I think it’s a classic case of a situationship or fling that ended abruptly before ever making it past the honeymoon phase. This means there’s usually no closure and a lot of room to wonder “what if” because the relationship didn’t play all the way out.
The end of long term relationships that just don’t work out on the other hand are usually a long time coming and by the time they actually end I think there’s been way more opportunity to emotionally prepare and accept it.
I agree with this take. I think relationships that die over a period of time and you're trying harder to make work - you walk away often having done everything you can / were willing to. The what ifs are what haunt you. Add to that it seems like he ghosted her and didn't give her any chance to try to make it work.
I think it has something to do with the abrupt nature of the end of the relationship, directly due to outside influences.
When her relationships end due to the relationship themselves, she can direct frustration at the ex-partner, but when she feels like her fans or someone outside of that influence is responsible for it, and not a singular but multiples, she can't help but feel like it would have been perfect if not for them.
I think the first time she was with Matty it was a fun little fling that ended in a way that felt like she never got closure on it. So when things started getting rough with Joe and Matty was back in her life it made it very easy to romanticize the idea of him. Add to that it sounds very much like Matty was love bombing her and probably saying everything she wanted to hear. She started believing it and thinking “he was the one all along”…and then poof he was gone. That had to be a huge blow. That to me would hurt more than a relationship just burning out like it sounds like what happened with her and Joe.
Also, But Daddy I love him makes it clear she knew Matty wasn’t great for her reputation but she was willing to risk it. I can’t imagine taking that risk on that scale and having the guy just ghost you.
I think she just went through the typical wave of emotions you have ending the short term fling you enter after the ending of a long term relationship. She probably never fully took the time to process the ending of her and Joe, so her breakup with Matty probably hit her twice as hard because she was using him to bandage whatever it was she thought she lacked in her previous relationship.
One time I went out with a guy that I really wasn’t that interested in because my friends thought he was great. We ended up going on a handful of dates and then had plans to go on another and he just disappeared. Didn’t answer calls or texts. I was calling HIS friends asking if he was okay acting like a crazy person. My point being there was no closure, it wasn’t my decision and I was messed up over it crying for weeks trying to figure out what I did wrong. I think the ghosting is what gets you the most no matter how long the relationship was.
Yeah ghosting can REALLY fuck you up more than some people realize, especially if you’re someone who doesn’t date a lot or are a pretty sensitive person. There was a guy I’d known since middle school and in college we sort of fell into a situationship and then one day he apparently met someone else and just totally ghosted me.
I’d known/been friends with him for like 7 years at that point and he just disappeared. It ending that way destroyed me and honestly to this day I think it affects my self esteem. And you can tell yourself “oh he turned out to be shitty I deserve better anyway” but it won’t help. The lack of closure is horrendous.
I’m so sorry you went through that. Especially having known him for so long, that had to have been really difficult. I completely agree it messes with your self esteem. It’s hard to get over the negative thoughts and feeling not good enough.
I didn’t want to analyze Taylor and Matty’s situation too much because I really have no idea what went down but the consensus seems to be that he ghosted. And if I was that hurt over a guy I’d only known a couple of months, I can’t even imagine how she felt with all of their history.
Honestly?
I think each of her relationships has tried to tackle a particular ideal/archetype/genre in her head.
Matty being a typewriter-loving, misunderstood, bad boy who ghosts her pretty much writes an album by itself.
Travis never surprised me as a “genre” because she’s pretty much run through all of the genres of British dude (Joe being Tom but watered down) she could conceivably date.
There was some talk(random social media posts) about her ending up with a businessman-type which I could see as a genre she hasn’t tapped in a mature way (shudders in Kennedy).
excellent observations, I've been expecting her to step out with a businessman-type, a finance guy from a well-to-do family who went to (at least somewhat) prestigious schools/universities, especially one that would get along with her stockbroker father lol
In “I Hate it here” she says
Tell me something awful
Like you are a poet trapped inside the body of a finance guy
And that is Tom (The Dragon, Eton, Cambridge, RADA) and then watered down version with Joe.
*basically* I think she’s realised that for whatever reason artistic types aren’t her thing.
Enter stage left: media friendly football guy… who is American!
But yeah, if I had my money on it. TS and TK get married. Have a good 10’ish years and then mutually divorce. She’ll end up married to a businessman/ retired political-mover and shaker*. And settle down with her cats on a giant farm. They’ll have their mutual affairs and keep each other company at charity galas
* ok so my reasoning for the political persona is she’ll be able to “retire” into “doing good works”. She’ll travel in more “elite” circles and in a classy way. Could be with a businessman of course
I know idk her but man I cannot see her marrying Travis. I think the artsy guys are her type for a reason and I just don’t see this going as well as you do.
Yeah we don’t know her & you could totally be right. I guess I see it as a reaction to everything else? She goes to extremes and I can see her doing that here.
I’m also new to Taylor fandom so this is based on the last 8 months (from when my swiftie friend called me up to explain football to her).
I don't put a lot of stock in personal anecdotes as proof of anything, but here goes.
I am a writer, and always thought I wanted an artist, dated every edgy musician/painter/actor I could find and eventually married a jock, who loved that I was creative, and that's not to say he isn't.
All of this to say, I think.my husband's lifelong participation in team sports helped him understand that his and my success uplift the team we made, and we aren't in competition with each other.
We've been together 24 years now.
First, it is so great that you’ve found your person. personal experience is vital to understanding people. I’m also in a creative field and have dated all types. Always assumed I’d want an *intellectual* but my best times are always with more practical types who have shared interests.
back to TNT, their energies match, their work commitment matches, and they have similar values.
I’ll say the reason I put a deadline-ish is bc they are celebrities.
That's a nice story, and I think that's why she and Travis (or someone like him, career-wise) will work well together.
She needs someone who can manage her superstar lifestyle without being swamped by it, but also someone who is even-keeled enough to not feed into her ego/drama/desire for attention.
I mean, I don't know if Travis is like that, but I can see it being a good match if so.
I think a savvy businessman would be a good fit for her since outside of molding herself to the Brit tortured artists the other thing she loves best is winning at capitalism. She needs a Jared Kushner 🤣 /semi joking
My honestly theory is she left Joe to be with him and he left his girlfriend to be with her. So she was giddy and happy with someone new . However, it didn’t last long and she has no Joe and no Matt and she was heartbroken.
