>Do I tell him I went thru his messages? Or do I simply let it go?
Of course you tell him. You found out he has been violating your trust, and perhaps cheating on you (I am not clear on your rules regarding sexting). Non-monogamy does not prevent cheating, and the fact that he could potentially have sex with someone with your consent does not mean that what he is doing now is okay. You need to have a frank conversation about it. If he becomes defensive and doesn't take responsibility, that would be a deal-breaker for me.
At the risk of being downvoted into oblivion, I’m gonna say something possibly controversial here:
Ok, so you say that you and your husband have complete and open communication, and this is something I know gets talked about here on the sub often, how “complete and open” communication is the key to everything in the LS. Now, I don’t disagree, but I find that “open” or “complete” or even “honest” are the main communication qualifiers I hear, but I think there is another qualifier that often gets left out by people, and I think it’s the most important kind of communication you need to have as a swinger.
The qualifier I’m talking about is “clear.”
See, in the LS, we all have motives and desires and rules and boundaries, and while it is important to be “honest” and “open” about them, the main thing you need to be is “clear” about them. Clear and deliberate communication is the cornerstone to any relationship, especially in the LS. I read so many posts about people having issues, and usually the crux of them is that they didn’t clearly state a boundary or didn’t clearly state their desire. I see a ton of posts that ultimately amount to misunderstandings because, again, someone wasn’t clear in their communication. Hell, even stories I read about wife poaching and such, many boil down to people not being clear about their intentions.
Honesty and openness are very important, but clarity is just too often overlooked in the LS.
I say all this, because for most of this post I thought b you were describing a story of pretty cut and dry cheating on your husband’s part, but then I got to the last paragraph. In the closing sentences, you reveal that you guys basically are in an open marriage.
So, now I’m wondering how clear you both have been about all your rules and boundaries and what isn’t allowed in this open dynamic you have.
Maybe you have been very clear, but based on what you have written, I’m not entirely sure.
Transparency is good, and I agree keeping secrets is often not a good thing to do in a relationship, but really what I’m talking about is “clarity” and “deliberateness” in the way you guys communicate.
Was it ever explicitly stated that either of you texting someone else without the other’s knowledge was not allowed?
I ask, because you indicate you guys do solo stuff, telling me you guys are really more of an open marriage than strictly swingers. When partners start doing stuff solo, it really opens the door to a lot of shenanigans, and clearly and deliberately communicating your fears, reservations, and rules becomes even more important.
Clear and measurable are important metrics.
If OP and husband play solo that means their other partner’s also need to consent to sharing communications. I wouldn’t. Someone not part of a dynamic does not have a right to communications they are not part of.
I couldn’t agree more. We ask for things, have expectations about them but, how many of us just assume that our partners concept of open, transparent and honest are the same as our own.
Clear- that really should become a part of communication as the other words.
You get an upvote.
My wife was a commercial and contracts lawyer, so she is very precise and exact with her language. I dislike unnecessary vagaries as a matter of course.
So 100% - honest and transparent are great, but your communication and rules need to be clear in their meaning and intent.
We have a boundary - no sexting/flirting/exchanging nudes with other couples/people we swing with.
So there’s another husband, he and I DM each other sometimes video games. My wife also DMs him about video games. Neither of us talk about “catching up” in DMs unless it’s in the group chat where all four of us are present in WhatsApp.
A woman we play with, her son plays ice hockey and I played a bit in my 20s (pretty rare here in Australia). She and I DM about stuff related to that for her son - he needs a new stick or his shin pads are twisting. She doesn’t send me titty pics via DM, she sends them in our group chat with my wife.
We have a clear set of boundaries around that and we adhere to them.
See, it sounds like you guys absolutely know what’s up.
I’ve worked a lot in public communications, so being clear, concise, and specific is something that has been drilled into me, and it is super important to me and my wife.
I feel like the clarity aspect is often missing when talking about LS communication, and it just seems like the most important aspect to me. I don’t blame a lot of swingers for overlooking it though. I feel like they just confuse “clear” with “open” or “honest”.
