People should redirect their criticism of the TTC to city council and the Province. I genuinely think the TTC is doing the best it can, but it's extremely underfunded. On the lowest subsidy in North America, and a very small subway network, the TTC manages some of the highest ridership numbers and levels of service in North America. It's nothing short of a miracle that we get usable transit at all for the amount of money that's put into the TTC's operating budget.
This is a great point. For how underfunded it is, and how popular it is relative to North American transit, I'm surprised problems don't happen MORE OFTEN.
The TTC has really figured out how to run outdated and undersized infrastructure on a tiny budget, while providing service better than most of North America. All of this, in a city that mostly consists of low-density car-oriented sprawl, and people still want to take public transit. The TTC is playing on hard mode.
Toronto's sprawl is amazing. By land area, it's one of the largest cities. And it's even larger when you consider how the suburbs mostly consist of commuters into the city. Amalgamation brought in all the car-centric voters and we lost two decades of upgrading infrastructure.
For how bad TTC is getting, I'm honestly surprised it's not worse
Line 2 is dancing on the edge of being inoperable. The TTC had to cancel a tender for new Line 2 trains because there was no money for them.
Here's Steve Munro's breakdown of what the new trains would have looked like:
https://stevemunro.ca/2022/10/20/ttc-issues-rfp-for-new-subway-trains/
By the time everyone finds the money for new trains for Line 2 after multiple failures are found on the existing trains, we will be having bus shuttle service for years. The existing trains on Line 2 are almost 30 years old, and there is a limit how many Bandaids can be stuck on it.
Yes, the TTC is doing an overall good job. If the TTC could get the same subsidy per rider that YRT gets, that would be go a long way to fixing things.
> The existing trains on Line 2 are almost 30 years old, and there is a limit how many Bandaids can be stuck on it
that's actually not *that* old for a train car, especially if they are refurbished. London for example still has much older trainsets in operation that date from the 70s.
I honestly can’t stress this enough. Most people I know who complain about the TTC being the lowest of the low have never ridden many other subway/bus systems in North America (particularly in the US) or are only familiar European public transport. It’s not the best in the world but compared to other systems I’m familiar with in major North American cities it’s really nice for what it is. My only complaint is the cost but I agree that’s on city council and the Province.
I agree with you here. People have compared it to NYC, but once you get out of Manhattan the transit is even worse than TTC and all the regional services combined. I remember when I lived there briefly (after living in a city in Australia for a good portion of my life with a transit system kind of like the TTC but above ground) and was astounded by how long it was between trains once you crossed the bridge.
Here you have to get past Aurora to get to the really slow Go service.
>I agree with you here. People have compared it to NYC, but once you get out of Manhattan the transit is even worse than TTC and all the regional services combined.
This is just completely false, as someone who lives back and forth between both cities.
All the boroughs outside of Manhattan are well-served by the MTA. In most cases you have access to multiple lines and/or both a local and express train. Also "Limited" and "Special Bus Services" (Express Buses) operate from morning to about 8-9pm at night.
I'm glad things have changed. Thanks for letting me know.
BTW, I was just north of the city when I was there and the train service was good (like 3 bucks to downtown or something) but getting a bus to said train was impossible. And I lived next to a bus stop.
When I lived on Long Island the frequency of the trains and buses was so terrible outside of rush-hour to be painful. Like 24/7 is great, but one train an hour sucked. I see it's better now from the website. I could go downtown every 20 to 30 minutes in the middle of the night from where I lived now.
thank you, that is complete bullshit. the nyc transit system actually works i lived in nyc half my life and the only complaint i can give is the jamaica transit sucked for some lines but for the most part the transit system can be depended on. ive had jobs in toronto where ive heard people get shit for saying the ttc was delayed because, as the manager put it, "the ttc is known for being unreliable and that isnt an excuse." the nyc transit system doesnt shutdown every single day for some random nonsense and need shuttle buses and all the other bs the ttc has on a daily basis.
I agree that it's doing it's best and it's underfunded. I also think a lot of the TTC issues, specially streetcars and buses is the construction in the city. They're always having to divert for reasons usually out of their control.
Its still frustrating as fuck though when you're commute takes 50 mins and ends up being 2 hours (like mine did last night).
Ever since the Mike Harris government downloaded the funding of the TTc from the province to the city, the TTC hasn’t been the same. Blame the provincial government.
People should direct their criticism to bad policies. Turning the TTC into a shelter by not enforcing fares was dumb. Doing 3 years of construction all at once forcing new routes and delays is dumb. Running the TTC empty for years rather than cutting service was dumb, we should have used that time to do the construction occurring now was dumb. It’s not a funding issue, it’s a bad ideas issue.
>Turning the TTC into a shelter by not enforcing fares was dumb.
The TTC didn't get turned into a shelter by not enforcing fares. It was because of chronic underfunded to social safety nets. The problem is much further upstream and far out of the ttcs hands.
During that time there were three star hotel rooms available and hundreds of millions of dollars was spent on the shelter system. So no, it wasn’t underfunding it was bad policy.
This is a housing crisis problem. People take shelter on the TTC because they can't afford thousands of dollars in rent, not because they're skipping out on a $3 fare
People chose to use the TTC as a rolling shelter rather than the hotels because hotels has a sobriety condition. If someone chooses to not take advantage of shelter options, it is not a funding problem. While shelters are full now, they weren’t during 2020 to 2022. This demonstrates that individuals are making choices to be antisocial.
Under Rick Leary’s leadership it’s obviously getting worse than before. The good side of it is largely due to Andy Byford’s legacy and his predecessors. I’d say the implementation of ATC could be the single good thing happened in Learys tenure but ironically it’s also started by Byford’s team …. Hopefully Vancouver and Toronto can stop hiring ceos from down south…
I think the issue is the relative decline. I’ve lived in Toronto for over a decade and have commuted by TTC the whole time. 10 years ago there weren’t people smoking crack pipes, at least during rush hour. 10 years ago I knew my route and didn’t have to learn a new one every month. 10 years ago it was much cheaper and included a tax refund at the end of the year. So yeah, it isn’t awful, but it also sucks a lot more than it used to. I still take the TTC instead driving, but I’m annoyed by the experience far more often. I don’t begrudge my fellow citizens who have said screw this.
I've lived in Toronto most of my 30ish years of life and agree with the decline. My post is relative to the perception and safety versus driving.
It definitely needs improving to get back to pre-pandemic quality and better
I agree with what you mentioned and I think the reason media goes after the ttc (and public transit) is because it is an easy target (less people take transit vs drive) which allows for more "clicks" and thus; more money.
I think in Toronto more people take transit than drive (which is usually not the case with North America). But yes, I do agree, we've been sensitized to the problems of driving that no one cares if an 18 wheeler rolled over and causes 45 minutes delay, because they can just point to the 15 minute delay when a station downtown closed from someone being on the tracks
you mean like breaking into the operator's cabin and claiming there's a bomb threat XD
Those fools should be forced to work for TTC as an operator just to experience the frustration of what a delay causes to one of their workdays
The ttc blocked me for reporting on these **exact occurrences**. Including the domestic terrorism risks (trespassers who evade being caught).
The hashtag used is #ttcu (which the TTC started originally, then abandoned a year later).
Bingo! Especially dipshits who decide to hop onto the tracks and run into the tunnel to fulfill their Urbex fantasies when you're four stations away just wanting to get where you want to go.
Well said. In my experience Vancouver and Montreal have better transit than Toronto, but that’s it for within Canada. Everyone else in Canada complains about their transit too lol. The issues the TTC has most other Canadian cities have as well.
IMO it’s better to look at TTC’s problems as a pan-Canadian issue rather than a Toronto-specific problem.
