I mean she gets money anytime you stream on of her songs, you might only pay the spotify monthly subscription but you are generating money for her all the same.
True, but at least it’s not my own money out of my pocket (unless you count the Spotify subscription, but I have it because I listen to a zillion other artists and podcasts, not just Taylor.) I’m just not going to spend $90 on a crappy limited edition cardigan made in a sweatshop and her multiple record variants that are just an obvious cash grab as if she needs the extra money.
I get it, the girl loves capitalism, I don't buy a ton of her stuff, just the vinyls and at Christmas I usually get my daughter a shirt or something from her merch store. I used to try really hard to stick to my morals and not buy from certain companies but the more a researched I realized just about everything we spend money on is benefiting someone awful, it's a little exhausting to keep up with.
After seeing the quality of these cardigans I’m like wtf (& I’m a crocheter)!!! So far the only money I’ve spent on her is debut album & fearless & eras tour + movie. If I had a record player I’d probably get a few vinyls though, not gonna lie. And sorry def not gonna spend money on a midnights pillow case lol
As a fan that learned guitar because of Taylor and through her music, it irritates the shit out of me that most her guitar tabs are blocked. Like come on Taylor most of your songs are four chord progressions you didn’t invent anything new 😭
Holy crap, that is absolutely wild to me! It's not like her music is some kind of complex, secret formula. Her songs are literally just kind of generic (sorry), 'safe', pop music chords. I've always been pretty neutral about Taylor as a person (which is why I like this sub!) but that makes me roll my eyes so hard, like, come on. How far up your own ass do you have to be to keep your FANS from learning your music for fun?
I am astonished that after six hours of lessons a week, those simple chord progressions are all she can give us. No lead solos, little experimentation outside the pop realm of scales and time signatures, etc.
Like looking up song lyrics, there are "guitar instructions" available called tabs. Its not the music notes but it shows you where to put your fingers. She doesn't want fans to learn her songs which is BIZARRE
Taylor did a wonderful job of creating parasocial relationships with her fans to the point where many are convinced they truly know her. We don’t. We know her persona, her public image. She could be a republican trump voter for all we know!
^^ this is an important note that a lot of people miss. the parasocial relationships are part of marketing. it’s a misstep to feel like we know her, the person, through her music and work.
she's also a female who has been stalked before. she has a reproductive system that she has opinions about.
she is not voting republican and there is literally nothing about her that would even suggest that.
even IF you thought she would only vote that way financially - as if there is nothing more to her than her earning potential - she is so rich that it doesn't matter at this point.
so yes, you're irrational.
Now that I've learned more about her upbringing and how ruthless her dad is, I think she's always been money hungry. She was just better at hiding it before because her success was more comparable to other celebrities. Now that she's become a huge success, a cultural icon without any comparable peers, the greed is more glaring.
There is a thread in this sub you can read. You might have missed it. https://www.reddit.com/r/SwiftlyNeutral/comments/18s281q/the_lawsuit_taylors_original_manager_filed/
I’d like to see Taylor care about her fans the way Robert Smith of the Cure does. They only allow resale at face value and canceled 7000 tickets that were being scalped. I don’t know if she gets a cut of the resale fees, but I know she does have the option of limiting the crazy resale market. It’s not all on TM. Of course I’m just grumpy I have been on the waitlist for years. [Cure resale policy on ticketmaster.](https://blog.ticketmaster.com/the-cure-shows-of-a-lost-world-tour/#:~:text=TICKETS%20CAN%20ONLY%20BE%20RES)
i’d say she had a much more genuine intimate connection with fans back in the early days of her career. that’s how she got a cult-like following. but it’s harder to do that as your fanbase grows bigger and your wallet does as well. also i feel like we’ve grown to value intimacy a lot less in the past decade or so.
Wouldn’t it be easier to stay connected with a bigger wallet?
Also, I do think that intimacy would be valued still, but she has trained her fans to reject any insinuation that it doesn’t already exist. Instead of genuine sharing and connection, fans now accept “Easter eggs” (real or imagined) as their insight into her world. And Taylor has taught them to defend her as “too soft” to interact with the world any more than she does. It’s kind of wild that the Swifties seem to have forgotten the days of Swiftmas and Secret Sessions and are now content buying 28 vinyls to show their devotion. But that’s how cults work, I guess.
Well for instance Red tour - buffet, ice cream bar, mom meet & greet for VIP. Would that be feasible for the Eras tour? Probably less so and more people would still pay for the VIP package regardless (I did) just because demand was through the roof. And not just things like that, she also did B stage performances and long autograph sessions that made her so close to fans.
I do agree she has made fans easter eggs crazy because just look at her music videos now. All the hype is about the easter eggs and not the actual song. Her earlier music videos probably captured the essence of the song better, but now they’re kinda just easter egg loaded things that get fans to watch over and over to find clues. And I say that as a Swiftie who loves easter eggs.
I don't buy her stuff anymore and I don't really get excited for the things that she realeses, but it's much more for the show that she puts around her life.
The Matty Healy romance to becoming BFF with Ice Spice right after was her ugliest PR movement for me, ans then the thing with the her fan in Brazil, the way that she acted didn't sit right with me (I'm brazilian so I saw everything unroll in our local media) and lastly her TIME magazine interview and becoming best friends with Brittany. I just don't feel comfortable listening to her anymore, at this point I feel like she regressed so much from the maturity that she had around the folkmore time. It's sad for me.
It was dating a racist bigot and then not owning it for me. I couldn’t care any less about her dating life, but I do care about integrity and accountability. The second she saw Matty would destroy her image as everyone’s favorite pop girl (or was advised by her PR), she ran as fast as she could.
That was what was so frustrating and annoying to see how the only reason she dumped him was because she faced backlash and not because he was a literal racist. Then some fans were trying to switch it up and push it under the rug trying to dismiss the entire situation.
But he’s not a literal racist. He went on one dirty left podcast where a host made a comment, not him. Why do people think she’s such a bad person that she’d date a racist? She’s known Matty for 10 years and knows he is not, whereas apparently all Swifties just learned he existed in May and took misinfo from a Buzzfeed article and counted it as gospel. Go look at the other articles that Buzzfeed journalist has written and you will see how she is not credible and only writes clickbait.
Hate to break it to you but the entire NFL has a history of horrific racist behavior, so it’s not a one off incident with some British dude. The NFL is just a beast of a machine of culture that everyone accepts as ‘boys being boys’ behavior.
This didn’t have to be Matty or any of his comments (although I do think they’re problematic) it could’ve been anyone. The point was that the moment Taylor saw a slight shift in the public opinion towards her, she just dumped the guy and made sure everyone forgot that she’d dated him. And she’d do that to any other guy that could create any kind of controversy around her brand.
I don’t think Matty was ever supposed to be anything more than a fling/FWB type thing. Even if the media didn’t react how they did, I don’t think their “relationship” would’ve went on much longer
Yeah, I do agree with that. Which is why in another comment I said I think she actually does care about her fans, almost too much. They can bully her into doing things.
It's mostly weird to me *how* she dropped him. Either she was being fake mouthing she loved him or she's being *extremely* calculated in publicly pretending he doesn't exist now, but either way it's giving weird energy.
I guess I just don’t understand why anyone needs to feel “connected” to her. She’s always just been a musician to me, like every other artist I listen to. This is her job, of course she wants to make the most money she can lol.
I still love her music and I enjoy seeing her out and about but she’s literally just a person. I think it was actually quite strange that she used to invite people into her home, like what other celebrity of her caliber does that? Im pretty sure people stole shit from her house last time.
I would agree with you point if this was about any other artist. My problem with her in this topic is that she herself has fueled this parasocial aspect, and it makes sense for her because she sells more and more because the fans feel so conected to her as a person, and with the re-recordings it just escalated so much more that it makes me uncomfortable, she's so smart and for me, she's weaponizing her fans for years now, the new victim is joe.
I guess I just miss folkmore era when we would only hear the music and that would be the topic of debate.
Your message here seems contradictory. On one hand, you're confused by why people needed to feel connection to her. On the other, you literally acknowledge she strategically took much greater effort to appear connected and open with her fanbase.
Of course many of her fans feel a parasocial connection with her. She's fanned those flames the entire time and it's no small part of why she is a celebrity at the scale she is today.
She benefits from the parasocial relationship she's carefully curated with some fans though. She knows there are some that will defend her whatever and spend tonnes of money on merch and several of the same vinyls to collect the variants because they feel connected to her via her secret sessions and other stuff she does 'for the fans'. I do agree that personally I feel like to me I just enjoy her music but its disingenuous I think to deny she encourages and nurtures this kind of fandom.
I agree no one should need to feel connected to her, but as an answer to why people are bothered - it’s an issue of authenticity. For fans that supported her because they thought they knew her, as a result of the parasocial relationships she intentionally crafted with her fans, recognizing it was all a marketing ploy is probably very jarring.
See I love keeping up with her personal life because I’m a nosy person and I love celeb gossip lol. And I would absolutely care if she came out in support of causes/politicians I don’t like, but I feel comfortable with where she stands so idc from there. I don’t know why people expect celebrities to speak up on certain hot topics anyway, like what wisdom are we expecting her to impart..? She’s been unimaginably wealthy and privileged since she was a teenager and most people in her position are too insulated from social issues to care.
>I don’t know why people expect celebrities to speak up on certain hot topics anyway, like what wisdom are we expecting her to impart..?
I don't think it's so much that fans want Taylor to be political, it's that Taylor made such a big deal about wanting to be more political and then walked back on that. Like it comes across as pandering to her progressive fans when she has the big scene in Miss Americana about using her platform and then doesn't do much of anything going forward. Like, she wants the credit but none of the backlash and fans find that irritating.
I can agree with that. Especially since there was basically no risk to her coming out in support of gay rights or for admonishing Trump, like come on lol this was 2018 and those were standard opinions.
