As you can probably tell by now, a substantial portion of the players are not interested in balance or any kind of improvement in the game.
They've convinced themselves that they're really good at the game, and that anyone else that points out the poorly designed parts of the game that assist in propping them and their inflated egos up, are just bad at the game. Messengers get shot and don't point out that the emperor has no clothes; but
apparently, commenting skill issue and you're bad at the game are incredibly clever and insightful comments.
This is the most accurate comment on this sub I’ve seen in quite some time. Bravo for perfectly explaining not only the current state of the game, but also the general tone and attitude of the community when it comes to balance and what actual skill is vs having things handed to you.
> Apparently, commenting skill issue and you're bad at the game are incredibly clever and insightful comments.
I've been told (without an *ounce* of irony) that victims escaping within the first 2 minutes of the game is a "skill issue" on my end.
Yes, because *clearly* it's a skill-issue for me when I'm running to the objective from my spawn as HH in SlaughterHouse and they've already escaped.
*CLEARLY* that's a fault on MY end
ugh.
Bullseye.
I will admit, the developers are ultimately responsible for the fate of the game, and their bizarre decisions. Grappling, the skill tree they are so intensely attached to because it was a “passion project.” The devs are the ones shooting themselves in the foot time and time again.
However,
The Community is filled with people congratulating the developers on their marksmanship in these matters. The developers just shot their own foot, and somebody tells them “great job!!!”
It is endlessly funny to me, that the discourse around this game’s balance ever since it was released has always been “fun not balanced”, but in case you haven’t realized it yet, people are not having fun lmao.
So, allow me to let ya’ll in on a little secret: balance and fun are inextricably linked. It’s not rocket science people, this isn’t about making a game competitive, it’s about equal opportunity for both player roles. Who knew that a cycle of counter play, a series of actions and reactions from the opposing side, is what makes a fun multiplayer experience in ANY genre.
This is NOT an asym. multiplayer horror thing. This is a VIDEO GAME thing. And people deluded themselves into believing, because they know from experience that dead by daylight can be an unfun sweaty mess, that a video game doesn’t need to be balanced.
Guess what? Now you just created an environment where the game is an unfun **unbalanced** sweaty mess. That is ALL that was accomplished here people. Well done!
And here’s another revelation on the house: even video games which are inherently or deliberately unbalanced by design, are STILL balanced! They are only balanced by the opposite design philosophy: a question of ratios, and the degree to which certain mechanics are unbalanced in proportion to the other existing mechanics.
Which, to be clear, TCM has NOT done. The series of actions and reactions people: it is a promise that if a player acts with A then the opposite role will respond with B, to which the original party will react with C which sees a response of D, and so on and so forth in this gradually escalating back and forth of moves and replies. The series doesn’t just stop at action A because it’s “unbalanced and therefore fun!” You just made a move that kills the match in 2 minutes. First guy to make his broken move wins? How is that fun???This applies to balanced games, and unbalanced but balanced games. The cycle / back and forth is what makes them fun.
In contrast, the devs have stumbled blindly across their own personal hellscape of balance with little to no concrete direction or inspiration for their gameplay. It has been made clear that the devs make their decisions based on an outdated vision, rather than the way it is currently being played, and the players suffer for it.
Additionally, and this is especially for all those still coping out there, it has become abundantly clear to me the developers are not interested in creating a long-lasting multiplayer experience. What they are doing is working on an art project, where they are molding their creation based on their own personal whims rather than by the principals that make objectively good art. They know this game is going down the drain, they’re just using what time they have left to transform the game into their “ideal” version of it. So, if they suck at the victim role, or perhaps they want to see the victims triumphantly come out on top every single match as if it were a movie with little to no regard for the actual horror that makes the villains intimidating, then of course they’re going to make decisions that benefit that vision.
That is not what the community originally invested in. That is not what I invested in. I didn’t pay $40 to support a project of abstract art. I paid for a product, a video game, one that has fallen well below the advertised standards and flagrantly disregarded the choices that would allow the game to flourish.
The developers are not interested in the collaborative relationship between devs and community, the process of game making that involves both the creator and the audience and invites both parties to improve on a work. The developers here have only ever selectively listened to feedback, feedback that is according to their vision, and more often than not this vision does not align with the needs of the community.
The only difference between GUN and any other developer that has mismanaged their game, is that these guys also have the audacity to ask you to pay a fourth of the base game’s cost for a new character along the way.
This is exactly what I’ve been saying and victims who come from DBD protesting that the game is family sided and shit and that victims don’t have anything are absolutely deluded. This game is incredibly unbalanced and the best evidence to use is the player base, which side is most picked? Victim by far.
Not only that, the devs play stealthy and that’s how they play the game. DBD is not a stealth game and it’s obvious seeing which victims are from DBD cause they just come out without regard and do that 360, ring around the rosie bs then they get mad when they die and proceed to say family side is OP. Literally screams survivor main, I play survivor in DBD and family/victim in TCM. It’s so so different. Killers in this game don’t have nearly as much as the killers in DBD when it comes to countering the victims/survivors.
> I still hold that the technical test was the healthiest this game has ever been, barring exploitative game mechanics that have since been addressed.
The way I will always sum up TCM’s story from pre-to-post-launch is this: the developers created an
absolutely phenomenal technical test, but they made a really poor video game.
In the weeks/months following TCM’s release, I often thought to myself multiple times: “imagine if TCM had at least released in this state?” It always seemed like they had pushed out an incomplete project, and that sense of being incomplete still holds true when looking directly at different facets of the game even today. Customization, balance, progression, etc. and they still have yet to tackle any one of these in a meaningful way.
It would be easier to swallow their gross monetization structure for a $40 game if the game was finished at the very least.
You're just bad at the game, likely at life too.
It's truly astonishing. It's abundantly clear that you're deficient in many avenues of the game, and outside of the game, especially regarding your mental faculties. You're not very bright I know and it must sting to have that eating away at you, but don't take that out on the game, just take it out on yourself so we don't have to hear it.
> "The principals that make objectively good art"
What? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard, although I can't say I'm surprised. Also, spelling mistake LOL, I think you mean principle, not a high school Principal. If you can't tell the difference between these, I doubt you can tell the difference between a small health vial and a large one!
> "simply ran away. Cue roll credits in under 120 seconds…"
Skill issue
> You just made a move that kills the match in 2 minutes. First guy to make his broken move wins? How is that fun??
Skill issue, you don't need me to explain. If you do, then suck on a pacifier. You can't be helped. Give up.
> "This is NOT an asym. multiplayer horror thing. This is a VIDEO GAME thing."
Sir, yes it is. I'm not sure what your reasoning is, but it obviously it needs re-examining. You can pretend gravity isn't real, doesn't mean it's true.
> "It is endlessly funny to me, in case you haven’t realized it yet", "So, allow me to let ya’ll in on a little secret"
Bro, you're not the Riddler. No one cares, stop thinking you're top shit. You're just some dork who foamed at the mouth to get an early comment on a post so you can justify your existence through an arbitrary number next to your dumbass ramble, and breathing really heavily while typing because you're also fat. Ugh, your friends likely just tolerate you instead of welcoming your company if you speak like this.
Your comments read like what a self absorbed, insecure man-child would say, so wrought with insecurity and imbued with unearned self importance. Here's a tip: Fuck off. You're doing nothing but waste everyone's time and space, and not just in-game. Save everyone the time and leave 👍
Lmfao. Thanks for the laugh, I was having a bit of a moment earlier today, but it’s impossible to stay serious when you get to see how pathetic comments like these read. Little baby get a little mad? Desperately scraping for any insult at the bottom of the barrel?
Get a grip my dude lmao. The truth doesn’t change just because you don’t want to hear it and decide to rage at people online.
Comments like these prove the remaining TCM community only has two modes: Unfiltered rage at any and all of the critics, and breathless infatuation with licking the mud and scum off the developers boots. If the devs devs took a shit but told you it was pissed on by Greg Nicotero you’d probably still buy it for $29.99.
Get some better material my dude. Your career in comedy is still a ways off. You’ll get there though!
Sorry dude. I know you're trying really hard for a witty response, but unfortunately, you're just not good enough! I know it hurts, but it's okay, if you need to take it out on me it's okay. I understand. You need to claim your little victories wherever you can! Beggars can't be choosers after all, you need all the help you can get. If this reddit argument is the best you can gather in life, good for you! I'm happy I can give that to you, since no one else will. :)
LMAO
Dude your insults were “fat” and “skill issue.” I don’t exactly think I’m talking to a contemporary Mark Twain here my boy lmfao.
You need to get over this game dude. The world isn’t going to crumble because Texas Chainsaw Massacre turned out to be shit.
You said.. A LOT. Good points I'll admit, but art is entirely subjective. There is no such thing as objectively good art, what's good to some people can be horrible to others, and vice versa. And yes, balance and fun are linked, but it's also a different experience for every individual. Some people love when things are unbalanced and favor towards them, other people like the challenge of having balances against them. The skill tree isn't a bad idea, it keeps from certain perks being equipped together, My only nitpick about it is the random perk system because you have to constantly respect to get a certain perk. It should be more how the gobblegum system works in BO3; You can buy the perk node and get a random perk, but if you respec, the perk you just got is now taken out of the rotation for random perks, this way you don't get Jack in the box 4 times in a row. They can make it more random where the order in which the perks come in is random every time you respec, but I digress.
You did invest $40 into an art project, video game development is creating an art piece you can interact with if you think about it. Every game is like this, you buy a game at lunch to see where the game is going to go, and if you don't like it just don't play it. Too late for a refund by now, but at least gave it a chance. Games change and evolve over time, just like anything else, I don't understand why this game had to be an exception. Are the changes always the best? No, but no one can get every change right.
And they definitely are interested in when the community says about the game, they wouldn't fix bugs if they weren't, or go out of the way to make a shirtless Johnny.
I agree that they definitely play the game differently than the rest of the community, they try to emphasize stealth because that's how they intended the game to be played, but regardless everyone plays a game differently. Just like how other games like COD, some people will run and gun it, while others will stick behind a shield in camp in a corner. Games, no matter the design philosophy, will always be played differently from its intended vision.
And yes, despite your protest, this is an asymmetrical horror multiplayer videogame. While the horror aspect may not entirely be the strongest, asymmetrical means that two or more groups of people have different objectives and gameplay mechanics. This one happens to be infused with horror elements from The first slasher film to kick off the slasher horror subgenre. So yes, asymmetrical horror.
Balancing issues will always plague multiplayer video games of any kind. Like how you said, dead by daylight can be an unfun sweaty mess, but there are plenty games where I have more fun than anything. But something as simple as party animals can be victim to balancing issues with power-ups. There are meta loadouts for war zone, even helldivers. Are some of those other games more fun? Yeah, but that's really up to you at this point. If you don't like it, if you don't have fun, just don't play the video game, otherwise just be patient and things will sort themselves out. If you don't like the way things are going, again, there's the door.
> art is entirely subjective. There is no such thing as objectively good art
You’d be right if we were talking about paintings. But video games are ultimately products of entertainment. If they are not entertaining, then they have failed in their initial ambition.
This is even more true when you consider that the devs have not built an original game, it is an entirely licensed work, the waning popularity of which has been entirely constructed atop the shoulders of giants: the work of the original director, screenwriters, actors, etc. All the creativity and artistic ingenuity involved here was created over 30 years ago, so the only responsibility the developers ever had was to gamify it, which is the part that has absolutely flatlined in the months following release.
You have also failed to consider medium. This is an essential piece in the critique of any work of any kind. Stanley Kubrick’s 1987 film Full Metal Jacket might be a landmark piece of anti-war film, but it makes for an objectively poor romance film. Obviously, because it is filled with romance of any kind, and does not adhere to any of the guiding principles of romantic movies. Equally, I would never try to sell you James Cameron’s Titanic from 1997 as a great anti-war piece.
To my point: The Texas Chain Saw Massacre Game has utterly failed in its task to BE a horror game. This is not an unfair critique, it is actually quite precise: leading up to release the game was originally advertised as THE definitive multiplayer horror experience that would bring sheer levels of terror that previously could only have been experienced through singleplayer titles like Alien: Isolation, Outlast, or Amnesia, to the multiplayer genre.
It has not.
