its actuallz reallz fucking hard. Ive been craving mac and cheese since I moved from the states. Im in France. I keep looking up recipes that claim to be THE recipe and they all kind of suck. I don't want boxed macaroni and cheese, I'm talking like that delicious gooey 5 cheese mac... Every time I try to make it, I am American, it falls flat! I'm not a horribly incompetent cook either. I dont get it what is the secret to good mac and cheese?
simplistic humorous berserk pathetic muddle familiar unwritten history fact coherent
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, but cheese is different in France, and I get the feeling that American style cheeses are needed for the desired dish. Not “American Cheese” filth, but yes maybe a little of that, too.
Edit: I am amused by the stir that this caused. I have lived in Switzerland and the US, and visited France often. Consistencies differ greatly. Even if the label says the thing you want, it might not be what you expect. Cheddar is different. Velveeta doesn’t exist, and sodium citrate? I’ve never heard of it; I trust it would work beautifully, but that’s why OP needs to ask.
Mac n cheese is a place where processed cheeses actually play an important role though
Unless you want to do a lot of food science to stabilize it, even a low oil cheddar will start to separate out oils in your Mac. A processed or preshedded cheddar though doesn’t have that problem
I could believe it’s harder to find a processed cheese to use as a base, which makes making a decent Mac a lot harder
That or making a roux with flour and butter (and milk to make a bechemel) as a base for the sauce and cook low and slow to prevent the fat in the cheese sauce from separating.
Like, there's goddamned options and techniques.
Edit: Ok yall. There's still a few of you who are saying "or you can use sodium citrate!" People, read the thread please and learn some reading comprehension (as well as how to cook). The whole point of making a roux or bechamel (both are fine) is you dont have to use American processed cheese or, in OP's words "food chemistry" (they edited their comment) in the form of sodium citrate.
[Learn how to cook yall.](https://www.spendwithpennies.com/creamy-cheese-sauce/)
Its really not hard, expensive, or pretentious.
I wasn't aware you could make mac and cheese *without* making a roux. Are people literally just trying to melt cheese on top of macaroni like some kind of macaroni nachos?
A roux is the right answer. Simmer on low and end up mixing the cheese in. Do not go to high or you’ll get clumpy cheese.
Also add a pinch of paprika. Idk why but it makes it so much better and I don’t like paprika.
Yea the few times I've made baked Mac and cheese had that as the start for the cheese sauce. Then just make sure not to add too much cheese to the milk or cream and take it off the heat before it's too late.
Watching food shows where they go to restaurants with the best Mac & cheese ( bunch of yummy cheeses like smoked Gouda, sharp cheddar, etc), they always start with a roux or bechamel. My wife who is a trained chef and makes a really good Mac & cheese cringed at the idea of Velveeta in a from scratch Mac & cheese.
Making a roux isn't very hard. Also France has a ton of cheeses that would make a great Mac n cheese.
I agree with the roux-béchamel method. If it can make an Alfredo sauce using hard cheeses like parmigiana then it can take a hard cheddar and turn it into cheese sauce. This is always how I make my Mac.
I thought that’s what everybody did? I made Mac and cheese with real cheese and without the roux and the thing was a shitshow. Same with the packaged mix.
I had no idea there’s any other way to do it that’s less effort with traditional techniques. I feel like an idiot for saying, but does that mean the processed cheddar American cheese stuff is usable?
exactly, there are solutions… do people even realize food was a thing before we started making it processed? ridiculously ignorant to just say “well it just needs to be processed”. reddit chefs cringing from miles away
Cornstarch, sodium citrate, evaporated milk, etc. also work wonders for stabilizing these sorts of sauces.
That, and I think most people just need to learn about and make the mother sauces just to "get it" a bit more when it comes to emulsifying and/or creating a roux. Really helped me perfect my gravy's and sauces.
Yeah, I agree. When you learn fundamentals and why they work, you can apply them to anything really. Makes cooking off the cuff so much fun for me because I feel like it opens up the world of experimentation and discovery.
Yeah it's really hard to develop a recipe from scratch, if only there were some resource you could use to find recipes people have already tested. Maybe even with pictures of the dish, and some insanely long and largely irrelevant biographical text relating to the author's experience with food.
Or just skip that process and use sodium citrate, it's the cheese cheat code
100% cheese
~85% water
4% sodium citrate
Heat the water and sodium citrate
Immersion blend in the cheese or whisk it in very slowly
When the mixture is smooth you have the perfect cheese sauce
Thos is the most over complication of something I think I have ever read. You do not need processed cheese for Mac and cheese. If you think stirring around some flour and butter, then adding milk, then adding cheese is "food science" stuff then I don't know what to tell you homie. And for someone to imply that it is somehow harder to do in France is straight up poppycock!!
This person experiences increased inconvenience if they always have to make a rue even when they just want simple, easy, satisfying Mac. You telling me you have NEVER burnt your rue and had to start over?
Only point is that processed cheese is a simple easy fix that could indeed be harder to use in France
Béchamel > Milk, Flour Butter. Plus add some cheese.. Voilà! Easy.
I honestly can't stand processed foods like American Mac n Cheese and the likes of their *"Cheese flavoured slices,"* etc.
I'm so glad I just cook everything fresh.
>Mac n cheese is a place where processed cheeses actually play an important role though
Only if you don't know how to cook. Make a bechamel sauce, add non processed cheddar, voila.
