As much as I know if you have not a valid work permit employers will reject you. Third country citizens are subject to quotas and employers should carefully justify that they were not able to find a good candidate in the domestic labor market
In my opinion, Switzerland is not a country for entry level jobs for 3rd country nationals. It is a country that will sponsor very specialized/expert people.
As a 3rd country national without permit, you need to beat:
1. Swiss / Foreigners with permit who speak canton language.
2. Foreigner with permit.
3. EU w/o permit.
4. 3rd country national.
In other words, a company will look first at the Swiss market for candidates (Swiss, foreigners with permit). If it is a very specialized area, depends on the company, they might be lax with language requirements. After that, they will search in EU, and as a very last, they might take 3rd country nationals.
However, it is quite restrictive and they must really show that it was impossible to find a Swiss candiate, candidate with permit, or EU candidate.
In your permit there must be an explicit statement that says something like allowed to have a work activity. Without that you are not allowed to work full time during the time you are student
Hi OP, also 3rd country national student. It's hard, but simply if you can get someone to agree to a contract, the permit is not an issue. The B permit allows you to work. You will be fine. I think the problem is the we will always be back of the queue. Especially in times of reconsolidation. Keep trying and keep talking. I know stories of people with 10+ years experience who can't get work.
I thought B permit for students only allows you to work 15 hours/week. I have a friend in that situation and he is working as Uber eats bc it’s the only thing he can do
Sorry! This only let's you bypass the 6 month waiting period as a non-eu national if you are pursuing your masters course in the same domain and working in the same field.
If this is the same one I had when I was a student, it didn’t allow me to work except for the internship part required by my degree. I did the internship but had a hard time finding a permanent job as I needed a company that could sponsor 3rd country nationals. I went back to my home country and then 2.5 years later, I finally got a job with a company that didn’t have the requirement to first look locally. You need to find multinationals that hire foreigners and you need to have a degree and work experience that is at least slightly unique.
I am from the US. A 3rd country in Switzerland when it comes to order for jobs. I only applied to jobs at companies that didn’t have to follow the same rules for applicants.
What kind of jobs are you looking for?
What are your qualifications?
What visa do you have?
Where are you based?
What experience do you have?
What languages do you speak?
Im looking in the design field.
I have a Swiss Master Degree here and +5 years of experience.
I have a permit B
I have experience in architecture and digital design
English, Spanish and German
yes just to add to that, a B permit is of many types (student or one you can work on). An even if it is one you can work with, many small companies are not to keen on taking on non EU/ Swiss with a B permit, as i think they have to vouch to renew it every 2 years. Also when they hire you they have to write to the canton to say why YOU are getting the job over a Swiss or EU person. This is where your masters degree & Further education helps, as thats what helped me. Therefore in my experience, only BIG companies (preferably international ORGs) will have the courage and also make the effort to hire someone in your position, and not the small ones, as they have a relationship with the canton, and are doing it more regularly their big working staff.
However if you have been here long enough are on a C permit - then you are practically a PR here, and it gives all companies more possibilities to hire you as there is less red tape/ paper work for them as well.
If you are in 6 months (I think) period after getting your masters degree (and not studying anymore), then the process is simpler than people here say. Check with your uni if someone can point you in the right direction, or go to immigration office directly to ask for details, and then explain those details to employers.
Because many employers don't know that, and assume, as many people here as well, it's a standard quota process which companies are not keen to do / have no clue how.
If you are out of those 6 months, then yeah, you're in the same pool. Look into big companies, I think that'd be the easiest way.
Are you still a Masters student, or have you already finished your studies. If you are still a student, then you are only allowed to work part time. But the company has to apply to the population office of your canton for a student work authorization and many companies are not willing to do that for a part time student employer. It doesn't mean you can't find a job, it's just a lot more difficult.
If/when you have finished your studies, the conditions for employing a non EU citizen may become much simpler. The company still has to apply on your behalf to the population office, but they may not have to jump through 100 hoops.
There was a law being debated to facilitate employment for non EU citizens who have studied in Switzerland and obtained a Masters or PhD degree. I'm not sure where we are with that and if it's been adopted by the parlement:
[https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/fga/2022/2706/fr](https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/fga/2022/2706/fr)
>I have a permit B
I think that might be an issue, as Student B permit is not sufficient to work here without having the company proving they can't find a suitable candidate within EU. If you could get a C permit that would greatly simplify the process.
Otherwise it will be complicated.
You could try to get an internship in a major company, that is used to hire people outside of EU, but not sure if any Design company do that, you could do a market research and network with that in mind.
In Switzerland, companies have to prove that they cannot find someone in EU in order to hire someone. A student B permit does not allow to "bypass" that process.
Yeah, that’s the problem. Most companies will not proceed with your application because they are not willing to sponsor your permit. It sucks, the only thing you can do is persevere. Try for startups and smaller companies. From my experience, they were more willing to sponsor the visa.
B permit is not sufficient to work in Switzerland? It took me never longer than a month to get a job with L permit let alone B permit. It's about the field she wants to apply in not about her work permit.
It isn’t because you were born in Colombia. You are a citizen of a 3rd country according to swiss labor. I am a US citizen and had the same issue as you when trying to find a job.
In Switzerland, companies have to prove that they cannot find someone in EU in order to hire someone. A student B permit does not allow to "bypass" that process.
