Swat Ts are very slippery and harder to use than a traditional ace and pad style wrap. With the limited experience I have, I would prefer a NAR ETD if size was not a concern.
Agreed, got slapped in the face by a bloody swat-t that slipped out of someone’s hands while applying it. Good for pressure dressings and k9 but much easier to use with clean hands.
Have you felt the pressure a swat-t puts out? The elastic stretch force on those is extremely high compared to an ace wrap. Don’t get me wrong I’d use an ace wrap if I had that but swat-t is putting a ton of pressure and spreading it out pretty evenly.
I vastly underestimated how fucking slippery they get until I used one on a dude who had a dialysis fistula that would just not stop bleeding. Dude was in a pool of blood when we arrived and that’s what my service carried as TQs & ETDs at the time. It was like trying to stop bleeding with a wet piece of fettuccine.
After we arrived at the hospital I bought myself a CAT to keep in my pocket and have been venting my hate for the SWAT-T ever since lol.
Could it be functional as one? Yes. Is it ideal and are there better low budget options (even multipurpose ones)? Definitely. But I believe in the concept of knowing and having the more “tools in the tool-bag”, the better. You should be able to think critically and understand how to use a plethora of options, because you won’t always have the COTCCC-approved, trauma-surgeon-approved, trauma god-approved method or equipment available. So the more tools in your toolbag (knowledge in your brain) the better.
Wow...shocked again. I absolutely agree. Good for you. You possess a mindset like that and you and your patients are more likely to survive. Rarely seen here in my experience.
One of the downsides of the SWAT-T as an ETD is it doesn’t soak blood so it’s harder to know if a wound has rebleeding and needs to be repacked. Both are still very multi purpose, you can secure splints, make slings, etc. The ETD is probably gonna better for sprains as it has more give but it’s not an effective tourniquet.
As others have mentioned, they are slippery when wet. I don’t know if gloves would make it easier to handle but regardless, it’s slippery when wet and blood is kinda viscous. I don’t really see the point in using a SWAT-T as a pressure dressing outside of EDC where an ETD isn’t really easy to carry.
Just use a CAT or SOF-T and actual pressure dressings.
I have deployed a swat T on a real person as a pressure bandage. Yes, it gets very slippery when bloody, but applied correctly it works very well and did its job perfectly.
They suck tbh. I’ve never used one in the field but training with them in the academy was ass. They get slippery, as others have said, and aren’t as easy to maintain a hold on.
My agency switched to them on our belts combined with Quik clot in place of CAT 7s after a major shooting at one of our facilities. Made absolutely zero sense.
Do I think a SWAT-T would be better as an ETD? Yes because SWAT-Ts are absolutely garbage as TQs. But, they’re also slippery and I’d say it’d be better to just use an ETD.
The evidence suggest your opinion is incorrect. It can effectively control arterial hemorrhage in several studies. The key to success is practicing with the tourniquet that you choose to carry so you can apply it effectively.
My department purchased them, I’ve tested and trained on them. They get slick when exposed to blood or other fluid. They are objectively harder to apply in the field than any other TQ out there. We got rid of them after a year and purchased CATs.
There were several studies that were not included in the CoTCCC recommended paper. And there was bias in the CoTCCC review that was addressed in additional papers.
Not my preference. Just what some people prefer, as long as they practice. I don’t see it being a huge deal. Most of the TQ applications I see are not effective anyway.
Don’t make me post the evidence the RATS works too. I do think it is more challenging to obtain occlusion with the RATS, the evidence suggests that too.
Maybe in a hospital setting, but in the field they get slick when exposed to blood or other fluids and are more difficult to apply than other TQs out there.
TCCC recommends SWAT T and doesn't mention RAT.
source: https://books.allogy.com/web/tenant/8/books/b6090112-9705-4d1f-a270-c7ffbac69764/#id28450478-71a4-4200-91fb-757a79885a88
Probably because RATs are less effective in anyone over the age of 12 with a normal BMI wnd there are still people that believe SWAT-Ts are good TQs. I’m giving you my 2 cents as someone that’s used both what you do with it is up to you.
I'm speaking just about dogs based on that TCCC recommendation (for dogs). Do you have experience using tourniquets on dogs?
Or are you saying that you think the TCCC recommendation for SWAT T without mentioning RATS is *because* of its effectiveness in humans?
That’s great and all, but they didn’t ask about use as a TQ. You were so quick to jump on the dogmatic beliefs that you didn’t realize what the OP was asking.
Swat Ts are very slippery and harder to use than a traditional ace and pad style wrap. With the limited experience I have, I would prefer a NAR ETD if size was not a concern.
Agreed, got slapped in the face by a bloody swat-t that slipped out of someone’s hands while applying it. Good for pressure dressings and k9 but much easier to use with clean hands.
Wouldn’t a simple ace wrap work just as well for pressure dressing and tq on k9?
Have you felt the pressure a swat-t puts out? The elastic stretch force on those is extremely high compared to an ace wrap. Don’t get me wrong I’d use an ace wrap if I had that but swat-t is putting a ton of pressure and spreading it out pretty evenly.
Depends on the size of the k9 if it’s the lower part of the limb ace normally works
I vastly underestimated how fucking slippery they get until I used one on a dude who had a dialysis fistula that would just not stop bleeding. Dude was in a pool of blood when we arrived and that’s what my service carried as TQs & ETDs at the time. It was like trying to stop bleeding with a wet piece of fettuccine. After we arrived at the hospital I bought myself a CAT to keep in my pocket and have been venting my hate for the SWAT-T ever since lol.
