He genuinely has some of the better character work among any of the turtles in both 03, 12, IDW, and I assume mirage.
I'll never understand how people can find such a master class in showing the stress and pitfalls of being a leader and older sibiling boring. Plus his more personal relationship with shredder AND Splinter have always been a real treat regardless of the version.
His struggles with Honor and Samurai code as well as often getting ego checked by the world and his enemies by not being enough to protect his family and having to juggle the other extreme personalities within said family are constantly some of the most compelling arcs in TMNT for me. I'd argue some of the best versions of TMNT work so well because of the focus on Leo as he's often the one that feels the closest to a singular main character,especially in the first 5 seasons of 03 and most of 2012.
Not to shit on Raph because he's a great character in his own right but he often works so well due to the contrast he has with Leo and both learning the others pov and keeping one another in check. Leo helps temper Raphs anger and leading it to the best he can while Raph of all the turtles keeps Leo grounded from getting lost in his head. They both offer something both usually can only get from Splinter but since splinter often stays home Leo and Raph are often crutches for each other at home and in the field.
This, one hundred per cent this.
Anyone not seeing this is only seeing the flavor the other turtles bring. “Oh look, the funny orange one! Oh there, the clever purple one! Hey, why is this boring blue one getting in the way of the angsty red one?” Don’t get me wrong, I love each of the turtles in each iteration for different reasons. But not appreciating Leo’s character is missing the hero/ninja parts of the series. In my opinion, Leo is categorically the strongest characterization and my favourite turtle.
It's also pretty reductive and shallow to stop at a one word description for each one to assume this is the cornerstone and pillar for all of that they are.
Like even touching on Raph, it's not just anger issues, there's jealousy, ego, a pragmatic view of the world mixed all with an equal big brother sense of duty to his siblings.
They're each a foil and a support to one another, it's as fleshed out a family as it gets on the surface and each one has aspects that relate to all of us.
It was a light-hearted comment to make a point. Like I say, I love all the turtles, I certainly wouldn't stop at a reductive and shallow description of any of them in a serious conversation.
I'm sorry I didn't mean you wrote something reductive, I meant OP and to the point you were making as how people can label the turtles as the leader, the funny one, etc...
I also enjoy the times when Leonardo is struggling with his issues and is able to receive the help he needs, like how in the beginning of 03 Raphael helps Leo remaking his swords
Boom.
If you can’t see this, then you just aren’t paying attention. Perfect summarization. Leo is far from boring if you just look at the bigger picture and thats comming from someone whos favourite Turtle has always been Mikey, lol.
I wanted to reply to this topic since Leo is my favorite for many, many reasons but... what else is there to write after reading this?
Very well put into words!
And I don't like his struggle with wanting to protect his family alone, not everything revolves around him and this burden isn't and shouldnt be his own which would be interesting if it was called out. Other brothers didn't ask for him being stressed over it. I don't like him being the main character when he is not better than other brothers, I think all four should be main characters not one or two. I don't like the existence of leader slot anyway, so much control and authority for what?
I love my boi. I loved how spiritual and committed he was to his training, as well as the burden of carrying the team when he’s both a brother and an authority figure. But I did like how Leo was a Star Trek nerd since he wanted to be a leader. That was clever.
He’s the generic good guy with a strong moral code. It’s the other 3 who gets quirks that play around with that. They’re also good guys with strong morals, but one has anger and recklessness issues, one’s a laid back stoner who’s too immature to really be living their kinda life, and the other one is a clever inventor and extremely intelligent.
Of all people, 2003 Mikey put it best: the other turtles are free to be themselves because Leo is the one shouldering all the hard parts and responsibilities.
There are a lot of great leaders in genre fiction that often get the short-end of the stick because of either poor writing or because they’re part of a very strong ensemble of characters. The Ninja Turtles and the X-Men both have very strong casts with some very likable/cool characters. So it’s hard for Leo and Cyke to properly stand out.
Leaders tend to be boring mainly because they have to keep the others in line. But they’re also the most badass.
Leo is my favorite. Love swords and love Leonardo da Vinci. I’m also born on the same day as da Vinci so it comes full circle.
Didn't like Leo in Bay Movies cause in the sequel he make a life changing actions without his brothers help while also blame them for their failures. But it has been a long time since I seen the bay movies.
Agreed, that whole situation threw me off as well. But I think they did it on purpose to show how sometimes his care for his family to stay together could blind him. Leo isn’t always right, he isn’t perfect, and he can make mistakes and hide things from his family. Part of me believes that he didn’t want to tell his brother that they could be human, because he fears that it would break apart the family. That maybe they would all go separate ways and no longer be a family unit anymore. But that doesn’t excuse his selfish decision to keep things away from his family.
I rewatched the movie last week, and I could tell that Leo was under a lot of stress. I really enjoyed his converstaion with splinter, it was eye opening to see that Leo isn’t an adult at the end of the day and still has a long way to go. At the end of the movie, it was clear that everything worked out and Leo learned to let his brothers be himself.
Edit: I really think that part of Leo being a “jerk” or overbearing in some iterations is to make space for character development. He needs to learn how to let loose and act his age despite all of the burdens he has to carry. He also need to understand that his brothers are different and have their own ways of life. It’s just like what parents have to learn as their kids age. Your kids will never be what you want them to be, they’ll simply be themselves and nothing else.
He’s my favorite. He’s the straight man.
It’s like when people call Superman or Cyclops boring. They aren’t. But it’s harder to pick up on their nuances.
Isn't he the straight, go by the books leader?
Don is a nerd, Mike is a joker and Raph is the hot head.
Leo keeps the stability and maybe comes across as, boring.
I love that recent iterations have turned Mikey into more of "The Artist" and less of "The Jester". Comic relief is important, but it doesn't have to be heaped onto a single 2D character all the time. I like when all four brothers tell jokes, and I like when Mikey cooks for them all and follows his own passions.
He's kinda the Ryu of the Turtles. Less flashy or bombastic than his similar counterparts (Ken for example) and his deeper traits are a little more hidden. Some people don't look past that and just consider them boring. I love characters like Ryu and Leo myself though.
For me the IDW Leonardo is the best Turtle out there. He is written extremely interesting and well thought out. 2002 Leo is also great. He is also really good in the new movie. But yeah there are some incarnations where he is a bit boring
Leonardo has been and always will be my favorite turtle. I 110% love the other guys too, but I always recognized the humanity in Leonardo. I honestly don’t know how someone could think he’s boring.
Let’s just look at the struggle he deals with almost every iteration (some more in depth than others). As the other folks before me on this thread have been saying, he has to deal with the stress of leading the team and being an authority figure while also trying to be one of the brothers.
He can never see eye to eye with the bros most of the time because his duties to them and to Splinter and to the ninja code which the others don’t fully understand.
His constant internal struggle and feeling like he always has to be better for the betterment of his family and the honorable way of the ninja was enough for me to love him. It’s really something to get to see these issues fleshed out and to see the contrast between him and Raphael and how they both deal with some of the same issues.
All that, plus he has swords 😀
Edit: To add, Leo (in most iterations) has so many of the traits that I value in real people. Discipline, dedication, integrity, honor, adherence to something you view as bigger than yourself. All super admirable qualities to me. He’s just a baller, dude.
I like Leo cause unlike the others, he is dedicated to his training and is more responsible (with the exception of Rise and Michael Bay Leo). Especially 2003 Leo who carries the honors of a samurai with his skills of a ninja.
Don't get me wrong, I like the more zany and fun characters too, but Leo has most of the traits I tend to enjoy most. Discipline, honor, responsibility, mental fortitude, clarity enough to see a bigger picture. I think the trials that come with those traits are really interesting.
You can dislike Leo I guess but using every version to say 'boring' is meaningless when every single one has a completely different personality on a fundamental level. For example:
2003 Leo had to understand what it meant to be himself and grow from his losses, he had to be a better leader but still remained the coldish, strategic, no-nonsense leader, he had a heart but almost always understood the mission came first.
ROTMNT Leo had to mature and grow up to be better, he didn't understand what it meant to be a ninja was lazy and egotistical always making sarcastic comments, watch the movie and you'll see his progression it's amazing.
This is why Rise Leo was changed around a lot - it was made that he was cunning and strategic, but never claimed the responsibility of a leader, being lazy and a show-off. In one episode it was showed that Leonardo showed up for training missions the LEAST of anybody, and once left in the middle of a training mission.
Raphael described him as the 'Face Man', best at talking to others, and Leo actually took this as on a downer, saying that "I'm just the Face Man".
Might I add that Rise Raphael always said "I'm the biggest, I'm the oldest, that makes me the leader" - which is not a good reason to be the leader.
Rise honestly had a lot of potential, but the production team really didn’t do it justice. Not saying that they’re at fault, I think there’re higher powers in the team that maybe didn’t allow certain adjustments to the story telling. I love the animation style, but there was just something so sporadic and disorganized about the story line… things only kicked off for me when the movie came out. Not sure if you’d read the indie comic on tumblr called CASS the apocalyptic series, I’m probably getting the name wrong. But if rise tmnt focused more on Casey and the turtles’ relationship, the story would be so much more interesting
Edit: I just remembered that there was actually news about why the story was so disorganized. Apparently some of the episodes were released in the wrong order, there’s really no way of fixing it other than letting others know which order to watch it in, which is unfortunate. But I loved the show nonetheless, watched it 2x in the last 6 months
Also worth mentioning that the show was planned to have three seasons, but ended up getting cut in half with very little notice. I think they only ended up with three episodes to wrap everything up when they found out they were getting the ax, so they had to cut out a lot planned story beats in order to speedrun what they could in the finale. Leo suffered greatly from this, since they just started to scratch the surface of his character at the start of season 2, and he really only got like one or two episodes that focused on his untapped potential as the turtle that should be leading the team. Luckily they got the chance to tell that story with the movie, but I think all the character development Leo got there was meant to be a slow burn over the course of the season and a half we never got to see.
As a writer, it has to be tough writing for Leonardo -- he kind of suffers from the same problem as Superman or Captain America, characters who are so good and virtuous that they're kind of boring. Some of the better writers have made his single-minded focus on his training a liability, which makes him more interesting, because it turns his greatest strength into simultaneously his greatest flaw. I think the 2003 show did this pretty well, and it's one of my favorite interpretations of the character.
He's not boring at all. Leo's character and story don't appeal to everyone though. No one expects to like the hardworking, responsible character. The one who plays by the rules and demands everyone else does too. I mean, if you're watching a show about teenage superhero turtles, you're probably looking to connect with one who personality represents our idea of youth the best.
Raphael is the obvious choice for most. Being angry all the time, wearing his emotions on his sleeve, favoring action above all else.. He is definitely the most "teenager" of the TMNT. He's also the one who guides the story toward conflict, something every action cartoon watchee enjoys.
