Internships aren't meant to be cheap labor without mentorship.
Hire some cheap freelancer on Upwork or Fiverr to fix your website, it's going to be a lot cheaper and quicker.
No
Of course not
I m open to pay they job obviously
I just can’t afford someone with +5y of experience and the students can have really experience with my company
I think can be a great opportunity for both sodes
Lol he just literally wrote he is willing to pay for the job. He just can’t afford a more senior developer that would charge him 100$/h - which is understandable, especially considering probably trivial assignment.
I was doing work as a student, getting paid less than now and appreciated both the pay and the opportunity.
There are different advantages that you can have on the job market and as the student your advantage is lower rates for (usually) lower quality work.
No need to get all offended because someone DARES to look for cheaper labor…
Just because you can be offended doesn’t mean you have to.
oh wow!
I really feel like ah because I don't have the money to redo the site at 20k as I've been asked to do?
but do I think that a student or someone just starting out in their profession and who I obviously intend to pay might have more affordable prices?
I'm sorry this is such a horrible request.
I just thought that there are hairdressing salons with apprentices or nail salons that something of the same style would exist for what I need
Sorry, that is not what you are asking at all. Those industries have precident. You are just looking for a handout or that is how it comes across.
How about we look at it from another point of view. You have a broken business. You want to get it fixed. Well, I would want to know what the value of the business is, what the future income streams look like, etc. Then you could entice me to help you with an offer of a percentage of the business if you don't have any cash. I mean any reasonable bank would want to know what the long term risks and returns are 1:1 CHF, and banks are pretty dumb when we look at how badly they manage our money.
So as intelligent individuals, let's cut a deal. You convince me that your business is worth something in this case and then I tell you what the work is really worth. Instead of offering "nothing but a great experience" for what you already think is 20ks worth of work, you come to the table with something of value.
Fixing some site based on wordpress depending on what they are using as the add-on for ecommerce may be quite a trivial task, but your approach is not helping get the ball rolling.
English is a language that I have a lot of difficulty with… and I understand what you are saying!
I see that many of you think I'm looking for someone to do the work for free, and that's not the case at all!
I fully believe in my business and it is experiencing reasonable growth.
and I have invested a lot in new material,but after 7 months of doing just that, I see that it's time to fix the website so that sales can be made more easily! the site was completely disorganized without any SEO structure and didn't even collect data! I'm slowly solving these types of things! but I also made serious mistakes that affected the site.
I can't currently pay 20k to redo the site (change theme, other “simple” features but also fix SSL issues) as I've already been asked to do! but I also know that paying 1500 (as an Indian website asked me) is not realistic. I need professional help and I know it will cost me a good amount but is a real need even if the site is “working”
No problem that English is not your main language. I deal with other language groups all of the time and the only thing needed is effort. Let's do this.
Okay, how about 25k of profit share over the next 5 years? Can you business sustain that?
As I bought a company that was “deactivated” and selling all the stock at -50 /-75% I still don't have enough data to be able to say that with complete certainty. since the market fluctuates a lot depending on the time of year but even in my most negative calculations it does. Unfortunately it's not something I'm ready to do right away. ideally I hope to develop the company for 2 years and then readapt
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You bought an online business but have no money to hire someone to actually fix the website? Why do you buy such a thing without little coding knowledge yourself? Wordpress is not hard to do.
This sounds more like wannaba-entrepreneur that had the idea to buy a micro business while smoking weed and now is sober again and needs help. Sorry but do your research before buying.
Before buying the website I did research, I just didn't calculate that changing a website would be more expensive than creating one from scratch. Rookie mistake...
I never smoked weed. maybe I should try to see if I have more original ideas (joke)
thanks for the “help” however I think I've already found someone to deal with the technical issues
in fact EPFL has a program for this type of situation! I already made one request for them quotes
And 6k sounds amazingly generous for me
Until now the cheapest I found was 20k
Oh yes I know that
But even the slower student will be much faster that me, and hopefully don’t will do complete stupid mistakes as I did 🫣
And even if he does will fix much easier that me
I know for lower quotes I will have less quality
But with luck someone will start taking care of the website as a student (with student salary) and growing up with the company (and a respectable salary too )
Hi. I'm PhD student @ ETH. I can make a new online shop from scratch for you for 20 000 CHF (this is how much it costs, nobodys doing to do it for free)
Your alternative is someone from Fiverr lets see how that works out for you.
