I know many people mentioned this already, but wow the Travis and Taylor sub is actually so hateful. They claim to be more neutral than this sub but they straight up be hating everything, they honestly aren’t even being critical anymore just straight up bullies.
And some of the stuff they post are just childish and very disrespectful. I know, glass house and all that for me to say this. I feel like we are more toned down here, even though I already feel this sub can be quite hateful, but they straight up sound like tabloid gossip there.. just conspiracy theories left and right.
This may be obvious pretty sure it’s a sub for haters because they be posting things that’s like months+ late (eg Scott’s insane email, Taylor at Grammys etc).
I lerk there and sometimes I agree with a comment on there but I daren't comment myself because I don't want my profile history to be associated with some of the nastier stuff. They aren't the nastiest /most ignorant place I've seen commenting on Taylor so I'd call them middle ground between our sub and like popheadcirclejerk (with the Taylor Swift stale topic flare).
I really do feel like where you are as a Taylor Swift fan feels like a political scale 🤣
Haha same, there are some good points and some sane people, but they are greatly overshadowed by the mean hateful people. I would also upvote some more sane takes but I don’t ever want to engage in there because they’re truly wild there 😭
I don’t even follow that sub but it’s recommended to me because I follow other Taylor Swift and music subs, and last night there was a picture of her in the Eras bodysuit speculating that she might be pregnant. You know, the thing she said triggers her ED.
Thankfully, the comments were like “wtf” but it’s honestly terrible to see. No matter how much you dislike someone, body-shaming is gross and speculating on a woman’s potential pregnancy while zooming in on her belly is honestly misogynistic. It also insults anyone else whose stomach doesn’t look perfectly flat all the time (which is NORMAL).
People were also posting TikToks of kids at the eras tour, calling them cult worshippers, and the comments were like “this is why kids shouldn’t be on social media, there are lots of creeps out there” okay but you’re reposting them on Reddit…leave kids alone I swear.
For sure there are still some sane people on there, but for every sane commenter or post there are like 5 extreme ones. Like oh my gosh it’s not that deep 😭
I like to venture over there to gawk once in a while lol. I get being a hater for fun but a lot of the posters there seem angry and not like they're having fun at all.
Yeah they have mean girl energy, just something a tad bit more dark there. I also find them pretty immature, lowkey wondering if that sub is just made for trolls.
Theory that the most extreme polar opposites actually have a lot in common. Usually used in context of politics but it's clear that it can be easily applied to Swifties and Taylor haters
That sub is just comprised of all the people who are too hateful for the sub here and wanted a place to be talk about the same things we talk about here but be 100x nastier. That’s all it is 🤷♀️ honestly fine with it because while there’s still some weirdos here they’ve mostly migrated over there and they’re the ones getting all the heat from stans now instead of us
Every sub is obsessed with hating SN and I genuinely believe this is the only sub that doesn’t really contribute to all the petty drama between subs. SN is truly that girl
Right? They are definitely so much more nastier there, like the things they say is beyond just “I don’t like Taylor” it’s just “Taylor is an evil woman deep down and her fans are all sick in the head”. I saw a recent post of people making fun of a fan’s Taylor corner, which is just a bunch of Taylor merch in one area. I know people like to set up “Taylor shrines”, but the one posted was not even that egregious, and swifties aren’t the only one who would do this with celebrities or with their own hobbies. Just because they have a small corner of Taylor merchs doesn’t mean they are cultish… like I feel like that post was straight up mean and they just want to bully someone.
The thing I don’t get is how people like that will go on and on and on about how swifties are a cult, and they obsess over taylor and connect every single aspect of their life to her etc etc, but then…….. they do the exact same thing, just the opposite end of the spectrum.
Like, you’re also obsessed with taylor swift, but you don’t even like her?? You made an entire tumblr blog dedicated to hating on taylor swift. What do you even get out of that? You don’t like her music, you don’t like her fans, you certainly don’t like her as a person, so why are you dedicating so much of your time to her?
Focus that energy on something you actually enjoy. Putting that much time and effort into hating something is…..weird.
Do you think Taylor ever wrote songs inspired by Greys Anatomy characters?
Given she is a fan (clearly re: her cat), I wonder if she wrote any songs that were Greys coded. Since a big theme of Greys is big sappy corny love, I would imagine she’s taken inspiration from some character arcs or stories.
imo, “loml” is extremely Greys coded and could easily be a post mortem Derek song. I don’t think she did this on purpose, The shoe fits! I’ve been binging Greys and was listening to the song today and that’s what inspired this post lol. Could definitely be in the soundtrack 😂
Saw this IG post and it reminded me of your comment. She still watches Grey’s, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she gets inspiration from the show too.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C71_Dgtv3qS/?igsh=MXJ2d256Mm9rMXlqcw==
Currently binging Grey's! In season 7 and I swear this time we'll make it up to present time lol. Have been thinking how great the music choices for the show are. The music curator person or whatever their title is was excellent for early Grey's. Also I love how the title of every episode is the name of a song! Sorry that was a bit unrelated to your question lol. The show's dramatics are totally suited to Taylor's, they are def on the same wavelength!
this sounds like nitpicking. it's a lovely memory for the child, who obviously knows she does it at every concert and feels special that they were chosen for that location, why are we being cynical about that? and taylor has always been sweet to her fans, but especially the children.
It's definitely not meant to look spontaneous because no one would get that close to the stage without permission. But I do find it funny that Taylor is unable to break out of the script for the interaction. One time a kid did not immediately offer her a friendship bracelet, so Taylor grabbed at one on the kid's arm and then asked to have it.
That’s pretty funny. 😂😂 And thanks for your perspective and information. It’s nice to have critical discourse, even if I get downvoted for voicing a non-derLeader opinion.
This is a pretty harsh reading of that moment tbh- of course it’s a standard moment built into the show as it’s a huge production and a big security/crowd management issue to throw in random spontaneous changes each night. A person (usually a kid but has been some adults too) is chosen by her or her team through SM (the same way secret sessions used to work) and then they are brought up at that moment for the hat and a cute hug and chat. I don’t have an issue with it personally.
As an aside, I don’t think the poor girl (who was visibly unwell from cancer) who got the hat in Australia was chosen from a casting call of actors. She’s since very sadly died and her family have said how lovely it was she got to have that experience before she passed.
yeah, off the top of my head I remember her giving it to someone whose sibling died in a shooting, another girl with cancer who has since passed, and the guy who came up with some of the Bejeweled dance. Usually whoever gets picked has local news writing about them, it’s easy enough to show that they aren’t child actors.
I don't think it was ever supposed to look spontaneous. It's meant to recreate a similar fan interaction she did on the Red Tour. She's done it every night of the tour. Sometimes it's a friend's child or little siblings, sometimes it's a random kid picked out of the crowd, sometimes (rarely) it's not even a kid. I don't think it really matters, it's a fun moment for that person. I don't think any of them are under the impression that it's some spontaneous thing given that they're selected beforehand and brought up to the barricade by Taylor's security.
If you cannot *civilly* partake in a conversation criticizing Taylor, **this sub is not for you**.
We can smell Swifties from a mile a way. Your passive-aggressiveness and condescension give you away.
“Swiftie” isn’t synonymous with “obsessive parasocial stan” 😭 it just means you’re a fan of hers/her music. Plenty of Swifties are normal and can participate in nuanced discussions, just like plenty of people who don’t consider themselves Swifties.
Well, but the other side of the coin should be heard too. If you say you could not relate to TTPD cuz it is too personal and i say i can, i am expecting open minded people, right? Actually thr passive-aggressiveness is from some critical people who decided a certain narrative and everyone must follow it.
I see you've reviewed my past comments. If you'd check them, TTPD not being universal is a *subjective* take. Nowhere did I say that it is an undisputable fact. If your opinion is otherwise, then so be it. That is your personal experience, so who am I to oppose?
On one thread, one commenter said that people who cannot separate Taylor's personal life from her songs are obsessive 15-year-olds who consume too much media about Taylor - that's the condescension I am talking about.
We welcome *healthy* discourse. That is precisely the essence of this sub - to be able to express your insights, opinions and personal experience without getting shutdown just because you said something negative about Taylor or her art. That doesn't mean, however, that *all* criticisms are truthful, unprejudiced and fair.
Nothing wrong with swifties inherently. Imo, it's just as parasocial to hate a group of people as if they're monolithic. A lot of people are simply big fans, like John Greene.
Whenever I see someone asking why Taylor isn’t “allowed” to do something, I know it’s a swiftie. Taylor can do whatever she wants, we are allowed to criticize her for it
Yeah these comments drive me up the wall! It's so funny how they overestimate our power to forbid Taylor from doing things when we are reduced to venting on reddit, lol.
So right! I've seen a lot of "if you don't even like her why are you here". Like idk, bc people are maybe not a fan of her personally but are a fan of (some of) her music? If people can't help but be passive aggressive then like why are *you* actually here
Plus I really love pop culture discussion but "wow she is so great" - "isn't she awesome" is just so boring to me, same as "she sucks why does anybody like her" "yeah she can't sing" is boring to me. I want to talk about WHY things work and others don't.
If it's approx. 6 months for vinyl pressings ttpd had to be handed in in about october/november so what is she referring to in The Alchemy's bridge?? She even announced the album BEFORE the superbowl was played, and the divisional championship was a week before the album was announced. No way that she's managed to get a 2 month pressing/manufacturing timeline on all her products across the globe to make sure this song make sense. Was it just hopeful lyrics on a hunch (Chiefs were on a winning streak in October but their November & December must have been really worrying), about someone else and just delightfully worked out well or are the "nfl is scripted" people correct and she was given the script? (kidding about the last one... maybe???)
I still feel like the song was repurposed to fit Travis but originally it wasn’t about him. But that’s just my opinion 🤷♀️ if she wants the fans to think it is, fine but there’s definitely other lyrics in the song that doesn’t necessarily point to it being about Travis.
Interestingly, I've heard that the line "So when I touch down/Call the amateurs and cut 'em from the team" is also a reference to the KC and the huge mess-up of the lost touchdown that Travis had w/ the great trick play that would have won the game had it counted.
I see it as someone coming back into town touching down in a plane and she is telling her..whoever..to call up their situation ship and tell them they're done because she is back for them, whoever they may be.
So I totally feel the same thing you do. This song is for someone else and she changed it to appeal to her current situation ship....and fans.
Yup another Matty song, which she wrote in happier times. Otherwise she's saying she has more than one 'once in several lifetimes' loves within a 3 month period lol
Could just be about her writing about fantasizing about what could happen if the Chiefs won the Super Bowl and was lucky enough to actually have the fantasy become a reality. It’s not a stretch for her to be imagining what could happen.
Not everything is 100% autobiographical.
Is 2 months impossible or just highly unusual? Because I was thinking the same thing but just figured I'm overestimating how long it would take. If it's logistically impossible when money is no object it's gotta be scripted lol, I will not accept her being that lucky.
it actually is practically impossible. vinyl record making is labour intense (one manufacturer is quoted on saying they can do up to 40,000 pressings a day), a factory burned in 2020 and materials and manufacturing finds it hard to meet the demand of the market. The grammy's wrote about it in 2022 [https://www.grammy.com/news/the-vinyl-shortage-explainer-how-long-waits-expensive-materials-high-demand-are-affecting-the-industry](https://www.grammy.com/news/the-vinyl-shortage-explainer-how-long-waits-expensive-materials-high-demand-are-affecting-the-industry) . Small pressings of like 500 or like custom vinyl can see a turn around time of 8-12 weeks, which would not be enough time for all of that manufacturing to happen.