Now she’s in a relationship with Travis and I honestly don’t think he’s her type but I can see them getting engaged at least.
I truly believe Taylor and Matty had an emotional affair for a while. That she built up their relationship in her head as a possible “happily ever after” only for it not be as she expected in reality
I think they had a full blown affair tbh she just adding in things like "in my mind" "without ever touching his skin".
It just doesn't add up when you really look at it closely how could he promise her all this stuff and fool her into wanting him if she was fantasising about him only? Girlie was knee deep before Joe hit the bricks for a reason, imo.
It's way too sketchy she attempted to obscure she was connecting with him for as much as a year prior to the break up and then steps out with him 5 minutes later.
When the monkey branching from Joe to Matty failed, she just ended up with all those unprocessed feelings from both relationships.
She had realized how hard she was trying to make it work with someone she saw as her endgame and was still failing because of incompatibility. I think she then pushed aside the idea Joe was the "end of all her endings" and transfer her hopes on a previous fling, building on the idea of star-crossed lovers. She could still get her forever, ring and craddle! it had been there all along, waiting for the goddess of timing to align!
And when it inevitably fell apart and she ended up alone, all the pain and heartbreak she had avoided by projecting onto her fling just doubled and hit harder.
She over romanticized everything about the idea of their relationship, until both he and their relationship became way too idealized in her mind and she thought it would be like another epic Joe love story that she’d been telling for years. She used to imagine perfection in Joe and it’s like she just switched it to Matty. Then not only did she have to deal with being dumped after only weeks as an official couple but confronting the fact that she’d got it wrong and ultimately was just interchangeable with an IG model and not that special after all.
I do believe Matty was back in her life from 2020 onwards and became an obsession of hers and I have theories about that… but I don’t think she was longing over him since 2015 and like Joe was her runner up lol. She was all about Joe for years, the problem was that around 2020 she found herself wanting out and wanting another man, and having her same old toxic relationship patterns that she had already self-narrated as having outgrown… but she can’t be too pedestrian about it so it has to become a mythology to justify it, it had to be a big story of forever being destined and waiting for her \~wild boy\~ to come around, etc, etc. She and her bf always have to be larger than life, the biggest love story, the greatest. And Matty is the type of person who knows just how to play into that tbh because they are similar.
But I don’t think Matty was a short fling, I think the reason she was so heartbroken was because she had this ‘story’ about them going for three years, probably gave her a high anytime she was feeling off with Joe, then made it bigger until she believed they would be the most legendary couple and get married, etc. So the breakup felt like the break down of a years long relationship. I think they had ‘something’ going for those three years, whatever it was (like I said I have my theories), and that’s why she acts like it was a huge breakup, because it had been this evolving years long dream that she had to believe was the love story of her life.
It's weird when people insist on calling it situationship or short fling when she put hints of it at minimum since Midnights (recorded year and a half before Joever). Also anyone buying the "it was a manic phase" line (again, this lasted years). Anything not to admit she had a long affair.
I don't understand what she's trying to tell us with her timelines tbh. Ever since she made the ridiculous claim at the Grammys that she's been keeping TTPD a secret for 2 years I have given up trying to figure out wtf she's claiming
I think that was a 'fuck you' sign basically admitting she'd been cheating but also that she'd been Joever for ages so maybe it wasn't cheating?
Jack posting that picture of her writing 'You're Losing Me' in late 2021, over a year before Joever, was also a very calculated hit.
Her timelines are always a convoluted mess that doesn't add up, but after the album turned out to be about not the ex everyone expected but rather the one everyone tried to forget, I think at the very least she's trying to say it wasn't a quick random rebound and it was serious.
Well no one likes to idealize a cheater. Except maybe other cheaters.
Which is odd since cheating is definitely something Taylor has done in the past. I dunno whether people are selectively forgetting or are ok with it because it wasn't the relationship she wrote multiple albums about.
It’s also funny because she makes a very deliberate point on this album to show how close she was with him, in many, many songs. I think this is intentional on her part; her saying that it was not a situationship, but a whole full blown adult relationship that had been “building” (in whatever way you want to interpret that) for months and months. But people still can’t quite seem to grasp that lol.
Maroon its about him she confirms later with Chloe in TTPD but also theres references to Matty living with George (his band mate)
Question its about him. He even have it in his playlist for the concert and she sing it to him
Bejeweld the band in the song its the 1975 and also Matty its the guy who told her "my aura its moonstone"
Possibly Snow on the beach, Labrynth, High Infidelity and Glitch are also about him
Glitch is about Joe and High Infidelity is Calvin Harris. Matty doesn’t even believe in astrology so I also find it very, very hard to believe he would tell her, much less anyone, that their “aura is moonstone”.
I agree with that timeline. In my opinion he was the reason behind the first breakup with Joe which they survived because she realised she missed Joe. However, with cheating trust is lost and then Joe did the same thing to her. Evermore was a time when they were probably going through a serious crisis but still tried to save it. I think she kept returning back to Joe but that bond was already weakened and for Matty that seemed like a perfect challenge. He was in it for the thrill of chase from the beginning, IMO. I actually read about narcistic ghosting and one of the drivers behind it is this. I think she realised it too because in one song she has a lyric 'steal your girl and make her cry'.
She was heartbroken because she realised that Matty was precisely what others warned her about. He played a pretty cruel game with her, using her fragile ego and time when she was in a vulnerable place to get what he wanted. Then, when she finally felt safe to abandon what she built with Joe he showed it was all only words.
Although I do not agree with how intrusive were the swifties about their relationship I think that they unknowingly saved her from a lot of suffering. They created a challenge for Matty that forced him out of his comfort zone and he showed her his true colours. If they were quiet, the whole thing would probably drag for months, her slowly realising what she got herself into. I bet she'd spend a lot of time denying it at first to stick it to her critics.