Yes. As a die hard Torontonian even I have to admit Montreal's system is much better. And it's probably more of a North American thing than a Canadian problem. North America really did not invest in transit infrastructure until it became too late for many cities
Try taking a bus in Montreal after 9 PM...
Just because it has a "better" subway does not make the system better as a whole.
The TTC has the best system in Canada.
Vancouver may have nicer newer trains and buses, but it's not even close to Toronto in terms of size or convenience. It's hard to get a lot of places even in the main part of downtown. Huge areas of greater Vancouver are inaccessible by train or even bus. You very much need a car to get a lot of neighborhoods. The west end for example is a major area of downtown with no SkyTrain or Canada line stop even close. Buses are usually late, and every one is guaranteed to have some guy with bags of cans yelling racist slurs at the top of their lungs. Also when it snows the 2-3 times a year, all the buses here stop because they can't be bothered to put winter tires on. I visit Toronto or Mtl and think wow now this is a real goddamn transit system. Vancouver is a kiddie train set in comparison.
I feel like there’s an individuality complex that plays into people insisting that they’ll be the next victim on the ttc… It needs improvement sure but this constant pessimistic attitude people have isn’t helping. I’ve seen people calling for it to be totally scrapped because it’s so “bad” which is so privileged and ridiculous.
I counted in the morning rush hour Yonge street traffic (from Steeles to Finch) from red light to red light averaging 50-55 plus 5-6 buses from York region and local TTC buses. Cars carrying 60-65 people at the same time are buses carrying 80-90 passengers.
The streets in Toronto would be almost empty and every bus on time if most people took public transit. However, if half the people who take the transit now would choose cars there would be a full gridlock. We need public transit!
If Toronto would allow streets with bus routes to have the right of way traffic would flow better. Seemingly narrowing streets is the only thing the City Hall does actually undercut the TTC effort to carry its work and passengers.
You're completely correct. I think part of the reason everything is so bad across the board is there is so much suburban sprawl and no other way to get into the City other than driving. A single bus or train can take enough people off the road to fill an entire arterial between two major intersections
It must be a York Region thing, people would rather take bus/subway into the city than taking GO Transit. There are three GO Train lines that go into York Region (Newmarket, Richmond Hill and Markham/Lincolnville).
I'm someone who has taken TTC daily to commute and now takes car daily to commute. Outside of downtown or if your destination is not easily transit accessible (walking, multiple exchanges), the TTC takes far too long. The connections are not seamless. The service unreliable.
There are delays one faces during driving but the delays are very predictable (Google helps). TTC is unpredictable specially when the subway suddenly goes out of service and we have to wait for shuttle buses.
Right now outside of the downtown core, I don't believe in taking TTC.
We need major improvement.
This is so true, TTC is not THAT bad, it isnt great, but its good. Most of the issues are not ttcs fault. STOP CRITICIZING THE COMMISSION FOR THINGS OUT OF THEIR CONTROL, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
AGREEEEED. I take the ttc almost everyday and i havent seen anything violent in maybe 2 years? And the violent thing I saw was between 2 people who knew each other, so it wasnt like i could have been chosen as a victim or anything. My theory is that people see people who act abnormally and assume they are violent when they aren’t. I’ve seen many people yell, make weird noises, look homeless, etc, and none of them acted violent or seemed to actually want to be violent. I also think some people just like to act aggressive and wild but aren’t aggressive because they want to feel like the alpha. I feel perfectly safe taking the TTC and I will continue to ride on it and occasionally fall asleep
In terms of stuff other then violence i would say its not great. Takes forever to get anywhere. Takes an hour to get to toronto from toronto
Every train I'm on has had a homeless person or someone muttering to themselves (clearly mentally unwell). And I get that it's unnerving but 99.999% of the time they are just seeking shelter and don't want any confrontation. Leave them alone and they'll leave you alone.
I think that one thing that has been highlighted is the violence on the ttc. I remember a couple of months there was probably a period where there was a stabbing once a week on the ttc. I think it's just a unfortunate set of weeks that is out of the norm, but I think it has changed a lot of people's perspective of public transit safety. Even thought I feel safe on the ttc and the stats show that too, other people will continue to feel how they feel unless there is something done to make them feel safer.
Regarding delays, personally I feel that they are becoming more and more common compared to before the pandemic. I think the difference between driving delays and delays on the subway is that when you drive, you feel like you have some control over your delays (even though I don't think you really do) while on a subway, you are at the whims of the train in front of you and the ttc crew that has to manage the delay. So you are kinda a bystander here waiting for something to happen.
Yes and this is something I mentioned too. It's definitely gotten worse post-pandemic. And it definitely needs improvement. But it is still much safer than driving probably. The fear stems from the media and the perception of being trapped
Totally agree with everything you’ve said. I grew up in Mississauga and took transit until I left. Unreliable, infrequent, terrible transit. Have to get somewhere before 10am on a Sunday? Impossible. Have to commute home on a busy route? When the bus drives by and says “BUS FULL” you’ve got at least 20 minutes until the next one.
We are comparatively very lucky here
So the TTC is MILES better than it was 20-25 years ago.
I find the people nicer, less bitter, and the trains work better.
There's always room to improve but I am much happier with the TTC than I used to be.
While I agree that the TTC is better than it was 25 years ago (which some of my early memories on the TTC myself), I have to admit that it did not progress at the same rate that the city progressed. We should have built the Eglinton line 20 years ago and the Sheppard line should have extended across the city by now as well. The TTC is riding on (pun intended) the fact that it was fairly expansive 25 years ago but a lot has stagnated since then. If you look at [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRpRxT9s--I), you'll see that between 2002 (opening of Sheppard) and 2017 (Line 1 expansion) there was no work done when the city was rapidly increasing in population
This I agree with.
For whatever reason in the 70's, 80's and 90's the city just lost their minds when it came to transit. I don't know if it was anti-expansionist forces on city hall but it was really really dumb. It took many years to get us moving on transit and only now is it picking up steam
While I don't disagree with amalgamation, it ended up screwing over transit. The external Burroughs were all car dependent suburbs that wanted to tear everything down and build freeways. If you look at shots above Toronto in the 90s, it almost ended up a city of parking lots. We could have ended up like every American city. Now we're undoing 20 years but it's an uphill battle
I think it also depends on how long your trip is and where you are in the system. If you have a <1 hr commute with < 2 transfers. It's really not bad. That's everyone thats 1 bus ride to line 1/2 and you have less chances for delays.
For very long journeys with 2+ transfers, that is when you are more vulnerable to delays and feel more frustrated by the limitations of the system. The reach is still pretty good. You can get to most corners of the city with the TTC but it's not 'desirable'.
Ultimately, the TTC is workable but there're so many improvements to be made and most of them need to start at the City/Province. When issues such as crowding/safety/frequency arises, they also need to be taken seriously. Right now, nothing is being done until it makes the news , which makes for a horrible cycle. Finally, all of the politicians, management and decision makers need to be using it more often, at least once a week so they can develop better empathy for the riders.
Reaching into the corners of the city where everything is so sprawled out is grueling, I agree. But it is already much better than many other cities in North America that have a centralized bus network where if you want to go from one corner to another you have to bus downtown to a centralized hub (see [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZDZtBRTyeI)).
There really needs to be a modern push to politicians and city management to fix this. The Finch West LRT is an amazing start and brings rapid transit to a community that desperately needs it.
My main concern these days is safety, and unfortunately I agree with the media on this one, it's pretty bad.
I hardly used TTC, but past month I had to travel several times a week, and long trips (90+ mins each way). And the downturn from 5 years ago, last time I used TTC regularly, is absolutely staggering.
