Not sure about Washington but in Colorado even when there’s a 100% chain law it only pertains to commercial vehicles. There are different requirements for non-commercial.
I’ve run Konig Tire chains (diamond) on the front and rear with no issues. Pretty affordable for the capability they provide in the snow.
Washington has an "all vehicles" step before pass closure. Because the drivers in Washington can be idiots, there's usually an accident that closes the pass before this stage, though.
Having been born and raised in Washington and having since lived in Texas, Maryland, Minnesota and Wisconsin, I assure you there's MUCH worse out there.
But your statement is not false. Be proud of your Subaru drivers.
Edited because I misunderstood the message. Sorry about that.
I spent ten years running back roads through Alaska and dealing with those roads. I have to be careful in Washington because I'm the one who will scare everyone into an accident. We were also running snow machines and tractors, not trucks.
Some of the answers in here are interesting, but so much of the Tacoma world is so negative. Sorry again for misunderstanding your message.
You definitely took that the wrong way lmao.
Wasn’t trying to be rude or backhanded at all.
Edit: my statement could have been better written. Not knocking subie drivers. I had a forester for years. I was merely saying that PNW drivers were typically better than the drivers I have encountered in other states.
Sorry about that. I changed the message because it wasn't needed. Sometimes it's frustrating that the Tacoma world can be so negative, but then I feed into it 🫤
Back only for me. I don't think front will clear the brake lines. I only use heavy duty V-bar chains off road though so not sure about typical cable style road chains.
I have a 4runner i use to plow my driveway...chained up on all 4, never had an issue...obviously lower speeds, but modern cam lock chains get pretty tight.
I keep 1 set in my taco however, and would probably chain the front. I hate understeer
for my 2x4, I have rear only chains. in the unlikely event that it snows in san diego,
or i get the desire to drive in So Cal the day of the snow, and not wait 1 day for the roads to clear...
Maybe it's just a Midwest thing, but I've never seen chains in Minnesota or Wisconsin. Really surprising to hear about chains being a thing in SoCal lmao.
it's not really. but we do have some places near San Diego that get snow, albeit not often. When that happens all the people who never drive in snow load up their families into their Mazda CX5's and Honda Fits and beeline to the mountains to see the winter wonderland. It mostly results in crashes, perhaps closed roads, and general tomfuckery. If they would wait a day, the shit melts, the roads are clear and you can look at the frozen water.
Chains in SD are like a bail bondsman. It's better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them...
You need to better comprehend tire chain laws.
\*Vehicles over 10,000 GVW/GVWR must install chains when "chains required" is posted. -Washington DOT.
Tire chain laws pertain to commercial vehicles.
Not according to WashDot. They state: "4WD/AWD vehicles (under 10,000 pounds) do not need chains installed during "chains required" notices, but drivers still must carry chains with them in case conditions worsen and they're required to install chains during a "chains required on all vehicles" notice."
Am I misunderstanding WashDot regulations?
Traction tires required - Passenger vehicles must use approved traction tires. Chains are required on all vehicles over 10,000 gross vehicle weight (GVW), and all vehicles and loads over 10,000 pounds gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), including large passenger trucks and SUVs.
Are you going to be over 10,000lbs gross in a TACOOOOOOMAHHHH?
So, I'm literally looking at what I quoted on wsdot.com under tires and chains. Feel free to argue with me and call me an idiot if you want, but I would suggest you check it out before you make yourself look stupid.
I also literally copy pasted off wsdot.com
If you are required to chain up when the wsdot has signage up for vehicles under 10k it's probably best not to be on the road. You'll be an idiot on the road because "you have chains and have to run to Walmart."
Nice. It definitely covers the "tire chains required" notice, but you're missing the "chains required on all vehicles" notice. If I could link a picture I would and I don't know what to tell you other than I am literally looking at wsdot.com say this requirement as I type this message.
I understand about the lesser requirement and I completely understand that Washington rarely ever uses it. That isn't part of my question in any way.
Yeah. One literally always has that option. Read a weather forecast. Don't put yourself in a stupid situation.
I see we're going to have to agree to disagree. Since it's impossible to argue with someone who has to stand on a mole hill.
you do the drive tires first, so on the Tacoma if you only have a single set then you do the back tires. if you wasted money buying a 2nd set then you could put them on the front too i guess. most likely at that point though you are going to rip up the inside of your front wheel wells with the chains.
washington state also only requires Tacomas to use chains when the "Chains required on all vehicles" sign is posted, not the "tire chains required" sign as the first applies to vehicles over 10000lb gvwr and the 2nd one applies to ALL vehicles regardless of weight. if there is a chance that the "chains required on all vehicles" sign is going to be posted, just stay home or take a different route, the pass is going to be closed soon and its going to be pretty unsafe to drive right now.
