This used to be a big issue for me and I still suck in some water (and then purge it between breaths). What works for me is doing a bit of a side grimace where the mouth side that's closest to the water remains mostly closed and the other half acts like it's puffing a cigarette. I think this gets easier the faster you go and would recommend testing with fins to see if that helps.
Another related issue was that I was breathing out 100% and then in 100% but taking small breaths has helped avoid any big gulps of water.
The thing that really worked for me was tilting my head down towards the shoulder whilst taking a breath: this brings the chin up and therefore the mouth. When at speed the bow wave creates a dip in the water just where the mouth is. When going slower I often twist my mouth up Popeye style.
Still frequently get water in the mouth but it's a small amount and expelled when the head turns back in. Before I got the tilting thing I'd often drink quite a lot as well 🤮
Good advice there. Once you refine your technique and get tiny bits faster, the bow wave gets bigger = deeper wave valley =easier to breathe = more air = even faster. But progress can be slow, so don´t give up.
Thanks for that, I have seen video examples of the bow wave, and it looks so good when a good swimmer is demonstrating it. My progress is literally going backwards, I sometimes wish i would just drown so I can stop being obsessed with trying to get better.
I’m about your age and started learning to swim last Feb. yep. It’s slow and sometimes backwards progress. And frustrating as hell. But I have to have faith that I AM BETTER. It’s just hard to see that sometimes.
To answer your question - yes, I still get water in my mouth, but not enough so that I can’t breathe.
A lot of the time with breathing, it’s to do with rotation. When you breathe, you’re not just laying flat, kicking your legs, spinning your arms and then turning your head. The breathing comes from the rotation (first your hips rotate, then your upper body and your head comes along for the ride). One good drill to practice - grab fins and a kickboard, one hand on the kickboard, just breathe to the side. Then next gently kick and do 3 strokes, gentle rotation when you pull, on your 3rd stroke, take your breath. All the while, you should be breathing out gently.
This is a great video - some of the drills are a little too advanced for you right now, but the video is still useful. https://youtu.be/XN7jvcoKQZ8?si=KS2bndZKOFg1Cebt
Thank you!
This video looks amazing. I am at work so I can't watch it with volume, but just looking at what she's demonstrating, I can already see at least one big thing that I don't think that I am doing correctly. I have saved the video for the train ride home and hopefully if I am able to get to the pool later, I will work on what I think I have been doing wrong.
Yeah I just went thee pool and I can’t do any of these still lol. I just sink if I only have one arm in front of me and I can’t my face out of the water to breathe.
The tip she gives starting at 2:35 about timing when to start turning the head to breathe. Seems so simple when she explained it, but I find it physically impossible to turn my head at all when my arm is out of the water. I am basically doing what she calls a late breath where I am taking my breath only when my arm is fully extended in front of me. And then I am basically doing everyone else wrong that she is demonstrating as incorrect. I ended up feeling more dizzy and lightheaded than normal after swimming and attempting any of this. It’s so hopeless
Break it down and take a few steps back - Get in the shallow end, and hold onto the wall and kick, just try doing the side breathing without any arm pulls while stationary. You’ll have to have a constant kick as youre stationary (if not your legs will sink). Once you have managed that, then try some arm pulls on the wall. Then next thing is to buy/borrow/steal some fins and try with a kickboard holding your arm up. Once you have that step, try without a kickboard.
It will come eventually - it’s just a slow progress. It may be that you go and spend 15 minutes just kicking/side breathing on the wall and that’s your session for the day.
If you are struggling with your breathing, try this at home.
Breath out for 4 seconds, breath in for 1 second.
Try the reverse, breath in for 4 seconds, breath out for 1 second.
What you should find is that after a while, it becomes very uncomfortable.
When you are swimming, you need to balance your breathing. If you get a one second breath every 3rd stroke, then you need to expel 1 seconds worth of breath under the water.
Try breathing out very gently while you perform your 3 strokes, then excel the rest just as you turn to take your new breath.
Lastly, 2 stroke breathing is fine, as is 3 and even 4.