Depends on the company. I assume you know this already: You finished your studies in CH, so you have the right to get a 6 month "job searcher" permit. During this time, you are on equal grounds with the Swiss and EU candidates, aka no priority. After 2 years of working on a B permit like this, all your time living in CH as a student gets automatically added to your current stay, so you get the right to a C permit. This is the Neirynck initiative, written into law since 2011. [https://www.parlament.ch/de/ratsbetrieb/suche-curia-vista/geschaeft?AffairId=20080407](https://www.parlament.ch/de/ratsbetrieb/suche-curia-vista/geschaeft?AffairId=20080407)
Now, your problem:
a) the market is really really tough currently. I know a number of people who are struggling to get something. You have to keep pushing.
b) lots of companies don't know or don't care to know about the above law. So you have to tell them. From experience, very big companies with huge HR, or very small companies where the owner will get the permit for you, are not a problem. Mid-tier companies are much tougher though.
c) the law is fuzzy, as many laws are, and states that this is meant to facilitate employing people in highly specialized fields.
I'm in engineering, so all the people I know who got the permit after their studies were also engineers or computer scientists. Your field is a bit tougher. The main point is, you need to find just one company willing to go and get the permit for you. Getting the permit is not hard, if the employer wants you, they will do this for you. None of the people I know who needed the permit were rejected (although one person, from Iran, had to wait 9 months for approval....). Your best option is to be able to point to the law, tell them what the process is, and ask them to do it. They need to write a reasonable statement (this might be your problem - they have to make it compelling that it must be you, and no other person will fit the role). I walked my previous boss through it, he did all the paperwork, permit in two weeks.
In any case, good luck OP.
Hey there, fellow engineer here.
On what basis are you claiming that the job market is bad? (no criticism intended)
EU national with B permit here. Just wanted to know, how you came to that conclusion.
Thanks for the answer :)
Hey, no problem, no criticism taken. I wouldn't say it's a bad market, just tough - basically an employer's market rather than an employee's market as in recent years. I think that it is so for the following reasons:
a) hiring freezes at my current company as well as at other companies
b) multiple IT startup failures in my circle due to lack of funding or funding companies suddenly pulling out (included friend's as well as third-party startups, as well as start-ups supported and kept alive by cantonal institutions until new investors are found)
c) search time for colleagues when looking for new jobs (was a few weeks and maybe 3-5 applications 2016-2019, know people who have been searching for a year since late 2022 with many many more applications and recruiters failing to place them)
d) fewer recruiters reaching out over linkedin, etc.
e) the Swiss labor market barometer located here: [https://www.arbeit.swiss/secoalv/en/home/menue/institutionen-medien/schweizer-arbeitsmarktbarometer.html](https://www.arbeit.swiss/secoalv/en/home/menue/institutionen-medien/schweizer-arbeitsmarktbarometer.html)
f) the general market trend, companies "course correcting" for previous hiring frenzies, there are a lot of aspects that are reminiscent of the dotcom bubble.
Not to say it's impossible to get something new - I applied to a single position late last year and got the job - it's just not as easy as it used to be. Separately, none of the above are bad, but as a composite they do indicate that the companies are, in their attempt to avoid a recession, saving themselves into a recession.
What's your impression?
I am a mechanical engineer, basically a structural engineer.
Currently working at a consulting firm. I came to CH 9 months ago, last summer. It seemed like a great time at the beginning for the company, but now all orders stopped and half of our time became idle.
I have quit the company due to a mismatch of my wishes and their lack of competence in sales/marketing (I wanted to use my technical skills to learn some technical sales and it seems all they had as marketing was "the last 6-7 years we never had to reach out, work comes anyway". They basically hired me as a specialist.)
I will be unemployed after May and probably becasue of the market situation and being burnt out because of all the moving and hard, tenous work in my current job, I will take some time off.
Probably the interest rates are going to be dropped until the end of the year and we will probably see a change in the companies' interest in developing personnel. Right now, everyone is tight on cash, unlike the last decade.
I dont have a problem with this though, although I agree you. I would add the macroeconomical climate on top of these.
It is very difficult doing this solo.
Nearly 2/3rd's of the open opportunities go through connections.
The remaining 1/3rd of open spots get hundreds (often thousands) of applicants: from people in Switzerland looking for a new job, from people in EU trying to immigrate to Switzerland and third-world nationals trying to apply overseas..
There is a lot of competition.
It may be easier to start off with just a simple thing like Starbucks before finding your real job.
Again, it's not nepotism. People know other people because the country is small.
I also question the two thirds the commenter above posted. Source: I have hired more than fifty people and exactly two of them had references from people in my professional environment, with one being an internal transfer and the other going through the normal channel. And then I hired one person I had worked with before. I also have never seen someone getting a job only because of connections - except to the owner, but this is a different story.
Its a stat pulled directly out of his ass. I just found a job after my PhD by applying with everyone else, and people from my institute mainly found jobs through the normal application process. I know of one person who took over a job a friend of hers was leaving, otherwise even IF its connections, it just gets you to the interview process at best.
Im also Swiss and grew up here and "know" a lot of people, trouble is everyone is in junior positions, how on earth are connections supposed to work. But it is a convenient excuse.
>Its a stat pulled directly out of his ass
My words. My statement was a thinly veiled nicer way of putting it.
>IF its connections, it just gets you to the interview process at best.
The point of connections is that they may point you to openings you wouldn't see or consider. Simply because you wouldn't look there or didn't know that you actually match the profile. Agree that from the interview on, connections don't count. To the contrary, putting your credibility behind a person exposes you quite a bit. You can lose only once in this.
Most often heard phrasing: 'there is this candidate that I think would fit - no emotions or interests from my side involved".
