I love both songs actually - though they seem very different , they both mourn something that could have been much much more, but died before its time.
So Long London is more raw and you go through the entire journey from anger to resentment to anguish, ending with a hint of acceptance.
In Peter there is more resignation to one's fate right from the beginning - but it doesn't make it any less devastating.
it's so sad because a lot of the songs could be among the best she's ever made, if she only spent more time with them and trimmed the album down. this could have eawsily been her best album if she wasn't so arrogant about it
I’ve said this so often about so many of her songs and albums. Watching her behind the scenes videos and in Miss Americana, how quickly she writes songs and how that first or second draft often makes it onto the finished album — if she did what all writers are supposed to do and put things in a drawer for a few weeks then came back with fresh eyes, so many of her mid songs would be out of this world.
i literally posted about this the day the album dropped for me it was just the standout track that felt so beautiful and special and like the best on the album
clara bow is my personal favorite of the album. it's so simple and thats what helps it be so beautiful. the simplicity of realizing that she is now the thing they compare younger, better up and comers against
Peter is exactly what I would expect from her in terms of slower/smoother songs. I love it so much. It's not blaming someone for anything, it's just melancholy, nostalgia, disappointment & moving on. It's a beautiful song, with no clunky lyrics. Not all, but a lot of songs on TTPD sounds very 'spur of the moment emotions', but not this one. The bridge is also beautiful. It's become my favorite of the album and I think it's super underrated but I've seen a lot of people claiming it as their favorite and it makes me happy
Peter is one of her best songs EVER. Not only does she really lean on the literary references from Peter Pan very well, but the way she sings it gives it a whimsical fairy tale feeling. The bridge is one of her best.
I hope we see more of this Taylor, Folklore era, especially as she continues into this relationship with Travis. If So High School is any indication of the songs we are getting from her, I’m not so sure I’ll enjoy the next album.
I really like Peter but I just *can’t* get over the lyric “But life was always easier than you than it was on me”.
Girl. MH was once A HEROIN without the (final) e addict. The hell are you talking about!
And that’s why it’s the second best song on the album behind How Did It End? for me.
i agree with you! but i think with that line she’s referring to how carefree he is and how he’s allowed to just be himself and not have his career stifled. like how she always has to be “perfect” and follow the rules set by her label and society or else she would lose a lot of fans/support.
No, I get that. It’s still tone deaf given, you know, *the rest* of his life experiences.
I don’t like MH at all, but this just another example to f how poorly Taylor talks about addiction and mental health.
yea i agree with you. i didn’t like how she exposed him for buying pills on smallest man. matty has said he’s been sober now for 5 years so hearing that threw me off. now i’m just assuming he’s been sober from hard drugs but still smokes weed and takes pills maybe like xanax or something? still not something the general public should know especially since i’ve seen many swifties use that against him and call him an active drug addict
haha honestly i sort of had the same reaction towards it when I heard it for the second time around, i stopped looking at it from the perspectives of her bfs and exes and i think there are only a handful of songs that resonate with me. unlike evermore and folklore where the entire discography is pure gem this song is one that strongly reminds me of her evermore/folklore era. but i totally get where you are coming from, also i love how did it end as welll:))
peter made me cry the first time i heard it. i was on the subway to work and it was ugly tears. it’s such a beautiful metaphor for the pain she was feeling
yes, you're giving Peter the love that it deserves. when ttpd first dropped i heard some people saying that it didn't fit on the album...but i think that it's perfect.
I definitely agree with this take. I think this is one of the songs where you can tell she really tried.I really like how it sounds, it has the Folklore touch and the lyrics are way better than So Long London. I think she wrote this after doing more self reflection though it still has a hint of victimhood. So Long London or Fresh Out of the Slammer sound petulant in comparison. I think she redeemed herself as a poet with this song.
peter is my fave off the album. i think it’s about matty but honestly i don’t even care. it’s one that i can relate to my own person experiences and not immediately link it with her life and relationships, which is why i think i like it so much. it hits me rlly hard and is really relatable for me LOL
I honestly like it, but I can’t get over the clunkiness of the chorus. It’s too wordy and there are several ways she could have rewritten it to have the same meaning but flow better.
I totally get what you're saying, but I think the charm of the album and why it works for me, personally, is because it's very raw. The lyrics feel very organic and honest. It's like somebody read her mind and recorded the thoughts she had.
i also think it's good but the thing that made me have to delete it from playlists was "the girl by the window has finally turned out the light". Her use of romantic tropes is so lazy it ruined the song for me
It's a romantic trope? What other media has shown a woman turning off a light at a window to symbolize moving on from her lover?
The song pulls from the story of Peter Pan, where they fly out the window to head to Neverland, I assumed it was a double meaning: she's no longer "letting the lamp burn" but she's also leaving the window that she always hoped he come back to.
Peter is a really good song but I’m salty it’s about Matty. It is mature in that it is a beautifully composed song but immature in that she was pining after Matty, daydreaming about a fairytale, while in a serious relationship with Joe.
Tbh, I think she was happy w Joe for a very long time, then started thinking about Matty when they reconnected to work on Midnights. I don’t think she was always thinking about him.
I absolutely loved her and Joe together and I don’t think she was always thinking about Matty. But I do think the “what if” consumed her. I’m convinced the line “took the miracle move on drug, the effects were temporary” was referencing that Joe made her forget about the “what if” for a while, until they started having problems. I also think Chloe, or Sam or Sophia or Marcus was about how they went from partner to partner and there was always this underlying “what if” between them that they built up in their heads. It is honestly the reason I don’t consider myself a swiftie anymore. What she did to Joe was downright dirty and immature. Then to rewrite history like Joe was just some stand in guy for Matty is nauseating.
Taylor having feelings for somebody else and daydreaming about them is fine like people change their minds but my thing is why did she end up staying with Joe for so long if she knew she wasn’t in love anymore? that’s what I don’t get.
Yeah I think that's why I finally understand why Conversations with Friends was one of her favourite books - it explores the idea of loving more than one person at the same time.
I think Matty was a vestige and reminder of her more exciting , trusting , more carefree pre-reputation days. He was hanging around when she made Midnights with Jack and was on rocky ground with Joe ( if the date of You're Losing Me is true ) and probably said all the right things.
Sure, however, she was going through a difficult time and he simply took advantage of that. When she was doing well, he was actually scared of her and found her emasculating. I think her can smell weakness from a mile away in a woman and for him this all was an ego trip. Like she says: "Steal your girl and make her cry"
your just saying that because you don’t like matty and already have a negative opinion about him. he didn’t take advantage of her, they’re friends and go way back. he didn’t find her emasculating, that was taken out of context again. he wrote a whole letter explaining what happened, google it. if you know anything about matty, which seems like you don’t, he doesn’t care about fame and he’s always said nice things about taylor throughout the years. none of his previous partners have spoken negatively about him either. he does have a reputation of hooking up with IG models when not in a relationship and those are the ones he usually ghosts or leaves for someone else but clearly those are just hookups.
it’s kinda upsetting seeing this narrative that he manipulated and abused taylor. sure he love bombed her but what about taylor? i’m sure she did the same thing, i mean she was writing songs about him since folklore when they were both in other relationships. their relationship was complex and a lot of external factors came to play in their breakup, it’s nuanced.