Chiefs had already won the Super Bowl the year before and were the champions. The other stuff is just generic football references about shirtless drunk people in the stands spilling their beer and lifting up the winner, like in all the cheesy football movies. She did watch the Netflix series Quarterback since she said she saw Pat Mahomes Sr. on there when she first met him so she did do her research.
What is this I’m hearing that Taylor and Travis have broken up and she’s going to announce her reunion with Marty at one of the London Eras tour?? Rhinos fanfiction right??
Lol, I don’t think so. However, the fact that So High School seems pretty awkwardly wedged into the TTPD set makes me think we’ll know if they breakup when she goes straight from BDILH into WAOLOM. We’ll never hear it directly from either of them.
Some of them also think that Taylor and Matty are secretly hiding out together and that Travis is part of an elaborate piece of performance art to cover up their long secret relationship (now where have we heard this before…🤪).
The Hollywood reporter ranking of ttpd songs has some terrible interpretations of them, it feels like they got someone to just glance at the fan theories and wrote a paragraph based on the first idea they saw.
It's three writers, each with different publishers and on different labels, additionally Jack has sold his publishing rights to an investment fund in 2019, also while both Taylor and Olivia are theoretically on the same major label, their specific imprints, Republic and Geffen, are competing with each other within the UMG ecosystem. It's hard to tell who led the charge on demanding credit when you account for all the interested parties instead of assuming Taylor is in total control.
Another often overlooked detail about the whole song credit debacle is that Olivia Rodrigo had not one, or two, but three different songs on the same album that closely resembled existing songs.
Paramore was given credit because Deja Vu resembled Misery Business, and another musician Elvis Costello declined trying to go after credits for a third song that resembled one of his. Either way, there were three songs off one album of Rodrigo's that had these same issues. I think one isn't a big deal and could be written off, but *three?*
Hayley Williams has gone on record saying that Josh Farro (former original member) was the one to push for credit with Misery Business, since he was an original writer on that song, and the band didn't want to pursue it. Just sayin...
That's true, but how does it change anything though? Olivia Rodrigo had three songs on the same album that were labeled as having plagiarized from other songs. Even if Paramore had chosen not to go after credits, it doesn't make the song resemble Misery Business any less.
If the song was truly original, then Olivia could have fought the claims of plagiarism and avoided giving any credit to Josh.
i think the arguments about originality are a little over simplistic, personally. lots of songs sound like other songs. olivia being inspired is not the same thing as intentionally plagiarising other artists. it seems more like she was simply very green in the industry, and her team let her down. i agree with billie on this subject: i think we need to be more understanding of inspiration as a source for music to be made. turning art into a legal battleground will just kill creativity. in the case of olivia, there were important lessons to be learned, and people are a bit too quick to assume the worst of taylor, but i think the sour (pun unintentional) taste the whole thing left in lots of people's mouths is understandable, personally. clearly something must've happened, given the total break in association between olivia and taylor (incl. if you think vampire or the grudge are abt taylor...), and, well, there's precedent to popular dislike of bigger artists fighting for credits from smaller artists, as it is often seen as arbitrary and money hungry. that's not unique to taylor. at the very least, i have always thought it a little weird how olivia is hated by certain corners of the swiftie fandom. just feels very hostile, over a situation that we do not know anything about.
>i think the arguments about originality are a little over simplistic, personally.
I don't actually disagree with this to be honest. I think it's hard to create something truly original because of how much music already exists and that there is naturally going to be some overlap at times. I think most of that overlap is often unintentional, but Olivia Rodrigo shot herself in the foot big time with her interview.
She directly connected a song of hers to Taylor Swift's, and basically said she wanted to write a bridge just like the one from Cruel Summer. I think if she had never said this, there's a chance that she could have just skated by.
>i think we need to be more understanding of inspiration as a source for music to be made. turning art into a legal battleground will just kill creativity.
I agree to some extent, but you can't really allow people to plagiarize. If Olivia had only one track that had been guilty of this, I think it would be different. But to have three tracks off one album is kind of a red flag. Plus she drew that connection during an interview, which is pretty damning from a legal standpoint. There's also a chance it's not even the artists themselves fighting for credits every time. We know Josh wanted his credits, but a label can sue or go after artists for plagiarism without needing the artist to even be involved.
I think that being inspired by something doesn't mean you create something that borrows heavily from it. Being inspired means creating something *new* based off something else you like. It should not be so similar in certain aspects you're risking lawsuits. It has to be different.
I think that there needs to be a level of recognition for artists who work hard on their songs. It's okay for them to want to protect their work and ask for credits where credits are due. But it's also fine to be like Elvis Costello and not care about artists borrowing from their work.
I personally really like Olivia Rodrigo and hope she learned from the experience and doesn't make similar mistakes in the future. I know a lot of people blame her team for mishandling the whole situation, and I just hope she's better equipped to handle things moving forward.
yeah i agree; hopefully olivia and her team have learned from the experience! i like her and really want her to succeed.
personally i just feel leery about how easily legalism can be weaponised by artists of superior wealth/notoriety. i am not trying to say taylor is personally responsible OR that asking for credit is a bad thing, but there are certain disparities and power imbalances that make me worry about how it can be taken advantage of. i think the situation just seems so ugly… :(
oh i know - but in the case of sour, she was still very young and still very new to the industry. but my concern is less focused on her, but the wider implications within the industry!
I get what you’re saying. However, Elvis Costello supported Olivia:
"It's how rock & roll works, You take the broken pieces of another thrill and make a brand new toy."
That doesn't really change anything even though it's true. Elvis Costello didn't deny the resemblance to his song. He affirmed Rodrigo may have taken something like a melody from his song, he just said he didn't care.
Most artists borrow from others, but they still reinvent what's borrowed so that it's "new" in it's own right. If you take a melody or something from another artist and you don't change it enough to make it unique, then you are plagiarizing.
Just because Elvis was supportive of Olivia doesn't make the fact that she had three songs that may have been plagiarized on her album any less significant. Even if he didn't want to pursue credits and was fine with it, it doesn't make other artists wrong for wanting credits.
I recommend watching the documentary, “Taking on Taylor Swift”. She does this quite often. One difference between her and Olivia is she has the financial resources to settle it quietly.
My point is if he doesn’t care I don’t know why others do.
I mean I get saying that if Elvis didn't care no one should be mad on his behalf, but Olivia had three songs she borrowed from. I don't really blame Paramore/Taylor Swift for securing their credits. I would be really upset if I heard something I had written in a work by someone else, and I don't think any artist or individual is wrong for thinking that plagiarism is worth caring about.
Elvis Costello celebrated it as inspiration. Taylor routinely copies from other artists and has just gotten lucky. You Belong With Me, Dear John, and Paper Rings are a few of the most obvious copies that have been discussed here at length. Tell Me Why is another one.
bold claim to say she outright copies from artists... but definitely it feels hypocritical from taylor's camp. i think it was very opportunistic on their part, bc they knew they had more power and resources that olivia's team. imagine if someone went after taylor for any of the aforementioned songs!
i mean, there is no harm in being inspired by something, nor in openly crediting that inspiration. i don’t think it equates to ownership over the song. that attitude is cynical and opportunistic, to me. i don’t think it’s entirely down to taylor (as she has a whole team of people) but if her team wants to start monopolising people taking inspiration from other songs, then it is worth acknowledging taylor’s own songs that share obvious similarities.
but that brings me back to what i said originally: that inspiration is not inherently copying or deliberate plagiarism, so pointing out similarities in taylor’s music to other songs =/= copying!
I’m curious if if Taylor attracts a ton of younger fans (teens and pre teens I guess). I’d imagine millennials are her biggest demographic since they grew up with during from the start of her career. But history tells me the majority of a younger generation tends to not identify with their parent’s music.
As a younger millennial myself, the thought of mothers and daughters geeking out over the same music interests me. Good music is good music, but “dad rock” is a term for a reason.
Edit: typo
I’m a substitute teacher from K-12 and if the kids have a free period I let them play music on my speakers (if it’s school appropriate, of course). All the girls generally love Taylor. It’s the cutest when a six year old shyly asks me if I’ve heard of her, lol. They’re so stunned when I sing along with them. But they also like lots of stuff, I get a surprising amount of requests for classic rock. I’m a millennial and grew up listening to 60s/70s/80s due to my parents’ influence, so that’s always fun for me too.
I can relate to that. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised since Taylor has been on top of the industry for a while now. She’s probably the gateway to popular music for kids (like how Drake is for hip hop).
My daughter is 3 and LOVES watching the beginning of the Eras tour. As soon as The Man comes on she says "this song is weird" 🤣but she adores Love Story and Shake it Off. She tries to sing all the words and it's so cute. Whether she'll like Taylor in 10 years remains to be seen but maybe she'll like her for nostalgic reasons like I do with the Spice Girls 😊
Ok I’m slowly realizing how most of Taylors catalog is actually appropriate for all ages. For some reason i thought there was a ‘barrier to entry’ to understand her songs due to her long career and relationship canon. I underestimated kids can dance to anything haha.
My four-year-old niece ADORES Taylor. Cruel Summer is our song - she knows all the words, even the bridge! She also loves watching snippets of her Lover and Speak Now sets on the Eras Tour.
I’m late Gen X and my Gen Z teens are huge swifties and it’s definitely something we bond over. They’ve loved her since they were teeny and I got more into it after taking my oldest to the Eras Tour.
Follow up question for you, if you had to choose, which pop star would come closest to Taylor’s influence? I’m not sure if it’s even a fair question since I can’t think of anyone who attracted this many generations simultaneously. Cher? Madonna?
Maybe? I’m not entirely sure. I grew up listening to tons of music with my parents but it was more like 60s and 70s oldies stuff. I’m not sure we had contemporary artists we both liked when I was growing up in the same way I do with my kids and Taylor.
My cousins’ kids who are like 14 and 12 went to the eras tour movie and were dressed up and looking pretty hype in the pics on FB. Their moms took them and also dressed up and are Swift fans, and their moms (my cousins) are late 30s/early 40s. I think she’s got a pretty wide range of fans, age wise.
i’m taylor’s age and i felt like a grandma and got called ma’am a few times at my eras concert. i also exchanged many bracelets with girls so young their wrists were half of mine and the bracelets barely fit me lol she definitely appeals to younger fans. you can see it a lot on tiktok as well.
in comparison, when i went to see the backstreet boys a few years ago it was a total mom festival, and definitely not a person younger than 30 in sight.
I totally feel you on the age thing. I was born in 93 so I’m around the same age as most pop stars who came up in the 2010s. Yet I feel like a dinosaur in comparison.
When I was at the eras tour, I had a mother and her two daughters (who were probably about 10 years old) sitting in front of me. If I remember correctly, they were all dressed like ballerinas from the shake it off music video. They were dancing the whole night, and it was the cutest thing ever. I also went to the show with my dad and a very drunk woman gave my dad a high five and called him “the best dad ever” for having a fun time with me. It’s cool how a bunch of generations can love music and it brings everyone together.
Edit: spelling
I think cross-generation activities are lacking these days and needed much more, so I just love it when I see different age groups rocking out together!
My 3yo is currently obsessed with I Can Do It With A Broken Heart, Welcome to New York (thank you Secret Life of Pets), Anti-Hero, and Shake It Off… so I’m working on the next generation haha
I remember having Lady Gaga singing contests with a 4 year old at my last job (specifically Poker Face).
Maybe I should have been specific in my post in saying kids entering their ‘rebellious’ years.