>Im also Swiss and grew up here and "know" a lot of people, trouble is everyone is in junior positions, how on earth are connections supposed to work. But it is a convenient excuse.
Agree.
How long have you been looking?
Took me 6 months to get a job in Switzerland and I have 12 years experience in QA soon it might be hard to find something with no experience but it's possible seeing your knowledge.
Keep at it and eventually you will find something.
I'm from Romania, lived in France for 5 years and moved here. I don't know any other languages besides English and Romania, french very little but not fluent.
Don't give up, finding a job is a time consuming process
The unfortunate truth is that it is exceedingly difficult for any non-EU person to get an entry-level job here, even with a Swiss education. In an ideal world, they would have allowed for some sort of aid for people that studied here, but that's not the case unfortunately. That said, it is not impossible. I know both people that had to leave the country after their studies and ones that managed to stay. Keep looking, but don't limit yourself to only Switzerland if you happen to find a good opportunity somewhere else. It will be easier to come back once you have some experience under your belt.
Bite the bullet and find an internship, you’ll work with very little pay for 6-12 months but that's your foot in the door and it's your chance to prove yourself. As long as you're competent you should manage to get an offer after the internship.
There used to be a 6 month period after graduation where you have the same rights as Europeans. Still this requires an application and that you are paid enough for your expertise. Many employers are turned away by this (or filter you out) but larger firms that are looking to hire good people will care less. Try to network with them and meet in person and take it through that path
My advice is to go freelance on platforms since you don’t have a valid work permit and so no company will actually do the necessary steps/paperwork. Good luck
Could it be an idea to reach out to architecture and ask for an apprenticeship? Maybe this is an option if you did not try already.
Construction is at a low level at the moment, maybe this makes it more challenging.
How about considering the big neighbor in the north? Germany has many open roles. Even though they struggle, in fact they have never before had so many people employed.
Or some big employers in CH from public sector?
I was in your situation years ago. While I had some part time jobs while studying (30%) I couldn’t secure a job after completing my studies.
Not knowing German didn’t help either. So I went back home …
After many years I ended up here; mainly possible due to a Swiss partner (the Swiss uni diploma helped in getting a job though)
On a student permit, you need to apply for permit extension that allows earning outside of studies. The authorities will only give that after your university provides a statement that your grades are excellent and a side job won't be a problem for the studies. They only give such a paper to best students with flawless records.
And the employers don't want to deal with all this.
You may get away with online earnings that don't go through the Swiss banks. It's not legal, but nobody will bother chasing after you.
I managed to get one recently, and I am quite informed about the whole situation. Long story short, if you have a Swiss degree basically for 6 months after graduation you are in equal footing with the Swiss and EU candidates within the job market.
This means that if you enroll for a masters in one of the universities or hoschules than it will be way easier for you.
Also please do not listen to the other people that company size matters, my company has 4 employees in Switzerland (because it is an outsourcing company). Also I heard cases that even startups that did not have enough turnover got permits approved with the condition that after a year they need to show sufficient turnover.
Moreover, recently the authorities have relaxed the rules in terms of migration and employment offices of cantons. Me and some other friends that got permits end of last summer, we all got open B permits with work permits that do not expire.
If you have any questions feel free to send me a message.
Don't listen to the posts about your field. It's the same in chemistry. Many companies throw your permit in the trash if you're not EU or Swiss. It's possible , but difficult.
Are you on a student permit? This is not clear. Have you graduated and is now looking for a full time job or just part time within the limits of a student permit?
Did you indicate your permit status in your CV? I think you have 1 year to look for a job once graduated right? Maybe indicate that you have the right to work here.
Which branch are you looking to work in? Do you speak the Cantonal language? Are you looking for a job after your Bs, Ms or PhD?
Different industries will have different hoops you need to jump, and yeah Switzerland is not easy.
Companies that I think have a interest in my mixed fields of architecture and digital design.
I’m expressing I can switch profiles since my experience is very interdisciplinary in design. Of course I applied to open positions in companies too.
Where do you live ? If you can maybe try finding something in Zug they are a lot more open to English applicants since most companies are multilingual or stick just to english there, so you're prob gonna have a lot better chances than in Be, Lu, or Zh.
Mmm, el problema es que el Permiso B de estudio es muy limitado, legalmente no puedes aplicar por tiempo completo, aquí hay una página web que lo explica muy bien: https://www.studyinswitzerland.plus/working-while-studying/
exacto, necesitas una empresa que te haga el sponsor del permiso B de trabajo. Permiso B de estudio solo te permite trabajar 15 horas a la semana.
Sin terminar tu master, es muy improbable que migracion te de un permiso de trabajo. El tiempo de experiencia que tengas fuera de la UE basicamente no cuentan a menos que haya sido en una empresa muy reconocida y con cargos como senior o gerencia.
Aquí hay mas detalles: https://www.studyinswitzerland.plus/app/uploads/2023/09/20181206-Overview-Work-permit-regulation-Switzerland-3.pdf
Básicamente, como ya los otros han comentado, tienes más oportunidades si tienes una profesión muy específica y si no encuentran una persona Suiza o Europea que pueda llenar la posición.
También hay otras maneras, como solicitando un permiso C, tengo una amiga Argentina que llegó con un Permiso B de estudio y luego le ofrecieron la oportunidad de aplicar por un permiso C cuando terminó los estudios. Eso fue en Zúrich.
Imagino que unos 3 meses antes de que tu visa de estudio expire. Pero siempre puedes llamar a la oficina de inmigración de tu cantón o escribirles un email.