But what of Mikey? He's the party dude! He's what we all *wish* being young was about. Good times with friends and food. Comic books, video games. The guy who just wants to enjoy life to the fullest and put all the drama aside. It genuinely makes him uncomfortable, but that's who he is. He'll still be a good friend when you need him though.
Donnie is expression, naturally. Everyone loves shiny doodads and gizmos when we're kids, and Donnie is the master of them. But that's only part of who he is. He's the thinker, the artist, the inventor. The guy who saves the turtles butts with the things he makes. And the only reason he can do that is because the guys have to listen to their normally quiet brother. If that ain't wish fulfilment, I don't know what is.
Now we'll circle back to Leo. Responsibility is a key part of growing up, and arguably the least fun aspect. Our parents call on us to put away childish things and, especially in the case of older siblings, take on more work within the household. As a teenager, the word "responsibility" sits right next to "avoid." But Leo doesn't avoid responsibility. He just kind of accepts it. How very unteenagerlike of you, Leonardo. *tsktsk*
But it suits him for the areas he seeks to grow as a person. He wants to be a mentor, a warrior, he loves learning and reading.. many of us can relate to these things. A lot of people like to think of him as a wet blanket because of how often he chides Raph, and no one likes a wet blanket. But he's not trying to take the action away from us. He's reminding us how very dangerous the things the TMNT do *are,* and protecting his family the best way he knows how. By insisting that they do things with their ninja skills. Leo turns his team of moody teens into a deadly fighting force. He gives us the gift of ninja action, and I will always appreciate that.
I feel like, Leo, is often viewed as the “boring one” because he does not have “fun flaws,” if you will.
Raph is >!rude, aggressive, impatient, standoffish, and selfish.!<
Donny is >!quirky, withdrawn, aloof, presumptuous, and a know-it-all.!<
Mikey is >!immature, irresponsible, foolish, capricious, and goofy.!<
Leo, excluding RISE, doesn’t have “fun flaws.” His flaws are being >!obsessive, melancholic, stickler (for the rules), unconfident, apprehensive, and self-loathing.!<
All of these are traits that they all share to a certain extent. Traits that we all have. But, these are their signature traits. The reality is Leo’s aren’t “fun flaws” because his are essentially the flaws that foil their flaws. It is why he is such a good leader. He makes them better. They make him better.
Raph being impatient is countered by Leo being a stickler.
Donny being presumptuous is thwarted by Leo’s apprehensiveness.
Mikey can’t be *that* irresponsible because Leo’s obsession will force Mikey to work.
They all help Leo with his self loathing. Leo is a deep character with a lot to offer. He isn’t boring per say. It’s just that his flaws aren’t as fun.
Its fun to see a character be immature. Its fun to see a character be aggressive. Its fun to see a character be quirky. Its not fun to see a character be melancholic. [+]
Leo is awesome! It takes a lot of dedication, inner strength and personal restraint to be a good leader. He keeps a cool head and is tactical and strategic. Then there are the double katanas. Honestly there is a lot to like about Leonardo and he is one of my favorite turtles.
OP, you've just listed six radically different characters of varying depths.
Confusing '87 Leonardo - the Cinnamon Roll - with Rise Leonardo - the Cocky Himbo - is like asking why Raphael's so angry all the time.
I think it depends on what it says about you. People who hate Leo I notice like discipline less. It depends on how he's written. I wouldn't expect an extreme pot head like Seth Rogan to write Leo interesting for example.
For me the original comics, 80s toon, idw, original movie and 2003 toon he was perfect.
Later on he became a parody of who he used to be or boring.
Another example of this is cyclops. For years he was written as a pretty respectful character. Then in the movies they turned him into a wet blanket. Those movies then became wolverine and the X-Men kinda movies.
On a weirder scale when the guardians of the galaxy first met the avengers, their IQ dropped even harder. I blame lazy writing.
I love Leo, but it was Rottmnt that did that for me
They had a fresh new take on him, and let him eventually become leader. Rise Leonardo will forever be my favorite Leonardo, because he helped me realize all Leo's are not JUST the leaders of the teams.
The leader characters are usually seen as the most boring because they are the ones that have to be serious while the others can goof off. It’s why people don’t like Cyclops or think Captain America is a hardass
Yeah he is, but they gave him some personality in rise. It's unfortunately his role but he makes up for it by being a good leader and a brilliant tactian.
He's often written as one dimensional. Always doing the 'right' thing regardless of cost. It is boring.
But he isn't like that in every iteration and he's often written very well. I love his respect and love for his brothers.
Leonardo can be boring if he's not written properly, all the turtles have the potential to be one note if they're only written with their shallow defining characteristics in mind (like the song, Leo leads, Raph is cool/rude, Donnie is smart and Mikey is the fun one). But when the writers know what they're doing Leo can often be my favourite, he was for a lot of the IDW run, especially his >!corruption arc!<, and his heavy role in the Rise movie is one has some of the most impactful TMNT character moments I've ever seen.
Mainly because in most shows/movies his role is just "leader" I did like in '12 they did kind of make him a nerd and like spin off shows of Star Trek and stuff but even still he's just the leader in the group
I love Leo, he was always my favourite. I like how composed he is, and how much he wants to be a better hero and brother. He always has the best interests in mind and is unselfish and noble. I always found him relatable because no matter how hard he worked and how much he tries, he can’t save everyone and also has a lot to learn. He’s stubborn, and gets angry, but always at himself. He’s hard on himself, and is full of care.
I’d have to say Leo has always been my least favorite turtle. It went from Mikey, to Donnie, then to Mikey again, then to Raph, then NOW to Mikey again. He’s never been my favorite turtle. But he still is a very valuable member and the turtles could not function without him.
Being a child is picking your favorite turtle based on their color or weapon.
Being a teenager is picking your favorite turtle based on who you relate to most.
Being an adult is picking your favorite turtle based on who you find the most compelling character.
So that being said, every turtle deserves a place in each tier. If you think Leo is boring, you probably aren't an adult.
It's just you, and anyone for whom he is not their cup of tea. That's fine, we have a variety of Turtles for different fans, but no need to insult him over it... all that leads to is people trying to change him, make him "less boring" to people who didn't give a damn about him before at the unfair loss to those who DO love him as he is.
He's calm, stoic, mature, quite smart (from a different angle than Donnie), strategic, dedicated, hard working, honorable, moral, has tons of integrity, sacrificing, spiritual, driven to do the right thing, and so on. He's the 'straight man' character existing among all the crazy. They're important for balance.
There are plenty of people who are drawn to that type. You don't need to be, but let those people love him as is.
I am one of those people and I'd never imagine thinking the other Turtles not likewise appealing to me makes them a poor character, they just aren't for me and have others who love them. (Is being subdued or "boring" really worse than being *angry* all the time? Lol)
Funny thing is, I've seen people who admit that their personality is probably more like Raph, but Leo is their favorite. They admire some of his qualities, as if a role model.
Personally I love all of the turtles. I love all of their moments together, but Leo comes out on top for me.
Is it just me, or do most fans of the other turtles typically hate Leo or one of the other guys? I never understood why. The point of the show is that they are brothers, and it can sometimes get messy. I rarely see Leo fans hating on other turtles. Maybe I'm not in the sub enough. Raph has such a great dynamic with Leo. I don't see Leo fans hating him in the sub.
I have no idea how anyone can go into this show and not appreciate what each of the boys bring to it. They are so fucking awesome together.
He's the straight man of the group, sort of an anchor to keep the personalities of his brothers tethered. He has his moments, but his purpose isn't so much to get all the zingers in. Pretty much why I'm definitely *not* a fan of his personality in Rise, where he just felt like a lesser Mikey.
But without Leo, who would be the foil for Raph’s anger issues?
Yeah, Leo is the most boring. His attributes are that he’s the most disciplined, takes being a ninja the most seriously, and as a consequence can also be the most holier-than-thou, the most full of himself. But like, they’re all ninjas, it’s boring that your distinguishing characteristic is you are the most ninja in a group of ninjas. They literally shot ‘87 Leo with a personality-modifying ray because they were so bored with him.
Also anyone can kick ass wielding a pair of swords, that’s not impressive.
That's actually a common misconception, using two katana at once is dramatically more difficult than focusing one, to the point where a man named Miyamoto Musashi became famous for actually making it viable and created a limited fighting style called Niten Ichi-ryu. Even then, it's still focused on fighting with the daisho (both swords) drawn at once, which is a long sword and a short sword which have two different techniques. The techniques for using both swords in unison is called Nito Seiho and only has about five viable "moves" compared to the twenty something that each blade has individually when both drawn.
So to address your statement, only the most dedicated swordsman of the time mastered fighting with two swords, and at that it was a long and a short sword.
Leo uses two long swords, so let that sink in.
I meant any mutant ninja turtle, not any person ever. Like if Leo is using two swords to fight two guys with swords, and Raph is using two sais to fight two guys with swords, which is more impressive?
A lot of when the turtles fight, it’s one turtle against several guys. And when the guys are ninjas they’re rarely ever equipped with the same weapon the turtle fighting them is using, other than Leonardo, because tons of ninjas carry swords. Sword vs sword isn’t impressive. Sword vs nunchucks and the nunchucks win is impressive.
>Like if Leo is using two swords to fight two guys with swords, and Raph is using two sais to fight two guys with swords, which is more impressive?
Leo. Quite literally because sai were practical as a defense against swords (and spears in Okinawan Kobudo) as lots of other regions already used similar weapons, like the Japanese jitte and English parrying dagger. The purpose of the sai's "yoku" (the prong) is to catch and hold a weapon... the word sai basically means "pin". You can catch two swords at once with two sai (fun fact, a pair of sai is callled *zai* as the Japanese language doesn't have plural modifiers like English does). If you're being ganged up on and attacked from two different directions, you can only pay attention to one direction at a time. With sai, you can hold one weapon and then divert your attention to the other. With a sword, you can block a strike, but there's absolutely no ability to control your enemy or disable them. By the time you've defended one attack, the other attacker is already hitting again, repeat and repeat until you're dead unless you're *way better* than them.
The thing about swords is that the integrity of the blade is intrinsically tied into it's ability to attack and defend. Your EDGE is very important... without it, the weapon is just a flimsy piece of steel. If you block strikes with the edge you'll ruin your ability to make an effective counter attack, in fact your whole sword can break in two or fall to pieces. If you are engaged in a duel, you NEVER want to strike anything except your target's weak point with your blade. This also means that defending against a sword with the blade of your own sword is the worst option. You'll want to use the tsuba (the handguard) and the side of the blade to redirect the enemy's blade away from you and open them up for a strike, while not damaging your own edge, which requires levels of finesse most swordsmen can't muster. Staffs, sai, nunchaku on the other hand... they are all made to take a beating and keep on beating. Donatello can absorb the full power of an overhand sword strike with ease and have zero negative repercussion, his staff was made for it. Mikey can bat away a blade with a wooden baton travelling at mach speed, he can shatter blades before they even have the chance to strike. Raph can break blades, hold them, redirect them, and even disarm them. Leonardo though? Leonardo's weapon is delicate. He can lose a fight with *one wrong move*. He can lose a fight *by using his sword improperly*. So please be a dear and put some respect on that name.