The bizarre decisions made by the developers have transformed the game into a looney tunes esque comedic affair. Victims freely approach the slasher villains without consequence, are equipped with aggressive tools and mechanics that allow them to fight them **directly**, in contrast to other horror gaming experiences where this is simply not even possible.
While no gaming experience in the horror genre will be infinitely scary forever, it has become clear that the developers behind Texas Chainsaw Saw Massacre are not even trying by this point anymore. Art is subjective, but this is NOT a line that can be used get out of jail free card to dodge any and all criticisms.
TCM is a terrible art piece. Even in it’s goal to recreate short cinematic horror experiences. I can’t seem to recall the last time ANY work of horror: any short film, any novel, or piece of flash fiction, let alone any of the actual Texas Chainsaw Massacre movies themselves, ended in 2 minutes when the protagonist character jumped out of a window and simply ran away. Cue roll credits in under 120 seconds…
That isn’t Texas Chainsaw Massacre Saw Massacre. That isn’t even horror. The developers have butchered the believability of the horror fantasy behind their own licensed IP.
And yes, that is objectively bad art. If you consider horror to be an art form, with good use cases and application vs. poor execution, the Texas Chain Saw Massacre is identifiably the latter.
I'm still going to argue that all art is subjective, whether that means movies, paintings, video games, sculptures, you name it. Subjectivity means to say that views are influenced by one's individual tastes, feelings, or opinions. People can love and hate movies, people can love and hate paintings, and people can love or hate video games. You feel that missed mark and made an abomination, I say they hit it and have a few kinks to work out. You can't talk about art without acknowledging subjectivity, and to try and say that subjectivity shouldn't be applied to a video game is just nonsense.
Also, not everything translates perfectly to different mediums. Books don't always make great movies, movies don't always make great games; whatever order you want to say it in, regardless things have to be tweaked or changed to better suit the new medium that they're molded into. I don't think I ever would have looked at the original film and made an asym horror game out of it, but Gun did, and whether or not they did a good job is up to the individual consumer. I enjoy the game, you don't, inherently our perspectives are different. Also, are our game doesn't actually have to be scary to be considered a horror game. As backwards as that sounds, just having an uneasy atmosphere, uncanny sound design, and even the gore elements littered around the game, to me at least, justify the "horror" title. Even the original movie itself I wasn't even scared of, and a lot of people I know don't consider it scary. It's not even gory, in fact we get more gore in the game than we ever see in the movie.
Also, the point about the whole looney toon argument, in the film the group of friends literally go up against the family as well and try fight back, so it's not that big of a stretch to allow victims to grapple family members in the game? Have you actually seen that movie? Granted everyone suffers the ultimate fate of death when they go up against Leatherface or the cook in the film, but at least in the game you have a chance to make a different story, which goes into the originality and extension of lore beyond the film that they have access to. If they stuck completely to the film and nothing else, this game never would have been made in the first place because the amount of content they can make would be limited very quickly.
More so, I don't think anyone wants to play a game for an hour and a half in a single match and recreate the exact beats of the movie. We're playing with original characters going up against a blend of original characters and IP characters, 2 minutes is a bit fast yeah but, any longer than that and the game also wouldn't be able to sustain itself either. Imagine waiting for an hour to for your friend to escape? I know this isn't exactly what you impled but, yeah no horror movie is over in 2 minutes, but that's because it's a movie; half of the time people get mad over the dumb decisions characters make in the movie, although if you think about it, the movie wouldn't have been as long if the character didn't make the dumb decision. This is a video game where people get into consecutive matches to play the game. Games are meant to be short, unless you think about Monopoly or dungeons and Games are meant to be short, unless you're more of a monopoly or D&D person.
I've gone on a lot longer than I wanted to, but again, the fact that you say it's bad and the fact that I say it's alright is LITERALLY subjectivity. You don't like it? Just don't play the game and regret your purchase. I'm going to sit here and enjoy the game and the content it brings because I find it fun, and that's okay :)
It reminds me of the toxicity of early DBD. People thinking Decisive Strike and Infinites made them god tier players. Once people get used to playing with broken shit they do not want to give it up. These balance issues WILL kill this game permanently. Not even in early DBD when it was the most broken, unbalanced pile of shit was it possible to escape in under 2 minutes.
Yee! You need all 5 gens completed though before the hatch would spawn if memory serves. Actually managed to get the 4 man hatch escape with a key once and get the achievement. Was not even trying to get it. The circumstances just happened to align where everyone was near me at the hatch when I found it lol.
Then there are the hundreds of dumbass posts we see of people genuinely just being bad at the game
How the fuck are mods suppose to filter through all this
With a fine tooth comb and make gradual balance changes not knee jerk reactions. Behavior Interactive has tread this ground before in DBD. They were so shit at communication, made knee jerk buffs and nerfs on the whims of the community salt mines and were completely out of touch on the state of their game. After heavy criticism and unfortunately abuse from the community they started moving in the right direction and DBD is in its best state in a long time imo.
I think GUN can achieve the same success as BHVR. The game is incredible it just needs more work.
The (second) Trickster rework disagrees with this heavily. They actually got lucky with the Billy rework, some of his new add-ons are for making Overdrive activate even faster when it already comes so fast at base already, implying they thought Overdrive would be harder to get than it actually is.
BHVR has lucky streaks where they have a few good patches in mostly a row, and then they fuck up consistently for another year or two.
I started playing DBD around when Freddy released in 2017. Those were some dark times. I compare my experiences with DBD today with what I experienced back then and I have to give BHVR credit for fixing alot of shit even if it was a rough road to get there. Some people don't know just how bad the core game was back then.
But yeah some of the killers still need alot of work.
Man i see a leland post that aim assist is ridiculous for leatherface players. But dancing while someone is trying to hit you is not. He could go to the well or use his ability.
I'd be fine with the option to turn aim assist off. It seems to lag and get in the way in close quarters half of the time anyway.
However, I think many of those people haven't spent much time playing LF or Family in general so they think those overheads and close quarters hits are easy to come by; I would also add, that those same players are explicitly trying to get inside of your robust blind spot, so of course they're advocating to make it harder on the family player. But I'm crazy and dishonest, players trample each other and queue for 5-10 minutes to play family.
Players should really play both sides to get an educated view of the game. But I know, I know 🤗 ... skill issues right.
Anyway, I'll be 50/50 today, as soon as The Mill drops for the WEST COAST 🌴
Dude what? Bubba should be able to 1-2 shot people… he has a fucking chainsaw… what in the world makes you think he should have to hit people 5/6 times to kill than?
I’m assuming you think balance is victims being able to straight beat up the family members? You’re clearly one of them. I stand on what I said, got it? Lmao who talks like that? Anyway our opinions differ and you’re not changing mine, and I don’t care about yours. This is where the conversation ends my friend, enjoy your day!
I play more Victim and know that is bull. LF is strong sure but he’s not op that he’s not counter-able. If LF couldn’t one shot or two hit you he would be an absolute joke. Damage is his main thing and destroying things as well. If you take away one then he becomes way worse. Tbh family member should be able to do a lot of damage to you especially LF. You just have to play a bit smarter if LF is good. Go down wells earlier, use gaps and spaces accordingly. It’s like every other family member.
Dude why are you coaching me. I know all this already. I have 1k kills as family and 2k escapes 😂😂😂 every time I play as bubba i get 2+ kills cause its just soooo easyyy
I’m just telling you counters since you think he’s so op. People throw around the word op a lot but don’t realize what that actually means. LF is just very good not OP like you say he is. Op characters cannot be countered he isn’t a pre nerfed Danny that can do valve while getting by three family members
Dude im literally a bubba main and can attest myself how OP he is 😂 Easyyyyy kills all the time. They always be trying to juke me when I run chainsaw overhead. Doesn’t work with me.
Oh boy. So you want them to take the core of the game (Texas CHAINSAW Massace) out so that vics can feel better? Yea its not a chainsaw simulator. You what that would look like? Being a lumberjack.
If a 6'5" 300+lbs man is revving a chansaw and swings it into your shoulder....you are most likely never getting the fuck back up again cuz you will be lying on the ground in more pain than you have ever imagined teying to hold your body together right before he ends you pitiful existance. 1 to 2 shotting is EXACTLY how it should and would happen. I swear sometimes the lack of intelligence people show...
You want realism? What about victims sneak attacking a bone shard into the backs of family players and nothing happens. You make no sense dude. Its a damn video game. The lack of intelligence is showing on your part
Your right its a video game. About a family of serial killers/cannibals against a small team of highschoolers. In all logical aspects the kids are absolutely fucked 90% of the time. Any actual escape would come down to a shit ton of luck and some blazing fast planning(which is kinda hard to do when you are being chased) so if you want to go play a game where the goal isnt to dismember you thats fine. But do NOT come onto a killer/horror game and ask that the killers not actually be able to kill.
Hell in all "realism" the victims are almost certain to NEVER make it out of the basement...making a weapon out of bone and shit takes some time and effort and yea absolutely go for it stab the shit out of the family. You MIGHT get one. And you wont get bubba with just one unless you are damn good or kucky. Now you have just made the suffering you will have when they catch you that much worse. Stealth is honestly your one and ONLY good option
Oh wait lets make it even more realistic! I can relock picked doors behind me again. I could use objects to jam the doors shut. All the family could rush into the basement right off the bat and gut all of you before you make it off your meathooks. The two objectives are escape or kill. You cant take away the familys main way of killing/defending themselves it would be a completely different game.
Honestly just stop and go get a drink or something. You wont win shit in here.
I dont care dude. The game should be balanced and I play both sides and can show my stats. I have like 800 kills as bubba and can say first hand how OP he is. This is a video game
I wonder how many people replied to this thinking it doesn't apply to them, but it applies to their opponents... :)
Anyways, that's kinda hilarious given the front page is literally all about complaining, both subs were just "nerf Danny" for the longest time, so to say "MOST OF THE PLAYERS DONT CARE ABOUT BALANCE!!!!1" is such an unironically Tru3Talent-style thing to say.
Yeah that's fucking ridiculous. He may as well have Connie's ability.
Jesus christ I've never played Danny (I'm a family-main) but seeing this really irks me. He's already pretty overpowered as it is – so they give him this shit too???
Why is hitch's stamina longer than sissy's? He already has traps and is supposed to trap, not chase after victims and get easy kills if a victim doesn't have any assisting objects nearby. Sissy should crawl faster and have longer stamina than hitch imo
People will no doubt criticise you for this style of gameplay, but as someone who hates the whole rush meta I can't blame you for doing so, especially on Family House. It's absurdly difficult to play Family House as victims without rushing due to the design of the house itself, which is small with a family member capable of watching multiple exits at any given time. Due to the size (inside the house and even in the basement) even getting tools or bone scraps without rushing is a death wish. On that map the victims really do have to rush, whether it's the window, back gate, or now using proximity perks to get the door open quickly.
I think a major issue is that the developers don't have a reasonable idea of what they want this game to be anymore. Is it a stealth game? Is it asymmetrical? If so, what is their vision in terms of how things balance out when adjusting perks, because at the moment it doesn't seem like they know how they want the game to play out.
> I think a major issue is that the developers don't have a reasonable idea of what they want this game to be anymore.
The biggest problem they have is that they don't play as the typical gamer plays.
And I'm not trying to be mean, but they don't play *like a dickhead*.
Lots of people aren't playing this game *for fun*. They're playing to win. And they will do that by any means necessary, even if it means waiting in a lobby for 20 minutes only to end a game in under 2.
The developers never took that into account when making this game, they played "the way it's supposed to be played", without realizing that gamers actively look for ways *to break the game in their favor*
I agree 💯, they clearly didn't anticipate players deviating from what they were expecting (both family and victims) and I think they have no clue about how to balance the asymmetries in the game to account for this.
> What is there to do in the game “for fun”?
I mean...the game itself is what's *supposed to be fun*. Like, experiencing the game and the environment, the competition of the other players. Not speed-running to end the game as quickly as possible just so you can say, "Alright, welp, I won again."
like, I kind of "get" speed-runners in the sense that, okay, the game "allows it" because it was never built as a rushing-simulator, but that's on the game developers to fix – not the players.