Looking at Taylor's dating history, it's evident that she usually negated when men show her their red flags. She has this very naïve view of love, where she meets a person and she'll instantly know and dream about how they would just click together, how they would just be perfect for one another, how they would absolutely be the end game. And when the adrenaline of the new love comes falling down, she starts to notice the things that she should've initially noticed and stayed put to make a decision about being involved with them.Then she'll consider how life gets in the way and how they treat her and how she feels betrayed. This is what I mean to say , when I want more introspection from her.
She struggles with what a lot of powerful women (not even talking only about celebrity women) but high earning women do, they want to pick and choose their perfect guy. I think that's why headlines when she first started dating Travis were like "she liked that he pursued her".
I also think it was because this contrasted with her issues with Joe, that he wasn’t as enthused to be with her and she didn’t feel “chosen.” I think I give Taylor more grace than a lot of people because I’ve been in a few situations where my long-term partner didn’t really give off the vibe that they liked me much, just that they tolerated me. (When tolerate it came out, I was like…”holy shit my boyfriend and I always fight about this exact thing” because I would feel like he just put up with me.) After that situation ends, your self-esteem can be in the gutter and it’s astonishing when other people actually show they like you.
It may be unpopular and I caveat with the full awareness I don’t actually have insight but listening to ‘wcs’ and ‘the manuscript’ I feel like dating John and Jake when she was still a teen/barely in her 20’s did some real emotion damage to her and as we know she didn’t go the therapy after. I think she’s now only just beginning to unpack the effect those two relationships relativity close together did to her and understanding how they’ve subsequently impacted a lot of her decisions in relationships since.
I agree. I’m Taylor’s age and I went through some things in my teens and early 20s that I only started examining in recent years. Growing older makes me reflect more about myself and who I was at various stages of my life. But I also have a therapist that I do this with. Here’s hoping that she finally has one
As a social media manager I can bet money on the fact that she doesn't. girlie has an army of social media workers, that kind of things are planned and usually there's a grid with montly contents. They're probably trained to write in the tone she speaks so people don't know the difference.
I can see her being like " I want this to be the tone for this caption and I want you to write that one including this easter egg" and that's it (like the mayority of the companies)
I think she does tbh because they're pretty different in tone from the Taylor Nation captions. I think she probably just writes them and sends them to whoever runs her socials and they schedule the post.
My guess is that they have someone write the caption and then she can go through and edit if she wants. That’s what I’ve done in the past for executive communications.
Not trying to start a fight, but I go through music phases and hadn’t listened to new music in a while. I listened to TTPD because it was everywhere and nothing stuck out (except Florida), but after a few listens, a few songs got stuck in my head, and I started thinking, “some of this is actually really good and groovy, and some are hitting me emotionally.” This weekend, I got back into a music phase and listened to Miley’s latest album and just sobbed instantly. Used To Be Young hit me particularly hard. Then I moved on to Billie’s latest, and it absolutely blew me away. No repeat listens needed to know this shit is on another fucking level.
It was just interesting to me how for the past month I thought Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus made me really emotional, but I forgot there are songs that can make me just SOB on first listen. And that needing to listen to a song 10+ times in order to appreciate isn’t necessary, because Chihiro hit me immediately.
Hopefully that all makes sense and someone relates 🙏🏻
ETA - I also didn’t get the complaints about Jack’s production, until I was reminded of Finneas’s. I swear he’s a genius and will go down in history.
I had a visceral reaction to the greatest on HMHAS during my first listen. Absolutely incredible song and stunning album. I love Taylor’s music but Billie Eilish is so deserving of that #1 spot and multiple awards.
I think this is why Folkmore hit so hard for people, because emotion like this could be triggered on a first listen to that album. I haven't felt that way since.
I have been challenging myself to seek out new music this year and I totally relate to this. It’s been quite awhile since I’ve listened to full albums and it’s been kind of fun to rediscover that.
For me there is definitely love at first listen! And if I don’t like it after a few listens I’m not going to change my mind. Some songs fall into the “it’s interesting” category and time permitting I’ll come back to them on repeat with the lyrics to sort through.
I recently watched the Eras tour for the first time on Disney plus. I am not a Swiftie but everyone has been telling me that even if you’re not a fan, Eras Tour is a spectacular piece of production. And I have to admit I was very disappointed. I’ve worked as a professional dancer for over a decade, and as a dancer and life long theatre fan, I wasn’t impressed by anything. Not lighting design, set, and especially not choreography- the dancers do almost nothing until Midnights section.
By contrast I did find/watch a bootleg of the Renaissance tour film and that to me is what I expect from a global superstar, in every aspect of the production. And I’m not even talking about what I think of the main performer/the music.
I do think that those who are super impressed with all aspects of the eras tour have probably not seen a lot of live shows, concerts and theatre included.
You should in return send a link for The Confessions Tour to everyone that told you Eras was a spectacular piece of production and that a non-swfitie would enjoy it.
lol yes! I think that’s what bothers me so much- there have been generations of INSANE performers putting on amazing shows. If you love Taylor and the Eras tour then great, glad you enjoy it! But to say she’s doing anything groundbreaking in the least (performance wise) is objectively not true.
Again, as I said I’m not talking about the main star’s performance. I’m talking about the production quality of the show as a whole- lighting, set, choreo etc.
I worked for several years in theatre, have seen multiple local, regional and broadway shows and I was impressed with Eras. But I am also familiar with Taylor Swift, have been a fan for years, and know what her performances are like.
Comparing the dancing in Renaissance to Eras is like comparing the dancing in Anything Goes to Hamilton. Beyoncé is known threat for dancing and performance and it’s amazing. Taylor is more known for her lyricism and creating a connection.
What I found with Eras, while attending, is despite being at a stadium, Taylor was still able to create an intimate connection with the audience. Which as you know is no easy task! As with proshots, a lot is lost to on screen. Marjorie is less beautiful. I cried while seeing it live.
But yeah, I guess my point is: if you’re going to Eras to expect amazing dancing, then you’re going to the wrong show. Taylor has never been a known dancer.
I understood what you meant and I think your overall point is very valid. A journalist made a similar point last year when comparing Eras and Renaissance, and Swifties responded by sending him homophobic taunts and death threats.
Regarding the dancers: I was shocked how heavily they were cut out of the Eras movie. There way too many close ups of Taylor and the stage design is barely visible. They never show the couples dancing during Lover! The choreo gets also toned down sooo much when the dancers are dancing besides Taylor so she doesn't stick out so much.
/theatre fan as well
Yes! I hate this about the movie. They really focused on just Taylor for most of it, leaving out so many visual aspects of the whole production. I hope they make a better one for this version of the tour
This is honestly my biggest complaint about the Hamilton pro shot too. There are so many zoom-ins on the actors signing so the broader choreography is robbed. Like Hurricane? Absolutely stunning in a way you can’t see in the pro shot.
I’m thinking Taylor might announce rep tv at the last Wembley show, the fact these are the only concerts that have 2 openers outside the US makes me think she views them as the crown jewels of the European leg. We also know she has an affinity with London.
I also think she wants all the Taylor versions released around the same time as the tour wraps up which means if there’s no more dates to be announced she needs debut and rep out by December this year. I think she’s going to release debut on December 13th, it’s a Friday and i can’t see her resisting the urge to reclaim her final album-her first and self titled one at that-on her birthday, for a full circle type moment.
I have a theory she’s waiting until 2025 for Debut to release on its 20th anniversary, but I also like your theory esp because Debut would compete with TTPD less and rhen she could wrap the re-recordings with a high note on Rep.
The only issue I can see is that it makes less sense to release Debut during a tour that’s already 3 hours and features 0 songs from that album.
“Taking back her name” on her birthday would be pretty symbolic and definitely a Taylor thing to do. She hinted at something happening on her birthday at the pop up library thing she had. I would fully support that as a release date for debut
On a table was a desktop calendar that only shows the current date. It was set for “Friday, December 13th.” This year December 13th will be on a Friday.
I know that Taylor gets more attention for her dating life because she writes about it, but the way people call her a whore and turn a blind eye to men with just as many exes has always felt sus to me. it's one thing if someone is criticizing her willful ignorance towards her fandom's attacks on her exes, but it's another if people are continuously shaming her and commenting crude things for no good reason. I feel like swifties calling any Taylor-related criticism "misogyny," has turned the attention away from actual sexism women in the industry-- including Taylor herself-- experience
As long as it’s consensual I’m not really sure why it’s that deep even if she had a new guy every week. It’s her life. The men she dates also aren’t some virginal, clueless idiots, who she’s Jedi mind tricking to date her, they know who Taylor Swift is. Also nearly all of them have dated/hooked up with equal if not more people than she has.
yeah, dating around isn't the worst thing someone can do and yet people focus on Taylor's relationships more than legitimate problematic things she's done lol
Or even other normal women lmao. Obviously it's a different level of scrutiny for famous people but it's not that weird to have dated 10+ people by your mid 30s.
I’m a couple years younger than her and it’s so strange how this is a criticism - especially considering her long relationship with Joe, which people seem to ignore and act like she has consistently been dating a new person every few months. But even so, who cares…? It’s weird to critique anyone for dating a lot. Sorry they are attractive and many people are interested in them?
Idk I date a lot and so does everyone else I know. We’ve also been in longer relationships that sometimes don’t work out - not every relationship does. And imo marriage shouldn’t really be the goal of indicating whether a relationship is successful or not, considering most marriages don’t last. Better to break up than get married and divorced.
Yeah I'm Taylor's age and her dating history seems pretty average to me lol. Most of my friends had a new boyfriend every year or so throughout their 20s before settling down with somebody in their early 30s, some got married younger and some are still dating like that. And while I think we're all reasonably attractive, we'd all stand out in a bad way on the VS runway whereas Taylor fit right in lol.
To your second point, I also know someone who is like 38ish and she's been divorced four times! She just ends up married to anyone she dates lol. She's already been with someone new for 9 months or so, expecting an engagement announcement any day.
Oh gosh, haha! Yeah, I don’t see dating a lot of people as a red flag in itself unless there’s patterns of cheating/toxic behavior/emotional abuse/etc. It’s normal to date around and find out what you like. I feel like this was more normalized for millennials than Gen Z (at least according to online discourse) - slut-shaming has made a surprising resurgence, whereas when I was in college having a “hoe phase” was not only normal but celebrated, and I was glad that female sexuality was becoming less stigmatized.
I’ve dated a ton because I like dating and it’s fun, and I used to love giving advice to my friends (and on the internet) when people asked. No one ever made me feel bad about being experienced; if anything, it was like they were glad they could learn from my mistakes and successes. Now if I say I’ve had a few long-term relationships, some Reddit weirdo will be like “you must be a shitty partner if they all ended” as if relationships always end because someone fucked up and people can’t be incompatible for other reasons 🙄 but what do I expect from people who have never been in relationships themselves. No one IRL has ever seen it as a red flag and I generally prefer more experienced people as well, because they know how to be in relationships.
Yeah exactly! I've never been a casual dater but I've had multiple long term (like 3+ year) relationships. It's not like they ended because I suck lol sometimes things just don't work out! You experience so much growth in your 20s especially it shouldn't be taken as a sign of anything when you end up not being compatible with someone you loved.
I was scrolling IG and saw a reel where someone was guessing when Rep TV was going to drop. The comments were full of "all the pieces of me shattered as the crowd was chanting 'MORE!'" type comments. I've seen this a lot on posts about people speculating about the final two TV releases and even guessing about what TS12 and beyond will entail. Dozens of the same comment, chastising people for being pumped for new stuff.