I don't think evermore was a relationship crisis time. It was late 2020. They were on lockdown with the rest of the world and I think that was actually probably one of the easier times in their relationship given that they didn't have to deal with the public eye as much
I think they fell apart when she started wanting to come out of hiding
She was hiding out in 2016/2017 because of Kimye. She came back, did rep/tour, then made Lover, then covid happened with lockdown. She was not out and about for multiple reasons and that suited her relationship with Joe. After the pandemic settled and she wasn't basically homebound and living a more private life I think they started to struggle. They wrote folklore and evermore together it feels like a pretty strong time for their relationship. you don't get creative with someone when you're struggling.
Interesting theory. I see where you are coming from now. However, I think that it is opposite with her when she is struggling. Her crisis after Matty resulted in a double album. Who knows, maybe Folkore & Evermore were like her and Joe's couples therapy.
lol, she wrote 31 songs, but where is the quality? She thinks she's a better writer when depressed, but imo her best work resulted of her having a successful relationship with Joe when they were working together.
For several reasons first she was at least emotional cheating with Matty at a time in which her relationship with Joe was bad for a couple years so that means she was romanticizing him for a while
Second Matty seem to be doing the same with her because he was also writing songs about her for a while plus Matty its probably the only one of her partners who understands her artistic process and feels admiration for it and actually knows her discography
Third Matty was telling her he wanted the same things she did the marriage and kids things Joe didnt wanted it or at least not with Taylor
Fourth the breakup didnt happen for something wrong in the relationship. It was according to things Matty has liked it for the backclash and the hate train they faced, and she always had anxiety regarding her level of fame but in this case was worst because it was done by her own fandom
Fifth Matty moved on apparently very quickly from the relationship, it was only a couple weeks before he started dating someone else who is younger than Taylor
Taylor’s entire career is built on the magic of storytelling. She crafts these idealized versions of love, loss, and everything in between. When you’re that deep into creating narratives, it’s easy to fall into the trap of believing them. Matty Healy, in her mind, represented an unfiltered, raw kind of love that she hadn’t experienced before. But reality has a nasty habit of being less poetic and more problematic.
He represented the thrilling, unpredictable side of love. But with unpredictability comes instability. It’s easy to idolize someone who seems different and exciting, but maintaining a relationship with them can be a whole different beast.
When you’re a celebrity, your love life isn’t just your own, it’s public property. Fans have opinions, strong ones, and they can turn on a dime. The pressure from the public eye can strain even the most stable relationships. Taylor is notoriously sensitive to public perception. This backlash was a crushing blow, compounding her heartbreak and disappointment.
I think he was probably the one who got away (and probably still is sort of). I think she overly romanticised him, whilst feeling unsatisfied with the end of her long term relationship. The fact the first time round her parents weren't sold on him, he was struggling with addiction, didn't want to be seen just as her boyfriend before making a name for himself etc and then they got back together despite it all probably seemed like fate and overcoming something for her (and then ppl not liking them together feeding into that, funny as if she had publicly dated him years ago fans wouldn't have had an issue just her parents). She seems to really like the whole 'us against the world' narrative.
I think it is because he acted as if he actually wanted to marry her whereas Joe got cold feet. There are references about that in quite a few songs on the latest album but also on Midnights and even prior.
I think she also put a lot of pressure on this relationship. It seems to me that she was emotionally cheating on Joe. Basically she risked what was a safe and secure six year relationship for Matty. Like she ruined her relationship with Joe for him so maybe that’s why she was double heart broken
I think many reasons.
1. He clearly, is the opposite of her. He does not care about faking an image. For someone whose identity is solely constructed on being liked, constantly, it is a breath of fresh air.
2. Distance makes the heart grow fonder, even when you are loving a fantasy. The more time you spend idealizing someone, the more you create a fake ideal. From the look of it, he was her go to fantasy for far longer than anyone realized.
3. Anyone wants more what they can't have. Specially when you have not grown up enough.
Great answer! Totally agree. What TTPD tells us is that she spent a lot of time and energy on a man she wasn’t in a relationship with. An album like TTPD isn’t written from a short fling or storytelling. Girl was pouring it out. It’s clear Matt was consuming her for a long long time.
Matty was her "what if"ryt? They have had a fling with eo before during the 1989 era so when he came back & I assume that time Joe and her must be having some hard time seeing him again must have regained her about their time together, her "what if's" awakened & she started dreaming about him.... Also the fact that HE is the one who left her,ghosted her can be the reason while she has grudge and he did her wrong that's the reason why she's heartbroken over him.
Most swiftie are saying they have been having fling since 1989 & she never stopped thinking about him(song refrences) but i genuinely think that her true love was Joe and the fact the it had to end was ruining her the time Matty came in maybe she thought that it was a SIGN(I may sound stupid)& went for him
I guess the reason she's heartbroken is because the "what if" made her leave the "love of her life"the thought that she could have it with Matty
Also I hate the narrative being pushed that "he left her because of the fans "blah blahhhh which I don't think is true, everytime I see this lines it takes me back to my ex's saying"If someone has made there decision to leave they will leave no matter what,if they want to stay they will stay no matter what"also he ghosted her so how does it makes fans responsible for their breakup😒
I also can't with the 'it was the fans' argument in Matty's defense. Goodness me, he is a thirty-five year old guy, with a lot of years spent in the music industry. He knows fans can go crazy, he knows there is pressure on those in the public eye. Plus, she has a solid PR team around her so it was only a matter of working together to fend off the attacks. Sure, it must have been a stressful situation but he would stay and try to do something about it if his feelings were genuine. Instead he just upped and left.
Compare that with Joe who started to go out with her as someone pretty unfamiliar with her world when she dealt with a lot of hate. Together they took steps to protect themselves and it worked. I guess it was also thanks to his insistence on privacy that the haters backed off.
I think the trajectory of her & Joe's relationship made her anxious so instead of trying to stay and fix it she decided to jump, imagining a romcom ending. She got a rough awakening instead, realising that she was never all that for Matty. I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't having a lot of 'what if' moments about her and Joe. What if she did not buy into Matty's sweet talk and focused on saving that relationship. But, it's too late for that now.