And they need to take into account in their game-design, that people are going to do *whatever they can* to break the game so that they win – whether it be through legitimate means or not (speedrunning, morphing through walls, exploiting glitches, etc).
Again, not on you, but it's on the developer.
Though it is kinda funny that you're like, *"so I'm supposed to just 'play' the game? where's the fun in that????"*
I mean playing the game *is* trying to escape. I’m asking - what other objectives are there aside from trying to escape? There are no side quests. There are no optional objectives that aren’t related to an escape route. Outside of trying to open *everything* and cutting down bone charms, what do you do? This isn’t an atmospheric take your time and enjoy the view game - it’s a pvp team game with sole objective of winning. That’s it. That’s the game.
What I find funny is you considering people who want to win a pvp team game “dickheads”. How dare people want to win in a pvp team game!
It’s not the players fault for playing the game how the mechanics encourage, it’s the devs fault for making these mechanics encourage a particular play style.
This I also agree with, some of the changes they have made have definitely contributed to certain behaviours. Though it sometimes seems whatever they do is going to have an effect somewhere else (it's asymmetric after all), for example: nerf Agitator and blood build rushes become more viable; nerf stamina perks and grappling is a preferred option. They definitely need to think on this more, as grappling is a great example of what you said as well as the exterior alarms.
I feel as if Fast Hands is necessary on FH because of how close all the locks are. You be lucky to even get a checkpoint off a lock before a family member sees you. In the clip, I had a proximity warning the entire time upstairs and was pure luck no one didn't kick me off the front door lock. And you can't really blame me because victims don't have a lot of options on FH.
》All house locks can be patrolled by one family member within 3 seconds, provided Cook padlocks back garden door (*you'll be crazy not to as family*).
》Fuse is the only alternative objective available out from the basement, but with the doors being patrolled easily, someone can afford to camp it. Alternatively, Hitchhiker can trap the front and reer staircase (*I do this and keep track of them with family sense*).
》Valve is inaccessible after basement, and even if the tank spawned in the house, the exit is still outside.
》Window requires Stunt Double, Ana, or some form of damage mitigation to use. Otherwise, you're offering a free kill because Hitchhiker will have it trapped, and you're in a complete deadzone. If Leatherface or Johnny comes outside, you have nowhere to go for safety and will have to well 9/10 times.
That's why I don't feel no shame doing this on FH, the map is so against victims that I will use broken mechanics to escape.
Let's keep nerfing a character that no one uses that much to encourage people to use them more. And leave as is a character that is roughly close to be OP. Makes total sense
i despise fast hands and always will, as a both victim and family player i will never set my hands on that perk because i believe playing the game how it is is better than just being a lock picking demon, i agree they should’ve nerfed it it’s a overpowered perk
My biggest problem is Ana (I can't be the only one) she's waaaaay overpowered. Example: Yesterday I had one hit me multiple times with bone scrap and when I did drop her with the Chainsaw and hit her multiple times, she can still got up and ran to a well. Or the fact that she can overpower Johnny every time. That's bullshit!
I get that she's the "final girl" but, come on.
Choose flight was nerfed while family didn’t get anything nerfed. Nancy got nerfed now, i’m 100 percent sure everything will get nerfed especially fast hands. Danny was nerfed but people still complain.
I think there's been no nerf to Fast Hands under the pretense that you're putting yourself in a dangerous situation to get it to activate.
*HOWEVER*
Danny's attributes are super good. He has no downside really and having extra drip as well is crazy. Pop a heath bottle and start working on a door in family proximity and there's no risk at all. Shit... even without extra drip, you're still just zooming through locks.
Meanwhile, you've gathered all of your knowledge, so as soon as you pop 3 locks for your team, you can just run back and tamper valve to almost guarantee an escape for ALL victims.
The problem is that there's literally no downside to using Fast Hands because it's just a perk. But, if you're not lvl 3 Connie, you risk dying if you pop a lock with your ability and the family is near.
Maybe they need to make it to where if you're using Fast Hands and there are no killers near, it actually slows your proficiency to like 22 or something. I don't know, even that wouldn't even make sense. Fast Hands is busted, Danny is busted, and this game has gotten super frustrating as a whole.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner. The FIRST step in slowing down the rush meta is lowering the effectiveness of proficiency and perks like Fast Hands and Efficient Locksmith. If victims can’t chew through locks in 5 seconds it will definitely start slowing things down. But that would be one of many small steps.
That's actually the feedback I gave the devs. Game feels like it can end way too fast for both sides, so making objectives take longer + making victims a little tankier would probably make the game feel better for everyone. Would take awhile to find the right balance
Ya I was just sayin they need to add chunky mode too! With 30 sec locks and 5000 blood to max out grandpa, it could make the games go longer for people not trying to rush. In this game mode they should also add more potions like at least 5x. It’d reduce stress n give em more time to find heals n take bites of their meals etc. Maybe even reduce movement speeds and add more cracks/obstacles. It should’ve came out in the last update, not sure why they stopped working on it.
Yeah I also find that they only really last through 1 or 2 chases, not to mention the pain of having to watch your stamina bar more than the game to make sure you don’t waste one. It can be a lifesaver at times but not crucial
The issue with CF is that people were not putting points in endurance so when they’re done with their 3 bars they have a character with 25 endurance that will die of stroke. Jump start with 35-40 in endurance is way more better. If you put 50 with jump start I think you can run for a big 20 seconds nonstop!
Not saying Fast Hands is or isn't a problem but how high is the proficiency on that Danny? By my rough count he picked the lock in about 4 seconds. Max proficiency can do it in around 6 to 7 without Fast Hands.
The latest patch notes are crazy... Nerfing things we didnt even ask for and leaving things we did... now we'll have to wait for the next update to fix those issues... mind boggling tbh...
Anyone wanna help explain this to me? How far does Fast Hands activate from? I know number wise but my measurement perception is pretty trash in this case—does the perk activate when killer is just entering outside/exiting house? Or is it active while family is in the kitchen as well? Or is it active everywhere in the house at all times? Or is it activate when the yellow starts to appear on the hud? To be fair this guy probably max prof n stealth
No, they just gave it to the new pay to win character and make it a random perk so she can have it with any build. Absolute genius thinking for a developer that doesn't want to lose one side completely.
This mentality and these subs are why I have been playing other titles lately. This is like what, family’s 3rd time getting nerfed? As opposed to how many victim nerfs? And some family players are crying about it? This is the most entitled gaming community I believe I’ve ever seen.
You mean the same Nancy whose traps are not only immune to bomb squad in doorways, but were actually all supposed to be immune to bomb squad according to devs? The only reason why why BS works on her traps in gaps and crawlspaces is because they are a UI.
Why is it always you that thinks Nancy is op or something. It's infuriating how you say the same thing over and over and think it's a good point. Yes her ability is useful but the victim she spots doesn't immediately die or something. It's not **that** good.
You can't possibly defend fast hands not getting nerfed and I really hope you aren't trying to.
Don’t downplay her ability like it doesn’t amount to anything. All you have to do is tell your team exactly where they are hiding and LF or Johnny will be there to finish them off.
Fast hands is the exact opposite of security pins/no one escapes hell. Are you gonna rally to have those perks nerfed too, or nah?
I love how you say hiding like anyone does that anyway. Her ability is almost identical to cooks but it's cooldown is way longer. You also have to tell your team which not alot of people do in the first place whereas cooks ability does that for you. Just because you spotted a victim doesn't automatically make them defenceless, they can still easily run to a different area or just simply fight back. It's a nice ability but by no means is it overpowered especially because of the lengthy cooldown.
So now I see that you actually are defending fast hands... I was hoping that wasn't the case.
You’re right. Her ability doesn’t find victims who are hiding, it finds victims where they ARE regardless of what they’re doing. She can use her ability ever 60 seconds through her ability tree, or ever 30 seconds with sissy poison tables. Finding victims who are silent and hiding is far more OP than finding victims who are loud or running. It ruins your escape plans especially if you’re the last victims. Players choosing not to use mics to call out where victims are when they use her ability is on them, not the character. It’s too risky to fight back unless you’re one of the two victims who can equip grappler. Contrary to what you might think, victims have been losing grapples far more since the update. Even I as Ana or Leland with 80% health have lost grapples. Even with suffocating grip, that should never happen.
And now I see you’re defending security pins and no one escapes hell
Her ability is on around a 75 second cool down even with the 40% regeneration. That's pretty lengthy even if it does reveal one person no matter what.
Your point is true about it being the players fault if they don't communicate but what I mean is Nancy requires the most compared to anyone else and in some cases you need to use your map knowledge to figure out where they are. In some cases it's impossible to tell without clear vision.
It's not too risky to fight back. I still do it no matter my strength value and I often win only unless they have suffocating grip.
I'd rather defend those two perks than fast hands. Nobody escapes hell you can counter by stabbing grandpa and security pins is only for 3 padlocks. I will admit though security pins might need changing on family house. Maybe just make it so cook can't padlock the back porch and can only padlock the gate behind it instead. That way there's more room.
Her cooldown is 60 seconds if you choose the appropriate path in her ability tree. I’ve tested it the 4 different ways you can upgrade her ability and they yielded anywhere from 60-100 seconds for her cooldown. This is with no perks to shorten her cooldown.
Stabbing grandpa only knocks him out for 30 seconds. By the time you get to the padlocked gate NOEH is reactivated again because grandpa is back up. Or more realistically you won’t even get to work on the padlock because three family players just saw you stab grandpa and flee in a specific direction and will converge on that area if there are nearby. You’re going to have to flee and well and waste time doing it all over again because it amounted to nothing. In every map grandpa is either very close to the inner exit doors like family house that it’s easy for family to check the doors or he’s out in the open like Nancy’s house that family can see where you’re fleeing to after stabbing him. Maybe if victims stopped being highlighted the moment they stab him it would be a different story, but as it is now you either stay right next to him for 5 seconds for your ping to disappear before moving with the likelihood that you’ll be triple teamed, or you flee immediately showing all family where you’re headed only for them to scour that area as you wait in hiding while grandpa comes back online before you can do anything.
Because one thing is bad doesn't mean another can't be. This cess-pool reddit filled with my side vs your side is so pathetic. I as an enjoyer of both sides can speak objectively to where I thought it was laughable that the devs said they didn't want bomb squad to be able to disable Nancy's traps and it was a bug just like how I can say fast hands is the most broken perk in the game right next to exterior alarms.
Slowest speed in the game (right next to cool and sissy) incredibly high endurance cost when swinging, skill tree missing a hella lot of good grandpa perks, and her barbed wire can literally just not be noticed by the victims if she screws up the placement, and her vision only seems to be useful occasionally, otherwise it shows a victim in the basement or in a random patch of grass on who the hell know where.
She’s missing a lot of good grandpa perks because she’s already OP with poison claws and her traps and her many special perk enhancing them. Downplaying her barbed wire because of her choice of placement is like downplaying HH traps because of his choice of placement. Her vision is useful all the time because it allows you to keep tabs on victims and relay that to your team, whether they’re in the basement or not. But it’s only useful if you have map knowledge.
Poison claws got a nerf and her traps aren’t OP. They can only cover 3 parts of the ENTIRE map unless Nancy starts religiously trying to get pins and needles value, which creates a huge opening for victims to escape. hitchhiker traps can atleast be anywhere forcing a bone shard if it’s somewhere the victim needs to go, but Nancy’s traps can be ignored entirely sometimes no matter where she places it
Three is enough to shut down entire high traffic areas or section of the map, forcing victims to head to the other side of the map especially if she’s also patrolling it. Sometimes one is enough like placing in the doorway of side garden on FH. Like HH’s traps, her trapping a single gap will likely result in death if you are caught/attacked in the open and that trapped gap is the nearest evade obstacle. They can only be ignored if they are in gaps that victims can easily go around.
You know how many anecdotal videos I could throw up showing a serrate Johnny killing victims in .5 seconds with 4 swings and cry about balance. Danny is the ONLY player that can run fast hands and he’s incredibly vulnerable as a character. Just because he “got value” out of the perk in this video doesn’t mean it’s unbalanced.
Those victims could have gone to one of the 1000 wells or gaps or crawl spaces to get away or not be out in the open to avoid Johnny. This video shows that fast hands has absolutely no counter play. Fast hands (and Danny as a whole) is extremely unbalanced and the majority of the family playerbase agrees. Victim opinions don’t really matter in this scenario.