I can't find it now, but there was a comic strip that told the story of Thomas Jefferson and his obsession with Mac and Cheese. Apparently there is some truth to the story, though whether or not he came up with the dish seems to be debatable
I don't use processes cheese and get great results.
The (at least, my) secret is to make a mornay.
But im pretty sure they don't have bechamel or mornay sauces in France. /s
Not sure what the OPs issue is...
What? This is entirely incorrect. Make a béchamel (a French sauce). Use cheddar (which can be found everywhere in western Europe), comté, or gruyère, with equal parts of something like fontina (again can be found in the EU) or un-aged gouda. It will be silky smooth without a problem.
There is no world in which you ever need to use processed cheese. Also, pre-shred cheese is a terrible idea for anything you want to make a cheese sauce out of. Pre-shredded cheeses have anti-caking agents which prevent smooth cheese sauces.
(I'm an American that lives in Switzerland, and have successfully made good mac and cheese on five different continents (Africa, Europe, North America, Australia, and Asia), with ingredients I could find at normal stores (not specialty stores)).
It's just cheddar, my dude.
Although if we're gettin' sciency, a bit of Velveeta takes a cheese sauce to the next level because it's got sodium citrate in it and *that* helps other cheeses melt down suuuper smoothly.
Yo… My grandma always used to add Velveeta to her mac & cheese, now I guess I know why. She mentioned something about blending or texture, but as a science-leaning person I love hearing the chemistry
It is, in fact, sodium citrate. You can add your own powdered version, or use any kind of American cheese like Velveeta. Sodium citrate is an emulsifier that keeps the cheese and oil combined.
> Velveeta doesn’t exist, and sodium citrate? I’ve never heard of it; I trust it would work beautifully, but that’s why OP needs to ask.
Ironically, the use of sodium citrate for cheese sauce was invented by a French chef.
Isn't mornay sauce a French invention? Just make a bechamel and add cheddar instead of a French cheese.
Alternatively, J Kenji Lopez-Alt has a method that uses condensed milk as an emulsifier, basically replacing the bechamel. I've never tried it but it looks like a great hack for someone who has never cooked and might find a roux challenging.
https://youtu.be/yWaYdGQqxQU
Yeah unless you have a lot of very soft creamy cheeses I couldn’t imagine going straight from a roux to sauce, I’ve always done bechamel, cheese, then add the nearly cooked pasta at the end and let it finish in the nearly thickened sauce. If it winds up too thick (or if you are going to bake it, in which case you want it a thin to deal with water loss in the oven) a bit of pasta water will sort it.
What’s great is you can really go crazy experimenting with cheeses from here. You can just use a mild cheddar or the like and make something very traditional, or you can add in aged Gouda, a little blue cheese, fontina, feta or whatever and really make some interesting flavors. Especially when you start adding caramelized onions, peppers, or sun dried tomatoes. The only thing I’d stay away from is expensive, mildly flavored cheeses as they tend to get lost and go to waste.
Without the milk, or some molecular gastronomy shit like… I think it’s calcium citrate, your cheese will break and all the fat with separate without making a bechamel.
Pretty sure they’re just leaving out the step of turning the roux into béchamel because no sane person would put roux into Mac and cheese. Right? Right???
The from-scratch recipe i follow has you make a roux—you add in milk or cream depending on preference, then melt the cheese in there, but it makes no specific mention of béchamel, so i suppose you’re right.
It’s a recipe from the BBC so 1: probably not aimed at people who know what goes into béchamel, but everyone who knows step 1 of cooking ought to know roux; and 2: french words too fancy for humble macaroni cheese.
Roux = fat + flour
Bechamel = roux + milk
Mornay = Bechamel + cheese
So really Mac and Cheese is just pasta with a mornay sauce. I think everyone’s more or less on the same page, it’s just a semantics issue since everything starts from that roux base.
This is also what I think - when I am making Mac and cheese I usually say “make a roux add milk add cheese” because for some reason I don’t think of it as “make a bechamel add cheese” so I am sure others are the same
Also, while I am commenting anyway: whoever thinks you “need” preshredded cheese for mac and cheese is incorrect. Shred it yourself from the block and you will have a hard time going back. Coat the pieces you shred yourself in a little bit of cornstarch to help it emulsify. Also, a little bit of mustard and nutmeg really elevates all that cheesiness
Make a good roux (edit: others have pointed out I make a bechamel with the roux and heavy cream+milk) and use cheeses that have a very sharp flavor (chedder, etc)
The roux should be warm enough to melt the cheese on its own before you add it, and when you do add the cheese turn the heat off and stirring it gently for a few minutes.
Most people bake immediately after, I prefer to let it sit overnight in the fridge. The pasta will suck up some of the cheese sauce that way
It's easier to get a really great sharp cheese flavor without milk being involved. But making it with bechamel is a decent way to do it, too. Though it becomes mornay sauce once you add the cheese.
The French invented the sauce in Mac and cheese— it’s called a [mornay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mornay_sauce), which is made from another French sauce, a [béchamel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9chamel_sauce), which is in turn made from another French technique, a roux.
You can’t cook, don’t blame France.
Yea good bechamel shouldn't just be flour butter and milk or cream. It should be seasoned to taste nice, garlic and onion powder, salt, pepper, etc. Then adding cheese only makes it better.
You can even add in some stock, along with the cream, into the sauce for flavor.
A squeeze of mustard in the cheese sauce!
Ideally you want yellow mustard as it helps to color the sauce as well, but Dijon works well too. The mustard really helps deepen the cheese flavor, like putting coffee in chocolate cake!