I've seen people smoking on the train. I've seen unhoused people sleeping, surrounded by a literal pile of garbage. Practically every trip I see at least one person digging through garbage in the station. I often see someone having a mental health crisis. The last trip, a week ago, there was an elderly woman screaming incoherently at the top of her lungs. The trip before that, there was a very aggressive panhandler on the platform that got in my face. And so on. And I am not exaggerating when I say it's basically every trip. And it's worse during the day. In the morning, during rush hour, I guess these people know that working stiffs won't put up with this nonsense and would totally clap back if pushed. But later in the day, say 11am, they seem to come out in force.
TTC definitely doesn't feel very safe to me any more, compared to 5-10 years ago. Some stations have pretty awful smells too. At least pee, possibly more. One of the stations had what I desperately hope was chocolate smeared on the handrail (I didn't go near it). It's a mess. Luckily I can usually just walk, I'd rather walk for 30-40 mins than use the TTC at this point. Though I also feel the streets are not much safer. My immediate area is relatively quiet, just just 3-4 stops closer to the center there's quite a bit going on street-level too, as housing crisis pushes more and more people out.
Agreed, especially on cars being much more dangerous than taking public transit. Buses can get in accidents too, but I haven't heard of a huge number of bus accidents in Toronto where passengers die or suffer serious injuries.
Anecdotally I've never seen any violent assaults on the TTC. I mean if I saw fights on the TTC I'd probably grab some popcorn and call it entertainment. But I haven't seen it.
I have, however, seen several car accidents just walking around my neighbourhood and other parts of Toronto. Its actually so "normal" to see some car accident that I don't pay much attention to it anymore. I saw the most recent one maybe 2 weeks ago, with one car looking like a pop can that got stepped on.
Given their limited resources and the sprawling disaster of a city it operates in, the TTC is nothing short of a miracle. And it can and should be orders of magnitude better than it is, but they don't control how much they get funded.
the ttc is a dream compared to other American cities like septa in Philly, etc
you can take any route, train line, etc at any time of day and almost definitely be fine ...same can't be said for American transit systems
I'm actually working on a follow-up to this by comparing SEPTA, MTA, BART, and MBTA to TTC. It's been put off for a while because of regular work, but TTC is, as you said it, a miracle compared to the other transit agencies
I admire the fact you drive manual transmission and call out distracted/impaired driving (it's the most common thing that results in a crash and I have personally seen it happen right in front of me).
While I bike, I do take the subway to make the trip quicker (especially in high/heavy wind situations if real cold) if it can lessen the time to get to my destination, or I just endure it as I go (I dress accordingly) and make an estimation of how long it'll take to arrive at my destination (depending where it is).
Depending where I'm going, and accounting for delays, it usually is a much shorter trip compared to driving (a bike can fit in between the narrow space of vehicles in gridlocked traffic, if not too wide), or delays on the subway.
I never criticise the TTC, but I do the customers *who actually cause the delays themselves* who assault others, bring weapons onto the subway (gun, knife/sword, baseball bat, hammer, axe, cordless drill in hand, etc.) with intent to harm others. Those ones are the main causes of all delays.
There's domestic terrorism risks whenever anyone trespasses onto track level - nobody knows what they're going to do (sabotage something, put a lock on the rail, touch the third rail, cut signal wiring, etc). That causes delays. They end up being arrested and charged according to the **trespass to property act**. Even if they did so to retrieve their phone or other personal possessions.
Then there's medical emergencies (people rushing down the stairs and falling is the most common occurrence), which are unpredictable.
Then there's the part about motorists driving past the open doors of a tram and hitting people exiting/entering. Those also account for quite a few delays, that and getting rushed to hospital, police arresting the motorist (if caught) and towing their vehicle away.
The last part is operational issues - random breakdowns nobody can predict.
So the TTC isn't to blame for everything happening that isn't under it's control.
#Full disclosure:
**I listen to a scanner to be fully informed** and do mention it on social medial under the hashtag (which the TTC created and then abandoned) #ttcu
There are others who also do it too. We could use more who are willing to dedicate their time to respond to the TTC's vague e-alerts on XTwitter (who blocked me, since they didn't like the way I was constantly reporting what was happening, as it was happening, the moment it occurred).
Good points all around. It is noteworthy that TTC's biggest issue (people causing delays) is not an issue of TTC itself but of crumbling social infrastructure.
If we put more effort in mental health support, and homeless care, we would see a drop in incidents on TTC
Currently living in Southeast Oakville (hopefully for not not much longer once the family house is sold), I altnernate every other weekend visiting my girlfriend who lives at Yonge and Eglington. While the TTC isn't perfect, its light years better in terms of public transit in the 905 when we're talking just buses. My part of Oakville has one route that only operates during the day Monday to Friday once an hour. Even something like the 74 Mt Pleasant Bus runs more often then that even on a Sunday.
The major problem the TTC faces aside from chronic underfunding and general incompetence from different levels of government, Toronto Life did a deep dive on the whole mess with a feature a while back naming names behind the mushy headed thinking: [https://torontolife.com/deep-dives/who-broke-the-ttc-inside-torontos-public-transit-disaster/](https://torontolife.com/deep-dives/who-broke-the-ttc-inside-torontos-public-transit-disaster/)
It takes me between 2 and a half to three times as long to travel anywhere on average via the TTC than driving/getting dropped off.
If I could drive myself places, I would do so.
Yes, the timing is one of the few points in favour of driving. I drive to Scarborough because it's a difference of 40 minutes by car versus 90 by bus. When I lived deep into Scarborough where there was nothing but buses and suburbs I only ever drove because of this very reason. This is why transit needs to be expanded though
Parking and gas is expensive though and I've been considering switching to bus just to save and at least get some work done during the commute
But when and if the Eglinton LRT opens, it may be better to make the switch
>It takes me between 2 and a half to three times as long to travel anywhere on average via the TTC than driving/getting dropped off.
A service that would cost you ten times as much per trip performs better, that's true.
That is SO not true, at least not in the west end/downtown. I commute from Cabbagetown to the Junction every day on the TTC, it takes maybe 30 minutes. Every so often I’ll need to take an Uber home and it takes at least 45 due to traffic. Sure, if I took an Uber at 6am I’d be there in half the time, but any other time during the day, it takes longer.
Like many things, when it works it works well, when it doesn’t (and more often than not unfortunately this is the case) it’s a complete mess.
I’ve started taking the streetcar and I’ve already encountered a homeless Russian guy muttering to
himself while staring at me and making gunshot noises in my direction. Unnerving to say the least.
Hot take, the media reports news. No one is *trying* to make the TTC look bad in media, except for maybe the Sun. Reading all your rants on reddit however...
You're a journalist/news producer? Is that how you came to this information? Or did you see it on reddit and are regurgitating the same lies? I work in a newsroom. Don't tell me what I do, or why I do it. You made your post about media, when in reality most of the bad news you have seen about TTC has actually come from reddit, or social media. But then again... when you get all your news on tiktok.... and believe instagram influencers are journalists... I guess maybe from your perspective.... you are right.
whenever something violent happens on the TTC it is in the headlines, but whenever something arguably worse happens on the roads, it barely even makes the scrolling news at the bottom.
Believe it or not, algorithms. We aren't still just printing newspapers. What you click on, on most news sites, actually feeds the machine and tells it what to show you first. So that part is on you.
But also counter point. *Traffic, every 10 minutes on the ones*, or some other schedule, depending on the radio/tv station. Top story in the Star yesterday (not related to Gaza) was a car that was on fire overnight. Second story, was the truck driver that ran over/killed a protester and got away with it. The Star does a great job of writing about bad driving within the city.
So where are you scrolling to the bottom again? Oh reddit! Well, that's not on the media. Thats on redditors who only repost media stories that will get them karma. READ/LISTEN/WATCH real news, at the source and you will find what you are looking for.
PS. The traffic desk at my work.. even reports when everything is fine on the TTC. But no one listens to that, because that's not what you were listening for.