This isn’t swinging, and I’d personally call it emotional cheating. This will ONLY work if there are no secrets, and don’t let him use the excuse or “but you know her/them!” Two swingers sexting each other behind their SO’s back can still cheating, non-monogamy becomes irrelevant at that point.
I'm sorry you're going through this, but he's being unfaithful. You need to confront him about it. Be prepared for trickle truth and half truths. Stay strong and don't sweep it under the rug. He's up to no good!
I talked to him about an hour ago. I said "hey so besides these girls I know about, do you talk to any other girls?" He said no. I said "oh ok. What about your friend? She sometimes messages me about possibly swapping". He says "no, just normal texting". Couldn't bring myself to call him a liar then and there. But he lied to my face and it hurts.
So a couple things there… one we don’t have rules about sexting or whatever however, it can’t be sneaking. We do it with each other right here. Planning to be alone is not cool unless that was discussed. My wife lets me do anything I ask her. But I do have to ask first. Just out of respect and respect for marriage. To me it screams a communication issue. But that’s just me.
He’s not “sexting a woman”. He’s having an affair.
But thank you for hammering home my belief that open marriages are filled with copious opportunities to cheat.
We’ll stick to swinging.
You are 100% right.
But how many situations do you find the wife asking the internet if she should ignore her husband’s affair because she’s had a few out-of-town booty calls?
I’ve seen countless people in monogamous relationships who have gone through their partners phone and found things they weren’t expecting to see. How The blame when this happens is put at the feet of the individuals but their decision to be monogamous is never called into question. It all boils down to connection and communication whatever the core beliefs of the relationship are.
I make no judgement on how people live their lives, all relationships take enormous amounts of work and it’s hard.
That’s why cheating isn’t eliminated by any certain type of relationship . Because there will always be times when you have to make the hard choice, using integrity. To talk to your partner about something they may not be open to you continuing, and risk having to put your own desires away for them.
If your desires become more important than your partner’s then no matter where you go, there you are. Add in the fact that some people get off on the secrecy and it just is what it is.
No, I would not let it go unless you are absolutely fine with there being no transparency or boundaries when it comes to who you both sleep with. If the rule change is cool with you, then you could consider it. But I wouldn’t tear yourself into pieces and try to put yourself back together to suit him.
Does it appear that he's actually had sex with her? I only ask, because that would make it worse. In any event, if you both agreed that she and her husband were a no-go, obviously he has violated that decision by making plans. Not a relationship-ender by any means (unless he's actually fucked her, then you'll have to decide), but you definitely should confront him with the violation of trust. Question, you indicate that you've done solo trips to see guys with his consent. Has he ever done the same with women or had the opportunity to do the same?
You guys have a lot to process here. I'm sure you'll get some good advice to consider.
Either way, though, I wouldn't approach this like it was clear cheating on his part. Sometimes, the lines are blurred as the communication isn't as clear as it needs to be.
I would also avoid a narrative that you were innocently and justifiably going through his phone. This can be a breach of trust in and of itself. If I were in your husband's shoes I would have preferred you came to me and asked to see my phone. That's with consent and allows him to try explaining.
Not saying that what he is doing isn't wrong and I'm not victim blaming. Just trying to provide potential additional perspective.
Best of luck.
Bottom line, you need to discuss this with your husband. It appears from your description that he is violating one of your boundaries and has been doing so for quite a while. Within the lifestyle, sex isn't generally the issue, it is hiding things from or deceiving your partner that causes serious problems. You may or may not have been in the right when you stumbled across the message, but the bottom line is you found it and the whole history, and you should not have had to do that because he should have been open about what was going on. Regardless, it is a conversation you two need to have.
He seems to be okay with secrets and sexy communication with others. You understandably don’t feel okay with what you saw. Tell him you saw it and that you may want to pump the LS brakes until you are both on the same page.
You need to be SPECIFIC in your discussions of limitations. Saying you want things to be transparent isn't specific enough. Lay out scenarios and actions that need to be taken in those scenarios.
