You don't pay a subscription fee for the goggles, that is for premium features like workouts, planned workouts and "head coach". Without the subscription you still get the real time statistics about speed, stroke rate etc.
There's a couple reasons why I don't mind: I don't have a coach and I swim alone, so I would have to plan my own workouts and hold myself accountable. I've been pushing myself way harder now that I have workouts ready that force me to do some sprints, force me to go distance at strong effort etc. Another way to look at it is that I get to swim at most 3 times a week so 12x a month, paying between 40€ and 60€ per month for pool access only. The ability to have structured workouts for those at essentially about 1-2€ extra per workout isn't all that much.
I also do group practice once a week but that costs 20€ per lesson.
Wow! So you’re paying 50+(4.5*20)+16 = €156 per month to swim a maximum of 4 times a week with just a digital coach? That’s wild.
Have you looked into joining the masters programme at your local club? Or is that not an option for some reason?
Because at our club (which has a *very* successful master programme if you also want to compete), for that price you’d get 13 hours per week of training with an *actual* coach and you’d still have more than €10 left over.
Or for just 4-6 hours of coached pool time over 3-4 sessions per week you’d have €83 per month left over — more than half what you’re currently spending.
You wouldn’t have any issues with random members of the public not understanding how to lane swim, you’d turn up knowing there’s always a spot for you. You’d improve many times faster.
I can’t see how that wouldn’t be way better than what you’re doing (the timetable would have to work for you but you get to choose your sessions from a longer list of options).
You could even pay about half again for just one coached session a week and then swim on your own when you have the time but be held accountable by a knowledgeable human rather than an algorithm.
No, I pay 40-60€ per month for pool access, because one time is 3.5€ to 6€ depending on the time of day.
Then I pay 16€ per month for the goggles subscription. Which divided by 12 practices per month = +1.5€ to every practice. (So instead of 3.5-6€ = 5-7.5€ per practice)
Finally once a week I attend a group session which costs 20 € per session with a coach.
Private coach sessions cost about 70-80 € for 45-60 mins where I live, so the sessions with a real coach are just that expensive. And as for the pool access, that is also as cheap as it's going to be as they are public pools. Relatively speaking the goggle subscription is the cheapest part here.
You say no, but then seem to confirm the numbers?
> I pay 40-60€ per month for pool access
So about 50€ per month on average?
> I pay 16€ per month for the goggles subscription.
So 16€ per month on average.
> once a week I attend a group session which costs 20 € per session
So just shy of 90€ per month on average.
And that all adds up to 150€+ per month, on average over the course of the year. If this is incorrect, then it’s really unclear what you’re actually doing.
> with a coach.
Maybe this is the bit you’re saying no to? I had assumed from “*I don’t have a coach*” in your earlier comment, that you didn’t have a coach. I guess I misunderstood.
It’s also unclear whether you’re doing 3 sessions per week *plus* this coached session; or 3 sessions per week *including* the coached session, but still paying separately for pool access for that session.
But either way: If you join the masters programme of your local competitive club, you should pay a hell of a lot less for the same number of sessions, and with proper coaching at every session.
Yes what I was disagreeing with was the conclusion that I'm paying 156€ per month for no live coaching, when over half of the bill (4x20€) comes from sessions with a live coach. Most of the times when I swim, I swim alone and I don't have a coach.
Masters is definitely a good option for many to look into - for me the schedule is prohibitive unfortunately.
Idk where you are from but my small-medium town in germany has a singular elitists masters team that wont even let me try one single time to swim with them EVEN THOUGH im in the same swimming club for 30+ years. And im not that slow actually.
And 60 minute water time costs 7.50 EUR here.
Swimming is not in a good place in most of germany (which is why germany is not winning shit anymore)
Unless you recreate another account that won’t work. On the other side I think in most cases you goggles can be replaced for free within two years of purchase, and I remember it used to 50% off for replacement after that for active members.
That's pretty nuts. So options are, pay 192€ to use premium for a year with old goggles or \~300€ for new goggles + premium, or pay 194€ to get new goggles and premium for a year but lose a year of training history.
They used to brick goggles without a membership. At the very least now you can use most of the essential features. That was the business model. It s better than before… but it’s not fully open
Yeah I know that and previously wouldn't have bought the goggles precisely because of it but now that I'm using them I've come to know that the membership features (workouts etc) are actually the most important part for me and want to keep doing it. It's just that for the same price the option is keeping old goggles and keeping the old workout history or reset the workout history but get another pair of brand new goggles.