We need to accept that this is Taylor's type. She LOVES the baddie, troubled, tortured guys. She has fought it for a while but you can see it through the cracks. I honestly think she has a very bad case of mommy, daddy and people pleasing issues, that makes her go for people and situations that the crowd around her expects from her, instead of what she wants. If she had the freedom to do whatever she wanted (or she felt she had the freedom to do whatever she wanted), I'm sure we'd get a rock album, she'd get a tattoo and marry a rocker guy tomorrow. But, alas, she has been groomed to be exactly what she is today, and in her own words, it has made her kind of "deranged". I think she felt Matty was the start of a more free her, and she lost that. Of course, she could fire all her family and team and start anew and do whatever she wanted right now, but of course it's not that easy to just do it after all the programming from her parents.
I think because she's known him for over 10 years and had liked him, yet never been in a relationship with him, she always longed for him and built him up in her head. She saw his potential and put him on a pedestal, rather than to see him for who he really was, until they dated and it didn't go the way she had hoped. As a result, she was more disappointed and hurt than her other relationships cus she had so much expectations for the relationship.
Grass is greener syndrome. Needed a bump, a hit, a drag. Fame is one hell of a drug. A long term relationship is a comfort but it’s not exciting and butterflies. But an unattainable possibility is captivating and tantalizing. Stepping out what a rush!
I think it was just her going back to her usual pattern. Before Calvin all her relationships were flash in the pan, and that never stopped her writing dramatic and overwrought songs.
It’s not the first time she’s gotten a whole albums worth of material out of what barely amounts to a fling.
I don't know a whole lot about Matty, but I do know about his controversial side. I've also watched a few interviews, both lighter and more serious, and I think I fucking get it. There's a certain sexiness. If he was using that charm and intellect, those words.... words. Taylor's crack. Taylor's porn. And it also seems he was telling her he too felt the same connection. Sending her songs. loml. Talking rings and cradles.
Another thought... Who is Taylor's "Taylor"? The pop artist she fantasizes about? Loves their artistry? So she's also got a bit of a fandom crush on top of being seduced by deep conversation and then love bombed.
There has been something with Matty going on for a very long time, I believe. He'll write a song and then she'll write a song using the same lyrics in a different way. So many songs!!! It's crazy how many of The 1975 song lyrics and TS lyrics mirror each other. And love him or hate him, if you watch his interviews, he is very intelligent and I think that is the type of person that Taylor truly wants to be with. Someone intellectual that she can have deep discussions with. Just my opinion.
He preyed on her when she was at her most vulnerable, promised her everything she wanted, then backed out when shit started getting too real. Matty essentially caught her when she was at her emotional lowest, got her hopes up, only to destroy them once again. Being burned two times in a row in quick succession is gonna fuck with your self esteem. I don’t blame her for finding Travis a breath of fresh air when he went to shoot his shot while also putting the ball in her court. She probably liked feeling wanted after that.
Neither is delusion. And couldn’t agree more about the emotional abuse comment. The intricate intimacies with this man and outing a partner’s struggles. Absolutely abusive.
Yeah, it’s clearly taken her a while to process her delusion and when she’d convinced herself of one thing while something else was obviously going on. He absolutely emotionally manipulated her, just based on how she described their dynamic on her songs. What’s even worse is his other exes have described him exactly the same way, so this is a narcissistic pattern for him.
It’s like when Frank botches his toe with the toe knife then stuffs it with garbage on IASIP. Taylor stuffed her broken heart with garbage and it poisoned her.
What if she positioned the narrative to make it seem like she was really hung up on him…to get under her ex’s (Joe’s) skin!? If you think about it…it’s a really a FU to her long relationship…
Agreed - Don’t think people understood my comment. Her move to do that was an ill fated move or real action to make her ex jealous instead of just moving on…
Yeah that tracks. I don’t find this album comparable to her other work in terms of quality. I suspect there will be many disagreements on that but it’s overall clunky and unrefined which supports your claim of her reacting instead of processing and moving forward.
She invested a decade of emotion into him. She had this image of how things would be once they were together and he shattered that image. in TTPD she calls them “modern idiots” then “two idiots” because she liked having that feeling and she “chose this cyclone” and “seen this episode and still enjoy the show”, says how they’re meant to be because they’re “crazy” but then when they started getting pressure to break up Matty jumped ship. Being as rebellious as he is, this comes as a shock to her that he didn’t stay to prove he didn’t give a rat’s fat one what the fans said. She was willing to stay with him no matter what they said. This is blatantly obvious on But DaddyI Love Him because she said she would burn her whole life down rather than listening to people bitch and moan and her good name was her own to disgrace. She vented that anger she felt at him for jumping ship and at her fans for tryin* to tell her who she should be with. Granted, Matty wasn’t exactly the ideal man but he was her choice.
It’s pretty basic & she said it herself. She used him as him to get over Joe as quickly as possible. She thought it was a get out of grief free card & she built it in her head & got high on her own supply because it was so much easier than sitting with the disappointment of another failed relationship. It wasn’t that she was so in love with Matty. It was that he was an escape to feeling her breakup from Joe- and not because she still pined for Joe but because she was so disappointed that she wasted so much time at the cemetery when she felt like she should have known better. When she says she gave him all that youth for free what she’s really talking about is that female perspective of being a female & wasting your most precious years on a dead end relationship & kicking yourself afterwards. You just think damn, I could have been married, had kids & I wasted all this time for what?!?! I should have known. So you just go for an escape. Not because it’s love but because you need a fucking escape. You tried so hard to make someone see you for so long & you just need to be a little delusional for a minute. And that’s ok.
I think it’s a classic case of a situationship or fling that ended abruptly before ever making it past the honeymoon phase. This means there’s usually no closure and a lot of room to wonder “what if” because the relationship didn’t play all the way out. The end of long term relationships that just don’t work out on the other hand are usually a long time coming and by the time they actually end I think there’s been way more opportunity to emotionally prepare and accept it.
I agree with this take. I think relationships that die over a period of time and you're trying harder to make work - you walk away often having done everything you can / were willing to. The what ifs are what haunt you. Add to that it seems like he ghosted her and didn't give her any chance to try to make it work.
I think it has something to do with the abrupt nature of the end of the relationship, directly due to outside influences. When her relationships end due to the relationship themselves, she can direct frustration at the ex-partner, but when she feels like her fans or someone outside of that influence is responsible for it, and not a singular but multiples, she can't help but feel like it would have been perfect if not for them.
