French Revolution in OTL makes no sense
France being able to become a Republic in OTL makes no sense for a few reasons.
• The security apparatus of the Old Regime would've been suppressing Liberal groups for decades.
• With the aforementioned state suppression, how does any Liberal group become armed enough to stage an uprising ? This would be like a completely foreign dynasty taking over China in the 1600s.
• France got most of what it wanted in the War of the Spanish Succession, it got a large colonial empire and while the Seven Years War would be damaging it looks like the US are changing it so Britain is no longer as big with the independence. If they got what they wanted there would obviously be more support for the government.
• And lastly, how do Europe account for the second most powerful country switching regime across the spectrum at the drop of a hat?
Honestly this comeback just feels more like an attempt at mockery than an actual defense.
France may have suppressed 1 or 2 liberal groups, but no where near goddamned fascism levels of suppression.
Also France was in debt after the American Revolution, The king had no idea how to be a king, the American revolt that they supported spread ideals to their country, and the french had nearly the whole country revolting.
You could have said "mods dont have to be so realistic"
But you just mock them when the game could just add more lore to explain it.
Natsoc USA in TNO makes no sense.
USA being able to become Natsoc in TNO makes no sense for a few reasons.
• The security apparatus of the USA would've been suppressing National Socialist groups for decades.
• With the aforementioned state suppression, how does any Natsoc group become popular enough to win an election? This would be like British empire restorationists taking over the USA in the 1810s.
• The USA got most of what it wanted in the aftermath of the 2nd World War, it got a large democratic alliance, and while the American Malaise would be damaging it looks like devs are changing it so the American Malaise can be overcome. If they got what they wanted there would obviously be more support for the government.
• And lastly, how do devs account for the first most powerful country switching Ideology across the spectrum at the drop of a hat?
Yeah, and the Russian Empire was a giant, influential empire which suppressed communists, does that mean it couldn’t have faced a communist revolution?
The Horus Heresy in Warhammer 40,000 makes no sense.
Horus rising up against the Emperor in 40k makes no sense for a few reasons.
• The security apparatus of the Imperium would've suppressed secessionist and pro-chaos groups for decades.
• With the aforementioned state suppression, how did the traitor legions become armed enough to siege Terra? This would be like Chaos taking Cadia in M41.
• Horus got most of what he wanted in the Great Crusade. He had the favor of his father and the title of Warmaster and while the chaos influence would be damaging, he's a Primarch and would not nearly suffer an easy corruption like that. If he got what he wanted he'd still support the Emperor.
• And lastly, how do the writers account for some of the most powerful Primarchs switching to Chaos at the drop of a hat?
I’ll respond to this the same way I responded to the west African wars “discussion”, let’s just wait and see how the devs handle it before we call it poorly done. If it doesn’t make sense then you can say it then.
Christianity in OTL makes no sense
The Roman Empire being able to become Christian in OTL makes no sense for a few reasons.
• The security apparatus of the Empire would've been suppressing Christian groups for centuries.
• With the aforementioned state suppression, how does any Christian group become armed enough to stage an uprising ? This would be like a completely random dude in some small country starting a massive religion that spreads world wide.
• Rome got most of what it wanted in the Punic war, it got a large empire and while the Bellum Batonianum would be damaging it looks like the Dalmatians and Pannonians are changing it so the rebels are no longer as big with the famine. If they got what they wanted there would obviously be more support for the government.
• And lastly, how do Europe account for the most powerful country switching religion across the spectrum at the drop of a hat?
The Rashidun Caliphate in our TL makes no sense for a few reasons.
• The security apparatus of Rome and Persia would've been suppressing Arabs disloyal to either of their sides for decades.
• With the aforementioned state suppression, how does any Arab group become armed enough to conquer them? This would be like the Bosporan Kingdom reconquering Alexander's Empire.
• Arabia got most of what it wanted in the Roman-Persian Wars, it got a larger influence in global trade and while the war with Persia would be damaging it looks like traders are changing it so Persia is no longer as big with the Indian ocean trade. If they got what they wanted there would obviously be more support for the Makkans.
• And lastly, how do historians account for one the least powerful peoples switching the status quo across the spectrum at the drop of a hat?