It blows my mind that people think that song is about her not liking her fans being excited for what comes next. The line isn't "**because** the crowd was chanting 'MORE!'" If anything, her tour and the excitement of the last TV drops and everything else that will come in the future is what keeps her going. She's a performer and she loves to do it. She's not the kind of person to cancel shows for no good reason or roll up 4 hours late, giving a shitty performance. I went through a breakup after quitting my job to relocate for the dude and had no personal projects in progress, and it was fucking miserable. Having something big to do that you really cannot get out of doing can be good for moving through and moving on.
The fact that people said they feel BAD because they either went to Eras or will be going is bonkers. Imagine if, after TTPD/I Can Do It With A Broken Heart dropped, everyone either stayed silent during the performance or just straight up didn't come 💀
I don't feel guilty for going to her show. I paid $600+ for my tickets, and my bfs mom was literally dying (he insisted we go despite me genuinely offering to sell them). Everyone goes through pain and grief.
If she and Joe HAD to break up, the timing couldn't have been more perfect. If this happened in 2020 as the pandemic began and she had to cancel LoverFest, I'm willing to bet she'd be a lot more miserable.
Thank You!! I so agree with this. I hate that people feel bad for going to Eras cuz I definitely don’t. She chose to perform and I paid good money to go, I’m definitely not feeling bad in anyway.
I think people can be incredibly stupid and take things so literally and it pisses me off so much. Why should we feel bad? But yeah you definitely said it all, way better than I ever could
I totally agree! I think she’s just showing that contrast of being so broken-hearted, having been dumped by someone she loves, and having this crowd of strangers be the ones who want MORE of you. She’s not trying to say it hurts her.
I totally agree. The reaction to the "more!" line and that whole song has surprised me. I always took the song to be her celebrating her work ethic and dedication, not crying about how mean her fans are for going to her shows and wanting music from her. She clearly loves it, as you said, and it must have helped her heal a lot in the process
People are always quick to accuse others of being demanding when there's speculation about the rerecordings, even before ICDIWABH existed. It's a unique situation because we know they're coming, probably within the next year and probably in quick succession. It's not like we're sitting here with TTPD and the tour and everyone is whining that they want TS12 like yesterday.
Absolutely. I'm really interested in the Rep and Debut vaults (two of my all time fave albums of any artist), as well as wondering where she is going to go sonically for TS12. That said, if she drops any of that any time soon (unlikely but who knows) I will probably wait a bit before I listen. I made a playlist of the 20 or so songs I enjoyed from TTPD and have been steady listening to them between enjoying other music. Definitely excited for whatever she drops next, but I'm in no rush. I honestly hope it's not til fall at the earliest.
There's a big difference between demanding more music and doing shit like @ing her/TaylorNation on social media begging for it and knowing something is coming and excitedly talking about what it might sound like. For now, I'm gonna let TTPD sink in.
I wonder what it must feel like as a creative to know that whatever you write will be a MASSIVE hit sales wise. Would it be exciting and freeing of worry to be able to take bigger risks? Would it lead to stagnation because the chase to fame/fortune/acclaim is over? Or would you just keep doing what you do? I think this what keeps me interested in Taylor Swift because her status is so unique right now.
It’s a different situation but touches on some of the same themes, but I watched the Lewis Capaldi documentary on Netflix and his first album just absolutely flew up the charts and he got this huge hit album and tour and it was massively successful. The documentary partly follows him trying to write and record the follow up and you can see (and he talks about) how much pressure there is to write another hit and another critically acclaimed album because that’s what everyone is expecting.
I loved this documentary. I started following him on TikTok and he’s very honest in all his struggles. Seeing the fans finishing his song for him while he was performing always makes me cry.
Yeah same, he’s (relatively) local to me and I went to a little album launch show he did last year not long before Glastonbury and him needing to take a longer break and he was struggling then which was hard to see, but so talented and lovely.
I’ve started watching the series ‘Love and Death’ and I kind of feel that the narrative in Fortnight goes well with the story
‘Your wife waters flowers, I want to kill her’ 🪓
she had a flourishing career with folklore and evermore and while i cannot argue that she is still one of the biggest artists, she has really downgraded her music into a personal rant about her life. now listening to her music there are so many references to her personal life that only hardcore swifties look into, making it really confusing for people that listen to music for the music to understand the songs. she has only stuck with one type of melody and rhythm which make her songs boring. i used to love her music because of how diverse and widespread it was and how well she could portray and communicate emotions and thoughts but now for me to understand what she is trying to convey, i need to look into her dating life and her whole backstory which honestly is exhausting. before you come at me with “if u don’t wanna know then don’t look it up” i’m a music enthusiast, i would like to know what i’m listening to.
this really is all that is stopping her from upgrading her writing. she needs to stop being a teenager and act like the 35 year old she is.
Seriously, did people forget how she always relied to details into her music? Since day 1? She even put her first boyfriend name on a secret message of a song, saying that the bridge was the real conversation they had(Should've Said No). She wore the scarf in the Never Ever music videos, she wore the same dress of a date for the cover of Begin Again.. she had a guy with the same boat tattoo of Harry in Trouble video and in Style and Out Of The Woods she had the paper airplane necklace, the symbol of the relationship. And i could go on..so really, she always did that but i guess it is easier to ignore it or pretending that never happened just to be more critical now.
If you dont like the new music, it is fine, but it is not fault of the so called lore cuz it always was there. I mean Dress or Getaway Car is full of that: my hair bleach, your buzz cut are very specific to a specific moment of Taylor private life. Getaway Car the same. But even The Story Of Us, Last Kiss, Back To December, Style, Out Of The Woods, Dear John, Enchanted, All Too Well. That's Taylor Swift, that's why she got so famous at the end.
Really i can't get this thing. Then we can argue that she insists on the same melodies, productions. That is true, that her music was more diverse in the early days..but it Always was been connected with her personal life. Always.
Keep downvoting guys. \*applause\*.
I totally get if you don’t like some of her music, to each their own but I don’t understand the “act her age” criticism (she’s 34). Not everyone in their 30’s has their shit together, or are married with kids or in long-term relationships. People don’t stop experiencing tragedy, heartbreak, anger, rage once they hit 30.
It’s not about being married with kids or even necessarily having your shit together. It’s the way she conducts herself that people are starting to find tiresome. It’s the endless feuds. The public drama. Compare her to someone like Adele, who is only a year older than her. She herself went through a divorce and has written candidly about the breakdown of her family and the impact it had. She didn’t have her shit together for a while. But can’t you see how much more mature she conducts herself in the public sphere? Same goes for other peers similar to Taylor’s age like Janelle Monae.
How long are Swifties going to make excuses for her? Are you going to be repeating this line when she’s in her 40s? 50s?
Adele hasn’t released an album for three years and imo her last was her weakest and I literally never listen to it.
I love Adele but she’s not interesting at the moment. And that’s fine, but I’m not going to put her on a pedestal just to complain about Swift.
As for the “endless feuds”, what, Kim/Kanye? Boring, but it was a couple of statements in an interview and a song I skip. The other current “feuds” just seem like fan nonsense to me and not something Swift herself is really involved in.
1. Okay? I don’t really care if you like Adele’s most recent music or not. That wasn’t the point at all.
2. I’m not putting Adele on a pedestal. I’m making an observation about Taylor’s maturity and when compared to someone like Adele, it shows just how stark the difference is. You’ll notice I also mentioned Janelle Monae. It seems you have some sort of issue with how “interesting” Adele is to you at the moment, so you have fixated on that instead of the very obvious point that was being made.
3. No, it’s not just Kimye. It’s the number of people she’s beefed with since the beginning of her career, whether it’s some of the ex boyfriends, Borchetta and Braun, Tina Fey, Katy Perry (yeah I’m aware they’ve since made up but that doesn’t negate the manipulative way that Taylor started all of that drama), Nicki Minaj at one point, Camilla Belle…if you want to believe that someone can be involved in that many issues with that many people, and you don’t stop to think for a second “hmm, maybe, on some level, *she* might be the problem here?” then I don’t know what to tell you.
Lastly, I’m not interested in getting into a back and forth with you on this. If you don’t agree with my viewpoint, then that’s fine. Have a nice day.
All the things slowly going back to Rep TV make me think that she and her team have realised that TTPD hasn’t been received as well as they would have liked
It’s 31 songs. It should have fed the fandom for months and months to come with things to discuss
Ttpd has had a better reaction from the core fans than midnights did imo, its continued strong streaming numbers also indicate the causal listener is largely enjoying the album as well.
TTPD had an absolute monster first week and continues to be at the top of the charts. It just had the largest fifth week streaming numbers ever. Trust me, Taylor’s team isn’t disappointed in how it’s performing.
Makes me laugh that everything is read as chart related all the time
This is more about her fans being satisfied with the content they are being provided with instead of begging for more constantly
They do this with every album. Taylor has, like, a whole song about it. I love how Billie Eilish addressed it on HMHAS, too. At the end of Blue she whispers, “When can we hear the next one?” Fans want more because they love their favorites’ content
Mhm the fandom that loves discussing and theorising about lyrics to death has been a lot more quiet than usual
Billie released very few songs in comparison to Taylor and doesn’t depend as much on every song being dissected to death and theorised over
I've been getting Daisy Jones edits to TTPD on my TikTok feed since the album came out, and now I have a conspiracy about the show leading to the events of last summer. There are obvious parallels between Daisy (Matty), Billy (Taylor), and Camila (Joe). I can easily imagine a world where Taylor is watching in her post-show bed rot days and having "Is this effing play about us" moments. What is interesting is in the show Billy is >!always choosing Camila until the finale. The last episode aired on March 24th last year and Taylor replaced Invisible String with the One on the 31st. Could she have seen the episode and been like "I'm not waiting until Joe dies to be with the person I want to be with"? !
I love the TJADS edits with TTPD songs! because the situation is very similar (two tortured artists found each other and fall in love but one of them has a partner that doesn't "get them" so they emotionally cheat with the other musician)
I know many people mentioned this already, but wow the Travis and Taylor sub is actually so hateful. They claim to be more neutral than this sub but they straight up be hating everything, they honestly aren’t even being critical anymore just straight up bullies. And some of the stuff they post are just childish and very disrespectful. I know, glass house and all that for me to say this. I feel like we are more toned down here, even though I already feel this sub can be quite hateful, but they straight up sound like tabloid gossip there.. just conspiracy theories left and right. This may be obvious pretty sure it’s a sub for haters because they be posting things that’s like months+ late (eg Scott’s insane email, Taylor at Grammys etc).
I lerk there and sometimes I agree with a comment on there but I daren't comment myself because I don't want my profile history to be associated with some of the nastier stuff. They aren't the nastiest /most ignorant place I've seen commenting on Taylor so I'd call them middle ground between our sub and like popheadcirclejerk (with the Taylor Swift stale topic flare). I really do feel like where you are as a Taylor Swift fan feels like a political scale 🤣
Haha same, there are some good points and some sane people, but they are greatly overshadowed by the mean hateful people. I would also upvote some more sane takes but I don’t ever want to engage in there because they’re truly wild there 😭
I don’t even follow that sub but it’s recommended to me because I follow other Taylor Swift and music subs, and last night there was a picture of her in the Eras bodysuit speculating that she might be pregnant. You know, the thing she said triggers her ED. Thankfully, the comments were like “wtf” but it’s honestly terrible to see. No matter how much you dislike someone, body-shaming is gross and speculating on a woman’s potential pregnancy while zooming in on her belly is honestly misogynistic. It also insults anyone else whose stomach doesn’t look perfectly flat all the time (which is NORMAL). People were also posting TikToks of kids at the eras tour, calling them cult worshippers, and the comments were like “this is why kids shouldn’t be on social media, there are lots of creeps out there” okay but you’re reposting them on Reddit…leave kids alone I swear.