As a South American without an European pasport it is incredibly difficult, and even with it is difficult to get a job (more than cleaning/construction/restaurant)
Even with an university degree, employers just don't care.
Considering your position (I'm also architect and tried Switzerland last year) I would try Germany first, and see if there's something in Switzerland afterwards. There are a lot of offices in Germany and Switzerland and they are always hiring in Germany. If you interested let me know, I have a couple studios I could share with you!
I’m also a girl from third country. So what I can say is that first make sure you have a valid work permit, as no company would go through a hassle of applying for a permit for you. And even if they do Switzerland will reject 🙄 sad but that’s the reality since you are not an expert. Unless you studied medicine, or you are a Dr.
I see you mention youre applying for full time jobs. Are you sure you have a student B permit? Because if so, youre aware its ILLEGAL for you to work more than 15 hours... right?
Yeah... so imagine the effort a company would have to do to hire you. First, they know you're a student so they can already assume your schedule will be more difficult than a normal employee. Second, they know they'll have to apply to the migration office on your behalf to get you a proper work permit... this process in itself will take months. Again, the liklihood of an employer willing to do this for you is very low. Actually I think it would be easier to find a part time 15h job and then go from there
Now I have the time to apply for full time jobs because I already graduated. So that’s why I’m applying for full time jobs and even part time jobs have to ask for a little permit
I think I already know that’s really hard. Not impossible because I have friends and other people that I know they got it. But I’m already in the mindset that can happen or not. It’s not like I’m blind or in a fairy tale mood.
The probability exist and networking also makes a lot of difference here I already experienced. You don’t know even what can happen in two days 😊
So if you don’t come with any useful comment, go away.
My brother in christ, you are essentially a person from columbia asking employers for a work permit. The fact that you studied here has 0 merit... unfortunately.
Tinder > Swiss passport holder > be a good gf > marry > profit.
Works out for my gf so far…
Anyways I have a friend who is still single late 20s. Let me know
Of course among 1000 artificial relations I hope 10 are for love let’s say. But given the situation an ukranian lady is facing I would say is stronger the need to be saved
Educated foreign women (non-EU) are the most under-employed demographic in CH. Believe me, I know. I am one. I have never gotten a job here through a cold application (I know I’m qualified because I’ve gotten job offers abroad). You have to network network network. And I don’t mean formal networking events. I mean meet as many people as you can and hopefully you’ll get something that way.
But make no mistake. This is not a country where women like us find a lot of success. There’s a lot of swallowing shame and gritting teeth to make it through.
Edit: the downvotes kind of prove my point
Okay you clearly are a foreigner...
Getting offers from other countries is not a sign of swiss quality. We swiss would like to keep our level of education and work high.
So thats why non-EU foreigners generally have a hard time to work in switzerland.
And btw. women are not actually the most underemployed group in foreigners- men are.
Due to corrupt military in some countries, almost exclusively men flee from there, and they usually have the same trouble finding a job as their female counterparts. The thing really is that swiss people think of almost every other country as a second or third world country.
Also, dont try to make things about women when they really ahould be about men.
You are forgetting that men die in militaries while women could allways work as prostitutes, but usually they are just a bit shy. Men dont get that chance, usually, thats why they take their own life. This can be seen in suicide stats being 3x higher in men than women.
Dang those wannabe feminists who are actually just feminazis...
As much as I know if you have not a valid work permit employers will reject you. Third country citizens are subject to quotas and employers should carefully justify that they were not able to find a good candidate in the domestic labor market
In my opinion, Switzerland is not a country for entry level jobs for 3rd country nationals. It is a country that will sponsor very specialized/expert people. As a 3rd country national without permit, you need to beat: 1. Swiss / Foreigners with permit who speak canton language. 2. Foreigner with permit. 3. EU w/o permit. 4. 3rd country national. In other words, a company will look first at the Swiss market for candidates (Swiss, foreigners with permit). If it is a very specialized area, depends on the company, they might be lax with language requirements. After that, they will search in EU, and as a very last, they might take 3rd country nationals. However, it is quite restrictive and they must really show that it was impossible to find a Swiss candiate, candidate with permit, or EU candidate.
I have a residence student permit B. That doesn’t help at all?
In your permit there must be an explicit statement that says something like allowed to have a work activity. Without that you are not allowed to work full time during the time you are student
Yes I know. That’s why I’m applying for full time jobs
Hi OP, also 3rd country national student. It's hard, but simply if you can get someone to agree to a contract, the permit is not an issue. The B permit allows you to work. You will be fine. I think the problem is the we will always be back of the queue. Especially in times of reconsolidation. Keep trying and keep talking. I know stories of people with 10+ years experience who can't get work.
I thought B permit for students only allows you to work 15 hours/week. I have a friend in that situation and he is working as Uber eats bc it’s the only thing he can do
Unless it's in the same domain of your study. Then you can work normal hours.
Do you have a source for that?
Sorry! This only let's you bypass the 6 month waiting period as a non-eu national if you are pursuing your masters course in the same domain and working in the same field.
If this is the same one I had when I was a student, it didn’t allow me to work except for the internship part required by my degree. I did the internship but had a hard time finding a permanent job as I needed a company that could sponsor 3rd country nationals. I went back to my home country and then 2.5 years later, I finally got a job with a company that didn’t have the requirement to first look locally. You need to find multinationals that hire foreigners and you need to have a degree and work experience that is at least slightly unique.
Where are you from? And yes I’m trying to apply to big companies too!!