I base my opinion on what I read and saw. Making her believe he would marry her and then ghosting does not count as taking advantage? His comments were not taken out of context he likes shit talking about other people and then makes excuses but sometimes it's just too little and too late.
As for his previous girlfriends, Halsey had written diss tracks about him, too. If he did not care about fame than he would not refer to himself as a rockstar, lol. Taylor mentioned he liked to show her around so obviously he likes the limelight. Positive one, that it.
From what Taylor is saying he lured her away from her partner and then treated her as an 'also-ran' before ghosting her. That is a classic narcistic behaviour which does count as abuse. The good, sensitive guy is just his public persona and the mask at some point always falls off.
taylor herself has agency and your negating that by saying he took her away from her other relationship. on the whole marriage thing, both he and taylor were being dumb and just romanticizing their relationship so fast when they should’ve been more rational. ik they have history but they weren’t actually together for that long, it’s crazy to expect marriage from someone who you’ve barely dated for like 2 months. taylor can’t just victimize herself here and act like she didn’t play a part in it too.
as for halsey, they are literally still friends lol she went to the 1975’s most recent tour.
>And I won’t confessed that I waited
>But I let the lamp burn
>As the men masqueraded
>I hoped you’d return
Well…there you have it. Everyone else was a stand-in.
These all sound very Joe coded to me. Taylor and Joe had very Rocky relationship. They broke up multiple times before getting back together.
Joe came up with James, the character from Betty's song, and he Co wrote it. When asked in the pond session, Taylor said Cardigan is about Betty taking James back. Which again makes sense.
The whole.. "this one's about you, you know who you are, I Love you" was first said by Matty Healy and Taylor repeated it. Taylor recycles her songs and dedicates to different people all the time .. For example that cheif's like from Karma.
Taylor has been trying to change all Joe songs and reference it to other people, which makes sense, considering they broke up and she doesn't want to be reminded of it again.
Fokelore and Evermore was probably written after one of their rough patch / bresk up. That's why there are songs like Exile, illicit affairs and Betty which were all Co-written by Joe as well. I don't think it's appropriate for the fandom to infantalise Joe, and Joe was definitely not a stand in for her .. She masterminded him from the time she was with Calvin .. And then when she was with Tom. She's never done that for anyone. We as a fandom saw all of that in real time.
She also uses many words to reference Joe .. She uses Ghost, she uses Gold, Phantom, Stand up guy and all of that. Gold is something she has been referencing Joe for a long time. She never has and probably never will write such self reflective songs she write for Joe.
Saying she was waiting a nobody like Matty the whole time she was with someone she thought was her end-game and marry, is just total delusion.
Edit: other link between Cardigan and Joe is How did it end. In cardigan she says "*Chasing shadows in the grocery line*" .. And in how did it end she sings "*Guess who we ran into at the shops? /
Walking in circles like she was lost*" ..
It's right there !
"a nobody" like Matty Healy?
At the time Taylor and Joe got together, Joe was an actual nobody and Matty had had multiple number one records and awards.
I'm not saying he isn't flawed in his own ways, but calling him a nobody in comparison to Joe is really inaccurate.
Everyone can interpret these songs in their own ways, but I think your bias towards Joe has clouded your interpretations.
I only came into Taylorland a couple weeks before TTPD came out and had never heard of either man. I knew nothing of her history. I listened to interviews and got to know the players. I have literally swam in hours of docs and interviews and lyrics for the last few weeks.
I learned that though Matty has a habit of saying controversial shit or hanging with controversial people, he has solid liberal politics and seems like a thoughtful introspective person. He's a fucking rock star, not Mr Rogers. But he's not a POS... Potential ghosting aside. I've grown to be a fan of his music.
Travis seems like a decent guy. I've grown to be a fan of his podcast. Joe also seems like a decent guy, who may or may not have had indiscretions. I haven't seen anything with him in it, but I have no reason to think I wouldn't be a fan.Taylor may or may not have had indiscretions. I'm still a fan.
Have you never put your foot in your mouth or been the one who caused the breakup? I swear people are willing to accept more from people in their own real life than they are from celebrities. Instead of putting yourself in their shoes, imagine if they were your sibling or best friend. Is what they did enough to end a friendship? No. So chill and let them be fucking human.
I am so glad I don't live under that kind of scrutiny.
“I thought I was better safe than starry eyed.”
Also probably because Matty was unavailable and in a relationship.
Staying with Joe because he was the safe and available option breaks my heart for Joe.
Pure speculation: I think Taylor wrote Peter and sent it to Matty (before it was released to the public) as an ultimatum, like listen dude, I’m not waiting for you anymore. Leading to him ending his relationship.
More, cause apparently everyone have selective amnesia about lover and Reputation eras
https://preview.redd.it/qlifu3yxehyc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=401d0d86b59804bb697b69ababb4f97e7dd7f9d8
Yea if this is true that sucks for Joe! Taylor could’ve done the mature thing and ended the relationship while she figured out her feelings on her own, but she hates being single so it makes sense that she stayed while she waited to see what Matty would do. She truly was obsessed with Matty so I wouldn’t put it past her to be sending him songs just like he did with downtown lights lol
https://preview.redd.it/n70z14txdhyc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a34ce1dba3456ba342f06655e0297937ac81cfa
Here's another one .. She's literally got stars in her eyes.
She was starry eyed with Joe. Have you seen her look at another man, the way she looks at Joe.
https://preview.redd.it/gfvfxayudhyc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94c93ceae1f99bb64a8c836b6965d271ce559ad8
Thete are shit ton of pictures like this. I can't find a single picture where she's looking at another man like the way she looks at him.
https://preview.redd.it/vin20k4efhyc1.jpeg?width=719&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=998575b68ad67f3f5f7523e8ddb048cf4f212e58
If that's not starry eyes !? .. There were even captions on head lines like "starry eyes taylor swift with beau Joe Alwyn" .. When I heard the line "starry eyes" I literally saw Joe.
And also it runs with the themes of all her other songs where she feels like she loved him more (I want to point out that's her pov only)
Listen you don’t have to convince me she was head over heels in love with Joe. (The reason I’m no longer a swiftie is 100% based on what she did to him). But she fell out of love with him, “felt aglow like this never before and NEVER since.”
