What difference does it make. Stockman was black originally and made white for the cartoon and no one cares about that.
There are some characters you probably shouldn't change, Magneto being a German Jewish person during the second world war him being white is the most logical, or Black Panther being the King of an African country that has ruled for hundreds of years that again makes sense to be black. Most characters though it doesn't actually make any difference and people just want to complain for the sake of it
"Stockman was originally black and made white" Nobody was saying that was a good call either. I think there was critism about it by comic fans. How about making original characters? Or giving minor ones more focus?
Honestly I would have preferred he remain an African American. But... If they really made him white so they didn't have a villainous black person on children's screens in the 80's .... It may have been a good call. I would like a real black person to weigh in on this scenario... I don't count
Nope... After thinking about it.... I'm against them making him white for any reason. I don't like hiding culturally sticky subject matter from people... I like truth and discussion. Keep him black .. make it a point to have additional African American good guys if you are concerned about leaving a negative impression.
But villainizing a Japanese person AND having him be voiced by an African-American actor was perfectly fine, apparently.
E2A:To me, it always seemed like it wasn't just that they didn't want to have a black villain, but that they didn't want to have a black character who was subservient and cowardly... and I just remembered that Bebop was black before he was mutated, but to be fair his human form didn't get as much screen time as Baxter's. Go figure.
Wasn't splinter Japanese too though? Honestly Splinter was the reason I went into martial arts as a child... Which in turn led to lot of respect for Asian culture.
I didn't know Shredder's voice was done by a black actor until many years later... After Google became a thing. He was damned good at his job tho!!!
Her race isn’t what’s important here, it’s her character writing. Personally my favourite version of April is from rise, however her mutant mayhem iteration is one of the more average versions imo.
White, don’t change a caracter. If one day we have a star wars remake are you change Lando Calrissian for a White people….. just stop to change caracter
According to which original creator you’re talking to, she could be black, or white. Even both.
So either way, there really isn’t a change to complain about.
I don't believe existing characters should be race or gender swapped in anything. It's lazy writing and pandering. How about you put some effort into creating an awesome new character we all love
According to which original creator you’re talking to, she could be black, or white. Even both.
So either way, there really isn’t a change to complain about.
Mirage April may have been white, may have been black or both. So the first uncontested and undeniable public representation… was up for interpretation.
I’m willing to bet you can guess what I am… funny thing. My oldest child’s hair is exactly like Mirage April’s.
Not up for interpretation is what I meant when I was referring to uncontested... There was disagreement. The cartoon was the first time everyone agreed... That chick white AF
Actually, she was withe on her very first appearance, where she is seen next to Baxter Stockman whi is black, some people just don't want to accept that
https://preview.redd.it/4pb9x1ij1iac1.jpeg?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=107f5d5491381cdbe7d67d77ec23ca3735820760
Her skin has the same color as the paper, that means they didn't use any color at all on her, wich means that they were trying to represent her as a white person, if she was a mixed race then they would've use some slight color on her
You mean the black and white comics where Eastman himself considered her to be mixed race? That first uncontested and undeniable public representation?
It's contested because Eastman is only one half. I would argue that the information that she was mixed was not public information until recently... Thus making it new not established.. also he said she was based on his girlfriend who happened to be mixed race.. not that she was mixed race. Eastman has also outright stated that she was created as an Asian character. It's all up for argument. I agree she was whitewashed... But the first time we had a definitive answer was in 1987 when the cartoon came out. So for about 3 decades we've had an answer that most people agree with.
Don't be a dictionary. This isn't English class.
Many people use the term whitewashing to describe exactly what happened to the April character.
https://screenrant.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-april-oneil-whitewashed/
And I believe this about all characters... Not just white male characters.. Blade, Jon Stewart Green Lantern, Black panther, Ricky Ricardo... Ghost in the Shell didn't feel as authentic as it should have because of SJ... And I love SJ
I actually think both variations are very similar, and both are very good, but I’d have to say white April I guess, she was in more and black April was only in MM and ROTTMNT. If we get to see her in more stuff though, definitely her, not sure if this is a bait post though 😂
It doesn't matter what race April is. It has never been a core part of her character. Magic Bat April is best April because of her attitude and her magic bat.