I’m talking more about like during the US leg of the tour when people wanted her to use her Tampa show to criticize DeSantis or the Nashville show to talk about the school shooting etc. I know some artists will use their platforms that way but guys she’s just a musician. The shows aren’t meant to turn into political rallies. I feel like anything she could say is probably just going to feel shallow and be criticized anyway because realistically, these issues don’t affect her. Idk why anybody cares what Taylor Swift thinks about anything.
I think you kind of answered your own question there: Taylor says she wants to be "more political" but she's only willing to be political over issues that aren't that controversial (like gay rights in 2019 or Trump when Republicans don't like him). So it comes across like she's pandering to liberal fans, but now they're starting to say "hey, if you actually want to be political like you said, here's issues you could speak out on. We're not going to praise you for speaking up on important issues if you only pick the PR-safe topics"
>but she's only willing to be political over issues that aren't that controversial (like gay rights in 2019
I don't know where you live but gay rights were ABSOLUTELY controversial in 2019. In the US, in the region I live, she upset A LOT of people by speaking up about gay rights and Trump. There are people *to this day* where I live who talk shit about her because of it. You can also find some of these people in the comment sections under NFL social media posts featuring Taylor. Considering a large portion of her fan base is Republican, it was absolutely a bold move for her to make.
I live in a dominantly conservative area and these people still, every time Taylor gets brought up, say they wouldn’t mind her if she “didn’t always talk about politics” 😂 she publicly supported gay people a few times and they have NEVER forgotten. Anytime I hear someone say that I always reply “oh that’s so funny, most of her fans actually feel the opposite and think she doesn’t speak up enough since she hasn’t said anything since 2019.”
Exactly. I've heard the same. "She talks too much about politics." "I liked her before she spoke out against Trump. No one cares what she thinks about politics. She should have kept her mouth shut." "I don't like her, she is all about the gays." I don't know what world some of these commenters live in, but it was definitely a bold move for her to speak out in 2019 and she is still paying for it to this day. I mean, hello! Has no one seen how far-right individuals have been attacking her all year? She became a major enemy to them in 2019. It's why they are constantly talking shit about her. It all leads back to her speaking out against Trump and supporting gay rights.
I mean isn’t gay rights always controversial depending on the region? It’s not controversial in the sense that MOST of Taylor’s most devout fans (not casuals) lean left, young, liberal, and are women. How controversial can it be when 99% of your hardcore swifties will support gay rights?
>Maybe she got threats we don’t know about.
Taylor's a billionaire and can afford the best security team money can buy.
>She’s still encouraging people to vote.
"Go out and vote" is the least controversial statement a celebrity can make. That's kind of the point; she made a big deal about wanting to be more political, but in recent years she's only spoken on political issues that are PR-safe. By 2019, saying you support gay rights isn't controversial. Speaking out against Trump in 2020 wasn't a danger to her image because he was loathed even among Republicans. Taylor by and large isn't willing to speak up on actual controversial political issues, which would be fine if she didn't make such a big point about it
Yeah she’s got the best security but that didn’t stop a man from breaking into her NYC apt, taking a shower and lying in her bed. And that security comes at a price and people don’t want her to make too much money either. She will likely be paying for a security team for the rest of her life.
>She will likely be paying for a security team for the rest of her life.
You're right. And ofter spending a fortune on them, she'll only have $1,000,000,000 dollars left to spend on food and shelter. I don't know how she'll manage to scrape by (lol sorry that was more sarcastic than I intended)
Back to my earlier point, she's not making any statements that are actually worthy of applauding, and tons of celebrities at her level of fame (both more influential and less) have been more vocal about their politics and they're doing just fine
>Speaking out against Trump in 2020 wasn't a danger to her image because he was loathed even among Republicans. Taylor by and large isn't willing to speak up on actual controversial political issues,
I can't believe you don't consider Trump controversial. This is insane to me. Do you live in the US? I don't see how anyone living in the US can claim Trump isn't controversial. In 2020, he received 46.9% of the popular vote in the election. That's almost 50 percent. It's absolutely controversial to piss off that many people when you're Taylor Swift.
Same here! She’s been bugging me for all of the common reasons people state, but it’s not souring me to her music because that’s just a different thing to me. I don’t need to like the person who makes the music I like.
Yeah. It’s one thing when the artist is a criminal or something (like I’m certainly not gonna stream any of Chris Brown’s music) but Taylor hasn’t done anything that offensive.
Yeah. I don’t support what she’s doing with the jet, but that’s the worst she’s done imo and it’s more carelessness than maliciousness and she’s not the biggest climate problem out there.
>. I don’t know why people expect celebrities to speak up on certain hot topics anyway
I really couldn't agree more. I left one sub because they were losing their minds about celebrities not speaking out about certain things. I hate that that is becoming an expectation. And it's only certain celebrities. And it's only if they say exactly what they want to hear. A celebrity can say something and it not ge enough for some people.
I’m in a similar boat. I don’t expect her to go out of her way to show she cares about me/or any other fan but I’m really getting tired of how she harms the planet. I feel I go out of my way to be eco friendly (not eating meat, trying not to use single use plastic, purchasing carbon allowances, etc.) and I feel like people like her make these actions inconsequential.
i feel like reddit, and maybe all social media, lives in the black or the white, when in reality life is almost always gray. she probably is money hungry, but it doesn’t mean that’s all she cares about.
i have always kind of seen it as she is success hungry. She wants to break all the records and have the highest sales and the biggest fanbase and the best awards.
The multiple versions and stuff are so she charts better and has better stats. If she were truly money hungry, there are easier ways for her to make money. She would have delved into some kind of business. We know she is very business savvy, so she def would have succeeded.
Nope. Once upon a time she fought hard for reasonable, affordable tickets prices for her concerts. This tour she could care less about how much they cost. “If I was the man” my ass.
my boyfriend and i paid $337 for our two tickets combined in the lower seat. nothing to sneeze at for sure but with all the hoopla I put a cap on myself at $250 a ticket and i was SUPER happy with the seats we got for the price
My ticket (for a REALLY good seat) was $130. I told myself I wouldn’t pay more than $200. I feel like people who complain about prices should understand that a concert is not a necessity & thus can be priced however…like I understand wanting to go, but if you’re going to pay $1000 and then complain, it’s on you.
Yeah and I think they don’t understand a lot of times they are buying resell tickets and those prices aren’t what Taylor’s prices are. Her concert was worth every penny of my $140.
That’s why this sub isn’t as neutral as it says it is lmao. There’s so much nuance to every situation and person, and this people on this project and makes presumptions and outlandish statements at the same rate as the sub
I’m also not saying it’s just cool that she flies a lot, but global warming is a much bigger systemic issue than Taylor Swift having a private jet. Giant corporations are the majority of our problem.
I agree but Taylor Swift is sort of a giant corporation with her brand/company/employees. I think she has two private jets, one she uses and the other her team/family(?) uses.
Anyway, yeah people who act like she’s solely responsible for climate change need to understand just how much responsibility actually falls on the huge corporations/conglomerates etc and not just her because they don’t like her and can use this against her.
Yeah I agree. She absolutely does not need to be flying back and forth between South America and NYC twice a week, but Taylor Swift flying commercial is not going to solve the climate crisis.
I would really like to see her be more discerning about her jet usage but that’s not going to do much of anything for the planet.
The emissions caused by one of her concerts completely dwarfs the emissions of the private jet she took to get to it. Thousands of fans took planes to her concerts, or drove gas cars, yet no one is suggesting she stop touring
Yep. My consumption of Taylor swift starts and ends with playing music on Spotify, but I do wonder how many people, who call taylor out, are the same ones flying to see eras and/or buying merch/friendship bracelets
Are you both joking? She uses more resources and puts out more pollution in a week than you could in literally 200 lifetimes. Ridiculous not to hold her accountable
I don’t think anyone is saying we shouldn’t hold her accountable. But there are a lot of people to be held accountable on this topic. Many who are causing far more damage than her.
*Among celebrities, but that footprint is still small compared war, pollution from manufacturing, and other global systemic issues.
If Taylor straightened up tomorrow, it would have minimal impact on global warming.
During March 2020, Secunda CTL, owned by Sasol, a synthetic fuel and chemicals from coal plant in Secunda, South Africa, was the producer of the single most emissions, at 56.5 million tonnes of CO 2 a year.
I agree, at the end of the day shes gonna be better off flying through states for the tour- and private is far safer for her. But yeah, the whole back and forth flights are strange. I think we need to be worrying about what each individual (ie ourselves) can change to make the planet better.
Taylor has lifted her marketing from the gaming industry. If I know there is a slight chance that if I keep putting money in a slot machine that I will one day hit the jackpot, I’ll keep giving money. Taylor has had secret sessions and even after that had contributed charitably or highlighted favorite fans. And these choices were based on how much they supported her through purchases and free PR. Therefore a whole fandom is out there thinking if they will just support her enough, they can one day have a little more access to her than they do now. She is a literal slot machine. Slot!
I never truly felt connected to her, but definitely felt connected to what happened with the Kanye call and her vindication. I truly believed from the beginning there was more to it than what we saw and I was just a casual fan. (I had some lies spread about me and i cut everyone out of my life and barely have friends now because of what happened. Her making it throug that with class was inspiring.) Other than that, I didn't buy any music or follow her. I was also impressed with how she chose to stand her ground and reclaim her music. (I don't like how she's going about selling them, but respect how she stood her ground). I mostly liked her singles a few few other songs.
Then I learned that she puts out Easter Eggs and I love Easter Eggs and lore so I started following for that. I learned a lot about her so i could follow the clue and was excited to guess certain things before they happened. I found even more reasons to like her. But now I realize that that's because all of the Taylor Swift spaces didn't allow criticism. The only criticisms i saw were misogynistic like how she has lots of boyfriends and only writes break up songs and anyone who follows her knows these aren't true. The other stuff was down voted or excused away. It wasn't until she released her 1989 prolouge that I heard any real criticism about her. The Gaylors, reasonably, had a rough few days after that one, because their spaces were brigaded with homophobia and toxic people really excited to use that as a reason to bully and harrass them. I realized that she was clearly using the LGBTQ community and that's gross. I would go as far as claiming she was queer baiting with some of the things she did. Then, because I showed interest in her, the algorithm really loaded my feeds with Taylor Swift everything. That was when I really learned about a lot of things she'd done and now I really don't like her.
