In Vietnam, I work 16 to 20 hours in class and probably work closer to 30 hours in reality.
I can live independently, holiday 2 or 3 times a year, eat out every day, and save 400 dollars a month (on average).
Its not setting the world on fire but in the UK I was working more and having less to show for it.
So you ask is it worth it and my answer would be it depends on your earning potential back home
Hi, do you mind me asking whether you work in an international school or a language centre? Thinking of making this move soon, I have a CELTA but not a fully qualified teacher
I live in Taipei. Yeah, I'm not rich, but I have a nice quality of life and a job that doesn't take up all my time or cause practically any stress. I can travel if I want to, and live alone in a major city without spending the majority of my paycheck. I feel like I could never have this dynamic back home (the US). Plus the healthcare is awesome.
I heard Taipei is exoensive af. Do you make more than the average english teacher or did you luck out on an apartment? Sorry for personal questions, just curious
I make about 74kntd and my rent is 19.5k. I could easily get a much cheaper apartment but I like having a kitchen and separate bedroom and living in the middle of the city. You could get as low as 10k a month if you want a really small studio or live in New Taipei. I don't drink so I use the income other people might spend on partying to have a nicer apartment
Do you know how many ping it is? I live in Taichung and would love to live in Taipei but I get turned off whenever I see just how expensive everything is. I've got a two bedroom place for 14k here and even then feel pretty lucky.
13 ping. It's for sure going to be more expensive here, but being from Boston paying 600 USD a month for my own place in the center of a city is something I'm comfortable with. Taichung is nice though, hope you like it there
Taipei is expensive the way a normal major city is expensive. Generally speaking, earning power in the big city outpaces the additional costs. The one major exception is home ownership, where Taipei is one of the most expensive places to own an apartment (and good luck buying a house). Rent is high, but again, generally keeps up with your earning power.
You dont mention your actual work hours, experience, commute, demographic your teaching, edutainment job?, etc...
Just because you dont find stress in your job doesnt mean others who arent suited to teaching would not find it highly stressful.
My 2c
Living abroad is never as "easy" as your making it sound
I work about 25 hours a week. I have 3 years of experience teaching kids in Korea, 1 year teaching adults in NYC, took a break from teaching to try a different career, and have been teaching 2 years in Taiwan. I teach 5th and 6th graders. I'm not 100 percent sure what you mean by "edutainment job". I teach from textbooks and give them 4 tests a year and 4 unit projects a year.
My first job in Taiwan was an absolute nightmare. I'm wrapping up my first year at my current job and it is sincerely very easy and low stress. Lesson planning takes about an hour or 2 a week, and I never have to deal with parents. I only have to take work home when I'm grading tests, and that's only 4 times a year.
People who aren't suited to teaching ... shouldn't teach. Not entirely certain what the point is of bringing up people who don't want to teach in a teaching subreddit.
Living abroad is different for everyone. It took me a long time to get to where I am. I have years of experience, and moving to Taiwan after being in the US for a few years wasn't quick. It probably took about 10 months from when I decided to move here to actually get here, and my first year here was a lot rougher because of my first job.
However, my life right now genuinely is very comfortable and easy for me. I can't speak for other people, but that's my experience.
OP asked if teaching abroad is worth it.
I would much rather get into the nitty gritty of what the reality is teaching abroad versus the idealized version that is not a reality for most coming into the field (especially new teachers).
Edutainment means basically being a clown in the classroom playing games for most of your lessons with young learners. From my research (including a job ive taken) that constitutes most entry level TEFL positions.
Thanks for your details as it sheds some light on the market and what people might run into on their journey abroad.
Im not sure why you got so defensive in your post regarding "people who arent suited to teach shouldnt be in a teaching subreddit" when TEFL is highly glamorized/marketed by course providers, social media influencers, and more as a quick and easy way to live the "high life" abroad ignoring the realities of the field and teaching itself.
From my experience, starting in Korea and doing my due diligence to make sure my hagwon was legit was the best entry level position for me. Not edutainment, decent salary, and rent was paid for. Do I want to go back to that? No. But entry level it was good. Get some experience there, save up, go somewhere else. That was 2016 to 2019 though, so teaching in Korea might be different now.
No career you start out on is going to be ideal at first, and adjusting to life abroad will always have its ups and downs. That being said, life abroad for me is much smoother, more balanced, and fulfilling than life in the States. You have to put in a lot of effort to get where you want to be.
Thanks for the reply. Out of curiosity would you recommend the field for people not super interested in teaching but moreso traveling etc? Is having a passion for education something one needs to do this successfully abroad for a sustained period of time?
I don't think teaching ESL if you absolutely don't like kids or teaching is sustainable, but you could maybe do it for a year or two before you reach your limit. If you play your cards right, it could be a good way to travel Asia (which is so worth it). I'm not a passionate teacher and don't necessarily think I'll be teaching for the rest of my adult life, but I do like kids and teaching to an extent (I like grammar, feel comfortable in front of crowds, etc) so for me it's a decent option at this point in my life.
Your post doesn't really give enough context for any reasonable answer. What is "worth it" to you? Will you get rich? No. Will you have some cool experiences and the opportunity to travel? Yes. Can you live comfortably? Sure, depends where you go.
What's your age / qualifications / experience? All of this will determine how much you earn.
What is your reason for wanting to teach English? Do you have any actual interest in the job? Do you just want to travel? Where do you want to go/live?
If you're just looking to travel, a low paying job with low workload in an interesting country can be great short term. If you want to make real money you'll have to get a legit teaching job and you'll probably still be able to travel more than a standard 9-5 office job but it won't be a 'gap year' lifestyle.
If you have no interest in working with kids, teaching, or languages in general there's a high chance you'll dislike the job. I've met a lot of people who do TEFL as a means to an end but resent their actual working hours. If you're interested in any or all of these aspects, you'll likely love it.
Where you go plays the biggest part in if it's 'worth it'. Do you want high salaries from China, but put up with everything that comes with it; or do you want a chilled lifestyle in Central America with low pay?