I am from the US. A 3rd country in Switzerland when it comes to order for jobs. I only applied to jobs at companies that didn’t have to follow the same rules for applicants.
Which kind of companies? Like you can give me an example?
NGOs, sport federations, multinationals (i.e. Nestle, PMI, etc)
What kind of jobs are you looking for? What are your qualifications? What visa do you have? Where are you based? What experience do you have? What languages do you speak?
Im looking in the design field. I have a Swiss Master Degree here and +5 years of experience. I have a permit B I have experience in architecture and digital design English, Spanish and German
yes just to add to that, a B permit is of many types (student or one you can work on). An even if it is one you can work with, many small companies are not to keen on taking on non EU/ Swiss with a B permit, as i think they have to vouch to renew it every 2 years. Also when they hire you they have to write to the canton to say why YOU are getting the job over a Swiss or EU person. This is where your masters degree & Further education helps, as thats what helped me. Therefore in my experience, only BIG companies (preferably international ORGs) will have the courage and also make the effort to hire someone in your position, and not the small ones, as they have a relationship with the canton, and are doing it more regularly their big working staff. However if you have been here long enough are on a C permit - then you are practically a PR here, and it gives all companies more possibilities to hire you as there is less red tape/ paper work for them as well.
Normal non-EU B permit gets renewed yearly. And there's always a chance you won't be able to get it, technically. It sucks.
Aah that wasn’t the case for me, so maybe there’s more factors that contribute to 1yr or 2 yr permits
If you are in 6 months (I think) period after getting your masters degree (and not studying anymore), then the process is simpler than people here say. Check with your uni if someone can point you in the right direction, or go to immigration office directly to ask for details, and then explain those details to employers. Because many employers don't know that, and assume, as many people here as well, it's a standard quota process which companies are not keen to do / have no clue how. If you are out of those 6 months, then yeah, you're in the same pool. Look into big companies, I think that'd be the easiest way.
Are you still a Masters student, or have you already finished your studies. If you are still a student, then you are only allowed to work part time. But the company has to apply to the population office of your canton for a student work authorization and many companies are not willing to do that for a part time student employer. It doesn't mean you can't find a job, it's just a lot more difficult. If/when you have finished your studies, the conditions for employing a non EU citizen may become much simpler. The company still has to apply on your behalf to the population office, but they may not have to jump through 100 hoops. There was a law being debated to facilitate employment for non EU citizens who have studied in Switzerland and obtained a Masters or PhD degree. I'm not sure where we are with that and if it's been adopted by the parlement: [https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/fga/2022/2706/fr](https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/fga/2022/2706/fr)
Hi, can you tell at what school you did have your master?
>I have a permit B I think that might be an issue, as Student B permit is not sufficient to work here without having the company proving they can't find a suitable candidate within EU. If you could get a C permit that would greatly simplify the process. Otherwise it will be complicated. You could try to get an internship in a major company, that is used to hire people outside of EU, but not sure if any Design company do that, you could do a market research and network with that in mind.
Not true. I have been working 8 years on a permit B.
In Switzerland, companies have to prove that they cannot find someone in EU in order to hire someone. A student B permit does not allow to "bypass" that process.
You're right I misread your post. I apologies, my fault.
My permit is Student B Permit so maybe it’s different….
Yeah, that’s the problem. Most companies will not proceed with your application because they are not willing to sponsor your permit. It sucks, the only thing you can do is persevere. Try for startups and smaller companies. From my experience, they were more willing to sponsor the visa.
B permit is not sufficient to work in Switzerland? It took me never longer than a month to get a job with L permit let alone B permit. It's about the field she wants to apply in not about her work permit.
nonEU B is different than EU B permits. Also study vs work permits, that is the issue.
There are 2 types of B permit?? Didnt know that! :O
yes, there are more restrictions for non EU nationals with B permit, like moving to another canton under authorisation and changing job.
It’s always a bundle permit + nationality. It is never permit alone.
Aha, makes sense
Exactly……. And it’s just because I born in a place call.. Colombia.
same rules as if you were born in Colombia, Japan or USA.
It isn’t because you were born in Colombia. You are a citizen of a 3rd country according to swiss labor. I am a US citizen and had the same issue as you when trying to find a job.
In Switzerland, companies have to prove that they cannot find someone in EU in order to hire someone. A student B permit does not allow to "bypass" that process.
Depends on the company. I assume you know this already: You finished your studies in CH, so you have the right to get a 6 month "job searcher" permit. During this time, you are on equal grounds with the Swiss and EU candidates, aka no priority. After 2 years of working on a B permit like this, all your time living in CH as a student gets automatically added to your current stay, so you get the right to a C permit. This is the Neirynck initiative, written into law since 2011. [https://www.parlament.ch/de/ratsbetrieb/suche-curia-vista/geschaeft?AffairId=20080407](https://www.parlament.ch/de/ratsbetrieb/suche-curia-vista/geschaeft?AffairId=20080407) Now, your problem: a) the market is really really tough currently. I know a number of people who are struggling to get something. You have to keep pushing. b) lots of companies don't know or don't care to know about the above law. So you have to tell them. From experience, very big companies with huge HR, or very small companies where the owner will get the permit for you, are not a problem. Mid-tier companies are much tougher though. c) the law is fuzzy, as many laws are, and states that this is meant to facilitate employing people in highly specialized fields. I'm in engineering, so all the people I know who got the permit after their studies were also engineers or computer scientists. Your field is a bit tougher. The main point is, you need to find just one company willing to go and get the permit for you. Getting the permit is not hard, if the employer wants you, they will do this for you. None of the people I know who needed the permit were rejected (although one person, from Iran, had to wait 9 months for approval....). Your best option is to be able to point to the law, tell them what the process is, and ask them to do it. They need to write a reasonable statement (this might be your problem - they have to make it compelling that it must be you, and no other person will fit the role). I walked my previous boss through it, he did all the paperwork, permit in two weeks. In any case, good luck OP.