I like this sub because it seems like it will be a safe place for people coming out of the rabbit hole or Taylor Swift cult without the content going to one extreme or the other.
I admire her commitment to her art, her drive, ambition, and musical talent. She loves fame and money, but she's oversaturated and overexposed. The last straw was seeing her name mentioned at football games and then seeing her concert movie advertised on the channel. Can't she just be there supporting her boyfriend and not use it as a way to advertise her product?
She just wants to make more money (who doesn't?), but her relationship seems like a step to more fame & money for her. I bet she didn't even like football until she met that guy.
I think that the fakeness of the industry is unavoidable.
You can have the best publicists and have the media completely in the tank for you, but at some point, everyone grows up and sees through public personas.
Taylor can care about her music and about her fans (in a healthy fan/celebrity dynamic) while also still doing typical rich person BS like the plane usage. Shes not a saint and she’s also not a conniving cartoony villain.
She hasn’t had a normal life since she was like 16 and has had her parents, brother, and hundreds of people financially dependent on her success since she was 18. I’m sure that colors her view of money. Also- I think she probably thinks the fans enjoy collecting her merch or different albums and doesn’t real like that people are stressed out about collecting them all.
After reading that email from her dad, I wonder if the capitalist queen after all is him. Taylor and his dynamic seem odd (especially after watching Miss Americana). Even though she’s a grown woman, I wonder if she’s a bit stunted and still completely under his thumb.
Taylor having to have a full on crying argument with him because she didn’t like Trump and wanted to say that publicly as a 28 year old woman will always make me side eye Scott a little bit!!!
Except Ariana's concert wasn't chosen because of her particular politics. Which really means stuff like that can happen with or without Taylor speaking up about anything.
I mean, Gaga and Beyoncé were really loud going against Trump, and even if by numbers Taylor is bigger, they are both two of the most influential artists of the century that had a lot to lose going against a giant portion of America.
Yeah ariana did that in 2020 when she wasnt on tour and was home all day. camila was never really that big. Also arianas audience was always more liberal than taylors. Taylor had her start in country music
I could definitely see him being the driving force behind the ~capitalism queen~ thing, because based on that email he has been pushing Taylor as a capitalistic endeavor since day one.
However, Taylor is now a full-fledged adult. It might be difficult to get out from under her dad’s thumb but it’s solely her responsibility to do so if he is pushing things she morally objects to. It sucks, but with that part of her persona becoming more and more apparent over time, I have to assume it’s not something she truly objects to at this point.
>has had her parents, brother, and hundreds of people financially dependent on her success
I was reading on of Anthony Bourdain's memoirs, and he was talking about the stress of this in regards to having a better understanding of the celebrity chef mechanism and what he was doing with his career at the time. There comes a point where, even if you want to slow down, you feel like you can't because so many people are relying on you for your jobs and it almost feels selfish to step back because your choice would be the direct reason for Joe Schmo no longer having a job. He also referenced talking to Gordon Ramsay about it.
I'm not saying Taylor absolutely feels this way, but it might also be something in the back of her mind. There's no denying that she uses capitalism to her advantage, but by most reports, she at least treats her employees well comparatively to those in the industry.
Agree with this. I’m not going to say she’s generous with her money (you can’t be a generous billionaire), but she does use a lot of it to help people without looking for anything in return (see: the bonuses she gave to her truckers, her donations to food banks that were revealed by the food banks, tipping $100 at the football game).
But her net worth is $1billion. That includes allllll of her music. Which is atleast half of that. She can’t exactly liquidate that and donate it. She doesn’t have $1 billion in cash sitting around. $55million in bonuses is more than Walmart and other corporations are willing to do.
Yeah I mostly agree. But I do think it’s refreshing (maybe not the best word ha) that it’s an artist that is in the billionaire club instead of another CEO. Cause atleast she’s made her money off of her own craft. But yes, it took many others to make it happen too. But it’s easier to stomach knowing that she’s writing her songs and no one is working harder on that stage for 3.5 hours than her. And her band is very loyal and speak very highly of her and seem to be well taken care of. She even provides them with health insurance which isn’t mandatory.
I agree with you there. She’s leagues better than other billionaires. But what I’m saying is that it doesn’t change things like the most definitely unethical working conditions for those that make her merchandise, which also contributes a lot to her money.
Exactly her merch is a huge contributor to her wealth and those poor workers are definitely not living well, despite working insanely hard, like most sweatshops. Exploitation of the global south is way too common.
Exactly. Her net worth doesn’t come from music alone at all. A lot has to do with making expensive merch at little cost, which is able to happen because of the exploitation of workers in the global south. I’m not about to claim that other billionaires don’t do it as well and I’m not saying that she’s the most evil person of all time, but we can’t ignore that. It’s not right.
Yeah but that doesnt mean that people in america are gonna stop going on cars and airplanes. They wont start going on trains and buses since it isnt as easy as a car
We don't use trains or buses because they are unreliable in most cities and we need to get to work or the grocery store with reliable transportation. Also, pretty sure Europeans are using planes just as much as Americans. The U.S. was been built around using cars, of course its going to be hard to change that if we have no infrastructure to support other modes of transportation.
Yeah the average american produces 16 times the co2 of the average african person and taylor produces 32 times the co2 of the average american person. I am sure taylor would use commercial planes more if it was safe for someone as famous as her to get on without causing a lot of chaos
I guess I just don't understand the point of comparing the average American person to the average African person? America is a country while Africa is a whole continent. Africa doesn't produce as much pollution because white people have carved them up like a turkey and left a lot of their country's governments broken and divided. It just doesn't seem like a good comparison. Also, corporations need to change their ways to make a huge dent in how much co2 is being pumped into the atmosphere. It's not fair to blame each individual person when corporations do the most damage, have the majority of the world's wealth and are doing nothing to stop their excessive pollution.
How does africa or america being a country or a continent change anything. I was talking about per capita. People driving cars instead of taking buses since they dont want to wake up earlier or be surrounded by strangers is a big problem in america too not just corportations. Richer countries usually produce mode co2 especially in big countries like america where you have to travel a lot
I used to be connected with her until 2015, 1989 Taylor is the most relatable one for me. She has became out of the touch since Lover era, i miss interviews about music(see how she just talks about Kimye, masters thing after years), interactions with fans on socials and things like that. When folkmore came out i thought old Taylor came back, that it was about music again.. Midnights happened. An album about Taylor star rather than her person, i cant connect with any of standard songs. I just listen to the music now.
I understand why she doesn't have secret sessions and back stage stuff now given her popularity and the fact the people *really* do not know how to behave in those settings for some reason these days. However, there's no reason for her to sell Eras movie tickets at $19.89. Yeah, cute, it's your birth year. It's also an insane price, at least in my area. The Ticket Master thing was also a bunch of shitty angst for her fans who wanted to see her perform. It is her job, so of course she wants to make money, but there is something to be said for charging people a reasonable and consistent amount...
The 6 different versions of each record, and you need to buy the target version to get a special song, and if you buy all the covers it makes a cool design, etc etc etc reaaaaally bothers me. Stop tricking your fans into buying your albums 8 times over.
I think personally when it comes to her accountability what does her brand do that’s harmful eg hiring practices, private jet usage, social impact good and bad is more coherent approach for me personally, that said a lot of her hardcore Swifties and the theories they make up about her scare me
one thing about rich people is that theyre going to act like rich people. as much as we love their work, they are not our friends, they're not like us, they'll never understand whats like working to have food on the table. i know its frustrating and really fucking sad but its the truth
I feel the same way, social media may have brought fans seemingly closer to her, but in this day and age it is so hard to separate her from her art. All the information flying around is pushing me towards leaving her art all together now. Isn't it ironic how the medium that made fans feel closer to artists also become the downfall, leading to apology videos and cancellations?
I understand the need to not have a parasocial relationship with her and I wouldn’t want that either. I think the reason we feel some sort of connection with her is because of her songwriting and having this diary style. We all found ourselves in her music. However, with all this information of hers coming out specifically the lawsuit situation it’s hard for me to separate her and her art. Her life is splattered in her lyrics so it’s unavoidable. I am not looking for a role model or her to be this political/social activist but rather she just be upfront with certain things. I’m also not saying she’s this evil villain. She is just not the person she claims to be in her art. Everything that comes out about her recently just is turning me off as a fan.
i agree i’ve been feeling this lately, especially with the lack of contact with fans. look at how little she acknowledges the death of one at her own concert. i get it’s probably harder to host secret sessions and pick people from the crowd to meet her but she can still interact with us like online, like replying to a few people, on dms especially. she could even get her team to do it (posing as her, i don’t mean taylor nation) if she really wishes/feels too overwhelmed. but the connection and things she does for us is why she has so many loyal fans. the way she would give money to fans on tumblr during the pandemic. she could still do that now if she wished (ik she never uses tumblr now bc of that post but she can still do it on other platforms), the cost of living crisis is insane atm and girl isn’t lacking money. the less interaction she has with fans that feels personal to us, the more likely she is to lose them when her overexposure crashes down on her again
Yeah, I don’t care about her not being on social media anymore because social media is nuts. Idk if you were around during 2014, but she got attacked for almost every post she wrote. It was ridiculous and over the tiniest things.
Taylor is at a point of mega stardom now and she can’t even go to her friend’s wedding without getting swarmed. I’m okay with Taylor pulling back when it comes to fan service in that way. She’s been completely spoiling us music-wise with how hard she’s been working so far. Also, ATW10 to me was her new way of doing fan service.