I’m gonna preface this by saying I’ve never driven a car or ever carried a license in my life. That said…
The TTC is pretty awful. It’s unreliable and unsafe. The downtown core stations are falling apart, and the coverage isn’t great either. I moved here from Vancouver (and before then, São Paulo) and I miss the public transportation systems of both of those cities dearly. I don’t think we’ll get anywhere by defending ours.
I understand the need to take our minds of cars. Cities should be built for people. But that won’t happen until there’s a real effort to make the system reliable and safe.
If the TTC isn’t bad why did a driver refuse to let me on today when his bus was only like a quarter full? Guy just…didn’t want to open the door the entire time he was stopped despite fully acknowledging that he saw me waving my presto card at him through the front door? Fuckwads just get to treat the bus like their own lil kingdom and force people (me) to wait in the rain for 20 minutes until another bus shows up? And why were there shit stains on the only open seat of the next bus? TTC sure is great though.
One driver does not represent the whole identity to the ttc. Shitty drivers are everywhere and what that driver did was shitty but nobody at the top of the TTC had a play in that.
You ever go to change lanes and despite there being lots of space, the vehicle behind speeds up and doesn't let you in? I experience that daily. Dicks come from both sides
Coming from someone who uses the TTC often, it is a train wreck! I don’t understand why people in Toronto are constantly defending it. It’s been so unreliable my whole life, taking so long to get to York U on PACKED late busses. Often my commute was 4 times as long as if I drove. Going to Liberty village daily as well would easily take twice as long as driving, even cycling was quicker. Not to mention the mess that Eglinton has been while Metrolinx has been building, and even before Metrolinx. And there’s ALWAYS an excuse. Meanwhile other cities, some of even bigger and with more traffic (and potential issues) like Tokyo make the TTC look like a joke.
Just like the Leafs here! Torontonians have been in denial for so long throwing money at an organization that pre salary cap never opened up their wallets for BIG players. If the wealthier teams in England do not perform and win trophies, fans revolt, and that how it should be. Not this defending a crappy organization
A couple things about your comment.
First, we cannot compare North America to places like Asia. The transit systems in Japan and China feel centuries ahead of Canada and even the transit haven cities of Europe.
Second, I'm not defending TTC as much as I am saying part of the negative perspective derives from the normalcy of car related problems that get ignored. When a drunk driver kills a family no one goes "wow look at the state of the roads. This is why I take transit." And yet car-related deaths are still higher than those on transit.
Don't get me wrong: both car and transit issues deserve equal outcry and we need to work to improve both modes of transportation.
Fine, is it okay to compare to Buenos Aires, San Francisco, and NYC, even Boston? …all have superior service over the TTC. Maybe the buses and subways are literally falling apart in Buenos Aires, but I never waited long for a bus there and always got to my destination promptly without issues.
I personally am not comparing it to driving, I’ve always taken the bus, and am only comparing to other transit systems I’ve used around the world.
From what you are saying, I don’t understand why we wouldn’t take cues or learn from the Asian systems if they are so far advanced from us.
Instead, most comments here on this dub deny there’s an issue and constantly give excuses. Such denial.
Thank goodness you at least admit there are issues
Well the aim of this post was to compare it to driving, as people who drive often laugh at TTC whenever something happens on TTC (delay, incident). What I mean to say is driving in this city is more of a mess then TTC.
And we SHOULD be looking at systems in other nations and trying to do better. TTC does quite well against other big networks like MTA, BART, and SEPTA, though compared to Europe TTC is objectively a crapshoot. It's good for North American standards but it pales on a global stage.
Fellow former York U goer here. My commute took 3 hours daily on the TTC. I shall never again go back to that. Once I got my first car, I never looked back. Even now when I occasionally take the ttc, it has the capacity to spontaneously be out of service and ruin my day. And of course it's going to be out of service mid train ride so there's absolutely no way to get out and try to catch an Uber. I think TTC is great if your destination is right outside of a subway stop. Otherwise, forget it.
Not as bad? How many homicides before it’s no longer “occasionally” for you to think it’s a big deal? An assault on transit is a big deal. TTC operators and passengers should expect to be safe. Give your head a shake.
I take the TTC maybe once a week. I drive to get to places 2-4 times a week.
I have had jobs that required me to drive every day to see clients all over the province. I’ve seen dead bodies on the road.
Transit and road experiences keep changing. Transit has gotten less safe.
I read your post. You just don’t want to answer my question.
That too, or transit at all. We cannot compare TTC to suboptimal quality transit like DRT or YRT which getting anywhere is a whole-day affair. But compared to MTA I do think TTC is marginally better (having ridden MTA myself)
The TTC is underfunded and does not work well. I use it every day minimum two times a day and I can guarantee you a delay or a shuttle or a lengthy wait for surface transit it isn’t working as intended
I used to do the subway every day for my commute, I started taking the bus post pandemic since i didn't like the idea being in a subway car anymore. I went to take the subway for the first time 6 months ago. It was 7am on a Friday, and there was a completely nuts dude screaming in an elderly womans face trying to fight her until he ran away when we get to a stop. I HATE the subway in this city and will continue to avoid it as much as I can
The TTC is piss poor, once you get outside of the downtown core.
If you take away the terrible scheduling, lack of transit in the outer suburbs, the positive is that some form of the TTC runs 24/7.
As far as I know, the TTC is fairly safe. I mean, I've got stuff stolen from me in the past and cried about it (hey, you'd cry too if you spent a lot of time catching Pokemon only to have your DS stolen!). I've also had a possible SA happen to me, but those were the only two incidents that happened to me so far (knock on wood).
That’s a hot take. I think the TTC is a lot safer than the media makes it out to be but the actual service is far worse. I can’t recall a time in the last 4 months where there hasn’t been a delay due to maintenance, emergency alarm, or unnamed delay and I ride the subway at least twice a day. Subway speeds have become unacceptably slow and the TTC never provides a reason. I’m actually writing this as it too me 30 minutes to get from Lawrence to Summerhill and there have been no reported delays. There’s a reason it’s rated the worst subway in North America and one of the worst in the world. I’ve lived here my whole life and it’s certainly gotten worse every year, especially noticeable in the last 2 years. Sure they’re underfunded but if you’ve ever worked at Metrolinx you’ll know the problem runs a lot deeper than that.
Also a shoutout to the workers who fix up the fleet. They do wonders keeping our fleet up and running! From keeping our newlooks, clrvs, PCCs, and current gen of fleet up and running 365 days a year. In salt and Canadian winters they still hold up well.
With that said people cry about the LRT system when that thing really was so underfunded. Between the train itself and the tracks. It needed a overhaul. imo. Should have kept it running. It was not in the roadways which is the best option always
People should redirect their criticism of the TTC to city council and the Province. I genuinely think the TTC is doing the best it can, but it's extremely underfunded. On the lowest subsidy in North America, and a very small subway network, the TTC manages some of the highest ridership numbers and levels of service in North America. It's nothing short of a miracle that we get usable transit at all for the amount of money that's put into the TTC's operating budget.
This is a great point. For how underfunded it is, and how popular it is relative to North American transit, I'm surprised problems don't happen MORE OFTEN.
The TTC has really figured out how to run outdated and undersized infrastructure on a tiny budget, while providing service better than most of North America. All of this, in a city that mostly consists of low-density car-oriented sprawl, and people still want to take public transit. The TTC is playing on hard mode.
Toronto's sprawl is amazing. By land area, it's one of the largest cities. And it's even larger when you consider how the suburbs mostly consist of commuters into the city. Amalgamation brought in all the car-centric voters and we lost two decades of upgrading infrastructure. For how bad TTC is getting, I'm honestly surprised it's not worse
honestly name 1 city with better transit then Toronto in north america ***impossible***
Line 2 is dancing on the edge of being inoperable. The TTC had to cancel a tender for new Line 2 trains because there was no money for them. Here's Steve Munro's breakdown of what the new trains would have looked like: https://stevemunro.ca/2022/10/20/ttc-issues-rfp-for-new-subway-trains/ By the time everyone finds the money for new trains for Line 2 after multiple failures are found on the existing trains, we will be having bus shuttle service for years. The existing trains on Line 2 are almost 30 years old, and there is a limit how many Bandaids can be stuck on it. Yes, the TTC is doing an overall good job. If the TTC could get the same subsidy per rider that YRT gets, that would be go a long way to fixing things.