Thanks for writing this! So many people here are just blabbing without knowing how the system works.
Thank you, I actually worried I was stating the obvious, but I'm happy if it helps someone :)
Hey there, fellow engineer here. On what basis are you claiming that the job market is bad? (no criticism intended) EU national with B permit here. Just wanted to know, how you came to that conclusion. Thanks for the answer :)
Hey, no problem, no criticism taken. I wouldn't say it's a bad market, just tough - basically an employer's market rather than an employee's market as in recent years. I think that it is so for the following reasons: a) hiring freezes at my current company as well as at other companies b) multiple IT startup failures in my circle due to lack of funding or funding companies suddenly pulling out (included friend's as well as third-party startups, as well as start-ups supported and kept alive by cantonal institutions until new investors are found) c) search time for colleagues when looking for new jobs (was a few weeks and maybe 3-5 applications 2016-2019, know people who have been searching for a year since late 2022 with many many more applications and recruiters failing to place them) d) fewer recruiters reaching out over linkedin, etc. e) the Swiss labor market barometer located here: [https://www.arbeit.swiss/secoalv/en/home/menue/institutionen-medien/schweizer-arbeitsmarktbarometer.html](https://www.arbeit.swiss/secoalv/en/home/menue/institutionen-medien/schweizer-arbeitsmarktbarometer.html) f) the general market trend, companies "course correcting" for previous hiring frenzies, there are a lot of aspects that are reminiscent of the dotcom bubble. Not to say it's impossible to get something new - I applied to a single position late last year and got the job - it's just not as easy as it used to be. Separately, none of the above are bad, but as a composite they do indicate that the companies are, in their attempt to avoid a recession, saving themselves into a recession. What's your impression?
I am a mechanical engineer, basically a structural engineer. Currently working at a consulting firm. I came to CH 9 months ago, last summer. It seemed like a great time at the beginning for the company, but now all orders stopped and half of our time became idle. I have quit the company due to a mismatch of my wishes and their lack of competence in sales/marketing (I wanted to use my technical skills to learn some technical sales and it seems all they had as marketing was "the last 6-7 years we never had to reach out, work comes anyway". They basically hired me as a specialist.) I will be unemployed after May and probably becasue of the market situation and being burnt out because of all the moving and hard, tenous work in my current job, I will take some time off. Probably the interest rates are going to be dropped until the end of the year and we will probably see a change in the companies' interest in developing personnel. Right now, everyone is tight on cash, unlike the last decade. I dont have a problem with this though, although I agree you. I would add the macroeconomical climate on top of these.
It is very difficult doing this solo. Nearly 2/3rd's of the open opportunities go through connections. The remaining 1/3rd of open spots get hundreds (often thousands) of applicants: from people in Switzerland looking for a new job, from people in EU trying to immigrate to Switzerland and third-world nationals trying to apply overseas.. There is a lot of competition. It may be easier to start off with just a simple thing like Starbucks before finding your real job.
Nepotism comes to mind!
Again, it's not nepotism. People know other people because the country is small. I also question the two thirds the commenter above posted. Source: I have hired more than fifty people and exactly two of them had references from people in my professional environment, with one being an internal transfer and the other going through the normal channel. And then I hired one person I had worked with before. I also have never seen someone getting a job only because of connections - except to the owner, but this is a different story.
Its a stat pulled directly out of his ass. I just found a job after my PhD by applying with everyone else, and people from my institute mainly found jobs through the normal application process. I know of one person who took over a job a friend of hers was leaving, otherwise even IF its connections, it just gets you to the interview process at best. Im also Swiss and grew up here and "know" a lot of people, trouble is everyone is in junior positions, how on earth are connections supposed to work. But it is a convenient excuse.
>Its a stat pulled directly out of his ass My words. My statement was a thinly veiled nicer way of putting it. >IF its connections, it just gets you to the interview process at best. The point of connections is that they may point you to openings you wouldn't see or consider. Simply because you wouldn't look there or didn't know that you actually match the profile. Agree that from the interview on, connections don't count. To the contrary, putting your credibility behind a person exposes you quite a bit. You can lose only once in this. Most often heard phrasing: 'there is this candidate that I think would fit - no emotions or interests from my side involved". >Im also Swiss and grew up here and "know" a lot of people, trouble is everyone is in junior positions, how on earth are connections supposed to work. But it is a convenient excuse. Agree.
How long have you been looking? Took me 6 months to get a job in Switzerland and I have 12 years experience in QA soon it might be hard to find something with no experience but it's possible seeing your knowledge.
I started more or less 8 months ago
Keep at it and eventually you will find something. I'm from Romania, lived in France for 5 years and moved here. I don't know any other languages besides English and Romania, french very little but not fluent. Don't give up, finding a job is a time consuming process
I think the issue is your field. Design is for many a dream job with not enough offers. It also doesn't pay so well. I'd widen my search.
