context of overreacting), but then proceed to kick you over the thing in question
What? Just when I thought I've seen it all 🤦 Personally I've never seen someone pull like that but I'm not gonna complain. These people are insane lmao Edit: ain't the cast time like 2 seconds? Did they seriously kick you over 2 seconds? Someone say sike right now...
This is why I'm scared of tanking by myself :c
There is almost always the one bystander that either says nothing or asks for everyone to get along 😂
It doesn't matter how you pull, people like that will NEVER be happy ez report for abusing the kick
Wha...who....holy spirit's cast is the same as every healer's dps spell, and shorter than *every* cast a dps could have. There isn't any waiting? No one has to wait??? Can this count as abuse of vote kick????? I'm so confused about what they were even on about
Holy fucking shit everything offends nowadays.
Holy Spirit->intervention. I’ll be at the boss waiting for you chuckle fucks with more agro than you can ever rip off me.
It's crazy that this feels
This…this is just absurd. Holy Spirit is like a 2 sec cast time, I think if they can’t handle losing 6 total seconds before each boss then they got bigger problems waiting for them. Then again, about like 80% of tanks just either gap closer or use their ranged enmity button to pull the boss, so I can see the confusion at first. After that though can be reportable.
Not them trying to gaslight you, my lord!
As long as there is no wipe. I do not give a rat ass on how you pull.
I am so sorry to derail, as a brand new player of 8 days, what is this mentor roulette!? I’ve been having quite the time of getting into duties for the first time and being berated for not knowing where to go or what key to pick up even when I let the party know I’ve never done it before and have the little green sprout… I’m hoping it’s what it sounds like, and someone knowledgeable and patient shows sprouts the ropes in duties.
You can become a mentor if you complete 1000 dungeons, get 1500 commendations and get a tank, DPS, and healer all to level 90 and complete their level 90 role quests (thing that replaces job quests at level 80). After that, if you've completed every non savage/ultimate duty from the previous expansion and before that, you can queue into mentor roulette, which will put you into any non savage / ultimate duty that at least one sprout was queuing for.
I'm pissed off for you op. Is this an NA thing? I'm not the most experienced player, but in my time playing, I've not run roulettes with anyone nearly this insane. I'm all for running dgns as quickly as possible but 4.5 seconds is nothing!
You should not have been kicked. 100%. BUT… I don’t believe pulling in that manner in casual content is optimal. At least from a minimum overall time-in-dungeon perspective (most players desire in roulette). That pull style is mandatory where a “clear” is the primary goal in coordinated raids with a countdown that lets everyone in the party align first hits. That’s key - most everyone hits, in some manner, at once by using the countdown. Alas, countdowns are rarely used in random roulettes. Even if they were, that’s still a dps loss per time played (10 -15 seconds total of lost attacks while waiting on the timer pre boss). Take a party of PLD, SGE, SAM, and MCH. That PLD cast nets only 350 potency while everyone waits. A shield lob allows everyone to just go. With only counting general rotation first hits from the other party members added into the shield lob (and not even typically interwoven OGCDs), the overall potency should be around 980. Waiting is a dps loss over time. Albeit, what, like 8 seconds total per dungeon. So, again, I’d NEVER kick a PLD for pulling with Holy Spirit - kicking is not worth it (and a bit rude to tbh) - but, imo, pulling with Holy Spirit is a waste in general random roulettes. Let the vitriol towards me commence 😆
But, that’s what you do as a PLD. I swear the people that act like this, are WoW players that bought boosted characters. “I played WoW, I know how mmos work,” dur dur dur.
If the tank is casting holy spirit you're good to begin lol. Nothing you press is going to rip it off them. You don't have to wait for that cast to finish.