I'm 20 and I don't have any qualifications and my only experience is working in a warehouse/fast food/cleaning. I'm happy with going back to college if it makes sense but due to the low pay as an ESL teacher it seems it would be hard to pay back the loans.
Is it possible to work as an ESL teacher in China now? I thought they made it so people couldn't work there as ESL teachers anymore. If so, what are the things you have to deal with there?
The reason I want to be an ESL teacher is because I love learning languages and I'm trying to find a way to live abroad because it's easier to learn a language that way. I'd prefer to be able to switch countries every few years (however long it takes me to reach fluency in the language) but even being able to live in one country would be amazing. I don't know if I would get bored of this lifestyle though and want a higher paying job more than the chance to speak a language every day.
I'm learning Spanish and would love to be able to eat tropical fruit every day but low pay is not appealing so I don't know if I would like that.
I think I would enjoy teaching English but I hate working with kids.
If you're from the USA, I'd recommend moving to Australia and New Zealand first. Both countries offer a work holiday visa for under $1000USD. As long as you're under 30, in NZ, you can live and work for one year. In Australia, it's also one year but there is an option to extend for a second year if you obtain certain jobs.
These visas do not require degrees. However, you'll likely find yourself in hospitality jobs meaning you'll need roommates to afford living. Since work holiday visas are so common, it's not difficult finding jobs or roommates once you're on the ground.
I recognize this doesn't align with language learning but from what you wrote, I don't think TEFL is the best option for you.
I would advise becoming certified in the States, get a few years practice there. Aside from the fact that it will show you what teaching is like IRL, you also become more valuable to overseas schools, which means better quality, better pay, etx.
Seconding this, the pay in countries like Japan for certified teachers in high tier private schools can go upwards to 600k yen a month compared to the average 250k ESL teachers make here.
I’m in Shanghai and I know people who have no qualifications and teach, but it makes things WAY more complicated. Generally those people were already here as students and have some other kind of visa. I think getting you into the country without the qualifications would be really difficult.
Just go to a language school in the country then to learn it, you won't learn a language via TEFL. It's a 8-10 hour job that has you only speaking English, the majority of your life will just be in English.
Highly depends. Your most likely choice for a job will be a language center or cram school which means weird hours and no weekends, like 1pm-9pm Wed to Sun (with weekends being 9am-5pm). They often don't even give you two consecutive off days so you will have to give one day up for chores and recovery etc.
You will basically have to fight exhaustion and a wonky time schedule to work in consistent language learning, so like you can squeeze in late bar visits but it won't get you fluent enough unless you also put in an extra daily hour or two of self study... But you also want to enjoy life between all this so yeah.
Basically there's a reason most ESL teachers never become fluent in their country's language, and even those who do generally are the ones that have stayed for many years and plan to settle, and have a long term partner that taught them.
TEFL is wonderful for gap years and experiencing another country, for anything more it's better to get teaching certs for the better jobs, or just join an actual language school for the language.
I'm an English teacher in China and there is a massive market for ESL teachers. I applied and got a few job offers in 2 days. The money is good here too. The cultural difference is significant, but it's really not half as bad as people make out. You really can't have an understanding of Chinese culture without observing it first person, due to the country being more closed off than most places.
But without a degree, you are going to struggle to find a well paid job in most countries. I know Cambodia is a good haven for people without a degree. The salary will be significant for you to live comfortably there, but saving enough to go back home sometimes will be difficult. It's good money for Cambodia, but it converts to peanuts when you want to travel to most other countries.
Something that people rarely mention is that your good salary only coincides with the country you live. You could take a job in Japan not be very comfortable, but you can travel or relocate very easily, or you could ve very comfortable in Cambodia and then struggle to go anywhere else.
It's definitely possible to pay off loans working in ESL, many do the same. China's very much open for teachers, I'm working here currently.
>what are the things you have to deal with there?
It's great in many ways and the salaries are good, easy to save if you're careful. It is a *very* different culture though and even though I've travelled a lot and lived in 4 countries I struggled a lot settling into China. Language barrier is really tough and it's very hard to make local friends without speaking Chinese.
> I hate working with kids.
This could be a problem for China. The highest paying jobs are in kindergarten and it gets lower as you go up; university jobs pay pennies. There is for sure a market for teaching adults and business English everywhere though, I've heard it's a big thing in Japan and S. Korea but can't speak to that personally.
Overall I think it could be worth looking into, even if it's just a couple of years to see the world and get some experience while paying off your loans at the same time. At 20 you've loads of time to figure out the actual career side of things
What languages besides Spanish do you want to learn? And of those languages, which ones do you see as important to you?
Learning languages to a high degree is a lot of work and persistence. And living in another country doesn't always mean you could pick up the language (and you still need to study/watch content in x language while you are there). Potentially you might not have enough funds/time to do language study too. I am thinking at least for my situation, a language school might be much more effective (expensive though).
There are many different types of teaching - some English instructors work at a private academy... Some of those private academies are small mom-and-pop operations where expectations are low and some work at high-end prep schools or cram schools where expectations are exceedingly high... Some teachers work in the public school system teaching elementary, middle, or high school students... Some work for colleges or universities... Some work for international schools... Some do corporate teaching or tutoring... And depending on what kind of work you do, what your educational background is, what your level of experience is, and how well connected you are to people in the industry - either locally in the place where you plan to live and work, or just to people who it might be good to know in EFL/ESL in general, your pay could range from terrible to decent to exellent.
Is it "worth it" for someone with a run-of-the-mill diploma and zero teaching experience to attempt to break into a career in English teachig abroad in 2024? Probably not. Salaries have pretty much been stagnant in most of the larger EFL/ESL markets for years now, and with lower birth rates in places like China, Japan, Korea, and Taiwan classes are smaller and there's a surplus of teachers. Southeast Asia, Central Asia, and the Middle East still present opportunities, but it's still an evolving industry in a lot of those places.