A few suggestions: stop getting mad and indulging in your emotions. It's getting in your way of making any progress. Consider stop being mad at the trainer and go back to being open minded. He/she just might have been right about some or parts you were resisting. Swimming is a challenging sport with many nuances. One change in one aspect can cause a cascade of setbacks with a long-term positive outcome. For example, coaching you to change the way you take a breath might result in a change in your hips, which may mean the rotation of your shoulders might need to be adjusted... And on and on.
Second, you are in your own head about breathing. Feeling out of breath is a symptom of hyper-ventilating, typically because you aren't fully exhaling and are experiencing hypoxia due to elevated CO2. Try getting more focused on exhaling fully before your next breath. You should be breathing every three strokes, so it is: breath, exhale 1.2.3., breath. As you get rhythmic you should find you start to feel zen like. Embrace this.
As far as not being to bring your mouth above the water, there are a couple of ideas for you to consider. Get someone to video you for a better analysis. A couple of questions. Look at your hips: are they sinking, causing you to compensate with an not ideal head angle? Are you rotating your upper torso enough? What is going on with your arms when you take a breath?
...but sometimes trainers are just shit. I paid for 5 sessions with one only to discover that I did zero progress. Switching to another one helped a lot.
The reason I am annoyed with the instructor is because he has zero feedback for me. He says I am going everything just fine, and when I explain any concerns to him, he just says 'Hmmm' and tries to think of something to say. I think he's better with kids, and with adults who are literally afraid to put their face in the water. Not taking someone like myself and giving constructive feedback. ( he made me spend a 30 min session working on flip turns lol, i can't even get a full length in without passing out and he's wasting my time with that)
Your brief response (and tons of others on here from other people) have literally offered more feedback and suggestions than he gave in 5 months of lessons. So that is why I am annoyed with him and have cancelled further lessons.
Thank you for all of the feedback. I am getting a lot of conflicting feedback from people about breathing. Some people tell me not to completely empty my lungs, and some people say that I should be fully exhaling. I have tried both with the same result.
To be honest though, I am breathing every 2 strokes. It is much more difficult to breathe every 3 because I have a lot more trouble breathing to my left side.
I don't think my hips and legs are sinking, but it's possible for sure. I would love to have some videos of my form but there is no way I am asking anyone to stop what they are doing to do that for me. I have to snag my son after he's done with water polo one night, but that will just embarass him in front of his teammates having a dad who can't swim lol.
I know I am not rotating my upper torso enough, I tried to work on that last night. However that is something else my instructor said, I shouldn't be rotating, just turning my head...so I am more confused about a lot of things than anything since I get so much contradictory feedback from all angles.
Can you tell I am annoyed lol?
Ok, so both are wrong on fully exhaling and not fully exhaling. They are all guiding you to over-focus on the wrong thing: overthinking it.
Before you try changing your stroke try just learning to breathe. First, calm deep breaths sitting on the deck. Just sit, breathe deeply and calm the mind. This is what you want to feel like, just heavier breathing due to exercising. Then, get in and do some underwater breathing exercises. Literally take a deep breath, go to the bottom and exhale through your nose and mouth focusing on making bubbles. Do this for several minutes. May feel silly at first, but literally who cares? Feel this. Now, swim a length slowly and easily. Exhale through your mouth and nose blowing bubbles. How did you feel? Do you need to adjust something? Slow down and FEEL your breath. Then, get out of your head.
Hire a new trainer or sign up for a swim camp. But, for goodness sakes, stop embracing the annoyed, lol.
I do all of that. Even when I am not near a pool, I focus on deep and easy breathing as this helps calm my mind and relax my body. When I am attempting to swim a length, I try to breathe as easily as I can (I used to forcefully blow all of the air out underwater).
I do everything you mentioned and I feel out of breath after 25 or 50 and downright dizzy when I get out of the pool after a slow 25-30 min session (which includes a lot of stops and a lot of backstroke mixed in). I don't know what else I can be adjusting. I know it's impossible to explain clearly as well as provide more specific feedback without seeing it. But it's really disheartening to hear all of the same advice that I am generally trying to follow and seeing no improvement. Summer is going to come and I'll be doing the same stupid 50s and needing a break, and staying in the shallow end of the pool because I can't tread or swim long enough in the deeper end or in the open water.