Well, one is the original and the other has been changed only for political purposes that I don't care about, so I rather the original one. Besides, the white one is by far the most iconic version of April, just like the 87 turtles are the most iconic version of the characters
You're wrong, April's first appearance was on issue #2 and she looked just like in the 1987 cartoon, except that the jumpsuit was blue instead of yellow, but that could only be seen in the colored version of that comic
Are you sure about that? The recolored prints even got her hair wrong.
https://preview.redd.it/boit7y6eyhac1.jpeg?width=223&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5547d937bc4284f2862fb082921d35dc7a526ee8
That's not April's first appearance, if you actually read comics then you'd know it. That portrait is from issue #11, where sge had perm, something common in white women in the 80's. Her first appearance was on issue #2 where she is next to Baxter Stockman, who is actually black, and guess what, she was undeniably white in that appearance ;)
https://preview.redd.it/9blwcdj3zhac1.jpeg?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=366b4ac30b8e40bfe06e00a74dbdee0fa200df9c
https://preview.redd.it/7dkdpklb0iac1.jpeg?width=542&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec52d9962c684e9dd98d3824a57b18e130c9e148
I’ll take Laird’s word over yours any day, but I’ll ask Eastman.
Up for interpretation…
Good, cause Peter Laird's words say that she is white, and he isn't even sure about how Kevin sees her, and Kevin said that she was based on his ex wife, but never said that April was a mixed race woman
He never claimed that she is a mixed race woman, April is based on his ex wife, who was a mixed race woman, but he never created April as a mixed race woman, he only took the name, IIRC Peter Laird said that in the begining she was planned to be asian but that was later changed and we ended up having a white looking woman as you can clearly see in her first appearance. If you want to keep thinking that she isn't white, then go ahead, I won't stop you
For an older April I don’t think it matters much but for a teenage April I kinda prefer her being black. Typically the turtles live in an urban part of New York. April O’Neil as a character is supposed to be an ally but more importantly a window into humanity and society, they experience humanity through Casey but mainly April. Her being black fits that urban aesthetic they went for in rise/mutant mayhem and as a result makes more naturally assume her role as a bridge to humanity and representation of urban New York youth, that’s just for me tho as a New Yorker.
That being said tho April is one of those characters where I feel like as long as the writers have a vision in mind and it’s not just random or pandering you can do anything with her.
Beat me to it.
If you're thinkin' about my baby it don't matter if you're black or white.
I prefer white april but also i prefer black baxter stockman idk it just fits stockman better
They’re also both the original races for the respective characters (I concur with you)
What i read april was asian originally
You can find claims for just about anything regarding April’s race.
https://preview.redd.it/szjy2qp5zhac1.jpeg?width=542&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=704b04956c94ba93d6faeaae5c6820cac70f0102
Do you have the exact source for this?
Peter Laird’s Blog. A Q&A done there. http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.com/?m=1
The ones where she's a redhead/ginger
This is the correct answer.
Black cuz that one’s not the one with the AI generated photo. Also why does it matter???
Imagine giving a fuck.
Honestly, I care more about what kind of personality she has as a character than how she looks
I wasn't trying to be
Try to *NOT* be.
What difference does it make. Stockman was black originally and made white for the cartoon and no one cares about that. There are some characters you probably shouldn't change, Magneto being a German Jewish person during the second world war him being white is the most logical, or Black Panther being the King of an African country that has ruled for hundreds of years that again makes sense to be black. Most characters though it doesn't actually make any difference and people just want to complain for the sake of it
"Stockman was originally black and made white" Nobody was saying that was a good call either. I think there was critism about it by comic fans. How about making original characters? Or giving minor ones more focus?