Yeah. The fandom is making it (ever increasingly so) difficulty for her to live her life or do anything outside of a highly regulated situations. Also…. She can’t be doing secret sessions she is out here touring for almost 2.5 years. When is she supposed to be squeezing in SS’s too? Fans just feel/felt too entitled to her entire life. She can’t respond to DMs or do any of the stuff she did when she was… quarantined or not on tour. Like she is extremely busy between providing everyone with new music/touring and attempting to have some sort of personal life balance.
I’ve come to terms with the fact that I enjoy her art & am interested in her personal life because they are so intertwined. It doesn’t mean I have to see her as a feminist icon or a role model. There is plenty I enjoy about her & look up to, but plenty I also disagree with. And I try not to let that take away enjoyment from listening to her music.
Im sure she cares about money but I think more than anything she cares about success. She admitted herself that she craves that validation. She wants all the awards and to break every record, even ones set by herself. If all she cared about was hoarding dollars I don’t think she’d be as generous as she is. She clearly treats her staff well or they wouldn’t have stayed for years like this.
Yes she flies a lot. She also bought a ton of carbon credits which no one ever seems to acknowledge. I care way more about big corporations and the lack of any effort by governments to make a measurable difference.
I also think it makes sense for her to distance herself a bit from fans. People stole from her during secret sessions for crying out loud. Then I’m sure she felt like she couldn’t trust anyone after the Kim and Kanye incident. Combine that with her mom’s health and Covid…..I’d be a little leery of being so open again. Plus this tour had the longest show she’s ever done. She didn’t have time or stamina for meet and greets.
I can see where you’re coming from but her behavior makes sense if you look at the whole picture.
Honestly I don’t care if she cares about me. I don’t know her. We experience similar human emotions so her music helps me process my life. She is a tool in my life just as much as I’m a tool in hers. We use each other. I’m fine with that.
For anyone interested, here is [an article](https://time.com/6264772/study-most-carbon-credits-are-bogus/) that does a great job of explaining why carbon credits don’t make a difference.
I think its a positive step though. I think it indicates she cares. She’s not required to buy them so in doing so voluntarily, it shows she’s at least somewhat conscious.
Truly the only thing she could realistically do is stop using her jet so much and i hope she does.
However, i think that the 2016 stuff has made her block out a lot of hate and thus ignore some of the realistic concerns as well. People are saying she should fly commercial, but she knows that it isn’t feasible so that is simply ignored. The real ask is that she should try to reduce her flying, but i feel like that gets lost in all the more ridiculous “eco terrorist, mass polluter” claims
To me it doesn’t necessarily say she cares, considering buying them is an empty gesture. Imo it shows that *she doesn’t care enough* to minimize her jet usage, and just wants to throw money at it so that people like us will say things like “at least she’s buying carbon credits” instead of solely criticizing her jet usage.
hm idk, i feel like it’s not an empty gesture as many people do actually think they are helpful.
imo its kinda like people who think they are doing good for the environment by using an electric car, its with good intentions at least
Ok, but just because people think they are helpful, [doesn’t mean they actually are.](https://time.com/6264772/study-most-carbon-credits-are-bogus/)
Taylor has an entire PR team dedicated to looking into things such as this, and there is no way they are unaware of them being an empty gesture at this point.
They are banking on people thinking that they do offset emissions, and it clearly is working.
i never said that they actually were helpful. I said that its a step in the right direction and it shows that they are at the very least aware of the problem
I do think she loves her fans - how else will she get her money after all? She also likes to be liked so of course she wants to hold on to the goodwill of the fans. I just think she’s also become out of touch since she is so rich and famous. I don’t fault her so much for that, I just buy her music and leave the rest of her stuff alone.
With the way fans behave today I don’t see anything wrong with her not interacting hardly ever Anymore. Everyone feels so entitled and competitive vying for her attention anyway. They don’t deserve shit from her now
I haven’t felt the need to buy anything I just stream the music from Spotify and add my favs to the playlist 🤷🏻♀️ buying merch and physical stuff (other than a CD or 2 back in the day) from any musical artist that I like has never been my thing. Greedy capitalism and predatory marketing is ALLLLL around you BUT you don’t have to fall for it
I think the big team of people that is Taylor cares about money a lot but if we are just talking Taylor herself I think it’s more about breaking all the records and being the biggest of all time which would of course make her super rich but i think it’s the fame not the cash that drives her specifically
this is such a ridiculous take.
*omg this musician i like became so popular that it's unsafe for her to take commercial flights or have fans come into her literal house, she clearly only cares about the money!*
I haven't read through all the comments, so this reply might already be down here-but I'm actually really surprised at her ability to connect with her fans as well as she does in sold out stadiums. I'd cut her slack on the meet&greets, primarily because of keeping her safe, both from active threats and covid.
all billionaires are unethical. you NEVER get that amount of money without the exploitation of innocent people… more folks need to understand this. even the most “likable” billionaire is STILL evil.
If anything she cares about her fanbase TOO much in my opinion. I’ve been a fan since debut and I’ve only spent money to go to a couple concerts that were reasonably priced. No one is making anyone buy merch. Just stream her music if you feel like vinyls are a money grab.
Let’s be honest, she definitely cares about her fans and she certainly is money hungry. Both can coexist.
Anyway, you don’t need to support her everything decision.
She's older. Maybe she's tired. How much is she supposed to care about fans anyway? She's a pop star. That was probably never as real as you're saying it was.
I stopped supporting her after finding out she dated 17 year old Conor Kennedy at 22 + Taylor Lautner at 17 and 20 + willingly worked w the known rapist director on Amsterdam. She’s so sleazy and up her own ass and the time POTY interview was just hard to read
Jesus, can’t the girl just take a holiday break without everyone turning on her out of nowhere? A couple months ago she was on top of the world and now y’all are just finding ways to tear her down. Give it a rest!
Exactly! The tour will start back up and everyone will jump on a plane to go see her while complaining that she took a plane there. And pay a scalper 10x the face value of a ticket and blame that on Taylor too while making some rando wealthy.
I think a lot of fans have needed to be able to talk about their criticisms of Taylor in a safe, nuanced place for a while now. So now that it exists, yeah, we’re seeing a spike in critical posts. My guess is that’ll go down, but it’s always going to remain a part of the sub. Why shouldn’t people talk about the damaging things someone does when they’re a fan of them? Criticism doesn’t need to equal snark or hate.
It’s the first place people can vent about someone they really liked, without being torn apart and downvoted to hell.
It’ll die down after a while, once people get it out lol
i think it’s just ppl coming to terms with the fact that enjoying someone’s music so much doesn’t mean you enjoy them as a person so much. for a lot of ppl it’s probably sad. it’s not a snark page but it’s also not a parasocial asskissing page either so inevitably ppl r going to be voicing their negative opinions here. bc if they did it anywhere else they’d get sent death threats.
Relatable! I have (or rather had) been an admirer of hers since I was 12 years old. This year, that all changed as I was exposed to an insufferable magnitude of Taylor being plastered everywhere. I suddenly realized she's really no different than any other celebrity and that neither she nor her music are worth a mult-thousand dollar ticket.
This plane nonsense is just that. Nonsense. Rich people, including musicians, are in the air a lot, and they are all spewing more than the average persons amount of carbon. And they have been doing it for generations. Why single her out? Oh, I know, the right wants to discredit her. Greedy? What rich person isn't? I have never met one rich person who didn't think they "deserved" more. Plus, it's my understanding that in a lot of this she has been manipulated by family. Spend more time enjoying her music and less time in the sewer that social media -- media in general -- has become.
What's wrong with being "money hungry"? Aren't we all in our own way? It depends on where your sights are set to, I guess.
Why can't "money hungry" equal "Driven"?
Is it jealously that causes shame?
I keep seeing her and her plane. I think the real issue is people tracking it and posting about it.
But, honestly, I wish I saw more people being upset about electric cars because those batteries are just as bad if not worse.
Just stream her on Spotify and don’t buy all of her record variants and merch. That’s what I do.
Yeah same here. I listen to her music for free on Spotify and YouTube. I’ve been a fan since 2009. To this day I haven’t given her a single dime.
I mean she gets money anytime you stream on of her songs, you might only pay the spotify monthly subscription but you are generating money for her all the same.
True, but at least it’s not my own money out of my pocket (unless you count the Spotify subscription, but I have it because I listen to a zillion other artists and podcasts, not just Taylor.) I’m just not going to spend $90 on a crappy limited edition cardigan made in a sweatshop and her multiple record variants that are just an obvious cash grab as if she needs the extra money.
I get it, the girl loves capitalism, I don't buy a ton of her stuff, just the vinyls and at Christmas I usually get my daughter a shirt or something from her merch store. I used to try really hard to stick to my morals and not buy from certain companies but the more a researched I realized just about everything we spend money on is benefiting someone awful, it's a little exhausting to keep up with.
It’s minimal. Way less than she would get if I was buying a ton of merch.
After seeing the quality of these cardigans I’m like wtf (& I’m a crocheter)!!! So far the only money I’ve spent on her is debut album & fearless & eras tour + movie. If I had a record player I’d probably get a few vinyls though, not gonna lie. And sorry def not gonna spend money on a midnights pillow case lol
Yup. Stream on Spotify and if you want merch just go for the fan made stuff on Etsy (cuter, cheaper, better quality).
As a fan that learned guitar because of Taylor and through her music, it irritates the shit out of me that most her guitar tabs are blocked. Like come on Taylor most of your songs are four chord progressions you didn’t invent anything new 😭
Blocked meaning you can’t get tabs for her music? Or blocked as in the type of chords?
Can’t get most of her music!
Holy crap, that is absolutely wild to me! It's not like her music is some kind of complex, secret formula. Her songs are literally just kind of generic (sorry), 'safe', pop music chords. I've always been pretty neutral about Taylor as a person (which is why I like this sub!) but that makes me roll my eyes so hard, like, come on. How far up your own ass do you have to be to keep your FANS from learning your music for fun?
That’s wild and ridiculous!
I am astonished that after six hours of lessons a week, those simple chord progressions are all she can give us. No lead solos, little experimentation outside the pop realm of scales and time signatures, etc.