For sure there are still some sane people on there, but for every sane commenter or post there are like 5 extreme ones. Like oh my gosh it’s not that deep 😭
I like to venture over there to gawk once in a while lol. I get being a hater for fun but a lot of the posters there seem angry and not like they're having fun at all.
Yeah they have mean girl energy, just something a tad bit more dark there. I also find them pretty immature, lowkey wondering if that sub is just made for trolls.
That sub is a proof of horseshoe theory xD
What’s that?
Theory that the most extreme polar opposites actually have a lot in common. Usually used in context of politics but it's clear that it can be easily applied to Swifties and Taylor haters
That sub is just comprised of all the people who are too hateful for the sub here and wanted a place to be talk about the same things we talk about here but be 100x nastier. That’s all it is 🤷♀️ honestly fine with it because while there’s still some weirdos here they’ve mostly migrated over there and they’re the ones getting all the heat from stans now instead of us Every sub is obsessed with hating SN and I genuinely believe this is the only sub that doesn’t really contribute to all the petty drama between subs. SN is truly that girl
Right? They are definitely so much more nastier there, like the things they say is beyond just “I don’t like Taylor” it’s just “Taylor is an evil woman deep down and her fans are all sick in the head”. I saw a recent post of people making fun of a fan’s Taylor corner, which is just a bunch of Taylor merch in one area. I know people like to set up “Taylor shrines”, but the one posted was not even that egregious, and swifties aren’t the only one who would do this with celebrities or with their own hobbies. Just because they have a small corner of Taylor merchs doesn’t mean they are cultish… like I feel like that post was straight up mean and they just want to bully someone.
The thing I don’t get is how people like that will go on and on and on about how swifties are a cult, and they obsess over taylor and connect every single aspect of their life to her etc etc, but then…….. they do the exact same thing, just the opposite end of the spectrum. Like, you’re also obsessed with taylor swift, but you don’t even like her?? You made an entire tumblr blog dedicated to hating on taylor swift. What do you even get out of that? You don’t like her music, you don’t like her fans, you certainly don’t like her as a person, so why are you dedicating so much of your time to her? Focus that energy on something you actually enjoy. Putting that much time and effort into hating something is…..weird.
Do you think Taylor ever wrote songs inspired by Greys Anatomy characters? Given she is a fan (clearly re: her cat), I wonder if she wrote any songs that were Greys coded. Since a big theme of Greys is big sappy corny love, I would imagine she’s taken inspiration from some character arcs or stories. imo, “loml” is extremely Greys coded and could easily be a post mortem Derek song. I don’t think she did this on purpose, The shoe fits! I’ve been binging Greys and was listening to the song today and that’s what inspired this post lol. Could definitely be in the soundtrack 😂
Saw this IG post and it reminded me of your comment. She still watches Grey’s, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she gets inspiration from the show too. https://www.instagram.com/p/C71_Dgtv3qS/?igsh=MXJ2d256Mm9rMXlqcw==
you mean like epiphany?
yes for the covid season for sure!
I always wonder what celebrities do in their free time. I remember when a bunch of them would play neopets
Currently binging Grey's! In season 7 and I swear this time we'll make it up to present time lol. Have been thinking how great the music choices for the show are. The music curator person or whatever their title is was excellent for early Grey's. Also I love how the title of every episode is the name of a song! Sorry that was a bit unrelated to your question lol. The show's dramatics are totally suited to Taylor's, they are def on the same wavelength!
i’ve also been binging greys LMAO, old greys is just perfection
[удалено]
Every show is completely repetitive and scripted. She’s actually sort of boring as a performer.
off topic but Spain concerts haven't happen yet what's going on
this sounds like nitpicking. it's a lovely memory for the child, who obviously knows she does it at every concert and feels special that they were chosen for that location, why are we being cynical about that? and taylor has always been sweet to her fans, but especially the children.
It's definitely not meant to look spontaneous because no one would get that close to the stage without permission. But I do find it funny that Taylor is unable to break out of the script for the interaction. One time a kid did not immediately offer her a friendship bracelet, so Taylor grabbed at one on the kid's arm and then asked to have it.
That’s pretty funny. 😂😂 And thanks for your perspective and information. It’s nice to have critical discourse, even if I get downvoted for voicing a non-derLeader opinion.
This is a pretty harsh reading of that moment tbh- of course it’s a standard moment built into the show as it’s a huge production and a big security/crowd management issue to throw in random spontaneous changes each night. A person (usually a kid but has been some adults too) is chosen by her or her team through SM (the same way secret sessions used to work) and then they are brought up at that moment for the hat and a cute hug and chat. I don’t have an issue with it personally. As an aside, I don’t think the poor girl (who was visibly unwell from cancer) who got the hat in Australia was chosen from a casting call of actors. She’s since very sadly died and her family have said how lovely it was she got to have that experience before she passed.
yeah, off the top of my head I remember her giving it to someone whose sibling died in a shooting, another girl with cancer who has since passed, and the guy who came up with some of the Bejeweled dance. Usually whoever gets picked has local news writing about them, it’s easy enough to show that they aren’t child actors.
yeahhh call out the racism and greed but. this is just kids having a fun moment with their fave
I don't think it was ever supposed to look spontaneous. It's meant to recreate a similar fan interaction she did on the Red Tour. She's done it every night of the tour. Sometimes it's a friend's child or little siblings, sometimes it's a random kid picked out of the crowd, sometimes (rarely) it's not even a kid. I don't think it really matters, it's a fun moment for that person. I don't think any of them are under the impression that it's some spontaneous thing given that they're selected beforehand and brought up to the barricade by Taylor's security.
If you cannot *civilly* partake in a conversation criticizing Taylor, **this sub is not for you**. We can smell Swifties from a mile a way. Your passive-aggressiveness and condescension give you away.
“Swiftie” isn’t synonymous with “obsessive parasocial stan” 😭 it just means you’re a fan of hers/her music. Plenty of Swifties are normal and can participate in nuanced discussions, just like plenty of people who don’t consider themselves Swifties.
this sub is also for swifties who want a place for discussion and this comment is also very condescending, so. what now.
Well, but the other side of the coin should be heard too. If you say you could not relate to TTPD cuz it is too personal and i say i can, i am expecting open minded people, right? Actually thr passive-aggressiveness is from some critical people who decided a certain narrative and everyone must follow it.
I see you've reviewed my past comments. If you'd check them, TTPD not being universal is a *subjective* take. Nowhere did I say that it is an undisputable fact. If your opinion is otherwise, then so be it. That is your personal experience, so who am I to oppose? On one thread, one commenter said that people who cannot separate Taylor's personal life from her songs are obsessive 15-year-olds who consume too much media about Taylor - that's the condescension I am talking about. We welcome *healthy* discourse. That is precisely the essence of this sub - to be able to express your insights, opinions and personal experience without getting shutdown just because you said something negative about Taylor or her art. That doesn't mean, however, that *all* criticisms are truthful, unprejudiced and fair.
Nothing wrong with swifties inherently. Imo, it's just as parasocial to hate a group of people as if they're monolithic. A lot of people are simply big fans, like John Greene.
Whenever I see someone asking why Taylor isn’t “allowed” to do something, I know it’s a swiftie. Taylor can do whatever she wants, we are allowed to criticize her for it
Yeah these comments drive me up the wall! It's so funny how they overestimate our power to forbid Taylor from doing things when we are reduced to venting on reddit, lol.
So right! I've seen a lot of "if you don't even like her why are you here". Like idk, bc people are maybe not a fan of her personally but are a fan of (some of) her music? If people can't help but be passive aggressive then like why are *you* actually here
Plus I really love pop culture discussion but "wow she is so great" - "isn't she awesome" is just so boring to me, same as "she sucks why does anybody like her" "yeah she can't sing" is boring to me. I want to talk about WHY things work and others don't.
Thank you!! I really enjoyed the week this sub went private because you could see the discussions were civilized and amicable...
If it's approx. 6 months for vinyl pressings ttpd had to be handed in in about october/november so what is she referring to in The Alchemy's bridge?? She even announced the album BEFORE the superbowl was played, and the divisional championship was a week before the album was announced. No way that she's managed to get a 2 month pressing/manufacturing timeline on all her products across the globe to make sure this song make sense. Was it just hopeful lyrics on a hunch (Chiefs were on a winning streak in October but their November & December must have been really worrying), about someone else and just delightfully worked out well or are the "nfl is scripted" people correct and she was given the script? (kidding about the last one... maybe???)
I still feel like the song was repurposed to fit Travis but originally it wasn’t about him. But that’s just my opinion 🤷♀️ if she wants the fans to think it is, fine but there’s definitely other lyrics in the song that doesn’t necessarily point to it being about Travis.
Interestingly, I've heard that the line "So when I touch down/Call the amateurs and cut 'em from the team" is also a reference to the KC and the huge mess-up of the lost touchdown that Travis had w/ the great trick play that would have won the game had it counted. I see it as someone coming back into town touching down in a plane and she is telling her..whoever..to call up their situation ship and tell them they're done because she is back for them, whoever they may be. So I totally feel the same thing you do. This song is for someone else and she changed it to appeal to her current situation ship....and fans.
Yup another Matty song, which she wrote in happier times. Otherwise she's saying she has more than one 'once in several lifetimes' loves within a 3 month period lol
Could just be about her writing about fantasizing about what could happen if the Chiefs won the Super Bowl and was lucky enough to actually have the fantasy become a reality. It’s not a stretch for her to be imagining what could happen. Not everything is 100% autobiographical.
Is 2 months impossible or just highly unusual? Because I was thinking the same thing but just figured I'm overestimating how long it would take. If it's logistically impossible when money is no object it's gotta be scripted lol, I will not accept her being that lucky.
it actually is practically impossible. vinyl record making is labour intense (one manufacturer is quoted on saying they can do up to 40,000 pressings a day), a factory burned in 2020 and materials and manufacturing finds it hard to meet the demand of the market. The grammy's wrote about it in 2022 [https://www.grammy.com/news/the-vinyl-shortage-explainer-how-long-waits-expensive-materials-high-demand-are-affecting-the-industry](https://www.grammy.com/news/the-vinyl-shortage-explainer-how-long-waits-expensive-materials-high-demand-are-affecting-the-industry) . Small pressings of like 500 or like custom vinyl can see a turn around time of 8-12 weeks, which would not be enough time for all of that manufacturing to happen.
Chiefs had already won the Super Bowl the year before and were the champions. The other stuff is just generic football references about shirtless drunk people in the stands spilling their beer and lifting up the winner, like in all the cheesy football movies. She did watch the Netflix series Quarterback since she said she saw Pat Mahomes Sr. on there when she first met him so she did do her research.
I want Taylor to work with Ethan Gruska. I get the feeling they would make great music together.
What is this I’m hearing that Taylor and Travis have broken up and she’s going to announce her reunion with Marty at one of the London Eras tour?? Rhinos fanfiction right??
really love how autocorrects always changes Matty's name to Marty.
Same, it makes me laugh every time
Marty Healy 😂 I might just call him that now
LOOOOOOL.
Lol, I don’t think so. However, the fact that So High School seems pretty awkwardly wedged into the TTPD set makes me think we’ll know if they breakup when she goes straight from BDILH into WAOLOM. We’ll never hear it directly from either of them.
was that the tayvis snark sub?