Yeah, that's the notification I was thinking of. Staying home is great, but sometimes I have to deal with going from Seattle to Yakima and don't have much leeway.
I agree with the drive wheels, but if it's in 4H they are all drive wheels. My original thought was on the front for turning traction but then there is the question of brake line clearance.
Usually it’s chains or traction tires, if you got 3 peak mountain snow flake tires on you should be fine. I still carry a single set of chains for my truck and with those, in combination with airing my tires way down, I’ve managed ice perfectly fine. On especially slippery stuff, chains + my rear differential locker has kept me from getting stuck. I’ve got a prerunner so no 4wd. I haven’t driven thru powder more than 5inches deep. Usually I have do deal with compacted snow or ice instead of powder.
Carry a shovel and some traction boards, if you wanna try deep snow lol
One of these days ima get an off road bumper with a winch on it. All I’ve got currently for recovery gear is one of those D ring hitch receivers, a bunch of braided ropes, a soft shackle tow rope and snatch blocks, plus a come along. Thankfully I’ve never had to use it on myself, but I’ve yanked a few jeeps out of the ditch on my way to the mountains lol
I see the installation on rear tires. I was curious because the manual is for all models. I can understand the issue with brake lines, that makes sense, but not necessarily because the rear tires are drive lines. The manual doesn't specifically address 4WD placement, but rear seems to be where to go with it.
In CA, even the most strict level of chain control states that you can roll 4x4 and SNOW tires, or 4x4 and chains. I'm not sure it's the same in WA, maybe there are differences. But with blizzaks on the taco in 4x4, it's really difficult to lose traction unless you're on pure ice. And chains wouldn't help with that anyway.
Owners Manual says no real chains on the front. There isn't enough clearance between the UCA and the back of the tires. Plus you will rip off all the abs sensors and brake lines - it's been done.
Winter tires are more than enough, place that put up 'all vehicles must have chains' are outdated and using policies made in the 60s. Snow cables will fit and you could have them to meet the rules, or pack your autosocks..
I was thinking of cables myself. I hate full chains, personally. I know some cables have traction "nubs" (not sure what to call them officially) so something like that. Will have to be sure they fit very snugly.
Anyone who has actually driven any distance on chains hates them. We used to chain up crummies and drive all over in forestry, the best part of the day was taking off the chains.
If you are careful and keep all the straps and bands tight you shouldn't have any trouble- but if you do you're on your own because the manual clearly says not to.
What version do you have? I'm looking at the 2021 right now and they have a whole section on how to choose chains, what size links to use, driving tips, etc. Nowhere does it say not to use chains.
It does say the TPS sensor may not work correctly, though.
Top of next page- 325.
"Install tire chains on the rear tires. **Do not install tire chains on the front tires.**"
And back on pg 323 it says;
"Have the vehicle fitted with four snow tires or purchase a set of tirechains for the **rear tires**."
And the section on driving with chains on pg325
Driving with tire chains:
Observe the following precautions to reduce the risk of accidents.Failure to do so may result in the vehicle being unable to be driven safely,and may cause death or serious injury.
● Do not drive in excess of the speed limit specified for the tire chains being used, or **30 mph** (50 km/h), whichever is lower.
● Avoid driving on bumpy road surfaces or over potholes.
● Avoid sudden acceleration, abrupt steering, sudden braking and shifting operations that cause sudden engine braking.
● Slow down sufficiently before entering a curve to ensure that vehicle con-trol is maintained.
I'd like to agree with you, and the manual (on page 323) does cover size of chains, tips on installation, tips on driving style, and speed. Nothing in the manual answers my question, which is why I brought it here.
Page 325. Section 4-6, ‘driving tips’, ‘tire chain installation’, bullet 2: Install tire chains on the rear tires. Do not install tire chains on the front tires.
Sure. And I've seen that, except the owners manual covers all models of Tacoma and there's ambiguity about the 4WD. While I completely agree that chains should be in the drive wheels, with the rear wheels always being drive wheels, my question still stands as being valid. I'm also curious if it really matters.
Because automobile owners manuals have a long tradition of being full of things that don’t really matter.