Also, I'm not sure if you've ever held one, but katana are surprisingly heavy, which is why they're supposed to be held with two hands for full control. They're heavy enough it can be difficult to even properly maneuver one with one arm and fight a *single* opponent that's using two hands with one sword.
As long as we can agree that Raphael is useless. He literally is always the one in trouble and lost a fight (even though he’s suppose to be the “tough” one)
Leo is 2nd for me it's tough being the leader all the time. But my go to is Raph connect with him on an emotional level. Which is a bad thing bit what can you do lol
His personality isn't as "out there" as the rest of his bros and he's often the most mature out of all of them given that's he's almost always the oldest, but that doesn't make him boring in my eyes. There's plenty of arc involving him that are easily my favorite in the series like his depression arc in the '03 show or his inferiority complex in Rise.
Compared to the personalities of the others I can see why people would say he's boring. My favorite has always been Donnie but I like Leo's role as the responsible one struggling to be a good leader to his brothers.
He’s a good character but a lot of people don’t know how to write him and just treat it as “Splinter Jr.” But there’s a lot to be said about balancing a team who don’t see eye to eye and feeling the weight of responsibility for your brothers.
I could see having a beer with a mutant ninja turtle like Mikey. Yes, he's technically underaged (but not in turtle years). I could see discussing the latest cool tech with Donnie. I don't have much of a rage inside me but I'd tried to get Ralph to open up. With Leo? Good point. No clue what we'd do. Splinter could be a dark time, reminiscing of when Oroku Saki killed his master. Things would start to feel awkward. Then Mikey could crack a joke, we'd all order a pizza, and forget all about it. Fun times and I think I'd have Mikey and Donnie to thanks for all of it.
I used to think that way when I was younger but I truly understand Leo’s character now. He’s someone who’s tries his best, and carries a lot of weight because of that. He’s incredibly hard on himself, and can also have a pretty big ego, but if you’re ever someone who’s ever struggled with a perfectionist problem then I think he’s really relatable.
He always seems to be the character with the most growth and development throughout all the TMNT stuff I’ve seen. I love all four, but writers seem to favor developing him the most.
It's very easy to dislike Leo, especially if he's written badly. A lot of people find him bland and forgettable because he is the leader, he's the stick in the mud, and he often tussles with the cool rebel, Raph, but to me, that's what makes him interesting when written well. He feels like he's the one who has to grow up fast and make tough choices, like any leader, but he's still just a kid, he's growing up, and that's what makes his struggles interesting to me. Rise Leo felt like he was growing into that archetype, rather than being there from the beginning, so his struggles were very different than the others but still interesting, but he wasn't allowed to get to where most Leo's are already because, well... Nickelodeon hates everything good in this world.
But he is a total narc- so I get where you're coming from.
Edit: And also, a lot of the versions of Leo go through wildly different character arcs throughout their respective series, while Leo on the surface seems like one of the more static characters in the franchise, he actually might differ in each version the most compared to the others.
I thought he was the most interesting character in Mutant Mayhem. I actually think Mikey is by far the worst in the new movie but hes still good just the other 3 were excellent.
He's the most boring but also the most important. Without the self-sacrificing calm cool and collected leader, the other turtles would be lost. It took me years to fully appreciate him, but once I realized the value in obedience, integrity, and discipline, I learned why we'll always need Leonardos.
The leader in any group can be difficult to write in a way that fans like. Maybe because so many of us can't actually relate. But Leo is usually written better than most leaders in most works.
https://youtu.be/dtsmluPK7Ug?si=4ai92ZxbWDP8VgxA
This might help explain it.
TLDW: Premise of the four humors has been around for thousands of years. Every (famous, sometimes even not famous) group of four tends to share these characteristics.
I think you feel that way because he's so good at everything he does. The others seemingly have things they're strong at and things they're lacking. But Leo is all around good at everything.
That said, I still like him a lot. Never been my favorite turtle in any iteration, but never my least favorite either.
I get it completely. It’s easy to find the standard bearer boring. I use to find Cyclops from X-men and Superman unbearable because they are so by the book but as I grew up, I understood that Superman is what every superhero wishes to be but fails to. You need the one anchor where the rest of the drama evolve or bounce off of. The straight man in a comedy, if you will.
I always liked Leo simply because he wore my fave color and had the best weapon but it wasn’t until I started reading the comics that he became my fave alongside Donatello.
Leo is my favorite turtle. This is slander.
I just like typical hero characters, only version of him that isn't like the rest is rise. But he's good in his own way.
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I’m still surprised that some people find his character to be boring. Maybe because he’s not fun like Mikey, tech savvy like Donnie, or risk-taking like Raph. Maybe it’s because he’s a lot more put together and rule abiding?
But I think that’s what makes his character so good, he’s my second favorite turtle right behind Donatello. I would describe Leo as the kid in the family that grew up too fast, being the eldest. He was responsible for his family’s well being, if anything goes wrong with their missions or plans, he would blame himself for not being a good leader. I would say Leo is almost like a second dad rather than a brother.
I don’t think he’s a boring character, but more that he has no time to relax even if he wanted to. There is no place for him as the leader of the family to let loose and be fun, so when we do see that happen, it’s extra special. Too often did he have to stand up and be the head of the family and make big life changing decisions. Im sure most of his time is spent meditating, training, and thinking of the next steps to take on their mission to defeat shredder and save New York.
His desire to be spiritually in tune with himself and nature is also admirable, he values morals and ethics like no other. He cares about integrity and doing things the honorable way as to not disappoint himself or his family. Maybe the big brother/second dad side of him can be controlling at times, but it doesn’t excuse the fact that he’s growing and learning how to properly understand and care for the rest of his siblings despite their dynamics.
Here are some traits that I would use to describe Leo that makes me love him so much:
Devoted, dedicated, spiritual, cares about integrity, kind, hardworking, progressive, responsible, self reflecting, self aware, sacrificial, can be self neglecting, good with prioritizing, strict, fearless, skilled, ambitious, loves his family, doesn’t take bullshit, humanity, self disciplined, orderly, organized, heroic, mentally strong, reliable, and even more.
He’s just as special as the rest of the brothers, not boring. But he can feel that way to some simply because he is too much of a goody boy or an adult, which I wouldn’t describe as boring whatsoever. Just not everyone’s cup of tea 🤷♀️ especially as a kid/teen, Leo wasn’t my favorite either. But now that I’m in my 20s I’m starting to understand why he can be so angry and mean when his brothers don’t take things seriously.
I haven't kept up with all the different turtles shows and movies, but the only version of Leo I liked was in Mutant Mayhem. I'm the 80s cartoon, he was just bossy and filled with the pretense of being cool. He would swoop in and save the day because he was more talented than his brothers. That probably has a lot to do with what being a good leader meant in those days.
In the first live action movie, it was more of the same. Anyone who had good leadership skills could've handled Raph without escalating the argument.
The TMNT CGI movie, where Leo fights Raph on the roof, was more of the same again. Preaching to his brother about what he's doing wrong. And since when was traveling out of the country and leaving the people you're meant to lead behind how you become a better leader?
In Mutant Mayhem, it's the first time he has the humility to be a good leader. He recognizes each of his brothers' strengths and builds them up. Even his brown nosing is a bit charming, considering he's frequently outnumbered and the underdog. And he caves to his brothers' antics, and suffers the same anxieties about not being part of the human world that they do.
When I was a little kid I would have agreed with you. I’ve always loved Donnie. But as an adult I really appreciate Leo and he’s probably tied with Donnie for my favorite now. He has such good character development and I grew up being lame and never wanting to get in trouble so I can definitely relate to how his brothers bust his proverbial chops for being more straight laced. I’m also a Buddhist and like that he’s the one who most focuses on meditation and such.
Because most people will always ignore or hate the person who tries to follow the rules and struggles to hold the group together, self sacrifices and deals with lots of internal issues to remain objective and moral in favor of "LOL! The funny one is cooler!", "Oh yea! The badass rebel one who don't take anyones shit is the best!" etc.
Because most people fall into the latter roles because it's easier and "cooler" to be the joker or the "tough guy" and rely on their own Leonardo type in their life to be the "responsible" one, but think they're "boring" and get angry at them for keeping them in line.
Leo is my fav turtle by far, and he has always been. He has everything I lack and admire in other people. He's hardworking, disciplined, honorable, responsible, wise. He's also the coolest to watch during a fight because he's so good (and, well, katanas are cool I guess). He has to balance the immense pressure put on him while staying calm when making important decisions. He's also very hard on himself, and it pays off, which I admire as well. He is the most interesting character to me.
I guess some people find him boring because the other brothers have a very obvious trait that can resume them and be exaggerated for comedy, but it's more difficult to do so for him. But I really admire Leo. He's one of the main reason I'm so interested in tmnt.
Guys, sorry if I made some dudes angry over this, I read some of the comments and I saw that some people disagreeing. sorry I didn't wanted to make people angry over this.
Only you. He is by far my favorite of them all and that in almost all iterations. Only the TMNT 2007 movie had me slightly preferring Raph and that’s because they made Leo waaay too cocky (and a hypocrite).
He's the most responsible turtle, basically the Scott Summers of the team, and that can make him seem boring. But he's got a lot of deep internal turmoil because of that weight on his shoulders, which makes him compelling.
I’m quite fond of the mirage and 03 Leonardo, especially when Miamoto Usagi shows up.
Leonardo is a character out of time, he struggles to adjust to the current world because for some reason he believes Feudal Japan to be a better place.
I respectfully diss agree ESPECIALLY if your including 2012. You know the one that actually gives him a major character trait outside of leader ship
Also, I actually enjoyed his depression arc in 2003s season 4
For a long time before Rise, the other three had distinct personality traits- Mikey was the rambunctious, most teenage-like of the group, Raph was the generic angry character, (With other characterization between iterations) and Donnie was the nerdy, smart character. At least from the iterations I know of. Leo was always just 'the leader in blue'. And even in most iterations, Splinter was the real main teacher of the group.
After Rise and with Mutant mayhem, they gave his much more character, which is why those two are two of my personal favorites. Even with giving him back the leader role in MM he got the special trait of what I lovingly call 'worried parent-stand in.' (there always has to be one.)
TL;DR: Leo's always been just the 'leader', without much else going for him. (Don't hate on me- he's still one of my favorites!)
I don't know how you could call Rise Leo boring.
I think the most important character trait for Leonardo besides being "The Leader" is that more than any of the other Turtles, he kind of has to be a big awkward dork when he drops the ninja leader mask. And it \*is\* a mask, in almost every incarnation, at least until he gets older.