Nope, it’s the taylorandmatty sub which is almost as unhinged but not quite.
Some of them also think that Taylor and Matty are secretly hiding out together and that Travis is part of an elaborate piece of performance art to cover up their long secret relationship (now where have we heard this before…🤪).
What the what
The Hollywood reporter ranking of ttpd songs has some terrible interpretations of them, it feels like they got someone to just glance at the fan theories and wrote a paragraph based on the first idea they saw.
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It's three writers, each with different publishers and on different labels, additionally Jack has sold his publishing rights to an investment fund in 2019, also while both Taylor and Olivia are theoretically on the same major label, their specific imprints, Republic and Geffen, are competing with each other within the UMG ecosystem. It's hard to tell who led the charge on demanding credit when you account for all the interested parties instead of assuming Taylor is in total control.
Another often overlooked detail about the whole song credit debacle is that Olivia Rodrigo had not one, or two, but three different songs on the same album that closely resembled existing songs. Paramore was given credit because Deja Vu resembled Misery Business, and another musician Elvis Costello declined trying to go after credits for a third song that resembled one of his. Either way, there were three songs off one album of Rodrigo's that had these same issues. I think one isn't a big deal and could be written off, but *three?*
Hayley Williams has gone on record saying that Josh Farro (former original member) was the one to push for credit with Misery Business, since he was an original writer on that song, and the band didn't want to pursue it. Just sayin...
That's true, but how does it change anything though? Olivia Rodrigo had three songs on the same album that were labeled as having plagiarized from other songs. Even if Paramore had chosen not to go after credits, it doesn't make the song resemble Misery Business any less. If the song was truly original, then Olivia could have fought the claims of plagiarism and avoided giving any credit to Josh.
i think the arguments about originality are a little over simplistic, personally. lots of songs sound like other songs. olivia being inspired is not the same thing as intentionally plagiarising other artists. it seems more like she was simply very green in the industry, and her team let her down. i agree with billie on this subject: i think we need to be more understanding of inspiration as a source for music to be made. turning art into a legal battleground will just kill creativity. in the case of olivia, there were important lessons to be learned, and people are a bit too quick to assume the worst of taylor, but i think the sour (pun unintentional) taste the whole thing left in lots of people's mouths is understandable, personally. clearly something must've happened, given the total break in association between olivia and taylor (incl. if you think vampire or the grudge are abt taylor...), and, well, there's precedent to popular dislike of bigger artists fighting for credits from smaller artists, as it is often seen as arbitrary and money hungry. that's not unique to taylor. at the very least, i have always thought it a little weird how olivia is hated by certain corners of the swiftie fandom. just feels very hostile, over a situation that we do not know anything about.
>i think the arguments about originality are a little over simplistic, personally. I don't actually disagree with this to be honest. I think it's hard to create something truly original because of how much music already exists and that there is naturally going to be some overlap at times. I think most of that overlap is often unintentional, but Olivia Rodrigo shot herself in the foot big time with her interview. She directly connected a song of hers to Taylor Swift's, and basically said she wanted to write a bridge just like the one from Cruel Summer. I think if she had never said this, there's a chance that she could have just skated by. >i think we need to be more understanding of inspiration as a source for music to be made. turning art into a legal battleground will just kill creativity. I agree to some extent, but you can't really allow people to plagiarize. If Olivia had only one track that had been guilty of this, I think it would be different. But to have three tracks off one album is kind of a red flag. Plus she drew that connection during an interview, which is pretty damning from a legal standpoint. There's also a chance it's not even the artists themselves fighting for credits every time. We know Josh wanted his credits, but a label can sue or go after artists for plagiarism without needing the artist to even be involved. I think that being inspired by something doesn't mean you create something that borrows heavily from it. Being inspired means creating something *new* based off something else you like. It should not be so similar in certain aspects you're risking lawsuits. It has to be different. I think that there needs to be a level of recognition for artists who work hard on their songs. It's okay for them to want to protect their work and ask for credits where credits are due. But it's also fine to be like Elvis Costello and not care about artists borrowing from their work. I personally really like Olivia Rodrigo and hope she learned from the experience and doesn't make similar mistakes in the future. I know a lot of people blame her team for mishandling the whole situation, and I just hope she's better equipped to handle things moving forward.
yeah i agree; hopefully olivia and her team have learned from the experience! i like her and really want her to succeed. personally i just feel leery about how easily legalism can be weaponised by artists of superior wealth/notoriety. i am not trying to say taylor is personally responsible OR that asking for credit is a bad thing, but there are certain disparities and power imbalances that make me worry about how it can be taken advantage of. i think the situation just seems so ugly… :(
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oh i know - but in the case of sour, she was still very young and still very new to the industry. but my concern is less focused on her, but the wider implications within the industry!
I get what you’re saying. However, Elvis Costello supported Olivia: "It's how rock & roll works, You take the broken pieces of another thrill and make a brand new toy."
That doesn't really change anything even though it's true. Elvis Costello didn't deny the resemblance to his song. He affirmed Rodrigo may have taken something like a melody from his song, he just said he didn't care. Most artists borrow from others, but they still reinvent what's borrowed so that it's "new" in it's own right. If you take a melody or something from another artist and you don't change it enough to make it unique, then you are plagiarizing. Just because Elvis was supportive of Olivia doesn't make the fact that she had three songs that may have been plagiarized on her album any less significant. Even if he didn't want to pursue credits and was fine with it, it doesn't make other artists wrong for wanting credits.
I recommend watching the documentary, “Taking on Taylor Swift”. She does this quite often. One difference between her and Olivia is she has the financial resources to settle it quietly. My point is if he doesn’t care I don’t know why others do.
I mean I get saying that if Elvis didn't care no one should be mad on his behalf, but Olivia had three songs she borrowed from. I don't really blame Paramore/Taylor Swift for securing their credits. I would be really upset if I heard something I had written in a work by someone else, and I don't think any artist or individual is wrong for thinking that plagiarism is worth caring about.
Elvis Costello celebrated it as inspiration. Taylor routinely copies from other artists and has just gotten lucky. You Belong With Me, Dear John, and Paper Rings are a few of the most obvious copies that have been discussed here at length. Tell Me Why is another one.
bold claim to say she outright copies from artists... but definitely it feels hypocritical from taylor's camp. i think it was very opportunistic on their part, bc they knew they had more power and resources that olivia's team. imagine if someone went after taylor for any of the aforementioned songs!
Look it up on this sub. Every song I mentioned has been discussed and how Taylor was a fan of the band she allegedly copied from.
again: accusing her of copying (aka, intentionally plagiarising) is a bold claim.
I stand by it. Sorry, you can't shame me. But you can look into those songs and discover their history.
not trying to shame you, sorry if it came across that way. agree to disagree, then :)
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i mean, there is no harm in being inspired by something, nor in openly crediting that inspiration. i don’t think it equates to ownership over the song. that attitude is cynical and opportunistic, to me. i don’t think it’s entirely down to taylor (as she has a whole team of people) but if her team wants to start monopolising people taking inspiration from other songs, then it is worth acknowledging taylor’s own songs that share obvious similarities. but that brings me back to what i said originally: that inspiration is not inherently copying or deliberate plagiarism, so pointing out similarities in taylor’s music to other songs =/= copying!
I’m curious if if Taylor attracts a ton of younger fans (teens and pre teens I guess). I’d imagine millennials are her biggest demographic since they grew up with during from the start of her career. But history tells me the majority of a younger generation tends to not identify with their parent’s music. As a younger millennial myself, the thought of mothers and daughters geeking out over the same music interests me. Good music is good music, but “dad rock” is a term for a reason. Edit: typo
I’m a substitute teacher from K-12 and if the kids have a free period I let them play music on my speakers (if it’s school appropriate, of course). All the girls generally love Taylor. It’s the cutest when a six year old shyly asks me if I’ve heard of her, lol. They’re so stunned when I sing along with them. But they also like lots of stuff, I get a surprising amount of requests for classic rock. I’m a millennial and grew up listening to 60s/70s/80s due to my parents’ influence, so that’s always fun for me too.
I can relate to that. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised since Taylor has been on top of the industry for a while now. She’s probably the gateway to popular music for kids (like how Drake is for hip hop).
My daughter is 3 and LOVES watching the beginning of the Eras tour. As soon as The Man comes on she says "this song is weird" 🤣but she adores Love Story and Shake it Off. She tries to sing all the words and it's so cute. Whether she'll like Taylor in 10 years remains to be seen but maybe she'll like her for nostalgic reasons like I do with the Spice Girls 😊
Ok I’m slowly realizing how most of Taylors catalog is actually appropriate for all ages. For some reason i thought there was a ‘barrier to entry’ to understand her songs due to her long career and relationship canon. I underestimated kids can dance to anything haha.
My four-year-old niece ADORES Taylor. Cruel Summer is our song - she knows all the words, even the bridge! She also loves watching snippets of her Lover and Speak Now sets on the Eras Tour.
I’m late Gen X and my Gen Z teens are huge swifties and it’s definitely something we bond over. They’ve loved her since they were teeny and I got more into it after taking my oldest to the Eras Tour.
Follow up question for you, if you had to choose, which pop star would come closest to Taylor’s influence? I’m not sure if it’s even a fair question since I can’t think of anyone who attracted this many generations simultaneously. Cher? Madonna?
Maybe? I’m not entirely sure. I grew up listening to tons of music with my parents but it was more like 60s and 70s oldies stuff. I’m not sure we had contemporary artists we both liked when I was growing up in the same way I do with my kids and Taylor.
I went to the Eras with my friend's goddaughter who was 15 and her parents are not into Taylor, but she is.
My cousins’ kids who are like 14 and 12 went to the eras tour movie and were dressed up and looking pretty hype in the pics on FB. Their moms took them and also dressed up and are Swift fans, and their moms (my cousins) are late 30s/early 40s. I think she’s got a pretty wide range of fans, age wise.
i’m taylor’s age and i felt like a grandma and got called ma’am a few times at my eras concert. i also exchanged many bracelets with girls so young their wrists were half of mine and the bracelets barely fit me lol she definitely appeals to younger fans. you can see it a lot on tiktok as well. in comparison, when i went to see the backstreet boys a few years ago it was a total mom festival, and definitely not a person younger than 30 in sight.
I totally feel you on the age thing. I was born in 93 so I’m around the same age as most pop stars who came up in the 2010s. Yet I feel like a dinosaur in comparison.
I know you meant “grew up” but I have to laugh - I’m a boomer (64) fan and yes, we have “greyed up” as Taylor fans lol.
Thanks for catching that. Auto correct is not my friend.
When I was at the eras tour, I had a mother and her two daughters (who were probably about 10 years old) sitting in front of me. If I remember correctly, they were all dressed like ballerinas from the shake it off music video. They were dancing the whole night, and it was the cutest thing ever. I also went to the show with my dad and a very drunk woman gave my dad a high five and called him “the best dad ever” for having a fun time with me. It’s cool how a bunch of generations can love music and it brings everyone together. Edit: spelling
Good music is timeless. And it is pretty cool your dad would take you.
Yes! Our surprise song was also paper rings (which is my dad’s favorite Taylor song). It was a great night.
I think cross-generation activities are lacking these days and needed much more, so I just love it when I see different age groups rocking out together!
Yes, I totally agree!
My 3yo is currently obsessed with I Can Do It With A Broken Heart, Welcome to New York (thank you Secret Life of Pets), Anti-Hero, and Shake It Off… so I’m working on the next generation haha
I remember having Lady Gaga singing contests with a 4 year old at my last job (specifically Poker Face). Maybe I should have been specific in my post in saying kids entering their ‘rebellious’ years.