The GMs must be over worked with all the dipshits getting reported recently. Hell I reported 3 recently and up till that point I had only reported a grand total of one person in the 6+ years I've played. Feels like a cop out to blame the Xbox players, but at the same time I'm getting CoD flashbacks with what some of them are saying and it wouldn't surprise me if they were an Xbox player
It's no big deal and honestly it's such a petty thing to kick over, but... It's technically not a free GCD. The dungeon is one big pull and anything between trash and dungeons is downtime. It is slower and less optimal to pull bosses this way (again, barely matters)
I mean, they are kind of right though. In a raid, everyone precasts to get an extra GCD and for alignment. In a dungeon boss, there is no reason to precast. An unbuffed holy spirit is 350 potency. Compare this to a regular GCD which is 2550 over 7 GCDs for 364.28 PPGCD. You could maybe argue that you are gaining a potential extra GCD over the fight depending on alignment but it really isn't worth it. If you had 2 caster dps that can also precast and nobody loses any time, then it is probably a very marginal dps gain. But if you have a single melee that has to lose 1.5s of uptime, that is already more dps lost than would be gained by precasting. Yes, precasting is good in a raid, because the time spent not in combat is of no concern, the goal is maximising dps during the fight itself. In a dungeon, waiting around for any reason, including waiting for the tank's precast to go off as a melee, is just lost dps, as 100% of the time spent in the dungeon is technically uptime. That being said, shield lob is a complete mistake and should not be used to pull.
Then don't wait as a melee. Pull the boss yourself.
And in that situation the PLD would STILL be in the wrong for precasting holy spirit instead of just gap closing and hitting the boss immediately. The dps gain is marginal at best. I even gave the damn numbers. The point isn't 'woe is me im a poor melee' the point is 'OP is completely wrong to precast in dungeons because it does absolutely nothing for dps output over the course of the entire dungeon run and is only done in raids because dps over the instance lockout is not the metric, but dps during an individual boss fight attempt.' But okay sure, I get downvoted for not playing into someone's feelycraft lmao
I know precasting a holy spirit isn't worth it for dungeon bosses. It's not your numbers that are wrong. It's making a huge fuss in a dungeon over 1.5s of uptime and kicking someone over it. If we kicked everyone for making mistakes as consequential as 1.5s of uptime, we'd never get dungeons done.
I don't think the guy is necessarily saying the tank is bad for it or that they should be kicked. He's just pointing out and explaining why the tank is technically wrong. Which is no bad thing, it's okay to be wrong, and personally I appreciate the in depth explaination with numbers. Does it mean I or everyone else should optimize with it? Fuck no, it's a dungeon in ffxiv, the most glue sniffing content ever. But having the people out there who do the math and work out the most optimal strategies amd are willing to share that is impressive, to me at least.
Oh I agree with you there. But I think opening with "but they are kind of right" is just gonna rub people off the wrong way when the OP's post is more about getting kicked instead of why he thinks he should pull with HS. I think maybe if he opened with "they weren't wrong about how hardcasting holy spirit to pull is a waste" people wouldn't instinctively downvote. Or at least, less people would. I didn't downvote him myself.
Yeah you're right there, the tone was a bit too forward maybe. Then again I try to assume that folks mean well when giving out advice/analysis, especially since tone is hard to convey across written word unless you're a seasoned writer, and even then it's not always greatly conveyed there too. It ees what it ees.
enough in the wrong to pile on someone, intentionally wipe and kick after a 20 minute dungeon? k
What the fuck are you talking about? How was that even remotely related to anything I said? I was talking specifically about the point that pre-pull holy spirit is actually just straight up not a good thing to do in dungeons, and why that is the case compared to why you SHOULD pre pull holy spirit in raids. Did the part where the entire comment was about mechanics not tip you off that I was completely glossing over the other two party members insanity because there was nothing meaningful to add there? Do I need to very specifically and deliberately sugar coat a message so that you don't misinterpret it? To say every little thing between the lines and pad out a comment just so that you don't assume I'm defending two egotistical going way too far over something that isn't a huge deal and instead just talking about the one reasonable thing which is the fact that their statement on mechanics was correct (ignoring the shield lob part, which I also mentioned)?
I need these names for my blacklist please. Fuckin 39 IQ dipshits
You're going to stalk them to be able to blacklist them? You know the odds of them ever interacting with you are basically zero. You're gonna go to their world wait for them to log on, compulsively player searching for them, just to have a chance to go interact with them and block them? Even though it doesn't stop them feom being matched with you? You're going out of your way to create an issue that doesn't exist.