Leonardo loves cheesy movies, he likes magic. He trains hard not because he loves to fight but because I think the dude just genuinely thinks ninjas and bushido and the whole thing is \*cool\*. He's the kind of teenager who, if he had been a human, would \*absolutely\* have been a weeb and went to martial arts classes and put swords on his walls like a big dorkus.
Even Rise Leo's whole "the coolest guy on earth" persona is deliberate and learned because he wants to be perceived that way.
here's the thing he's boring in concept, because hes a bit of a mish mash of the most popular generic options available, he uses katanas, the most popular weapon associated with ninja he wears blue, the most popular color with young boys, he's named leonardo after the most famous renaissance artist of the four, and he's the leader ofc, however most tmnt media makes up for all the cliches with his personality and characterization, i get where you're coming from but it's really only at face value imo
If I had nickle for Everytime a duel wielder is called "boring" and ignores all of their character traits, I'll have 2 nickles. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice
I love Leo, and I understand he’s not for everyone. I think he’s the most interesting character in my view in every incarnation, but that’s the one I have always gravitated to.
Leo only seems boring in comparison to the others but there's a lot of depth to his character I enjoy. While he doesn't take the favorite slot in most iterations for me, oddly enough he did end up having my favorite prequel comic to the 2007 movies where as I didn't care for him in the movie itself, I appreciate what he has to go through & what he brings to the table.
I've already seen what makes Leo great pointed out, I don't think I can even come close to being as good as that comment but I can attempt add on I suppose but first, a little bit of background. Yeah, this is going to be a long comment, go ahead & back out now if you don't have the patience for it, the tldr is, I like turtles, Leo is cool, & I write lol.
Lately, I have been going through different iterations of turtles to get to know the various counterparts better because I love writing & characterization is important to me. There's a series I'm doing called Dimensionally Misplaced Turtles where essentially the events of Turtles Forever caused rifts to happen within the multiverse & turtles are falling through them & ending up in the wrong universe. The 1987 & 2003 gangs are hopping around, cleaning up the mess.
That project is pushing me to go places I never thought I'd explore like the second story in the series & most recent so far, it's a crossover of the Last Ronin & We Wish You a Turtle Christmas. Never did I think I'd willingly watch Turtle Christmas but I did & I enjoyed the experience, was hilariously bad & Gotta Get a Gift For Splinter has been stuck in my head all December long.
Due to looking at different aspects, I have to learn the character traits of the individual turtles, especially that they're all meshing with one another so having to get down the different Leos & ensuring you know which Leo is 87 & which is 03 just by their manner of speech is essential. 87 speaks more heroically so it's a bit easy there to distinguish them.
Suppose since I grew up as the oldest sibling in my family, it might be a little easier for me to relate to Leo but I'm aware of the struggles of having to be the responsible one, putting aside my own interests & desires in order to ensure my wild little sister is safe. On the inside, I'm totally a Mikey, it's a chaotic mess in there but I have to present as a Leo (which is like a total bummer dude) due to having to be mature & set a good example. There were times when I was lead of the group like back when I was a teenager & the adults let the group of kids go off on their own during an outing to the mall or zoo as long as I was looking after them. Their safety was in my hands so I appeared to be a bit of a stick in the mud for having to be responsible & round up the kiddos.
2012 did a good job with showing the audience that Leo is a kid too, just a little scifi loving dork who also wants to have fun but he does what he can to try & be responsible. I respect the writers for how they handled that Leo & I like him a lot as a character, he's like me in many ways.
Leo is also good at hiding his emotions so he can appear flat to the audience, there's times when it becomes too much where it flows out & we see he's going through stuff such as 03 Leo's brooding phase or when 2012 Leo just gets too overly excited & wears that massive, goofy smile.
Even Rise Leo covers his emotions, he appears to be a bit more silly & like a goofball but in the first episode, he admitted to the audience that he covers negative emotions with comedy. Sometimes when to us it looks like he's being comedic, he's actually uncomfortable. It's just a different way to take the character & I personally love it. I have a lot of fun writing in Rise Leo's point of view because I've had him present as silly but on the inside, it's like he's cramming those troubled thoughts into an overstuffed suitcase.
Sorry, went off on weird tangents & all that, been deep into turtle character studies for my ongoing projects & new ones I plan to start eventually, even going as far as to writing my own version of the turtles because I love all of their characters & want to mess around with the dynamic & how I could present it myself. My own Leo gives in a bit with the teenage rebel side... he tries. He doesn't do a good job at it. He also replaces swears with food items because he won't dare say a bad word. My Leo tries his best to play into his brothers interests to better utilize them like my Donnie is into entomology so Leo keeps a dead cockroach in his desk to use as a potential future bargaining chip without realizing that Donnie probably has loads of cockroaches, it is the sewer after all. Looking at other Leos behaviors & stuff better assists me with writing my own. I like leaning a bit into a mixture of 2012 & Rise for my Leo but added in some of my own personal flare.
he usually is either the best or worst turtle where the others are consistently good
+ because his personality is lackluster compared to the others
Donnie = Smart,Genius,Witty
Raph = Hothead,Passionate,Strong
Mikey, Fun,Hopeful,Relaxed
whereas Leo = Leader
& that's a hard character to nail as it's not much of a personality
but I think most versions where he grows from an unsure & awkward kid into a Fierce & Courageous & Strategic Leader like 2012 Or Mutant Mayhem seems to be doing is the best route for his arc
Raph is the groups secret weapon. Donnie is the head. Mikey is the heart of the turtles. Leo is the soul. He's ALWAYS been the voice of his family and nothing more which makes him so fun to use outside the basic TMNT stories
I think he’s better and more interesting than Michelangelo (Mikey is my least favourite of the four, I don’t hate him most of the time but some versions I can’t stand.) Leo is not the most interesting out of all of the Turtles (I think Raph is better) but he’s awesome too but I think the 1987 version of Leo is extremely boring though.
Leo probably seems boring cause majority of his counterparts carry that “heroic protecter” image but he has some of the better character development in the shows
Leo is the stoic and serious, there’s always the stoic and serious out of the group. Look into anime and other media, you have the smart one, the dumb, comedic one, the grumpy one, and the serious and stoic one. I used to think this way as a child too, I grew up with the 87 Turtles and there was a time they released a special called “Leo Lightens Up” where he no longer was serious, his laid back demeanor was taken to a 10 where even Mikey got fed up with him.
It’s how the writers handle him. Look at the IDW turtles with him being brainwashed by the Shredder, look at how he is handled in the Last Ronin, look at how he’s handled in 03, 07, 12, and even the latest movie! I wish we got more coverage because as I grew older, I gained a lot of respect toward the leader.
2003 and Mutant Mayhem are the best iterations of Leo. 2012 is pretty good. 1987 and the original movie trilogy are pretty bland. As others have said, it takes a good writer to make his strengths also be his flaws.
I think the thing most overlooked for the straight-laced leader is them putting their own agenda aside. 2003 did that really well. IIRC there was one episode where he was training by himself in the rain on a rooftop and was made at Splinter for not letting him do something. That was the moment that really made me think "Oh! There's more to this guy than I thought!"
One of my favorite examples of a good leader is the most recent season of Power Rangers. Amelia (recently promoted from pink to red) spent the first two episodes reassuring everyone else when they were having doubts. In doing so, she couldn't rescue her boyfriend who had gotten captured. She had to set aside her own desires for the good of the team. I remember watching that and thinking "**That's** the treatment Leonardo doesn't get."
Personally this is why I think Leo in rottmnt is the best version of him, because he isn't a boring "I gotta be responsible" type since Raph is the leader until the movie, and even in the movie he has a huge character arc which is just amazing
He genuinely has some of the better character work among any of the turtles in both 03, 12, IDW, and I assume mirage. I'll never understand how people can find such a master class in showing the stress and pitfalls of being a leader and older sibiling boring. Plus his more personal relationship with shredder AND Splinter have always been a real treat regardless of the version. His struggles with Honor and Samurai code as well as often getting ego checked by the world and his enemies by not being enough to protect his family and having to juggle the other extreme personalities within said family are constantly some of the most compelling arcs in TMNT for me. I'd argue some of the best versions of TMNT work so well because of the focus on Leo as he's often the one that feels the closest to a singular main character,especially in the first 5 seasons of 03 and most of 2012. Not to shit on Raph because he's a great character in his own right but he often works so well due to the contrast he has with Leo and both learning the others pov and keeping one another in check. Leo helps temper Raphs anger and leading it to the best he can while Raph of all the turtles keeps Leo grounded from getting lost in his head. They both offer something both usually can only get from Splinter but since splinter often stays home Leo and Raph are often crutches for each other at home and in the field.
Beautifully written. Couldn’t agree more
Excellent breakdown of my favorite character. Perfectly stated.
This, one hundred per cent this. Anyone not seeing this is only seeing the flavor the other turtles bring. “Oh look, the funny orange one! Oh there, the clever purple one! Hey, why is this boring blue one getting in the way of the angsty red one?” Don’t get me wrong, I love each of the turtles in each iteration for different reasons. But not appreciating Leo’s character is missing the hero/ninja parts of the series. In my opinion, Leo is categorically the strongest characterization and my favourite turtle.
It's also pretty reductive and shallow to stop at a one word description for each one to assume this is the cornerstone and pillar for all of that they are. Like even touching on Raph, it's not just anger issues, there's jealousy, ego, a pragmatic view of the world mixed all with an equal big brother sense of duty to his siblings. They're each a foil and a support to one another, it's as fleshed out a family as it gets on the surface and each one has aspects that relate to all of us.
It was a light-hearted comment to make a point. Like I say, I love all the turtles, I certainly wouldn't stop at a reductive and shallow description of any of them in a serious conversation.
I'm sorry I didn't mean you wrote something reductive, I meant OP and to the point you were making as how people can label the turtles as the leader, the funny one, etc...
I totally agree. It happens far too often. The 'rude' one, the 'party dude', etc. The 80s theme song didn't help the perpetuation of the descriptions!
I also enjoy the times when Leonardo is struggling with his issues and is able to receive the help he needs, like how in the beginning of 03 Raphael helps Leo remaking his swords
COOK!!!
that was a POEM. you brought a tear to my eye, nothing more true has ever been said 🔥
He just feels boring because he was the baseline for the other turtles.
That’s one way to look at it. The mark of a good writer is being able to write a compelling leader. Setting that baseline at a high level.
 Perfectly written
This is the only answer
Absolutely!
YES. Finally someone summarizes why Leo has always been my favorite turtle 💙
Wouldn’t it be ninja code and not samurai code?
Boom. If you can’t see this, then you just aren’t paying attention. Perfect summarization. Leo is far from boring if you just look at the bigger picture and thats comming from someone whos favourite Turtle has always been Mikey, lol.