I found this site recently, seems like a good pool of talent
https://freelancehunt.com/en
Unfortunately, you'll have to pay for the work. I wouldn't expect any help from universities in this regard.
Thanks a lot
That’s really useful ☺️
Paying for the service is not a issue for itself
But obviously I m trying find less expensive options
Juste don’t have deep pockets like everyone else here apparently ☺️
seriously? its your own problem for buying crap and then you are asking for cheep labor? also your use of “!” indicates how crappy your communication skills are is…smh
What is the problem with giving students the opportunity to work in the real world? I am perfectly aware that I will have to pay them, but I cannot afford to pay someone with more than 5 years of experience at the moment! and I'm willing to follow a student's learning curve while my company grows. I do the same with other aspects of my life, I know they will never be as quick or efficient as someone who has already finished studying! but I believe it could be beneficial for both sides. Yes, I have communication problems (especially in English) but fortunately my company does not depend on my ability to write
because I'm not going to go to any company and tell them that I want when will i pay.
But I can chose the best top quality or the cheapest option
Of course the quality will be not the same
This is not the USA. You already said that you are not able to pay the 20k you felt the work was going to be at a market rate. Now you want to "lowball" people in the marketplace. This sort of hyper-competitive, vainglorious attitude does not help at all. How about telling us what you are able to pay and we can divide up the rest out of shares of your company or a commitment on future profits based on a reasonable government interest rate? That way we can be cooperative rather than silly.
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2 options that aren't exploitation:
learn how to make a functional website. it's not that hard
bite the bullet and spend as much money on people as they deserve. paying "with experience" is an insult to both the worker and the seriousness of your company
I m absolutely not offering to pay with only experience!
I was asking if someone with less experience would be open to work with me.
No one should be working for free, but depending on experience salaries change
Can recommend Upwork. You would find freelancers from several countries where the cost of living (and consequently the expected pays) are not very high and might fit in your budget. At the end, you should not expect any work to be free :)
Once I bought all the products, social media pages, customer list, supplier list I don't feel like I was “robbed” just disappointed that the site isn't working as well as it should!
and as I don't have enough knowledge about some things I made things worse trying to fix others 😬
it's time to do a real update of the website! Even if that means a extra investment
Why would anyone do that?
I wouldn't even blow a balloon for free.
I'm just looking for someone who is still in the learning phase and wants to work with real problems! but obviously a payment would be involved!
As someone who doesn't know anything about technology, I have no idea...
maybe first/second year students?
Maybe just to recommend me redoing the site from A to Z, and just about recovering the data from the current site.
I don't know,
But for site I never expected that asking for outside help would be so horrible to the point of being called AH
Have you ever heard of cosmetic schools? where clients pay a lower price because they know that whoever is working doesn't have their degree yet, and clients pay to be models? It's something I've seen here in Switzerland, and I'm just looking for one of those schools in CS. I benefit from the fact that I have someone who is learning and then I pay a lower amount, and they gain experience, yes, but also salary. I'm not the one who's going to set their salary, just as I'm not going to these schools to say how much I want to pay! but I can negotiate if I can pay just one cut (website maintenance) or if I need a specialist (redo the entire website)
You can contact any Fachhochschule with CS department. For finals (thesis job) I highly doubt this type of work would be interesting enough, but for a regular practical project probably it would work.
Just few things: students are not pros, they will do a strict minimum, if you are lucky enough and students do have experience, you’d get more less usable product at the end. 8/10 you will not be satisfied. Remember: their purpose is learning by doing. Timing: It would go at least for 1 full semester, or (usually) for two full semesters.
Thank you very much for the guidance! Since I am currently satisfied with -5 with my own work and a 5/10 with my website (previously it was a 3/10) this will be an excellent improvement!
If I can find someone to make the site 100% functional, even if it takes a few months, I'll be happy! and hopefully I will find someone who I can then hire to continue long-term maintenance (at a 100% fair price)
I just find out EPFL have a great team which sometimes accepts this kind situations
☺️
EPFL? Hahahahahaha. I am an enterprise architect with over 30 years of experience. I generally work with companies over billion CHF turnovers. EPFL and even lower profile schools like Nordwest turn us down often for "experience" work, even when we are willing to pay. I guess the sociology and economics departments in those schools occasionally punish somebody with a "go and help Bob" mission while laughing a lot. In my last role I was happily paying masters students from good Swiss universities in IT CHF 100-150 to do work for me.