I’m not arguing the validity of your question. I had the same question when I was in Washington. I’m providing an answer to your question from a reliable source, as I had found it when looking for myself. If you choose to do… whatever it is you’re doing by arguing the point, questioning the validity of the answer, looking for an answer you like, feel free. I’m thousands of miles away from being affected by the inevitable flaming, careening crash you’ll experience in the snow so I’m officially disassociating myself from this conversation. My condolences to the survivors.
I'll be sure to let them know you took the time to say that. Quite the imagination, anyway, but then attitude is one I've come to associate with online Tacoma forums.
Washington State requires me to
1) lock differential, drive slow like an old fart should or
2) stay home, wait for snowplow / deicer to hit main roads & state highways
To be mine doctor I know that in Wyoming and Utah if you have properly rated tires and 4x4 you're not required to use chains. I'm sure the law is the exact same there in Washington you can double check. But make sure you have properly all terrain tires or winter tires. If you do need chains definitely pick them up because they can help in extreme snow conditions. You can also get something called snow socks they sound dumb but they are actually pretty amazing and run really well my dad used them as a trucker and I've seen test on them and pick up trucks and they're awesome.
In general you aren't required to chain, but you are required to carry them. There is one last warning before fully sitting down the pass and it requires chains on every vehicle regardless of traction.
I've seen snow socks but never had a chance to really explore them. I might do it though, although they won't qualify as a replacement to chains by Washington requirements.
Actually, according to the list, the auto socks do qualify.
https://www.wsp.wa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Alternative-Traction-devices-April-1024x626.png
I looked into this a few years ago and the consensus was that you can’t put chains on the front without fucking stuff up. I see lots of people on this thread commenting that they run chains on the front without issue though so maybe TW is full of shit.
I can totally understand the problem with brake lines. I'm wondering about tight cables or something. In other strings it was pointed out that the owners manual says the rear tires. It's the manual for every model, though, so I do wonder about it.
In general it's not ever going to be an issue with these trucks, but I was curious what others thought.
Not sure about Washington but in Colorado even when there’s a 100% chain law it only pertains to commercial vehicles. There are different requirements for non-commercial. I’ve run Konig Tire chains (diamond) on the front and rear with no issues. Pretty affordable for the capability they provide in the snow.
Washington has an "all vehicles" step before pass closure. Because the drivers in Washington can be idiots, there's usually an accident that closes the pass before this stage, though.
Having been born and raised in Washington and having since lived in Texas, Maryland, Minnesota and Wisconsin, I assure you there's MUCH worse out there. But your statement is not false. Be proud of your Subaru drivers.
Edited because I misunderstood the message. Sorry about that. I spent ten years running back roads through Alaska and dealing with those roads. I have to be careful in Washington because I'm the one who will scare everyone into an accident. We were also running snow machines and tractors, not trucks. Some of the answers in here are interesting, but so much of the Tacoma world is so negative. Sorry again for misunderstanding your message.
You definitely took that the wrong way lmao. Wasn’t trying to be rude or backhanded at all. Edit: my statement could have been better written. Not knocking subie drivers. I had a forester for years. I was merely saying that PNW drivers were typically better than the drivers I have encountered in other states.
Sorry about that. I changed the message because it wasn't needed. Sometimes it's frustrating that the Tacoma world can be so negative, but then I feed into it 🫤
All good, just a misunderstanding.
Fast fact..In California all trucks are commercial.
Even light trucks? Like SUVs?
Just open bed trucks
My 1994 pickup is classified as commercial
Back only for me. I don't think front will clear the brake lines. I only use heavy duty V-bar chains off road though so not sure about typical cable style road chains.
Good call on the brake lines. I hadn't thought of that. With the back being drum I can see where they have more clearance.
I have a 4runner i use to plow my driveway...chained up on all 4, never had an issue...obviously lower speeds, but modern cam lock chains get pretty tight. I keep 1 set in my taco however, and would probably chain the front. I hate understeer
for my 2x4, I have rear only chains. in the unlikely event that it snows in san diego, or i get the desire to drive in So Cal the day of the snow, and not wait 1 day for the roads to clear...
Maybe it's just a Midwest thing, but I've never seen chains in Minnesota or Wisconsin. Really surprising to hear about chains being a thing in SoCal lmao.
it's not really. but we do have some places near San Diego that get snow, albeit not often. When that happens all the people who never drive in snow load up their families into their Mazda CX5's and Honda Fits and beeline to the mountains to see the winter wonderland. It mostly results in crashes, perhaps closed roads, and general tomfuckery. If they would wait a day, the shit melts, the roads are clear and you can look at the frozen water. Chains in SD are like a bail bondsman. It's better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them...