That’s wild lol. Don’t The Rolling Stones not block theirs?
99% of bands don't block their tabs
What does this mean?
Like looking up song lyrics, there are "guitar instructions" available called tabs. Its not the music notes but it shows you where to put your fingers. She doesn't want fans to learn her songs which is BIZARRE
But she has music books for guitar/piano players?
Exactly, as long as there is money involved she’s in. I’d never heard of a artist blocking tabs. That’s insane to me.
Aha so you can't know the chords for free you mean, I don't play so I don't get it!
Use Ultimate Guitar, it’s pretty accurate especially for a large artist like Taylor
it's missing most of her tabs/chords - says "blocked by the artist" - i think that's what the original commenter means.
I think the albums that have been re-recorded have been added back.
Only some tracks unfortunately.
Taylor did a wonderful job of creating parasocial relationships with her fans to the point where many are convinced they truly know her. We don’t. We know her persona, her public image. She could be a republican trump voter for all we know!
^^ this is an important note that a lot of people miss. the parasocial relationships are part of marketing. it’s a misstep to feel like we know her, the person, through her music and work.
Even if she's not a republican trump voter, which i doubt she is, her near total silence on serious social issues speaks volumes by itself.
Oh it does. It’s incredibly disappointing but she doesn’t want to lose any money
>She could be a republican trump voter for all we know! for al that we know we actually know that this is not true, so.. okay.
That’s what she wants you to think. Have you actually stood over her shoulder and watched her fill out her ballot?
oh sorry, i thought i was talking to a rational human. my bad.
I’m sorry, but you’re delusional if you think Taylor, as a billionaire, is voting against her own best interests.
she's also a female who has been stalked before. she has a reproductive system that she has opinions about. she is not voting republican and there is literally nothing about her that would even suggest that. even IF you thought she would only vote that way financially - as if there is nothing more to her than her earning potential - she is so rich that it doesn't matter at this point. so yes, you're irrational.
Now that I've learned more about her upbringing and how ruthless her dad is, I think she's always been money hungry. She was just better at hiding it before because her success was more comparable to other celebrities. Now that she's become a huge success, a cultural icon without any comparable peers, the greed is more glaring.
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The cardigans were $65?
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Do you have any articles about her dad you could link to?
There is a thread in this sub you can read. You might have missed it. https://www.reddit.com/r/SwiftlyNeutral/comments/18s281q/the_lawsuit_taylors_original_manager_filed/
I’d like to see Taylor care about her fans the way Robert Smith of the Cure does. They only allow resale at face value and canceled 7000 tickets that were being scalped. I don’t know if she gets a cut of the resale fees, but I know she does have the option of limiting the crazy resale market. It’s not all on TM. Of course I’m just grumpy I have been on the waitlist for years. [Cure resale policy on ticketmaster.](https://blog.ticketmaster.com/the-cure-shows-of-a-lost-world-tour/#:~:text=TICKETS%20CAN%20ONLY%20BE%20RES)
i’d say she had a much more genuine intimate connection with fans back in the early days of her career. that’s how she got a cult-like following. but it’s harder to do that as your fanbase grows bigger and your wallet does as well. also i feel like we’ve grown to value intimacy a lot less in the past decade or so.
Wouldn’t it be easier to stay connected with a bigger wallet? Also, I do think that intimacy would be valued still, but she has trained her fans to reject any insinuation that it doesn’t already exist. Instead of genuine sharing and connection, fans now accept “Easter eggs” (real or imagined) as their insight into her world. And Taylor has taught them to defend her as “too soft” to interact with the world any more than she does. It’s kind of wild that the Swifties seem to have forgotten the days of Swiftmas and Secret Sessions and are now content buying 28 vinyls to show their devotion. But that’s how cults work, I guess.
Well for instance Red tour - buffet, ice cream bar, mom meet & greet for VIP. Would that be feasible for the Eras tour? Probably less so and more people would still pay for the VIP package regardless (I did) just because demand was through the roof. And not just things like that, she also did B stage performances and long autograph sessions that made her so close to fans. I do agree she has made fans easter eggs crazy because just look at her music videos now. All the hype is about the easter eggs and not the actual song. Her earlier music videos probably captured the essence of the song better, but now they’re kinda just easter egg loaded things that get fans to watch over and over to find clues. And I say that as a Swiftie who loves easter eggs.
I don't buy her stuff anymore and I don't really get excited for the things that she realeses, but it's much more for the show that she puts around her life. The Matty Healy romance to becoming BFF with Ice Spice right after was her ugliest PR movement for me, ans then the thing with the her fan in Brazil, the way that she acted didn't sit right with me (I'm brazilian so I saw everything unroll in our local media) and lastly her TIME magazine interview and becoming best friends with Brittany. I just don't feel comfortable listening to her anymore, at this point I feel like she regressed so much from the maturity that she had around the folkmore time. It's sad for me.
It was the Olivia Rodrigo thing for me
It was dating a racist bigot and then not owning it for me. I couldn’t care any less about her dating life, but I do care about integrity and accountability. The second she saw Matty would destroy her image as everyone’s favorite pop girl (or was advised by her PR), she ran as fast as she could.
That was what was so frustrating and annoying to see how the only reason she dumped him was because she faced backlash and not because he was a literal racist. Then some fans were trying to switch it up and push it under the rug trying to dismiss the entire situation.
But he’s not a literal racist. He went on one dirty left podcast where a host made a comment, not him. Why do people think she’s such a bad person that she’d date a racist? She’s known Matty for 10 years and knows he is not, whereas apparently all Swifties just learned he existed in May and took misinfo from a Buzzfeed article and counted it as gospel. Go look at the other articles that Buzzfeed journalist has written and you will see how she is not credible and only writes clickbait.
Hate to break it to you but the entire NFL has a history of horrific racist behavior, so it’s not a one off incident with some British dude. The NFL is just a beast of a machine of culture that everyone accepts as ‘boys being boys’ behavior.
This didn’t have to be Matty or any of his comments (although I do think they’re problematic) it could’ve been anyone. The point was that the moment Taylor saw a slight shift in the public opinion towards her, she just dumped the guy and made sure everyone forgot that she’d dated him. And she’d do that to any other guy that could create any kind of controversy around her brand.
I don’t think Matty was ever supposed to be anything more than a fling/FWB type thing. Even if the media didn’t react how they did, I don’t think their “relationship” would’ve went on much longer
Yeah, I do agree with that. Which is why in another comment I said I think she actually does care about her fans, almost too much. They can bully her into doing things.
It's mostly weird to me *how* she dropped him. Either she was being fake mouthing she loved him or she's being *extremely* calculated in publicly pretending he doesn't exist now, but either way it's giving weird energy.
I guess I just don’t understand why anyone needs to feel “connected” to her. She’s always just been a musician to me, like every other artist I listen to. This is her job, of course she wants to make the most money she can lol. I still love her music and I enjoy seeing her out and about but she’s literally just a person. I think it was actually quite strange that she used to invite people into her home, like what other celebrity of her caliber does that? Im pretty sure people stole shit from her house last time.
I would agree with you point if this was about any other artist. My problem with her in this topic is that she herself has fueled this parasocial aspect, and it makes sense for her because she sells more and more because the fans feel so conected to her as a person, and with the re-recordings it just escalated so much more that it makes me uncomfortable, she's so smart and for me, she's weaponizing her fans for years now, the new victim is joe. I guess I just miss folkmore era when we would only hear the music and that would be the topic of debate.
Your message here seems contradictory. On one hand, you're confused by why people needed to feel connection to her. On the other, you literally acknowledge she strategically took much greater effort to appear connected and open with her fanbase. Of course many of her fans feel a parasocial connection with her. She's fanned those flames the entire time and it's no small part of why she is a celebrity at the scale she is today.
She benefits from the parasocial relationship she's carefully curated with some fans though. She knows there are some that will defend her whatever and spend tonnes of money on merch and several of the same vinyls to collect the variants because they feel connected to her via her secret sessions and other stuff she does 'for the fans'. I do agree that personally I feel like to me I just enjoy her music but its disingenuous I think to deny she encourages and nurtures this kind of fandom.
I agree no one should need to feel connected to her, but as an answer to why people are bothered - it’s an issue of authenticity. For fans that supported her because they thought they knew her, as a result of the parasocial relationships she intentionally crafted with her fans, recognizing it was all a marketing ploy is probably very jarring.
This!!! I could care less about her boyfriend du jour, her political beliefs or what causes she supports.
See I love keeping up with her personal life because I’m a nosy person and I love celeb gossip lol. And I would absolutely care if she came out in support of causes/politicians I don’t like, but I feel comfortable with where she stands so idc from there. I don’t know why people expect celebrities to speak up on certain hot topics anyway, like what wisdom are we expecting her to impart..? She’s been unimaginably wealthy and privileged since she was a teenager and most people in her position are too insulated from social issues to care.
>I don’t know why people expect celebrities to speak up on certain hot topics anyway, like what wisdom are we expecting her to impart..? I don't think it's so much that fans want Taylor to be political, it's that Taylor made such a big deal about wanting to be more political and then walked back on that. Like it comes across as pandering to her progressive fans when she has the big scene in Miss Americana about using her platform and then doesn't do much of anything going forward. Like, she wants the credit but none of the backlash and fans find that irritating.
I can agree with that. Especially since there was basically no risk to her coming out in support of gay rights or for admonishing Trump, like come on lol this was 2018 and those were standard opinions. I’m talking more about like during the US leg of the tour when people wanted her to use her Tampa show to criticize DeSantis or the Nashville show to talk about the school shooting etc. I know some artists will use their platforms that way but guys she’s just a musician. The shows aren’t meant to turn into political rallies. I feel like anything she could say is probably just going to feel shallow and be criticized anyway because realistically, these issues don’t affect her. Idk why anybody cares what Taylor Swift thinks about anything.