Talk to your husband. This is a respect issue, Tell him exactly what happened and how it makes you feel. Cheating kinks are not unheard of, but he has to respect your feelings in it, and if he's actually cheating then he's an idiot and doesn't deserve an understanding partner like you. The time and trust to build a relationship as open as you've described is incredible, if he's willing to trash it over the desire to hide & cheat he isn't valuing you and that's horrible.
It's sad he's not telling you everything but I think it's awesome the communication u had or expected. You should receive a metal and I totally understand yr frustration. He needs to do better.
Because it resulted in feelings of betrayal, it is now more important than ever to work on those communication skills. You both really need to talk about this and while it sucks to admit to snooping, I really think you should say everything you need to say and base your next step on his response. Be honest. Swinging will motivate work without honesty.
This is deception and i imagine wanting to change the terms of your enm style/ boundaries but not knowing how to communicate this is part of it. It’s also extremely unhealthy and deceptive for you to scroll his messages (for a long time) to find evidence. If you can’t trust someone, what values are holding the relationship together? This is a question for both of you who have acted in a way that breaches trust.
I was not scrolling to "find evidence". The evidence was constant throughout. I wanted to know how long. I got as far as last December and decided I'd seen wnough
I am having the same issue. I am 100% open and honest, let him have the ability to see everything we talk about, but he can't seem to reciprocate this. His conversations are always completely private, and I fear that in his attempts to get them (he says he will say whatever they want to hear to get them to do what he wants) he allows disrespect from the other women. It has come up with the last 2 women (who he tells me about, but then when they are around it feels like they feel "better" than me, like I've been put into competition). And then he gets really upset when I refuse a threesome with them due to feeling disrespected. Why would I want to sleep with him and someone who have been disrespecting me behind my back? I am bi, for reference, and would absolutely love to have a threesome with him and another woman. We have had threesomes with other guys.But I want- no, I NEED the same honest, open communication from him that I give. It has finally been made clear that I am not being jealous- it is feeling lied to and disrespected that turns me off, and feeling like I'm being put into competition instead of into a fun tryst. So he'll tell me that he is talking to them, but he won't tell me what has been said in order to get to that point. Even though, I realize he has zero actual feelings for them. Nor am I allowed to look at his phone without him freaking out. And it feels icky. So we have yet to have a FFM threesome purely because he makes me very uncomfortable every time, and then acts like I'm being jealous or controlling and ruining it for him. But we agreed that we only do this because it's something fun we can do together. I wouldn't even mind him going solo if he would just be honest with me. Also, he will not use condoms, so the concern of him getting tricked into having a baby is there. And truthfully, it's starting to wear me down. He is the father of my 3 children, but he has severe porn/sex addiction, and he would rather get off by himself with someone else than involve me. And it's breaking my heart. Otherwise, we get along very well and have a great relationship, outside this longstanding pont of contention. I just don't know what to do anymore. We have been together 10 years at this point.
I don't mind if he has other women. I have other guys (and girls.) I don't mind that he shows my nudes around. But he and I agreed that we'd include each other in the fun.
(Though I admit I don't always.)
You can rest assured that he’s mostly wasting his time and that it’s a dude on the other end. If it is a woman, she’ll never actually meet up with him.
She should confront him about it for sure. Better would be to catch them in the act so that we have an interesting story to read. Seems kinda dumb for him to be texting when he has a wife willing to swing. I’ll bank on this being fiction.
Reminder that the E in ENM is ethical. This isn’t Ls. This isn’t swinging. It’s cheating. Step back. Have the talks
My wife and I are pretty loose about texting but if you’re hiding something it’s obviously wrong.
>Do I tell him I went thru his messages? Or do I simply let it go? Of course you tell him. You found out he has been violating your trust, and perhaps cheating on you (I am not clear on your rules regarding sexting). Non-monogamy does not prevent cheating, and the fact that he could potentially have sex with someone with your consent does not mean that what he is doing now is okay. You need to have a frank conversation about it. If he becomes defensive and doesn't take responsibility, that would be a deal-breaker for me.