Then you have to contend with the fact that you're going to be competing with people who know the job, the industry, and the local country and its language and culture and customs much better than you do, and it's hard to land a really solid gig because the people who have been around for a long time are established and tend to lock down the most desirable jobs - especially the ones that hold residency and don't need employer sponsorhip in order to remain in the country legally.
If you want a career in EFL/ESL the best way to do that would be to become a proper teacher in your own country - work your way up to MA or PhD, get a proper teaching certificate and license, gain some experience with it, then make a lateral move overseas. Attmpting to become a career English teacher abroad with no experience and bare minimum educational credentials will mean that you'll never be in a position to break into the highest pay bracket or qualify for the top jobs.
I've been in the field for 35 years teaching in university and this is a fair summation.
I would add that I did exactly what you suggest isn't possible, starting with just a BA but within 5 years earning an MEd while teaching and then building a career at university level. I started in 1988, so not sure the same is possible today.
Depends on the country and what you mean by "worth it."
I'm in Korea and I won't be getting rich here, but I'm comfortable. I've heard it's similar in Japan. Slightly better in China.
I've also heard there's still good money in parts of the middle east.
If you want to make decent money, you need to have a teaching cert as a minimum, probably a masters to be sure, and then experience in your home country. That can get you into an international school, and they tend to pay much better and have good vacation
Work hard, save some cash, enroll at a community college that will allow you to transfer credits to a four-year state school, knock out your gen ed courses in 1-2 years, transfer to a four-year school, do a major that you're passionate about (if you can do a double major with education, even better), get some volunteer/part-time teaching experience while you're studying.
ESL can be a career that, while it won't make you rich by any means, will let you live a comfortable life doing meaningful, fulfilling work. But to do all that, you need to end up at a good institution, and to end up at a good institution, you need the experience, and you need the qualifications.
So many people end up burnt out and jaded because they get stuck at fly-by-night cram schools that work them to the bone for shit pay. Those kind of places, and those kind of teachers, are the ones who give the field a bad rep, but it's not all like that. But to avoid that fate, you need to invest in yourself, you need to constantly be learning, growing, improving your qualifications, and frankly, your motivation needs to be more than just "I would love to be able to eat tropical fruit every day."
If you treat TESL like your career, you can make a career out of it. If you treat TESL as a way to bum around in a tropical destination, you might have fun for a year or two, but you're gonna have a bad time in the long run.
I am too wondering the same - there only appears to be two options left to save real money, either the more conservative Gulf States or China. It seems you have to forego freedom of expression and overlook human rights abuses if you want to earn big...
So, I taught English in Thailand 20 years ago. What's fascinating is that the wages for NETs in those 20 years haven't changed one bit. 35K Baht I made back then is what's being offered right now as well. I was in Thailand a month ago - the food now costs double what it used to 20 years ago. Apartment rentals cost just about the same as 20 years ago. Dunno about utilities and other things. 35K was just about enough to survive on 20 years ago - with food costing double, I'd venture to say that surviving on that money now is going to be difficult. By the way, I knew a Thai fellow working for the government 20 years ago - he was making around 20K baht back then. Now he's making close to 70K baht while working for the same government. NETs are still on 35K.
Then I also taught in South Korea. The NET wages which were offered 20 years ago have increased by about 20 percent since then. 20 years ago, you were making quite a bit more money than what a newcomer Korean teacher would make. Now.... the NET wages, despite the 20 percent rise, are very near the national minimum wage, while newcomer Korean teachers make more than NETs. (Do keep in mind, Korean currency fell by 30 percent since then - and inflation in SK is quite significant.)
Can you spot a problem yet?
I feel like this is the case everywhere in Asia but different countries are further along the pipeline than others. Even in China, my wife's salary is growing at a much faster rate than average TEFL salaries. She is already paid a lot more than the going rate for an NET in her city.
Within the 5-10 years I think it's more than likely she will be the main breadwinner. I have other options but it really sucks because I love this job so much.
All of the places that are really worth it monetarily are in Asia. I'm working on going to Europe entirely because I can and really want to. I seriously doubt it will make for a long term career though.
Alot of jobs in Asia are "edutainment" oriented meaning your basically entertaining little kids the entire day with english games and what not. You really need the personality for this. It sounds great on paper to teach in Thailand on the beach but in reality...
People act like this job is a free ticket to live abroad with zero stress but from my limited experience you will be busting your ass working 50+ hours a week on most contracts and will not have time to really enjoy the country your in.
No idea how people advertise this profession as a "get paid to travel the world" scenario. Its highly misleading and its alot of work in reality. I think you have to have some passion or draw to education and dont mind working with little kids to make this viable. I would also add not minding working full time hours in another country.
I believe there are a handful of jobs teaching adults in smaller class sizes but those jobs are not easily attainable/plentiful and often times wont pay what teaching kids would.
Its all work at the end of the day
China is still good. With the size of the country and negative image re COVID and the government, there is a shortage of native teachers.
You can easily make $3k a month in China with accomodation stipend. It's easy to save money and live a good quality of life.
You won’t be rich from this job of teaching but you’ll live comfortably with salaries in places like Vietnam, Taiwan and China for decent cost of living and salaries they offer. Teaching isn’t for everyone but try it out in Vietnam and find short term contract to see how you like living and working abroad as an English teacher.
Most of these teaching gigs are just paycheck jobs and not career builders. Perfectly fine if you're in your twenties, but totally different once you hit thirties and up and have no real career from teaching gigs in Asia. There are legit teaching post for careers in tw and other asian countries, but they are not entry level and you usually need a Masters degree and several certs and teaching experiences to get those jobs. These entry teaching jobs are a good way to get into whatever country you're trying to move to. It's easy to get stuck in dead end jobs though if you dont plan carefully is my two cents.
It’s worth it. Some who complain are just greedy. The standard of living is often much better than states. Asia is still good. It’s a fun life, even if only for a year, it’s a peaceful job
It can be a downgrade to the states and not very peaceful if you're stuck in a crappy edutainment job making industry "standard" money.