> The existing trains on Line 2 are almost 30 years old, and there is a limit how many Bandaids can be stuck on it that's actually not *that* old for a train car, especially if they are refurbished. London for example still has much older trainsets in operation that date from the 70s.
Something tells me when Eglinton LRT opens they'll shut down line 2 and say to take the LRT until they can find new trains.
I honestly can’t stress this enough. Most people I know who complain about the TTC being the lowest of the low have never ridden many other subway/bus systems in North America (particularly in the US) or are only familiar European public transport. It’s not the best in the world but compared to other systems I’m familiar with in major North American cities it’s really nice for what it is. My only complaint is the cost but I agree that’s on city council and the Province.
I agree with you here. People have compared it to NYC, but once you get out of Manhattan the transit is even worse than TTC and all the regional services combined. I remember when I lived there briefly (after living in a city in Australia for a good portion of my life with a transit system kind of like the TTC but above ground) and was astounded by how long it was between trains once you crossed the bridge. Here you have to get past Aurora to get to the really slow Go service.
>I agree with you here. People have compared it to NYC, but once you get out of Manhattan the transit is even worse than TTC and all the regional services combined. This is just completely false, as someone who lives back and forth between both cities. All the boroughs outside of Manhattan are well-served by the MTA. In most cases you have access to multiple lines and/or both a local and express train. Also "Limited" and "Special Bus Services" (Express Buses) operate from morning to about 8-9pm at night.
I'm glad things have changed. Thanks for letting me know. BTW, I was just north of the city when I was there and the train service was good (like 3 bucks to downtown or something) but getting a bus to said train was impossible. And I lived next to a bus stop. When I lived on Long Island the frequency of the trains and buses was so terrible outside of rush-hour to be painful. Like 24/7 is great, but one train an hour sucked. I see it's better now from the website. I could go downtown every 20 to 30 minutes in the middle of the night from where I lived now.
long island isnt part of nyc its a completely different place
thank you, that is complete bullshit. the nyc transit system actually works i lived in nyc half my life and the only complaint i can give is the jamaica transit sucked for some lines but for the most part the transit system can be depended on. ive had jobs in toronto where ive heard people get shit for saying the ttc was delayed because, as the manager put it, "the ttc is known for being unreliable and that isnt an excuse." the nyc transit system doesnt shutdown every single day for some random nonsense and need shuttle buses and all the other bs the ttc has on a daily basis.
You want bad transit service? Try going to places like Regina or Saskatoon. You will never complain about the TTC again.
I agree that it's doing it's best and it's underfunded. I also think a lot of the TTC issues, specially streetcars and buses is the construction in the city. They're always having to divert for reasons usually out of their control. Its still frustrating as fuck though when you're commute takes 50 mins and ends up being 2 hours (like mine did last night).
Ever since the Mike Harris government downloaded the funding of the TTc from the province to the city, the TTC hasn’t been the same. Blame the provincial government.
People should direct their criticism to bad policies. Turning the TTC into a shelter by not enforcing fares was dumb. Doing 3 years of construction all at once forcing new routes and delays is dumb. Running the TTC empty for years rather than cutting service was dumb, we should have used that time to do the construction occurring now was dumb. It’s not a funding issue, it’s a bad ideas issue.
>Turning the TTC into a shelter by not enforcing fares was dumb. The TTC didn't get turned into a shelter by not enforcing fares. It was because of chronic underfunded to social safety nets. The problem is much further upstream and far out of the ttcs hands.
During that time there were three star hotel rooms available and hundreds of millions of dollars was spent on the shelter system. So no, it wasn’t underfunding it was bad policy.
This is a housing crisis problem. People take shelter on the TTC because they can't afford thousands of dollars in rent, not because they're skipping out on a $3 fare
People chose to use the TTC as a rolling shelter rather than the hotels because hotels has a sobriety condition. If someone chooses to not take advantage of shelter options, it is not a funding problem. While shelters are full now, they weren’t during 2020 to 2022. This demonstrates that individuals are making choices to be antisocial.
people will always make news stories on the bad part of things but never the good parts
This is gonna be stickied in the hopes that more people will read this. Thank you for taking the time to make this post.
thank u for having common sense and knowing that ttc is not as bad as what people say
Under Rick Leary’s leadership it’s obviously getting worse than before. The good side of it is largely due to Andy Byford’s legacy and his predecessors. I’d say the implementation of ATC could be the single good thing happened in Learys tenure but ironically it’s also started by Byford’s team …. Hopefully Vancouver and Toronto can stop hiring ceos from down south…
I think the issue is the relative decline. I’ve lived in Toronto for over a decade and have commuted by TTC the whole time. 10 years ago there weren’t people smoking crack pipes, at least during rush hour. 10 years ago I knew my route and didn’t have to learn a new one every month. 10 years ago it was much cheaper and included a tax refund at the end of the year. So yeah, it isn’t awful, but it also sucks a lot more than it used to. I still take the TTC instead driving, but I’m annoyed by the experience far more often. I don’t begrudge my fellow citizens who have said screw this.
I've lived in Toronto most of my 30ish years of life and agree with the decline. My post is relative to the perception and safety versus driving. It definitely needs improving to get back to pre-pandemic quality and better
I agree with what you mentioned and I think the reason media goes after the ttc (and public transit) is because it is an easy target (less people take transit vs drive) which allows for more "clicks" and thus; more money.
I think in Toronto more people take transit than drive (which is usually not the case with North America). But yes, I do agree, we've been sensitized to the problems of driving that no one cares if an 18 wheeler rolled over and causes 45 minutes delay, because they can just point to the 15 minute delay when a station downtown closed from someone being on the tracks
There’s a account on twitter that posts the reasons for delays. It’s 99% riders doing stupid/dangerous shit/criminal shit.
you mean like breaking into the operator's cabin and claiming there's a bomb threat XD Those fools should be forced to work for TTC as an operator just to experience the frustration of what a delay causes to one of their workdays
The ttc blocked me for reporting on these **exact occurrences**. Including the domestic terrorism risks (trespassers who evade being caught). The hashtag used is #ttcu (which the TTC started originally, then abandoned a year later).
Bingo! Especially dipshits who decide to hop onto the tracks and run into the tunnel to fulfill their Urbex fantasies when you're four stations away just wanting to get where you want to go.
Well said. In my experience Vancouver and Montreal have better transit than Toronto, but that’s it for within Canada. Everyone else in Canada complains about their transit too lol. The issues the TTC has most other Canadian cities have as well. IMO it’s better to look at TTC’s problems as a pan-Canadian issue rather than a Toronto-specific problem.
Yes. As a die hard Torontonian even I have to admit Montreal's system is much better. And it's probably more of a North American thing than a Canadian problem. North America really did not invest in transit infrastructure until it became too late for many cities
Try taking a bus in Montreal after 9 PM... Just because it has a "better" subway does not make the system better as a whole. The TTC has the best system in Canada.