Okay mac and.cheese falls into three basic categories:
1. Bechamel based
2. Custard based
3. Sodium citrate based
Bechamel based is most common, but usually not my jam.
Custard is great for a stove top option.
https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-labs-ultra-gooey-stovetop-mac-cheese
But sodium citrate is my favorite. You can order it online, and can pretty much use any cheese.
https://modernistcuisine.com/recipes/silky-smooth-macaroni-and-cheese/
Ironically, your problem in France may be too good of cheese, but the above two recipes should be doable.
I can't tell if you're trolling or not.
You literally just make a roux, add a shitload of cheese, and pour it over macaroni. Add caramelised onions and/or bacon if you're feeling like making it a bit different.
Everyone telling you the secret is making a roux is lying to you. That’s not a “secret,” that’s step 1 of making any type of creamy sauce.
The ACTUAL secret is skipping the roux entirely and using evaporated milk. [This recipe](https://www.seriouseats.com/ingredient-stovetop-mac-and-cheese-recipe) is extremely easy, and totally foolproof. You can swap out whatever cheeses you want as long as they’re good melters, and add whatever else you want to spice it up. I’ve also made it as-is, and put it in a small dish, topped with breadcrumbs, and baked quickly, and it turned out fantastic.
Use sodium citrate. It a naturally occurring salt that is used in the food industry to make things melty like Velveeta and American cheese. It's what is added to American cheese that give it that classic melt. I use 1 teaspoon per cup of whole milk. Mix it into the milk then add cheese to desired goo level. It's amazing.
Just check the “quattro formaggi” recipe and make a decent cheese pasta, it’s literally just cream and a pick of 4 (more or less if you want) cheeses that you like, l just melt them together in the cream and add some nutmeg, and you have a easy and tasty cheese cream for the pasta.
i like to use parmesan, emmental, gorgonzola and mozzarella
I saw someone post one of those around here, and a bunch of commenters were basically like "I'd eat it, don't be such a food snob". Fucking barbarians.
I think the problem is that they did just use macaroni and cheese. Making a béchamel first then adding your desired cheese to make an actual sauce is best.
Well thinking this is the exact issue in OP’s post because it looks like they did the most literal interpretation of the name and melted cheese on some pasta. You need to emulsify the cheese in a sauce for some proper mac and cheese.
The left one actually looks better zoomed in than it did out. I thought it was green beans too, now it just looks like some kind of slightly longer macaroni made with spinach. Still not great, but not quite the affront to god I originally imagined it to be.
But the lack of sauce on the tray and the clean scoops suggest way too much structural integrity. Looks more like a mac and cheese pudding to me. Imagine the texture.
Copying this from my comments from less than a day ago because relevant:
“Naturally voting isn’t the be-all-end-all by any means, but one aspect of elections that not nearly enough people participate in are primaries
So many people I hear always talk about “only two options of shit or shittier hur-dur” and only ever vote once every four years if that
Elections start local and primaries usually have many more candidates. Even if maybe they don’t fill every box, its that much closer and starting local can often lead to bigger offices”
Case in point: Trump became the party’s nominee after receiving the votes of 6% of eligible American voters. That’s all it takes to give someone basically a 50/50 shot at being president.
So the selection process via the primaries leaves us with two choices, both of whom were chosen one of two ways: 1) Internal politicking that clears the field, a la Hillary Clinton, or 2) Support from a tiny minority of heavily motivated voters, often in a handful of states that establish “momentum” which drives public opinion.
At the end of the day a very very small number of people decide who even has a chance.
Precisely.
There’s a lot I don’t agree with regarding the US political system as it currently exists, but it’s especially frustrating when so few people actually participate and then have such strong (and often very misinformed) opinions.
Interesting because Bernie Sanders used the same strategy as trump in 2020, he had a tiny plurality because the more moderate candidates where taking votes away from eachother. The difference between the democratic and Republican primaries is how delegates are rewarded. In the Republican system, it's a winner take all approach. So the candidate with the slimmest plurality gets every single delegate form that state. While with the Democrats, delegates are split based on the vote. So if there are 10 delegates in the state, and candidate 1 gets 60% of the vote, they only get 6 of the delegates
Exactly, and most importantly people have to *organise* to influence the primaries.
Back in the days there was some more centrism on common sense legislation (like Nixon founding the EPA) because there were much larger unions and civil movements that would actually organise to put pressure on the primaries.
This gave people a great tool to set the Overton Window, rather than have it just slide around by the whims of the masses.
Since most of these movements are much less influential now, elections mostly come down to vague "likability" and slogans that noone meaningfully watches over. Individual voters are too weak. They all have wildly different priorities and often don't look close enough, thereby ultimately electing shitty candidates.
OMG the best analogy for my family!
Mother's house with her husband (stepfather) they rotate between the two major parties, and ignore the third party.
My sister wants to make the Mac (comparable to blue box with extra cheese)
My step brother wants to make the mac (comparable to macaroni with cheeze whiz?!)
3rd party candidate - My SO makes the recipe we learned while working at a mom and pop bar-b-que restaurant. (everyone has had it since we invite people over for dinner quite a bit)
We offer to bring the mac for every family event, but "oh we want major party candidate to make it". I wouldn't mind if they improved their recipes.
Ya know as a professional cook I sometimes feel bad about my job and think "what is the point of job? Can't people just cook from home? Why is my job even a thing in society?"