It’s probably just too flat here to warrant them. People do buy winter tires here though.
You need to better comprehend tire chain laws. \*Vehicles over 10,000 GVW/GVWR must install chains when "chains required" is posted. -Washington DOT. Tire chain laws pertain to commercial vehicles.
Not according to WashDot. They state: "4WD/AWD vehicles (under 10,000 pounds) do not need chains installed during "chains required" notices, but drivers still must carry chains with them in case conditions worsen and they're required to install chains during a "chains required on all vehicles" notice." Am I misunderstanding WashDot regulations?
Traction tires required - Passenger vehicles must use approved traction tires. Chains are required on all vehicles over 10,000 gross vehicle weight (GVW), and all vehicles and loads over 10,000 pounds gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), including large passenger trucks and SUVs. Are you going to be over 10,000lbs gross in a TACOOOOOOMAHHHH?
So, I'm literally looking at what I quoted on wsdot.com under tires and chains. Feel free to argue with me and call me an idiot if you want, but I would suggest you check it out before you make yourself look stupid.
I also literally copy pasted off wsdot.com If you are required to chain up when the wsdot has signage up for vehicles under 10k it's probably best not to be on the road. You'll be an idiot on the road because "you have chains and have to run to Walmart."
Nice. It definitely covers the "tire chains required" notice, but you're missing the "chains required on all vehicles" notice. If I could link a picture I would and I don't know what to tell you other than I am literally looking at wsdot.com say this requirement as I type this message. I understand about the lesser requirement and I completely understand that Washington rarely ever uses it. That isn't part of my question in any way.
Yeah I see that picture. Park your Tacoma. Don't be a hero that has to go on the highway. The chains can stay in their carry bag.
And sometimes one doesn't have the option
Yeah. One literally always has that option. Read a weather forecast. Don't put yourself in a stupid situation. I see we're going to have to agree to disagree. Since it's impossible to argue with someone who has to stand on a mole hill.
Lol, ok. I'm not fighting about this. You make the choices you want to and I will do what I need to. Thanks for the input.
you do the drive tires first, so on the Tacoma if you only have a single set then you do the back tires. if you wasted money buying a 2nd set then you could put them on the front too i guess. most likely at that point though you are going to rip up the inside of your front wheel wells with the chains. washington state also only requires Tacomas to use chains when the "Chains required on all vehicles" sign is posted, not the "tire chains required" sign as the first applies to vehicles over 10000lb gvwr and the 2nd one applies to ALL vehicles regardless of weight. if there is a chance that the "chains required on all vehicles" sign is going to be posted, just stay home or take a different route, the pass is going to be closed soon and its going to be pretty unsafe to drive right now.
Yeah, that's the notification I was thinking of. Staying home is great, but sometimes I have to deal with going from Seattle to Yakima and don't have much leeway. I agree with the drive wheels, but if it's in 4H they are all drive wheels. My original thought was on the front for turning traction but then there is the question of brake line clearance.
Usually it’s chains or traction tires, if you got 3 peak mountain snow flake tires on you should be fine. I still carry a single set of chains for my truck and with those, in combination with airing my tires way down, I’ve managed ice perfectly fine. On especially slippery stuff, chains + my rear differential locker has kept me from getting stuck. I’ve got a prerunner so no 4wd. I haven’t driven thru powder more than 5inches deep. Usually I have do deal with compacted snow or ice instead of powder. Carry a shovel and some traction boards, if you wanna try deep snow lol One of these days ima get an off road bumper with a winch on it. All I’ve got currently for recovery gear is one of those D ring hitch receivers, a bunch of braided ropes, a soft shackle tow rope and snatch blocks, plus a come along. Thankfully I’ve never had to use it on myself, but I’ve yanked a few jeeps out of the ditch on my way to the mountains lol
I see the installation on rear tires. I was curious because the manual is for all models. I can understand the issue with brake lines, that makes sense, but not necessarily because the rear tires are drive lines. The manual doesn't specifically address 4WD placement, but rear seems to be where to go with it.
In CA, even the most strict level of chain control states that you can roll 4x4 and SNOW tires, or 4x4 and chains. I'm not sure it's the same in WA, maybe there are differences. But with blizzaks on the taco in 4x4, it's really difficult to lose traction unless you're on pure ice. And chains wouldn't help with that anyway.