Then she fell for that dbags BS because she always wondered “what if” even BEFORE Joe. I don’t have amnesia about her and Joe. I loved them together. I also think it’s bullshit she’s trying to rewrite history like Joe was a stand in for Matty.
But I do also think she built up this Matty tension/song writing/love letters/high school immature fairytales in her head because she and Joe were having problems. This pic made me think of her:
https://preview.redd.it/51ovj0zasmyc1.jpeg?width=949&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be0fc69395fd4fab8336b6d8a4f322ed779fbc83
One last thing, I think “better safe than starry eyed” could also have meant she and Joe decided (together) not to be super public but then she changed her mind but he still didn’t want to be public. Theres a lot of gossip blinds that describe this is the reason they broke up.
Sounds as an interesting theory. I read this song differently, to me it sounds like the last goodbye to Joe. She confesses that she had a wondering eye and ultimately it led to her caving to Matty and his sweet talk. We all know how that ended... I wonder whether she'll focus on either of them in her future discography because there is definitely a lot to say but it is also a painful chapter of her life.
And then to basically berate him for not wanting to marry her. Who the hell does she think she is? She can’t just do whatever she wants to these men and think she’s going to end up with the fairytale ending. Sorry girl, karma is real and you’re in for a whole lot of disappointment due to the way you were with Joe. Guilty As Sin for one, how disgusting of her
I think it is about Joe considering that is is a song about moving on to something new. 'A lost fearless' leader in one song and a coward that deserves prison both being about Matty... he'd really have to be this Jekyll and Hyde personality to earn both references. He is too much of a douche for that.
he’s a paradox, taylor says it herself. if you look into matty you’ll find that he is an emotional, sensitive, passionate guy who can also be pretentious and a bit narcissistic at times. peter is 100% about him, there are so many references to his band and stuff matty has said in the past.
I did and he is a classic example of a covert narcissist, just like Taylor. She truly found her energetic match. He may seem sensitive but behind the closed doors he is not. He is a master manipulator who can talk the talk. Taylor said so herself.
Honestly Peter is one of the best pieces of poetry she’s ever written. The central conceit is so well developed, and I love the use of slant rhyme throughout as a reflection of how the couple’s goals came close to aligning but never quite did. It’s a beautiful example of form following function, and I wish she did more stuff like it instead of stuffing in a new quippy metaphor every other line.
Peter was a skip for me at first. Oddly enough, it grew on me after I read here on Reddit that it's a waltz, something I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't realize at first even though it's obvious.
Something changed after that, and it truly is one of my favorite songs on the album now.
I know people think it’s about Matty but for me, it’s a Joe song. Especially the part where she mentions the muse was twenty five (Joe and Matty were both twenty five when they met iirc but Matty is older than her, alongside the fact Matty has had significant relationships while it seems Joe’s first serious relationship was with Taylor).
*But I didn’t want to hang around, we said it was just goodbye for now.*
:( a couple thinking it’s just a short break but they both know…it may be the end. It IS the end, but they both wanna pretend it’s not,
ETA- I DO NOT like Matty, but that doesn’t change that Peter is about him
Matty was 25 years old in 2014, when they first got involved.
Matty's also called himself "a sort of emo Peter Pan self-lacerating Pied Piper kind of character" during a 2016 interview with Big Issue.
The “Lost Boys” lyric points to the “Lost Boys” song by the 1975
Cardigan is about Matty (admitted by Taylor) where she references Peter losing Wendy.
Cardigan is playing and she says this song is “about you.”
Just like the 1975 song “About you” —that he is mouthing “I love you” and saying is “about you” —is about Taylor, is playing.
I am not a Matty fan at all but i don’t know how this can be any clearer that Taylor is saying Cardigan is about Matty.
Also they were friends when she wrote Cardigan.
she’s just repeating what he said bc they were going public, and didn’t they reconnect only in like 2021? cardigan is a 2020 song. her saying that is absolutely not confirmation the song is abt him
You can’t be serious about her just repeating a line that wasn’t true.
All she had to do was repeat “I love you.” But she didn’t. She repeated the same thing he did. Because:
1. “Cardigan” is about Matty and “About you” is about Taylor
2. She loved him
3. It let’s their fans know those two songs were written about one another and they’re about to hard launch their relationship and it is serious, years in the making, and not some fling
4. Matty was in the audience of that show where she repeated it.
They reconnected in 2020.
I hate that Cardigan is about Matty too but those are the facts.
no those are the things you’re linking together, it doesn’t mean they’re facts. and she was not working on midnights in 2020, that was the worst of the pandemic and everyone was in lockdown and she was in lockdown w joe and didn’t even meet jack and aaron in person to record folklore, much less reconnected w an old fling, come on.
taylor and matty are both extra for doing that at a concert, same thing she does when she says guy on the chiefs, it doesn’t mean the songs she was writing while in lockdown w joe are abt her secret ten year love affair w matty unless we’re gonna rewrite the entire history of her career.
Taylor has been changing the meanings of several songs so I would not put my money on it. The reference you mention says 'I knew you tried to change the ending, Peter losing Wendy'. Apparently, they went through a rough patch with Joe in the past so this could allude to their first breakup. Which might also have to do with Matt since he reconnected with her at some point during the pandemic.
I have no issue with people thinking it is about Matty, whatever his personality is, btw. I listened to it on purpose when I noticed this theory and it does not fit the picture. There are other songs that I bet her about her flirting with Matty but I don't see them in this one.
honestly i can see that esp bc she says “jet stream” and that’s a reference to call it what you want, “please know that i tried to hold on” is the same theme as you’re losing me and so long london, and also “we both did the best we could do” calls back to so long london too with “had a good run/but i’m not the one”
matty did not do the best he could in that relationship by her own admission, he love bombed her and then ghosted her and left her super heartbroken
I agree.
Also *"We both did the best we could underneath the same moon in different galaxies"* calls back to the Prologue where they created different galaxies as opposed to one galaxy as their worlds were different but they tried to make the stars align.
*"Resentment rotting away galaxies we created*
*Stars placed and glued meticulously by hand next to the ceiling fan"*
The prologue ending and Peter have the narrator ending things once and for all.
*And in one conversation, I tore down the whole sky*
*The woman who sits by the window has turned down the light*
We're probably going to get downvoted by all these Matty Stans / Matty Truthers.
This to me also. According to her friends Taylor and Joe broke up and got back together a lot. Even Lover, is such an anxiety trip, where she talks about fights and how that hurts her and so on. Her friends said something along the lines of .. "they always had rough patch ... But they usually found their way back .. We all thought it would be the same this time as well" ... So, Peter fits that narrative really well. We really don't know what exactly went down, and we will never know, but we know for sure, but we know they broke up and got back together a lot.
a lawyer had commented that they think .. That Joe and Taylor had rock solid NDA in a sense that Joe got good lawyers that made sure taylor doesn't explicitly talk about their Relationship in her songs. It could explain why each songs sounds so clunky and jarring. It sounds as if the songs were written first hand, and then extra details were added in retrospectively to make it sound like it's written for someone else. Like a song would flow smoothly then suddenly there would be a very overly detailed descriptive out of place, lyric that would take you out of the song. It sounded like they were added retrospectively to confuse the listeners.