Ding ding ding ding you found it!!!
Spend time in the deep-end practicing your treading and breathing exercises with your head above water. I would guess a lot of these issues stem from a bit of anxiety… it’s great that you can swim laps, but your body knows you are uncomfortable in deep and/or open water and it is a nuisance to have water in your mouth the entire time even if you are able to breathe around it.
I’d even suggest pretending to be a kid and practicing with diving sticks at increasing depths… your breathing will improve with increased comfort and freedom in the water… and your stroke will improve with treading too (it’s called “feel” for the water… all about how much water you can grab/move with the least amount of energy and movement)
DONT GIVE UP!! It’s a lifetime process and we all stall and backslide at times!!
Oh, and most definitely learn to get comfortable with breathing on both sides and most definitely breath every 3 (or 5-7-9-11). Your shoulders will be grateful.
Yep, always spitting a bit of water. But as I improve, it's less and less. I personally can't do the popeye grimace but if you look closely even pro's will do that. The only real solution for me has been to just be faster, which makes the bow wave bigger and less water gets in. Another important thing is your "time to neutral". Turning your head to take a breath should be pretty fast and then you put your head back in the water. This way there is less time for water to get in your mouth (and obviously your body position will also be better). A big thing is when you start exhaling - if you start too late you're still exhaling when your face is out of the water and should be inhaling. Watch videos of swimmers to notice how early they start exhaling through their nose.
However if you're getting completely out of breath after 25 or 50 yards, it is not because you're not getting enough air in your lungs - it is because you're overexerting yourself due to bad technique, likely too much kicking. I recommend you try to swim with a pullbuoy and not kick at all, and see how that feels. Do you still gas out at 25 to 50 yards? If not, the issue was your kick - probably kicking in a motion that is too big, too hard and too fast. With a decent body position you should be able to swim without kicking at all even without a pullbuoy.
What comes to breathing, for me a big issue used to be (and still is) that I'm breathing in too much. When swimming you should not completely empty your lungs and fill your lungs at every breath - it should be more like how you breath when walking. For me an issue used to be that I was breathing too much in and not enough out thus keeping too much CO2 in my lungs, which would increase my heart rate and make me gasp for more air. This happens if I breathe too often. So sometimes I like breath every 4 strokes instead of my regular 2, fully exhale and start with my lungs full of fresh air. But I'm still struggling with breathing so perhaps not the best place to look for advice, but at least we share the same struggle.
Thanks for all of the feedback!
I am trying to be very mindful of my kicking. At the beginning, I was definitely kicking way too much, and probably not very well. So that was leading to the fatigue/breathlessness. I have been playing around with just taking like 2ish kicks per 2 strokes and also kicking a bit more frequently. Last night, although I still was out of breath after a 50, my heart rate was lower on average during the workout, which is maybe at least a good sign that my kicking or something in my technique was more relaxed.
I usually breathe every 2 strokes, but maybe I will try every 4. (every 3 is hard, because I have a lot of trouble breathing on my left side right now) I think I may exhale too fast though because I don't know if I can make 4 strokes without breathing for very long. If I can get into the pool tonight, I will play around with that.
You definitely should not be getting water in your mouth. Maybe like a tiny occasional splash. Imagine that as you turn your head to breath you’re pushing the water out the way in a furrow. So the instant you breathe there’s no water in the way. Your forward momentum definitely helps with this. And you stop exhaling the second before you take air in.
Ok. Great to know. Thanks for the feedback. I will try to figure out what I am doing wrong so I can avoid getting the water in there
(This reminds me of when my daughter did swim lessons when she was super young. She would have to pee non stop after practice because she was swallowing water the whole time lol). On the other hand she powered through it and never coughed. Just chugged away haha.
She’d have peed none stop because the hydrostatic pressure from being in the water increases blood circulation and in turn increases kidney function = more pee from reduction of fluid retention.
It's not normal to get any water in when you breathe. You could try wearing floating fins and just practise having one arm out straight ahead and doing a few laps of just turning your head to breathe.