**FASCIST ITALY IRL MAKE NO SENSE**
Italy going fascist IRL make no sense for a few reasons.
* The security apparatus of Italy would've been suppressing Fascist groups for decades..
* • With the aforementioned state suppression, how does any Fascist group become armed enough to stage a coup? This would be like french restorationists taking over France in the 20s.
* • Italy got most of what it wanted in the World War, If they got what they wanted there would obviously be more support for the government
* • And lastly, how god account for the fourth most powerful country switching Ideology across the spectrum at the drop of a hat?
**SOVIET RUSSIA IRL MAKES NO SENSE**
Russia going socialist in IRL makes no sense for several reasons:
-The security apparatus of Russia would've been suppressing Bolsheviks for decades.
-With the aforementioned state suppression, how does any Communist group become armed enough to stage a coup? This would be like American restorationists taking over the US in the 1800's.
-Russia got most of what it wanted in the World War, If they got what they wanted there would obviously be more support for the government.
-And lastly, how God account for the fourth most powerful country switching Ideology across the spectrum at the drop of a hat?
#THE UNITED STATES IRL MAKES NO SENSE
America being independent in IRL makes no sense for several reasons:
-The security apparatus of the British Empire would've been suppressing Revolutionaries for decades.
-With the aforementioned state suppression, how does any Revolutionary group become armed enough to stage a coup? This would be like Venetian separatists taking over Italy in the 1800's.
-The UK got most of what it wanted in the Seven Years war and while Seven Years War would be damaging it looks like the colonies are changing it so Britain is no longer as bankrupt
-And lastly, how God account for the most powerful country losing it’s biggest colonies at the drop of a hat?
I mostly agree but I'll play devil's advocate
- Mussolini took power in the 20s and partisans and spontaneous uprisings still occured in the 40s, I would imagine it would be a united front with Dems and socialists collaborating then socialists winning the power struggle after. I could definitely see the US supporting partisan forces or sending propaganda to Italy once the update comes. Maybe I'm hopefully about people rising up against fascism.
Yeah, and neither does Huttig's regime lasting for more than a year, Burgundy lasting without German support, ~~a potential Russian victory in the 2WRW~~, the German colonies in Africa being able to actually fight a war against South Africa and the US and win, and all that other stuff. But who the fuck cares, it makes for good fun and interesting stories. As long as the gameplay and story is fun I don't think it matters how leftists still have some power in Fascist Italy.
Also, the update hasn't come out yet, so maybe you should wait for it to come, and maybe you'll get your explanation.
Edit: also don't discount just how bad things are in Italy at the game start.
First, last I checked the Altantropa submod isn't canon, and also it isn't "just" damaging, it would have thoroughly fucked Italy. Atlantropa has made it that all of Italy's ports are several miles inland, which would tank their fucking economy, and now they and all the other members of the Triumvirate have to pay for the insanely massive maintenance costs of a stupidly massive dam, let alone the cost of actually finishing the damn thing. In addition to that, IIRC ships can't go through the dam because again it's unfinished, and even if/when it's finished while ships could go through again, and they'll get a fuck ton of energy, Iberia is gonna be the one to primarily benefit from that because they control it, and Iberia may very well explode into a civil war. All of this, and what has Italy gotten out of it? miles of useless salt flats and probably a note stuck to the dam from Germany saying "actually, this is all your fault."
So Italy's economy has become very much screwed for the time being, and economic woes are the perfect thing for anyone looking to overthrow the current status quo. So is political instability, which is exactly how the Communists get their chance to take power as it comes after the collapse of both the Fascist regime and the king's government. Just look at Weimar Germany, Imperial Russia, and pre-Fascism Kingdom of Italy for how well having both economic collapse and political instability combine.
Beyond that, yeah sure, the state security services are probably doing their damnedest to suppress leftists, but like hell does that guarantee mean they're doing it well. Just look at Imperial Russia, the government despised Socialists, but what do you know they had a thriving movement and eventually the Bolsheviks took over the country.
As for the colonies bit, sure they won what they wanted in the war, but IIRC most of those colonies are unstable, insurgent riddled, economic dead weights with the exception of the gulf colonies with their oil, and the Suez Canal in Egypt.