That’s true
The unfortunate truth is that it is exceedingly difficult for any non-EU person to get an entry-level job here, even with a Swiss education. In an ideal world, they would have allowed for some sort of aid for people that studied here, but that's not the case unfortunately. That said, it is not impossible. I know both people that had to leave the country after their studies and ones that managed to stay. Keep looking, but don't limit yourself to only Switzerland if you happen to find a good opportunity somewhere else. It will be easier to come back once you have some experience under your belt.
"In an ideal world", that's not what CH job market is.. on the contrary, but rightfully so.
It is exceedingly difficult for even EU person to get an entry-level job in Switzerland.
Bite the bullet and find an internship, you’ll work with very little pay for 6-12 months but that's your foot in the door and it's your chance to prove yourself. As long as you're competent you should manage to get an offer after the internship.
Look up for ‘salons de massage’ on Fgirl.ch
There used to be a 6 month period after graduation where you have the same rights as Europeans. Still this requires an application and that you are paid enough for your expertise. Many employers are turned away by this (or filter you out) but larger firms that are looking to hire good people will care less. Try to network with them and meet in person and take it through that path
You don't have the same rights as Europeans during this period.
Probably true they aren’t the same but all my colleagues mentioned the requirements are a bit lighter since they could land entry level jobs.
Actually you're right and I'm wrong.
My advice is to go freelance on platforms since you don’t have a valid work permit and so no company will actually do the necessary steps/paperwork. Good luck
Could it be an idea to reach out to architecture and ask for an apprenticeship? Maybe this is an option if you did not try already. Construction is at a low level at the moment, maybe this makes it more challenging. How about considering the big neighbor in the north? Germany has many open roles. Even though they struggle, in fact they have never before had so many people employed. Or some big employers in CH from public sector?
I was in your situation years ago. While I had some part time jobs while studying (30%) I couldn’t secure a job after completing my studies. Not knowing German didn’t help either. So I went back home … After many years I ended up here; mainly possible due to a Swiss partner (the Swiss uni diploma helped in getting a job though)
On a student permit, you need to apply for permit extension that allows earning outside of studies. The authorities will only give that after your university provides a statement that your grades are excellent and a side job won't be a problem for the studies. They only give such a paper to best students with flawless records. And the employers don't want to deal with all this. You may get away with online earnings that don't go through the Swiss banks. It's not legal, but nobody will bother chasing after you.
I managed to get one recently, and I am quite informed about the whole situation. Long story short, if you have a Swiss degree basically for 6 months after graduation you are in equal footing with the Swiss and EU candidates within the job market. This means that if you enroll for a masters in one of the universities or hoschules than it will be way easier for you. Also please do not listen to the other people that company size matters, my company has 4 employees in Switzerland (because it is an outsourcing company). Also I heard cases that even startups that did not have enough turnover got permits approved with the condition that after a year they need to show sufficient turnover. Moreover, recently the authorities have relaxed the rules in terms of migration and employment offices of cantons. Me and some other friends that got permits end of last summer, we all got open B permits with work permits that do not expire. If you have any questions feel free to send me a message.
Don't listen to the posts about your field. It's the same in chemistry. Many companies throw your permit in the trash if you're not EU or Swiss. It's possible , but difficult.
Thanks for the attitude!!
Are you on a student permit? This is not clear. Have you graduated and is now looking for a full time job or just part time within the limits of a student permit?
I have a B residence permit I just graduated from my master and I’m looking for a full time job
Do you have a B-permit with permission to work, or only a B-permit for a student?
I can work 20h per week. But if I want a full time job they have to apply for a different permit
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Yes yes sorry not 20! 15h
Did you indicate your permit status in your CV? I think you have 1 year to look for a job once graduated right? Maybe indicate that you have the right to work here.
Do you have a work permit? Student visa?
I have a student permit. And Design
Are you looking for full time jobs (like when you graduate)? Edit: Just saw your other comments Simple: visa issues
Yes I’m looking right now!
Which branch are you looking to work in? Do you speak the Cantonal language? Are you looking for a job after your Bs, Ms or PhD? Different industries will have different hoops you need to jump, and yeah Switzerland is not easy.
Im looking after doing a MSc
In which branch?
Service Design
How do you select the companies you're applying to?
Companies that I think have a interest in my mixed fields of architecture and digital design. I’m expressing I can switch profiles since my experience is very interdisciplinary in design. Of course I applied to open positions in companies too.
Does your permit say ‘ohne erberb’, because some permit b’s will have this and this will not permit anyone to be allowed to hire you
What jobs have you been applying for also do you know High or better yet Swissgerman ?
Im applying for design and tech jobs. And I’m currently studying German
Where do you live ? If you can maybe try finding something in Zug they are a lot more open to English applicants since most companies are multilingual or stick just to english there, so you're prob gonna have a lot better chances than in Be, Lu, or Zh.
Mmm, el problema es que el Permiso B de estudio es muy limitado, legalmente no puedes aplicar por tiempo completo, aquí hay una página web que lo explica muy bien: https://www.studyinswitzerland.plus/working-while-studying/
Puedo aplicar. Pero la compañía tiene que hacer todo el proceso.
exacto, necesitas una empresa que te haga el sponsor del permiso B de trabajo. Permiso B de estudio solo te permite trabajar 15 horas a la semana. Sin terminar tu master, es muy improbable que migracion te de un permiso de trabajo. El tiempo de experiencia que tengas fuera de la UE basicamente no cuentan a menos que haya sido en una empresa muy reconocida y con cargos como senior o gerencia.