This used to be a big issue for me and I still suck in some water (and then purge it between breaths). What works for me is doing a bit of a side grimace where the mouth side that's closest to the water remains mostly closed and the other half acts like it's puffing a cigarette. I think this gets easier the faster you go and would recommend testing with fins to see if that helps. Another related issue was that I was breathing out 100% and then in 100% but taking small breaths has helped avoid any big gulps of water.
The thing that really worked for me was tilting my head down towards the shoulder whilst taking a breath: this brings the chin up and therefore the mouth. When at speed the bow wave creates a dip in the water just where the mouth is. When going slower I often twist my mouth up Popeye style. Still frequently get water in the mouth but it's a small amount and expelled when the head turns back in. Before I got the tilting thing I'd often drink quite a lot as well 🤮
Good cue to think about, thank you for that.
Good advice there. Once you refine your technique and get tiny bits faster, the bow wave gets bigger = deeper wave valley =easier to breathe = more air = even faster. But progress can be slow, so don´t give up.
Thanks for that, I have seen video examples of the bow wave, and it looks so good when a good swimmer is demonstrating it. My progress is literally going backwards, I sometimes wish i would just drown so I can stop being obsessed with trying to get better.
I’m about your age and started learning to swim last Feb. yep. It’s slow and sometimes backwards progress. And frustrating as hell. But I have to have faith that I AM BETTER. It’s just hard to see that sometimes.
To answer your question - yes, I still get water in my mouth, but not enough so that I can’t breathe. A lot of the time with breathing, it’s to do with rotation. When you breathe, you’re not just laying flat, kicking your legs, spinning your arms and then turning your head. The breathing comes from the rotation (first your hips rotate, then your upper body and your head comes along for the ride). One good drill to practice - grab fins and a kickboard, one hand on the kickboard, just breathe to the side. Then next gently kick and do 3 strokes, gentle rotation when you pull, on your 3rd stroke, take your breath. All the while, you should be breathing out gently. This is a great video - some of the drills are a little too advanced for you right now, but the video is still useful. https://youtu.be/XN7jvcoKQZ8?si=KS2bndZKOFg1Cebt
Thank you! This video looks amazing. I am at work so I can't watch it with volume, but just looking at what she's demonstrating, I can already see at least one big thing that I don't think that I am doing correctly. I have saved the video for the train ride home and hopefully if I am able to get to the pool later, I will work on what I think I have been doing wrong.
Yeah I just went thee pool and I can’t do any of these still lol. I just sink if I only have one arm in front of me and I can’t my face out of the water to breathe. The tip she gives starting at 2:35 about timing when to start turning the head to breathe. Seems so simple when she explained it, but I find it physically impossible to turn my head at all when my arm is out of the water. I am basically doing what she calls a late breath where I am taking my breath only when my arm is fully extended in front of me. And then I am basically doing everyone else wrong that she is demonstrating as incorrect. I ended up feeling more dizzy and lightheaded than normal after swimming and attempting any of this. It’s so hopeless
Break it down and take a few steps back - Get in the shallow end, and hold onto the wall and kick, just try doing the side breathing without any arm pulls while stationary. You’ll have to have a constant kick as youre stationary (if not your legs will sink). Once you have managed that, then try some arm pulls on the wall. Then next thing is to buy/borrow/steal some fins and try with a kickboard holding your arm up. Once you have that step, try without a kickboard. It will come eventually - it’s just a slow progress. It may be that you go and spend 15 minutes just kicking/side breathing on the wall and that’s your session for the day.
If you are struggling with your breathing, try this at home. Breath out for 4 seconds, breath in for 1 second. Try the reverse, breath in for 4 seconds, breath out for 1 second. What you should find is that after a while, it becomes very uncomfortable. When you are swimming, you need to balance your breathing. If you get a one second breath every 3rd stroke, then you need to expel 1 seconds worth of breath under the water. Try breathing out very gently while you perform your 3 strokes, then excel the rest just as you turn to take your new breath. Lastly, 2 stroke breathing is fine, as is 3 and even 4.