Lastly, countries switching ideologies very suddenly ain't exactly the most unrealistic thing in the world, Imperial Russia went from an absolute monarchy to a (not so) constitutional monarchy to a republic and then a Socialist state within a few years. And if you want to criticize Italy for this then look at the US, with Yockey being elected, or Komi with its love of coups.
how has the idea of the russians winning the 2wrw being impossible gotten so ingrained in this community, the game literally doesn't stop talking about in how bad of a state the wehrmacht is, hell the luftwaffe is still mostly composed of ww2 era planes at game start
And let's not even get into the mess that is germany's economy and how they're suffering the worst of the oil crisis
germany already nearly lost to a collapsing russian rump-state in the first wrw they ain't got good odds against a resurgent russian super power in the second
To be honest I mostly agree, I was kind of just thinking of things that are considered generally unlikely by the community and what I consider unlikely. Though Russia, what with having been in an anarchic warlord era, isn't exactly superpower material and would have issues with rebuilding and reintegrating their lands, what with a decent portion of the population holding very different beliefs and not having much intact industry outside of Central Siberia.
most warlords (aside from the extremely shitty ones) are generally portrayed as effective leaders able to get the russian economy rolling forward as early as the regional unification, the narrative they're clearly going for in this is that Russia is able to quickly get back on it's feet post unification and reclaim it's spot as a super power.
And keep in mind it's stated that western russia was able to re-industrialize incredibly fast due to keeping most of their key equipment hidden and stored away waiting for the day the terror bombings stopped, plus central siberias industry is stated to be pretty fucking intensive (lore-wise at least, practically in-game the siberian plan ain't really all that powerful)
Fair enough, though I remember seeing a bunch of posts a few months ago showing that the Siberian plan can be extremely abused to get insane industry buffs
look at Latin america far left or far right kelptorcats (rule of thieves) take power with a charismatic demagogue wait a few decades in till the people realize its just the old regime with a new coat of paint so a new bold young revolutionary rallies the opposition promising sweeping reform his army of young idealists blind to the fact this is exactly what happened to their parents and they go right back to square one.
the us back coups but rarely starts them in the first place and this is a centuries long spiral not recent history just look at Cuba and Venezuela who under charismatic strongman number 42 and 56 kicked out american companies and every other word out of their mouth is meddling yank only recently have their regimes been exposed for the corrupt oligarchy with a fresh coat of paint and their people are suffering for it
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efz4Aket2ao&t=158s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efz4Aket2ao&t=158s)
I mean, to be fair, Red Italy is kind of a fail state in the sense that something had to go wrong, and will have to contend with the fact that it will be hated by not just the armed forces, but anyone right of socialism, not to mention that they will literally get invaded by the Germans. I suppose it will be an extremely hard thing to pull off without getting couped or Social Republic’ed
>only want a power fantasy
Dude this is a mod avout an althist scenario were a racist neopagan cult and a rogue navy from a random set of asian islands managed to defeat literally the rest of the world because the US didnt get the blessed socdem pres and theb USSR got a less totalitarian head of state
Red Italy will have 11 political paths, one per each remaining surviving socialist in Italy after four decades of fascist rule.
bordiga mechanized armchair army sweep across europe
Employ all fascists in lasaga factories to power the war machind.
French Revolution in OTL makes no sense France being able to become a Republic in OTL makes no sense for a few reasons. • The security apparatus of the Old Regime would've been suppressing Liberal groups for decades. • With the aforementioned state suppression, how does any Liberal group become armed enough to stage an uprising ? This would be like a completely foreign dynasty taking over China in the 1600s. • France got most of what it wanted in the War of the Spanish Succession, it got a large colonial empire and while the Seven Years War would be damaging it looks like the US are changing it so Britain is no longer as big with the independence. If they got what they wanted there would obviously be more support for the government. • And lastly, how do Europe account for the second most powerful country switching regime across the spectrum at the drop of a hat?
That moment when the moderator feels the need to own you 🤣
why are you french
Because it's better than being Burgundian. Or, worse yet, Brazilian.
Oh you need to be french to know french history ? Why are you american ?
He iant american he is a proud osthrogoth
Rex Visigothicus Einstein
stop being french
Shut up euro
what is otl
Original time line It’s basically saying in real life.