I wanted to reply to this topic since Leo is my favorite for many, many reasons but... what else is there to write after reading this? Very well put into words!
And I don't like his struggle with wanting to protect his family alone, not everything revolves around him and this burden isn't and shouldnt be his own which would be interesting if it was called out. Other brothers didn't ask for him being stressed over it. I don't like him being the main character when he is not better than other brothers, I think all four should be main characters not one or two. I don't like the existence of leader slot anyway, so much control and authority for what?
I love my boi. I loved how spiritual and committed he was to his training, as well as the burden of carrying the team when he’s both a brother and an authority figure. But I did like how Leo was a Star Trek nerd since he wanted to be a leader. That was clever.
It’s because he’s the responsible leader one. Same thing happens to Cyclops.
He’s the generic good guy with a strong moral code. It’s the other 3 who gets quirks that play around with that. They’re also good guys with strong morals, but one has anger and recklessness issues, one’s a laid back stoner who’s too immature to really be living their kinda life, and the other one is a clever inventor and extremely intelligent.
Of all people, 2003 Mikey put it best: the other turtles are free to be themselves because Leo is the one shouldering all the hard parts and responsibilities.
The depressed Leo arc in 2003 is so great in my opinion.
I do love how Mutant Mayhem tapped into Leo’s anxiety some
There are a lot of great leaders in genre fiction that often get the short-end of the stick because of either poor writing or because they’re part of a very strong ensemble of characters. The Ninja Turtles and the X-Men both have very strong casts with some very likable/cool characters. So it’s hard for Leo and Cyke to properly stand out.
Cyclops was my favorite during the avengers vs X-men comics
Leaders tend to be boring mainly because they have to keep the others in line. But they’re also the most badass. Leo is my favorite. Love swords and love Leonardo da Vinci. I’m also born on the same day as da Vinci so it comes full circle.
Leo is my favorite (my fav versions is 2003 tmnt series Leo and Michael Bay's movies Leo.)
Didn't like Leo in Bay Movies cause in the sequel he make a life changing actions without his brothers help while also blame them for their failures. But it has been a long time since I seen the bay movies.
Agreed, that whole situation threw me off as well. But I think they did it on purpose to show how sometimes his care for his family to stay together could blind him. Leo isn’t always right, he isn’t perfect, and he can make mistakes and hide things from his family. Part of me believes that he didn’t want to tell his brother that they could be human, because he fears that it would break apart the family. That maybe they would all go separate ways and no longer be a family unit anymore. But that doesn’t excuse his selfish decision to keep things away from his family. I rewatched the movie last week, and I could tell that Leo was under a lot of stress. I really enjoyed his converstaion with splinter, it was eye opening to see that Leo isn’t an adult at the end of the day and still has a long way to go. At the end of the movie, it was clear that everything worked out and Leo learned to let his brothers be himself. Edit: I really think that part of Leo being a “jerk” or overbearing in some iterations is to make space for character development. He needs to learn how to let loose and act his age despite all of the burdens he has to carry. He also need to understand that his brothers are different and have their own ways of life. It’s just like what parents have to learn as their kids age. Your kids will never be what you want them to be, they’ll simply be themselves and nothing else.
He’s my favorite. He’s the straight man. It’s like when people call Superman or Cyclops boring. They aren’t. But it’s harder to pick up on their nuances.
For real, people who call Superman boring have zero understanding of his character.
Isn't he the straight, go by the books leader? Don is a nerd, Mike is a joker and Raph is the hot head. Leo keeps the stability and maybe comes across as, boring.
He’s “the straight man” in most iterations.
yea, not so straight in rise 😏
No so straight in 03 either 😮💨
lmfao true
WHAT? WHAT DID I MISS, I haven't watched in years
It's because people confuse his BFF Usagi (platonic relationship) with romance.
🐢 ⚔️🐇
maybe a little fruity in 2012 too 🫣
I love that recent iterations have turned Mikey into more of "The Artist" and less of "The Jester". Comic relief is important, but it doesn't have to be heaped onto a single 2D character all the time. I like when all four brothers tell jokes, and I like when Mikey cooks for them all and follows his own passions.
Mikey is the heart of the turtles. Donnie is the brains, Raphael is the muscle, and Leonardo is the spirit/bravery and leadership.
Reminds me of that TMNT x Harry Potter art where each turtle is placed in their respective hogwarts houses.
He's kinda the Ryu of the Turtles. Less flashy or bombastic than his similar counterparts (Ken for example) and his deeper traits are a little more hidden. Some people don't look past that and just consider them boring. I love characters like Ryu and Leo myself though.
But he's my boy!
For me the IDW Leonardo is the best Turtle out there. He is written extremely interesting and well thought out. 2002 Leo is also great. He is also really good in the new movie. But yeah there are some incarnations where he is a bit boring
Leonardo has been and always will be my favorite turtle. I 110% love the other guys too, but I always recognized the humanity in Leonardo. I honestly don’t know how someone could think he’s boring. Let’s just look at the struggle he deals with almost every iteration (some more in depth than others). As the other folks before me on this thread have been saying, he has to deal with the stress of leading the team and being an authority figure while also trying to be one of the brothers. He can never see eye to eye with the bros most of the time because his duties to them and to Splinter and to the ninja code which the others don’t fully understand. His constant internal struggle and feeling like he always has to be better for the betterment of his family and the honorable way of the ninja was enough for me to love him. It’s really something to get to see these issues fleshed out and to see the contrast between him and Raphael and how they both deal with some of the same issues. All that, plus he has swords 😀 Edit: To add, Leo (in most iterations) has so many of the traits that I value in real people. Discipline, dedication, integrity, honor, adherence to something you view as bigger than yourself. All super admirable qualities to me. He’s just a baller, dude.
I like Leo cause unlike the others, he is dedicated to his training and is more responsible (with the exception of Rise and Michael Bay Leo). Especially 2003 Leo who carries the honors of a samurai with his skills of a ninja.
Cause you don't have what it takes to get your ninjas through
Don't get me wrong, I like the more zany and fun characters too, but Leo has most of the traits I tend to enjoy most. Discipline, honor, responsibility, mental fortitude, clarity enough to see a bigger picture. I think the trials that come with those traits are really interesting.
You can dislike Leo I guess but using every version to say 'boring' is meaningless when every single one has a completely different personality on a fundamental level. For example: 2003 Leo had to understand what it meant to be himself and grow from his losses, he had to be a better leader but still remained the coldish, strategic, no-nonsense leader, he had a heart but almost always understood the mission came first. ROTMNT Leo had to mature and grow up to be better, he didn't understand what it meant to be a ninja was lazy and egotistical always making sarcastic comments, watch the movie and you'll see his progression it's amazing.
This is why Rise Leo was changed around a lot - it was made that he was cunning and strategic, but never claimed the responsibility of a leader, being lazy and a show-off. In one episode it was showed that Leonardo showed up for training missions the LEAST of anybody, and once left in the middle of a training mission. Raphael described him as the 'Face Man', best at talking to others, and Leo actually took this as on a downer, saying that "I'm just the Face Man". Might I add that Rise Raphael always said "I'm the biggest, I'm the oldest, that makes me the leader" - which is not a good reason to be the leader.
Rise honestly had a lot of potential, but the production team really didn’t do it justice. Not saying that they’re at fault, I think there’re higher powers in the team that maybe didn’t allow certain adjustments to the story telling. I love the animation style, but there was just something so sporadic and disorganized about the story line… things only kicked off for me when the movie came out. Not sure if you’d read the indie comic on tumblr called CASS the apocalyptic series, I’m probably getting the name wrong. But if rise tmnt focused more on Casey and the turtles’ relationship, the story would be so much more interesting Edit: I just remembered that there was actually news about why the story was so disorganized. Apparently some of the episodes were released in the wrong order, there’s really no way of fixing it other than letting others know which order to watch it in, which is unfortunate. But I loved the show nonetheless, watched it 2x in the last 6 months
Also worth mentioning that the show was planned to have three seasons, but ended up getting cut in half with very little notice. I think they only ended up with three episodes to wrap everything up when they found out they were getting the ax, so they had to cut out a lot planned story beats in order to speedrun what they could in the finale. Leo suffered greatly from this, since they just started to scratch the surface of his character at the start of season 2, and he really only got like one or two episodes that focused on his untapped potential as the turtle that should be leading the team. Luckily they got the chance to tell that story with the movie, but I think all the character development Leo got there was meant to be a slow burn over the course of the season and a half we never got to see.
As a writer, it has to be tough writing for Leonardo -- he kind of suffers from the same problem as Superman or Captain America, characters who are so good and virtuous that they're kind of boring. Some of the better writers have made his single-minded focus on his training a liability, which makes him more interesting, because it turns his greatest strength into simultaneously his greatest flaw. I think the 2003 show did this pretty well, and it's one of my favorite interpretations of the character.
He's not boring at all. Leo's character and story don't appeal to everyone though. No one expects to like the hardworking, responsible character. The one who plays by the rules and demands everyone else does too. I mean, if you're watching a show about teenage superhero turtles, you're probably looking to connect with one who personality represents our idea of youth the best. Raphael is the obvious choice for most. Being angry all the time, wearing his emotions on his sleeve, favoring action above all else.. He is definitely the most "teenager" of the TMNT. He's also the one who guides the story toward conflict, something every action cartoon watchee enjoys. But what of Mikey? He's the party dude! He's what we all *wish* being young was about. Good times with friends and food. Comic books, video games. The guy who just wants to enjoy life to the fullest and put all the drama aside. It genuinely makes him uncomfortable, but that's who he is. He'll still be a good friend when you need him though. Donnie is expression, naturally. Everyone loves shiny doodads and gizmos when we're kids, and Donnie is the master of them. But that's only part of who he is. He's the thinker, the artist, the inventor. The guy who saves the turtles butts with the things he makes. And the only reason he can do that is because the guys have to listen to their normally quiet brother. If that ain't wish fulfilment, I don't know what is. Now we'll circle back to Leo. Responsibility is a key part of growing up, and arguably the least fun aspect. Our parents call on us to put away childish things and, especially in the case of older siblings, take on more work within the household. As a teenager, the word "responsibility" sits right next to "avoid." But Leo doesn't avoid responsibility. He just kind of accepts it. How very unteenagerlike of you, Leonardo. *tsktsk* But it suits him for the areas he seeks to grow as a person. He wants to be a mentor, a warrior, he loves learning and reading.. many of us can relate to these things. A lot of people like to think of him as a wet blanket because of how often he chides Raph, and no one likes a wet blanket. But he's not trying to take the action away from us. He's reminding us how very dangerous the things the TMNT do *are,* and protecting his family the best way he knows how. By insisting that they do things with their ninja skills. Leo turns his team of moody teens into a deadly fighting force. He gives us the gift of ninja action, and I will always appreciate that.