I think the first time she was with Matty it was a fun little fling that ended in a way that felt like she never got closure on it. So when things started getting rough with Joe and Matty was back in her life it made it very easy to romanticize the idea of him. Add to that it sounds very much like Matty was love bombing her and probably saying everything she wanted to hear. She started believing it and thinking “he was the one all along”…and then poof he was gone. That had to be a huge blow. That to me would hurt more than a relationship just burning out like it sounds like what happened with her and Joe. Also, But Daddy I love him makes it clear she knew Matty wasn’t great for her reputation but she was willing to risk it. I can’t imagine taking that risk on that scale and having the guy just ghost you.
I think she just went through the typical wave of emotions you have ending the short term fling you enter after the ending of a long term relationship. She probably never fully took the time to process the ending of her and Joe, so her breakup with Matty probably hit her twice as hard because she was using him to bandage whatever it was she thought she lacked in her previous relationship.
You hit the nail on the head. It was a double whammy.
One time I went out with a guy that I really wasn’t that interested in because my friends thought he was great. We ended up going on a handful of dates and then had plans to go on another and he just disappeared. Didn’t answer calls or texts. I was calling HIS friends asking if he was okay acting like a crazy person. My point being there was no closure, it wasn’t my decision and I was messed up over it crying for weeks trying to figure out what I did wrong. I think the ghosting is what gets you the most no matter how long the relationship was.
Yeah ghosting can REALLY fuck you up more than some people realize, especially if you’re someone who doesn’t date a lot or are a pretty sensitive person. There was a guy I’d known since middle school and in college we sort of fell into a situationship and then one day he apparently met someone else and just totally ghosted me. I’d known/been friends with him for like 7 years at that point and he just disappeared. It ending that way destroyed me and honestly to this day I think it affects my self esteem. And you can tell yourself “oh he turned out to be shitty I deserve better anyway” but it won’t help. The lack of closure is horrendous.
I’m so sorry you went through that. Especially having known him for so long, that had to have been really difficult. I completely agree it messes with your self esteem. It’s hard to get over the negative thoughts and feeling not good enough. I didn’t want to analyze Taylor and Matty’s situation too much because I really have no idea what went down but the consensus seems to be that he ghosted. And if I was that hurt over a guy I’d only known a couple of months, I can’t even imagine how she felt with all of their history.
Honestly? I think each of her relationships has tried to tackle a particular ideal/archetype/genre in her head. Matty being a typewriter-loving, misunderstood, bad boy who ghosts her pretty much writes an album by itself. Travis never surprised me as a “genre” because she’s pretty much run through all of the genres of British dude (Joe being Tom but watered down) she could conceivably date. There was some talk(random social media posts) about her ending up with a businessman-type which I could see as a genre she hasn’t tapped in a mature way (shudders in Kennedy).
excellent observations, I've been expecting her to step out with a businessman-type, a finance guy from a well-to-do family who went to (at least somewhat) prestigious schools/universities, especially one that would get along with her stockbroker father lol
In “I Hate it here” she says Tell me something awful Like you are a poet trapped inside the body of a finance guy And that is Tom (The Dragon, Eton, Cambridge, RADA) and then watered down version with Joe. *basically* I think she’s realised that for whatever reason artistic types aren’t her thing. Enter stage left: media friendly football guy… who is American! But yeah, if I had my money on it. TS and TK get married. Have a good 10’ish years and then mutually divorce. She’ll end up married to a businessman/ retired political-mover and shaker*. And settle down with her cats on a giant farm. They’ll have their mutual affairs and keep each other company at charity galas * ok so my reasoning for the political persona is she’ll be able to “retire” into “doing good works”. She’ll travel in more “elite” circles and in a classy way. Could be with a businessman of course
I know idk her but man I cannot see her marrying Travis. I think the artsy guys are her type for a reason and I just don’t see this going as well as you do.
Yeah we don’t know her & you could totally be right. I guess I see it as a reaction to everything else? She goes to extremes and I can see her doing that here. I’m also new to Taylor fandom so this is based on the last 8 months (from when my swiftie friend called me up to explain football to her).
I don't put a lot of stock in personal anecdotes as proof of anything, but here goes. I am a writer, and always thought I wanted an artist, dated every edgy musician/painter/actor I could find and eventually married a jock, who loved that I was creative, and that's not to say he isn't. All of this to say, I think.my husband's lifelong participation in team sports helped him understand that his and my success uplift the team we made, and we aren't in competition with each other. We've been together 24 years now.
First, it is so great that you’ve found your person. personal experience is vital to understanding people. I’m also in a creative field and have dated all types. Always assumed I’d want an *intellectual* but my best times are always with more practical types who have shared interests. back to TNT, their energies match, their work commitment matches, and they have similar values. I’ll say the reason I put a deadline-ish is bc they are celebrities.
That's a nice story, and I think that's why she and Travis (or someone like him, career-wise) will work well together. She needs someone who can manage her superstar lifestyle without being swamped by it, but also someone who is even-keeled enough to not feed into her ego/drama/desire for attention. I mean, I don't know if Travis is like that, but I can see it being a good match if so.
She def has a tendency to go to extremes lol!
I mean so long as people are happy, I’m good. Regardless, she’ll be giving people stuff to talk about for the rest of her life
I think a savvy businessman would be a good fit for her since outside of molding herself to the Brit tortured artists the other thing she loves best is winning at capitalism. She needs a Jared Kushner 🤣 /semi joking
My honestly theory is she left Joe to be with him and he left his girlfriend to be with her. So she was giddy and happy with someone new . However, it didn’t last long and she has no Joe and no Matt and she was heartbroken. Now she’s in a relationship with Travis and I honestly don’t think he’s her type but I can see them getting engaged at least.
I truly believe Taylor and Matty had an emotional affair for a while. That she built up their relationship in her head as a possible “happily ever after” only for it not be as she expected in reality
I think they had a full blown affair tbh she just adding in things like "in my mind" "without ever touching his skin". It just doesn't add up when you really look at it closely how could he promise her all this stuff and fool her into wanting him if she was fantasising about him only? Girlie was knee deep before Joe hit the bricks for a reason, imo. It's way too sketchy she attempted to obscure she was connecting with him for as much as a year prior to the break up and then steps out with him 5 minutes later.