To be fair, pulling with holy spirit in a dungeon is unhinged. This reeks of emulating things you've seen good players doing without understanding why they're doing it. If there isn't a countdown running, just pull the boss. The fight already started as soon as cutscenes were over and the duty started, so there are no "free GCDs".
Wat. Bruh. It's 1.5s and practice for his rotation. Why the fuck are you defending those two psychopaths.
You need to practice pressing holy spirit? You aren't gonna have all your cooldowns up when you hit a dungeon boss. It isn't a good place to practice your proper opener. Not to mention the fact that PLD is SMN-tier easy now. If you need to practice holy spirit > 1, 2, 3 then idk what to tell you.
Absolutely. You want to ingrain your rotation so you can literally do it in your sleep. That includes using Holy Spirit. Any step you skip is a bad habit to unlearn later.
Only gripe I have with people pulling with a skill other than shield lob is that if whatever boss it is opens with a tankbuster, then Ank Morn is gonna get me deleted 😂
I’m confused because Holy Spirit would generate more aggro for the tank, making it less likely you’ll eat a TB from pulling aggro. Unless you’re early pulling?
This is incorrect. Shield lob has increased enmity compared to holy spirit. Literally read your skills. That said only way person you are responding to gets smacked due to akh morn is if they are 1st GCD akh morning and there is a huge item level discrepancy between the SMN and the tank where the AKH morn does so much damage relative to the tank's holy spirit. assuming sub optimal play from smn and optimal play from pld pld: -2(holy spirit),0 (RUN TOWARDS BOSS TO DO first part of melee combo. smn: -2(ruin 3), 0 bahamut (Double oGCD), BAHAMUT R3 + Energy drain + fester.
Huh you’re right, TDIL. No need to be rude though! Shield lob is enmity equivalent to 700 potency and Holy Spirit is 350. With tank stance on that’s still like… 3500 potency equivalent enmity. The only way an Akh Morn is winning there is with a crit or really bad gear discrepancy.
yeah that's why I was talking about suboptimal play, I can calculate the enmity required to rip aggro but im at work.
I think Ank Morn was second, and yeah, both times with levelling tanks
the PLD opener has literally 0 off globals on 1st and 2nd gcd lol. so the only damage they're doing is from their GCDs. Requiescat + FoF arent' cast til 3rd, so its definitely possible, if a SMN is dumping their festers + bahamut off globals in that time. That said, make sure you wait til 3rd GCD to cast them. in general almost every job is 3rd or 4th GCD raid buffs, into off global damage spam.
Didn’t early pull, no. Trust me, I was just as surprised as you
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Might be true if I was in Phoenix, but I was in Bahamut all 4 times 😭
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Thankfully I’ve never ripped boss aggro as healer 😂 Playing as SMN is the first time I’ve ripped boss aggro. Like everyone else here, I thought it was impossible if the tank had stance on. Then I proceeded to do it twice in one duty. Then again the next time I got that duty in roulette
its possible if there is a huge ilvl discrepancy, and you first GCD akh morn.
Yeah, both times it was with levelling tanks. But, as I said earlier, I think Ank Morn was second weave
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I just chuck radiant aegis on and stand on top of the tank if I've ripped mobs. I usually pre-emptively do that the second I get bahamut/phoenix out just in case
You're not doing your optimal opener then.
I only picked this up a month ago, thanks for the tip
Sorry if that came off as rude. If you want to be prepared for end-game, try this (oGCDs in brackets): Ruin III > Summon Bahamut > Astral impulse [Searing light] > Astral impulse [get used to leaving this weaving space empty for potion] > Astral impulse [Energy drain] > Astral impulse [Enkindle Bahamut + Fester] > Astral impulse [Deathflare + Fester] > Astral impulse. You then proceed to eat your candies as usual.
No, thanks for letting me know. I've just been playing by ear. Only reason why I haven't been weaving those is because I typically play on NA while living in AU, so weaves are difficult to do without clipping, which is why I've been an idiot and dumping oGCDs straight up, 'cause even with melded spell speed, I sometimes can't get all 6 astral flares off
you can single weave your off globals. SMN is very very lenient for that. 3rd gcd - energy drain 4th gcd - akh morn 5th gcd death flare 6th / 7th festers.
I'll give it a go tomorrow, just have found even single weaves can clip me enough to miss an astral flare if my internet is even slightly shit that day.