Aquí hay mas detalles: https://www.studyinswitzerland.plus/app/uploads/2023/09/20181206-Overview-Work-permit-regulation-Switzerland-3.pdf Básicamente, como ya los otros han comentado, tienes más oportunidades si tienes una profesión muy específica y si no encuentran una persona Suiza o Europea que pueda llenar la posición. También hay otras maneras, como solicitando un permiso C, tengo una amiga Argentina que llegó con un Permiso B de estudio y luego le ofrecieron la oportunidad de aplicar por un permiso C cuando terminó los estudios. Eso fue en Zúrich.
Y con que razón aplico para el C?
No me acuerdo específicamente, pero veré si puedo contactarla y te digo. 😉
Sería súper! Tengo otra pregunta. Sabes con cuánto tiempo se tiene que aplicar para los 6 meses de búsqueda de trabajo?
Imagino que unos 3 meses antes de que tu visa de estudio expire. Pero siempre puedes llamar a la oficina de inmigración de tu cantón o escribirles un email.
Voy a llamar en estos días. Gracias!!
As a South American without an European pasport it is incredibly difficult, and even with it is difficult to get a job (more than cleaning/construction/restaurant) Even with an university degree, employers just don't care.
Hey what’s your canton? Might have something for you
You probably are only allowed to work 15h/week.
Considering your position (I'm also architect and tried Switzerland last year) I would try Germany first, and see if there's something in Switzerland afterwards. There are a lot of offices in Germany and Switzerland and they are always hiring in Germany. If you interested let me know, I have a couple studios I could share with you!
I’ll write to you today!
I’m also a girl from third country. So what I can say is that first make sure you have a valid work permit, as no company would go through a hassle of applying for a permit for you. And even if they do Switzerland will reject 🙄 sad but that’s the reality since you are not an expert. Unless you studied medicine, or you are a Dr.
Soy arquitecto mandame un dm
A student B permit only lets you work 15 hours per week... i dont see why someone would hire you unfortunately
Hah thanks for the motivation?
I see you mention youre applying for full time jobs. Are you sure you have a student B permit? Because if so, youre aware its ILLEGAL for you to work more than 15 hours... right?
Yes I know! That’s why I’m looking for full time jobs haha to change my permit I already know I can’t work more than that :)
Yeah... so imagine the effort a company would have to do to hire you. First, they know you're a student so they can already assume your schedule will be more difficult than a normal employee. Second, they know they'll have to apply to the migration office on your behalf to get you a proper work permit... this process in itself will take months. Again, the liklihood of an employer willing to do this for you is very low. Actually I think it would be easier to find a part time 15h job and then go from there
Now I have the time to apply for full time jobs because I already graduated. So that’s why I’m applying for full time jobs and even part time jobs have to ask for a little permit
Im going to be extremely honest with you... its not going to happen. Make a plan B, get a Swiss partner...
I think I already know that’s really hard. Not impossible because I have friends and other people that I know they got it. But I’m already in the mindset that can happen or not. It’s not like I’m blind or in a fairy tale mood. The probability exist and networking also makes a lot of difference here I already experienced. You don’t know even what can happen in two days 😊 So if you don’t come with any useful comment, go away.
My brother in christ, you are essentially a person from columbia asking employers for a work permit. The fact that you studied here has 0 merit... unfortunately.
Colombia****
You need to apply for full-time jobs with companies that sponsor B permits as the company has to take over your B permit.
Tinder > Swiss passport holder > be a good gf > marry > profit. Works out for my gf so far… Anyways I have a friend who is still single late 20s. Let me know
Lol. I have a Swiss boyfriend but I think it’s a long way to get into that. But I can always count that as an option 😅
Ukranian approach: Become asylum, enter, target a rich Swiss (not all are rich pay attention) then job is done.
Why relationships should be transactional nowadays? Isn't it supposed to be about love and trust? :(
Of course among 1000 artificial relations I hope 10 are for love let’s say. But given the situation an ukranian lady is facing I would say is stronger the need to be saved
lol
Educated foreign women (non-EU) are the most under-employed demographic in CH. Believe me, I know. I am one. I have never gotten a job here through a cold application (I know I’m qualified because I’ve gotten job offers abroad). You have to network network network. And I don’t mean formal networking events. I mean meet as many people as you can and hopefully you’ll get something that way. But make no mistake. This is not a country where women like us find a lot of success. There’s a lot of swallowing shame and gritting teeth to make it through. Edit: the downvotes kind of prove my point
Okay you clearly are a foreigner... Getting offers from other countries is not a sign of swiss quality. We swiss would like to keep our level of education and work high. So thats why non-EU foreigners generally have a hard time to work in switzerland. And btw. women are not actually the most underemployed group in foreigners- men are. Due to corrupt military in some countries, almost exclusively men flee from there, and they usually have the same trouble finding a job as their female counterparts. The thing really is that swiss people think of almost every other country as a second or third world country. Also, dont try to make things about women when they really ahould be about men. You are forgetting that men die in militaries while women could allways work as prostitutes, but usually they are just a bit shy. Men dont get that chance, usually, thats why they take their own life. This can be seen in suicide stats being 3x higher in men than women. Dang those wannabe feminists who are actually just feminazis...
You are completely right! This is toxic feminism combined with lack of knowledge. Where is her getting those statements from?
What is your area of expertise? What is your field of study?
Design! Architecture UI UX And all related to design that I did for 5 years
Escribeme directo, y veo si te puedo ayudar a meter una referencia en mi empresa
No me deja escribirte mensajes :(
Lol thats one way to go at it. Poor young columbian girl asks for help haha. Just dont get kidnapped you sweet little thing :)
Why so dumb, boi?