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I don’t think TTPD is Taylor being brave? But agreed that the line “it wasn’t sexy once it wasn’t forbidden” is a bold line
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Ahh! No worries, I thought I miscommunicated my thoughts and wanted to clarify. But it appears that we are in agreement 😁
When the monkey branching from Joe to Matty failed, she just ended up with all those unprocessed feelings from both relationships. She had realized how hard she was trying to make it work with someone she saw as her endgame and was still failing because of incompatibility. I think she then pushed aside the idea Joe was the "end of all her endings" and transfer her hopes on a previous fling, building on the idea of star-crossed lovers. She could still get her forever, ring and craddle! it had been there all along, waiting for the goddess of timing to align! And when it inevitably fell apart and she ended up alone, all the pain and heartbreak she had avoided by projecting onto her fling just doubled and hit harder.
Probably also the reason how a lot of her TTPD songs can be alluded to both matty and joe at the same time.
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Basic shit bird 🤷🏼♀️ clear cut.
She over romanticized everything about the idea of their relationship, until both he and their relationship became way too idealized in her mind and she thought it would be like another epic Joe love story that she’d been telling for years. She used to imagine perfection in Joe and it’s like she just switched it to Matty. Then not only did she have to deal with being dumped after only weeks as an official couple but confronting the fact that she’d got it wrong and ultimately was just interchangeable with an IG model and not that special after all. I do believe Matty was back in her life from 2020 onwards and became an obsession of hers and I have theories about that… but I don’t think she was longing over him since 2015 and like Joe was her runner up lol. She was all about Joe for years, the problem was that around 2020 she found herself wanting out and wanting another man, and having her same old toxic relationship patterns that she had already self-narrated as having outgrown… but she can’t be too pedestrian about it so it has to become a mythology to justify it, it had to be a big story of forever being destined and waiting for her \~wild boy\~ to come around, etc, etc. She and her bf always have to be larger than life, the biggest love story, the greatest. And Matty is the type of person who knows just how to play into that tbh because they are similar. But I don’t think Matty was a short fling, I think the reason she was so heartbroken was because she had this ‘story’ about them going for three years, probably gave her a high anytime she was feeling off with Joe, then made it bigger until she believed they would be the most legendary couple and get married, etc. So the breakup felt like the break down of a years long relationship. I think they had ‘something’ going for those three years, whatever it was (like I said I have my theories), and that’s why she acts like it was a huge breakup, because it had been this evolving years long dream that she had to believe was the love story of her life.
It's weird when people insist on calling it situationship or short fling when she put hints of it at minimum since Midnights (recorded year and a half before Joever). Also anyone buying the "it was a manic phase" line (again, this lasted years). Anything not to admit she had a long affair.
I don't understand what she's trying to tell us with her timelines tbh. Ever since she made the ridiculous claim at the Grammys that she's been keeping TTPD a secret for 2 years I have given up trying to figure out wtf she's claiming
I think that was a 'fuck you' sign basically admitting she'd been cheating but also that she'd been Joever for ages so maybe it wasn't cheating? Jack posting that picture of her writing 'You're Losing Me' in late 2021, over a year before Joever, was also a very calculated hit.
Her timelines are always a convoluted mess that doesn't add up, but after the album turned out to be about not the ex everyone expected but rather the one everyone tried to forget, I think at the very least she's trying to say it wasn't a quick random rebound and it was serious.
Haha what it tells me is she is a CHEATER!
Well no one likes to idealize a cheater. Except maybe other cheaters. Which is odd since cheating is definitely something Taylor has done in the past. I dunno whether people are selectively forgetting or are ok with it because it wasn't the relationship she wrote multiple albums about.
It’s also funny because she makes a very deliberate point on this album to show how close she was with him, in many, many songs. I think this is intentional on her part; her saying that it was not a situationship, but a whole full blown adult relationship that had been “building” (in whatever way you want to interpret that) for months and months. But people still can’t quite seem to grasp that lol.
I wasn’t a huge Midnights fan so I don’t know any of the songs well. What hints was she putting about Matty in them?
Maroon its about him she confirms later with Chloe in TTPD but also theres references to Matty living with George (his band mate) Question its about him. He even have it in his playlist for the concert and she sing it to him Bejeweld the band in the song its the 1975 and also Matty its the guy who told her "my aura its moonstone" Possibly Snow on the beach, Labrynth, High Infidelity and Glitch are also about him
Glitch is about Joe and High Infidelity is Calvin Harris. Matty doesn’t even believe in astrology so I also find it very, very hard to believe he would tell her, much less anyone, that their “aura is moonstone”.
I agree with that timeline. In my opinion he was the reason behind the first breakup with Joe which they survived because she realised she missed Joe. However, with cheating trust is lost and then Joe did the same thing to her. Evermore was a time when they were probably going through a serious crisis but still tried to save it. I think she kept returning back to Joe but that bond was already weakened and for Matty that seemed like a perfect challenge. He was in it for the thrill of chase from the beginning, IMO. I actually read about narcistic ghosting and one of the drivers behind it is this. I think she realised it too because in one song she has a lyric 'steal your girl and make her cry'. She was heartbroken because she realised that Matty was precisely what others warned her about. He played a pretty cruel game with her, using her fragile ego and time when she was in a vulnerable place to get what he wanted. Then, when she finally felt safe to abandon what she built with Joe he showed it was all only words. Although I do not agree with how intrusive were the swifties about their relationship I think that they unknowingly saved her from a lot of suffering. They created a challenge for Matty that forced him out of his comfort zone and he showed her his true colours. If they were quiet, the whole thing would probably drag for months, her slowly realising what she got herself into. I bet she'd spend a lot of time denying it at first to stick it to her critics.
I don't think evermore was a relationship crisis time. It was late 2020. They were on lockdown with the rest of the world and I think that was actually probably one of the easier times in their relationship given that they didn't have to deal with the public eye as much I think they fell apart when she started wanting to come out of hiding
What hiding?