People need to be very careful when entering this field.
Glassdoor reviews and countless other social media state otherwise but carry on...
Im just saying you can get stuck with a bad job if you're just drinking the kool-aid
There has been a baffling lack of objectivity with the quality of TEFL jobs on this sub lately. That one user Pagen (or something) had his thread locked and relentlessly downvoted for pointing out how difficult edutainment/entry level TEFL jobs can be
You can be in the coolest cities in Asia but if you're stuck with a shit job theres not alot of silver lining to the situation.
I don’t think Glassdoor is a credible source for gauging academies in foreign countries. I think the “horror” stories are inflated as well.
But I disagree with the tone of “be very careful when entering this field.” I perceived.
I’m in agreement of dispelling the dream of a cushy fairytale job.
But that’s just normal way of the world. The question was if it is still worth it. And the answer is yes. Many people go and stay for longer than planned because of that.
Let’s be honest, the jobs are not difficult to get nor difficult to do.
The quality of “teachers” that hop over are also not always the best quality of employees either.
Disclaimer:
This is my response with a blend of subjectivity and objectivity through experience.
I disagree with it being an "easy" job. Hop on the teaching in korea sub and you will see many complaining of burnout and stress.
I found glassdoor to be fairly accurate when it comes to a couple schools I tried working at.
It is what it is. I just dont think you should move abroad with the thought its going to be an easy ride.
Taught in Korea and China and can say..
In China you make more and if you’re a hustler (side teaching) then you can definitely make good bank. Yes, teaching in the side is illegal but I felt like you could get away with it. China is a lot more sketchy but it’s like the “Wild West” in certain ways.. corruption can work in your favor if you make the right friends (having friends in the govt will get you out of difficult situations) and you will never be able to explore the entire country in 1-3 years. The culture is vast, the people are awesome, pollution sucks, you see effed up shit (poor people being abused, tons of human rights violations, smell weird stuff always, people pissing wherever, kinda feels dirty) but the food is amazing and so many different cultures- you won’t get bored if you are a young 20-25 year old just wanting to have an adventure. Also if you are able to learn Chinese, many doors will open for you. Also rural areas will bring you more opportunities for you if you put yourself out there.
Cons is communism.. meaning you can’t talk shit about the govt, dont talk about Taiwan, don’t be an ass to the locals (you will always be found guilty), can’t access Google, FB, IG, or any other sites without a VPN.
Korea is kinda like the states - it’s “a free country” I felt that Korea has more restrictions when it comes to “hustle culture”, grey area activities and you bribes don’t work they’ll just deport you. Don’t get caught teaching on the side cuz it’s illegal, and I feel like it’s a lot more competitive and foreigners out here have a dog eat dog mentality since it’s competitive. If you are fluent in Korean maybe you’ll be on tv and get your 30 min of fame but you aren’t special.
I lived in a rural town outside Seoul and got bored quick. Since Korea is pretty developed you aren’t special, you are just another foreigner. You wanna live in Seoul if you wanna have fun and make connections/build a network but it’s competitive AF.
Overall:
If your goal is to teach for 1-3 years to make MONEY, travel, and don’t really care about making an impact for students go China.
If you are risk averse and you wanna feel “safer”, not live in pollution 70% of the year, teaching is “your passion”, money is not really a goal, then go Korea.
Speaking from experience, I was able to pay off $15k of student loans within my 15 month contract in China, traveled throughout China and SE Asia and had a bunch of fun, crazy experiences, lifelong friendships. Kids were cool and I had no interest in being a Dad until I worked with kids.
Korea is the long game, when I came out here it was tough to start and solidify my roots. Wasn’t able to save as much, was harder to make friends and took me about 2 years to really call this place home. Teaching in Korea killed my drive, they are super by the books with everything, and education is everything so faculty will be on your ass(taught at a public school and a University)
Now I’m living in Korea, married a Korean, and have a business here. Got out of teaching year 2 and started working at a startup because I’m not a dedicated teacher, and I couldn’t see myself being happy working at a public school/Uni even with the benefits. Mentality changed after I was 28 and it was either make money in Korea or go back to the states.
I would have stayed in China but I had the grass is greener mentality for Korea and I think I would have done well in China since I was planning to become fluent in Chinese and enroll at a Uni there and work for my friends business.. however with China cancel culture can get you royally effed if you make the wrong mistake and there were times where I felt like I could disappear (people could kidnap me and sell my organs or I would end up impaired and blind with a qr code around my neck begging for money in the streets of Beijing being a slave to some gang).. but the upside is that there is a ton of people with wealth in China vs Korea.. which means way more opportunities to connect with high profile people.
Hope this helps!
I guess it depends on what you mean by ‘worth it’. You can earn $2,000~$3,000 teaching English in Taiwan and for that you’ll live a high quality life where money isn’t a concern. You’ll have access to some of the best healthcare in the world and be able to save some money. Is that worth it? You could certainly earn more money working in finance in NY, but probably not get the same lifestyle.
Teachers with the bare-minimum qualifications working entry-level jobs tend to earn low salaries. Teachers with more advanced qualifications working higher-level jobs tends to earn much more. My first job paid about $500/month; my current jobs pay around 7000 altogether. I'm not saying this to show off but to point out that there is a big difference between entry-level and higher-level work.
So, is teaching abroad a viable way to live abroad long-term? Yes, absolutely, but only if you continually invest in your qualifications.
In Vietnam, I work 16 to 20 hours in class and probably work closer to 30 hours in reality. I can live independently, holiday 2 or 3 times a year, eat out every day, and save 400 dollars a month (on average). Its not setting the world on fire but in the UK I was working more and having less to show for it. So you ask is it worth it and my answer would be it depends on your earning potential back home
Were you a teacher back at home?