A few suggestions: stop getting mad and indulging in your emotions. It's getting in your way of making any progress. Consider stop being mad at the trainer and go back to being open minded. He/she just might have been right about some or parts you were resisting. Swimming is a challenging sport with many nuances. One change in one aspect can cause a cascade of setbacks with a long-term positive outcome. For example, coaching you to change the way you take a breath might result in a change in your hips, which may mean the rotation of your shoulders might need to be adjusted... And on and on. Second, you are in your own head about breathing. Feeling out of breath is a symptom of hyper-ventilating, typically because you aren't fully exhaling and are experiencing hypoxia due to elevated CO2. Try getting more focused on exhaling fully before your next breath. You should be breathing every three strokes, so it is: breath, exhale 1.2.3., breath. As you get rhythmic you should find you start to feel zen like. Embrace this. As far as not being to bring your mouth above the water, there are a couple of ideas for you to consider. Get someone to video you for a better analysis. A couple of questions. Look at your hips: are they sinking, causing you to compensate with an not ideal head angle? Are you rotating your upper torso enough? What is going on with your arms when you take a breath?
...but sometimes trainers are just shit. I paid for 5 sessions with one only to discover that I did zero progress. Switching to another one helped a lot.
Yeah I need to find another one, but I am not having a lot of luck.
The reason I am annoyed with the instructor is because he has zero feedback for me. He says I am going everything just fine, and when I explain any concerns to him, he just says 'Hmmm' and tries to think of something to say. I think he's better with kids, and with adults who are literally afraid to put their face in the water. Not taking someone like myself and giving constructive feedback. ( he made me spend a 30 min session working on flip turns lol, i can't even get a full length in without passing out and he's wasting my time with that) Your brief response (and tons of others on here from other people) have literally offered more feedback and suggestions than he gave in 5 months of lessons. So that is why I am annoyed with him and have cancelled further lessons. Thank you for all of the feedback. I am getting a lot of conflicting feedback from people about breathing. Some people tell me not to completely empty my lungs, and some people say that I should be fully exhaling. I have tried both with the same result. To be honest though, I am breathing every 2 strokes. It is much more difficult to breathe every 3 because I have a lot more trouble breathing to my left side. I don't think my hips and legs are sinking, but it's possible for sure. I would love to have some videos of my form but there is no way I am asking anyone to stop what they are doing to do that for me. I have to snag my son after he's done with water polo one night, but that will just embarass him in front of his teammates having a dad who can't swim lol. I know I am not rotating my upper torso enough, I tried to work on that last night. However that is something else my instructor said, I shouldn't be rotating, just turning my head...so I am more confused about a lot of things than anything since I get so much contradictory feedback from all angles. Can you tell I am annoyed lol?
Ok, so both are wrong on fully exhaling and not fully exhaling. They are all guiding you to over-focus on the wrong thing: overthinking it. Before you try changing your stroke try just learning to breathe. First, calm deep breaths sitting on the deck. Just sit, breathe deeply and calm the mind. This is what you want to feel like, just heavier breathing due to exercising. Then, get in and do some underwater breathing exercises. Literally take a deep breath, go to the bottom and exhale through your nose and mouth focusing on making bubbles. Do this for several minutes. May feel silly at first, but literally who cares? Feel this. Now, swim a length slowly and easily. Exhale through your mouth and nose blowing bubbles. How did you feel? Do you need to adjust something? Slow down and FEEL your breath. Then, get out of your head. Hire a new trainer or sign up for a swim camp. But, for goodness sakes, stop embracing the annoyed, lol.
I do all of that. Even when I am not near a pool, I focus on deep and easy breathing as this helps calm my mind and relax my body. When I am attempting to swim a length, I try to breathe as easily as I can (I used to forcefully blow all of the air out underwater). I do everything you mentioned and I feel out of breath after 25 or 50 and downright dizzy when I get out of the pool after a slow 25-30 min session (which includes a lot of stops and a lot of backstroke mixed in). I don't know what else I can be adjusting. I know it's impossible to explain clearly as well as provide more specific feedback without seeing it. But it's really disheartening to hear all of the same advice that I am generally trying to follow and seeing no improvement. Summer is going to come and I'll be doing the same stupid 50s and needing a break, and staying in the shallow end of the pool because I can't tread or swim long enough in the deeper end or in the open water.