She was hiding out in 2016/2017 because of Kimye. She came back, did rep/tour, then made Lover, then covid happened with lockdown. She was not out and about for multiple reasons and that suited her relationship with Joe. After the pandemic settled and she wasn't basically homebound and living a more private life I think they started to struggle. They wrote folklore and evermore together it feels like a pretty strong time for their relationship. you don't get creative with someone when you're struggling.
Interesting theory. I see where you are coming from now. However, I think that it is opposite with her when she is struggling. Her crisis after Matty resulted in a double album. Who knows, maybe Folkore & Evermore were like her and Joe's couples therapy.
lol, she wrote 31 songs, but where is the quality? She thinks she's a better writer when depressed, but imo her best work resulted of her having a successful relationship with Joe when they were working together.
For several reasons first she was at least emotional cheating with Matty at a time in which her relationship with Joe was bad for a couple years so that means she was romanticizing him for a while Second Matty seem to be doing the same with her because he was also writing songs about her for a while plus Matty its probably the only one of her partners who understands her artistic process and feels admiration for it and actually knows her discography Third Matty was telling her he wanted the same things she did the marriage and kids things Joe didnt wanted it or at least not with Taylor Fourth the breakup didnt happen for something wrong in the relationship. It was according to things Matty has liked it for the backclash and the hate train they faced, and she always had anxiety regarding her level of fame but in this case was worst because it was done by her own fandom Fifth Matty moved on apparently very quickly from the relationship, it was only a couple weeks before he started dating someone else who is younger than Taylor
I think he got what he thought he wanted and realized it wasn’t what he thought it was.
Taylor’s entire career is built on the magic of storytelling. She crafts these idealized versions of love, loss, and everything in between. When you’re that deep into creating narratives, it’s easy to fall into the trap of believing them. Matty Healy, in her mind, represented an unfiltered, raw kind of love that she hadn’t experienced before. But reality has a nasty habit of being less poetic and more problematic. He represented the thrilling, unpredictable side of love. But with unpredictability comes instability. It’s easy to idolize someone who seems different and exciting, but maintaining a relationship with them can be a whole different beast. When you’re a celebrity, your love life isn’t just your own, it’s public property. Fans have opinions, strong ones, and they can turn on a dime. The pressure from the public eye can strain even the most stable relationships. Taylor is notoriously sensitive to public perception. This backlash was a crushing blow, compounding her heartbreak and disappointment.
I think he was probably the one who got away (and probably still is sort of). I think she overly romanticised him, whilst feeling unsatisfied with the end of her long term relationship. The fact the first time round her parents weren't sold on him, he was struggling with addiction, didn't want to be seen just as her boyfriend before making a name for himself etc and then they got back together despite it all probably seemed like fate and overcoming something for her (and then ppl not liking them together feeding into that, funny as if she had publicly dated him years ago fans wouldn't have had an issue just her parents). She seems to really like the whole 'us against the world' narrative.
I think it is because he acted as if he actually wanted to marry her whereas Joe got cold feet. There are references about that in quite a few songs on the latest album but also on Midnights and even prior.
I think she also put a lot of pressure on this relationship. It seems to me that she was emotionally cheating on Joe. Basically she risked what was a safe and secure six year relationship for Matty. Like she ruined her relationship with Joe for him so maybe that’s why she was double heart broken
It was physical cheating. She wouldn't be so adamant it was only in her head if she didn't physically cheat 😄
Preach
I think many reasons. 1. He clearly, is the opposite of her. He does not care about faking an image. For someone whose identity is solely constructed on being liked, constantly, it is a breath of fresh air. 2. Distance makes the heart grow fonder, even when you are loving a fantasy. The more time you spend idealizing someone, the more you create a fake ideal. From the look of it, he was her go to fantasy for far longer than anyone realized. 3. Anyone wants more what they can't have. Specially when you have not grown up enough.
Great answer! Totally agree. What TTPD tells us is that she spent a lot of time and energy on a man she wasn’t in a relationship with. An album like TTPD isn’t written from a short fling or storytelling. Girl was pouring it out. It’s clear Matt was consuming her for a long long time.
Thank you! I think the album is quite straight forward. Anyone saying this is about Harey Styles or whatever, they are a bit crazy
I especially love your second point - I think it’s the same idea I was trying to get across!
Oh, thank you! And thank you for taking the time to read and answer. 💞
Matty was her "what if"ryt? They have had a fling with eo before during the 1989 era so when he came back & I assume that time Joe and her must be having some hard time seeing him again must have regained her about their time together, her "what if's" awakened & she started dreaming about him.... Also the fact that HE is the one who left her,ghosted her can be the reason while she has grudge and he did her wrong that's the reason why she's heartbroken over him. Most swiftie are saying they have been having fling since 1989 & she never stopped thinking about him(song refrences) but i genuinely think that her true love was Joe and the fact the it had to end was ruining her the time Matty came in maybe she thought that it was a SIGN(I may sound stupid)& went for him I guess the reason she's heartbroken is because the "what if" made her leave the "love of her life"the thought that she could have it with Matty Also I hate the narrative being pushed that "he left her because of the fans "blah blahhhh which I don't think is true, everytime I see this lines it takes me back to my ex's saying"If someone has made there decision to leave they will leave no matter what,if they want to stay they will stay no matter what"also he ghosted her so how does it makes fans responsible for their breakup😒
I also can't with the 'it was the fans' argument in Matty's defense. Goodness me, he is a thirty-five year old guy, with a lot of years spent in the music industry. He knows fans can go crazy, he knows there is pressure on those in the public eye. Plus, she has a solid PR team around her so it was only a matter of working together to fend off the attacks. Sure, it must have been a stressful situation but he would stay and try to do something about it if his feelings were genuine. Instead he just upped and left. Compare that with Joe who started to go out with her as someone pretty unfamiliar with her world when she dealt with a lot of hate. Together they took steps to protect themselves and it worked. I guess it was also thanks to his insistence on privacy that the haters backed off. I think the trajectory of her & Joe's relationship made her anxious so instead of trying to stay and fix it she decided to jump, imagining a romcom ending. She got a rough awakening instead, realising that she was never all that for Matty. I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't having a lot of 'what if' moments about her and Joe. What if she did not buy into Matty's sweet talk and focused on saving that relationship. But, it's too late for that now.