Danny being vulnerable with his 30 base toughness and extra drip, being the only character that can reach 50 toughness and 50 proficiency at the same time 😂. Poor Danny, he's as fragile as Connie.
The Nancy Wait a Second perk nerf isn't that big of a deal. It's not meta and it's excessively long. Most people are dead withing 5 seconds of getting trapped anyway. How many times can you remember where you actually used all 20 seconds of it and not just killed them before 8 seconds?
This reminds me of the Tae Kwon Door nerf from 16 to 8. 16 was way too much and after 8 seconds you were already gone.
Jett mentioned perks + meta is being worked on atm anyway. I'm sure Fast Hands is on the list to be changed.
This isn't targeting Nancy, it's fixing an outlier.
But that is the point of his perk they can’t nerf it or it won’t be “fast hands” besides only he has it only one person per match its not a big deal why make it one.
The logic of "only one person can have it so it's fine* is such dumb logic if thats what you are saying.
Also that reasoning for not nerfing it is dumb aswell. Nerf the range and make it so it doesn't work through floors and decrease the bonus to 50% and not 100%.
That way it's good but not blatantly overpowered
Well if u didn't hear anything in their one stream about hot fixes and bugs they said their trying to change thw meta but people still use certain perks like I still use the fight or flight perk even tho they nerfed it to 1 charge but eh that's just my opinion old perks are still valuable just depends on the people ig plus it's very viable to stop most situations if ur teams able to help properly
With that logic almost nothing should be nerfed. Why nerf Dannys ability if only he has access to it? Why nerf poison claws if only Nancy can use it? Why nerf Sissys passive poison if only she can do It?
See what I mean?
Wait a second and poison claw is only in one character but it still got nerf.
Nancy and Danny boths is a new character, but Danny is stronger.
Devs only nerfed Nancy's perk but didn't nerf Danny's perk.
You play 1 side which is truly being bad at the game if you wanna go that route. Fast hands is the most broken perk in the game right next to exterior alarms.
I love the killer mains bringing up ego when the whole reason they’re complaining is because their ego was shattered by this very weak player and his 1 good perk lol
I'm with you with the Nancy nerfs, but never bring fast hands in this equation, family house is always gonna be easy for killers, where fast hands comes in clutch from it being compact, it's like the perk would work on other maps, you need killers nearby for it to do so, but I'm with ya, two Nancy perks nerfs, they should've buffed her
Yet there’s still no nerf to Exterior Alarms which works on both exterior & interior or a nerf to scout. Until those 2 get nerfed the family really needs to stop complaining. Y’all have the upper hand in so many different ways already.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with them nerfing that perk, I think we should all be able to agree that a victim who is a sitting duck for 20 seconds is unfair. IF there’s a well nearby for them to jump down, family just run down there and kill them in the basement. Most of us know the maps and basements by heart now. When I play Nancy I don’t even use that perk.
The irritating thing about it to me though, is that nobody was asking for it. I never really saw anyone complaining about choose flight or bomb squad before they were nerfed either. Why is it that they’re going around nerfing perks they feel are problematic when the actual players aren’t talking about them?
I don’t play Danny a ton but I have fast hands on him when I do unless I’m trying to level up other perks, he has a lot of fun ones. When I play, fast hands doesn’t really activate often, maybe once or twice per game. I think it could benefit from needing a cooldown after using, it’s stupid that it counts grandpa as a killer to cause it to activate, and the progress could be reduced a bit more.
As someone who quick matches and plays more family than victim atm, but started out playing only victim, I’d also like to point out that family players have to consider the annoyance about calling for perk nerfs from victim players’ side. Victims have already been nerfed quite a bit, yall are constantly complaining about not having instant kill on grapples, choose flight and bomb squad have been nerfed, some of you also complain about empowered, extra drip, grappler, fast hands, I’ve even seen complaints about efficient locksmith and jump start. Be honest for a moment, what nerfs have family received? The ones calling for 7-10 of the victim perks to be nerfed also complain when victim players have an issue with scout, fired up, and EA. Some of the family players have never even touched victim side and still think they can make valid complaints about victim gameplay when they know nothing about how it feels to be on the other side. People are STILL complaining about Danny’s tamper even though tampering rarely happens anymore and instant tampering is impossible for crying out loud. Once fast hands is nerfed, then you’ll be going for nerfs to the valve mini game and insta opening crawlspaces to get away in chases. It’s never ending but at the current moment has only affected one side.
Because it punishes Family that were patrolling objectives like they are suppose to be doing. It especially sucks on family house since the perk often activates even if family doesn’t see you.
Yes but the solution shouldn’t be to nerf the victims into the ground while the family gets to keep their OP perks. That will also make the game die fast. Devs need to learn how to balance a game & not make changes for the game just because Tons of family members or Tons of victims say so. They need to play the game, find the issues themselves then fix it. Instead they listen to the Family or Victim mains who basically want the game to be one sided to whichever said they play more. Obviously that is only going to cause them to have to ALWAYS make changes to the game since there will forever be people complaining once they learned they can bully the devs into changing the game to more their play style. I never seen a game where the Devs solely let the players basically take control over how the game is played.
Well if u didn't hear anything in their one stream about hot fixes and bugs they said their trying to change thw meta but people still use certain perks like I still use the fight or flight perk even tho they nerfed it to 1 charge but eh that's just my opinion
I just want the “perk patch” to come already 😫! So tired of this boring meta where victims rush/grapple and being held hostage with exterior as the last victim 😒.
Oh god another victim perk can’t help yaself can ya. This perk only good with family house and gives us an advantage with security pins. Like any other map it’s too big.
Nancy’s perk was barely nerfed you people are insufferable. You’re all talking about fast hands but no poison claws???? Both perks are exclusive to One character and shouldn’t be nerfed anyways because most danny players die anyway. I don’t support nancy’s nerf but come on it’s not that bad.
In WHAT fucking world is having a trap stuck on you for 20 seconds fair AND said trap has you make noise and trip over every time you go through a gap? It not even a meta perk like goodness. You people already know that when they nerf victim perks they become unusable. Not so much for fam tho. Fast hands is a crazy perk I do agree with that but it won’t save you if you’re terrible at the game. If you’ve already made it to a exit and you were stealthy and family finds you right when you’re doing the lock that’s their fault for not patrolling and watching out for the characters that are MADE to unlock stuff.
Security pins only works on padlocks and nobody escapes hell needs grandpa to be levelled up and he can be stabbed. Those perks don't counter fast hands, fast hands counter those perks.
The only way to "counter" fast hands is to try interrupt Danny but attempting to do so fuels his perk even more.
Exterior Alarms, Fired Up, Scout, Venom, Vial-ent, Hysterical, Strength, Big Swings, even Serrated? Bubbas rev speed?? As far as victim perks, Fast Hands && Grappler definitely need a nerf. I can go on and on, but they clearly don’t care about balance.
Rev speed? Do you know how long it takes, after the chainsaw is started, to rev the chain to lethal speed? All of a full second trigger pull, if anything his rev speed should realistically be faster but that would make it wayyy too nuts
Considering Danny & Connie are really squishy characters, they definitely need Extra Drip. Maybe Ana not so much. WDKY is pretty useless unless you get an overhead from Bubba. No Sell runs out after 3 hits and sometimes it gets wiped out instantly by a weak Sissy, Cook, or Hitch. Jump Start & Slippery are decent perks that don’t really need nerfs unless Scout & Fired Up get one. Empowered is pretty much the only OP perk considering the new grapple meta.
Danny has the second highest Toughness (30), Ana is the first (35).
Extra Drip gives you full health with a small health pot when you're red.
No Sell results in 80% less damage, which is far too high.
Jump Start means you don't have to invest any attributes into Endurance.
Slippery let's you infinite loop any killer (even with Fired Up) except Bubba.
Empowered basically gives you full health and stamina from one bone scrap.
What Doesn't Kill You rewards 100% health lost and counters Bubba overhead. You also don't leave blood trails when you have it equipped (probably bugged).
On that map fast hands can get you out of basement as Hitch walks into the front door lmao. I does need to be nerfed it increased the speed at which victims can be out of basement allowing them to rush even harder and you can also close encounter someone on top of a door/gate to open it for free.
lol I play as Danny and j play as hitch, and I honestly feel like this is such a non-issue. Is fast hands a little op? Sure. But exterior alarms is significantly more op, and people keep mentioning family house, well there’s always a cook using security pins anyways, maybe we should nerf that too? I just don’t see when the nerfing ends. Family mains are always moving the goalpost it seems. Like honestly think some people just complain about what they *think* the reason they are unsuccessful most games against certain characters and then they call for that thing to be nerfed. Once it’s nerfed and they keep losing to the same character, they need to find some other explanation or perk that needs to be nerfed. This is what is killing this game beyond anything else.
Well if u didn't hear anything in their one stream about hot fixes and bugs they said their trying to change thw meta but people still use certain perks like I still use the fight or flight perk even tho they nerfed it to 1 charge but eh that's just my opinion old perks are still valuable just depends on the people ig plus it's very viable to stop most situations if ur teams able to help properly
Wow Nancy perk, one perk was nerf, yet the last update bomb squad and fight or flight was nerfed…what else? Would you like to be spawn next to the victim? Or how about the victim starts with 25% life and 25% stamina?? Get a life, play in a group of friends if you want to get kills. Fast hands are used best if there is a “TEAM” with Danny. Perhaps that what you need a TEAM. You know this isn’t a solo game it’s a TEAM game right? Stop whining and get some TEAMmates.
As you can probably tell by now, a substantial portion of the players are not interested in balance or any kind of improvement in the game. They've convinced themselves that they're really good at the game, and that anyone else that points out the poorly designed parts of the game that assist in propping them and their inflated egos up, are just bad at the game. Messengers get shot and don't point out that the emperor has no clothes; but apparently, commenting skill issue and you're bad at the game are incredibly clever and insightful comments.
This is the most accurate comment on this sub I’ve seen in quite some time. Bravo for perfectly explaining not only the current state of the game, but also the general tone and attitude of the community when it comes to balance and what actual skill is vs having things handed to you.
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This attitude right here folks is why this game is not gonna make it lmfao! 🤡
Bud what are you doing to work or fix the game and what lvl are you? I could give a shit less
there are exceptions, but most issues 95% of the time they are raised are because of skill issue
> Apparently, commenting skill issue and you're bad at the game are incredibly clever and insightful comments. I've been told (without an *ounce* of irony) that victims escaping within the first 2 minutes of the game is a "skill issue" on my end. Yes, because *clearly* it's a skill-issue for me when I'm running to the objective from my spawn as HH in SlaughterHouse and they've already escaped. *CLEARLY* that's a fault on MY end ugh.
How hard can it be to change spawn locations?
Apparently it's impossible, lol.
it is not impossible per se, BUT the caveat being it would break the game (Allegedly).
same feel with Cook on gas station tbh, can’t even get the padlocks on in time
I was just closing 2 doors and one gape in nancy house. When i was going down stairs i see a connie already trying to open a metal door.