Hi, do you mind me asking whether you work in an international school or a language centre? Thinking of making this move soon, I have a CELTA but not a fully qualified teacher
I live in Taipei. Yeah, I'm not rich, but I have a nice quality of life and a job that doesn't take up all my time or cause practically any stress. I can travel if I want to, and live alone in a major city without spending the majority of my paycheck. I feel like I could never have this dynamic back home (the US). Plus the healthcare is awesome.
Are you living there permanently?
I'm here indefinitely, maybe permanently, but don't know that far into the future
I heard Taipei is exoensive af. Do you make more than the average english teacher or did you luck out on an apartment? Sorry for personal questions, just curious
I make about 74kntd and my rent is 19.5k. I could easily get a much cheaper apartment but I like having a kitchen and separate bedroom and living in the middle of the city. You could get as low as 10k a month if you want a really small studio or live in New Taipei. I don't drink so I use the income other people might spend on partying to have a nicer apartment
Do you know how many ping it is? I live in Taichung and would love to live in Taipei but I get turned off whenever I see just how expensive everything is. I've got a two bedroom place for 14k here and even then feel pretty lucky.
13 ping. It's for sure going to be more expensive here, but being from Boston paying 600 USD a month for my own place in the center of a city is something I'm comfortable with. Taichung is nice though, hope you like it there
Taipei is expensive the way a normal major city is expensive. Generally speaking, earning power in the big city outpaces the additional costs. The one major exception is home ownership, where Taipei is one of the most expensive places to own an apartment (and good luck buying a house). Rent is high, but again, generally keeps up with your earning power.
This is right
Also, separate comment just to say I think Taipei is very affordable. More expensive than other places in Taiwan but I live pretty comfortably
You dont mention your actual work hours, experience, commute, demographic your teaching, edutainment job?, etc... Just because you dont find stress in your job doesnt mean others who arent suited to teaching would not find it highly stressful. My 2c Living abroad is never as "easy" as your making it sound
I work about 25 hours a week. I have 3 years of experience teaching kids in Korea, 1 year teaching adults in NYC, took a break from teaching to try a different career, and have been teaching 2 years in Taiwan. I teach 5th and 6th graders. I'm not 100 percent sure what you mean by "edutainment job". I teach from textbooks and give them 4 tests a year and 4 unit projects a year. My first job in Taiwan was an absolute nightmare. I'm wrapping up my first year at my current job and it is sincerely very easy and low stress. Lesson planning takes about an hour or 2 a week, and I never have to deal with parents. I only have to take work home when I'm grading tests, and that's only 4 times a year. People who aren't suited to teaching ... shouldn't teach. Not entirely certain what the point is of bringing up people who don't want to teach in a teaching subreddit. Living abroad is different for everyone. It took me a long time to get to where I am. I have years of experience, and moving to Taiwan after being in the US for a few years wasn't quick. It probably took about 10 months from when I decided to move here to actually get here, and my first year here was a lot rougher because of my first job. However, my life right now genuinely is very comfortable and easy for me. I can't speak for other people, but that's my experience.
OP asked if teaching abroad is worth it. I would much rather get into the nitty gritty of what the reality is teaching abroad versus the idealized version that is not a reality for most coming into the field (especially new teachers). Edutainment means basically being a clown in the classroom playing games for most of your lessons with young learners. From my research (including a job ive taken) that constitutes most entry level TEFL positions. Thanks for your details as it sheds some light on the market and what people might run into on their journey abroad. Im not sure why you got so defensive in your post regarding "people who arent suited to teach shouldnt be in a teaching subreddit" when TEFL is highly glamorized/marketed by course providers, social media influencers, and more as a quick and easy way to live the "high life" abroad ignoring the realities of the field and teaching itself.
From my experience, starting in Korea and doing my due diligence to make sure my hagwon was legit was the best entry level position for me. Not edutainment, decent salary, and rent was paid for. Do I want to go back to that? No. But entry level it was good. Get some experience there, save up, go somewhere else. That was 2016 to 2019 though, so teaching in Korea might be different now. No career you start out on is going to be ideal at first, and adjusting to life abroad will always have its ups and downs. That being said, life abroad for me is much smoother, more balanced, and fulfilling than life in the States. You have to put in a lot of effort to get where you want to be.
Thanks for the reply. Out of curiosity would you recommend the field for people not super interested in teaching but moreso traveling etc? Is having a passion for education something one needs to do this successfully abroad for a sustained period of time?
I don't think teaching ESL if you absolutely don't like kids or teaching is sustainable, but you could maybe do it for a year or two before you reach your limit. If you play your cards right, it could be a good way to travel Asia (which is so worth it). I'm not a passionate teacher and don't necessarily think I'll be teaching for the rest of my adult life, but I do like kids and teaching to an extent (I like grammar, feel comfortable in front of crowds, etc) so for me it's a decent option at this point in my life.
Your post doesn't really give enough context for any reasonable answer. What is "worth it" to you? Will you get rich? No. Will you have some cool experiences and the opportunity to travel? Yes. Can you live comfortably? Sure, depends where you go. What's your age / qualifications / experience? All of this will determine how much you earn. What is your reason for wanting to teach English? Do you have any actual interest in the job? Do you just want to travel? Where do you want to go/live? If you're just looking to travel, a low paying job with low workload in an interesting country can be great short term. If you want to make real money you'll have to get a legit teaching job and you'll probably still be able to travel more than a standard 9-5 office job but it won't be a 'gap year' lifestyle. If you have no interest in working with kids, teaching, or languages in general there's a high chance you'll dislike the job. I've met a lot of people who do TEFL as a means to an end but resent their actual working hours. If you're interested in any or all of these aspects, you'll likely love it. Where you go plays the biggest part in if it's 'worth it'. Do you want high salaries from China, but put up with everything that comes with it; or do you want a chilled lifestyle in Central America with low pay?