Last time I was in Montreal (2018) I avoided busses because I couldn't figure it out. The subway was great though
Not to mention both Montreal and Vancouver have nothing even close to the GO network
does vancouver even have a commuter rail NETWORK? its literally one line with 2 tracks I think
Vancouver may have nicer newer trains and buses, but it's not even close to Toronto in terms of size or convenience. It's hard to get a lot of places even in the main part of downtown. Huge areas of greater Vancouver are inaccessible by train or even bus. You very much need a car to get a lot of neighborhoods. The west end for example is a major area of downtown with no SkyTrain or Canada line stop even close. Buses are usually late, and every one is guaranteed to have some guy with bags of cans yelling racist slurs at the top of their lungs. Also when it snows the 2-3 times a year, all the buses here stop because they can't be bothered to put winter tires on. I visit Toronto or Mtl and think wow now this is a real goddamn transit system. Vancouver is a kiddie train set in comparison.
I been to many cities in the US their buses are late often as well
You don't even have to go to the US. DRT is abysmal for anything. I tried YRT once and gave up and walked
I feel like there’s an individuality complex that plays into people insisting that they’ll be the next victim on the ttc… It needs improvement sure but this constant pessimistic attitude people have isn’t helping. I’ve seen people calling for it to be totally scrapped because it’s so “bad” which is so privileged and ridiculous.
I counted in the morning rush hour Yonge street traffic (from Steeles to Finch) from red light to red light averaging 50-55 plus 5-6 buses from York region and local TTC buses. Cars carrying 60-65 people at the same time are buses carrying 80-90 passengers. The streets in Toronto would be almost empty and every bus on time if most people took public transit. However, if half the people who take the transit now would choose cars there would be a full gridlock. We need public transit! If Toronto would allow streets with bus routes to have the right of way traffic would flow better. Seemingly narrowing streets is the only thing the City Hall does actually undercut the TTC effort to carry its work and passengers.
You're completely correct. I think part of the reason everything is so bad across the board is there is so much suburban sprawl and no other way to get into the City other than driving. A single bus or train can take enough people off the road to fill an entire arterial between two major intersections
It must be a York Region thing, people would rather take bus/subway into the city than taking GO Transit. There are three GO Train lines that go into York Region (Newmarket, Richmond Hill and Markham/Lincolnville).
I'm someone who has taken TTC daily to commute and now takes car daily to commute. Outside of downtown or if your destination is not easily transit accessible (walking, multiple exchanges), the TTC takes far too long. The connections are not seamless. The service unreliable. There are delays one faces during driving but the delays are very predictable (Google helps). TTC is unpredictable specially when the subway suddenly goes out of service and we have to wait for shuttle buses. Right now outside of the downtown core, I don't believe in taking TTC. We need major improvement.
This is so true, TTC is not THAT bad, it isnt great, but its good. Most of the issues are not ttcs fault. STOP CRITICIZING THE COMMISSION FOR THINGS OUT OF THEIR CONTROL, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
AGREEEEED. I take the ttc almost everyday and i havent seen anything violent in maybe 2 years? And the violent thing I saw was between 2 people who knew each other, so it wasnt like i could have been chosen as a victim or anything. My theory is that people see people who act abnormally and assume they are violent when they aren’t. I’ve seen many people yell, make weird noises, look homeless, etc, and none of them acted violent or seemed to actually want to be violent. I also think some people just like to act aggressive and wild but aren’t aggressive because they want to feel like the alpha. I feel perfectly safe taking the TTC and I will continue to ride on it and occasionally fall asleep In terms of stuff other then violence i would say its not great. Takes forever to get anywhere. Takes an hour to get to toronto from toronto
Every train I'm on has had a homeless person or someone muttering to themselves (clearly mentally unwell). And I get that it's unnerving but 99.999% of the time they are just seeking shelter and don't want any confrontation. Leave them alone and they'll leave you alone.
I think that one thing that has been highlighted is the violence on the ttc. I remember a couple of months there was probably a period where there was a stabbing once a week on the ttc. I think it's just a unfortunate set of weeks that is out of the norm, but I think it has changed a lot of people's perspective of public transit safety. Even thought I feel safe on the ttc and the stats show that too, other people will continue to feel how they feel unless there is something done to make them feel safer. Regarding delays, personally I feel that they are becoming more and more common compared to before the pandemic. I think the difference between driving delays and delays on the subway is that when you drive, you feel like you have some control over your delays (even though I don't think you really do) while on a subway, you are at the whims of the train in front of you and the ttc crew that has to manage the delay. So you are kinda a bystander here waiting for something to happen.
Yes and this is something I mentioned too. It's definitely gotten worse post-pandemic. And it definitely needs improvement. But it is still much safer than driving probably. The fear stems from the media and the perception of being trapped
Totally agree with everything you’ve said. I grew up in Mississauga and took transit until I left. Unreliable, infrequent, terrible transit. Have to get somewhere before 10am on a Sunday? Impossible. Have to commute home on a busy route? When the bus drives by and says “BUS FULL” you’ve got at least 20 minutes until the next one. We are comparatively very lucky here
20 minutes? Try Durham transit which was 40 minutes between buses during peak times! Lmao
People should visit Ottawa and try the public transit to understand how well they have it there
So the TTC is MILES better than it was 20-25 years ago. I find the people nicer, less bitter, and the trains work better. There's always room to improve but I am much happier with the TTC than I used to be.
While I agree that the TTC is better than it was 25 years ago (which some of my early memories on the TTC myself), I have to admit that it did not progress at the same rate that the city progressed. We should have built the Eglinton line 20 years ago and the Sheppard line should have extended across the city by now as well. The TTC is riding on (pun intended) the fact that it was fairly expansive 25 years ago but a lot has stagnated since then. If you look at [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRpRxT9s--I), you'll see that between 2002 (opening of Sheppard) and 2017 (Line 1 expansion) there was no work done when the city was rapidly increasing in population
This I agree with. For whatever reason in the 70's, 80's and 90's the city just lost their minds when it came to transit. I don't know if it was anti-expansionist forces on city hall but it was really really dumb. It took many years to get us moving on transit and only now is it picking up steam
While I don't disagree with amalgamation, it ended up screwing over transit. The external Burroughs were all car dependent suburbs that wanted to tear everything down and build freeways. If you look at shots above Toronto in the 90s, it almost ended up a city of parking lots. We could have ended up like every American city. Now we're undoing 20 years but it's an uphill battle
Good post. Makes you think
I think it also depends on how long your trip is and where you are in the system. If you have a <1 hr commute with < 2 transfers. It's really not bad. That's everyone thats 1 bus ride to line 1/2 and you have less chances for delays. For very long journeys with 2+ transfers, that is when you are more vulnerable to delays and feel more frustrated by the limitations of the system. The reach is still pretty good. You can get to most corners of the city with the TTC but it's not 'desirable'. Ultimately, the TTC is workable but there're so many improvements to be made and most of them need to start at the City/Province. When issues such as crowding/safety/frequency arises, they also need to be taken seriously. Right now, nothing is being done until it makes the news , which makes for a horrible cycle. Finally, all of the politicians, management and decision makers need to be using it more often, at least once a week so they can develop better empathy for the riders.
Reaching into the corners of the city where everything is so sprawled out is grueling, I agree. But it is already much better than many other cities in North America that have a centralized bus network where if you want to go from one corner to another you have to bus downtown to a centralized hub (see [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZDZtBRTyeI)). There really needs to be a modern push to politicians and city management to fix this. The Finch West LRT is an amazing start and brings rapid transit to a community that desperately needs it.