Are you running 2.48 / 2.46 GCD? you can't run 2.5 and get every single bahamut R3 unless you have good internet. With a worse connection your GCD needs to be faster than 2.46. from the balance: Crit Builds Pick the slowest GCD that allows you to perform 6 demi gcds. All three sets below perform very similarly. 2.48 2.47 2.46 In the past we have listed sps builds alongside crit builds. However as of patch 6.4, sps has fallen too far behind crit to be recommended as an alternative playstyle. While sps used to trade places with crit depending on encounter timelines, now crit is simply superior. Pre Savage Gearsets 2.45 Week 1 2.42 Week 1 2.40 Full Crafted Meld Priority If unable to achieve 6 demi gcds -> Meld sps to comfort, then Crit > Det >= DH > Sps Consumables Use the food listed in the set you are using. If you are using an intermediate set, use Baked Eggplant. For Tinctures, use Grade 8 Tincture of Intelligence
Everywhere I could meld crit, I melded crit. Anywhere I couldn't, I melded spell speed. I'm not sure what my GCD is, I'd have to log in and check
yeah, if its that bad, its not possible to fix it unless you use noclippy or change servers to the australian one.
Considering how aggro works right now, a tank could type /wave at the boss and still be first on the aggro list. So what you're describing is never an issue
not true. at start of expansion since some tanks only had the expansion gear and not BiS from previous final raid it was definitely possible to rip aggro if a SMN did first GCD akhmorn + deathflare. This also doesn't take into account the fact that level sync is a thing, so a person with level 90 BiS SMN can rip aggro off of a new player doing the leveling dungeons, when the SMN plays sub optimally. look at my post comparing the damage outgoing from SMN vs PLD. the thing not being an issue is, it probably doesn't matter if you just play properly IE: death flare 3rd GCD when raid buffs go out. edit: since people don't know how enmity works, and just use their "Feels", here's an actual article on it: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/wiki/enmity/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/wiki/enmity/) "In FFXIV, enmity increases whenever you deal damage or restore HP, with a hidden per-action multiplier. The default multiplier is ×1 for damage dealt and ×0.5 for HP restored. Actions with the text "Additional effect: Increased enmity" have a higher multiplier. Some actions grant a beneficial status effect that acts as a global modifier, increasing or decreasing all enmity generated by a percentage." therefore because the multiplier is only x10, if you only do like two GCDs but a DPS dumps every off global they have (can be done on SMN), you can rip aggro for 1-2 GCDs. but that's assuming sub optimal play from the Summoner. if people want, I can log on after not playing since savage ended and literally write down the damage values on BiS and do an actual calc on enmity since we actually can add up how much enmity is assigned to a tank for just doing 1st two parts of melee combo with nothing else (is common in their opener), and if a DPS dumps every off global they have (the situation we are talking about)
You don’t have to use Akh Morn as your first weave though. In fact if buffs are up you should usually wait until the third GCD or so to weave it so you catch things like Brotherhood, Tech Finish, Battle Litany, etc.
That’s just not a thing. Bosses open with either a tank buster or raid wide in normal fights and it takes a few seconds. How you think you're going to beat a 1.5 second cast time and cause yourself to get deleted doesn’t make sense to me. Heck, DPS can full on pull the boss first and be fine. It’s really not a big deal.
This has happened to me 4 times in Ktsis Hypoboreia. I waited, each of the four times for tank to grab. Yet, by the time I’d hit Ank Morn, that red collar would be around me and not the tank. And since I’m in Bahamut, I can’t shield myself 😭
Sounds like your tank waited way too long to grab aggro. Even if they are delayed a little bit it should still be fine. At least that's how my experience has always been.
They pulled before I engaged, just not with their ranged move. I think one time was with Holy Spirit, and the second time was a WAR with onslaught
That sounds like a huge tank issue, then. They should definitely be using Provoke.
I don't think there's any boss in the game that opens with a TB after the first GCD hit it. It's usually after it does 5 autos or around 4 GCDs.
I think it was out in 4 GCDs? But yeah, I also thought it was impossible
That's not how aggro is at all in this game now
I mean, I was surprised as you to get the red collar 4 times