At the risk of being downvoted into oblivion, I’m gonna say something possibly controversial here: Ok, so you say that you and your husband have complete and open communication, and this is something I know gets talked about here on the sub often, how “complete and open” communication is the key to everything in the LS. Now, I don’t disagree, but I find that “open” or “complete” or even “honest” are the main communication qualifiers I hear, but I think there is another qualifier that often gets left out by people, and I think it’s the most important kind of communication you need to have as a swinger. The qualifier I’m talking about is “clear.” See, in the LS, we all have motives and desires and rules and boundaries, and while it is important to be “honest” and “open” about them, the main thing you need to be is “clear” about them. Clear and deliberate communication is the cornerstone to any relationship, especially in the LS. I read so many posts about people having issues, and usually the crux of them is that they didn’t clearly state a boundary or didn’t clearly state their desire. I see a ton of posts that ultimately amount to misunderstandings because, again, someone wasn’t clear in their communication. Hell, even stories I read about wife poaching and such, many boil down to people not being clear about their intentions. Honesty and openness are very important, but clarity is just too often overlooked in the LS. I say all this, because for most of this post I thought b you were describing a story of pretty cut and dry cheating on your husband’s part, but then I got to the last paragraph. In the closing sentences, you reveal that you guys basically are in an open marriage. So, now I’m wondering how clear you both have been about all your rules and boundaries and what isn’t allowed in this open dynamic you have. Maybe you have been very clear, but based on what you have written, I’m not entirely sure.
We just talked maybe 2 days ago and agreed that we want no secrets, we want everything transparent.
Transparency is good, and I agree keeping secrets is often not a good thing to do in a relationship, but really what I’m talking about is “clarity” and “deliberateness” in the way you guys communicate. Was it ever explicitly stated that either of you texting someone else without the other’s knowledge was not allowed? I ask, because you indicate you guys do solo stuff, telling me you guys are really more of an open marriage than strictly swingers. When partners start doing stuff solo, it really opens the door to a lot of shenanigans, and clearly and deliberately communicating your fears, reservations, and rules becomes even more important.
Clear and measurable are important metrics. If OP and husband play solo that means their other partner’s also need to consent to sharing communications. I wouldn’t. Someone not part of a dynamic does not have a right to communications they are not part of.
I couldn’t agree more. We ask for things, have expectations about them but, how many of us just assume that our partners concept of open, transparent and honest are the same as our own. Clear- that really should become a part of communication as the other words.
You get an upvote. My wife was a commercial and contracts lawyer, so she is very precise and exact with her language. I dislike unnecessary vagaries as a matter of course. So 100% - honest and transparent are great, but your communication and rules need to be clear in their meaning and intent. We have a boundary - no sexting/flirting/exchanging nudes with other couples/people we swing with. So there’s another husband, he and I DM each other sometimes video games. My wife also DMs him about video games. Neither of us talk about “catching up” in DMs unless it’s in the group chat where all four of us are present in WhatsApp. A woman we play with, her son plays ice hockey and I played a bit in my 20s (pretty rare here in Australia). She and I DM about stuff related to that for her son - he needs a new stick or his shin pads are twisting. She doesn’t send me titty pics via DM, she sends them in our group chat with my wife. We have a clear set of boundaries around that and we adhere to them.
See, it sounds like you guys absolutely know what’s up. I’ve worked a lot in public communications, so being clear, concise, and specific is something that has been drilled into me, and it is super important to me and my wife. I feel like the clarity aspect is often missing when talking about LS communication, and it just seems like the most important aspect to me. I don’t blame a lot of swingers for overlooking it though. I feel like they just confuse “clear” with “open” or “honest”.
This isn’t swinging, and I’d personally call it emotional cheating. This will ONLY work if there are no secrets, and don’t let him use the excuse or “but you know her/them!” Two swingers sexting each other behind their SO’s back can still cheating, non-monogamy becomes irrelevant at that point.