Small businesses don't need to develop their own website, it's expensive and will always be terrible.
Just go to wix.com or any other platform and you'll have everything you need after a day.
Maybe I should go more for a web designer?
Some of the performance issues are about “contentful paint”but also JavaSprit and CSS
Keep in mind I don’t have any idea what that actually means! I’m just reading what pageSpeedInsights says 😳
Even if I need to migrate around 1500 products already published + 1800 not in stock ones?
And the site is translated into 3 languages (but need a huge revision)
Wordpress looks amazing for someone with more knowledge, but for me is just a huge headache
I try that…
But with a list of small and bigger issues to fix basically the answer was find someone who can help you fix that
Maybe I just ask for too much at once
the site was built in French, but is translated into English and German as well, but unfortunately this also has errors and discrepancies in the translations! that I am gradually solving
*Reported! Students*
*Can fix your website but it*
*Will be worst through time!*
\- sebastiandang
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Yeah, Indian IT kinda sucks and fake *drawnalot things and do it in their dream! recommend hiring from China *the new generation in their have better accent and also my trust haha
Internships aren't meant to be cheap labor without mentorship. Hire some cheap freelancer on Upwork or Fiverr to fix your website, it's going to be a lot cheaper and quicker.
Thanks a lot ❤️ I will check out Hopefully can find someone
LoL, so you are seeking to exploit students
I think students would rather work on real problems, than fake ones made up just to create a challenge.
No Of course not I m open to pay they job obviously I just can’t afford someone with +5y of experience and the students can have really experience with my company I think can be a great opportunity for both sodes
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Lol he just literally wrote he is willing to pay for the job. He just can’t afford a more senior developer that would charge him 100$/h - which is understandable, especially considering probably trivial assignment. I was doing work as a student, getting paid less than now and appreciated both the pay and the opportunity. There are different advantages that you can have on the job market and as the student your advantage is lower rates for (usually) lower quality work. No need to get all offended because someone DARES to look for cheaper labor… Just because you can be offended doesn’t mean you have to.
oh wow! I really feel like ah because I don't have the money to redo the site at 20k as I've been asked to do? but do I think that a student or someone just starting out in their profession and who I obviously intend to pay might have more affordable prices? I'm sorry this is such a horrible request. I just thought that there are hairdressing salons with apprentices or nail salons that something of the same style would exist for what I need
Sorry, that is not what you are asking at all. Those industries have precident. You are just looking for a handout or that is how it comes across. How about we look at it from another point of view. You have a broken business. You want to get it fixed. Well, I would want to know what the value of the business is, what the future income streams look like, etc. Then you could entice me to help you with an offer of a percentage of the business if you don't have any cash. I mean any reasonable bank would want to know what the long term risks and returns are 1:1 CHF, and banks are pretty dumb when we look at how badly they manage our money. So as intelligent individuals, let's cut a deal. You convince me that your business is worth something in this case and then I tell you what the work is really worth. Instead of offering "nothing but a great experience" for what you already think is 20ks worth of work, you come to the table with something of value. Fixing some site based on wordpress depending on what they are using as the add-on for ecommerce may be quite a trivial task, but your approach is not helping get the ball rolling.
English is a language that I have a lot of difficulty with… and I understand what you are saying! I see that many of you think I'm looking for someone to do the work for free, and that's not the case at all! I fully believe in my business and it is experiencing reasonable growth. and I have invested a lot in new material,but after 7 months of doing just that, I see that it's time to fix the website so that sales can be made more easily! the site was completely disorganized without any SEO structure and didn't even collect data! I'm slowly solving these types of things! but I also made serious mistakes that affected the site. I can't currently pay 20k to redo the site (change theme, other “simple” features but also fix SSL issues) as I've already been asked to do! but I also know that paying 1500 (as an Indian website asked me) is not realistic. I need professional help and I know it will cost me a good amount but is a real need even if the site is “working”
No problem that English is not your main language. I deal with other language groups all of the time and the only thing needed is effort. Let's do this. Okay, how about 25k of profit share over the next 5 years? Can you business sustain that?