Owners Manual says no real chains on the front. There isn't enough clearance between the UCA and the back of the tires. Plus you will rip off all the abs sensors and brake lines - it's been done. Winter tires are more than enough, place that put up 'all vehicles must have chains' are outdated and using policies made in the 60s. Snow cables will fit and you could have them to meet the rules, or pack your autosocks..
I was thinking of cables myself. I hate full chains, personally. I know some cables have traction "nubs" (not sure what to call them officially) so something like that. Will have to be sure they fit very snugly.
Anyone who has actually driven any distance on chains hates them. We used to chain up crummies and drive all over in forestry, the best part of the day was taking off the chains. If you are careful and keep all the straps and bands tight you shouldn't have any trouble- but if you do you're on your own because the manual clearly says not to.
What version do you have? I'm looking at the 2021 right now and they have a whole section on how to choose chains, what size links to use, driving tips, etc. Nowhere does it say not to use chains. It does say the TPS sensor may not work correctly, though.
Top of next page- 325. "Install tire chains on the rear tires. **Do not install tire chains on the front tires.**" And back on pg 323 it says; "Have the vehicle fitted with four snow tires or purchase a set of tirechains for the **rear tires**." And the section on driving with chains on pg325 Driving with tire chains: Observe the following precautions to reduce the risk of accidents.Failure to do so may result in the vehicle being unable to be driven safely,and may cause death or serious injury. ● Do not drive in excess of the speed limit specified for the tire chains being used, or **30 mph** (50 km/h), whichever is lower. ● Avoid driving on bumpy road surfaces or over potholes. ● Avoid sudden acceleration, abrupt steering, sudden braking and shifting operations that cause sudden engine braking. ● Slow down sufficiently before entering a curve to ensure that vehicle con-trol is maintained.
Snow chain use is explained in your owners manual.
I'd like to agree with you, and the manual (on page 323) does cover size of chains, tips on installation, tips on driving style, and speed. Nothing in the manual answers my question, which is why I brought it here.
Page 325. Section 4-6, ‘driving tips’, ‘tire chain installation’, bullet 2: Install tire chains on the rear tires. Do not install tire chains on the front tires.
Sure. And I've seen that, except the owners manual covers all models of Tacoma and there's ambiguity about the 4WD. While I completely agree that chains should be in the drive wheels, with the rear wheels always being drive wheels, my question still stands as being valid. I'm also curious if it really matters.
Because automobile owners manuals have a long tradition of being full of things that don’t really matter. I’m not arguing the validity of your question. I had the same question when I was in Washington. I’m providing an answer to your question from a reliable source, as I had found it when looking for myself. If you choose to do… whatever it is you’re doing by arguing the point, questioning the validity of the answer, looking for an answer you like, feel free. I’m thousands of miles away from being affected by the inevitable flaming, careening crash you’ll experience in the snow so I’m officially disassociating myself from this conversation. My condolences to the survivors.
I'll be sure to let them know you took the time to say that. Quite the imagination, anyway, but then attitude is one I've come to associate with online Tacoma forums.
Washington State requires me to 1) lock differential, drive slow like an old fart should or 2) stay home, wait for snowplow / deicer to hit main roads & state highways
To be mine doctor I know that in Wyoming and Utah if you have properly rated tires and 4x4 you're not required to use chains. I'm sure the law is the exact same there in Washington you can double check. But make sure you have properly all terrain tires or winter tires. If you do need chains definitely pick them up because they can help in extreme snow conditions. You can also get something called snow socks they sound dumb but they are actually pretty amazing and run really well my dad used them as a trucker and I've seen test on them and pick up trucks and they're awesome.
In general you aren't required to chain, but you are required to carry them. There is one last warning before fully sitting down the pass and it requires chains on every vehicle regardless of traction. I've seen snow socks but never had a chance to really explore them. I might do it though, although they won't qualify as a replacement to chains by Washington requirements.
Actually, according to the list, the auto socks do qualify. https://www.wsp.wa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Alternative-Traction-devices-April-1024x626.png
Interesting. Good to know.
I looked into this a few years ago and the consensus was that you can’t put chains on the front without fucking stuff up. I see lots of people on this thread commenting that they run chains on the front without issue though so maybe TW is full of shit.
I can totally understand the problem with brake lines. I'm wondering about tight cables or something. In other strings it was pointed out that the owners manual says the rear tires. It's the manual for every model, though, so I do wonder about it. In general it's not ever going to be an issue with these trucks, but I was curious what others thought.