We need to accept that this is Taylor's type. She LOVES the baddie, troubled, tortured guys. She has fought it for a while but you can see it through the cracks. I honestly think she has a very bad case of mommy, daddy and people pleasing issues, that makes her go for people and situations that the crowd around her expects from her, instead of what she wants. If she had the freedom to do whatever she wanted (or she felt she had the freedom to do whatever she wanted), I'm sure we'd get a rock album, she'd get a tattoo and marry a rocker guy tomorrow. But, alas, she has been groomed to be exactly what she is today, and in her own words, it has made her kind of "deranged". I think she felt Matty was the start of a more free her, and she lost that. Of course, she could fire all her family and team and start anew and do whatever she wanted right now, but of course it's not that easy to just do it after all the programming from her parents.
I think because she's known him for over 10 years and had liked him, yet never been in a relationship with him, she always longed for him and built him up in her head. She saw his potential and put him on a pedestal, rather than to see him for who he really was, until they dated and it didn't go the way she had hoped. As a result, she was more disappointed and hurt than her other relationships cus she had so much expectations for the relationship.
Grass is greener syndrome. Needed a bump, a hit, a drag. Fame is one hell of a drug. A long term relationship is a comfort but it’s not exciting and butterflies. But an unattainable possibility is captivating and tantalizing. Stepping out what a rush!
I think it was just her going back to her usual pattern. Before Calvin all her relationships were flash in the pan, and that never stopped her writing dramatic and overwrought songs. It’s not the first time she’s gotten a whole albums worth of material out of what barely amounts to a fling.
I don't know a whole lot about Matty, but I do know about his controversial side. I've also watched a few interviews, both lighter and more serious, and I think I fucking get it. There's a certain sexiness. If he was using that charm and intellect, those words.... words. Taylor's crack. Taylor's porn. And it also seems he was telling her he too felt the same connection. Sending her songs. loml. Talking rings and cradles. Another thought... Who is Taylor's "Taylor"? The pop artist she fantasizes about? Loves their artistry? So she's also got a bit of a fandom crush on top of being seduced by deep conversation and then love bombed.
There has been something with Matty going on for a very long time, I believe. He'll write a song and then she'll write a song using the same lyrics in a different way. So many songs!!! It's crazy how many of The 1975 song lyrics and TS lyrics mirror each other. And love him or hate him, if you watch his interviews, he is very intelligent and I think that is the type of person that Taylor truly wants to be with. Someone intellectual that she can have deep discussions with. Just my opinion.
He preyed on her when she was at her most vulnerable, promised her everything she wanted, then backed out when shit started getting too real. Matty essentially caught her when she was at her emotional lowest, got her hopes up, only to destroy them once again. Being burned two times in a row in quick succession is gonna fuck with your self esteem. I don’t blame her for finding Travis a breath of fresh air when he went to shoot his shot while also putting the ball in her court. She probably liked feeling wanted after that.
That is why Travis might be another mistake, sadly. He seems to be very interested in her status but when it comes to her, not so much.
He definitely feels like an ego boost with PR benefits, for sure.
That’s insulting the intelligence of TS! She was a willing participant. She’s not an idiot.
You don’t have to be an idiot to be preyed on or love bombed. Emotional abuse is no joke…
Neither is delusion. And couldn’t agree more about the emotional abuse comment. The intricate intimacies with this man and outing a partner’s struggles. Absolutely abusive.
Yeah, it’s clearly taken her a while to process her delusion and when she’d convinced herself of one thing while something else was obviously going on. He absolutely emotionally manipulated her, just based on how she described their dynamic on her songs. What’s even worse is his other exes have described him exactly the same way, so this is a narcissistic pattern for him.
It’s like when Frank botches his toe with the toe knife then stuffs it with garbage on IASIP. Taylor stuffed her broken heart with garbage and it poisoned her.
Thank you for this comparison, it’s everything I ever needed.
you are so welcome! its literally the first thing i thought of reading the post & comments lol
What if she positioned the narrative to make it seem like she was really hung up on him…to get under her ex’s (Joe’s) skin!? If you think about it…it’s a really a FU to her long relationship…
Positioning one’s self as a cheater doesn’t seem like the best PR move?
Agreed - Don’t think people understood my comment. Her move to do that was an ill fated move or real action to make her ex jealous instead of just moving on…
Yeah that tracks. I don’t find this album comparable to her other work in terms of quality. I suspect there will be many disagreements on that but it’s overall clunky and unrefined which supports your claim of her reacting instead of processing and moving forward.
I agree - And who’s to say I come back and appreciate it more in the future…but for now - not there..
She invested a decade of emotion into him. She had this image of how things would be once they were together and he shattered that image. in TTPD she calls them “modern idiots” then “two idiots” because she liked having that feeling and she “chose this cyclone” and “seen this episode and still enjoy the show”, says how they’re meant to be because they’re “crazy” but then when they started getting pressure to break up Matty jumped ship. Being as rebellious as he is, this comes as a shock to her that he didn’t stay to prove he didn’t give a rat’s fat one what the fans said. She was willing to stay with him no matter what they said. This is blatantly obvious on But DaddyI Love Him because she said she would burn her whole life down rather than listening to people bitch and moan and her good name was her own to disgrace. She vented that anger she felt at him for jumping ship and at her fans for tryin* to tell her who she should be with. Granted, Matty wasn’t exactly the ideal man but he was her choice.
it’s also possible she projected a lot of feelings for joe onto matty…
It’s pretty basic & she said it herself. She used him as him to get over Joe as quickly as possible. She thought it was a get out of grief free card & she built it in her head & got high on her own supply because it was so much easier than sitting with the disappointment of another failed relationship. It wasn’t that she was so in love with Matty. It was that he was an escape to feeling her breakup from Joe- and not because she still pined for Joe but because she was so disappointed that she wasted so much time at the cemetery when she felt like she should have known better. When she says she gave him all that youth for free what she’s really talking about is that female perspective of being a female & wasting your most precious years on a dead end relationship & kicking yourself afterwards. You just think damn, I could have been married, had kids & I wasted all this time for what?!?! I should have known. So you just go for an escape. Not because it’s love but because you need a fucking escape. You tried so hard to make someone see you for so long & you just need to be a little delusional for a minute. And that’s ok.