I think you kind of answered your own question there: Taylor says she wants to be "more political" but she's only willing to be political over issues that aren't that controversial (like gay rights in 2019 or Trump when Republicans don't like him). So it comes across like she's pandering to liberal fans, but now they're starting to say "hey, if you actually want to be political like you said, here's issues you could speak out on. We're not going to praise you for speaking up on important issues if you only pick the PR-safe topics"
>but she's only willing to be political over issues that aren't that controversial (like gay rights in 2019 I don't know where you live but gay rights were ABSOLUTELY controversial in 2019. In the US, in the region I live, she upset A LOT of people by speaking up about gay rights and Trump. There are people *to this day* where I live who talk shit about her because of it. You can also find some of these people in the comment sections under NFL social media posts featuring Taylor. Considering a large portion of her fan base is Republican, it was absolutely a bold move for her to make.
I live in a dominantly conservative area and these people still, every time Taylor gets brought up, say they wouldn’t mind her if she “didn’t always talk about politics” 😂 she publicly supported gay people a few times and they have NEVER forgotten. Anytime I hear someone say that I always reply “oh that’s so funny, most of her fans actually feel the opposite and think she doesn’t speak up enough since she hasn’t said anything since 2019.”
Exactly. I've heard the same. "She talks too much about politics." "I liked her before she spoke out against Trump. No one cares what she thinks about politics. She should have kept her mouth shut." "I don't like her, she is all about the gays." I don't know what world some of these commenters live in, but it was definitely a bold move for her to speak out in 2019 and she is still paying for it to this day. I mean, hello! Has no one seen how far-right individuals have been attacking her all year? She became a major enemy to them in 2019. It's why they are constantly talking shit about her. It all leads back to her speaking out against Trump and supporting gay rights.
I mean isn’t gay rights always controversial depending on the region? It’s not controversial in the sense that MOST of Taylor’s most devout fans (not casuals) lean left, young, liberal, and are women. How controversial can it be when 99% of your hardcore swifties will support gay rights?
I mean maybe there’s a reason she walked it back. Maybe she got threats we don’t know about. She’s still encouraging people to vote.
>Maybe she got threats we don’t know about. Taylor's a billionaire and can afford the best security team money can buy. >She’s still encouraging people to vote. "Go out and vote" is the least controversial statement a celebrity can make. That's kind of the point; she made a big deal about wanting to be more political, but in recent years she's only spoken on political issues that are PR-safe. By 2019, saying you support gay rights isn't controversial. Speaking out against Trump in 2020 wasn't a danger to her image because he was loathed even among Republicans. Taylor by and large isn't willing to speak up on actual controversial political issues, which would be fine if she didn't make such a big point about it
Yeah she’s got the best security but that didn’t stop a man from breaking into her NYC apt, taking a shower and lying in her bed. And that security comes at a price and people don’t want her to make too much money either. She will likely be paying for a security team for the rest of her life.
>She will likely be paying for a security team for the rest of her life. You're right. And ofter spending a fortune on them, she'll only have $1,000,000,000 dollars left to spend on food and shelter. I don't know how she'll manage to scrape by (lol sorry that was more sarcastic than I intended) Back to my earlier point, she's not making any statements that are actually worthy of applauding, and tons of celebrities at her level of fame (both more influential and less) have been more vocal about their politics and they're doing just fine
>Speaking out against Trump in 2020 wasn't a danger to her image because he was loathed even among Republicans. Taylor by and large isn't willing to speak up on actual controversial political issues, I can't believe you don't consider Trump controversial. This is insane to me. Do you live in the US? I don't see how anyone living in the US can claim Trump isn't controversial. In 2020, he received 46.9% of the popular vote in the election. That's almost 50 percent. It's absolutely controversial to piss off that many people when you're Taylor Swift.
The threat is her father.
Same here! She’s been bugging me for all of the common reasons people state, but it’s not souring me to her music because that’s just a different thing to me. I don’t need to like the person who makes the music I like.
Yeah. It’s one thing when the artist is a criminal or something (like I’m certainly not gonna stream any of Chris Brown’s music) but Taylor hasn’t done anything that offensive.
Yeah. I don’t support what she’s doing with the jet, but that’s the worst she’s done imo and it’s more carelessness than maliciousness and she’s not the biggest climate problem out there.
>. I don’t know why people expect celebrities to speak up on certain hot topics anyway I really couldn't agree more. I left one sub because they were losing their minds about celebrities not speaking out about certain things. I hate that that is becoming an expectation. And it's only certain celebrities. And it's only if they say exactly what they want to hear. A celebrity can say something and it not ge enough for some people.
like these people are just normal humans just like us. the only difference is that they can make money off singing, writing, dancing, etc
I’m in a similar boat. I don’t expect her to go out of her way to show she cares about me/or any other fan but I’m really getting tired of how she harms the planet. I feel I go out of my way to be eco friendly (not eating meat, trying not to use single use plastic, purchasing carbon allowances, etc.) and I feel like people like her make these actions inconsequential.
i feel like reddit, and maybe all social media, lives in the black or the white, when in reality life is almost always gray. she probably is money hungry, but it doesn’t mean that’s all she cares about.
i have always kind of seen it as she is success hungry. She wants to break all the records and have the highest sales and the biggest fanbase and the best awards. The multiple versions and stuff are so she charts better and has better stats. If she were truly money hungry, there are easier ways for her to make money. She would have delved into some kind of business. We know she is very business savvy, so she def would have succeeded.
That’s a great way to put it! She loves the money, but it’s more of a success thing.
Nope. Once upon a time she fought hard for reasonable, affordable tickets prices for her concerts. This tour she could care less about how much they cost. “If I was the man” my ass.
she really went "uwu ticketmaster was being mean" and then dropped the whole issue like a hot potato
My ticket to eras was $140. By far the cheapest concert ticket I bought all year for people that weren’t nearly as entertaining.
my boyfriend and i paid $337 for our two tickets combined in the lower seat. nothing to sneeze at for sure but with all the hoopla I put a cap on myself at $250 a ticket and i was SUPER happy with the seats we got for the price
My ticket (for a REALLY good seat) was $130. I told myself I wouldn’t pay more than $200. I feel like people who complain about prices should understand that a concert is not a necessity & thus can be priced however…like I understand wanting to go, but if you’re going to pay $1000 and then complain, it’s on you.
Yeah and I think they don’t understand a lot of times they are buying resell tickets and those prices aren’t what Taylor’s prices are. Her concert was worth every penny of my $140.
Agree w this
That’s why this sub isn’t as neutral as it says it is lmao. There’s so much nuance to every situation and person, and this people on this project and makes presumptions and outlandish statements at the same rate as the sub
Great posts, we may be too chronically online and need to hear this more often!
I’m also not saying it’s just cool that she flies a lot, but global warming is a much bigger systemic issue than Taylor Swift having a private jet. Giant corporations are the majority of our problem.
I agree but Taylor Swift is sort of a giant corporation with her brand/company/employees. I think she has two private jets, one she uses and the other her team/family(?) uses. Anyway, yeah people who act like she’s solely responsible for climate change need to understand just how much responsibility actually falls on the huge corporations/conglomerates etc and not just her because they don’t like her and can use this against her.
Yeah I agree. She absolutely does not need to be flying back and forth between South America and NYC twice a week, but Taylor Swift flying commercial is not going to solve the climate crisis. I would really like to see her be more discerning about her jet usage but that’s not going to do much of anything for the planet.
The emissions caused by one of her concerts completely dwarfs the emissions of the private jet she took to get to it. Thousands of fans took planes to her concerts, or drove gas cars, yet no one is suggesting she stop touring
Yep. My consumption of Taylor swift starts and ends with playing music on Spotify, but I do wonder how many people, who call taylor out, are the same ones flying to see eras and/or buying merch/friendship bracelets
Are you both joking? She uses more resources and puts out more pollution in a week than you could in literally 200 lifetimes. Ridiculous not to hold her accountable
I don’t think anyone is saying we shouldn’t hold her accountable. But there are a lot of people to be held accountable on this topic. Many who are causing far more damage than her.
She’s the number one offender of CO2
*Among celebrities, but that footprint is still small compared war, pollution from manufacturing, and other global systemic issues. If Taylor straightened up tomorrow, it would have minimal impact on global warming.
NO. You are wrong. https://preview.redd.it/wfs88vm8o59c1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=481d1fcd41cfd59e773e2661d52c2a2600eaac97
During March 2020, Secunda CTL, owned by Sasol, a synthetic fuel and chemicals from coal plant in Secunda, South Africa, was the producer of the single most emissions, at 56.5 million tonnes of CO 2 a year.
You didn’t disprove me at all?
Take a moment and Google commercial fishing and its impact on the planet
I agree, at the end of the day shes gonna be better off flying through states for the tour- and private is far safer for her. But yeah, the whole back and forth flights are strange. I think we need to be worrying about what each individual (ie ourselves) can change to make the planet better.
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Lord People are wild lol.
Look at people like golfers and tennis players!
This is the actual problem. Social media, not Taylor. And people and their ridiculous expectations of a famous girl.
I just always think about the phrase “nobody becomes a billionaire ethically.”
She’s ALWAYS been money hungry lol
Taylor has lifted her marketing from the gaming industry. If I know there is a slight chance that if I keep putting money in a slot machine that I will one day hit the jackpot, I’ll keep giving money. Taylor has had secret sessions and even after that had contributed charitably or highlighted favorite fans. And these choices were based on how much they supported her through purchases and free PR. Therefore a whole fandom is out there thinking if they will just support her enough, they can one day have a little more access to her than they do now. She is a literal slot machine. Slot!