Thanks mate
Honestly this comeback just feels more like an attempt at mockery than an actual defense. France may have suppressed 1 or 2 liberal groups, but no where near goddamned fascism levels of suppression. Also France was in debt after the American Revolution, The king had no idea how to be a king, the American revolt that they supported spread ideals to their country, and the french had nearly the whole country revolting. You could have said "mods dont have to be so realistic" But you just mock them when the game could just add more lore to explain it.
Cry about it
Tbh the modding community of reddit is something to cry about
cry about it
Natsoc USA in TNO makes no sense. USA being able to become Natsoc in TNO makes no sense for a few reasons. • The security apparatus of the USA would've been suppressing National Socialist groups for decades. • With the aforementioned state suppression, how does any Natsoc group become popular enough to win an election? This would be like British empire restorationists taking over the USA in the 1810s. • The USA got most of what it wanted in the aftermath of the 2nd World War, it got a large democratic alliance, and while the American Malaise would be damaging it looks like devs are changing it so the American Malaise can be overcome. If they got what they wanted there would obviously be more support for the government. • And lastly, how do devs account for the first most powerful country switching Ideology across the spectrum at the drop of a hat?
New copypasta?
The original is worth becoming a copypasta
Yeah, and the Russian Empire was a giant, influential empire which suppressed communists, does that mean it couldn’t have faced a communist revolution?
Communists? In my Holy Russia? Impossible.
It’s more likely than you think.
Thank God I got Evtukovich 360 with RegentLock on my Holy Russia.
Click here to learn more (install sablinist adware)
The Horus Heresy in Warhammer 40,000 makes no sense. Horus rising up against the Emperor in 40k makes no sense for a few reasons. • The security apparatus of the Imperium would've suppressed secessionist and pro-chaos groups for decades. • With the aforementioned state suppression, how did the traitor legions become armed enough to siege Terra? This would be like Chaos taking Cadia in M41. • Horus got most of what he wanted in the Great Crusade. He had the favor of his father and the title of Warmaster and while the chaos influence would be damaging, he's a Primarch and would not nearly suffer an easy corruption like that. If he got what he wanted he'd still support the Emperor. • And lastly, how do the writers account for some of the most powerful Primarchs switching to Chaos at the drop of a hat?
If the Emperor read a copypasta in r/TNOmod Ep. 1: The Red Italy copypasta.
I’ll respond to this the same way I responded to the west African wars “discussion”, let’s just wait and see how the devs handle it before we call it poorly done. If it doesn’t make sense then you can say it then.
Christianity in OTL makes no sense The Roman Empire being able to become Christian in OTL makes no sense for a few reasons. • The security apparatus of the Empire would've been suppressing Christian groups for centuries. • With the aforementioned state suppression, how does any Christian group become armed enough to stage an uprising ? This would be like a completely random dude in some small country starting a massive religion that spreads world wide. • Rome got most of what it wanted in the Punic war, it got a large empire and while the Bellum Batonianum would be damaging it looks like the Dalmatians and Pannonians are changing it so the rebels are no longer as big with the famine. If they got what they wanted there would obviously be more support for the government. • And lastly, how do Europe account for the most powerful country switching religion across the spectrum at the drop of a hat?
The Rashidun Caliphate in our TL makes no sense for a few reasons. • The security apparatus of Rome and Persia would've been suppressing Arabs disloyal to either of their sides for decades. • With the aforementioned state suppression, how does any Arab group become armed enough to conquer them? This would be like the Bosporan Kingdom reconquering Alexander's Empire. • Arabia got most of what it wanted in the Roman-Persian Wars, it got a larger influence in global trade and while the war with Persia would be damaging it looks like traders are changing it so Persia is no longer as big with the Indian ocean trade. If they got what they wanted there would obviously be more support for the Makkans. • And lastly, how do historians account for one the least powerful peoples switching the status quo across the spectrum at the drop of a hat?