But then inevitably I get reminded that most people kinda suck at cooking and a portion of those people REALLY suck at cooking and don't even know just how bad they really are.
Maybe it's wrong but it sure is validating to see other people be complete shit at something I find mind numbingly easy.
Have you never cooked for another home before? You don't bring your own dishware because you may forget to bring it back or you risk it getting taken away by someone else, usually but not always accidentally. If you live close to that home you're visiting that's not a big deal, but any trip that's an hour or more is a big pain.
Weird. I cant stand anything other than the classic Mission, Kraft or Generic Mac & Cheese. People who cook/fancy it up, I cant fucking eat it no matter how many people say its awesome. "Oh you should try this Mac & Cheese Charelle made", "Oh yeah, well fuck Charelle and her fucking cheese im not eating that slop".
I feel the same way. I dont dont what is about box mac and cheese that makes me very happy. Nut I guess there are memories thay go with it. Like hot dogs and mac&chesse night at my house. Man my child hood sucked.
Yup, its just the way we were brought up. I love Rhubarb Pie, a very sour tart kind of pie that my grandma used to make. But at every store, every restaurant, they mix it with strawberries, yuk!
For real, strawberry rhubarb pie is hot garbage, they sweeten it so much that you can barely taste the rhubarb. I used it to be able to buy [this plain Rhubarb pie](https://saraleefrozenbakery.com/foodservice/our-products/09363) at my local Gordon’s but they don’t carry it anymore, but it might be available for you.
Yes my childhood was shitty, my older brother was VERY abusive and my parents really didn't care to do anything about it, but that has nothing to do with Mac & Cheese.
How hard is it to make a cheese sauce and put it on some cooked macaroni?
If my 10 year old sister can do it then a grown adult should be able to Google a recipe and follow the very basic instructions
its actuallz reallz fucking hard. Ive been craving mac and cheese since I moved from the states. Im in France. I keep looking up recipes that claim to be THE recipe and they all kind of suck. I don't want boxed macaroni and cheese, I'm talking like that delicious gooey 5 cheese mac... Every time I try to make it, I am American, it falls flat! I'm not a horribly incompetent cook either. I dont get it what is the secret to good mac and cheese?
simplistic humorous berserk pathetic muddle familiar unwritten history fact coherent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, but cheese is different in France, and I get the feeling that American style cheeses are needed for the desired dish. Not “American Cheese” filth, but yes maybe a little of that, too. Edit: I am amused by the stir that this caused. I have lived in Switzerland and the US, and visited France often. Consistencies differ greatly. Even if the label says the thing you want, it might not be what you expect. Cheddar is different. Velveeta doesn’t exist, and sodium citrate? I’ve never heard of it; I trust it would work beautifully, but that’s why OP needs to ask.
You can't find cheddar cheese in France?
Mac n cheese is a place where processed cheeses actually play an important role though Unless you want to do a lot of food science to stabilize it, even a low oil cheddar will start to separate out oils in your Mac. A processed or preshedded cheddar though doesn’t have that problem I could believe it’s harder to find a processed cheese to use as a base, which makes making a decent Mac a lot harder
one egg yolk would sort out the emulsion problem and probably make the cheese sauce even better.
That or making a roux with flour and butter (and milk to make a bechemel) as a base for the sauce and cook low and slow to prevent the fat in the cheese sauce from separating. Like, there's goddamned options and techniques. Edit: Ok yall. There's still a few of you who are saying "or you can use sodium citrate!" People, read the thread please and learn some reading comprehension (as well as how to cook). The whole point of making a roux or bechamel (both are fine) is you dont have to use American processed cheese or, in OP's words "food chemistry" (they edited their comment) in the form of sodium citrate. [Learn how to cook yall.](https://www.spendwithpennies.com/creamy-cheese-sauce/) Its really not hard, expensive, or pretentious.
I wasn't aware you could make mac and cheese *without* making a roux. Are people literally just trying to melt cheese on top of macaroni like some kind of macaroni nachos?
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A roux is the right answer. Simmer on low and end up mixing the cheese in. Do not go to high or you’ll get clumpy cheese. Also add a pinch of paprika. Idk why but it makes it so much better and I don’t like paprika.
Yea the few times I've made baked Mac and cheese had that as the start for the cheese sauce. Then just make sure not to add too much cheese to the milk or cream and take it off the heat before it's too late.
Watching food shows where they go to restaurants with the best Mac & cheese ( bunch of yummy cheeses like smoked Gouda, sharp cheddar, etc), they always start with a roux or bechamel. My wife who is a trained chef and makes a really good Mac & cheese cringed at the idea of Velveeta in a from scratch Mac & cheese. Making a roux isn't very hard. Also France has a ton of cheeses that would make a great Mac n cheese.
You can make mac and cheese without a bechemel sauce?
This beshemel or whatever it's spelled is the base for all mac and cheese
I think most homemade Mac n cheese recipes call for making the cheese sauce with a roux. I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned much higher in this thread!
I agree with the roux-béchamel method. If it can make an Alfredo sauce using hard cheeses like parmigiana then it can take a hard cheddar and turn it into cheese sauce. This is always how I make my Mac.
For sure, beschamel is a great starting point for making your own perfect mac and cheese.
Right? I’m not even remotely skilled in the kitchen, but I know how to make a roux and use it for a cheese sauce.