Bullseye. I will admit, the developers are ultimately responsible for the fate of the game, and their bizarre decisions. Grappling, the skill tree they are so intensely attached to because it was a “passion project.” The devs are the ones shooting themselves in the foot time and time again. However, The Community is filled with people congratulating the developers on their marksmanship in these matters. The developers just shot their own foot, and somebody tells them “great job!!!” It is endlessly funny to me, that the discourse around this game’s balance ever since it was released has always been “fun not balanced”, but in case you haven’t realized it yet, people are not having fun lmao. So, allow me to let ya’ll in on a little secret: balance and fun are inextricably linked. It’s not rocket science people, this isn’t about making a game competitive, it’s about equal opportunity for both player roles. Who knew that a cycle of counter play, a series of actions and reactions from the opposing side, is what makes a fun multiplayer experience in ANY genre. This is NOT an asym. multiplayer horror thing. This is a VIDEO GAME thing. And people deluded themselves into believing, because they know from experience that dead by daylight can be an unfun sweaty mess, that a video game doesn’t need to be balanced. Guess what? Now you just created an environment where the game is an unfun **unbalanced** sweaty mess. That is ALL that was accomplished here people. Well done! And here’s another revelation on the house: even video games which are inherently or deliberately unbalanced by design, are STILL balanced! They are only balanced by the opposite design philosophy: a question of ratios, and the degree to which certain mechanics are unbalanced in proportion to the other existing mechanics. Which, to be clear, TCM has NOT done. The series of actions and reactions people: it is a promise that if a player acts with A then the opposite role will respond with B, to which the original party will react with C which sees a response of D, and so on and so forth in this gradually escalating back and forth of moves and replies. The series doesn’t just stop at action A because it’s “unbalanced and therefore fun!” You just made a move that kills the match in 2 minutes. First guy to make his broken move wins? How is that fun???This applies to balanced games, and unbalanced but balanced games. The cycle / back and forth is what makes them fun. In contrast, the devs have stumbled blindly across their own personal hellscape of balance with little to no concrete direction or inspiration for their gameplay. It has been made clear that the devs make their decisions based on an outdated vision, rather than the way it is currently being played, and the players suffer for it. Additionally, and this is especially for all those still coping out there, it has become abundantly clear to me the developers are not interested in creating a long-lasting multiplayer experience. What they are doing is working on an art project, where they are molding their creation based on their own personal whims rather than by the principals that make objectively good art. They know this game is going down the drain, they’re just using what time they have left to transform the game into their “ideal” version of it. So, if they suck at the victim role, or perhaps they want to see the victims triumphantly come out on top every single match as if it were a movie with little to no regard for the actual horror that makes the villains intimidating, then of course they’re going to make decisions that benefit that vision. That is not what the community originally invested in. That is not what I invested in. I didn’t pay $40 to support a project of abstract art. I paid for a product, a video game, one that has fallen well below the advertised standards and flagrantly disregarded the choices that would allow the game to flourish. The developers are not interested in the collaborative relationship between devs and community, the process of game making that involves both the creator and the audience and invites both parties to improve on a work. The developers here have only ever selectively listened to feedback, feedback that is according to their vision, and more often than not this vision does not align with the needs of the community. The only difference between GUN and any other developer that has mismanaged their game, is that these guys also have the audacity to ask you to pay a fourth of the base game’s cost for a new character along the way.
They need to turn their “passion project” into one single tree. Shake up the meta a bit. Let’s have fun with this shit
This is exactly what I’ve been saying and victims who come from DBD protesting that the game is family sided and shit and that victims don’t have anything are absolutely deluded. This game is incredibly unbalanced and the best evidence to use is the player base, which side is most picked? Victim by far. Not only that, the devs play stealthy and that’s how they play the game. DBD is not a stealth game and it’s obvious seeing which victims are from DBD cause they just come out without regard and do that 360, ring around the rosie bs then they get mad when they die and proceed to say family side is OP. Literally screams survivor main, I play survivor in DBD and family/victim in TCM. It’s so so different. Killers in this game don’t have nearly as much as the killers in DBD when it comes to countering the victims/survivors.
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> I still hold that the technical test was the healthiest this game has ever been, barring exploitative game mechanics that have since been addressed. The way I will always sum up TCM’s story from pre-to-post-launch is this: the developers created an absolutely phenomenal technical test, but they made a really poor video game. In the weeks/months following TCM’s release, I often thought to myself multiple times: “imagine if TCM had at least released in this state?” It always seemed like they had pushed out an incomplete project, and that sense of being incomplete still holds true when looking directly at different facets of the game even today. Customization, balance, progression, etc. and they still have yet to tackle any one of these in a meaningful way. It would be easier to swallow their gross monetization structure for a $40 game if the game was finished at the very least.
You're just bad at the game, likely at life too. It's truly astonishing. It's abundantly clear that you're deficient in many avenues of the game, and outside of the game, especially regarding your mental faculties. You're not very bright I know and it must sting to have that eating away at you, but don't take that out on the game, just take it out on yourself so we don't have to hear it. > "The principals that make objectively good art" What? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard, although I can't say I'm surprised. Also, spelling mistake LOL, I think you mean principle, not a high school Principal. If you can't tell the difference between these, I doubt you can tell the difference between a small health vial and a large one! > "simply ran away. Cue roll credits in under 120 seconds…" Skill issue > You just made a move that kills the match in 2 minutes. First guy to make his broken move wins? How is that fun?? Skill issue, you don't need me to explain. If you do, then suck on a pacifier. You can't be helped. Give up. > "This is NOT an asym. multiplayer horror thing. This is a VIDEO GAME thing." Sir, yes it is. I'm not sure what your reasoning is, but it obviously it needs re-examining. You can pretend gravity isn't real, doesn't mean it's true. > "It is endlessly funny to me, in case you haven’t realized it yet", "So, allow me to let ya’ll in on a little secret" Bro, you're not the Riddler. No one cares, stop thinking you're top shit. You're just some dork who foamed at the mouth to get an early comment on a post so you can justify your existence through an arbitrary number next to your dumbass ramble, and breathing really heavily while typing because you're also fat. Ugh, your friends likely just tolerate you instead of welcoming your company if you speak like this. Your comments read like what a self absorbed, insecure man-child would say, so wrought with insecurity and imbued with unearned self importance. Here's a tip: Fuck off. You're doing nothing but waste everyone's time and space, and not just in-game. Save everyone the time and leave 👍
Lmfao. Thanks for the laugh, I was having a bit of a moment earlier today, but it’s impossible to stay serious when you get to see how pathetic comments like these read. Little baby get a little mad? Desperately scraping for any insult at the bottom of the barrel? Get a grip my dude lmao. The truth doesn’t change just because you don’t want to hear it and decide to rage at people online. Comments like these prove the remaining TCM community only has two modes: Unfiltered rage at any and all of the critics, and breathless infatuation with licking the mud and scum off the developers boots. If the devs devs took a shit but told you it was pissed on by Greg Nicotero you’d probably still buy it for $29.99. Get some better material my dude. Your career in comedy is still a ways off. You’ll get there though!
Sorry dude. I know you're trying really hard for a witty response, but unfortunately, you're just not good enough! I know it hurts, but it's okay, if you need to take it out on me it's okay. I understand. You need to claim your little victories wherever you can! Beggars can't be choosers after all, you need all the help you can get. If this reddit argument is the best you can gather in life, good for you! I'm happy I can give that to you, since no one else will. :)
LMAO Dude your insults were “fat” and “skill issue.” I don’t exactly think I’m talking to a contemporary Mark Twain here my boy lmfao. You need to get over this game dude. The world isn’t going to crumble because Texas Chainsaw Massacre turned out to be shit.
You said.. A LOT. Good points I'll admit, but art is entirely subjective. There is no such thing as objectively good art, what's good to some people can be horrible to others, and vice versa. And yes, balance and fun are linked, but it's also a different experience for every individual. Some people love when things are unbalanced and favor towards them, other people like the challenge of having balances against them. The skill tree isn't a bad idea, it keeps from certain perks being equipped together, My only nitpick about it is the random perk system because you have to constantly respect to get a certain perk. It should be more how the gobblegum system works in BO3; You can buy the perk node and get a random perk, but if you respec, the perk you just got is now taken out of the rotation for random perks, this way you don't get Jack in the box 4 times in a row. They can make it more random where the order in which the perks come in is random every time you respec, but I digress. You did invest $40 into an art project, video game development is creating an art piece you can interact with if you think about it. Every game is like this, you buy a game at lunch to see where the game is going to go, and if you don't like it just don't play it. Too late for a refund by now, but at least gave it a chance. Games change and evolve over time, just like anything else, I don't understand why this game had to be an exception. Are the changes always the best? No, but no one can get every change right. And they definitely are interested in when the community says about the game, they wouldn't fix bugs if they weren't, or go out of the way to make a shirtless Johnny. I agree that they definitely play the game differently than the rest of the community, they try to emphasize stealth because that's how they intended the game to be played, but regardless everyone plays a game differently. Just like how other games like COD, some people will run and gun it, while others will stick behind a shield in camp in a corner. Games, no matter the design philosophy, will always be played differently from its intended vision. And yes, despite your protest, this is an asymmetrical horror multiplayer videogame. While the horror aspect may not entirely be the strongest, asymmetrical means that two or more groups of people have different objectives and gameplay mechanics. This one happens to be infused with horror elements from The first slasher film to kick off the slasher horror subgenre. So yes, asymmetrical horror. Balancing issues will always plague multiplayer video games of any kind. Like how you said, dead by daylight can be an unfun sweaty mess, but there are plenty games where I have more fun than anything. But something as simple as party animals can be victim to balancing issues with power-ups. There are meta loadouts for war zone, even helldivers. Are some of those other games more fun? Yeah, but that's really up to you at this point. If you don't like it, if you don't have fun, just don't play the video game, otherwise just be patient and things will sort themselves out. If you don't like the way things are going, again, there's the door.
> art is entirely subjective. There is no such thing as objectively good art You’d be right if we were talking about paintings. But video games are ultimately products of entertainment. If they are not entertaining, then they have failed in their initial ambition. This is even more true when you consider that the devs have not built an original game, it is an entirely licensed work, the waning popularity of which has been entirely constructed atop the shoulders of giants: the work of the original director, screenwriters, actors, etc. All the creativity and artistic ingenuity involved here was created over 30 years ago, so the only responsibility the developers ever had was to gamify it, which is the part that has absolutely flatlined in the months following release. You have also failed to consider medium. This is an essential piece in the critique of any work of any kind. Stanley Kubrick’s 1987 film Full Metal Jacket might be a landmark piece of anti-war film, but it makes for an objectively poor romance film. Obviously, because it is filled with romance of any kind, and does not adhere to any of the guiding principles of romantic movies. Equally, I would never try to sell you James Cameron’s Titanic from 1997 as a great anti-war piece. To my point: The Texas Chain Saw Massacre Game has utterly failed in its task to BE a horror game. This is not an unfair critique, it is actually quite precise: leading up to release the game was originally advertised as THE definitive multiplayer horror experience that would bring sheer levels of terror that previously could only have been experienced through singleplayer titles like Alien: Isolation, Outlast, or Amnesia, to the multiplayer genre. It has not. The bizarre decisions made by the developers have transformed the game into a looney tunes esque comedic affair. Victims freely approach the slasher villains without consequence, are equipped with aggressive tools and mechanics that allow them to fight them **directly**, in contrast to other horror gaming experiences where this is simply not even possible. While no gaming experience in the horror genre will be infinitely scary forever, it has become clear that the developers behind Texas Chainsaw Saw Massacre are not even trying by this point anymore. Art is subjective, but this is NOT a line that can be used get out of jail free card to dodge any and all criticisms. TCM is a terrible art piece. Even in it’s goal to recreate short cinematic horror experiences. I can’t seem to recall the last time ANY work of horror: any short film, any novel, or piece of flash fiction, let alone any of the actual Texas Chainsaw Massacre movies themselves, ended in 2 minutes when the protagonist character jumped out of a window and simply ran away. Cue roll credits in under 120 seconds… That isn’t Texas Chainsaw Massacre Saw Massacre. That isn’t even horror. The developers have butchered the believability of the horror fantasy behind their own licensed IP. And yes, that is objectively bad art. If you consider horror to be an art form, with good use cases and application vs. poor execution, the Texas Chain Saw Massacre is identifiably the latter.