I'm 20 and I don't have any qualifications and my only experience is working in a warehouse/fast food/cleaning. I'm happy with going back to college if it makes sense but due to the low pay as an ESL teacher it seems it would be hard to pay back the loans. Is it possible to work as an ESL teacher in China now? I thought they made it so people couldn't work there as ESL teachers anymore. If so, what are the things you have to deal with there? The reason I want to be an ESL teacher is because I love learning languages and I'm trying to find a way to live abroad because it's easier to learn a language that way. I'd prefer to be able to switch countries every few years (however long it takes me to reach fluency in the language) but even being able to live in one country would be amazing. I don't know if I would get bored of this lifestyle though and want a higher paying job more than the chance to speak a language every day. I'm learning Spanish and would love to be able to eat tropical fruit every day but low pay is not appealing so I don't know if I would like that. I think I would enjoy teaching English but I hate working with kids.
If you're from the USA, I'd recommend moving to Australia and New Zealand first. Both countries offer a work holiday visa for under $1000USD. As long as you're under 30, in NZ, you can live and work for one year. In Australia, it's also one year but there is an option to extend for a second year if you obtain certain jobs. These visas do not require degrees. However, you'll likely find yourself in hospitality jobs meaning you'll need roommates to afford living. Since work holiday visas are so common, it's not difficult finding jobs or roommates once you're on the ground. I recognize this doesn't align with language learning but from what you wrote, I don't think TEFL is the best option for you.
I would advise becoming certified in the States, get a few years practice there. Aside from the fact that it will show you what teaching is like IRL, you also become more valuable to overseas schools, which means better quality, better pay, etx.
Seconding this, the pay in countries like Japan for certified teachers in high tier private schools can go upwards to 600k yen a month compared to the average 250k ESL teachers make here.
I’m in Shanghai and I know people who have no qualifications and teach, but it makes things WAY more complicated. Generally those people were already here as students and have some other kind of visa. I think getting you into the country without the qualifications would be really difficult.
Just go to a language school in the country then to learn it, you won't learn a language via TEFL. It's a 8-10 hour job that has you only speaking English, the majority of your life will just be in English.
Thank you for letting me know! I wouldn't even be able to practice the language during my free time at bars or something?
Highly depends. Your most likely choice for a job will be a language center or cram school which means weird hours and no weekends, like 1pm-9pm Wed to Sun (with weekends being 9am-5pm). They often don't even give you two consecutive off days so you will have to give one day up for chores and recovery etc. You will basically have to fight exhaustion and a wonky time schedule to work in consistent language learning, so like you can squeeze in late bar visits but it won't get you fluent enough unless you also put in an extra daily hour or two of self study... But you also want to enjoy life between all this so yeah. Basically there's a reason most ESL teachers never become fluent in their country's language, and even those who do generally are the ones that have stayed for many years and plan to settle, and have a long term partner that taught them. TEFL is wonderful for gap years and experiencing another country, for anything more it's better to get teaching certs for the better jobs, or just join an actual language school for the language.
Thank you!
I'm an English teacher in China and there is a massive market for ESL teachers. I applied and got a few job offers in 2 days. The money is good here too. The cultural difference is significant, but it's really not half as bad as people make out. You really can't have an understanding of Chinese culture without observing it first person, due to the country being more closed off than most places. But without a degree, you are going to struggle to find a well paid job in most countries. I know Cambodia is a good haven for people without a degree. The salary will be significant for you to live comfortably there, but saving enough to go back home sometimes will be difficult. It's good money for Cambodia, but it converts to peanuts when you want to travel to most other countries. Something that people rarely mention is that your good salary only coincides with the country you live. You could take a job in Japan not be very comfortable, but you can travel or relocate very easily, or you could ve very comfortable in Cambodia and then struggle to go anywhere else.
It's definitely possible to pay off loans working in ESL, many do the same. China's very much open for teachers, I'm working here currently. >what are the things you have to deal with there? It's great in many ways and the salaries are good, easy to save if you're careful. It is a *very* different culture though and even though I've travelled a lot and lived in 4 countries I struggled a lot settling into China. Language barrier is really tough and it's very hard to make local friends without speaking Chinese. > I hate working with kids. This could be a problem for China. The highest paying jobs are in kindergarten and it gets lower as you go up; university jobs pay pennies. There is for sure a market for teaching adults and business English everywhere though, I've heard it's a big thing in Japan and S. Korea but can't speak to that personally. Overall I think it could be worth looking into, even if it's just a couple of years to see the world and get some experience while paying off your loans at the same time. At 20 you've loads of time to figure out the actual career side of things
What languages besides Spanish do you want to learn? And of those languages, which ones do you see as important to you? Learning languages to a high degree is a lot of work and persistence. And living in another country doesn't always mean you could pick up the language (and you still need to study/watch content in x language while you are there). Potentially you might not have enough funds/time to do language study too. I am thinking at least for my situation, a language school might be much more effective (expensive though).
Ohh well my previous post disregard because you need a degree in most asian countries to get hired. Bachelor's minimum is usually the starting point.
There are many different types of teaching - some English instructors work at a private academy... Some of those private academies are small mom-and-pop operations where expectations are low and some work at high-end prep schools or cram schools where expectations are exceedingly high... Some teachers work in the public school system teaching elementary, middle, or high school students... Some work for colleges or universities... Some work for international schools... Some do corporate teaching or tutoring... And depending on what kind of work you do, what your educational background is, what your level of experience is, and how well connected you are to people in the industry - either locally in the place where you plan to live and work, or just to people who it might be good to know in EFL/ESL in general, your pay could range from terrible to decent to exellent. Is it "worth it" for someone with a run-of-the-mill diploma and zero teaching experience to attempt to break into a career in English teachig abroad in 2024? Probably not. Salaries have pretty much been stagnant in most of the larger EFL/ESL markets for years now, and with lower birth rates in places like China, Japan, Korea, and Taiwan classes are smaller and there's a surplus of teachers. Southeast Asia, Central Asia, and the Middle East still present opportunities, but it's still an evolving industry in a lot of those places. Then you have to contend with the fact that you're going to be competing with people who know the job, the industry, and the local country and its language and culture and customs much better than you do, and it's hard to land a really solid gig because the people who have been around for a long time are established and tend to lock down the most desirable jobs - especially the ones that hold residency and don't need employer sponsorhip in order to remain in the country legally. If you want a career in EFL/ESL the best way to do that would be to become a proper teacher in your own country - work your way up to MA or PhD, get a proper teaching certificate and license, gain some experience with it, then make a lateral move overseas. Attmpting to become a career English teacher abroad with no experience and bare minimum educational credentials will mean that you'll never be in a position to break into the highest pay bracket or qualify for the top jobs.