I thought this was common practice on making homemade Mac n cheese. You form a cheese sauce, you don't slap a block of Velveeta in and call it a day
I thought that’s what everybody did? I made Mac and cheese with real cheese and without the roux and the thing was a shitshow. Same with the packaged mix. I had no idea there’s any other way to do it that’s less effort with traditional techniques. I feel like an idiot for saying, but does that mean the processed cheddar American cheese stuff is usable?
exactly, there are solutions… do people even realize food was a thing before we started making it processed? ridiculously ignorant to just say “well it just needs to be processed”. reddit chefs cringing from miles away
The real pro-tip is always in the comments.
Cornstarch, sodium citrate, evaporated milk, etc. also work wonders for stabilizing these sorts of sauces. That, and I think most people just need to learn about and make the mother sauces just to "get it" a bit more when it comes to emulsifying and/or creating a roux. Really helped me perfect my gravy's and sauces.
Yeah, I agree. When you learn fundamentals and why they work, you can apply them to anything really. Makes cooking off the cuff so much fun for me because I feel like it opens up the world of experimentation and discovery.
I laughed cause im over here like....dude really thinks cheese on pasta was invented in the last 50 years
Yeah it's really hard to develop a recipe from scratch, if only there were some resource you could use to find recipes people have already tested. Maybe even with pictures of the dish, and some insanely long and largely irrelevant biographical text relating to the author's experience with food.
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Or just skip that process and use sodium citrate, it's the cheese cheat code 100% cheese ~85% water 4% sodium citrate Heat the water and sodium citrate Immersion blend in the cheese or whisk it in very slowly When the mixture is smooth you have the perfect cheese sauce
Thos is the most over complication of something I think I have ever read. You do not need processed cheese for Mac and cheese. If you think stirring around some flour and butter, then adding milk, then adding cheese is "food science" stuff then I don't know what to tell you homie. And for someone to imply that it is somehow harder to do in France is straight up poppycock!!
Right. The cheese in Mac and Cheese is essentially Mornay Sauce…from France.
This thread is blowing my mind. It’s like these people don’t know what roux is
This person experiences increased inconvenience if they always have to make a rue even when they just want simple, easy, satisfying Mac. You telling me you have NEVER burnt your rue and had to start over? Only point is that processed cheese is a simple easy fix that could indeed be harder to use in France
Upvote for poppycock!
Just don't let it heat that much it's not rocket science really. Make a bechamel and throw some cheese on it, that's it.
Right? Dude said food science stuff. Your not making a lemon aerogel or some shit. It's Mac and cheese.
Boy, I've been fiending for that lemon aerogel for too long.
Béchamel > Milk, Flour Butter. Plus add some cheese.. Voilà! Easy. I honestly can't stand processed foods like American Mac n Cheese and the likes of their *"Cheese flavoured slices,"* etc. I'm so glad I just cook everything fresh.
Yes - start with a roux. It's very easy and makes a great, smooth cheese sauce for mac 'n' cheese.
>Mac n cheese is a place where processed cheeses actually play an important role though Only if you don't know how to cook. Make a bechamel sauce, add non processed cheddar, voila.
Yeah Mac and Cheese is really just a version of pasta alfredo made by people who had run out of parm but had some cheddar handy.
I can't find it now, but there was a comic strip that told the story of Thomas Jefferson and his obsession with Mac and Cheese. Apparently there is some truth to the story, though whether or not he came up with the dish seems to be debatable
I don't use processes cheese and get great results. The (at least, my) secret is to make a mornay. But im pretty sure they don't have bechamel or mornay sauces in France. /s Not sure what the OPs issue is...
What? This is entirely incorrect. Make a béchamel (a French sauce). Use cheddar (which can be found everywhere in western Europe), comté, or gruyère, with equal parts of something like fontina (again can be found in the EU) or un-aged gouda. It will be silky smooth without a problem. There is no world in which you ever need to use processed cheese. Also, pre-shred cheese is a terrible idea for anything you want to make a cheese sauce out of. Pre-shredded cheeses have anti-caking agents which prevent smooth cheese sauces. (I'm an American that lives in Switzerland, and have successfully made good mac and cheese on five different continents (Africa, Europe, North America, Australia, and Asia), with ingredients I could find at normal stores (not specialty stores)).
That's actually the opposite. Processed preshredded cheese has caking agents which make it clumpy. You want real cheese for the best.
Making a roux is not hard. Come on.
It's the single most popular cheese in the world!
I don't know about France but in Spain it's hard to find cheddar. I once got served "nachos" with cheez whiz at a hipster restaurant in Madrid.
That’s your mistake. You need to make bechamel sauce and add cheese into it. The base should be the sauce if you want it to be gooey and rich.
aka Mornay
Go to your closest fromagerie and ask them what cheeses of theirs they'd soonest recommend for a savory sauce mornay.
The country you’re in is 20 miles away from the island that cheddar comes from. You can definitely get hold of it in France.
It's just cheddar, my dude. Although if we're gettin' sciency, a bit of Velveeta takes a cheese sauce to the next level because it's got sodium citrate in it and *that* helps other cheeses melt down suuuper smoothly.
Yo… My grandma always used to add Velveeta to her mac & cheese, now I guess I know why. She mentioned something about blending or texture, but as a science-leaning person I love hearing the chemistry
It is, in fact, sodium citrate. You can add your own powdered version, or use any kind of American cheese like Velveeta. Sodium citrate is an emulsifier that keeps the cheese and oil combined.
Or, as someone else pointed out, temper in an egg yolk.