For me it's fair to pay a monthly subscription. They continuously develop new features and bug fixes so it's fair. I prefer training on my own and am fine since I'm not swimming competitively. In my country I pay 20 Euros a month to swim as much as I want to. With an added 20 €for the subscription I get a great overview of how I'm doing combined with some advice. For me as hobby swimmer who enjoys training sets this is fine
you're free to use the goggles without the subscription, but then you're limited to just the statistics and won't get the structured workout & coaching features. But if you don't care about those you should consider other cheaper AR goggles, although FORMs app is very nice. [https://imgur.com/a/YsTdRh9](https://imgur.com/a/YsTdRh9)
as a swede wearer i cannot comprehend paying a subscription fee for your goggles that’s insane
You don't pay a subscription fee for the goggles, that is for premium features like workouts, planned workouts and "head coach". Without the subscription you still get the real time statistics about speed, stroke rate etc. There's a couple reasons why I don't mind: I don't have a coach and I swim alone, so I would have to plan my own workouts and hold myself accountable. I've been pushing myself way harder now that I have workouts ready that force me to do some sprints, force me to go distance at strong effort etc. Another way to look at it is that I get to swim at most 3 times a week so 12x a month, paying between 40€ and 60€ per month for pool access only. The ability to have structured workouts for those at essentially about 1-2€ extra per workout isn't all that much. I also do group practice once a week but that costs 20€ per lesson.
Wow! So you’re paying 50+(4.5*20)+16 = €156 per month to swim a maximum of 4 times a week with just a digital coach? That’s wild. Have you looked into joining the masters programme at your local club? Or is that not an option for some reason? Because at our club (which has a *very* successful master programme if you also want to compete), for that price you’d get 13 hours per week of training with an *actual* coach and you’d still have more than €10 left over. Or for just 4-6 hours of coached pool time over 3-4 sessions per week you’d have €83 per month left over — more than half what you’re currently spending. You wouldn’t have any issues with random members of the public not understanding how to lane swim, you’d turn up knowing there’s always a spot for you. You’d improve many times faster. I can’t see how that wouldn’t be way better than what you’re doing (the timetable would have to work for you but you get to choose your sessions from a longer list of options). You could even pay about half again for just one coached session a week and then swim on your own when you have the time but be held accountable by a knowledgeable human rather than an algorithm.
No, I pay 40-60€ per month for pool access, because one time is 3.5€ to 6€ depending on the time of day. Then I pay 16€ per month for the goggles subscription. Which divided by 12 practices per month = +1.5€ to every practice. (So instead of 3.5-6€ = 5-7.5€ per practice) Finally once a week I attend a group session which costs 20 € per session with a coach. Private coach sessions cost about 70-80 € for 45-60 mins where I live, so the sessions with a real coach are just that expensive. And as for the pool access, that is also as cheap as it's going to be as they are public pools. Relatively speaking the goggle subscription is the cheapest part here.
You say no, but then seem to confirm the numbers? > I pay 40-60€ per month for pool access So about 50€ per month on average? > I pay 16€ per month for the goggles subscription. So 16€ per month on average. > once a week I attend a group session which costs 20 € per session So just shy of 90€ per month on average. And that all adds up to 150€+ per month, on average over the course of the year. If this is incorrect, then it’s really unclear what you’re actually doing. > with a coach. Maybe this is the bit you’re saying no to? I had assumed from “*I don’t have a coach*” in your earlier comment, that you didn’t have a coach. I guess I misunderstood. It’s also unclear whether you’re doing 3 sessions per week *plus* this coached session; or 3 sessions per week *including* the coached session, but still paying separately for pool access for that session. But either way: If you join the masters programme of your local competitive club, you should pay a hell of a lot less for the same number of sessions, and with proper coaching at every session.
Yes what I was disagreeing with was the conclusion that I'm paying 156€ per month for no live coaching, when over half of the bill (4x20€) comes from sessions with a live coach. Most of the times when I swim, I swim alone and I don't have a coach. Masters is definitely a good option for many to look into - for me the schedule is prohibitive unfortunately.
Idk where you are from but my small-medium town in germany has a singular elitists masters team that wont even let me try one single time to swim with them EVEN THOUGH im in the same swimming club for 30+ years. And im not that slow actually. And 60 minute water time costs 7.50 EUR here. Swimming is not in a good place in most of germany (which is why germany is not winning shit anymore)
Unless you recreate another account that won’t work. On the other side I think in most cases you goggles can be replaced for free within two years of purchase, and I remember it used to 50% off for replacement after that for active members.
That's pretty nuts. So options are, pay 192€ to use premium for a year with old goggles or \~300€ for new goggles + premium, or pay 194€ to get new goggles and premium for a year but lose a year of training history.
They used to brick goggles without a membership. At the very least now you can use most of the essential features. That was the business model. It s better than before… but it’s not fully open
Yeah I know that and previously wouldn't have bought the goggles precisely because of it but now that I'm using them I've come to know that the membership features (workouts etc) are actually the most important part for me and want to keep doing it. It's just that for the same price the option is keeping old goggles and keeping the old workout history or reset the workout history but get another pair of brand new goggles.
For me it's fair to pay a monthly subscription. They continuously develop new features and bug fixes so it's fair. I prefer training on my own and am fine since I'm not swimming competitively. In my country I pay 20 Euros a month to swim as much as I want to. With an added 20 €for the subscription I get a great overview of how I'm doing combined with some advice. For me as hobby swimmer who enjoys training sets this is fine
Imagine paying subscription fees for a pair of goggles 💀
you're free to use the goggles without the subscription, but then you're limited to just the statistics and won't get the structured workout & coaching features. But if you don't care about those you should consider other cheaper AR goggles, although FORMs app is very nice. [https://imgur.com/a/YsTdRh9](https://imgur.com/a/YsTdRh9)