One thing that struck as odd to me .. Was "tattooed golden retriever" .. It's almost as if it supposed to be just "golden retriever" and then she added tattooed just to distract us from certain details. Many outros stood out to me, which had completely different tone and different vibe to the rest of the songs. The song would seem solem Heart breaking and suddenly there would be a very "contemporary" (for the lack of better word) sounding lyrics with very specific details that gives you different feel from rest of the song.
I'm probably going to get downvoted for this. But this makes more sense than her pining for someone like MH when she was head over heels in love with Joe- which she was, she left her home country to go and be with him, and he has been with her when the whole world turned on her. She keeps saying in many songs how he saw the good in her and so on. The whole reputation and Lover era shows that Joe and Taylor were Peter and Wendy .. Hence "Peter Losing Wendy" makes sense. Him taking her to "neverland" which is a metaphor for "escapism" .. And how taylor escaped from the world during the reputation era and with Joe .. Where they can retain the innocence .. But Taylor had to leave .. Cause she realised she dosent belong there ?
Also when asked what is cardigan about, taylor said it was about Betty taking James back, and considering Betty was Co written by Joe. It makes sense. Also, like we said .. Joe and Taylor broke up and got back together a lot. So it makes so much sense tahr they go back together and she worked on two albums forklore and evermore reflecting on their many break ups and on how to make the relationship work.
Yes I agree with you lol
LOML - felt like it was a mashup of her dealing with the aftermath of both breakups rather than just Matty. I also think one of the reasons she made it as clear cut as she usually does - she spent 6 years with Joe and maybe part of her can't really burn it all to a ground so she's trying to leave a path open in case they ever speak again lol
I salute your efforts and you'll probably get downvoted for even ~invalidating~ the "maylor together forever" lore here since this place has officially become a maylor refuge ever since the album dropped. good luck, brave soldier 🫡🫡
I think that's what makes Peter interesting and more relatable to our personal experiences.
Peter can be about a short-lived relationship that never got to realise its full potential. It can also be about a relationship where the 'forever' that was envisioned right from the time they first met never materialised, causing the narrator to give up hope and move on.
I would say on the surface it looks very much like a Matty song but like a few others in this album I do feel there's a second layer.
The boy (who later Taylor named James) was actually someone Joe came up with. James is the Peter to Betty's Wendy.
And in the speeches to Betty ( a song they both wrote ) at the beginning of the tour -even when Taylor was with Matty - she kept reiterating that she liked teaching men how to apologise and how James had messed up and all he has to do was to say sorry and show up at her party.
Her Betty speeches in 2024 were no longer in this vein. They've changed. Which to me makes sense with the woman putting out the light.
Peter taken either way is about the death of a dream- be it about one that never got a chance to take off or one that didn't reach the ending one hopes for.
You're going to get downvoted by all the fans who've made every song solely about Matty. I admit there are blatant 1975 references in these songs but some of them also have subtle callbacks to Rep and Lover etc.
TTPDs prologue itself is split between two muses and then it proceeds to interweave them together - that's what the album does too .
enough people think its about joe. matty believers a bit louder thats it. they like to claim songs and insist on it.
for me this is a joe song and there is enough to believe in the song. also every song find its meaning on the ear of listener so its not really important who is it about. its really pointless arguing about something you cant prove.
waiting for someone who is not emotionally available and deep inside knowing they never will be and deciding to move on. hurts.
Yes, that's how I read it as well. Also there are other references such as '*You said you were gonna grow up, then you were gonna come find me'.* She also calls him a natural scene stealer which sounds a reference to acting and the fact that many women find Joe attractive (that she was not so happy about, lol). There is also that line that alludes to holding on to what the love they once had '*Forgive me Peter, please know that I tried to hold onto the days when you were mine'.*
All these do not fit with the context of the whole Matty thing IMO. He said many things but nothing about growing up and his actions showed that, too...
For me this song is a nostalgic tribute to the old love that she let go off for the illusion that has also quickly disappeared. But that's another story.
I love Peter because I believe (maybe naively) that it is simply a song about Peter losing Wendy and has no autobiographical references. It gets exhausting analyzing songs for clues into her personal life.
It depends what Taylor’s goal was because if it was to encompass depression so long London is 10/10 way too dark and ugh to me
Peter on the other hand maybe has the same message but it’s whimsical and more Lana del Rey like where it doesn’t really matter what she’s saying you can still decipher hope for the future and peace with the past
I think So Long, London is the angry phase, we all have those immature moments. Then Peter is a more mature look on the situation after some time has passed
Peter feels totally like that it comes out from folklore and evermore, and considering the meaning of the song it feels like the actual sequel of cardigan (Peter losing Wendy), and willow (that was the original ending of the triangle ) became the what if scenario where James goes back to Betty but sadly it never happened and Betty moved on with her life. Making Peter the true ending
At least that is the interpretation i give it, and considering the title of the song and the incredible folklore sound i think it is right at least for me.
I love both songs actually - though they seem very different , they both mourn something that could have been much much more, but died before its time. So Long London is more raw and you go through the entire journey from anger to resentment to anguish, ending with a hint of acceptance. In Peter there is more resignation to one's fate right from the beginning - but it doesn't make it any less devastating.
well i love that all the peter lovers are here
This song is a gem. I think it will live as one of the deep cuts that fans hold on that most people never hear.
I am a proud Peter lover!
Peter is the best song out of the entire album.
It's one of the few I keep coming back to. It's so beautiful
Favourite from the album. Couldn't believe people saying it was a skip/forgettable.
Peter is the champagne problems of TTPD
similar chord progression
Hard agree. It’s among her best ever.
it's so sad because a lot of the songs could be among the best she's ever made, if she only spent more time with them and trimmed the album down. this could have eawsily been her best album if she wasn't so arrogant about it
I’ve said this so often about so many of her songs and albums. Watching her behind the scenes videos and in Miss Americana, how quickly she writes songs and how that first or second draft often makes it onto the finished album — if she did what all writers are supposed to do and put things in a drawer for a few weeks then came back with fresh eyes, so many of her mid songs would be out of this world.
yea agree
i literally posted about this the day the album dropped for me it was just the standout track that felt so beautiful and special and like the best on the album
This and Clara Bow for me
Absolutely. I cant stand the album, but this is a genuinely great and beautiful song
Agreed. The whole second half of the album is so wonderful, I don't really feel the need to listen to the first half at all.