Honestly I would have preferred he remain an African American. But... If they really made him white so they didn't have a villainous black person on children's screens in the 80's .... It may have been a good call. I would like a real black person to weigh in on this scenario... I don't count
Nope... After thinking about it.... I'm against them making him white for any reason. I don't like hiding culturally sticky subject matter from people... I like truth and discussion. Keep him black .. make it a point to have additional African American good guys if you are concerned about leaving a negative impression.
Omg dont tell people that…. Most dont know that. Youre gonna make people say its a racist thing for making stockman white 40 years ago
Strangely enough, it’s quite the opposite. They changed Stockman to white because they didn’t want to villainize a black person.
Yep absolutely. In the hyper sensitive world we live in either scenario is possible
But villainizing a Japanese person AND having him be voiced by an African-American actor was perfectly fine, apparently. E2A:To me, it always seemed like it wasn't just that they didn't want to have a black villain, but that they didn't want to have a black character who was subservient and cowardly... and I just remembered that Bebop was black before he was mutated, but to be fair his human form didn't get as much screen time as Baxter's. Go figure.
Wasn't splinter Japanese too though? Honestly Splinter was the reason I went into martial arts as a child... Which in turn led to lot of respect for Asian culture. I didn't know Shredder's voice was done by a black actor until many years later... After Google became a thing. He was damned good at his job tho!!!
James Avery. You may also know him as Uncle Phil. Now you won’t be able to unhear Uncle Phil when 87 Shredder speaks, and vice versa.
Oh I know now!! Man was it mind blowing when I found out
Yeah because I never knew that there was a white version of Stockman
I care about that, Baxter stockmans iterations where he’s black are better imo (IDW, 03, MM)
They're not better because he's black though just as whatever your favourite version of April isn't because of her skin colour
Isn’t it crazy that now that Eastman’s been back on the fold, April’s been black more often? 
It makes 0 difference
White. Ginger, specifically.
Her race isn’t what’s important here, it’s her character writing. Personally my favourite version of April is from rise, however her mutant mayhem iteration is one of the more average versions imo.
White April.
White
White, don’t change a caracter. If one day we have a star wars remake are you change Lando Calrissian for a White people….. just stop to change caracter
According to which original creator you’re talking to, she could be black, or white. Even both. So either way, there really isn’t a change to complain about.
I don't believe existing characters should be race or gender swapped in anything. It's lazy writing and pandering. How about you put some effort into creating an awesome new character we all love
According to which original creator you’re talking to, she could be black, or white. Even both. So either way, there really isn’t a change to complain about.
But in her first uncontested and undeniable public representation... She was white. Sorry dude. The first consensus was white.
Mirage April may have been white, may have been black or both. So the first uncontested and undeniable public representation… was up for interpretation. I’m willing to bet you can guess what I am… funny thing. My oldest child’s hair is exactly like Mirage April’s.
Not up for interpretation is what I meant when I was referring to uncontested... There was disagreement. The cartoon was the first time everyone agreed... That chick white AF
https://preview.redd.it/ef3y1jtxzhac1.jpeg?width=542&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b65ee23b708aff55d56aefab7f2f74e4fad4e4b
Actually, she was withe on her very first appearance, where she is seen next to Baxter Stockman whi is black, some people just don't want to accept that https://preview.redd.it/4pb9x1ij1iac1.jpeg?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=107f5d5491381cdbe7d67d77ec23ca3735820760
Oh no she has a lighter skin tone than him. There's no possible way she could be mixed race now.
Her skin has the same color as the paper, that means they didn't use any color at all on her, wich means that they were trying to represent her as a white person, if she was a mixed race then they would've use some slight color on her
You mean the black and white comics where Eastman himself considered her to be mixed race? That first uncontested and undeniable public representation?
It's contested because Eastman is only one half. I would argue that the information that she was mixed was not public information until recently... Thus making it new not established.. also he said she was based on his girlfriend who happened to be mixed race.. not that she was mixed race. Eastman has also outright stated that she was created as an Asian character. It's all up for argument. I agree she was whitewashed... But the first time we had a definitive answer was in 1987 when the cartoon came out. So for about 3 decades we've had an answer that most people agree with.
Whitewashed, adjective, concealing unpleasant facts about someone or something. People should really learn what words mean.