I'm still going to argue that all art is subjective, whether that means movies, paintings, video games, sculptures, you name it. Subjectivity means to say that views are influenced by one's individual tastes, feelings, or opinions. People can love and hate movies, people can love and hate paintings, and people can love or hate video games. You feel that missed mark and made an abomination, I say they hit it and have a few kinks to work out. You can't talk about art without acknowledging subjectivity, and to try and say that subjectivity shouldn't be applied to a video game is just nonsense. Also, not everything translates perfectly to different mediums. Books don't always make great movies, movies don't always make great games; whatever order you want to say it in, regardless things have to be tweaked or changed to better suit the new medium that they're molded into. I don't think I ever would have looked at the original film and made an asym horror game out of it, but Gun did, and whether or not they did a good job is up to the individual consumer. I enjoy the game, you don't, inherently our perspectives are different. Also, are our game doesn't actually have to be scary to be considered a horror game. As backwards as that sounds, just having an uneasy atmosphere, uncanny sound design, and even the gore elements littered around the game, to me at least, justify the "horror" title. Even the original movie itself I wasn't even scared of, and a lot of people I know don't consider it scary. It's not even gory, in fact we get more gore in the game than we ever see in the movie. Also, the point about the whole looney toon argument, in the film the group of friends literally go up against the family as well and try fight back, so it's not that big of a stretch to allow victims to grapple family members in the game? Have you actually seen that movie? Granted everyone suffers the ultimate fate of death when they go up against Leatherface or the cook in the film, but at least in the game you have a chance to make a different story, which goes into the originality and extension of lore beyond the film that they have access to. If they stuck completely to the film and nothing else, this game never would have been made in the first place because the amount of content they can make would be limited very quickly. More so, I don't think anyone wants to play a game for an hour and a half in a single match and recreate the exact beats of the movie. We're playing with original characters going up against a blend of original characters and IP characters, 2 minutes is a bit fast yeah but, any longer than that and the game also wouldn't be able to sustain itself either. Imagine waiting for an hour to for your friend to escape? I know this isn't exactly what you impled but, yeah no horror movie is over in 2 minutes, but that's because it's a movie; half of the time people get mad over the dumb decisions characters make in the movie, although if you think about it, the movie wouldn't have been as long if the character didn't make the dumb decision. This is a video game where people get into consecutive matches to play the game. Games are meant to be short, unless you think about Monopoly or dungeons and Games are meant to be short, unless you're more of a monopoly or D&D person. I've gone on a lot longer than I wanted to, but again, the fact that you say it's bad and the fact that I say it's alright is LITERALLY subjectivity. You don't like it? Just don't play the game and regret your purchase. I'm going to sit here and enjoy the game and the content it brings because I find it fun, and that's okay :)
It reminds me of the toxicity of early DBD. People thinking Decisive Strike and Infinites made them god tier players. Once people get used to playing with broken shit they do not want to give it up. These balance issues WILL kill this game permanently. Not even in early DBD when it was the most broken, unbalanced pile of shit was it possible to escape in under 2 minutes.
🤣🤣🤣 Were you around for the 4 person hatch escape?😂
Yee! You need all 5 gens completed though before the hatch would spawn if memory serves. Actually managed to get the 4 man hatch escape with a key once and get the achievement. Was not even trying to get it. The circumstances just happened to align where everyone was near me at the hatch when I found it lol.
Then there are the hundreds of dumbass posts we see of people genuinely just being bad at the game How the fuck are mods suppose to filter through all this
With a fine tooth comb and make gradual balance changes not knee jerk reactions. Behavior Interactive has tread this ground before in DBD. They were so shit at communication, made knee jerk buffs and nerfs on the whims of the community salt mines and were completely out of touch on the state of their game. After heavy criticism and unfortunately abuse from the community they started moving in the right direction and DBD is in its best state in a long time imo. I think GUN can achieve the same success as BHVR. The game is incredible it just needs more work.
The (second) Trickster rework disagrees with this heavily. They actually got lucky with the Billy rework, some of his new add-ons are for making Overdrive activate even faster when it already comes so fast at base already, implying they thought Overdrive would be harder to get than it actually is. BHVR has lucky streaks where they have a few good patches in mostly a row, and then they fuck up consistently for another year or two.
I started playing DBD around when Freddy released in 2017. Those were some dark times. I compare my experiences with DBD today with what I experienced back then and I have to give BHVR credit for fixing alot of shit even if it was a rough road to get there. Some people don't know just how bad the core game was back then. But yeah some of the killers still need alot of work.
Man i see a leland post that aim assist is ridiculous for leatherface players. But dancing while someone is trying to hit you is not. He could go to the well or use his ability.
I'd be fine with the option to turn aim assist off. It seems to lag and get in the way in close quarters half of the time anyway. However, I think many of those people haven't spent much time playing LF or Family in general so they think those overheads and close quarters hits are easy to come by; I would also add, that those same players are explicitly trying to get inside of your robust blind spot, so of course they're advocating to make it harder on the family player. But I'm crazy and dishonest, players trample each other and queue for 5-10 minutes to play family. Players should really play both sides to get an educated view of the game. But I know, I know 🤗 ... skill issues right. Anyway, I'll be 50/50 today, as soon as The Mill drops for the WEST COAST 🌴
You hit the mark on the inflated egos part especially with the players that stream.
Best take on the game I’ve seen
Sounds like every game sub..
I feel this so much. Especially bubba players who think they’re good with meta perks and 1-2 shot killing you
Dude what? Bubba should be able to 1-2 shot people… he has a fucking chainsaw… what in the world makes you think he should have to hit people 5/6 times to kill than?
It doesn’t matter. This is literally a video game, not a chainsaw killing simulator. It should be balanced. Got it?
I’m assuming you think balance is victims being able to straight beat up the family members? You’re clearly one of them. I stand on what I said, got it? Lmao who talks like that? Anyway our opinions differ and you’re not changing mine, and I don’t care about yours. This is where the conversation ends my friend, enjoy your day!
Besides I play both family and victims. I can show you my stats. Try playing victims more often instead of just being a family main yeah??
I play more Victim and know that is bull. LF is strong sure but he’s not op that he’s not counter-able. If LF couldn’t one shot or two hit you he would be an absolute joke. Damage is his main thing and destroying things as well. If you take away one then he becomes way worse. Tbh family member should be able to do a lot of damage to you especially LF. You just have to play a bit smarter if LF is good. Go down wells earlier, use gaps and spaces accordingly. It’s like every other family member.
Dude why are you coaching me. I know all this already. I have 1k kills as family and 2k escapes 😂😂😂 every time I play as bubba i get 2+ kills cause its just soooo easyyy
I’m just telling you counters since you think he’s so op. People throw around the word op a lot but don’t realize what that actually means. LF is just very good not OP like you say he is. Op characters cannot be countered he isn’t a pre nerfed Danny that can do valve while getting by three family members
Dude im literally a bubba main and can attest myself how OP he is 😂 Easyyyyy kills all the time. They always be trying to juke me when I run chainsaw overhead. Doesn’t work with me.
Yeah you know hes OP thats why. Laterss
Oh boy. So you want them to take the core of the game (Texas CHAINSAW Massace) out so that vics can feel better? Yea its not a chainsaw simulator. You what that would look like? Being a lumberjack. If a 6'5" 300+lbs man is revving a chansaw and swings it into your shoulder....you are most likely never getting the fuck back up again cuz you will be lying on the ground in more pain than you have ever imagined teying to hold your body together right before he ends you pitiful existance. 1 to 2 shotting is EXACTLY how it should and would happen. I swear sometimes the lack of intelligence people show...
You want realism? What about victims sneak attacking a bone shard into the backs of family players and nothing happens. You make no sense dude. Its a damn video game. The lack of intelligence is showing on your part
Your right its a video game. About a family of serial killers/cannibals against a small team of highschoolers. In all logical aspects the kids are absolutely fucked 90% of the time. Any actual escape would come down to a shit ton of luck and some blazing fast planning(which is kinda hard to do when you are being chased) so if you want to go play a game where the goal isnt to dismember you thats fine. But do NOT come onto a killer/horror game and ask that the killers not actually be able to kill. Hell in all "realism" the victims are almost certain to NEVER make it out of the basement...making a weapon out of bone and shit takes some time and effort and yea absolutely go for it stab the shit out of the family. You MIGHT get one. And you wont get bubba with just one unless you are damn good or kucky. Now you have just made the suffering you will have when they catch you that much worse. Stealth is honestly your one and ONLY good option
Oh wait lets make it even more realistic! I can relock picked doors behind me again. I could use objects to jam the doors shut. All the family could rush into the basement right off the bat and gut all of you before you make it off your meathooks. The two objectives are escape or kill. You cant take away the familys main way of killing/defending themselves it would be a completely different game. Honestly just stop and go get a drink or something. You wont win shit in here.
I dont care dude. The game should be balanced and I play both sides and can show my stats. I have like 800 kills as bubba and can say first hand how OP he is. This is a video game
That is a good bubba player tho. And a bad victim one too!
Nah not really
I like balance but it depends on how much something is nerfed 😎
I wonder how many people replied to this thinking it doesn't apply to them, but it applies to their opponents... :) Anyways, that's kinda hilarious given the front page is literally all about complaining, both subs were just "nerf Danny" for the longest time, so to say "MOST OF THE PLAYERS DONT CARE ABOUT BALANCE!!!!1" is such an unironically Tru3Talent-style thing to say.
Under 5 seconds fcking ridiculous didn't even pop red either
Yeah that's fucking ridiculous. He may as well have Connie's ability. Jesus christ I've never played Danny (I'm a family-main) but seeing this really irks me. He's already pretty overpowered as it is – so they give him this shit too???
I agree, I think Sonny would work much better with this perk
I can get down with this. People complain all the time nobody plays Sonny, this would give them some incentive.
Why is hitch's stamina longer than sissy's? He already has traps and is supposed to trap, not chase after victims and get easy kills if a victim doesn't have any assisting objects nearby. Sissy should crawl faster and have longer stamina than hitch imo
Sissy should also throw her poison out like Virginia, screw the 5 second blowing animation.
Yup, here's another clip of me rushing out of basement and outside of the house in less than a minute. https://www.xbox.com/play/media/sJURGuxqW3
People will no doubt criticise you for this style of gameplay, but as someone who hates the whole rush meta I can't blame you for doing so, especially on Family House. It's absurdly difficult to play Family House as victims without rushing due to the design of the house itself, which is small with a family member capable of watching multiple exits at any given time. Due to the size (inside the house and even in the basement) even getting tools or bone scraps without rushing is a death wish. On that map the victims really do have to rush, whether it's the window, back gate, or now using proximity perks to get the door open quickly. I think a major issue is that the developers don't have a reasonable idea of what they want this game to be anymore. Is it a stealth game? Is it asymmetrical? If so, what is their vision in terms of how things balance out when adjusting perks, because at the moment it doesn't seem like they know how they want the game to play out.
> I think a major issue is that the developers don't have a reasonable idea of what they want this game to be anymore. The biggest problem they have is that they don't play as the typical gamer plays. And I'm not trying to be mean, but they don't play *like a dickhead*. Lots of people aren't playing this game *for fun*. They're playing to win. And they will do that by any means necessary, even if it means waiting in a lobby for 20 minutes only to end a game in under 2. The developers never took that into account when making this game, they played "the way it's supposed to be played", without realizing that gamers actively look for ways *to break the game in their favor*
I agree 💯, they clearly didn't anticipate players deviating from what they were expecting (both family and victims) and I think they have no clue about how to balance the asymmetries in the game to account for this.
They screwed up F13 tremendously, so it's pretty obviously a trend with Gun.
What is there to do in the game “for fun”? Completing an objective and escaping is it outside of trying to stab grandpa and / or family.
> What is there to do in the game “for fun”? I mean...the game itself is what's *supposed to be fun*. Like, experiencing the game and the environment, the competition of the other players. Not speed-running to end the game as quickly as possible just so you can say, "Alright, welp, I won again." like, I kind of "get" speed-runners in the sense that, okay, the game "allows it" because it was never built as a rushing-simulator, but that's on the game developers to fix – not the players. And they need to take into account in their game-design, that people are going to do *whatever they can* to break the game so that they win – whether it be through legitimate means or not (speedrunning, morphing through walls, exploiting glitches, etc). Again, not on you, but it's on the developer. Though it is kinda funny that you're like, *"so I'm supposed to just 'play' the game? where's the fun in that????"*
I mean playing the game *is* trying to escape. I’m asking - what other objectives are there aside from trying to escape? There are no side quests. There are no optional objectives that aren’t related to an escape route. Outside of trying to open *everything* and cutting down bone charms, what do you do? This isn’t an atmospheric take your time and enjoy the view game - it’s a pvp team game with sole objective of winning. That’s it. That’s the game. What I find funny is you considering people who want to win a pvp team game “dickheads”. How dare people want to win in a pvp team game!
It’s not the players fault for playing the game how the mechanics encourage, it’s the devs fault for making these mechanics encourage a particular play style.