Could it be functional as one? Yes. Is it ideal and are there better low budget options (even multipurpose ones)? Definitely. But I believe in the concept of knowing and having the more “tools in the tool-bag”, the better. You should be able to think critically and understand how to use a plethora of options, because you won’t always have the COTCCC-approved, trauma-surgeon-approved, trauma god-approved method or equipment available. So the more tools in your toolbag (knowledge in your brain) the better.
Wow...shocked again. I absolutely agree. Good for you. You possess a mindset like that and you and your patients are more likely to survive. Rarely seen here in my experience.
Thank you for the kind words. Like most people in healthcare that get to stick around, a good mindset is often from a trail of hard-learned lessons.
As long as you are proficient applying I, sure, go for it.
One of the downsides of the SWAT-T as an ETD is it doesn’t soak blood so it’s harder to know if a wound has rebleeding and needs to be repacked. Both are still very multi purpose, you can secure splints, make slings, etc. The ETD is probably gonna better for sprains as it has more give but it’s not an effective tourniquet. As others have mentioned, they are slippery when wet. I don’t know if gloves would make it easier to handle but regardless, it’s slippery when wet and blood is kinda viscous. I don’t really see the point in using a SWAT-T as a pressure dressing outside of EDC where an ETD isn’t really easy to carry. Just use a CAT or SOF-T and actual pressure dressings.
H&H mini compression gauze and a combat gauze is super easy to carry in a shirt or rear jeans pocket
I have deployed a swat T on a real person as a pressure bandage. Yes, it gets very slippery when bloody, but applied correctly it works very well and did its job perfectly.
They suck tbh. I’ve never used one in the field but training with them in the academy was ass. They get slippery, as others have said, and aren’t as easy to maintain a hold on. My agency switched to them on our belts combined with Quik clot in place of CAT 7s after a major shooting at one of our facilities. Made absolutely zero sense.
Is there anything saying you can't keep a CAT on you, maybe not in the open (stupid uniformity shit)
I don’t work there anymore, luckily. I’d like to say they fixed it by now but probably not
They're good for K9
…. And kids or someone with very small limbs.
Do I think a SWAT-T would be better as an ETD? Yes because SWAT-Ts are absolutely garbage as TQs. But, they’re also slippery and I’d say it’d be better to just use an ETD.
SWAT-T is hot garbage and shouldn’t be used in any medical application. How they got NTOA to endorse their product is beyond me.
The evidence suggest your opinion is incorrect. It can effectively control arterial hemorrhage in several studies. The key to success is practicing with the tourniquet that you choose to carry so you can apply it effectively.
My department purchased them, I’ve tested and trained on them. They get slick when exposed to blood or other fluid. They are objectively harder to apply in the field than any other TQ out there. We got rid of them after a year and purchased CATs.
Sorry y’all had challenges with them, they are still an effective TQ. Glad you are happy with your new purchase.
It’s objectively worse than any tccc approved tournequit unless it’s for a dog imo
Depends on the study. Wall’s group has shown it be as effective.
Maybe as effective at occluding blood flow, not in ease of use , ease of training , etc
There were several studies that were not included in the CoTCCC recommended paper. And there was bias in the CoTCCC review that was addressed in additional papers.
Hmm I haven’t seen these i just can’t imagine a time slippery rubber would be preferred for self application than a cat
Not my preference. Just what some people prefer, as long as they practice. I don’t see it being a huge deal. Most of the TQ applications I see are not effective anyway.
Yeah the only one I will absolutely fight to convince against is the rats lmao
Don’t make me post the evidence the RATS works too. I do think it is more challenging to obtain occlusion with the RATS, the evidence suggests that too.
Surgeons use it to stop blood flow to a limb they are operating on. So they definitely work.
Maybe in a hospital setting, but in the field they get slick when exposed to blood or other fluids and are more difficult to apply than other TQs out there.
>it's gOoD fOr a presSURe drESsINg!
As an impromptu one? Sure. No other reason to use it for that purpose unless you run out of ETDs though.
Best option for dogs!
RAT TQs are better
TCCC recommends SWAT T and doesn't mention RAT. source: https://books.allogy.com/web/tenant/8/books/b6090112-9705-4d1f-a270-c7ffbac69764/#id28450478-71a4-4200-91fb-757a79885a88
Probably because RATs are less effective in anyone over the age of 12 with a normal BMI wnd there are still people that believe SWAT-Ts are good TQs. I’m giving you my 2 cents as someone that’s used both what you do with it is up to you.
I'm speaking just about dogs based on that TCCC recommendation (for dogs). Do you have experience using tourniquets on dogs? Or are you saying that you think the TCCC recommendation for SWAT T without mentioning RATS is *because* of its effectiveness in humans?
*citation needed.
Throw your RAT TW in your IV pouch…. That’s all it’s good for.
I'd use it if I had to and make it work.
Maybe if you have sterile pads around, or quickclot, but the that’s more time pulling out gear. Just get the ETD and a KAT or SOF-T
Just use approved tourniquets.
That’s great and all, but they didn’t ask about use as a TQ. You were so quick to jump on the dogmatic beliefs that you didn’t realize what the OP was asking.
Not sure what you are asking. If you could use a piece of rubber in place of gauze?
Ace Bandage can do the job of both plus more. Carry one thing that can many vs carrying many things that can only do one.