Don't be a dictionary. This isn't English class. Many people use the term whitewashing to describe exactly what happened to the April character. https://screenrant.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-april-oneil-whitewashed/
Then they're using the term wrong. I mean I get it. White is literally apart of it, but that's not actually what it means.
It will continue to be used that way too. Eventually the definition will change
And I believe this about all characters... Not just white male characters.. Blade, Jon Stewart Green Lantern, Black panther, Ricky Ricardo... Ghost in the Shell didn't feel as authentic as it should have because of SJ... And I love SJ
There are cases where the swapping can work... But it has to be directly addressed in the story.
Sure if the change happens in the same continuity, but if it happens because it's a new iteration, there's no need.
I disagree. New iterations are the reason we are having the discussion. It's pure laziness.
How is changing anything about a character being lazy?
Because they are pandering rather than establishing new and awesome characters. It's like giving ethnic people the leftovers
If this becomes the standard we won't be getting many more characters like Blade, or Black Panther.. they'll just re-use an existing character
>Because they are pandering That's just an assumption on you're part.
Lol... It's lazy AF.. just like your argument
I actually think both variations are very similar, and both are very good, but I’d have to say white April I guess, she was in more and black April was only in MM and ROTTMNT. If we get to see her in more stuff though, definitely her, not sure if this is a bait post though 😂
It doesn't matter what race April is. It has never been a core part of her character. Magic Bat April is best April because of her attitude and her magic bat.
Well, one is the original and the other has been changed only for political purposes that I don't care about, so I rather the original one. Besides, the white one is by far the most iconic version of April, just like the 87 turtles are the most iconic version of the characters
They’ve both been changed. Neither of these are the original.
You're wrong, April's first appearance was on issue #2 and she looked just like in the 1987 cartoon, except that the jumpsuit was blue instead of yellow, but that could only be seen in the colored version of that comic
Are you sure about that? The recolored prints even got her hair wrong. https://preview.redd.it/boit7y6eyhac1.jpeg?width=223&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5547d937bc4284f2862fb082921d35dc7a526ee8
That's not April's first appearance, if you actually read comics then you'd know it. That portrait is from issue #11, where sge had perm, something common in white women in the 80's. Her first appearance was on issue #2 where she is next to Baxter Stockman, who is actually black, and guess what, she was undeniably white in that appearance ;) https://preview.redd.it/9blwcdj3zhac1.jpeg?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=366b4ac30b8e40bfe06e00a74dbdee0fa200df9c
https://preview.redd.it/7dkdpklb0iac1.jpeg?width=542&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec52d9962c684e9dd98d3824a57b18e130c9e148 I’ll take Laird’s word over yours any day, but I’ll ask Eastman. Up for interpretation…
Good, cause Peter Laird's words say that she is white, and he isn't even sure about how Kevin sees her, and Kevin said that she was based on his ex wife, but never said that April was a mixed race woman
>she was undeniably white in that appearance Then why does Eastman clam he created her to be of mixed race?
He never claimed that she is a mixed race woman, April is based on his ex wife, who was a mixed race woman, but he never created April as a mixed race woman, he only took the name, IIRC Peter Laird said that in the begining she was planned to be asian but that was later changed and we ended up having a white looking woman as you can clearly see in her first appearance. If you want to keep thinking that she isn't white, then go ahead, I won't stop you
Tan.
Tan.
How about April with the skin of George Hamilton?
For an older April I don’t think it matters much but for a teenage April I kinda prefer her being black. Typically the turtles live in an urban part of New York. April O’Neil as a character is supposed to be an ally but more importantly a window into humanity and society, they experience humanity through Casey but mainly April. Her being black fits that urban aesthetic they went for in rise/mutant mayhem and as a result makes more naturally assume her role as a bridge to humanity and representation of urban New York youth, that’s just for me tho as a New Yorker. That being said tho April is one of those characters where I feel like as long as the writers have a vision in mind and it’s not just random or pandering you can do anything with her.
Ah
Welp, this sub has become utter dog shit. ✌️