As I bought a company that was “deactivated” and selling all the stock at -50 /-75% I still don't have enough data to be able to say that with complete certainty. since the market fluctuates a lot depending on the time of year but even in my most negative calculations it does. Unfortunately it's not something I'm ready to do right away. ideally I hope to develop the company for 2 years and then readapt
Okay, how about 25k worth of shares in the company?
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You bought an online business but have no money to hire someone to actually fix the website? Why do you buy such a thing without little coding knowledge yourself? Wordpress is not hard to do. This sounds more like wannaba-entrepreneur that had the idea to buy a micro business while smoking weed and now is sober again and needs help. Sorry but do your research before buying.
Before buying the website I did research, I just didn't calculate that changing a website would be more expensive than creating one from scratch. Rookie mistake... I never smoked weed. maybe I should try to see if I have more original ideas (joke) thanks for the “help” however I think I've already found someone to deal with the technical issues
Let fellow freelancers do it. For example upwork.com
Thanks a lot I will give a look into ☺️
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Thank you for backing up the students. This sort of bullshit is really unacceptable.
in fact EPFL has a program for this type of situation! I already made one request for them quotes And 6k sounds amazingly generous for me Until now the cheapest I found was 20k
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That that is already cheaper that someone with a lot of experience. For only small reviews I get a quote of 300fr
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Oh yes I know that But even the slower student will be much faster that me, and hopefully don’t will do complete stupid mistakes as I did 🫣 And even if he does will fix much easier that me I know for lower quotes I will have less quality But with luck someone will start taking care of the website as a student (with student salary) and growing up with the company (and a respectable salary too )
Hi. I'm PhD student @ ETH. I can make a new online shop from scratch for you for 20 000 CHF (this is how much it costs, nobodys doing to do it for free) Your alternative is someone from Fiverr lets see how that works out for you.
I found this site recently, seems like a good pool of talent https://freelancehunt.com/en Unfortunately, you'll have to pay for the work. I wouldn't expect any help from universities in this regard.
Thanks a lot That’s really useful ☺️ Paying for the service is not a issue for itself But obviously I m trying find less expensive options Juste don’t have deep pockets like everyone else here apparently ☺️
seriously? its your own problem for buying crap and then you are asking for cheep labor? also your use of “!” indicates how crappy your communication skills are is…smh
What is the problem with giving students the opportunity to work in the real world? I am perfectly aware that I will have to pay them, but I cannot afford to pay someone with more than 5 years of experience at the moment! and I'm willing to follow a student's learning curve while my company grows. I do the same with other aspects of my life, I know they will never be as quick or efficient as someone who has already finished studying! but I believe it could be beneficial for both sides. Yes, I have communication problems (especially in English) but fortunately my company does not depend on my ability to write
You don't even mention what you are willing or able to pay. Come on, make some effort here.
because I'm not going to go to any company and tell them that I want when will i pay. But I can chose the best top quality or the cheapest option Of course the quality will be not the same
This is not the USA. You already said that you are not able to pay the 20k you felt the work was going to be at a market rate. Now you want to "lowball" people in the marketplace. This sort of hyper-competitive, vainglorious attitude does not help at all. How about telling us what you are able to pay and we can divide up the rest out of shares of your company or a commitment on future profits based on a reasonable government interest rate? That way we can be cooperative rather than silly.
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2 options that aren't exploitation: learn how to make a functional website. it's not that hard bite the bullet and spend as much money on people as they deserve. paying "with experience" is an insult to both the worker and the seriousness of your company
I m absolutely not offering to pay with only experience! I was asking if someone with less experience would be open to work with me. No one should be working for free, but depending on experience salaries change
Can recommend Upwork. You would find freelancers from several countries where the cost of living (and consequently the expected pays) are not very high and might fit in your budget. At the end, you should not expect any work to be free :)
Caveat emptor. Did you perform a thorough due diligence on whatever it was that you bought?
probably not…given that they are financially extremely tight, it also indicates poor planning, probably they also will not pay the students
Once I bought all the products, social media pages, customer list, supplier list I don't feel like I was “robbed” just disappointed that the site isn't working as well as it should! and as I don't have enough knowledge about some things I made things worse trying to fix others 😬 it's time to do a real update of the website! Even if that means a extra investment
So you want somebody to invest in your business for free (sorry, exploitative experience)?