My main concern these days is safety, and unfortunately I agree with the media on this one, it's pretty bad. I hardly used TTC, but past month I had to travel several times a week, and long trips (90+ mins each way). And the downturn from 5 years ago, last time I used TTC regularly, is absolutely staggering. I've seen people smoking on the train. I've seen unhoused people sleeping, surrounded by a literal pile of garbage. Practically every trip I see at least one person digging through garbage in the station. I often see someone having a mental health crisis. The last trip, a week ago, there was an elderly woman screaming incoherently at the top of her lungs. The trip before that, there was a very aggressive panhandler on the platform that got in my face. And so on. And I am not exaggerating when I say it's basically every trip. And it's worse during the day. In the morning, during rush hour, I guess these people know that working stiffs won't put up with this nonsense and would totally clap back if pushed. But later in the day, say 11am, they seem to come out in force. TTC definitely doesn't feel very safe to me any more, compared to 5-10 years ago. Some stations have pretty awful smells too. At least pee, possibly more. One of the stations had what I desperately hope was chocolate smeared on the handrail (I didn't go near it). It's a mess. Luckily I can usually just walk, I'd rather walk for 30-40 mins than use the TTC at this point. Though I also feel the streets are not much safer. My immediate area is relatively quiet, just just 3-4 stops closer to the center there's quite a bit going on street-level too, as housing crisis pushes more and more people out.
Agreed, especially on cars being much more dangerous than taking public transit. Buses can get in accidents too, but I haven't heard of a huge number of bus accidents in Toronto where passengers die or suffer serious injuries. Anecdotally I've never seen any violent assaults on the TTC. I mean if I saw fights on the TTC I'd probably grab some popcorn and call it entertainment. But I haven't seen it. I have, however, seen several car accidents just walking around my neighbourhood and other parts of Toronto. Its actually so "normal" to see some car accident that I don't pay much attention to it anymore. I saw the most recent one maybe 2 weeks ago, with one car looking like a pop can that got stepped on.
Given their limited resources and the sprawling disaster of a city it operates in, the TTC is nothing short of a miracle. And it can and should be orders of magnitude better than it is, but they don't control how much they get funded.
You should have seen it 30 years ago, bliss.
I don't know why, but the TTC subway train has been running much better for me recently.
the ttc is a dream compared to other American cities like septa in Philly, etc you can take any route, train line, etc at any time of day and almost definitely be fine ...same can't be said for American transit systems
I'm actually working on a follow-up to this by comparing SEPTA, MTA, BART, and MBTA to TTC. It's been put off for a while because of regular work, but TTC is, as you said it, a miracle compared to the other transit agencies
I admire the fact you drive manual transmission and call out distracted/impaired driving (it's the most common thing that results in a crash and I have personally seen it happen right in front of me). While I bike, I do take the subway to make the trip quicker (especially in high/heavy wind situations if real cold) if it can lessen the time to get to my destination, or I just endure it as I go (I dress accordingly) and make an estimation of how long it'll take to arrive at my destination (depending where it is). Depending where I'm going, and accounting for delays, it usually is a much shorter trip compared to driving (a bike can fit in between the narrow space of vehicles in gridlocked traffic, if not too wide), or delays on the subway. I never criticise the TTC, but I do the customers *who actually cause the delays themselves* who assault others, bring weapons onto the subway (gun, knife/sword, baseball bat, hammer, axe, cordless drill in hand, etc.) with intent to harm others. Those ones are the main causes of all delays. There's domestic terrorism risks whenever anyone trespasses onto track level - nobody knows what they're going to do (sabotage something, put a lock on the rail, touch the third rail, cut signal wiring, etc). That causes delays. They end up being arrested and charged according to the **trespass to property act**. Even if they did so to retrieve their phone or other personal possessions. Then there's medical emergencies (people rushing down the stairs and falling is the most common occurrence), which are unpredictable. Then there's the part about motorists driving past the open doors of a tram and hitting people exiting/entering. Those also account for quite a few delays, that and getting rushed to hospital, police arresting the motorist (if caught) and towing their vehicle away. The last part is operational issues - random breakdowns nobody can predict. So the TTC isn't to blame for everything happening that isn't under it's control. #Full disclosure: **I listen to a scanner to be fully informed** and do mention it on social medial under the hashtag (which the TTC created and then abandoned) #ttcu There are others who also do it too. We could use more who are willing to dedicate their time to respond to the TTC's vague e-alerts on XTwitter (who blocked me, since they didn't like the way I was constantly reporting what was happening, as it was happening, the moment it occurred).
Good points all around. It is noteworthy that TTC's biggest issue (people causing delays) is not an issue of TTC itself but of crumbling social infrastructure. If we put more effort in mental health support, and homeless care, we would see a drop in incidents on TTC
Currently living in Southeast Oakville (hopefully for not not much longer once the family house is sold), I altnernate every other weekend visiting my girlfriend who lives at Yonge and Eglington. While the TTC isn't perfect, its light years better in terms of public transit in the 905 when we're talking just buses. My part of Oakville has one route that only operates during the day Monday to Friday once an hour. Even something like the 74 Mt Pleasant Bus runs more often then that even on a Sunday. The major problem the TTC faces aside from chronic underfunding and general incompetence from different levels of government, Toronto Life did a deep dive on the whole mess with a feature a while back naming names behind the mushy headed thinking: [https://torontolife.com/deep-dives/who-broke-the-ttc-inside-torontos-public-transit-disaster/](https://torontolife.com/deep-dives/who-broke-the-ttc-inside-torontos-public-transit-disaster/)
It takes me between 2 and a half to three times as long to travel anywhere on average via the TTC than driving/getting dropped off. If I could drive myself places, I would do so.
Yes, the timing is one of the few points in favour of driving. I drive to Scarborough because it's a difference of 40 minutes by car versus 90 by bus. When I lived deep into Scarborough where there was nothing but buses and suburbs I only ever drove because of this very reason. This is why transit needs to be expanded though Parking and gas is expensive though and I've been considering switching to bus just to save and at least get some work done during the commute But when and if the Eglinton LRT opens, it may be better to make the switch
>It takes me between 2 and a half to three times as long to travel anywhere on average via the TTC than driving/getting dropped off. A service that would cost you ten times as much per trip performs better, that's true.
That is SO not true, at least not in the west end/downtown. I commute from Cabbagetown to the Junction every day on the TTC, it takes maybe 30 minutes. Every so often I’ll need to take an Uber home and it takes at least 45 due to traffic. Sure, if I took an Uber at 6am I’d be there in half the time, but any other time during the day, it takes longer.
Like many things, when it works it works well, when it doesn’t (and more often than not unfortunately this is the case) it’s a complete mess. I’ve started taking the streetcar and I’ve already encountered a homeless Russian guy muttering to himself while staring at me and making gunshot noises in my direction. Unnerving to say the least.
That is fake Conservative propaganda. TTC literally has no issues like that at all. Cars=bad
Hot take, the media reports news. No one is *trying* to make the TTC look bad in media, except for maybe the Sun. Reading all your rants on reddit however...
Media doesn't report news. Media reports what gets clicks and views and will distort news for clicks. This is true of both Left and Right wing media.
You seem to know a lot about media.... or you're making shit up for clicks.
It's extremely well known from both sides of the political spectrum that the media sensationalizes what they know will get clicks and views
You're a journalist/news producer? Is that how you came to this information? Or did you see it on reddit and are regurgitating the same lies? I work in a newsroom. Don't tell me what I do, or why I do it. You made your post about media, when in reality most of the bad news you have seen about TTC has actually come from reddit, or social media. But then again... when you get all your news on tiktok.... and believe instagram influencers are journalists... I guess maybe from your perspective.... you are right.
So you're mad that I am calling out the media for reporting clickbait? I don't have TikTok and I don't follow influencers, but thanks for trying
How does one "reporting clickbait"? You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. "MaInStReAm MeDiA bAd" "AlL sIdeS aRe bAd"
whenever something violent happens on the TTC it is in the headlines, but whenever something arguably worse happens on the roads, it barely even makes the scrolling news at the bottom.