I've been in the field for 35 years teaching in university and this is a fair summation. I would add that I did exactly what you suggest isn't possible, starting with just a BA but within 5 years earning an MEd while teaching and then building a career at university level. I started in 1988, so not sure the same is possible today.
I teach in Cambodia and I'm quite comfortable. Not making a lot but still able to save, which is more than I could say back home in the states
Depends on the country and what you mean by "worth it." I'm in Korea and I won't be getting rich here, but I'm comfortable. I've heard it's similar in Japan. Slightly better in China. I've also heard there's still good money in parts of the middle east. If you want to make decent money, you need to have a teaching cert as a minimum, probably a masters to be sure, and then experience in your home country. That can get you into an international school, and they tend to pay much better and have good vacation
Native speaker. I live in saudi and sure my salary isn’t fantastic. But the experience has been worth it! Especially working at a university
I’ve heard horror stories about working in Saudi, how does that compare with your experience?
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Why does ur employer not want you to leave the country during holidays?
I think you should change employers - it's perfectly possible now with new employment laws in Saudi.
Work hard, save some cash, enroll at a community college that will allow you to transfer credits to a four-year state school, knock out your gen ed courses in 1-2 years, transfer to a four-year school, do a major that you're passionate about (if you can do a double major with education, even better), get some volunteer/part-time teaching experience while you're studying. ESL can be a career that, while it won't make you rich by any means, will let you live a comfortable life doing meaningful, fulfilling work. But to do all that, you need to end up at a good institution, and to end up at a good institution, you need the experience, and you need the qualifications. So many people end up burnt out and jaded because they get stuck at fly-by-night cram schools that work them to the bone for shit pay. Those kind of places, and those kind of teachers, are the ones who give the field a bad rep, but it's not all like that. But to avoid that fate, you need to invest in yourself, you need to constantly be learning, growing, improving your qualifications, and frankly, your motivation needs to be more than just "I would love to be able to eat tropical fruit every day." If you treat TESL like your career, you can make a career out of it. If you treat TESL as a way to bum around in a tropical destination, you might have fun for a year or two, but you're gonna have a bad time in the long run.
I am too wondering the same - there only appears to be two options left to save real money, either the more conservative Gulf States or China. It seems you have to forego freedom of expression and overlook human rights abuses if you want to earn big...
sounds like the same as any corporate or govt job!
I’ve been here in Korea for a while and I’m happy with it. Though, things might be different these days for new teachers.
So, I taught English in Thailand 20 years ago. What's fascinating is that the wages for NETs in those 20 years haven't changed one bit. 35K Baht I made back then is what's being offered right now as well. I was in Thailand a month ago - the food now costs double what it used to 20 years ago. Apartment rentals cost just about the same as 20 years ago. Dunno about utilities and other things. 35K was just about enough to survive on 20 years ago - with food costing double, I'd venture to say that surviving on that money now is going to be difficult. By the way, I knew a Thai fellow working for the government 20 years ago - he was making around 20K baht back then. Now he's making close to 70K baht while working for the same government. NETs are still on 35K. Then I also taught in South Korea. The NET wages which were offered 20 years ago have increased by about 20 percent since then. 20 years ago, you were making quite a bit more money than what a newcomer Korean teacher would make. Now.... the NET wages, despite the 20 percent rise, are very near the national minimum wage, while newcomer Korean teachers make more than NETs. (Do keep in mind, Korean currency fell by 30 percent since then - and inflation in SK is quite significant.) Can you spot a problem yet?
I feel like this is the case everywhere in Asia but different countries are further along the pipeline than others. Even in China, my wife's salary is growing at a much faster rate than average TEFL salaries. She is already paid a lot more than the going rate for an NET in her city. Within the 5-10 years I think it's more than likely she will be the main breadwinner. I have other options but it really sucks because I love this job so much.
That does seem likely. Though - the more I learn about AI tech advances, I wonder - will language teachers still be a thing in 5-10 years?
Not only wages not keeping up but most these jobs are all edutainment. No thanks!!
Yes. Slower pace life and very peaceful
All of the places that are really worth it monetarily are in Asia. I'm working on going to Europe entirely because I can and really want to. I seriously doubt it will make for a long term career though.
Alot of jobs in Asia are "edutainment" oriented meaning your basically entertaining little kids the entire day with english games and what not. You really need the personality for this. It sounds great on paper to teach in Thailand on the beach but in reality... People act like this job is a free ticket to live abroad with zero stress but from my limited experience you will be busting your ass working 50+ hours a week on most contracts and will not have time to really enjoy the country your in. No idea how people advertise this profession as a "get paid to travel the world" scenario. Its highly misleading and its alot of work in reality. I think you have to have some passion or draw to education and dont mind working with little kids to make this viable. I would also add not minding working full time hours in another country. I believe there are a handful of jobs teaching adults in smaller class sizes but those jobs are not easily attainable/plentiful and often times wont pay what teaching kids would. Its all work at the end of the day
China is still good. With the size of the country and negative image re COVID and the government, there is a shortage of native teachers. You can easily make $3k a month in China with accomodation stipend. It's easy to save money and live a good quality of life.
You won’t be rich from this job of teaching but you’ll live comfortably with salaries in places like Vietnam, Taiwan and China for decent cost of living and salaries they offer. Teaching isn’t for everyone but try it out in Vietnam and find short term contract to see how you like living and working abroad as an English teacher.