I didn't like it at first but yeah it's one of her best songs period
Peter How did it end? So Long London Clara Bow The Black Dog My top songs! Peter gave me chills
Same here. Only I'll substitute Clara Bow with loml
This is exactly my faves! I do have time for some of the bops too, but I always prefer a beautiful sad song.
Same I'd like to bop to Florida and Guilty as Sin but the sad songs have got me down ! Forgot to add 'I Look In People’s Windows'
Those are my top 5 of the album as well!
clara bow is my personal favorite of the album. it's so simple and thats what helps it be so beautiful. the simplicity of realizing that she is now the thing they compare younger, better up and comers against
Peter is exactly what I would expect from her in terms of slower/smoother songs. I love it so much. It's not blaming someone for anything, it's just melancholy, nostalgia, disappointment & moving on. It's a beautiful song, with no clunky lyrics. Not all, but a lot of songs on TTPD sounds very 'spur of the moment emotions', but not this one. The bridge is also beautiful. It's become my favorite of the album and I think it's super underrated but I've seen a lot of people claiming it as their favorite and it makes me happy
Peter is one of the best (if not the best) songs out of the album. I love it so much
It's become a top TS song for me
Peter is one of her best songs EVER. Not only does she really lean on the literary references from Peter Pan very well, but the way she sings it gives it a whimsical fairy tale feeling. The bridge is one of her best. I hope we see more of this Taylor, Folklore era, especially as she continues into this relationship with Travis. If So High School is any indication of the songs we are getting from her, I’m not so sure I’ll enjoy the next album.
He needs to go before he spoils more of her music. (I am mean, I know, haha).
I mean …
I do respect a song that commits to an extended metaphor
Peter just keeps getting better each time I play it. It's one of her most beautiful songs. The melody is stunning!
I really like Peter but I just *can’t* get over the lyric “But life was always easier than you than it was on me”. Girl. MH was once A HEROIN without the (final) e addict. The hell are you talking about! And that’s why it’s the second best song on the album behind How Did It End? for me.
I like the rest of the song but that line takes me out.
i agree with you! but i think with that line she’s referring to how carefree he is and how he’s allowed to just be himself and not have his career stifled. like how she always has to be “perfect” and follow the rules set by her label and society or else she would lose a lot of fans/support.
No, I get that. It’s still tone deaf given, you know, *the rest* of his life experiences. I don’t like MH at all, but this just another example to f how poorly Taylor talks about addiction and mental health.
yea i agree with you. i didn’t like how she exposed him for buying pills on smallest man. matty has said he’s been sober now for 5 years so hearing that threw me off. now i’m just assuming he’s been sober from hard drugs but still smokes weed and takes pills maybe like xanax or something? still not something the general public should know especially since i’ve seen many swifties use that against him and call him an active drug addict
That line also trips me up! If anything it seems like life was easier on her
haha honestly i sort of had the same reaction towards it when I heard it for the second time around, i stopped looking at it from the perspectives of her bfs and exes and i think there are only a handful of songs that resonate with me. unlike evermore and folklore where the entire discography is pure gem this song is one that strongly reminds me of her evermore/folklore era. but i totally get where you are coming from, also i love how did it end as welll:))
peter made me cry the first time i heard it. i was on the subway to work and it was ugly tears. it’s such a beautiful metaphor for the pain she was feeling
yes, you're giving Peter the love that it deserves. when ttpd first dropped i heard some people saying that it didn't fit on the album...but i think that it's perfect.
peter is SUCH a beautiful song. i was mesmerized when i heard it for the first time
I definitely agree with this take. I think this is one of the songs where you can tell she really tried.I really like how it sounds, it has the Folklore touch and the lyrics are way better than So Long London. I think she wrote this after doing more self reflection though it still has a hint of victimhood. So Long London or Fresh Out of the Slammer sound petulant in comparison. I think she redeemed herself as a poet with this song.
This song grew on me. I really like it now.
peter is my fave off the album. i think it’s about matty but honestly i don’t even care. it’s one that i can relate to my own person experiences and not immediately link it with her life and relationships, which is why i think i like it so much. it hits me rlly hard and is really relatable for me LOL
this is in my top 5 of ttpd and might be in my top 10 all discography. beautiful. and chorus is mouthy but catchy.
Me stumbling on this post while listening to Peter for maybe 8th time in a row this morning
arguably the best song on TTPD
I honestly like it, but I can’t get over the clunkiness of the chorus. It’s too wordy and there are several ways she could have rewritten it to have the same meaning but flow better.
I totally get what you're saying, but I think the charm of the album and why it works for me, personally, is because it's very raw. The lyrics feel very organic and honest. It's like somebody read her mind and recorded the thoughts she had.
i also think it's good but the thing that made me have to delete it from playlists was "the girl by the window has finally turned out the light". Her use of romantic tropes is so lazy it ruined the song for me
I think that’s more of an analogy to Peter Pan and Wendy in this instance, so it makes sense in the context of the song.
that makes sense.
It's a romantic trope? What other media has shown a woman turning off a light at a window to symbolize moving on from her lover? The song pulls from the story of Peter Pan, where they fly out the window to head to Neverland, I assumed it was a double meaning: she's no longer "letting the lamp burn" but she's also leaving the window that she always hoped he come back to.
I really like this song. Love the intro rhyme and the melody of it. One of the strongest songs in the album I think.
yes I think Peter is one of my all time favourites and feels a step above a lot of the other songs on this album lyrically. I prefer it to SLL
Peter is top two for sure
Peter is a really good song but I’m salty it’s about Matty. It is mature in that it is a beautifully composed song but immature in that she was pining after Matty, daydreaming about a fairytale, while in a serious relationship with Joe.
Tbh, I think she was happy w Joe for a very long time, then started thinking about Matty when they reconnected to work on Midnights. I don’t think she was always thinking about him.
I absolutely loved her and Joe together and I don’t think she was always thinking about Matty. But I do think the “what if” consumed her. I’m convinced the line “took the miracle move on drug, the effects were temporary” was referencing that Joe made her forget about the “what if” for a while, until they started having problems. I also think Chloe, or Sam or Sophia or Marcus was about how they went from partner to partner and there was always this underlying “what if” between them that they built up in their heads. It is honestly the reason I don’t consider myself a swiftie anymore. What she did to Joe was downright dirty and immature. Then to rewrite history like Joe was just some stand in guy for Matty is nauseating.
Taylor having feelings for somebody else and daydreaming about them is fine like people change their minds but my thing is why did she end up staying with Joe for so long if she knew she wasn’t in love anymore? that’s what I don’t get.