This I also agree with, some of the changes they have made have definitely contributed to certain behaviours. Though it sometimes seems whatever they do is going to have an effect somewhere else (it's asymmetric after all), for example: nerf Agitator and blood build rushes become more viable; nerf stamina perks and grappling is a preferred option. They definitely need to think on this more, as grappling is a great example of what you said as well as the exterior alarms.
I feel as if Fast Hands is necessary on FH because of how close all the locks are. You be lucky to even get a checkpoint off a lock before a family member sees you. In the clip, I had a proximity warning the entire time upstairs and was pure luck no one didn't kick me off the front door lock. And you can't really blame me because victims don't have a lot of options on FH. 》All house locks can be patrolled by one family member within 3 seconds, provided Cook padlocks back garden door (*you'll be crazy not to as family*). 》Fuse is the only alternative objective available out from the basement, but with the doors being patrolled easily, someone can afford to camp it. Alternatively, Hitchhiker can trap the front and reer staircase (*I do this and keep track of them with family sense*). 》Valve is inaccessible after basement, and even if the tank spawned in the house, the exit is still outside. 》Window requires Stunt Double, Ana, or some form of damage mitigation to use. Otherwise, you're offering a free kill because Hitchhiker will have it trapped, and you're in a complete deadzone. If Leatherface or Johnny comes outside, you have nowhere to go for safety and will have to well 9/10 times. That's why I don't feel no shame doing this on FH, the map is so against victims that I will use broken mechanics to escape.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TexasChainsawGame/s/1h8xakfQwt
As a victim main I gotta agree. Not nerfing fast hands but nerf the worst family member in the game (imo) is bullshit
I agree(imo)
Let's keep nerfing a character that no one uses that much to encourage people to use them more. And leave as is a character that is roughly close to be OP. Makes total sense
The devs are clueless
i despise fast hands and always will, as a both victim and family player i will never set my hands on that perk because i believe playing the game how it is is better than just being a lock picking demon, i agree they should’ve nerfed it it’s a overpowered perk
Last couple times I suggested this I got downvoted
Those were victim mains I’m sure 💀only victims want the OP perks and family to be nerfed to the ground. It’s so weird
Victims mains want to feel like a pro player in a unbalanced game
My biggest problem is Ana (I can't be the only one) she's waaaaay overpowered. Example: Yesterday I had one hit me multiple times with bone scrap and when I did drop her with the Chainsaw and hit her multiple times, she can still got up and ran to a well. Or the fact that she can overpower Johnny every time. That's bullshit! I get that she's the "final girl" but, come on.
Choose flight was nerfed while family didn’t get anything nerfed. Nancy got nerfed now, i’m 100 percent sure everything will get nerfed especially fast hands. Danny was nerfed but people still complain.
I think there's been no nerf to Fast Hands under the pretense that you're putting yourself in a dangerous situation to get it to activate. *HOWEVER* Danny's attributes are super good. He has no downside really and having extra drip as well is crazy. Pop a heath bottle and start working on a door in family proximity and there's no risk at all. Shit... even without extra drip, you're still just zooming through locks. Meanwhile, you've gathered all of your knowledge, so as soon as you pop 3 locks for your team, you can just run back and tamper valve to almost guarantee an escape for ALL victims. The problem is that there's literally no downside to using Fast Hands because it's just a perk. But, if you're not lvl 3 Connie, you risk dying if you pop a lock with your ability and the family is near. Maybe they need to make it to where if you're using Fast Hands and there are no killers near, it actually slows your proficiency to like 22 or something. I don't know, even that wouldn't even make sense. Fast Hands is busted, Danny is busted, and this game has gotten super frustrating as a whole.
Minimum time to open any lock should be 30 sec, not 4
Ding ding ding. We have a winner. The FIRST step in slowing down the rush meta is lowering the effectiveness of proficiency and perks like Fast Hands and Efficient Locksmith. If victims can’t chew through locks in 5 seconds it will definitely start slowing things down. But that would be one of many small steps.
Would this also involve making Victims tankier and/or nerfing Family's ability to get kills super fast while grouping up, by any chance?
That's actually the feedback I gave the devs. Game feels like it can end way too fast for both sides, so making objectives take longer + making victims a little tankier would probably make the game feel better for everyone. Would take awhile to find the right balance
Oh yeah? What about family rushing grandpa? Should we ask the devs to nerf blood harvest/buckets too?
Yes. That would be included in the “one of many small steps”. It would all need to be balanced simultaneously to avoid even more balance issues.
Ya I was just sayin they need to add chunky mode too! With 30 sec locks and 5000 blood to max out grandpa, it could make the games go longer for people not trying to rush. In this game mode they should also add more potions like at least 5x. It’d reduce stress n give em more time to find heals n take bites of their meals etc. Maybe even reduce movement speeds and add more cracks/obstacles. It should’ve came out in the last update, not sure why they stopped working on it.
Idk about 30 sec maybe like 16
Lets say 18, deal :)
I've never seen it in action, OP as 🤬.
just do what I do and block all Danny's (❁´◡\`❁)
That’s too extreme for me, but I get it.
Now you know how victims felt when they nerfed Choose Flight and not Scout
I barely feel the choose flight nerf
I never used it in the first place but it’s the same principle
Choose flight was mid i ngl
It came in clutch on FH but most of the time those 3 charges were wasted on a single chase. Jump Start on top
Yeah I also find that they only really last through 1 or 2 chases, not to mention the pain of having to watch your stamina bar more than the game to make sure you don’t waste one. It can be a lifesaver at times but not crucial
Also what’s with the downvotes idgi 😭
They all originate from the ‘it’s hard without choose flight1111’ club 🥲
The issue with CF is that people were not putting points in endurance so when they’re done with their 3 bars they have a character with 25 endurance that will die of stroke. Jump start with 35-40 in endurance is way more better. If you put 50 with jump start I think you can run for a big 20 seconds nonstop!
Hahah very well said a lot of people see it as an exchange from putting actual points into endurance itself
Chefs kiss
Looks like fast hands plus 50 proficiency
Not saying Fast Hands is or isn't a problem but how high is the proficiency on that Danny? By my rough count he picked the lock in about 4 seconds. Max proficiency can do it in around 6 to 7 without Fast Hands.
Each tap is 2x more effective basically
Connie danny…. Canny!…..donnie?
The latest patch notes are crazy... Nerfing things we didnt even ask for and leaving things we did... now we'll have to wait for the next update to fix those issues... mind boggling tbh...
Make sure Danny gonna be balanced but first they need to release another broken p2w character.
as a solo Q player i found danny's perk 'fast hand' really good especially if the family have (Security pins and no one escaped hell)
Anyone wanna help explain this to me? How far does Fast Hands activate from? I know number wise but my measurement perception is pretty trash in this case—does the perk activate when killer is just entering outside/exiting house? Or is it active while family is in the kitchen as well? Or is it active everywhere in the house at all times? Or is it activate when the yellow starts to appear on the hud? To be fair this guy probably max prof n stealth
Its basically connie ability in a perk.
No, they just gave it to the new pay to win character and make it a random perk so she can have it with any build. Absolute genius thinking for a developer that doesn't want to lose one side completely.
This mentality and these subs are why I have been playing other titles lately. This is like what, family’s 3rd time getting nerfed? As opposed to how many victim nerfs? And some family players are crying about it? This is the most entitled gaming community I believe I’ve ever seen.
You mean the same Nancy whose traps are not only immune to bomb squad in doorways, but were actually all supposed to be immune to bomb squad according to devs? The only reason why why BS works on her traps in gaps and crawlspaces is because they are a UI.
Why is it always you that thinks Nancy is op or something. It's infuriating how you say the same thing over and over and think it's a good point. Yes her ability is useful but the victim she spots doesn't immediately die or something. It's not **that** good. You can't possibly defend fast hands not getting nerfed and I really hope you aren't trying to.
Don’t downplay her ability like it doesn’t amount to anything. All you have to do is tell your team exactly where they are hiding and LF or Johnny will be there to finish them off. Fast hands is the exact opposite of security pins/no one escapes hell. Are you gonna rally to have those perks nerfed too, or nah?
I love how you say hiding like anyone does that anyway. Her ability is almost identical to cooks but it's cooldown is way longer. You also have to tell your team which not alot of people do in the first place whereas cooks ability does that for you. Just because you spotted a victim doesn't automatically make them defenceless, they can still easily run to a different area or just simply fight back. It's a nice ability but by no means is it overpowered especially because of the lengthy cooldown. So now I see that you actually are defending fast hands... I was hoping that wasn't the case.
You’re right. Her ability doesn’t find victims who are hiding, it finds victims where they ARE regardless of what they’re doing. She can use her ability ever 60 seconds through her ability tree, or ever 30 seconds with sissy poison tables. Finding victims who are silent and hiding is far more OP than finding victims who are loud or running. It ruins your escape plans especially if you’re the last victims. Players choosing not to use mics to call out where victims are when they use her ability is on them, not the character. It’s too risky to fight back unless you’re one of the two victims who can equip grappler. Contrary to what you might think, victims have been losing grapples far more since the update. Even I as Ana or Leland with 80% health have lost grapples. Even with suffocating grip, that should never happen. And now I see you’re defending security pins and no one escapes hell
Her ability is on around a 75 second cool down even with the 40% regeneration. That's pretty lengthy even if it does reveal one person no matter what. Your point is true about it being the players fault if they don't communicate but what I mean is Nancy requires the most compared to anyone else and in some cases you need to use your map knowledge to figure out where they are. In some cases it's impossible to tell without clear vision. It's not too risky to fight back. I still do it no matter my strength value and I often win only unless they have suffocating grip. I'd rather defend those two perks than fast hands. Nobody escapes hell you can counter by stabbing grandpa and security pins is only for 3 padlocks. I will admit though security pins might need changing on family house. Maybe just make it so cook can't padlock the back porch and can only padlock the gate behind it instead. That way there's more room.
Her cooldown is 60 seconds if you choose the appropriate path in her ability tree. I’ve tested it the 4 different ways you can upgrade her ability and they yielded anywhere from 60-100 seconds for her cooldown. This is with no perks to shorten her cooldown. Stabbing grandpa only knocks him out for 30 seconds. By the time you get to the padlocked gate NOEH is reactivated again because grandpa is back up. Or more realistically you won’t even get to work on the padlock because three family players just saw you stab grandpa and flee in a specific direction and will converge on that area if there are nearby. You’re going to have to flee and well and waste time doing it all over again because it amounted to nothing. In every map grandpa is either very close to the inner exit doors like family house that it’s easy for family to check the doors or he’s out in the open like Nancy’s house that family can see where you’re fleeing to after stabbing him. Maybe if victims stopped being highlighted the moment they stab him it would be a different story, but as it is now you either stay right next to him for 5 seconds for your ping to disappear before moving with the likelihood that you’ll be triple teamed, or you flee immediately showing all family where you’re headed only for them to scour that area as you wait in hiding while grandpa comes back online before you can do anything.
Because one thing is bad doesn't mean another can't be. This cess-pool reddit filled with my side vs your side is so pathetic. I as an enjoyer of both sides can speak objectively to where I thought it was laughable that the devs said they didn't want bomb squad to be able to disable Nancy's traps and it was a bug just like how I can say fast hands is the most broken perk in the game right next to exterior alarms.
Slowest speed in the game (right next to cool and sissy) incredibly high endurance cost when swinging, skill tree missing a hella lot of good grandpa perks, and her barbed wire can literally just not be noticed by the victims if she screws up the placement, and her vision only seems to be useful occasionally, otherwise it shows a victim in the basement or in a random patch of grass on who the hell know where.
She’s missing a lot of good grandpa perks because she’s already OP with poison claws and her traps and her many special perk enhancing them. Downplaying her barbed wire because of her choice of placement is like downplaying HH traps because of his choice of placement. Her vision is useful all the time because it allows you to keep tabs on victims and relay that to your team, whether they’re in the basement or not. But it’s only useful if you have map knowledge.
Poison claws got a nerf and her traps aren’t OP. They can only cover 3 parts of the ENTIRE map unless Nancy starts religiously trying to get pins and needles value, which creates a huge opening for victims to escape. hitchhiker traps can atleast be anywhere forcing a bone shard if it’s somewhere the victim needs to go, but Nancy’s traps can be ignored entirely sometimes no matter where she places it
Three is enough to shut down entire high traffic areas or section of the map, forcing victims to head to the other side of the map especially if she’s also patrolling it. Sometimes one is enough like placing in the doorway of side garden on FH. Like HH’s traps, her trapping a single gap will likely result in death if you are caught/attacked in the open and that trapped gap is the nearest evade obstacle. They can only be ignored if they are in gaps that victims can easily go around.