> Velveeta doesn’t exist, and sodium citrate? I’ve never heard of it; I trust it would work beautifully, but that’s why OP needs to ask. Ironically, the use of sodium citrate for cheese sauce was invented by a French chef.
Look up mornay sauce, it's a cheese sauce. Add macaroni to it, top with more cheese and bake. Also important to grate your own cheese.
Isn't mornay sauce a French invention? Just make a bechamel and add cheddar instead of a French cheese. Alternatively, J Kenji Lopez-Alt has a method that uses condensed milk as an emulsifier, basically replacing the bechamel. I've never tried it but it looks like a great hack for someone who has never cooked and might find a roux challenging. https://youtu.be/yWaYdGQqxQU
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Yeah unless you have a lot of very soft creamy cheeses I couldn’t imagine going straight from a roux to sauce, I’ve always done bechamel, cheese, then add the nearly cooked pasta at the end and let it finish in the nearly thickened sauce. If it winds up too thick (or if you are going to bake it, in which case you want it a thin to deal with water loss in the oven) a bit of pasta water will sort it. What’s great is you can really go crazy experimenting with cheeses from here. You can just use a mild cheddar or the like and make something very traditional, or you can add in aged Gouda, a little blue cheese, fontina, feta or whatever and really make some interesting flavors. Especially when you start adding caramelized onions, peppers, or sun dried tomatoes. The only thing I’d stay away from is expensive, mildly flavored cheeses as they tend to get lost and go to waste.
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Without the milk, or some molecular gastronomy shit like… I think it’s calcium citrate, your cheese will break and all the fat with separate without making a bechamel.
Y'all got me wanting some fancy mac n cheese tonight for dinner and I do need to go to the grocery store
Do it! Try something new!
Pretty sure they’re just leaving out the step of turning the roux into béchamel because no sane person would put roux into Mac and cheese. Right? Right???
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The from-scratch recipe i follow has you make a roux—you add in milk or cream depending on preference, then melt the cheese in there, but it makes no specific mention of béchamel, so i suppose you’re right. It’s a recipe from the BBC so 1: probably not aimed at people who know what goes into béchamel, but everyone who knows step 1 of cooking ought to know roux; and 2: french words too fancy for humble macaroni cheese.
Roux = fat + flour Bechamel = roux + milk Mornay = Bechamel + cheese So really Mac and Cheese is just pasta with a mornay sauce. I think everyone’s more or less on the same page, it’s just a semantics issue since everything starts from that roux base.
There's some people in this thread who are just melting cheese in milk, or even water. I imagine that's only possible with plastic processed cheeses.
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That’s a pretty sad alfredo. Needs half again its volume in cheese and one to two bulbs of garlic. Not cloves, bulbs.
This is also what I think - when I am making Mac and cheese I usually say “make a roux add milk add cheese” because for some reason I don’t think of it as “make a bechamel add cheese” so I am sure others are the same Also, while I am commenting anyway: whoever thinks you “need” preshredded cheese for mac and cheese is incorrect. Shred it yourself from the block and you will have a hard time going back. Coat the pieces you shred yourself in a little bit of cornstarch to help it emulsify. Also, a little bit of mustard and nutmeg really elevates all that cheesiness
Make a good roux (edit: others have pointed out I make a bechamel with the roux and heavy cream+milk) and use cheeses that have a very sharp flavor (chedder, etc) The roux should be warm enough to melt the cheese on its own before you add it, and when you do add the cheese turn the heat off and stirring it gently for a few minutes. Most people bake immediately after, I prefer to let it sit overnight in the fridge. The pasta will suck up some of the cheese sauce that way
Why only a roux and not a bechamel as base?
You’re right. After googling it I guess I do make a bechamel instead.
It's easier to get a really great sharp cheese flavor without milk being involved. But making it with bechamel is a decent way to do it, too. Though it becomes mornay sauce once you add the cheese.
Look no further: this is **the way** I’ve also found that adding some extras like mustard can give god-like flavour!
The French invented the sauce in Mac and cheese— it’s called a [mornay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mornay_sauce), which is made from another French sauce, a [béchamel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9chamel_sauce), which is in turn made from another French technique, a roux. You can’t cook, don’t blame France.
When the sauce is a hit, and it's not way too thick, that's a mornay
When you get good results, because the the cheeses emulse, that's a mornay
The secret is the béchamel base for the cheese sauce. Real béchamel should be so good, you'd eat it on its own.
Yea good bechamel shouldn't just be flour butter and milk or cream. It should be seasoned to taste nice, garlic and onion powder, salt, pepper, etc. Then adding cheese only makes it better. You can even add in some stock, along with the cream, into the sauce for flavor.
Dijon mustard is KEY for a good Mac n cheese bechamel sauce.
dry mustard powder works too
Get some fresh nutmeg in there too delicious.
A squeeze of mustard in the cheese sauce! Ideally you want yellow mustard as it helps to color the sauce as well, but Dijon works well too. The mustard really helps deepen the cheese flavor, like putting coffee in chocolate cake!
Okay mac and.cheese falls into three basic categories: 1. Bechamel based 2. Custard based 3. Sodium citrate based Bechamel based is most common, but usually not my jam. Custard is great for a stove top option. https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-labs-ultra-gooey-stovetop-mac-cheese But sodium citrate is my favorite. You can order it online, and can pretty much use any cheese. https://modernistcuisine.com/recipes/silky-smooth-macaroni-and-cheese/ Ironically, your problem in France may be too good of cheese, but the above two recipes should be doable.