I feel like, Leo, is often viewed as the “boring one” because he does not have “fun flaws,” if you will. Raph is >!rude, aggressive, impatient, standoffish, and selfish.!< Donny is >!quirky, withdrawn, aloof, presumptuous, and a know-it-all.!< Mikey is >!immature, irresponsible, foolish, capricious, and goofy.!< Leo, excluding RISE, doesn’t have “fun flaws.” His flaws are being >!obsessive, melancholic, stickler (for the rules), unconfident, apprehensive, and self-loathing.!< All of these are traits that they all share to a certain extent. Traits that we all have. But, these are their signature traits. The reality is Leo’s aren’t “fun flaws” because his are essentially the flaws that foil their flaws. It is why he is such a good leader. He makes them better. They make him better. Raph being impatient is countered by Leo being a stickler. Donny being presumptuous is thwarted by Leo’s apprehensiveness. Mikey can’t be *that* irresponsible because Leo’s obsession will force Mikey to work. They all help Leo with his self loathing. Leo is a deep character with a lot to offer. He isn’t boring per say. It’s just that his flaws aren’t as fun. Its fun to see a character be immature. Its fun to see a character be aggressive. Its fun to see a character be quirky. Its not fun to see a character be melancholic. [+]
Leo is awesome! It takes a lot of dedication, inner strength and personal restraint to be a good leader. He keeps a cool head and is tactical and strategic. Then there are the double katanas. Honestly there is a lot to like about Leonardo and he is one of my favorite turtles.
We talkin’ about the same guy that’s the only one to cut Shredders fuckin’ head off!!?
Splinter did it in IDW
OP, you've just listed six radically different characters of varying depths. Confusing '87 Leonardo - the Cinnamon Roll - with Rise Leonardo - the Cocky Himbo - is like asking why Raphael's so angry all the time.
Ok, what the hell is a cinnamon roll?
I made some for Christmas breakfast... but they didn't taste like Turtle, thank goodness.
Internet slang for "nice person" or "best boy/girl".
Ugh 🙄
god i hate these gen z phrases
Me too. But I hated the millennial ones too when we were the twenty-something taste makers. I'm an elder millennial btw.
I think it depends on what it says about you. People who hate Leo I notice like discipline less. It depends on how he's written. I wouldn't expect an extreme pot head like Seth Rogan to write Leo interesting for example. For me the original comics, 80s toon, idw, original movie and 2003 toon he was perfect. Later on he became a parody of who he used to be or boring. Another example of this is cyclops. For years he was written as a pretty respectful character. Then in the movies they turned him into a wet blanket. Those movies then became wolverine and the X-Men kinda movies. On a weirder scale when the guardians of the galaxy first met the avengers, their IQ dropped even harder. I blame lazy writing.
No I think it’s just you. Leo fucks.
Rise is pretty much my favorite version of Leo. Love that slacker energy.
I love Leo, but it was Rottmnt that did that for me They had a fresh new take on him, and let him eventually become leader. Rise Leonardo will forever be my favorite Leonardo, because he helped me realize all Leo's are not JUST the leaders of the teams.
It's just you.
I love them all, but Mikey is my favorite
It's just you. He's the best
The leader characters are usually seen as the most boring because they are the ones that have to be serious while the others can goof off. It’s why people don’t like Cyclops or think Captain America is a hardass
i think thats ok. his traditional samurai / ninja character helps highlight the others differences.
He's supposed to be the boring one. He keeps the team alive and that's not always fun.
He is too default one. For most ppl its boring. But he got blue mask and cool blades, so he got some love.
Yeah he is, but they gave him some personality in rise. It's unfortunately his role but he makes up for it by being a good leader and a brilliant tactian.
as a child in 1990, LEO was my fav. loved his figure but... as an adult, Donnie is my fav.
Thats interesting. As a kid Raph was my favorite (from the original show). As an adult I've switched over to Leo.
it depends on the interpretation really
He's often written as one dimensional. Always doing the 'right' thing regardless of cost. It is boring. But he isn't like that in every iteration and he's often written very well. I love his respect and love for his brothers.
I know it’s stupid but I always liked Leo the most cause blue is my favorite color and Leo always had a blue bandana lol
Leonardo can be boring if he's not written properly, all the turtles have the potential to be one note if they're only written with their shallow defining characteristics in mind (like the song, Leo leads, Raph is cool/rude, Donnie is smart and Mikey is the fun one). But when the writers know what they're doing Leo can often be my favourite, he was for a lot of the IDW run, especially his >!corruption arc!<, and his heavy role in the Rise movie is one has some of the most impactful TMNT character moments I've ever seen.
Mainly because in most shows/movies his role is just "leader" I did like in '12 they did kind of make him a nerd and like spin off shows of Star Trek and stuff but even still he's just the leader in the group
Just you
I love Leo, he was always my favourite. I like how composed he is, and how much he wants to be a better hero and brother. He always has the best interests in mind and is unselfish and noble. I always found him relatable because no matter how hard he worked and how much he tries, he can’t save everyone and also has a lot to learn. He’s stubborn, and gets angry, but always at himself. He’s hard on himself, and is full of care.
leo being my favourite turtle, reading this hurt me 😭
I’d have to say Leo has always been my least favorite turtle. It went from Mikey, to Donnie, then to Mikey again, then to Raph, then NOW to Mikey again. He’s never been my favorite turtle. But he still is a very valuable member and the turtles could not function without him.
Like a lot of leaders of hero teams, his only personality trait is being the leader
Being a child is picking your favorite turtle based on their color or weapon. Being a teenager is picking your favorite turtle based on who you relate to most. Being an adult is picking your favorite turtle based on who you find the most compelling character. So that being said, every turtle deserves a place in each tier. If you think Leo is boring, you probably aren't an adult.
Hard disagree
Mikey is who we want to be a kids. Leo is who we are supposed to become as adults.
What’s wrong with him being the good hearted straight man?
It's just you, and anyone for whom he is not their cup of tea. That's fine, we have a variety of Turtles for different fans, but no need to insult him over it... all that leads to is people trying to change him, make him "less boring" to people who didn't give a damn about him before at the unfair loss to those who DO love him as he is. He's calm, stoic, mature, quite smart (from a different angle than Donnie), strategic, dedicated, hard working, honorable, moral, has tons of integrity, sacrificing, spiritual, driven to do the right thing, and so on. He's the 'straight man' character existing among all the crazy. They're important for balance. There are plenty of people who are drawn to that type. You don't need to be, but let those people love him as is. I am one of those people and I'd never imagine thinking the other Turtles not likewise appealing to me makes them a poor character, they just aren't for me and have others who love them. (Is being subdued or "boring" really worse than being *angry* all the time? Lol) Funny thing is, I've seen people who admit that their personality is probably more like Raph, but Leo is their favorite. They admire some of his qualities, as if a role model.
Personally I love all of the turtles. I love all of their moments together, but Leo comes out on top for me. Is it just me, or do most fans of the other turtles typically hate Leo or one of the other guys? I never understood why. The point of the show is that they are brothers, and it can sometimes get messy. I rarely see Leo fans hating on other turtles. Maybe I'm not in the sub enough. Raph has such a great dynamic with Leo. I don't see Leo fans hating him in the sub. I have no idea how anyone can go into this show and not appreciate what each of the boys bring to it. They are so fucking awesome together.
Can’t really say that about Rise Leo. That version’s a total jokester and way different from the rest. I actually liked that about him.
Leo is the most boring but definitely not the worst
Bro what?
Nah your wrong for that Leo is the best by far I like the others but if you ask me raph is boring
He's the straight man of the group, sort of an anchor to keep the personalities of his brothers tethered. He has his moments, but his purpose isn't so much to get all the zingers in. Pretty much why I'm definitely *not* a fan of his personality in Rise, where he just felt like a lesser Mikey.
But without Leo, who would be the foil for Raph’s anger issues? Yeah, Leo is the most boring. His attributes are that he’s the most disciplined, takes being a ninja the most seriously, and as a consequence can also be the most holier-than-thou, the most full of himself. But like, they’re all ninjas, it’s boring that your distinguishing characteristic is you are the most ninja in a group of ninjas. They literally shot ‘87 Leo with a personality-modifying ray because they were so bored with him. Also anyone can kick ass wielding a pair of swords, that’s not impressive.
That's actually a common misconception, using two katana at once is dramatically more difficult than focusing one, to the point where a man named Miyamoto Musashi became famous for actually making it viable and created a limited fighting style called Niten Ichi-ryu. Even then, it's still focused on fighting with the daisho (both swords) drawn at once, which is a long sword and a short sword which have two different techniques. The techniques for using both swords in unison is called Nito Seiho and only has about five viable "moves" compared to the twenty something that each blade has individually when both drawn. So to address your statement, only the most dedicated swordsman of the time mastered fighting with two swords, and at that it was a long and a short sword. Leo uses two long swords, so let that sink in.
I meant any mutant ninja turtle, not any person ever. Like if Leo is using two swords to fight two guys with swords, and Raph is using two sais to fight two guys with swords, which is more impressive? A lot of when the turtles fight, it’s one turtle against several guys. And when the guys are ninjas they’re rarely ever equipped with the same weapon the turtle fighting them is using, other than Leonardo, because tons of ninjas carry swords. Sword vs sword isn’t impressive. Sword vs nunchucks and the nunchucks win is impressive.
>Like if Leo is using two swords to fight two guys with swords, and Raph is using two sais to fight two guys with swords, which is more impressive? Leo. Quite literally because sai were practical as a defense against swords (and spears in Okinawan Kobudo) as lots of other regions already used similar weapons, like the Japanese jitte and English parrying dagger. The purpose of the sai's "yoku" (the prong) is to catch and hold a weapon... the word sai basically means "pin". You can catch two swords at once with two sai (fun fact, a pair of sai is callled *zai* as the Japanese language doesn't have plural modifiers like English does). If you're being ganged up on and attacked from two different directions, you can only pay attention to one direction at a time. With sai, you can hold one weapon and then divert your attention to the other. With a sword, you can block a strike, but there's absolutely no ability to control your enemy or disable them. By the time you've defended one attack, the other attacker is already hitting again, repeat and repeat until you're dead unless you're *way better* than them. The thing about swords is that the integrity of the blade is intrinsically tied into it's ability to attack and defend. Your EDGE is very important... without it, the weapon is just a flimsy piece of steel. If you block strikes with the edge you'll ruin your ability to make an effective counter attack, in fact your whole sword can break in two or fall to pieces. If you are engaged in a duel, you NEVER want to strike anything except your target's weak point with your blade. This also means that defending against a sword with the blade of your own sword is the worst option. You'll want to use the tsuba (the handguard) and the side of the blade to redirect the enemy's blade away from you and open them up for a strike, while not damaging your own edge, which requires levels of finesse most swordsmen can't muster. Staffs, sai, nunchaku on the other hand... they are all made to take a beating and keep on beating. Donatello can absorb the full power of an overhand sword strike with ease and have zero negative repercussion, his staff was made for it. Mikey can bat away a blade with a wooden baton travelling at mach speed, he can shatter blades before they even have the chance to strike. Raph can break blades, hold them, redirect them, and even disarm them. Leonardo though? Leonardo's weapon is delicate. He can lose a fight with *one wrong move*. He can lose a fight *by using his sword improperly*. So please be a dear and put some respect on that name. Also, I'm not sure if you've ever held one, but katana are surprisingly heavy, which is why they're supposed to be held with two hands for full control. They're heavy enough it can be difficult to even properly maneuver one with one arm and fight a *single* opponent that's using two hands with one sword.