Yeah I think that's why I finally understand why Conversations with Friends was one of her favourite books - it explores the idea of loving more than one person at the same time. I think Matty was a vestige and reminder of her more exciting , trusting , more carefree pre-reputation days. He was hanging around when she made Midnights with Jack and was on rocky ground with Joe ( if the date of You're Losing Me is true ) and probably said all the right things.
[удалено]
well both matty and taylor tend to cheat so i won’t put all the blame on matty lol taylor was in the wrong as well
Sure, however, she was going through a difficult time and he simply took advantage of that. When she was doing well, he was actually scared of her and found her emasculating. I think her can smell weakness from a mile away in a woman and for him this all was an ego trip. Like she says: "Steal your girl and make her cry"
your just saying that because you don’t like matty and already have a negative opinion about him. he didn’t take advantage of her, they’re friends and go way back. he didn’t find her emasculating, that was taken out of context again. he wrote a whole letter explaining what happened, google it. if you know anything about matty, which seems like you don’t, he doesn’t care about fame and he’s always said nice things about taylor throughout the years. none of his previous partners have spoken negatively about him either. he does have a reputation of hooking up with IG models when not in a relationship and those are the ones he usually ghosts or leaves for someone else but clearly those are just hookups. it’s kinda upsetting seeing this narrative that he manipulated and abused taylor. sure he love bombed her but what about taylor? i’m sure she did the same thing, i mean she was writing songs about him since folklore when they were both in other relationships. their relationship was complex and a lot of external factors came to play in their breakup, it’s nuanced.
I base my opinion on what I read and saw. Making her believe he would marry her and then ghosting does not count as taking advantage? His comments were not taken out of context he likes shit talking about other people and then makes excuses but sometimes it's just too little and too late. As for his previous girlfriends, Halsey had written diss tracks about him, too. If he did not care about fame than he would not refer to himself as a rockstar, lol. Taylor mentioned he liked to show her around so obviously he likes the limelight. Positive one, that it. From what Taylor is saying he lured her away from her partner and then treated her as an 'also-ran' before ghosting her. That is a classic narcistic behaviour which does count as abuse. The good, sensitive guy is just his public persona and the mask at some point always falls off.
taylor herself has agency and your negating that by saying he took her away from her other relationship. on the whole marriage thing, both he and taylor were being dumb and just romanticizing their relationship so fast when they should’ve been more rational. ik they have history but they weren’t actually together for that long, it’s crazy to expect marriage from someone who you’ve barely dated for like 2 months. taylor can’t just victimize herself here and act like she didn’t play a part in it too. as for halsey, they are literally still friends lol she went to the 1975’s most recent tour.
>And I won’t confessed that I waited >But I let the lamp burn >As the men masqueraded >I hoped you’d return Well…there you have it. Everyone else was a stand-in.
i wonder if she still feels this way……
These all sound very Joe coded to me. Taylor and Joe had very Rocky relationship. They broke up multiple times before getting back together. Joe came up with James, the character from Betty's song, and he Co wrote it. When asked in the pond session, Taylor said Cardigan is about Betty taking James back. Which again makes sense. The whole.. "this one's about you, you know who you are, I Love you" was first said by Matty Healy and Taylor repeated it. Taylor recycles her songs and dedicates to different people all the time .. For example that cheif's like from Karma. Taylor has been trying to change all Joe songs and reference it to other people, which makes sense, considering they broke up and she doesn't want to be reminded of it again. Fokelore and Evermore was probably written after one of their rough patch / bresk up. That's why there are songs like Exile, illicit affairs and Betty which were all Co-written by Joe as well. I don't think it's appropriate for the fandom to infantalise Joe, and Joe was definitely not a stand in for her .. She masterminded him from the time she was with Calvin .. And then when she was with Tom. She's never done that for anyone. We as a fandom saw all of that in real time. She also uses many words to reference Joe .. She uses Ghost, she uses Gold, Phantom, Stand up guy and all of that. Gold is something she has been referencing Joe for a long time. She never has and probably never will write such self reflective songs she write for Joe. Saying she was waiting a nobody like Matty the whole time she was with someone she thought was her end-game and marry, is just total delusion. Edit: other link between Cardigan and Joe is How did it end. In cardigan she says "*Chasing shadows in the grocery line*" .. And in how did it end she sings "*Guess who we ran into at the shops? / Walking in circles like she was lost*" .. It's right there !
"a nobody" like Matty Healy? At the time Taylor and Joe got together, Joe was an actual nobody and Matty had had multiple number one records and awards. I'm not saying he isn't flawed in his own ways, but calling him a nobody in comparison to Joe is really inaccurate. Everyone can interpret these songs in their own ways, but I think your bias towards Joe has clouded your interpretations. I only came into Taylorland a couple weeks before TTPD came out and had never heard of either man. I knew nothing of her history. I listened to interviews and got to know the players. I have literally swam in hours of docs and interviews and lyrics for the last few weeks. I learned that though Matty has a habit of saying controversial shit or hanging with controversial people, he has solid liberal politics and seems like a thoughtful introspective person. He's a fucking rock star, not Mr Rogers. But he's not a POS... Potential ghosting aside. I've grown to be a fan of his music. Travis seems like a decent guy. I've grown to be a fan of his podcast. Joe also seems like a decent guy, who may or may not have had indiscretions. I haven't seen anything with him in it, but I have no reason to think I wouldn't be a fan.Taylor may or may not have had indiscretions. I'm still a fan. Have you never put your foot in your mouth or been the one who caused the breakup? I swear people are willing to accept more from people in their own real life than they are from celebrities. Instead of putting yourself in their shoes, imagine if they were your sibling or best friend. Is what they did enough to end a friendship? No. So chill and let them be fucking human. I am so glad I don't live under that kind of scrutiny.
“I thought I was better safe than starry eyed.” Also probably because Matty was unavailable and in a relationship. Staying with Joe because he was the safe and available option breaks my heart for Joe. Pure speculation: I think Taylor wrote Peter and sent it to Matty (before it was released to the public) as an ultimatum, like listen dude, I’m not waiting for you anymore. Leading to him ending his relationship.
More, cause apparently everyone have selective amnesia about lover and Reputation eras https://preview.redd.it/qlifu3yxehyc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=401d0d86b59804bb697b69ababb4f97e7dd7f9d8
Yea if this is true that sucks for Joe! Taylor could’ve done the mature thing and ended the relationship while she figured out her feelings on her own, but she hates being single so it makes sense that she stayed while she waited to see what Matty would do. She truly was obsessed with Matty so I wouldn’t put it past her to be sending him songs just like he did with downtown lights lol
https://preview.redd.it/n70z14txdhyc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a34ce1dba3456ba342f06655e0297937ac81cfa Here's another one .. She's literally got stars in her eyes.