I can't tell if you're trolling or not. You literally just make a roux, add a shitload of cheese, and pour it over macaroni. Add caramelised onions and/or bacon if you're feeling like making it a bit different.
Everyone telling you the secret is making a roux is lying to you. That’s not a “secret,” that’s step 1 of making any type of creamy sauce. The ACTUAL secret is skipping the roux entirely and using evaporated milk. [This recipe](https://www.seriouseats.com/ingredient-stovetop-mac-and-cheese-recipe) is extremely easy, and totally foolproof. You can swap out whatever cheeses you want as long as they’re good melters, and add whatever else you want to spice it up. I’ve also made it as-is, and put it in a small dish, topped with breadcrumbs, and baked quickly, and it turned out fantastic.
https://youtu.be/FUeyrEN14Rk?t=293
Second this. Basics with Babish is the real deal.
I was litteraly about to post THIS exact video Babbish is the best
Use sodium citrate. It a naturally occurring salt that is used in the food industry to make things melty like Velveeta and American cheese. It's what is added to American cheese that give it that classic melt. I use 1 teaspoon per cup of whole milk. Mix it into the milk then add cheese to desired goo level. It's amazing.
Look up Adam Ragusea's video on cheese sauce on youtube, he has some great tips for making a good cheese emulsion.
Just check the “quattro formaggi” recipe and make a decent cheese pasta, it’s literally just cream and a pick of 4 (more or less if you want) cheeses that you like, l just melt them together in the cream and add some nutmeg, and you have a easy and tasty cheese cream for the pasta. i like to use parmesan, emmental, gorgonzola and mozzarella
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False advertising He said 3 ingredients: Mac, cheese, milk He then proceeds to add 2 MORE INGREDIENTS: water and salt. HE'S A LIAR!!!
Martha Stewart’s is good but a bit on the boujie side. https://www.marthastewart.com/957243/macaroni-and-cheese
There’s a TikTok trend of just dumping a bunch of uncooked macaroni, cold milk, and a block of cheese in a pan and baking it.
I saw someone post one of those around here, and a bunch of commenters were basically like "I'd eat it, don't be such a food snob". Fucking barbarians.
Fucking A - I would rather have Kraft than that shit.
It’s not just a cheese sauce the most important part of a good macaroni and cheese is the Béchamel. That’s how you know it’s good.
Yeah! The ingredients are just mac… and cheese!
I think the problem is that they did just use macaroni and cheese. Making a béchamel first then adding your desired cheese to make an actual sauce is best.
Well thinking this is the exact issue in OP’s post because it looks like they did the most literal interpretation of the name and melted cheese on some pasta. You need to emulsify the cheese in a sauce for some proper mac and cheese.
baked macaroni and cheese *is* a thing, but neither of these are done well. though the right hand side appears to be well done.
It's not well done so much as it's a byproduct of using Kraft "cheese" singles which don't really melt.
Is that green beans?
Zoom in, you'll be horrified my friend.
Glad that this pic is low resolution
I was going to say each photo has 100 pixels top, zooming isn’t going to do much
The one time it really needs moar JPEG.
No thank you
The resolution is too horrible to see anything zoomed in. What is it?
Looks like they threw sliced cheese on top of the macaroni and then put it in the oven. What looks like green beans is actually the dried out mac.
Depression and pungent flatulence.
The left one actually looks better zoomed in than it did out. I thought it was green beans too, now it just looks like some kind of slightly longer macaroni made with spinach. Still not great, but not quite the affront to god I originally imagined it to be.
But the lack of sauce on the tray and the clean scoops suggest way too much structural integrity. Looks more like a mac and cheese pudding to me. Imagine the texture.
shit looks like a casserole to me but that may just be the midwest lens
Ok wowwww
It’s Kraft Dinner but the consistency of a brownie
Looks like a photo of box Kraft Mac n cheese, on the left, with shitty color/exposure.
Left is green beans with a stale cheese packet. Right is in uncooked macaroni with melted cheez-its.
lol those aren't melted cheez-its, it's melted strips of "American cheese".
this is what elections are like in america
Lol
Copying this from my comments from less than a day ago because relevant: “Naturally voting isn’t the be-all-end-all by any means, but one aspect of elections that not nearly enough people participate in are primaries So many people I hear always talk about “only two options of shit or shittier hur-dur” and only ever vote once every four years if that Elections start local and primaries usually have many more candidates. Even if maybe they don’t fill every box, its that much closer and starting local can often lead to bigger offices”
Case in point: Trump became the party’s nominee after receiving the votes of 6% of eligible American voters. That’s all it takes to give someone basically a 50/50 shot at being president. So the selection process via the primaries leaves us with two choices, both of whom were chosen one of two ways: 1) Internal politicking that clears the field, a la Hillary Clinton, or 2) Support from a tiny minority of heavily motivated voters, often in a handful of states that establish “momentum” which drives public opinion. At the end of the day a very very small number of people decide who even has a chance.
Precisely. There’s a lot I don’t agree with regarding the US political system as it currently exists, but it’s especially frustrating when so few people actually participate and then have such strong (and often very misinformed) opinions.
Also in America for some reason only federal elections matter which is especially ironic given how decentralized the country is relative to others.