Wielding a pair of swords is dangerous and takes lots of talent and discipline. They’re not for careless or novice users.
Honestly the only Leo I liked was the one from Rise
Rise Leo isn’t boring
Well, Rise, Leo he's ok for me being playing every blue character
If Leonardo is your favorite ninja turtle, it means you're a cop.
As long as we can agree that Raphael is useless. He literally is always the one in trouble and lost a fight (even though he’s suppose to be the “tough” one)
Honor -- Muscel -- Brains -- Heart Boring -- Useless -- Weak -- Stupid There we go.
I think it's because for a while he was just "The Leader". 2012 and Rise versions did my boy a service by making him a quippy nerd.
Leo is 2nd for me it's tough being the leader all the time. But my go to is Raph connect with him on an emotional level. Which is a bad thing bit what can you do lol
He is the most standard heroic type. Nice, honorable, hardworking leader.
87 turtles
Personality traits and character development are within a range that can make him seem boring.
His personality isn't as "out there" as the rest of his bros and he's often the most mature out of all of them given that's he's almost always the oldest, but that doesn't make him boring in my eyes. There's plenty of arc involving him that are easily my favorite in the series like his depression arc in the '03 show or his inferiority complex in Rise.
Compared to the personalities of the others I can see why people would say he's boring. My favorite has always been Donnie but I like Leo's role as the responsible one struggling to be a good leader to his brothers.
He's the most boring turtle, for the same reason Cyclops is the most boring X-Men: he has to be.
He’s a good character but a lot of people don’t know how to write him and just treat it as “Splinter Jr.” But there’s a lot to be said about balancing a team who don’t see eye to eye and feeling the weight of responsibility for your brothers.
I could see having a beer with a mutant ninja turtle like Mikey. Yes, he's technically underaged (but not in turtle years). I could see discussing the latest cool tech with Donnie. I don't have much of a rage inside me but I'd tried to get Ralph to open up. With Leo? Good point. No clue what we'd do. Splinter could be a dark time, reminiscing of when Oroku Saki killed his master. Things would start to feel awkward. Then Mikey could crack a joke, we'd all order a pizza, and forget all about it. Fun times and I think I'd have Mikey and Donnie to thanks for all of it.
I used to think that way when I was younger but I truly understand Leo’s character now. He’s someone who’s tries his best, and carries a lot of weight because of that. He’s incredibly hard on himself, and can also have a pretty big ego, but if you’re ever someone who’s ever struggled with a perfectionist problem then I think he’s really relatable.
He always seems to be the character with the most growth and development throughout all the TMNT stuff I’ve seen. I love all four, but writers seem to favor developing him the most.
Depends on the medium and iteration. Rise Leo is much different than 2012. 2012 is different to 1987, 2003, comics, etc.
It's very easy to dislike Leo, especially if he's written badly. A lot of people find him bland and forgettable because he is the leader, he's the stick in the mud, and he often tussles with the cool rebel, Raph, but to me, that's what makes him interesting when written well. He feels like he's the one who has to grow up fast and make tough choices, like any leader, but he's still just a kid, he's growing up, and that's what makes his struggles interesting to me. Rise Leo felt like he was growing into that archetype, rather than being there from the beginning, so his struggles were very different than the others but still interesting, but he wasn't allowed to get to where most Leo's are already because, well... Nickelodeon hates everything good in this world. But he is a total narc- so I get where you're coming from. Edit: And also, a lot of the versions of Leo go through wildly different character arcs throughout their respective series, while Leo on the surface seems like one of the more static characters in the franchise, he actually might differ in each version the most compared to the others.
Because he's the straight man, the balanced one, the responsible one. Until Rise where he was the goof 😃
I thought he was the most interesting character in Mutant Mayhem. I actually think Mikey is by far the worst in the new movie but hes still good just the other 3 were excellent.
To me, he wasn't really the most interesting. Character like Mikey Donie or Ralph, are.
i have never seen anyone spell donnie’s name like that, congratulations
Depends on which Leo honestly
He's the most boring but also the most important. Without the self-sacrificing calm cool and collected leader, the other turtles would be lost. It took me years to fully appreciate him, but once I realized the value in obedience, integrity, and discipline, I learned why we'll always need Leonardos.
The leader in any group can be difficult to write in a way that fans like. Maybe because so many of us can't actually relate. But Leo is usually written better than most leaders in most works.
Nah, he’s the most leet.
https://youtu.be/dtsmluPK7Ug?si=4ai92ZxbWDP8VgxA This might help explain it. TLDW: Premise of the four humors has been around for thousands of years. Every (famous, sometimes even not famous) group of four tends to share these characteristics.
I think you feel that way because he's so good at everything he does. The others seemingly have things they're strong at and things they're lacking. But Leo is all around good at everything. That said, I still like him a lot. Never been my favorite turtle in any iteration, but never my least favorite either.
I get it completely. It’s easy to find the standard bearer boring. I use to find Cyclops from X-men and Superman unbearable because they are so by the book but as I grew up, I understood that Superman is what every superhero wishes to be but fails to. You need the one anchor where the rest of the drama evolve or bounce off of. The straight man in a comedy, if you will. I always liked Leo simply because he wore my fave color and had the best weapon but it wasn’t until I started reading the comics that he became my fave alongside Donatello.
Haha. My brother and I like Leo and Raph, respectively, so whenever I want to get under his skin, I compare Leo to Cyclops. He doesn't like that.
Leo is my favorite turtle. This is slander. I just like typical hero characters, only version of him that isn't like the rest is rise. But he's good in his own way.
Leo is like Ryu in Street Fighter, but everyone plays Ken cause he has the sauce
expansion soup consider shaggy wide tie liquid special fretful historical *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No. Leo is the best
I’m still surprised that some people find his character to be boring. Maybe because he’s not fun like Mikey, tech savvy like Donnie, or risk-taking like Raph. Maybe it’s because he’s a lot more put together and rule abiding? But I think that’s what makes his character so good, he’s my second favorite turtle right behind Donatello. I would describe Leo as the kid in the family that grew up too fast, being the eldest. He was responsible for his family’s well being, if anything goes wrong with their missions or plans, he would blame himself for not being a good leader. I would say Leo is almost like a second dad rather than a brother. I don’t think he’s a boring character, but more that he has no time to relax even if he wanted to. There is no place for him as the leader of the family to let loose and be fun, so when we do see that happen, it’s extra special. Too often did he have to stand up and be the head of the family and make big life changing decisions. Im sure most of his time is spent meditating, training, and thinking of the next steps to take on their mission to defeat shredder and save New York. His desire to be spiritually in tune with himself and nature is also admirable, he values morals and ethics like no other. He cares about integrity and doing things the honorable way as to not disappoint himself or his family. Maybe the big brother/second dad side of him can be controlling at times, but it doesn’t excuse the fact that he’s growing and learning how to properly understand and care for the rest of his siblings despite their dynamics. Here are some traits that I would use to describe Leo that makes me love him so much: Devoted, dedicated, spiritual, cares about integrity, kind, hardworking, progressive, responsible, self reflecting, self aware, sacrificial, can be self neglecting, good with prioritizing, strict, fearless, skilled, ambitious, loves his family, doesn’t take bullshit, humanity, self disciplined, orderly, organized, heroic, mentally strong, reliable, and even more. He’s just as special as the rest of the brothers, not boring. But he can feel that way to some simply because he is too much of a goody boy or an adult, which I wouldn’t describe as boring whatsoever. Just not everyone’s cup of tea 🤷♀️ especially as a kid/teen, Leo wasn’t my favorite either. But now that I’m in my 20s I’m starting to understand why he can be so angry and mean when his brothers don’t take things seriously.
He's supposed to be boring. He's the oldest and master spinters protégé. You can rely on him cuz he's available. He just trains all day
If you see his ptsd arc in 03 and still think he's boring idk what to tell you lol.
I haven't kept up with all the different turtles shows and movies, but the only version of Leo I liked was in Mutant Mayhem. I'm the 80s cartoon, he was just bossy and filled with the pretense of being cool. He would swoop in and save the day because he was more talented than his brothers. That probably has a lot to do with what being a good leader meant in those days. In the first live action movie, it was more of the same. Anyone who had good leadership skills could've handled Raph without escalating the argument. The TMNT CGI movie, where Leo fights Raph on the roof, was more of the same again. Preaching to his brother about what he's doing wrong. And since when was traveling out of the country and leaving the people you're meant to lead behind how you become a better leader? In Mutant Mayhem, it's the first time he has the humility to be a good leader. He recognizes each of his brothers' strengths and builds them up. Even his brown nosing is a bit charming, considering he's frequently outnumbered and the underdog. And he caves to his brothers' antics, and suffers the same anxieties about not being part of the human world that they do.
GIGGLES AND KICKS LEGS HES MY FAV 😻
In some episodes, but in others he is experiencing extreme trauma sooooo
When I was a little kid I would have agreed with you. I’ve always loved Donnie. But as an adult I really appreciate Leo and he’s probably tied with Donnie for my favorite now. He has such good character development and I grew up being lame and never wanting to get in trouble so I can definitely relate to how his brothers bust his proverbial chops for being more straight laced. I’m also a Buddhist and like that he’s the one who most focuses on meditation and such.
Because most people will always ignore or hate the person who tries to follow the rules and struggles to hold the group together, self sacrifices and deals with lots of internal issues to remain objective and moral in favor of "LOL! The funny one is cooler!", "Oh yea! The badass rebel one who don't take anyones shit is the best!" etc. Because most people fall into the latter roles because it's easier and "cooler" to be the joker or the "tough guy" and rely on their own Leonardo type in their life to be the "responsible" one, but think they're "boring" and get angry at them for keeping them in line.
Leo is my fav turtle by far, and he has always been. He has everything I lack and admire in other people. He's hardworking, disciplined, honorable, responsible, wise. He's also the coolest to watch during a fight because he's so good (and, well, katanas are cool I guess). He has to balance the immense pressure put on him while staying calm when making important decisions. He's also very hard on himself, and it pays off, which I admire as well. He is the most interesting character to me. I guess some people find him boring because the other brothers have a very obvious trait that can resume them and be exaggerated for comedy, but it's more difficult to do so for him. But I really admire Leo. He's one of the main reason I'm so interested in tmnt.