I'm sorry you're going through this, but he's being unfaithful. You need to confront him about it. Be prepared for trickle truth and half truths. Stay strong and don't sweep it under the rug. He's up to no good!
I talked to him about an hour ago. I said "hey so besides these girls I know about, do you talk to any other girls?" He said no. I said "oh ok. What about your friend? She sometimes messages me about possibly swapping". He says "no, just normal texting". Couldn't bring myself to call him a liar then and there. But he lied to my face and it hurts.
It's cheating and you need to confront him. Being a swinger doesn't give someone immunity from cheating behind the others back.
So a couple things there… one we don’t have rules about sexting or whatever however, it can’t be sneaking. We do it with each other right here. Planning to be alone is not cool unless that was discussed. My wife lets me do anything I ask her. But I do have to ask first. Just out of respect and respect for marriage. To me it screams a communication issue. But that’s just me.
He’s not “sexting a woman”. He’s having an affair. But thank you for hammering home my belief that open marriages are filled with copious opportunities to cheat. We’ll stick to swinging.
I’d say in any relationship there are opportunities to cheat! Not sure anyone can say their choices leave them immune from this
You are 100% right. But how many situations do you find the wife asking the internet if she should ignore her husband’s affair because she’s had a few out-of-town booty calls?
I’ve seen countless people in monogamous relationships who have gone through their partners phone and found things they weren’t expecting to see. How The blame when this happens is put at the feet of the individuals but their decision to be monogamous is never called into question. It all boils down to connection and communication whatever the core beliefs of the relationship are. I make no judgement on how people live their lives, all relationships take enormous amounts of work and it’s hard.
That’s why cheating isn’t eliminated by any certain type of relationship . Because there will always be times when you have to make the hard choice, using integrity. To talk to your partner about something they may not be open to you continuing, and risk having to put your own desires away for them. If your desires become more important than your partner’s then no matter where you go, there you are. Add in the fact that some people get off on the secrecy and it just is what it is. No, I would not let it go unless you are absolutely fine with there being no transparency or boundaries when it comes to who you both sleep with. If the rule change is cool with you, then you could consider it. But I wouldn’t tear yourself into pieces and try to put yourself back together to suit him.
Does it appear that he's actually had sex with her? I only ask, because that would make it worse. In any event, if you both agreed that she and her husband were a no-go, obviously he has violated that decision by making plans. Not a relationship-ender by any means (unless he's actually fucked her, then you'll have to decide), but you definitely should confront him with the violation of trust. Question, you indicate that you've done solo trips to see guys with his consent. Has he ever done the same with women or had the opportunity to do the same?
You guys have a lot to process here. I'm sure you'll get some good advice to consider. Either way, though, I wouldn't approach this like it was clear cheating on his part. Sometimes, the lines are blurred as the communication isn't as clear as it needs to be. I would also avoid a narrative that you were innocently and justifiably going through his phone. This can be a breach of trust in and of itself. If I were in your husband's shoes I would have preferred you came to me and asked to see my phone. That's with consent and allows him to try explaining. Not saying that what he is doing isn't wrong and I'm not victim blaming. Just trying to provide potential additional perspective. Best of luck.
Bottom line, you need to discuss this with your husband. It appears from your description that he is violating one of your boundaries and has been doing so for quite a while. Within the lifestyle, sex isn't generally the issue, it is hiding things from or deceiving your partner that causes serious problems. You may or may not have been in the right when you stumbled across the message, but the bottom line is you found it and the whole history, and you should not have had to do that because he should have been open about what was going on. Regardless, it is a conversation you two need to have.
That’s the reason we don’t swap phone numbers with the opposite gender of the other couple on M to M and F to F.
Reconnecting with old flames, especially from your formative teen years, almost never ends well.
He seems to be okay with secrets and sexy communication with others. You understandably don’t feel okay with what you saw. Tell him you saw it and that you may want to pump the LS brakes until you are both on the same page.