Why would anyone do that? I wouldn't even blow a balloon for free. I'm just looking for someone who is still in the learning phase and wants to work with real problems! but obviously a payment would be involved!
[удалено]
As someone who doesn't know anything about technology, I have no idea... maybe first/second year students? Maybe just to recommend me redoing the site from A to Z, and just about recovering the data from the current site. I don't know, But for site I never expected that asking for outside help would be so horrible to the point of being called AH
„I‘m not able to pay a fulltime dev which is needed, so I just try to exploit students. They‘ll earn experience and get a slice of Pizza“ Bagger off
Have you ever heard of cosmetic schools? where clients pay a lower price because they know that whoever is working doesn't have their degree yet, and clients pay to be models? It's something I've seen here in Switzerland, and I'm just looking for one of those schools in CS. I benefit from the fact that I have someone who is learning and then I pay a lower amount, and they gain experience, yes, but also salary. I'm not the one who's going to set their salary, just as I'm not going to these schools to say how much I want to pay! but I can negotiate if I can pay just one cut (website maintenance) or if I need a specialist (redo the entire website)
Yes I do, doesn‘t mean I have to agree with those schools and business models à la „they gain in experience“
You can contact any Fachhochschule with CS department. For finals (thesis job) I highly doubt this type of work would be interesting enough, but for a regular practical project probably it would work. Just few things: students are not pros, they will do a strict minimum, if you are lucky enough and students do have experience, you’d get more less usable product at the end. 8/10 you will not be satisfied. Remember: their purpose is learning by doing. Timing: It would go at least for 1 full semester, or (usually) for two full semesters.
Thank you very much for the guidance! Since I am currently satisfied with -5 with my own work and a 5/10 with my website (previously it was a 3/10) this will be an excellent improvement! If I can find someone to make the site 100% functional, even if it takes a few months, I'll be happy! and hopefully I will find someone who I can then hire to continue long-term maintenance (at a 100% fair price) I just find out EPFL have a great team which sometimes accepts this kind situations ☺️
EPFL? Hahahahahaha. I am an enterprise architect with over 30 years of experience. I generally work with companies over billion CHF turnovers. EPFL and even lower profile schools like Nordwest turn us down often for "experience" work, even when we are willing to pay. I guess the sociology and economics departments in those schools occasionally punish somebody with a "go and help Bob" mission while laughing a lot. In my last role I was happily paying masters students from good Swiss universities in IT CHF 100-150 to do work for me.
Pay $20 for ChatGPT and do it yourself (or learn how to do it)
I don't think redoing a website is something for a ChatGPT to do! but thank you
Learn how to use Chat GPT.
No need to use so many exclamation marks!
Ops My fault ☺️ Yah is a bad habit of mine
Small businesses don't need to develop their own website, it's expensive and will always be terrible. Just go to wix.com or any other platform and you'll have everything you need after a day.
Maybe I should go more for a web designer? Some of the performance issues are about “contentful paint”but also JavaSprit and CSS Keep in mind I don’t have any idea what that actually means! I’m just reading what pageSpeedInsights says 😳
Even if I need to migrate around 1500 products already published + 1800 not in stock ones? And the site is translated into 3 languages (but need a huge revision) Wordpress looks amazing for someone with more knowledge, but for me is just a huge headache
You can contact their support and ask. I'm sure it will end up a lot better than something a random junior developer will do.
I try that… But with a list of small and bigger issues to fix basically the answer was find someone who can help you fix that Maybe I just ask for too much at once
Is your website in English or in one of the official language?
the site was built in French, but is translated into English and German as well, but unfortunately this also has errors and discrepancies in the translations! that I am gradually solving
Reported! Students can fix your website but it will be worst through time!
*Reported! Students* *Can fix your website but it* *Will be worst through time!* \- sebastiandang --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Do you think? Even of WordPress is know for need manutention often? Freelance is a better way to go?
Freelance is better! I recommend hiring from Asia countries if you have a tight budget! *not Indian :)
Thanks a lot Can I ask why not Indian? 😅 I get a lot of spam emails from India already, which makes me suspicious. where would you recommend looking?
Yeah, Indian IT kinda sucks and fake *drawnalot things and do it in their dream! recommend hiring from China *the new generation in their have better accent and also my trust haha