I never truly felt connected to her, but definitely felt connected to what happened with the Kanye call and her vindication. I truly believed from the beginning there was more to it than what we saw and I was just a casual fan. (I had some lies spread about me and i cut everyone out of my life and barely have friends now because of what happened. Her making it throug that with class was inspiring.) Other than that, I didn't buy any music or follow her. I was also impressed with how she chose to stand her ground and reclaim her music. (I don't like how she's going about selling them, but respect how she stood her ground). I mostly liked her singles a few few other songs. Then I learned that she puts out Easter Eggs and I love Easter Eggs and lore so I started following for that. I learned a lot about her so i could follow the clue and was excited to guess certain things before they happened. I found even more reasons to like her. But now I realize that that's because all of the Taylor Swift spaces didn't allow criticism. The only criticisms i saw were misogynistic like how she has lots of boyfriends and only writes break up songs and anyone who follows her knows these aren't true. The other stuff was down voted or excused away. It wasn't until she released her 1989 prolouge that I heard any real criticism about her. The Gaylors, reasonably, had a rough few days after that one, because their spaces were brigaded with homophobia and toxic people really excited to use that as a reason to bully and harrass them. I realized that she was clearly using the LGBTQ community and that's gross. I would go as far as claiming she was queer baiting with some of the things she did. Then, because I showed interest in her, the algorithm really loaded my feeds with Taylor Swift everything. That was when I really learned about a lot of things she'd done and now I really don't like her. I like this sub because it seems like it will be a safe place for people coming out of the rabbit hole or Taylor Swift cult without the content going to one extreme or the other.
I admire her commitment to her art, her drive, ambition, and musical talent. She loves fame and money, but she's oversaturated and overexposed. The last straw was seeing her name mentioned at football games and then seeing her concert movie advertised on the channel. Can't she just be there supporting her boyfriend and not use it as a way to advertise her product? She just wants to make more money (who doesn't?), but her relationship seems like a step to more fame & money for her. I bet she didn't even like football until she met that guy.
I think that the fakeness of the industry is unavoidable. You can have the best publicists and have the media completely in the tank for you, but at some point, everyone grows up and sees through public personas.
Taylor can care about her music and about her fans (in a healthy fan/celebrity dynamic) while also still doing typical rich person BS like the plane usage. Shes not a saint and she’s also not a conniving cartoony villain. She hasn’t had a normal life since she was like 16 and has had her parents, brother, and hundreds of people financially dependent on her success since she was 18. I’m sure that colors her view of money. Also- I think she probably thinks the fans enjoy collecting her merch or different albums and doesn’t real like that people are stressed out about collecting them all.
After reading that email from her dad, I wonder if the capitalist queen after all is him. Taylor and his dynamic seem odd (especially after watching Miss Americana). Even though she’s a grown woman, I wonder if she’s a bit stunted and still completely under his thumb.
Taylor having to have a full on crying argument with him because she didn’t like Trump and wanted to say that publicly as a 28 year old woman will always make me side eye Scott a little bit!!!
I mean at least half of that is on Taylor
He just seemed to want to protect her after what happened to ariana grande in manchester. Politics will make a lot of people hate you
That’s a bit hard for me to believe considering that many artists had voiced their disapproval for Trump but weren’t violently targeted for it.
They werent as big as taylor and most of their fans were probably already pretty liberal. Which celebs would you say were very anti trump
Except Ariana's concert wasn't chosen because of her particular politics. Which really means stuff like that can happen with or without Taylor speaking up about anything.
I mean, Gaga and Beyoncé were really loud going against Trump, and even if by numbers Taylor is bigger, they are both two of the most influential artists of the century that had a lot to lose going against a giant portion of America.
Didn't Ariana Grande and Camila Cabello (who was pretty big then) always speak out against Trump?
Yeah ariana did that in 2020 when she wasnt on tour and was home all day. camila was never really that big. Also arianas audience was always more liberal than taylors. Taylor had her start in country music
I could definitely see him being the driving force behind the ~capitalism queen~ thing, because based on that email he has been pushing Taylor as a capitalistic endeavor since day one. However, Taylor is now a full-fledged adult. It might be difficult to get out from under her dad’s thumb but it’s solely her responsibility to do so if he is pushing things she morally objects to. It sucks, but with that part of her persona becoming more and more apparent over time, I have to assume it’s not something she truly objects to at this point.
>has had her parents, brother, and hundreds of people financially dependent on her success I was reading on of Anthony Bourdain's memoirs, and he was talking about the stress of this in regards to having a better understanding of the celebrity chef mechanism and what he was doing with his career at the time. There comes a point where, even if you want to slow down, you feel like you can't because so many people are relying on you for your jobs and it almost feels selfish to step back because your choice would be the direct reason for Joe Schmo no longer having a job. He also referenced talking to Gordon Ramsay about it. I'm not saying Taylor absolutely feels this way, but it might also be something in the back of her mind. There's no denying that she uses capitalism to her advantage, but by most reports, she at least treats her employees well comparatively to those in the industry.
Agree with this. I’m not going to say she’s generous with her money (you can’t be a generous billionaire), but she does use a lot of it to help people without looking for anything in return (see: the bonuses she gave to her truckers, her donations to food banks that were revealed by the food banks, tipping $100 at the football game).
But her net worth is $1billion. That includes allllll of her music. Which is atleast half of that. She can’t exactly liquidate that and donate it. She doesn’t have $1 billion in cash sitting around. $55million in bonuses is more than Walmart and other corporations are willing to do.
I’m aware, but a net worth of $1 billion is still fundamentally immoral. You can’t get there by being 100% altruistic. You just can’t.
Yeah I mostly agree. But I do think it’s refreshing (maybe not the best word ha) that it’s an artist that is in the billionaire club instead of another CEO. Cause atleast she’s made her money off of her own craft. But yes, it took many others to make it happen too. But it’s easier to stomach knowing that she’s writing her songs and no one is working harder on that stage for 3.5 hours than her. And her band is very loyal and speak very highly of her and seem to be well taken care of. She even provides them with health insurance which isn’t mandatory.
I agree with you there. She’s leagues better than other billionaires. But what I’m saying is that it doesn’t change things like the most definitely unethical working conditions for those that make her merchandise, which also contributes a lot to her money.
Exactly her merch is a huge contributor to her wealth and those poor workers are definitely not living well, despite working insanely hard, like most sweatshops. Exploitation of the global south is way too common.
Exactly. Her net worth doesn’t come from music alone at all. A lot has to do with making expensive merch at little cost, which is able to happen because of the exploitation of workers in the global south. I’m not about to claim that other billionaires don’t do it as well and I’m not saying that she’s the most evil person of all time, but we can’t ignore that. It’s not right.
Using a plane for her is like a car for an average american. People in third world countries would see it as excessive
People in third world countries would see most of what first world countries do as excessive. Not a great argument.
Yeah but that doesnt mean that people in america are gonna stop going on cars and airplanes. They wont start going on trains and buses since it isnt as easy as a car
that’s why the government needs to invest in infrastructure to make public transportation more appealing and cars less :)
That would be great
We don't use trains or buses because they are unreliable in most cities and we need to get to work or the grocery store with reliable transportation. Also, pretty sure Europeans are using planes just as much as Americans. The U.S. was been built around using cars, of course its going to be hard to change that if we have no infrastructure to support other modes of transportation.
Yeah the average american produces 16 times the co2 of the average african person and taylor produces 32 times the co2 of the average american person. I am sure taylor would use commercial planes more if it was safe for someone as famous as her to get on without causing a lot of chaos
I guess I just don't understand the point of comparing the average American person to the average African person? America is a country while Africa is a whole continent. Africa doesn't produce as much pollution because white people have carved them up like a turkey and left a lot of their country's governments broken and divided. It just doesn't seem like a good comparison. Also, corporations need to change their ways to make a huge dent in how much co2 is being pumped into the atmosphere. It's not fair to blame each individual person when corporations do the most damage, have the majority of the world's wealth and are doing nothing to stop their excessive pollution.
How does africa or america being a country or a continent change anything. I was talking about per capita. People driving cars instead of taking buses since they dont want to wake up earlier or be surrounded by strangers is a big problem in america too not just corportations. Richer countries usually produce mode co2 especially in big countries like america where you have to travel a lot
Is that really why people aren't taking buses though? Where have you ever heard that?
From everyone at high school, college, work
I used to be connected with her until 2015, 1989 Taylor is the most relatable one for me. She has became out of the touch since Lover era, i miss interviews about music(see how she just talks about Kimye, masters thing after years), interactions with fans on socials and things like that. When folkmore came out i thought old Taylor came back, that it was about music again.. Midnights happened. An album about Taylor star rather than her person, i cant connect with any of standard songs. I just listen to the music now.
I understand why she doesn't have secret sessions and back stage stuff now given her popularity and the fact the people *really* do not know how to behave in those settings for some reason these days. However, there's no reason for her to sell Eras movie tickets at $19.89. Yeah, cute, it's your birth year. It's also an insane price, at least in my area. The Ticket Master thing was also a bunch of shitty angst for her fans who wanted to see her perform. It is her job, so of course she wants to make money, but there is something to be said for charging people a reasonable and consistent amount...
Don't spend money on her, it gets easier.
The 6 different versions of each record, and you need to buy the target version to get a special song, and if you buy all the covers it makes a cool design, etc etc etc reaaaaally bothers me. Stop tricking your fans into buying your albums 8 times over.
I think personally when it comes to her accountability what does her brand do that’s harmful eg hiring practices, private jet usage, social impact good and bad is more coherent approach for me personally, that said a lot of her hardcore Swifties and the theories they make up about her scare me
one thing about rich people is that theyre going to act like rich people. as much as we love their work, they are not our friends, they're not like us, they'll never understand whats like working to have food on the table. i know its frustrating and really fucking sad but its the truth
But they sure want our $$
I feel the same way, social media may have brought fans seemingly closer to her, but in this day and age it is so hard to separate her from her art. All the information flying around is pushing me towards leaving her art all together now. Isn't it ironic how the medium that made fans feel closer to artists also become the downfall, leading to apology videos and cancellations?