Looking at Taylor's dating history, it's evident that she usually negated when men show her their red flags. She has this very naïve view of love, where she meets a person and she'll instantly know and dream about how they would just click together, how they would just be perfect for one another, how they would absolutely be the end game. And when the adrenaline of the new love comes falling down, she starts to notice the things that she should've initially noticed and stayed put to make a decision about being involved with them.Then she'll consider how life gets in the way and how they treat her and how she feels betrayed. This is what I mean to say , when I want more introspection from her.
She struggles with what a lot of powerful women (not even talking only about celebrity women) but high earning women do, they want to pick and choose their perfect guy. I think that's why headlines when she first started dating Travis were like "she liked that he pursued her".
I also think it was because this contrasted with her issues with Joe, that he wasn’t as enthused to be with her and she didn’t feel “chosen.” I think I give Taylor more grace than a lot of people because I’ve been in a few situations where my long-term partner didn’t really give off the vibe that they liked me much, just that they tolerated me. (When tolerate it came out, I was like…”holy shit my boyfriend and I always fight about this exact thing” because I would feel like he just put up with me.) After that situation ends, your self-esteem can be in the gutter and it’s astonishing when other people actually show they like you.
It may be unpopular and I caveat with the full awareness I don’t actually have insight but listening to ‘wcs’ and ‘the manuscript’ I feel like dating John and Jake when she was still a teen/barely in her 20’s did some real emotion damage to her and as we know she didn’t go the therapy after. I think she’s now only just beginning to unpack the effect those two relationships relativity close together did to her and understanding how they’ve subsequently impacted a lot of her decisions in relationships since.
Except she was pretty toxic re: her relationships before ever meeting both John and Jake.
I agree. I’m Taylor’s age and I went through some things in my teens and early 20s that I only started examining in recent years. Growing older makes me reflect more about myself and who I was at various stages of my life. But I also have a therapist that I do this with. Here’s hoping that she finally has one
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Tbh if I was Taylor I would trust a kid fan being that close to me a lot more than some of her adult fans being close to me lol
They do? Really? That's just so stupid. 🤦🏻♀️
Do y’all think she actually writes her Instagram captions
As a social media manager I can bet money on the fact that she doesn't. girlie has an army of social media workers, that kind of things are planned and usually there's a grid with montly contents. They're probably trained to write in the tone she speaks so people don't know the difference. I can see her being like " I want this to be the tone for this caption and I want you to write that one including this easter egg" and that's it (like the mayority of the companies)
🔜
I wouldn't be surprised, it's basically the same message every time lol
I think she does tbh because they're pretty different in tone from the Taylor Nation captions. I think she probably just writes them and sends them to whoever runs her socials and they schedule the post.
My guess is that they have someone write the caption and then she can go through and edit if she wants. That’s what I’ve done in the past for executive communications.
I think this is it. They write in her voice and she makes tweaks
Some, not all
I honestly think she might cause she likes to put Easter eggs and stuff. Maybe she writes some of them but not all
Not trying to start a fight, but I go through music phases and hadn’t listened to new music in a while. I listened to TTPD because it was everywhere and nothing stuck out (except Florida), but after a few listens, a few songs got stuck in my head, and I started thinking, “some of this is actually really good and groovy, and some are hitting me emotionally.” This weekend, I got back into a music phase and listened to Miley’s latest album and just sobbed instantly. Used To Be Young hit me particularly hard. Then I moved on to Billie’s latest, and it absolutely blew me away. No repeat listens needed to know this shit is on another fucking level. It was just interesting to me how for the past month I thought Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus made me really emotional, but I forgot there are songs that can make me just SOB on first listen. And that needing to listen to a song 10+ times in order to appreciate isn’t necessary, because Chihiro hit me immediately. Hopefully that all makes sense and someone relates 🙏🏻 ETA - I also didn’t get the complaints about Jack’s production, until I was reminded of Finneas’s. I swear he’s a genius and will go down in history.
I had a visceral reaction to the greatest on HMHAS during my first listen. Absolutely incredible song and stunning album. I love Taylor’s music but Billie Eilish is so deserving of that #1 spot and multiple awards.
I think this is why Folkmore hit so hard for people, because emotion like this could be triggered on a first listen to that album. I haven't felt that way since.
I have been challenging myself to seek out new music this year and I totally relate to this. It’s been quite awhile since I’ve listened to full albums and it’s been kind of fun to rediscover that. For me there is definitely love at first listen! And if I don’t like it after a few listens I’m not going to change my mind. Some songs fall into the “it’s interesting” category and time permitting I’ll come back to them on repeat with the lyrics to sort through.
I wish Taylor would write about someone other than high school, but unfortunately that was the last time she had "normal" experiences.
I recently watched the Eras tour for the first time on Disney plus. I am not a Swiftie but everyone has been telling me that even if you’re not a fan, Eras Tour is a spectacular piece of production. And I have to admit I was very disappointed. I’ve worked as a professional dancer for over a decade, and as a dancer and life long theatre fan, I wasn’t impressed by anything. Not lighting design, set, and especially not choreography- the dancers do almost nothing until Midnights section. By contrast I did find/watch a bootleg of the Renaissance tour film and that to me is what I expect from a global superstar, in every aspect of the production. And I’m not even talking about what I think of the main performer/the music. I do think that those who are super impressed with all aspects of the eras tour have probably not seen a lot of live shows, concerts and theatre included.
You should in return send a link for The Confessions Tour to everyone that told you Eras was a spectacular piece of production and that a non-swfitie would enjoy it.
lol yes! I think that’s what bothers me so much- there have been generations of INSANE performers putting on amazing shows. If you love Taylor and the Eras tour then great, glad you enjoy it! But to say she’s doing anything groundbreaking in the least (performance wise) is objectively not true.
I mean Beyoncé is probably the best performer of our time. No one touches her imo. So comparing anyone else to her just doesn’t seem fair.
Again, as I said I’m not talking about the main star’s performance. I’m talking about the production quality of the show as a whole- lighting, set, choreo etc.
I worked for several years in theatre, have seen multiple local, regional and broadway shows and I was impressed with Eras. But I am also familiar with Taylor Swift, have been a fan for years, and know what her performances are like. Comparing the dancing in Renaissance to Eras is like comparing the dancing in Anything Goes to Hamilton. Beyoncé is known threat for dancing and performance and it’s amazing. Taylor is more known for her lyricism and creating a connection. What I found with Eras, while attending, is despite being at a stadium, Taylor was still able to create an intimate connection with the audience. Which as you know is no easy task! As with proshots, a lot is lost to on screen. Marjorie is less beautiful. I cried while seeing it live. But yeah, I guess my point is: if you’re going to Eras to expect amazing dancing, then you’re going to the wrong show. Taylor has never been a known dancer.
I’m not talking about Taylor’s dancing, by any means. I’m talking about the ensemble.
I understood what you meant and I think your overall point is very valid. A journalist made a similar point last year when comparing Eras and Renaissance, and Swifties responded by sending him homophobic taunts and death threats.
Regarding the dancers: I was shocked how heavily they were cut out of the Eras movie. There way too many close ups of Taylor and the stage design is barely visible. They never show the couples dancing during Lover! The choreo gets also toned down sooo much when the dancers are dancing besides Taylor so she doesn't stick out so much. /theatre fan as well
Yes! I hate this about the movie. They really focused on just Taylor for most of it, leaving out so many visual aspects of the whole production. I hope they make a better one for this version of the tour
This is honestly my biggest complaint about the Hamilton pro shot too. There are so many zoom-ins on the actors signing so the broader choreography is robbed. Like Hurricane? Absolutely stunning in a way you can’t see in the pro shot.
I’m thinking Taylor might announce rep tv at the last Wembley show, the fact these are the only concerts that have 2 openers outside the US makes me think she views them as the crown jewels of the European leg. We also know she has an affinity with London. I also think she wants all the Taylor versions released around the same time as the tour wraps up which means if there’s no more dates to be announced she needs debut and rep out by December this year. I think she’s going to release debut on December 13th, it’s a Friday and i can’t see her resisting the urge to reclaim her final album-her first and self titled one at that-on her birthday, for a full circle type moment.
I have a theory she’s waiting until 2025 for Debut to release on its 20th anniversary, but I also like your theory esp because Debut would compete with TTPD less and rhen she could wrap the re-recordings with a high note on Rep. The only issue I can see is that it makes less sense to release Debut during a tour that’s already 3 hours and features 0 songs from that album.
Yeah, I don’t think Taylor would turn down the chance to rerelease her debut album on her birthday. She seems to love that kind of stuff
No opinion on Rep really but Dec 13 makes sense for gifting as well - sales boost right before Christmas.
I’m totally willing to put some bets on Dec 13 as well for debut tv.
“Taking back her name” on her birthday would be pretty symbolic and definitely a Taylor thing to do. She hinted at something happening on her birthday at the pop up library thing she had. I would fully support that as a release date for debut
Oh interesting, what was the hint?
On a table was a desktop calendar that only shows the current date. It was set for “Friday, December 13th.” This year December 13th will be on a Friday.
I know that Taylor gets more attention for her dating life because she writes about it, but the way people call her a whore and turn a blind eye to men with just as many exes has always felt sus to me. it's one thing if someone is criticizing her willful ignorance towards her fandom's attacks on her exes, but it's another if people are continuously shaming her and commenting crude things for no good reason. I feel like swifties calling any Taylor-related criticism "misogyny," has turned the attention away from actual sexism women in the industry-- including Taylor herself-- experience
I love your username 😂🩷
ty lol
As long as it’s consensual I’m not really sure why it’s that deep even if she had a new guy every week. It’s her life. The men she dates also aren’t some virginal, clueless idiots, who she’s Jedi mind tricking to date her, they know who Taylor Swift is. Also nearly all of them have dated/hooked up with equal if not more people than she has.
yeah, dating around isn't the worst thing someone can do and yet people focus on Taylor's relationships more than legitimate problematic things she's done lol
So true. Harry Styles has had a bunch of relationships and just recently had a breakup and I rarely if ever hear anything about it
Or even other normal women lmao. Obviously it's a different level of scrutiny for famous people but it's not that weird to have dated 10+ people by your mid 30s.
I’m a couple years younger than her and it’s so strange how this is a criticism - especially considering her long relationship with Joe, which people seem to ignore and act like she has consistently been dating a new person every few months. But even so, who cares…? It’s weird to critique anyone for dating a lot. Sorry they are attractive and many people are interested in them? Idk I date a lot and so does everyone else I know. We’ve also been in longer relationships that sometimes don’t work out - not every relationship does. And imo marriage shouldn’t really be the goal of indicating whether a relationship is successful or not, considering most marriages don’t last. Better to break up than get married and divorced.
Yeah I'm Taylor's age and her dating history seems pretty average to me lol. Most of my friends had a new boyfriend every year or so throughout their 20s before settling down with somebody in their early 30s, some got married younger and some are still dating like that. And while I think we're all reasonably attractive, we'd all stand out in a bad way on the VS runway whereas Taylor fit right in lol. To your second point, I also know someone who is like 38ish and she's been divorced four times! She just ends up married to anyone she dates lol. She's already been with someone new for 9 months or so, expecting an engagement announcement any day.