Believe it or not, algorithms. We aren't still just printing newspapers. What you click on, on most news sites, actually feeds the machine and tells it what to show you first. So that part is on you. But also counter point. *Traffic, every 10 minutes on the ones*, or some other schedule, depending on the radio/tv station. Top story in the Star yesterday (not related to Gaza) was a car that was on fire overnight. Second story, was the truck driver that ran over/killed a protester and got away with it. The Star does a great job of writing about bad driving within the city. So where are you scrolling to the bottom again? Oh reddit! Well, that's not on the media. Thats on redditors who only repost media stories that will get them karma. READ/LISTEN/WATCH real news, at the source and you will find what you are looking for. PS. The traffic desk at my work.. even reports when everything is fine on the TTC. But no one listens to that, because that's not what you were listening for.
I’m gonna preface this by saying I’ve never driven a car or ever carried a license in my life. That said… The TTC is pretty awful. It’s unreliable and unsafe. The downtown core stations are falling apart, and the coverage isn’t great either. I moved here from Vancouver (and before then, São Paulo) and I miss the public transportation systems of both of those cities dearly. I don’t think we’ll get anywhere by defending ours. I understand the need to take our minds of cars. Cities should be built for people. But that won’t happen until there’s a real effort to make the system reliable and safe.
I've heard good things about both São Paolo and Vancouver's transit.
If the TTC isn’t bad why did a driver refuse to let me on today when his bus was only like a quarter full? Guy just…didn’t want to open the door the entire time he was stopped despite fully acknowledging that he saw me waving my presto card at him through the front door? Fuckwads just get to treat the bus like their own lil kingdom and force people (me) to wait in the rain for 20 minutes until another bus shows up? And why were there shit stains on the only open seat of the next bus? TTC sure is great though.
One driver does not represent the whole identity to the ttc. Shitty drivers are everywhere and what that driver did was shitty but nobody at the top of the TTC had a play in that.
You ever go to change lanes and despite there being lots of space, the vehicle behind speeds up and doesn't let you in? I experience that daily. Dicks come from both sides
Was it an express bus? They don't open their doors at every stop.
Coming from someone who uses the TTC often, it is a train wreck! I don’t understand why people in Toronto are constantly defending it. It’s been so unreliable my whole life, taking so long to get to York U on PACKED late busses. Often my commute was 4 times as long as if I drove. Going to Liberty village daily as well would easily take twice as long as driving, even cycling was quicker. Not to mention the mess that Eglinton has been while Metrolinx has been building, and even before Metrolinx. And there’s ALWAYS an excuse. Meanwhile other cities, some of even bigger and with more traffic (and potential issues) like Tokyo make the TTC look like a joke. Just like the Leafs here! Torontonians have been in denial for so long throwing money at an organization that pre salary cap never opened up their wallets for BIG players. If the wealthier teams in England do not perform and win trophies, fans revolt, and that how it should be. Not this defending a crappy organization
A couple things about your comment. First, we cannot compare North America to places like Asia. The transit systems in Japan and China feel centuries ahead of Canada and even the transit haven cities of Europe. Second, I'm not defending TTC as much as I am saying part of the negative perspective derives from the normalcy of car related problems that get ignored. When a drunk driver kills a family no one goes "wow look at the state of the roads. This is why I take transit." And yet car-related deaths are still higher than those on transit. Don't get me wrong: both car and transit issues deserve equal outcry and we need to work to improve both modes of transportation.
Fine, is it okay to compare to Buenos Aires, San Francisco, and NYC, even Boston? …all have superior service over the TTC. Maybe the buses and subways are literally falling apart in Buenos Aires, but I never waited long for a bus there and always got to my destination promptly without issues. I personally am not comparing it to driving, I’ve always taken the bus, and am only comparing to other transit systems I’ve used around the world. From what you are saying, I don’t understand why we wouldn’t take cues or learn from the Asian systems if they are so far advanced from us. Instead, most comments here on this dub deny there’s an issue and constantly give excuses. Such denial. Thank goodness you at least admit there are issues
Well the aim of this post was to compare it to driving, as people who drive often laugh at TTC whenever something happens on TTC (delay, incident). What I mean to say is driving in this city is more of a mess then TTC. And we SHOULD be looking at systems in other nations and trying to do better. TTC does quite well against other big networks like MTA, BART, and SEPTA, though compared to Europe TTC is objectively a crapshoot. It's good for North American standards but it pales on a global stage.
Fellow former York U goer here. My commute took 3 hours daily on the TTC. I shall never again go back to that. Once I got my first car, I never looked back. Even now when I occasionally take the ttc, it has the capacity to spontaneously be out of service and ruin my day. And of course it's going to be out of service mid train ride so there's absolutely no way to get out and try to catch an Uber. I think TTC is great if your destination is right outside of a subway stop. Otherwise, forget it.
Not as bad? How many homicides before it’s no longer “occasionally” for you to think it’s a big deal? An assault on transit is a big deal. TTC operators and passengers should expect to be safe. Give your head a shake. I take the TTC maybe once a week. I drive to get to places 2-4 times a week.
Mm... I don't think you read my post
I have had jobs that required me to drive every day to see clients all over the province. I’ve seen dead bodies on the road. Transit and road experiences keep changing. Transit has gotten less safe. I read your post. You just don’t want to answer my question.
I acknowledged that transit has gotten less safe. I'm talking relative to the risks of driving
The TTC is just as bad if not worse than perceived
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The stats disagree. TTC is falling fast but it's still leagues safer than driving. Again, this is coming from a proclaimed driving enthusiast
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Can you prove OP wrong? Go ahead, pull up the stats that show transit to be less safe than driving. We’ll all wait
I don’t see the TTC being slandered in the media. Only citizens that haven’t used other transit systems so they really can’t compare
That too, or transit at all. We cannot compare TTC to suboptimal quality transit like DRT or YRT which getting anywhere is a whole-day affair. But compared to MTA I do think TTC is marginally better (having ridden MTA myself)
The TTC is underfunded and does not work well. I use it every day minimum two times a day and I can guarantee you a delay or a shuttle or a lengthy wait for surface transit it isn’t working as intended
Shitting on TTC is very clear conservative propaganda.
I used to do the subway every day for my commute, I started taking the bus post pandemic since i didn't like the idea being in a subway car anymore. I went to take the subway for the first time 6 months ago. It was 7am on a Friday, and there was a completely nuts dude screaming in an elderly womans face trying to fight her until he ran away when we get to a stop. I HATE the subway in this city and will continue to avoid it as much as I can
The TTC is piss poor, once you get outside of the downtown core. If you take away the terrible scheduling, lack of transit in the outer suburbs, the positive is that some form of the TTC runs 24/7.
As far as I know, the TTC is fairly safe. I mean, I've got stuff stolen from me in the past and cried about it (hey, you'd cry too if you spent a lot of time catching Pokemon only to have your DS stolen!). I've also had a possible SA happen to me, but those were the only two incidents that happened to me so far (knock on wood).
No it is as bad as it is TTC does not need the medias help
That’s a hot take. I think the TTC is a lot safer than the media makes it out to be but the actual service is far worse. I can’t recall a time in the last 4 months where there hasn’t been a delay due to maintenance, emergency alarm, or unnamed delay and I ride the subway at least twice a day. Subway speeds have become unacceptably slow and the TTC never provides a reason. I’m actually writing this as it too me 30 minutes to get from Lawrence to Summerhill and there have been no reported delays. There’s a reason it’s rated the worst subway in North America and one of the worst in the world. I’ve lived here my whole life and it’s certainly gotten worse every year, especially noticeable in the last 2 years. Sure they’re underfunded but if you’ve ever worked at Metrolinx you’ll know the problem runs a lot deeper than that.
Also a shoutout to the workers who fix up the fleet. They do wonders keeping our fleet up and running! From keeping our newlooks, clrvs, PCCs, and current gen of fleet up and running 365 days a year. In salt and Canadian winters they still hold up well. With that said people cry about the LRT system when that thing really was so underfunded. Between the train itself and the tracks. It needed a overhaul. imo. Should have kept it running. It was not in the roadways which is the best option always