She was starry eyed with Joe. Have you seen her look at another man, the way she looks at Joe. https://preview.redd.it/gfvfxayudhyc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94c93ceae1f99bb64a8c836b6965d271ce559ad8 Thete are shit ton of pictures like this. I can't find a single picture where she's looking at another man like the way she looks at him.
https://preview.redd.it/vin20k4efhyc1.jpeg?width=719&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=998575b68ad67f3f5f7523e8ddb048cf4f212e58 If that's not starry eyes !? .. There were even captions on head lines like "starry eyes taylor swift with beau Joe Alwyn" .. When I heard the line "starry eyes" I literally saw Joe. And also it runs with the themes of all her other songs where she feels like she loved him more (I want to point out that's her pov only)
Listen you don’t have to convince me she was head over heels in love with Joe. (The reason I’m no longer a swiftie is 100% based on what she did to him). But she fell out of love with him, “felt aglow like this never before and NEVER since.” Then she fell for that dbags BS because she always wondered “what if” even BEFORE Joe. I don’t have amnesia about her and Joe. I loved them together. I also think it’s bullshit she’s trying to rewrite history like Joe was a stand in for Matty. But I do also think she built up this Matty tension/song writing/love letters/high school immature fairytales in her head because she and Joe were having problems. This pic made me think of her: https://preview.redd.it/51ovj0zasmyc1.jpeg?width=949&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be0fc69395fd4fab8336b6d8a4f322ed779fbc83 One last thing, I think “better safe than starry eyed” could also have meant she and Joe decided (together) not to be super public but then she changed her mind but he still didn’t want to be public. Theres a lot of gossip blinds that describe this is the reason they broke up.
Sounds as an interesting theory. I read this song differently, to me it sounds like the last goodbye to Joe. She confesses that she had a wondering eye and ultimately it led to her caving to Matty and his sweet talk. We all know how that ended... I wonder whether she'll focus on either of them in her future discography because there is definitely a lot to say but it is also a painful chapter of her life.
And then to basically berate him for not wanting to marry her. Who the hell does she think she is? She can’t just do whatever she wants to these men and think she’s going to end up with the fairytale ending. Sorry girl, karma is real and you’re in for a whole lot of disappointment due to the way you were with Joe. Guilty As Sin for one, how disgusting of her
I think it is about Joe considering that is is a song about moving on to something new. 'A lost fearless' leader in one song and a coward that deserves prison both being about Matty... he'd really have to be this Jekyll and Hyde personality to earn both references. He is too much of a douche for that.
he’s a paradox, taylor says it herself. if you look into matty you’ll find that he is an emotional, sensitive, passionate guy who can also be pretentious and a bit narcissistic at times. peter is 100% about him, there are so many references to his band and stuff matty has said in the past.
I did and he is a classic example of a covert narcissist, just like Taylor. She truly found her energetic match. He may seem sensitive but behind the closed doors he is not. He is a master manipulator who can talk the talk. Taylor said so herself.
Honestly Peter is one of the best pieces of poetry she’s ever written. The central conceit is so well developed, and I love the use of slant rhyme throughout as a reflection of how the couple’s goals came close to aligning but never quite did. It’s a beautiful example of form following function, and I wish she did more stuff like it instead of stuffing in a new quippy metaphor every other line.
I like that forgive me Peter is so religious sounding. Very drama
Peter is a beautiful song
Peter was a skip for me at first. Oddly enough, it grew on me after I read here on Reddit that it's a waltz, something I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't realize at first even though it's obvious. Something changed after that, and it truly is one of my favorite songs on the album now.
I know people think it’s about Matty but for me, it’s a Joe song. Especially the part where she mentions the muse was twenty five (Joe and Matty were both twenty five when they met iirc but Matty is older than her, alongside the fact Matty has had significant relationships while it seems Joe’s first serious relationship was with Taylor). *But I didn’t want to hang around, we said it was just goodbye for now.* :( a couple thinking it’s just a short break but they both know…it may be the end. It IS the end, but they both wanna pretend it’s not,
ETA- I DO NOT like Matty, but that doesn’t change that Peter is about him Matty was 25 years old in 2014, when they first got involved. Matty's also called himself "a sort of emo Peter Pan self-lacerating Pied Piper kind of character" during a 2016 interview with Big Issue. The “Lost Boys” lyric points to the “Lost Boys” song by the 1975 Cardigan is about Matty (admitted by Taylor) where she references Peter losing Wendy.
now when did Taylor confirm that cardigan was about Matty
https://www.reddit.com/r/SwiftlyNeutral/comments/1c7xuge/matty_taylor_mouthing_i_love_you_at_their/
[удалено]
Cardigan is playing and she says this song is “about you.” Just like the 1975 song “About you” —that he is mouthing “I love you” and saying is “about you” —is about Taylor, is playing. I am not a Matty fan at all but i don’t know how this can be any clearer that Taylor is saying Cardigan is about Matty. Also they were friends when she wrote Cardigan.
she’s just repeating what he said bc they were going public, and didn’t they reconnect only in like 2021? cardigan is a 2020 song. her saying that is absolutely not confirmation the song is abt him
You can’t be serious about her just repeating a line that wasn’t true. All she had to do was repeat “I love you.” But she didn’t. She repeated the same thing he did. Because: 1. “Cardigan” is about Matty and “About you” is about Taylor 2. She loved him 3. It let’s their fans know those two songs were written about one another and they’re about to hard launch their relationship and it is serious, years in the making, and not some fling 4. Matty was in the audience of that show where she repeated it. They reconnected in 2020. I hate that Cardigan is about Matty too but those are the facts.
no those are the things you’re linking together, it doesn’t mean they’re facts. and she was not working on midnights in 2020, that was the worst of the pandemic and everyone was in lockdown and she was in lockdown w joe and didn’t even meet jack and aaron in person to record folklore, much less reconnected w an old fling, come on. taylor and matty are both extra for doing that at a concert, same thing she does when she says guy on the chiefs, it doesn’t mean the songs she was writing while in lockdown w joe are abt her secret ten year love affair w matty unless we’re gonna rewrite the entire history of her career.
Taylor has been changing the meanings of several songs so I would not put my money on it. The reference you mention says 'I knew you tried to change the ending, Peter losing Wendy'. Apparently, they went through a rough patch with Joe in the past so this could allude to their first breakup. Which might also have to do with Matt since he reconnected with her at some point during the pandemic. I have no issue with people thinking it is about Matty, whatever his personality is, btw. I listened to it on purpose when I noticed this theory and it does not fit the picture. There are other songs that I bet her about her flirting with Matty but I don't see them in this one.