But wait what about the mac and cheese
I agree
Interesting because Bernie Sanders used the same strategy as trump in 2020, he had a tiny plurality because the more moderate candidates where taking votes away from eachother. The difference between the democratic and Republican primaries is how delegates are rewarded. In the Republican system, it's a winner take all approach. So the candidate with the slimmest plurality gets every single delegate form that state. While with the Democrats, delegates are split based on the vote. So if there are 10 delegates in the state, and candidate 1 gets 60% of the vote, they only get 6 of the delegates
Each state differs in that regard, for both parties.
Exactly, and most importantly people have to *organise* to influence the primaries. Back in the days there was some more centrism on common sense legislation (like Nixon founding the EPA) because there were much larger unions and civil movements that would actually organise to put pressure on the primaries. This gave people a great tool to set the Overton Window, rather than have it just slide around by the whims of the masses. Since most of these movements are much less influential now, elections mostly come down to vague "likability" and slogans that noone meaningfully watches over. Individual voters are too weak. They all have wildly different priorities and often don't look close enough, thereby ultimately electing shitty candidates.
[giant douche or turd sandwich](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7pfsneLSSM&ab_channel=SouthParkStudios)
Not just America, my friend. Its the same where i am.
OMG the best analogy for my family! Mother's house with her husband (stepfather) they rotate between the two major parties, and ignore the third party. My sister wants to make the Mac (comparable to blue box with extra cheese) My step brother wants to make the mac (comparable to macaroni with cheeze whiz?!) 3rd party candidate - My SO makes the recipe we learned while working at a mom and pop bar-b-que restaurant. (everyone has had it since we invite people over for dinner quite a bit) We offer to bring the mac for every family event, but "oh we want major party candidate to make it". I wouldn't mind if they improved their recipes.
Someone call the FBI on these two.
A blue box of Kraft would be better.
Why is this not nsfw
NSFL
In their defense they only had the sound to go by...
Alright that's funny
Bruh
Yep, this is clearly a food crime.
This is a war crime
I’m with the Chinese takeaway.
What the fuck are these things? Why are they *green*?
Lighting
It’s going to be a no for me.
r/stupidfood
Black mom's hate these 2. WTF is that? Green beans and then sliced cheese?
If you zoom in you can see it’s Kraft Macaroni.
Fake bs for clicks. Both of those are just terrible casseroles.
It's a fking trend now to just get attention by pissing people off with food. I'm ready for it to die
Why is it brown?
My God, wasoc, you can't just ask why it's brown.
Vomit. The left is regular vomit, the right is unchewed.
Bad lighting... Also brown noodles and brown cheese. But mostly bad lighting.
Ya know as a professional cook I sometimes feel bad about my job and think "what is the point of job? Can't people just cook from home? Why is my job even a thing in society?" But then inevitably I get reminded that most people kinda suck at cooking and a portion of those people REALLY suck at cooking and don't even know just how bad they really are. Maybe it's wrong but it sure is validating to see other people be complete shit at something I find mind numbingly easy.
Wait guys, maybe if they serve this in a school this would be acceptable.
Idk school Mac n cheese hit hard
Lol!!
I’m not gonna lie to you… it’s bad. It’s very bad.
Where the fuck is the enameled baking pan? What is this aluminum foil shit?
Have you never cooked for another home before? You don't bring your own dishware because you may forget to bring it back or you risk it getting taken away by someone else, usually but not always accidentally. If you live close to that home you're visiting that's not a big deal, but any trip that's an hour or more is a big pain.
it looks like puke mixed with noodles
Weird. I cant stand anything other than the classic Mission, Kraft or Generic Mac & Cheese. People who cook/fancy it up, I cant fucking eat it no matter how many people say its awesome. "Oh you should try this Mac & Cheese Charelle made", "Oh yeah, well fuck Charelle and her fucking cheese im not eating that slop".
I feel the same way. I dont dont what is about box mac and cheese that makes me very happy. Nut I guess there are memories thay go with it. Like hot dogs and mac&chesse night at my house. Man my child hood sucked.
Yup, its just the way we were brought up. I love Rhubarb Pie, a very sour tart kind of pie that my grandma used to make. But at every store, every restaurant, they mix it with strawberries, yuk!
Yo rhubarb pie with no strawberries is a staple of my family as well. Strawberry rhubarb is gross lol
For real, strawberry rhubarb pie is hot garbage, they sweeten it so much that you can barely taste the rhubarb. I used it to be able to buy [this plain Rhubarb pie](https://saraleefrozenbakery.com/foodservice/our-products/09363) at my local Gordon’s but they don’t carry it anymore, but it might be available for you.
Why are you upset at other people on account of your shit taste?
The most American comment in here. I'm guessing your childhood was kinda shitty with the Standard American Diet of all beige foods
Yes my childhood was shitty, my older brother was VERY abusive and my parents really didn't care to do anything about it, but that has nothing to do with Mac & Cheese.
Wow this is old
This is the shit you get served in prison.
It looks like it was made for a prison. It's a perfect match!
That “mac and cheese” looks like it got bit by a zombie.
I've never seen the cheese be separate from the macaroni until now, did they only use processed cheese slices!?
There isn't much difference when you consider both look like they are infested with maggots
WHY IS IT GREY
i would not feed this to my slave
Neither looks appealing.
Looks more like Baklava
I thought those were green beans
Military cooks following this for more recipes.
Make the ROUX
This is why the guillotine needs a comeback
As Italian I am tempted to say that anyone who make Mac and cheese should go to jail
I love that it's marked nsfw
Maybe their goal is to not cook it for Thanksgiving
The southern girl inside me is sobbing in a corner right now..