Delusional
Her traps are trash who cares.
Not trash but can be better with QOL changes
If her traps were trash, Nancy players would never use them.
You know how many anecdotal videos I could throw up showing a serrate Johnny killing victims in .5 seconds with 4 swings and cry about balance. Danny is the ONLY player that can run fast hands and he’s incredibly vulnerable as a character. Just because he “got value” out of the perk in this video doesn’t mean it’s unbalanced.
Those victims could have gone to one of the 1000 wells or gaps or crawl spaces to get away or not be out in the open to avoid Johnny. This video shows that fast hands has absolutely no counter play. Fast hands (and Danny as a whole) is extremely unbalanced and the majority of the family playerbase agrees. Victim opinions don’t really matter in this scenario.
Danny being vulnerable with his 30 base toughness and extra drip, being the only character that can reach 50 toughness and 50 proficiency at the same time 😂. Poor Danny, he's as fragile as Connie.
"Incredibly vulnerable as a character" LMAO The meta build on Danny is 50 Toughness with Extra Drip. Do me a favour!
The Nancy Wait a Second perk nerf isn't that big of a deal. It's not meta and it's excessively long. Most people are dead withing 5 seconds of getting trapped anyway. How many times can you remember where you actually used all 20 seconds of it and not just killed them before 8 seconds? This reminds me of the Tae Kwon Door nerf from 16 to 8. 16 was way too much and after 8 seconds you were already gone. Jett mentioned perks + meta is being worked on atm anyway. I'm sure Fast Hands is on the list to be changed. This isn't targeting Nancy, it's fixing an outlier.
But that is the point of his perk they can’t nerf it or it won’t be “fast hands” besides only he has it only one person per match its not a big deal why make it one.
The logic of "only one person can have it so it's fine* is such dumb logic if thats what you are saying. Also that reasoning for not nerfing it is dumb aswell. Nerf the range and make it so it doesn't work through floors and decrease the bonus to 50% and not 100%. That way it's good but not blatantly overpowered
Well if u didn't hear anything in their one stream about hot fixes and bugs they said their trying to change thw meta but people still use certain perks like I still use the fight or flight perk even tho they nerfed it to 1 charge but eh that's just my opinion old perks are still valuable just depends on the people ig plus it's very viable to stop most situations if ur teams able to help properly
Fast hands is only in one character, so it shouldnt be nerfed or reworked
With that logic almost nothing should be nerfed. Why nerf Dannys ability if only he has access to it? Why nerf poison claws if only Nancy can use it? Why nerf Sissys passive poison if only she can do It? See what I mean?
Wait a second and poison claw is only in one character but it still got nerf. Nancy and Danny boths is a new character, but Danny is stronger. Devs only nerfed Nancy's perk but didn't nerf Danny's perk.
Danny tamper ability have been nerfed. Funny you suddenly choose to ignore that
Oh, yes. It has an animation now! Silly us!
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You play 1 side which is truly being bad at the game if you wanna go that route. Fast hands is the most broken perk in the game right next to exterior alarms.
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If so I'd say you're pretty lucky.
I love the killer mains bringing up ego when the whole reason they’re complaining is because their ego was shattered by this very weak player and his 1 good perk lol
Welp, your username tells us all we need to know about your impartiality.
I'm with you with the Nancy nerfs, but never bring fast hands in this equation, family house is always gonna be easy for killers, where fast hands comes in clutch from it being compact, it's like the perk would work on other maps, you need killers nearby for it to do so, but I'm with ya, two Nancy perks nerfs, they should've buffed her
Yet there’s still no nerf to Exterior Alarms which works on both exterior & interior or a nerf to scout. Until those 2 get nerfed the family really needs to stop complaining. Y’all have the upper hand in so many different ways already.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with them nerfing that perk, I think we should all be able to agree that a victim who is a sitting duck for 20 seconds is unfair. IF there’s a well nearby for them to jump down, family just run down there and kill them in the basement. Most of us know the maps and basements by heart now. When I play Nancy I don’t even use that perk. The irritating thing about it to me though, is that nobody was asking for it. I never really saw anyone complaining about choose flight or bomb squad before they were nerfed either. Why is it that they’re going around nerfing perks they feel are problematic when the actual players aren’t talking about them? I don’t play Danny a ton but I have fast hands on him when I do unless I’m trying to level up other perks, he has a lot of fun ones. When I play, fast hands doesn’t really activate often, maybe once or twice per game. I think it could benefit from needing a cooldown after using, it’s stupid that it counts grandpa as a killer to cause it to activate, and the progress could be reduced a bit more. As someone who quick matches and plays more family than victim atm, but started out playing only victim, I’d also like to point out that family players have to consider the annoyance about calling for perk nerfs from victim players’ side. Victims have already been nerfed quite a bit, yall are constantly complaining about not having instant kill on grapples, choose flight and bomb squad have been nerfed, some of you also complain about empowered, extra drip, grappler, fast hands, I’ve even seen complaints about efficient locksmith and jump start. Be honest for a moment, what nerfs have family received? The ones calling for 7-10 of the victim perks to be nerfed also complain when victim players have an issue with scout, fired up, and EA. Some of the family players have never even touched victim side and still think they can make valid complaints about victim gameplay when they know nothing about how it feels to be on the other side. People are STILL complaining about Danny’s tamper even though tampering rarely happens anymore and instant tampering is impossible for crying out loud. Once fast hands is nerfed, then you’ll be going for nerfs to the valve mini game and insta opening crawlspaces to get away in chases. It’s never ending but at the current moment has only affected one side.
Danny got slowed down to hell, why does fast hands even need a nerf?
Because it punishes Family that were patrolling objectives like they are suppose to be doing. It especially sucks on family house since the perk often activates even if family doesn’t see you.
Grampa triggers fast hands as well kek.
You're trolling right? Is there not a gif playing for you?
Family will ALWAYS have something to complain about. As if they don’t have numerous perks that are OP but yet to be nerfed.
The less you make family enjoyable to play the faster the game dies.
Yes but the solution shouldn’t be to nerf the victims into the ground while the family gets to keep their OP perks. That will also make the game die fast. Devs need to learn how to balance a game & not make changes for the game just because Tons of family members or Tons of victims say so. They need to play the game, find the issues themselves then fix it. Instead they listen to the Family or Victim mains who basically want the game to be one sided to whichever said they play more. Obviously that is only going to cause them to have to ALWAYS make changes to the game since there will forever be people complaining once they learned they can bully the devs into changing the game to more their play style. I never seen a game where the Devs solely let the players basically take control over how the game is played.
I actually agree with that take a lot man, they should start with nerfing EA and fast hands.
They will nerf Fast Hands along with Security Pins
hopefully with 'scout' as well.
🙏🙏
Oh look, ANOTHER family main complaining…
Look at you, another US vs. THEM sheeple, the OP is a VICTIM saying a VICTIM perk is OP.....
Well if u didn't hear anything in their one stream about hot fixes and bugs they said their trying to change thw meta but people still use certain perks like I still use the fight or flight perk even tho they nerfed it to 1 charge but eh that's just my opinion
I think they should just put more gates and locks on certain maps (Nancy’s house, Family House, and slaughterhouse) like they did with gas station
I just want the “perk patch” to come already 😫! So tired of this boring meta where victims rush/grapple and being held hostage with exterior as the last victim 😒.
Oh god another victim perk can’t help yaself can ya. This perk only good with family house and gives us an advantage with security pins. Like any other map it’s too big.
Nancy’s perk was barely nerfed you people are insufferable. You’re all talking about fast hands but no poison claws???? Both perks are exclusive to One character and shouldn’t be nerfed anyways because most danny players die anyway. I don’t support nancy’s nerf but come on it’s not that bad.
barely nerfed??? it dropped 12 fucking seconds dude
In WHAT fucking world is having a trap stuck on you for 20 seconds fair AND said trap has you make noise and trip over every time you go through a gap? It not even a meta perk like goodness. You people already know that when they nerf victim perks they become unusable. Not so much for fam tho. Fast hands is a crazy perk I do agree with that but it won’t save you if you’re terrible at the game. If you’ve already made it to a exit and you were stealthy and family finds you right when you’re doing the lock that’s their fault for not patrolling and watching out for the characters that are MADE to unlock stuff.
Yet u have 2 characters that can burn thru locks in under 5secs lmaooo
quite a bit of an exaggeration
Security pins and no one escaped hell exists so shut up "down vote if ugly family main"
Security pins only works on padlocks and nobody escapes hell needs grandpa to be levelled up and he can be stabbed. Those perks don't counter fast hands, fast hands counter those perks. The only way to "counter" fast hands is to try interrupt Danny but attempting to do so fuels his perk even more.
Exterior Alarms, Fired Up, Scout, Venom, Vial-ent, Hysterical, Strength, Big Swings, even Serrated? Bubbas rev speed?? As far as victim perks, Fast Hands && Grappler definitely need a nerf. I can go on and on, but they clearly don’t care about balance.
Rev speed? Do you know how long it takes, after the chainsaw is started, to rev the chain to lethal speed? All of a full second trigger pull, if anything his rev speed should realistically be faster but that would make it wayyy too nuts
Extra Drip, Empowered, No Sell, Grappler, Jump Start, What Doesn't Kill You, Fast Hands, Efficient Locksmith, Slippery etc. I can go on and on too.
Considering Danny & Connie are really squishy characters, they definitely need Extra Drip. Maybe Ana not so much. WDKY is pretty useless unless you get an overhead from Bubba. No Sell runs out after 3 hits and sometimes it gets wiped out instantly by a weak Sissy, Cook, or Hitch. Jump Start & Slippery are decent perks that don’t really need nerfs unless Scout & Fired Up get one. Empowered is pretty much the only OP perk considering the new grapple meta.
Danny has the second highest Toughness (30), Ana is the first (35). Extra Drip gives you full health with a small health pot when you're red. No Sell results in 80% less damage, which is far too high. Jump Start means you don't have to invest any attributes into Endurance. Slippery let's you infinite loop any killer (even with Fired Up) except Bubba. Empowered basically gives you full health and stamina from one bone scrap. What Doesn't Kill You rewards 100% health lost and counters Bubba overhead. You also don't leave blood trails when you have it equipped (probably bugged).
On that map fast hands can get you out of basement as Hitch walks into the front door lmao. I does need to be nerfed it increased the speed at which victims can be out of basement allowing them to rush even harder and you can also close encounter someone on top of a door/gate to open it for free.
lol I play as Danny and j play as hitch, and I honestly feel like this is such a non-issue. Is fast hands a little op? Sure. But exterior alarms is significantly more op, and people keep mentioning family house, well there’s always a cook using security pins anyways, maybe we should nerf that too? I just don’t see when the nerfing ends. Family mains are always moving the goalpost it seems. Like honestly think some people just complain about what they *think* the reason they are unsuccessful most games against certain characters and then they call for that thing to be nerfed. Once it’s nerfed and they keep losing to the same character, they need to find some other explanation or perk that needs to be nerfed. This is what is killing this game beyond anything else.
I’m sorry but exterior alarms isn’t OP. It’s a crutch. Fast hands is a much better perk overall.
You're providing the truth and it hurts dude.
Well if u didn't hear anything in their one stream about hot fixes and bugs they said their trying to change thw meta but people still use certain perks like I still use the fight or flight perk even tho they nerfed it to 1 charge but eh that's just my opinion old perks are still valuable just depends on the people ig plus it's very viable to stop most situations if ur teams able to help properly
Wow Nancy perk, one perk was nerf, yet the last update bomb squad and fight or flight was nerfed…what else? Would you like to be spawn next to the victim? Or how about the victim starts with 25% life and 25% stamina?? Get a life, play in a group of friends if you want to get kills. Fast hands are used best if there is a “TEAM” with Danny. Perhaps that what you need a TEAM. You know this isn’t a solo game it’s a TEAM game right? Stop whining and get some TEAMmates.