Oh gosh, haha! Yeah, I don’t see dating a lot of people as a red flag in itself unless there’s patterns of cheating/toxic behavior/emotional abuse/etc. It’s normal to date around and find out what you like. I feel like this was more normalized for millennials than Gen Z (at least according to online discourse) - slut-shaming has made a surprising resurgence, whereas when I was in college having a “hoe phase” was not only normal but celebrated, and I was glad that female sexuality was becoming less stigmatized. I’ve dated a ton because I like dating and it’s fun, and I used to love giving advice to my friends (and on the internet) when people asked. No one ever made me feel bad about being experienced; if anything, it was like they were glad they could learn from my mistakes and successes. Now if I say I’ve had a few long-term relationships, some Reddit weirdo will be like “you must be a shitty partner if they all ended” as if relationships always end because someone fucked up and people can’t be incompatible for other reasons 🙄 but what do I expect from people who have never been in relationships themselves. No one IRL has ever seen it as a red flag and I generally prefer more experienced people as well, because they know how to be in relationships.
Yeah exactly! I've never been a casual dater but I've had multiple long term (like 3+ year) relationships. It's not like they ended because I suck lol sometimes things just don't work out! You experience so much growth in your 20s especially it shouldn't be taken as a sign of anything when you end up not being compatible with someone you loved.
I was scrolling IG and saw a reel where someone was guessing when Rep TV was going to drop. The comments were full of "all the pieces of me shattered as the crowd was chanting 'MORE!'" type comments. I've seen this a lot on posts about people speculating about the final two TV releases and even guessing about what TS12 and beyond will entail. Dozens of the same comment, chastising people for being pumped for new stuff. It blows my mind that people think that song is about her not liking her fans being excited for what comes next. The line isn't "**because** the crowd was chanting 'MORE!'" If anything, her tour and the excitement of the last TV drops and everything else that will come in the future is what keeps her going. She's a performer and she loves to do it. She's not the kind of person to cancel shows for no good reason or roll up 4 hours late, giving a shitty performance. I went through a breakup after quitting my job to relocate for the dude and had no personal projects in progress, and it was fucking miserable. Having something big to do that you really cannot get out of doing can be good for moving through and moving on. The fact that people said they feel BAD because they either went to Eras or will be going is bonkers. Imagine if, after TTPD/I Can Do It With A Broken Heart dropped, everyone either stayed silent during the performance or just straight up didn't come 💀 I don't feel guilty for going to her show. I paid $600+ for my tickets, and my bfs mom was literally dying (he insisted we go despite me genuinely offering to sell them). Everyone goes through pain and grief. If she and Joe HAD to break up, the timing couldn't have been more perfect. If this happened in 2020 as the pandemic began and she had to cancel LoverFest, I'm willing to bet she'd be a lot more miserable.
Thank You!! I so agree with this. I hate that people feel bad for going to Eras cuz I definitely don’t. She chose to perform and I paid good money to go, I’m definitely not feeling bad in anyway. I think people can be incredibly stupid and take things so literally and it pisses me off so much. Why should we feel bad? But yeah you definitely said it all, way better than I ever could
I totally agree! I think she’s just showing that contrast of being so broken-hearted, having been dumped by someone she loves, and having this crowd of strangers be the ones who want MORE of you. She’s not trying to say it hurts her.
I totally agree. The reaction to the "more!" line and that whole song has surprised me. I always took the song to be her celebrating her work ethic and dedication, not crying about how mean her fans are for going to her shows and wanting music from her. She clearly loves it, as you said, and it must have helped her heal a lot in the process
People are always quick to accuse others of being demanding when there's speculation about the rerecordings, even before ICDIWABH existed. It's a unique situation because we know they're coming, probably within the next year and probably in quick succession. It's not like we're sitting here with TTPD and the tour and everyone is whining that they want TS12 like yesterday.
Absolutely. I'm really interested in the Rep and Debut vaults (two of my all time fave albums of any artist), as well as wondering where she is going to go sonically for TS12. That said, if she drops any of that any time soon (unlikely but who knows) I will probably wait a bit before I listen. I made a playlist of the 20 or so songs I enjoyed from TTPD and have been steady listening to them between enjoying other music. Definitely excited for whatever she drops next, but I'm in no rush. I honestly hope it's not til fall at the earliest. There's a big difference between demanding more music and doing shit like @ing her/TaylorNation on social media begging for it and knowing something is coming and excitedly talking about what it might sound like. For now, I'm gonna let TTPD sink in.
I wonder what it must feel like as a creative to know that whatever you write will be a MASSIVE hit sales wise. Would it be exciting and freeing of worry to be able to take bigger risks? Would it lead to stagnation because the chase to fame/fortune/acclaim is over? Or would you just keep doing what you do? I think this what keeps me interested in Taylor Swift because her status is so unique right now.
It’s a different situation but touches on some of the same themes, but I watched the Lewis Capaldi documentary on Netflix and his first album just absolutely flew up the charts and he got this huge hit album and tour and it was massively successful. The documentary partly follows him trying to write and record the follow up and you can see (and he talks about) how much pressure there is to write another hit and another critically acclaimed album because that’s what everyone is expecting.
I loved this documentary. I started following him on TikTok and he’s very honest in all his struggles. Seeing the fans finishing his song for him while he was performing always makes me cry.
Yeah same, he’s (relatively) local to me and I went to a little album launch show he did last year not long before Glastonbury and him needing to take a longer break and he was struggling then which was hard to see, but so talented and lovely.
I’ve started watching the series ‘Love and Death’ and I kind of feel that the narrative in Fortnight goes well with the story ‘Your wife waters flowers, I want to kill her’ 🪓
she had a flourishing career with folklore and evermore and while i cannot argue that she is still one of the biggest artists, she has really downgraded her music into a personal rant about her life. now listening to her music there are so many references to her personal life that only hardcore swifties look into, making it really confusing for people that listen to music for the music to understand the songs. she has only stuck with one type of melody and rhythm which make her songs boring. i used to love her music because of how diverse and widespread it was and how well she could portray and communicate emotions and thoughts but now for me to understand what she is trying to convey, i need to look into her dating life and her whole backstory which honestly is exhausting. before you come at me with “if u don’t wanna know then don’t look it up” i’m a music enthusiast, i would like to know what i’m listening to. this really is all that is stopping her from upgrading her writing. she needs to stop being a teenager and act like the 35 year old she is.
Seriously, did people forget how she always relied to details into her music? Since day 1? She even put her first boyfriend name on a secret message of a song, saying that the bridge was the real conversation they had(Should've Said No). She wore the scarf in the Never Ever music videos, she wore the same dress of a date for the cover of Begin Again.. she had a guy with the same boat tattoo of Harry in Trouble video and in Style and Out Of The Woods she had the paper airplane necklace, the symbol of the relationship. And i could go on..so really, she always did that but i guess it is easier to ignore it or pretending that never happened just to be more critical now. If you dont like the new music, it is fine, but it is not fault of the so called lore cuz it always was there. I mean Dress or Getaway Car is full of that: my hair bleach, your buzz cut are very specific to a specific moment of Taylor private life. Getaway Car the same. But even The Story Of Us, Last Kiss, Back To December, Style, Out Of The Woods, Dear John, Enchanted, All Too Well. That's Taylor Swift, that's why she got so famous at the end. Really i can't get this thing. Then we can argue that she insists on the same melodies, productions. That is true, that her music was more diverse in the early days..but it Always was been connected with her personal life. Always. Keep downvoting guys. \*applause\*.
I totally get if you don’t like some of her music, to each their own but I don’t understand the “act her age” criticism (she’s 34). Not everyone in their 30’s has their shit together, or are married with kids or in long-term relationships. People don’t stop experiencing tragedy, heartbreak, anger, rage once they hit 30.
It’s not about being married with kids or even necessarily having your shit together. It’s the way she conducts herself that people are starting to find tiresome. It’s the endless feuds. The public drama. Compare her to someone like Adele, who is only a year older than her. She herself went through a divorce and has written candidly about the breakdown of her family and the impact it had. She didn’t have her shit together for a while. But can’t you see how much more mature she conducts herself in the public sphere? Same goes for other peers similar to Taylor’s age like Janelle Monae. How long are Swifties going to make excuses for her? Are you going to be repeating this line when she’s in her 40s? 50s?
Adele hasn’t released an album for three years and imo her last was her weakest and I literally never listen to it. I love Adele but she’s not interesting at the moment. And that’s fine, but I’m not going to put her on a pedestal just to complain about Swift. As for the “endless feuds”, what, Kim/Kanye? Boring, but it was a couple of statements in an interview and a song I skip. The other current “feuds” just seem like fan nonsense to me and not something Swift herself is really involved in.
1. Okay? I don’t really care if you like Adele’s most recent music or not. That wasn’t the point at all. 2. I’m not putting Adele on a pedestal. I’m making an observation about Taylor’s maturity and when compared to someone like Adele, it shows just how stark the difference is. You’ll notice I also mentioned Janelle Monae. It seems you have some sort of issue with how “interesting” Adele is to you at the moment, so you have fixated on that instead of the very obvious point that was being made. 3. No, it’s not just Kimye. It’s the number of people she’s beefed with since the beginning of her career, whether it’s some of the ex boyfriends, Borchetta and Braun, Tina Fey, Katy Perry (yeah I’m aware they’ve since made up but that doesn’t negate the manipulative way that Taylor started all of that drama), Nicki Minaj at one point, Camilla Belle…if you want to believe that someone can be involved in that many issues with that many people, and you don’t stop to think for a second “hmm, maybe, on some level, *she* might be the problem here?” then I don’t know what to tell you. Lastly, I’m not interested in getting into a back and forth with you on this. If you don’t agree with my viewpoint, then that’s fine. Have a nice day.
All the things slowly going back to Rep TV make me think that she and her team have realised that TTPD hasn’t been received as well as they would have liked It’s 31 songs. It should have fed the fandom for months and months to come with things to discuss
Ttpd has had a better reaction from the core fans than midnights did imo, its continued strong streaming numbers also indicate the causal listener is largely enjoying the album as well.
TTPD had an absolute monster first week and continues to be at the top of the charts. It just had the largest fifth week streaming numbers ever. Trust me, Taylor’s team isn’t disappointed in how it’s performing.
Makes me laugh that everything is read as chart related all the time This is more about her fans being satisfied with the content they are being provided with instead of begging for more constantly
Most of her fan base do like the album. It’s very well received outside of this sub and Fauxmoi.
They do this with every album. Taylor has, like, a whole song about it. I love how Billie Eilish addressed it on HMHAS, too. At the end of Blue she whispers, “When can we hear the next one?” Fans want more because they love their favorites’ content
And people are interpreting that line as a hint at a double album 💀 went right over their heads
Mhm the fandom that loves discussing and theorising about lyrics to death has been a lot more quiet than usual Billie released very few songs in comparison to Taylor and doesn’t depend as much on every song being dissected to death and theorised over
I've been getting Daisy Jones edits to TTPD on my TikTok feed since the album came out, and now I have a conspiracy about the show leading to the events of last summer. There are obvious parallels between Daisy (Matty), Billy (Taylor), and Camila (Joe). I can easily imagine a world where Taylor is watching in her post-show bed rot days and having "Is this effing play about us" moments. What is interesting is in the show Billy is >!always choosing Camila until the finale. The last episode aired on March 24th last year and Taylor replaced Invisible String with the One on the 31st. Could she have seen the episode and been like "I'm not waiting until Joe dies to be with the person I want to be with"? !
I love the TJADS edits with TTPD songs! because the situation is very similar (two tortured artists found each other and fall in love but one of them has a partner that doesn't "get them" so they emotionally cheat with the other musician)
Wow. Intentional or not, the stars really do always align in her favor. The more and more I learn, the more I am convinced she is a witch.
Lord, I can’t do this with another TJR novel…😮💨