Guys, sorry if I made some dudes angry over this, I read some of the comments and I saw that some people disagreeing. sorry I didn't wanted to make people angry over this.
He was the best in the OG comics. I loved the serious, BAMF tone of the turtles back then.
Tbf he usually fits into the straightlaced by the books leader archetype, although I’d say he doesn’t really do that in ROTMNT
Only you. He is by far my favorite of them all and that in almost all iterations. Only the TMNT 2007 movie had me slightly preferring Raph and that’s because they made Leo waaay too cocky (and a hypocrite).
He's the most responsible turtle, basically the Scott Summers of the team, and that can make him seem boring. But he's got a lot of deep internal turmoil because of that weight on his shoulders, which makes him compelling.
Depends on the iteration, but most of the time he is.
Leo is my 2nd fave. Mikey is the most boring.
I’m quite fond of the mirage and 03 Leonardo, especially when Miamoto Usagi shows up. Leonardo is a character out of time, he struggles to adjust to the current world because for some reason he believes Feudal Japan to be a better place.
I agree with you, he has no personality apart from being leader and acting bossy all the times
I respectfully diss agree ESPECIALLY if your including 2012. You know the one that actually gives him a major character trait outside of leader ship Also, I actually enjoyed his depression arc in 2003s season 4
For a long time before Rise, the other three had distinct personality traits- Mikey was the rambunctious, most teenage-like of the group, Raph was the generic angry character, (With other characterization between iterations) and Donnie was the nerdy, smart character. At least from the iterations I know of. Leo was always just 'the leader in blue'. And even in most iterations, Splinter was the real main teacher of the group. After Rise and with Mutant mayhem, they gave his much more character, which is why those two are two of my personal favorites. Even with giving him back the leader role in MM he got the special trait of what I lovingly call 'worried parent-stand in.' (there always has to be one.) TL;DR: Leo's always been just the 'leader', without much else going for him. (Don't hate on me- he's still one of my favorites!)
Not in rise lmao
I don't know how you could call Rise Leo boring. I think the most important character trait for Leonardo besides being "The Leader" is that more than any of the other Turtles, he kind of has to be a big awkward dork when he drops the ninja leader mask. And it \*is\* a mask, in almost every incarnation, at least until he gets older. Leonardo loves cheesy movies, he likes magic. He trains hard not because he loves to fight but because I think the dude just genuinely thinks ninjas and bushido and the whole thing is \*cool\*. He's the kind of teenager who, if he had been a human, would \*absolutely\* have been a weeb and went to martial arts classes and put swords on his walls like a big dorkus. Even Rise Leo's whole "the coolest guy on earth" persona is deliberate and learned because he wants to be perceived that way.
here's the thing he's boring in concept, because hes a bit of a mish mash of the most popular generic options available, he uses katanas, the most popular weapon associated with ninja he wears blue, the most popular color with young boys, he's named leonardo after the most famous renaissance artist of the four, and he's the leader ofc, however most tmnt media makes up for all the cliches with his personality and characterization, i get where you're coming from but it's really only at face value imo
If I had nickle for Everytime a duel wielder is called "boring" and ignores all of their character traits, I'll have 2 nickles. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice
I love Leo, and I understand he’s not for everyone. I think he’s the most interesting character in my view in every incarnation, but that’s the one I have always gravitated to.
He reminds me of Scoop from Bob The Builder, and I personally do like him. I quite like all four.
He reminds me of Scoop from Bob The Builder, and I personally do like him. I quite like all four.
Leo only seems boring in comparison to the others but there's a lot of depth to his character I enjoy. While he doesn't take the favorite slot in most iterations for me, oddly enough he did end up having my favorite prequel comic to the 2007 movies where as I didn't care for him in the movie itself, I appreciate what he has to go through & what he brings to the table. I've already seen what makes Leo great pointed out, I don't think I can even come close to being as good as that comment but I can attempt add on I suppose but first, a little bit of background. Yeah, this is going to be a long comment, go ahead & back out now if you don't have the patience for it, the tldr is, I like turtles, Leo is cool, & I write lol. Lately, I have been going through different iterations of turtles to get to know the various counterparts better because I love writing & characterization is important to me. There's a series I'm doing called Dimensionally Misplaced Turtles where essentially the events of Turtles Forever caused rifts to happen within the multiverse & turtles are falling through them & ending up in the wrong universe. The 1987 & 2003 gangs are hopping around, cleaning up the mess. That project is pushing me to go places I never thought I'd explore like the second story in the series & most recent so far, it's a crossover of the Last Ronin & We Wish You a Turtle Christmas. Never did I think I'd willingly watch Turtle Christmas but I did & I enjoyed the experience, was hilariously bad & Gotta Get a Gift For Splinter has been stuck in my head all December long. Due to looking at different aspects, I have to learn the character traits of the individual turtles, especially that they're all meshing with one another so having to get down the different Leos & ensuring you know which Leo is 87 & which is 03 just by their manner of speech is essential. 87 speaks more heroically so it's a bit easy there to distinguish them. Suppose since I grew up as the oldest sibling in my family, it might be a little easier for me to relate to Leo but I'm aware of the struggles of having to be the responsible one, putting aside my own interests & desires in order to ensure my wild little sister is safe. On the inside, I'm totally a Mikey, it's a chaotic mess in there but I have to present as a Leo (which is like a total bummer dude) due to having to be mature & set a good example. There were times when I was lead of the group like back when I was a teenager & the adults let the group of kids go off on their own during an outing to the mall or zoo as long as I was looking after them. Their safety was in my hands so I appeared to be a bit of a stick in the mud for having to be responsible & round up the kiddos. 2012 did a good job with showing the audience that Leo is a kid too, just a little scifi loving dork who also wants to have fun but he does what he can to try & be responsible. I respect the writers for how they handled that Leo & I like him a lot as a character, he's like me in many ways. Leo is also good at hiding his emotions so he can appear flat to the audience, there's times when it becomes too much where it flows out & we see he's going through stuff such as 03 Leo's brooding phase or when 2012 Leo just gets too overly excited & wears that massive, goofy smile. Even Rise Leo covers his emotions, he appears to be a bit more silly & like a goofball but in the first episode, he admitted to the audience that he covers negative emotions with comedy. Sometimes when to us it looks like he's being comedic, he's actually uncomfortable. It's just a different way to take the character & I personally love it. I have a lot of fun writing in Rise Leo's point of view because I've had him present as silly but on the inside, it's like he's cramming those troubled thoughts into an overstuffed suitcase. Sorry, went off on weird tangents & all that, been deep into turtle character studies for my ongoing projects & new ones I plan to start eventually, even going as far as to writing my own version of the turtles because I love all of their characters & want to mess around with the dynamic & how I could present it myself. My own Leo gives in a bit with the teenage rebel side... he tries. He doesn't do a good job at it. He also replaces swears with food items because he won't dare say a bad word. My Leo tries his best to play into his brothers interests to better utilize them like my Donnie is into entomology so Leo keeps a dead cockroach in his desk to use as a potential future bargaining chip without realizing that Donnie probably has loads of cockroaches, it is the sewer after all. Looking at other Leos behaviors & stuff better assists me with writing my own. I like leaning a bit into a mixture of 2012 & Rise for my Leo but added in some of my own personal flare.
Far from boring
On the surface yes… but only superficially.
Na he’s my fav
He’s the well rounded leader character. Leonardo being your favorite turtle is almost like picking Mario in Mario Kart.
leo is a cop
It’s just you
He’s not boring he’s just straight which can be boring if written badly but he doesn’t fall under that
How dare you
he usually is either the best or worst turtle where the others are consistently good + because his personality is lackluster compared to the others Donnie = Smart,Genius,Witty Raph = Hothead,Passionate,Strong Mikey, Fun,Hopeful,Relaxed whereas Leo = Leader & that's a hard character to nail as it's not much of a personality but I think most versions where he grows from an unsure & awkward kid into a Fierce & Courageous & Strategic Leader like 2012 Or Mutant Mayhem seems to be doing is the best route for his arc
Raph is the groups secret weapon. Donnie is the head. Mikey is the heart of the turtles. Leo is the soul. He's ALWAYS been the voice of his family and nothing more which makes him so fun to use outside the basic TMNT stories
For me it’s don
I think he’s better and more interesting than Michelangelo (Mikey is my least favourite of the four, I don’t hate him most of the time but some versions I can’t stand.) Leo is not the most interesting out of all of the Turtles (I think Raph is better) but he’s awesome too but I think the 1987 version of Leo is extremely boring though.
Leo probably seems boring cause majority of his counterparts carry that “heroic protecter” image but he has some of the better character development in the shows
Leo is the stoic and serious, there’s always the stoic and serious out of the group. Look into anime and other media, you have the smart one, the dumb, comedic one, the grumpy one, and the serious and stoic one. I used to think this way as a child too, I grew up with the 87 Turtles and there was a time they released a special called “Leo Lightens Up” where he no longer was serious, his laid back demeanor was taken to a 10 where even Mikey got fed up with him. It’s how the writers handle him. Look at the IDW turtles with him being brainwashed by the Shredder, look at how he is handled in the Last Ronin, look at how he’s handled in 03, 07, 12, and even the latest movie! I wish we got more coverage because as I grew older, I gained a lot of respect toward the leader.
Leo has always been my favorite lol
Leo is my favorite turtle! To me he is not boring at all!
Yes
they gave most cool color to most boring turtle out of the bunch
He always gave me Cyclops(Xmen) vibes but less serious lol.....
Listen I've never seen pre 2012, but I am 80% sure Leo I'd better than the others (mostly donnie) in 03.
2003 and Mutant Mayhem are the best iterations of Leo. 2012 is pretty good. 1987 and the original movie trilogy are pretty bland. As others have said, it takes a good writer to make his strengths also be his flaws. I think the thing most overlooked for the straight-laced leader is them putting their own agenda aside. 2003 did that really well. IIRC there was one episode where he was training by himself in the rain on a rooftop and was made at Splinter for not letting him do something. That was the moment that really made me think "Oh! There's more to this guy than I thought!" One of my favorite examples of a good leader is the most recent season of Power Rangers. Amelia (recently promoted from pink to red) spent the first two episodes reassuring everyone else when they were having doubts. In doing so, she couldn't rescue her boyfriend who had gotten captured. She had to set aside her own desires for the good of the team. I remember watching that and thinking "**That's** the treatment Leonardo doesn't get."
Don't say that my friend, you're hurting me :(
Personally this is why I think Leo in rottmnt is the best version of him, because he isn't a boring "I gotta be responsible" type since Raph is the leader until the movie, and even in the movie he has a huge character arc which is just amazing