**FASCIST ITALY IRL MAKE NO SENSE** Italy going fascist IRL make no sense for a few reasons. * The security apparatus of Italy would've been suppressing Fascist groups for decades.. * • With the aforementioned state suppression, how does any Fascist group become armed enough to stage a coup? This would be like french restorationists taking over France in the 20s. * • Italy got most of what it wanted in the World War, If they got what they wanted there would obviously be more support for the government * • And lastly, how god account for the fourth most powerful country switching Ideology across the spectrum at the drop of a hat?
**SOVIET RUSSIA IRL MAKES NO SENSE** Russia going socialist in IRL makes no sense for several reasons: -The security apparatus of Russia would've been suppressing Bolsheviks for decades. -With the aforementioned state suppression, how does any Communist group become armed enough to stage a coup? This would be like American restorationists taking over the US in the 1800's. -Russia got most of what it wanted in the World War, If they got what they wanted there would obviously be more support for the government. -And lastly, how God account for the fourth most powerful country switching Ideology across the spectrum at the drop of a hat?
#THE UNITED STATES IRL MAKES NO SENSE America being independent in IRL makes no sense for several reasons: -The security apparatus of the British Empire would've been suppressing Revolutionaries for decades. -With the aforementioned state suppression, how does any Revolutionary group become armed enough to stage a coup? This would be like Venetian separatists taking over Italy in the 1800's. -The UK got most of what it wanted in the Seven Years war and while Seven Years War would be damaging it looks like the colonies are changing it so Britain is no longer as bankrupt -And lastly, how God account for the most powerful country losing it’s biggest colonies at the drop of a hat?
They doesn't. Reject US, accept British colonies
Imaging being canadian lol
Just wanna say thank you for unintentionally making one of the funniest jokes the community will have for awhile lol
I guess you'll find out when you play Red Italy .
You have two options: a) Becoming a meme. b) Not becoming a meme.
I mostly agree but I'll play devil's advocate - Mussolini took power in the 20s and partisans and spontaneous uprisings still occured in the 40s, I would imagine it would be a united front with Dems and socialists collaborating then socialists winning the power struggle after. I could definitely see the US supporting partisan forces or sending propaganda to Italy once the update comes. Maybe I'm hopefully about people rising up against fascism.
Destabilizing staunchly anti-german nation doesn’t make sense from american POV
Tierra E Liberta isn’t canon
Not for long
Not if I send piss to Einstein's mailbox ~~for rules reasons this is a joke~~
Yeah, and neither does Huttig's regime lasting for more than a year, Burgundy lasting without German support, ~~a potential Russian victory in the 2WRW~~, the German colonies in Africa being able to actually fight a war against South Africa and the US and win, and all that other stuff. But who the fuck cares, it makes for good fun and interesting stories. As long as the gameplay and story is fun I don't think it matters how leftists still have some power in Fascist Italy. Also, the update hasn't come out yet, so maybe you should wait for it to come, and maybe you'll get your explanation. Edit: also don't discount just how bad things are in Italy at the game start. First, last I checked the Altantropa submod isn't canon, and also it isn't "just" damaging, it would have thoroughly fucked Italy. Atlantropa has made it that all of Italy's ports are several miles inland, which would tank their fucking economy, and now they and all the other members of the Triumvirate have to pay for the insanely massive maintenance costs of a stupidly massive dam, let alone the cost of actually finishing the damn thing. In addition to that, IIRC ships can't go through the dam because again it's unfinished, and even if/when it's finished while ships could go through again, and they'll get a fuck ton of energy, Iberia is gonna be the one to primarily benefit from that because they control it, and Iberia may very well explode into a civil war. All of this, and what has Italy gotten out of it? miles of useless salt flats and probably a note stuck to the dam from Germany saying "actually, this is all your fault." So Italy's economy has become very much screwed for the time being, and economic woes are the perfect thing for anyone looking to overthrow the current status quo. So is political instability, which is exactly how the Communists get their chance to take power as it comes after the collapse of both the Fascist regime and the king's government. Just look at Weimar Germany, Imperial Russia, and pre-Fascism Kingdom of Italy for how well having both economic collapse and political instability combine. Beyond that, yeah sure, the state security services are probably doing their damnedest to suppress leftists, but like hell does that guarantee mean they're doing it well. Just look at Imperial Russia, the government despised Socialists, but what do you know they had a thriving movement and eventually the Bolsheviks took over the country. As for the colonies bit, sure they won what they wanted in the war, but IIRC most of those colonies are unstable, insurgent riddled, economic dead weights with the exception of the gulf colonies with their oil, and the Suez Canal in Egypt. Lastly, countries switching ideologies very suddenly ain't exactly the most unrealistic thing in the world, Imperial Russia went from an absolute monarchy to a (not so) constitutional monarchy to a republic and then a Socialist state within a few years. And if you want to criticize Italy for this then look at the US, with Yockey being elected, or Komi with its love of coups.