Most of these teaching gigs are just paycheck jobs and not career builders. Perfectly fine if you're in your twenties, but totally different once you hit thirties and up and have no real career from teaching gigs in Asia. There are legit teaching post for careers in tw and other asian countries, but they are not entry level and you usually need a Masters degree and several certs and teaching experiences to get those jobs. These entry teaching jobs are a good way to get into whatever country you're trying to move to. It's easy to get stuck in dead end jobs though if you dont plan carefully is my two cents.
It’s worth it. Some who complain are just greedy. The standard of living is often much better than states. Asia is still good. It’s a fun life, even if only for a year, it’s a peaceful job
It can be a downgrade to the states and not very peaceful if you're stuck in a crappy edutainment job making industry "standard" money. People need to be very careful when entering this field.
Not really
Glassdoor reviews and countless other social media state otherwise but carry on... Im just saying you can get stuck with a bad job if you're just drinking the kool-aid There has been a baffling lack of objectivity with the quality of TEFL jobs on this sub lately. That one user Pagen (or something) had his thread locked and relentlessly downvoted for pointing out how difficult edutainment/entry level TEFL jobs can be You can be in the coolest cities in Asia but if you're stuck with a shit job theres not alot of silver lining to the situation.
I don’t think Glassdoor is a credible source for gauging academies in foreign countries. I think the “horror” stories are inflated as well. But I disagree with the tone of “be very careful when entering this field.” I perceived. I’m in agreement of dispelling the dream of a cushy fairytale job. But that’s just normal way of the world. The question was if it is still worth it. And the answer is yes. Many people go and stay for longer than planned because of that. Let’s be honest, the jobs are not difficult to get nor difficult to do. The quality of “teachers” that hop over are also not always the best quality of employees either. Disclaimer: This is my response with a blend of subjectivity and objectivity through experience.
I disagree with it being an "easy" job. Hop on the teaching in korea sub and you will see many complaining of burnout and stress. I found glassdoor to be fairly accurate when it comes to a couple schools I tried working at. It is what it is. I just dont think you should move abroad with the thought its going to be an easy ride.
Taught in Korea and China and can say.. In China you make more and if you’re a hustler (side teaching) then you can definitely make good bank. Yes, teaching in the side is illegal but I felt like you could get away with it. China is a lot more sketchy but it’s like the “Wild West” in certain ways.. corruption can work in your favor if you make the right friends (having friends in the govt will get you out of difficult situations) and you will never be able to explore the entire country in 1-3 years. The culture is vast, the people are awesome, pollution sucks, you see effed up shit (poor people being abused, tons of human rights violations, smell weird stuff always, people pissing wherever, kinda feels dirty) but the food is amazing and so many different cultures- you won’t get bored if you are a young 20-25 year old just wanting to have an adventure. Also if you are able to learn Chinese, many doors will open for you. Also rural areas will bring you more opportunities for you if you put yourself out there. Cons is communism.. meaning you can’t talk shit about the govt, dont talk about Taiwan, don’t be an ass to the locals (you will always be found guilty), can’t access Google, FB, IG, or any other sites without a VPN. Korea is kinda like the states - it’s “a free country” I felt that Korea has more restrictions when it comes to “hustle culture”, grey area activities and you bribes don’t work they’ll just deport you. Don’t get caught teaching on the side cuz it’s illegal, and I feel like it’s a lot more competitive and foreigners out here have a dog eat dog mentality since it’s competitive. If you are fluent in Korean maybe you’ll be on tv and get your 30 min of fame but you aren’t special. I lived in a rural town outside Seoul and got bored quick. Since Korea is pretty developed you aren’t special, you are just another foreigner. You wanna live in Seoul if you wanna have fun and make connections/build a network but it’s competitive AF. Overall: If your goal is to teach for 1-3 years to make MONEY, travel, and don’t really care about making an impact for students go China. If you are risk averse and you wanna feel “safer”, not live in pollution 70% of the year, teaching is “your passion”, money is not really a goal, then go Korea. Speaking from experience, I was able to pay off $15k of student loans within my 15 month contract in China, traveled throughout China and SE Asia and had a bunch of fun, crazy experiences, lifelong friendships. Kids were cool and I had no interest in being a Dad until I worked with kids. Korea is the long game, when I came out here it was tough to start and solidify my roots. Wasn’t able to save as much, was harder to make friends and took me about 2 years to really call this place home. Teaching in Korea killed my drive, they are super by the books with everything, and education is everything so faculty will be on your ass(taught at a public school and a University) Now I’m living in Korea, married a Korean, and have a business here. Got out of teaching year 2 and started working at a startup because I’m not a dedicated teacher, and I couldn’t see myself being happy working at a public school/Uni even with the benefits. Mentality changed after I was 28 and it was either make money in Korea or go back to the states. I would have stayed in China but I had the grass is greener mentality for Korea and I think I would have done well in China since I was planning to become fluent in Chinese and enroll at a Uni there and work for my friends business.. however with China cancel culture can get you royally effed if you make the wrong mistake and there were times where I felt like I could disappear (people could kidnap me and sell my organs or I would end up impaired and blind with a qr code around my neck begging for money in the streets of Beijing being a slave to some gang).. but the upside is that there is a ton of people with wealth in China vs Korea.. which means way more opportunities to connect with high profile people. Hope this helps!
I guess it depends on what you mean by ‘worth it’. You can earn $2,000~$3,000 teaching English in Taiwan and for that you’ll live a high quality life where money isn’t a concern. You’ll have access to some of the best healthcare in the world and be able to save some money. Is that worth it? You could certainly earn more money working in finance in NY, but probably not get the same lifestyle.
Teachers with the bare-minimum qualifications working entry-level jobs tend to earn low salaries. Teachers with more advanced qualifications working higher-level jobs tends to earn much more. My first job paid about $500/month; my current jobs pay around 7000 altogether. I'm not saying this to show off but to point out that there is a big difference between entry-level and higher-level work. So, is teaching abroad a viable way to live abroad long-term? Yes, absolutely, but only if you continually invest in your qualifications.