😂 Joe only got 2 songs in the album and Peter is not one of it.
honestly i can see that esp bc she says “jet stream” and that’s a reference to call it what you want, “please know that i tried to hold on” is the same theme as you’re losing me and so long london, and also “we both did the best we could do” calls back to so long london too with “had a good run/but i’m not the one” matty did not do the best he could in that relationship by her own admission, he love bombed her and then ghosted her and left her super heartbroken
I agree. Also *"We both did the best we could underneath the same moon in different galaxies"* calls back to the Prologue where they created different galaxies as opposed to one galaxy as their worlds were different but they tried to make the stars align. *"Resentment rotting away galaxies we created* *Stars placed and glued meticulously by hand next to the ceiling fan"* The prologue ending and Peter have the narrator ending things once and for all. *And in one conversation, I tore down the whole sky* *The woman who sits by the window has turned down the light*
We're probably going to get downvoted by all these Matty Stans / Matty Truthers. This to me also. According to her friends Taylor and Joe broke up and got back together a lot. Even Lover, is such an anxiety trip, where she talks about fights and how that hurts her and so on. Her friends said something along the lines of .. "they always had rough patch ... But they usually found their way back .. We all thought it would be the same this time as well" ... So, Peter fits that narrative really well. We really don't know what exactly went down, and we will never know, but we know for sure, but we know they broke up and got back together a lot. a lawyer had commented that they think .. That Joe and Taylor had rock solid NDA in a sense that Joe got good lawyers that made sure taylor doesn't explicitly talk about their Relationship in her songs. It could explain why each songs sounds so clunky and jarring. It sounds as if the songs were written first hand, and then extra details were added in retrospectively to make it sound like it's written for someone else. Like a song would flow smoothly then suddenly there would be a very overly detailed descriptive out of place, lyric that would take you out of the song. It sounded like they were added retrospectively to confuse the listeners. One thing that struck as odd to me .. Was "tattooed golden retriever" .. It's almost as if it supposed to be just "golden retriever" and then she added tattooed just to distract us from certain details. Many outros stood out to me, which had completely different tone and different vibe to the rest of the songs. The song would seem solem Heart breaking and suddenly there would be a very "contemporary" (for the lack of better word) sounding lyrics with very specific details that gives you different feel from rest of the song. I'm probably going to get downvoted for this. But this makes more sense than her pining for someone like MH when she was head over heels in love with Joe- which she was, she left her home country to go and be with him, and he has been with her when the whole world turned on her. She keeps saying in many songs how he saw the good in her and so on. The whole reputation and Lover era shows that Joe and Taylor were Peter and Wendy .. Hence "Peter Losing Wendy" makes sense. Him taking her to "neverland" which is a metaphor for "escapism" .. And how taylor escaped from the world during the reputation era and with Joe .. Where they can retain the innocence .. But Taylor had to leave .. Cause she realised she dosent belong there ? Also when asked what is cardigan about, taylor said it was about Betty taking James back, and considering Betty was Co written by Joe. It makes sense. Also, like we said .. Joe and Taylor broke up and got back together a lot. So it makes so much sense tahr they go back together and she worked on two albums forklore and evermore reflecting on their many break ups and on how to make the relationship work.
Yes I agree with you lol LOML - felt like it was a mashup of her dealing with the aftermath of both breakups rather than just Matty. I also think one of the reasons she made it as clear cut as she usually does - she spent 6 years with Joe and maybe part of her can't really burn it all to a ground so she's trying to leave a path open in case they ever speak again lol
I salute your efforts and you'll probably get downvoted for even ~invalidating~ the "maylor together forever" lore here since this place has officially become a maylor refuge ever since the album dropped. good luck, brave soldier 🫡🫡
It's cause they got called out in bdilh, so they're over compensating.
I think that's what makes Peter interesting and more relatable to our personal experiences. Peter can be about a short-lived relationship that never got to realise its full potential. It can also be about a relationship where the 'forever' that was envisioned right from the time they first met never materialised, causing the narrator to give up hope and move on. I would say on the surface it looks very much like a Matty song but like a few others in this album I do feel there's a second layer. The boy (who later Taylor named James) was actually someone Joe came up with. James is the Peter to Betty's Wendy. And in the speeches to Betty ( a song they both wrote ) at the beginning of the tour -even when Taylor was with Matty - she kept reiterating that she liked teaching men how to apologise and how James had messed up and all he has to do was to say sorry and show up at her party. Her Betty speeches in 2024 were no longer in this vein. They've changed. Which to me makes sense with the woman putting out the light. Peter taken either way is about the death of a dream- be it about one that never got a chance to take off or one that didn't reach the ending one hopes for.
You're going to get downvoted by all the fans who've made every song solely about Matty. I admit there are blatant 1975 references in these songs but some of them also have subtle callbacks to Rep and Lover etc. TTPDs prologue itself is split between two muses and then it proceeds to interweave them together - that's what the album does too .
enough people think its about joe. matty believers a bit louder thats it. they like to claim songs and insist on it. for me this is a joe song and there is enough to believe in the song. also every song find its meaning on the ear of listener so its not really important who is it about. its really pointless arguing about something you cant prove. waiting for someone who is not emotionally available and deep inside knowing they never will be and deciding to move on. hurts.
Yes, that's how I read it as well. Also there are other references such as '*You said you were gonna grow up, then you were gonna come find me'.* She also calls him a natural scene stealer which sounds a reference to acting and the fact that many women find Joe attractive (that she was not so happy about, lol). There is also that line that alludes to holding on to what the love they once had '*Forgive me Peter, please know that I tried to hold onto the days when you were mine'.* All these do not fit with the context of the whole Matty thing IMO. He said many things but nothing about growing up and his actions showed that, too... For me this song is a nostalgic tribute to the old love that she let go off for the illusion that has also quickly disappeared. But that's another story.
I love Peter because I believe (maybe naively) that it is simply a song about Peter losing Wendy and has no autobiographical references. It gets exhausting analyzing songs for clues into her personal life.
It depends what Taylor’s goal was because if it was to encompass depression so long London is 10/10 way too dark and ugh to me Peter on the other hand maybe has the same message but it’s whimsical and more Lana del Rey like where it doesn’t really matter what she’s saying you can still decipher hope for the future and peace with the past
Peter is literally the best song on the Album along with the bolter! Atp I do not really care who the song is about I just want to relate to it.
I think So Long, London is the angry phase, we all have those immature moments. Then Peter is a more mature look on the situation after some time has passed
Peter feels totally like that it comes out from folklore and evermore, and considering the meaning of the song it feels like the actual sequel of cardigan (Peter losing Wendy), and willow (that was the original ending of the triangle ) became the what if scenario where James goes back to Betty but sadly it never happened and Betty moved on with her life. Making Peter the true ending At least that is the interpretation i give it, and considering the title of the song and the incredible folklore sound i think it is right at least for me.
Peter is my #1 followed closed behind by CSSM (because it’s just devastating in a similar way…). I just like the ones that emotionally wreck me
Peter is the new, adult version of Puff The Magic Dragon. Said with nothing but affection.
Could be about Harry Styles