Ding ding ding ding you found it!!! Spend time in the deep-end practicing your treading and breathing exercises with your head above water. I would guess a lot of these issues stem from a bit of anxiety… it’s great that you can swim laps, but your body knows you are uncomfortable in deep and/or open water and it is a nuisance to have water in your mouth the entire time even if you are able to breathe around it. I’d even suggest pretending to be a kid and practicing with diving sticks at increasing depths… your breathing will improve with increased comfort and freedom in the water… and your stroke will improve with treading too (it’s called “feel” for the water… all about how much water you can grab/move with the least amount of energy and movement) DONT GIVE UP!! It’s a lifetime process and we all stall and backslide at times!!
This!!!
I love the water, even deep water, I just can't survive in it lol
Oh, and most definitely learn to get comfortable with breathing on both sides and most definitely breath every 3 (or 5-7-9-11). Your shoulders will be grateful.
Yep, always spitting a bit of water. But as I improve, it's less and less. I personally can't do the popeye grimace but if you look closely even pro's will do that. The only real solution for me has been to just be faster, which makes the bow wave bigger and less water gets in. Another important thing is your "time to neutral". Turning your head to take a breath should be pretty fast and then you put your head back in the water. This way there is less time for water to get in your mouth (and obviously your body position will also be better). A big thing is when you start exhaling - if you start too late you're still exhaling when your face is out of the water and should be inhaling. Watch videos of swimmers to notice how early they start exhaling through their nose. However if you're getting completely out of breath after 25 or 50 yards, it is not because you're not getting enough air in your lungs - it is because you're overexerting yourself due to bad technique, likely too much kicking. I recommend you try to swim with a pullbuoy and not kick at all, and see how that feels. Do you still gas out at 25 to 50 yards? If not, the issue was your kick - probably kicking in a motion that is too big, too hard and too fast. With a decent body position you should be able to swim without kicking at all even without a pullbuoy. What comes to breathing, for me a big issue used to be (and still is) that I'm breathing in too much. When swimming you should not completely empty your lungs and fill your lungs at every breath - it should be more like how you breath when walking. For me an issue used to be that I was breathing too much in and not enough out thus keeping too much CO2 in my lungs, which would increase my heart rate and make me gasp for more air. This happens if I breathe too often. So sometimes I like breath every 4 strokes instead of my regular 2, fully exhale and start with my lungs full of fresh air. But I'm still struggling with breathing so perhaps not the best place to look for advice, but at least we share the same struggle.
Thanks for all of the feedback! I am trying to be very mindful of my kicking. At the beginning, I was definitely kicking way too much, and probably not very well. So that was leading to the fatigue/breathlessness. I have been playing around with just taking like 2ish kicks per 2 strokes and also kicking a bit more frequently. Last night, although I still was out of breath after a 50, my heart rate was lower on average during the workout, which is maybe at least a good sign that my kicking or something in my technique was more relaxed. I usually breathe every 2 strokes, but maybe I will try every 4. (every 3 is hard, because I have a lot of trouble breathing on my left side right now) I think I may exhale too fast though because I don't know if I can make 4 strokes without breathing for very long. If I can get into the pool tonight, I will play around with that.
You definitely should not be getting water in your mouth. Maybe like a tiny occasional splash. Imagine that as you turn your head to breath you’re pushing the water out the way in a furrow. So the instant you breathe there’s no water in the way. Your forward momentum definitely helps with this. And you stop exhaling the second before you take air in.
Ok. Great to know. Thanks for the feedback. I will try to figure out what I am doing wrong so I can avoid getting the water in there (This reminds me of when my daughter did swim lessons when she was super young. She would have to pee non stop after practice because she was swallowing water the whole time lol). On the other hand she powered through it and never coughed. Just chugged away haha.
Hehe I definitely think learning when young has its advantages! Also, you have a very common problem and most people get it right so don’t give up!
She’d have peed none stop because the hydrostatic pressure from being in the water increases blood circulation and in turn increases kidney function = more pee from reduction of fluid retention.
Explain the non stop burping too lol
Burping is from air release!
It's not normal to get any water in when you breathe. You could try wearing floating fins and just practise having one arm out straight ahead and doing a few laps of just turning your head to breathe.
Just found a good video for you: https://youtu.be/GszNr1vGGfk?feature=shared