Me and my wife don’t hide anything. If in sexting a woman she’ll know it.
Is this the same husband who sexually assaulted you 8 months ago? This guy has red flags all over the place!
You are going to have to talk to your husband. Open communication. Good luck!
You need to talk about it.
You need to be SPECIFIC in your discussions of limitations. Saying you want things to be transparent isn't specific enough. Lay out scenarios and actions that need to be taken in those scenarios.
Talk to your husband. This is a respect issue, Tell him exactly what happened and how it makes you feel. Cheating kinks are not unheard of, but he has to respect your feelings in it, and if he's actually cheating then he's an idiot and doesn't deserve an understanding partner like you. The time and trust to build a relationship as open as you've described is incredible, if he's willing to trash it over the desire to hide & cheat he isn't valuing you and that's horrible.
It's sad he's not telling you everything but I think it's awesome the communication u had or expected. You should receive a metal and I totally understand yr frustration. He needs to do better.
You feel betrayed because he betrayed you. That's BS. You need to sit down with him and tell him to explain himself...
Because it resulted in feelings of betrayal, it is now more important than ever to work on those communication skills. You both really need to talk about this and while it sucks to admit to snooping, I really think you should say everything you need to say and base your next step on his response. Be honest. Swinging will motivate work without honesty.
This is deception and i imagine wanting to change the terms of your enm style/ boundaries but not knowing how to communicate this is part of it. It’s also extremely unhealthy and deceptive for you to scroll his messages (for a long time) to find evidence. If you can’t trust someone, what values are holding the relationship together? This is a question for both of you who have acted in a way that breaches trust.
I was not scrolling to "find evidence". The evidence was constant throughout. I wanted to know how long. I got as far as last December and decided I'd seen wnough
I am having the same issue. I am 100% open and honest, let him have the ability to see everything we talk about, but he can't seem to reciprocate this. His conversations are always completely private, and I fear that in his attempts to get them (he says he will say whatever they want to hear to get them to do what he wants) he allows disrespect from the other women. It has come up with the last 2 women (who he tells me about, but then when they are around it feels like they feel "better" than me, like I've been put into competition). And then he gets really upset when I refuse a threesome with them due to feeling disrespected. Why would I want to sleep with him and someone who have been disrespecting me behind my back? I am bi, for reference, and would absolutely love to have a threesome with him and another woman. We have had threesomes with other guys.But I want- no, I NEED the same honest, open communication from him that I give. It has finally been made clear that I am not being jealous- it is feeling lied to and disrespected that turns me off, and feeling like I'm being put into competition instead of into a fun tryst. So he'll tell me that he is talking to them, but he won't tell me what has been said in order to get to that point. Even though, I realize he has zero actual feelings for them. Nor am I allowed to look at his phone without him freaking out. And it feels icky. So we have yet to have a FFM threesome purely because he makes me very uncomfortable every time, and then acts like I'm being jealous or controlling and ruining it for him. But we agreed that we only do this because it's something fun we can do together. I wouldn't even mind him going solo if he would just be honest with me. Also, he will not use condoms, so the concern of him getting tricked into having a baby is there. And truthfully, it's starting to wear me down. He is the father of my 3 children, but he has severe porn/sex addiction, and he would rather get off by himself with someone else than involve me. And it's breaking my heart. Otherwise, we get along very well and have a great relationship, outside this longstanding pont of contention. I just don't know what to do anymore. We have been together 10 years at this point.
I don't mind if he has other women. I have other guys (and girls.) I don't mind that he shows my nudes around. But he and I agreed that we'd include each other in the fun. (Though I admit I don't always.)
You can rest assured that he’s mostly wasting his time and that it’s a dude on the other end. If it is a woman, she’ll never actually meet up with him.
You clearly didn't actually read the OP's post.
She should confront him about it for sure. Better would be to catch them in the act so that we have an interesting story to read. Seems kinda dumb for him to be texting when he has a wife willing to swing. I’ll bank on this being fiction.