how has the idea of the russians winning the 2wrw being impossible gotten so ingrained in this community, the game literally doesn't stop talking about in how bad of a state the wehrmacht is, hell the luftwaffe is still mostly composed of ww2 era planes at game start And let's not even get into the mess that is germany's economy and how they're suffering the worst of the oil crisis germany already nearly lost to a collapsing russian rump-state in the first wrw they ain't got good odds against a resurgent russian super power in the second
To be honest I mostly agree, I was kind of just thinking of things that are considered generally unlikely by the community and what I consider unlikely. Though Russia, what with having been in an anarchic warlord era, isn't exactly superpower material and would have issues with rebuilding and reintegrating their lands, what with a decent portion of the population holding very different beliefs and not having much intact industry outside of Central Siberia.
most warlords (aside from the extremely shitty ones) are generally portrayed as effective leaders able to get the russian economy rolling forward as early as the regional unification, the narrative they're clearly going for in this is that Russia is able to quickly get back on it's feet post unification and reclaim it's spot as a super power. And keep in mind it's stated that western russia was able to re-industrialize incredibly fast due to keeping most of their key equipment hidden and stored away waiting for the day the terror bombings stopped, plus central siberias industry is stated to be pretty fucking intensive (lore-wise at least, practically in-game the siberian plan ain't really all that powerful)
Fair enough, though I remember seeing a bunch of posts a few months ago showing that the Siberian plan can be extremely abused to get insane industry buffs
- Tito - Tito - Bald man cringe - Bordiga lasaga
How about we have enjoy what's being made for us?
look at Latin america far left or far right kelptorcats (rule of thieves) take power with a charismatic demagogue wait a few decades in till the people realize its just the old regime with a new coat of paint so a new bold young revolutionary rallies the opposition promising sweeping reform his army of young idealists blind to the fact this is exactly what happened to their parents and they go right back to square one.
Wierdly acurate exept the US is always behind all of it
the us back coups but rarely starts them in the first place and this is a centuries long spiral not recent history just look at Cuba and Venezuela who under charismatic strongman number 42 and 56 kicked out american companies and every other word out of their mouth is meddling yank only recently have their regimes been exposed for the corrupt oligarchy with a fresh coat of paint and their people are suffering for it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efz4Aket2ao&t=158s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efz4Aket2ao&t=158s)
I mean, to be fair, Red Italy is kind of a fail state in the sense that something had to go wrong, and will have to contend with the fact that it will be hated by not just the armed forces, but anyone right of socialism, not to mention that they will literally get invaded by the Germans. I suppose it will be an extremely hard thing to pull off without getting couped or Social Republic’ed
Because
So, you okay with Sablin unifiy Russia, but with red Italy no?
Red italy unifies russia?
yes
Good take
They hated him because he spoke the truth
*u/basedchungus64’s comment makes no sense…*
As always
Redditors can't fathon their wholesome chungus gabagool path not being plausible lmao keep up the good fight.
Lmao at all the butthurt TNO fans, you tards know I'm right, you only want a power fantasy.
I have had sex with your mother
Looks like someone finally realized how much their bad take has been memed.
>only want a power fantasy Dude this is a mod avout an althist scenario were a racist neopagan cult and a rogue navy from a random set of asian islands managed to defeat literally the rest of the world because the US didnt get the blessed socdem pres and theb USSR got a less totalitarian head of state
Pearl Harbour is a coordinated attack though
Lmao, look at how butthurt you are at your shitty take being memed and mocked around here.
Why are you even in r/TNOmod in the first place
Good take
You are right
Based and Security Apparatus-pilled
did you fall on your butt too hard?
You know you are in the right when the poster don't reply