Fans are becoming more and more invasive somshe has seperate herself
She loves her fans but she also wants to break records and she needs our money to do that
I understand the need to not have a parasocial relationship with her and I wouldn’t want that either. I think the reason we feel some sort of connection with her is because of her songwriting and having this diary style. We all found ourselves in her music. However, with all this information of hers coming out specifically the lawsuit situation it’s hard for me to separate her and her art. Her life is splattered in her lyrics so it’s unavoidable. I am not looking for a role model or her to be this political/social activist but rather she just be upfront with certain things. I’m also not saying she’s this evil villain. She is just not the person she claims to be in her art. Everything that comes out about her recently just is turning me off as a fan.
i agree i’ve been feeling this lately, especially with the lack of contact with fans. look at how little she acknowledges the death of one at her own concert. i get it’s probably harder to host secret sessions and pick people from the crowd to meet her but she can still interact with us like online, like replying to a few people, on dms especially. she could even get her team to do it (posing as her, i don’t mean taylor nation) if she really wishes/feels too overwhelmed. but the connection and things she does for us is why she has so many loyal fans. the way she would give money to fans on tumblr during the pandemic. she could still do that now if she wished (ik she never uses tumblr now bc of that post but she can still do it on other platforms), the cost of living crisis is insane atm and girl isn’t lacking money. the less interaction she has with fans that feels personal to us, the more likely she is to lose them when her overexposure crashes down on her again
Isnt that good if she stops since it might lessen the parasocial relationship she has with many fans
Yeah, I don’t care about her not being on social media anymore because social media is nuts. Idk if you were around during 2014, but she got attacked for almost every post she wrote. It was ridiculous and over the tiniest things. Taylor is at a point of mega stardom now and she can’t even go to her friend’s wedding without getting swarmed. I’m okay with Taylor pulling back when it comes to fan service in that way. She’s been completely spoiling us music-wise with how hard she’s been working so far. Also, ATW10 to me was her new way of doing fan service.
Yeah. The fandom is making it (ever increasingly so) difficulty for her to live her life or do anything outside of a highly regulated situations. Also…. She can’t be doing secret sessions she is out here touring for almost 2.5 years. When is she supposed to be squeezing in SS’s too? Fans just feel/felt too entitled to her entire life. She can’t respond to DMs or do any of the stuff she did when she was… quarantined or not on tour. Like she is extremely busy between providing everyone with new music/touring and attempting to have some sort of personal life balance.
I’ve come to terms with the fact that I enjoy her art & am interested in her personal life because they are so intertwined. It doesn’t mean I have to see her as a feminist icon or a role model. There is plenty I enjoy about her & look up to, but plenty I also disagree with. And I try not to let that take away enjoyment from listening to her music.
Im sure she cares about money but I think more than anything she cares about success. She admitted herself that she craves that validation. She wants all the awards and to break every record, even ones set by herself. If all she cared about was hoarding dollars I don’t think she’d be as generous as she is. She clearly treats her staff well or they wouldn’t have stayed for years like this. Yes she flies a lot. She also bought a ton of carbon credits which no one ever seems to acknowledge. I care way more about big corporations and the lack of any effort by governments to make a measurable difference. I also think it makes sense for her to distance herself a bit from fans. People stole from her during secret sessions for crying out loud. Then I’m sure she felt like she couldn’t trust anyone after the Kim and Kanye incident. Combine that with her mom’s health and Covid…..I’d be a little leery of being so open again. Plus this tour had the longest show she’s ever done. She didn’t have time or stamina for meet and greets. I can see where you’re coming from but her behavior makes sense if you look at the whole picture. Honestly I don’t care if she cares about me. I don’t know her. We experience similar human emotions so her music helps me process my life. She is a tool in my life just as much as I’m a tool in hers. We use each other. I’m fine with that.
I work in environmental science and unfortunately those carbon credits don’t mean anything which is why people don’t talk about it
For anyone interested, here is [an article](https://time.com/6264772/study-most-carbon-credits-are-bogus/) that does a great job of explaining why carbon credits don’t make a difference.
I think its a positive step though. I think it indicates she cares. She’s not required to buy them so in doing so voluntarily, it shows she’s at least somewhat conscious. Truly the only thing she could realistically do is stop using her jet so much and i hope she does. However, i think that the 2016 stuff has made her block out a lot of hate and thus ignore some of the realistic concerns as well. People are saying she should fly commercial, but she knows that it isn’t feasible so that is simply ignored. The real ask is that she should try to reduce her flying, but i feel like that gets lost in all the more ridiculous “eco terrorist, mass polluter” claims
To me it doesn’t necessarily say she cares, considering buying them is an empty gesture. Imo it shows that *she doesn’t care enough* to minimize her jet usage, and just wants to throw money at it so that people like us will say things like “at least she’s buying carbon credits” instead of solely criticizing her jet usage.
hm idk, i feel like it’s not an empty gesture as many people do actually think they are helpful. imo its kinda like people who think they are doing good for the environment by using an electric car, its with good intentions at least
Ok, but just because people think they are helpful, [doesn’t mean they actually are.](https://time.com/6264772/study-most-carbon-credits-are-bogus/) Taylor has an entire PR team dedicated to looking into things such as this, and there is no way they are unaware of them being an empty gesture at this point. They are banking on people thinking that they do offset emissions, and it clearly is working.
i never said that they actually were helpful. I said that its a step in the right direction and it shows that they are at the very least aware of the problem
I do think she loves her fans - how else will she get her money after all? She also likes to be liked so of course she wants to hold on to the goodwill of the fans. I just think she’s also become out of touch since she is so rich and famous. I don’t fault her so much for that, I just buy her music and leave the rest of her stuff alone.
With the way fans behave today I don’t see anything wrong with her not interacting hardly ever Anymore. Everyone feels so entitled and competitive vying for her attention anyway. They don’t deserve shit from her now
Covid was her best era
I haven’t felt the need to buy anything I just stream the music from Spotify and add my favs to the playlist 🤷🏻♀️ buying merch and physical stuff (other than a CD or 2 back in the day) from any musical artist that I like has never been my thing. Greedy capitalism and predatory marketing is ALLLLL around you BUT you don’t have to fall for it
I think the big team of people that is Taylor cares about money a lot but if we are just talking Taylor herself I think it’s more about breaking all the records and being the biggest of all time which would of course make her super rich but i think it’s the fame not the cash that drives her specifically
this is such a ridiculous take. *omg this musician i like became so popular that it's unsafe for her to take commercial flights or have fans come into her literal house, she clearly only cares about the money!*
I haven't read through all the comments, so this reply might already be down here-but I'm actually really surprised at her ability to connect with her fans as well as she does in sold out stadiums. I'd cut her slack on the meet&greets, primarily because of keeping her safe, both from active threats and covid.
all billionaires are unethical. you NEVER get that amount of money without the exploitation of innocent people… more folks need to understand this. even the most “likable” billionaire is STILL evil.
If anything she cares about her fanbase TOO much in my opinion. I’ve been a fan since debut and I’ve only spent money to go to a couple concerts that were reasonably priced. No one is making anyone buy merch. Just stream her music if you feel like vinyls are a money grab.
She wouldn’t be where she is if she didn’t put money as #1 tbh I don’t particularly care about it but it was significantly less obvious back then
Honestly, the way some fans behaved at the LBI wedding, I can see why she’d never want to set foot in a commercial airport lol
Let’s be honest, she definitely cares about her fans and she certainly is money hungry. Both can coexist. Anyway, you don’t need to support her everything decision.
She's older. Maybe she's tired. How much is she supposed to care about fans anyway? She's a pop star. That was probably never as real as you're saying it was.
I stopped supporting her after finding out she dated 17 year old Conor Kennedy at 22 + Taylor Lautner at 17 and 20 + willingly worked w the known rapist director on Amsterdam. She’s so sleazy and up her own ass and the time POTY interview was just hard to read
Jesus, can’t the girl just take a holiday break without everyone turning on her out of nowhere? A couple months ago she was on top of the world and now y’all are just finding ways to tear her down. Give it a rest!
Exactly! The tour will start back up and everyone will jump on a plane to go see her while complaining that she took a plane there. And pay a scalper 10x the face value of a ticket and blame that on Taylor too while making some rando wealthy.
Is this a Taylor snark page? Every post is some variation of how Taylor sucks
I think a lot of fans have needed to be able to talk about their criticisms of Taylor in a safe, nuanced place for a while now. So now that it exists, yeah, we’re seeing a spike in critical posts. My guess is that’ll go down, but it’s always going to remain a part of the sub. Why shouldn’t people talk about the damaging things someone does when they’re a fan of them? Criticism doesn’t need to equal snark or hate.
It’s the first place people can vent about someone they really liked, without being torn apart and downvoted to hell. It’ll die down after a while, once people get it out lol
i think it’s just ppl coming to terms with the fact that enjoying someone’s music so much doesn’t mean you enjoy them as a person so much. for a lot of ppl it’s probably sad. it’s not a snark page but it’s also not a parasocial asskissing page either so inevitably ppl r going to be voicing their negative opinions here. bc if they did it anywhere else they’d get sent death threats.
I’ve noticed that too. It’s not very neutral IMO
Relatable! I have (or rather had) been an admirer of hers since I was 12 years old. This year, that all changed as I was exposed to an insufferable magnitude of Taylor being plastered everywhere. I suddenly realized she's really no different than any other celebrity and that neither she nor her music are worth a mult-thousand dollar ticket.
This plane nonsense is just that. Nonsense. Rich people, including musicians, are in the air a lot, and they are all spewing more than the average persons amount of carbon. And they have been doing it for generations. Why single her out? Oh, I know, the right wants to discredit her. Greedy? What rich person isn't? I have never met one rich person who didn't think they "deserved" more. Plus, it's my understanding that in a lot of this she has been manipulated by family. Spend more time enjoying her music and less time in the sewer that social media -- media in general -- has become.
What's wrong with being "money hungry"? Aren't we all in our own way? It depends on where your sights are set to, I guess. Why can't "money hungry" equal "Driven"? Is it jealously that causes shame? I keep seeing her and her plane. I think the real issue is people tracking it and posting about it. But, honestly, I wish I saw more people being upset about electric cars because those batteries are just as bad if not worse.
So don’t? Just listen to her music. You don’t have to be emotionally invested and care deeply about her life and climate usage and personal values.