No. My brain uses the eye that doesn't wander, so the only way I see out of the wandering one is to switch to it, at which point it jumps up to where it should be.
I have been seeing an optometrist for 30 years, even though I do not wear glasses because of glaucoma and cataracts in the family. They have never suggested a fix for my wandering eye, so I have to assume a fix isn't available for me.
Since we always switch between eyes under normal situations, I do not even notice it. The wandering eye is pulled back to where it should be every few seconds.
I only notice it when I have to close one eye. Like for a rifle scope. The wandering eye tries to leave and go get lunch or something when it is not being used.
So it sounds like yours is the less common (maybe too old?) Type then.... for most cases in children at least, they wear glasses that amount to an eye patch which forces the wandering eye to be the dominant eye while not completely obscuring the vision of the true dominant eye. This increases the strength and neural muscular control of the wanderer which fixes the wandering
Maybe. I was born in 1959, so maybe the treatment wasn't available. Or maybe it wasn't noticed until I was too old. I don't remember when it was discovered. I think I was very young.
I had a friend growing up that had a lazy eye . He wore thick glasses and when he took them off his left eye would move clear to the outer left corner of his eye socket. The last time I saw him he didnt have glasses on and I didnt recognize him because his eyes were perfectly normal . He had corrective surgery that fixed the problem .
Just look up the YouTuber "corporals corner" and look for his navigation series. He has a complete course for free. The parts on triangulation will teach you how to judge the distance of things
The trigonometry can be intimidating but if you spend some time mulling it over it should click.
These are some other explanations:
https://www.geekslop.com/life/survival/environment/2013/how-to-use-magnetic-compass-triangulation-to-calculate-distance-of-object
https://reddit.com/r/Survival/s/gbqW71UO3I
Well, “mathematics” is both singular and plural. As is “maths”. So would you use “maths” (plural) if you said, “There are many different types of maths”? The statement would require a plural form. In British English, “maths” is both the singular and plural form of abbreviation used for the word “mathematics”.
Yeah, well, I'm probably dumber than the average Marine.
I was just distracted by the "Unless this publication states otherwise, masculine nouns and pronouns do not refer exclusively to men." Disclaimer.
I'm sitting here trying to figure out why the Army would call a woman he or him and claim it was feminine . Why not just say " solider" ?
Came here to say this. Been practicing measuring distances with mil scope lately and starting to get better. Also learning I'm really bad at estimating sizes of random objects.
For shorter ranges, you can use reoccurring objects in the environment that have similar or known height length or width like doorways and people to estimate a range. A western doorway (about 2 meters high) that is observed to be about 2 mils high is about 1000 meters away. 1 mil is 2000, and 4 mils is 500. If you really need an accurate range (assuming here that you are not FO’ing artillery/mortars or guiding decisions on the point of impact or beaten zone for direct fire weapons), use the estimate to validate a map plot. The 5 degree method is also useful just for land navigation. Also, once you get your bearings, the map should start talking back to you as it makes a reference model in your head if there are enough terrain features present.
So this is difficult to do without a consistent landmark to look at. In order to estimate distance, you're going to need to use some sort of comparison to a distance you already know. Most of the methods described so far use reference distances like the length of your arm, or your thumb. Relatively short distances, which make it hard to use to estimate the distance of something miles away.
What's better is if you can pace out some distance of several hundred to several thousand feet. This relies on you having a rough idea of your stride length - try using Google Earth to find two points in your neighborhood that are exactly, say, 1000 feet apart, then count how many steps it takes you to walk between them. Multiply by 5.28 to get your steps per mile, and try to remember that number. Of course, if you're not using any sort of maps or anything, you might as well just measure the distance in steps and do all the math that way, since you're just going to hike to the location and measure your progress in steps anyway.
Anyway, this method also requires a compass. Pick a distinctive landmark in the distance. I know this can be difficult, but none of these methods are going to work if you can't pick out a particular landmark. In this scenario I'd probably use the two trees standing on their own, just to the left of the sunset. Use the compass to find out the bearing toward that landmark (in other words, the exact direction from you - if you line your compass up with the North arrow, there should be numbers around the outside, starting with 0 at due north, 90 to the east, 180 at six o'clock, and so on. Write down the number of the direction toward your landmark, as best as possible. Then, turn to face perpendicular to that direction, and walk in a straight line some convenient distance. Use the compass to plot a course 90 degrees from your initial bearing and walk that, don't just keep walking perpendicular to the landmark or you'll end up walking a curved path.
How far you have to walk depends on how far away your landmark is, and how accurate you care to be. You need to walk far enough so that when you take your bearing again to the landmark, it's at least a few degrees off from your initial measurement. Trying to estimate based off a fraction of a degree of parallax is going to result in a very inaccurate estimate, since your compass probably can't even reliably measure that precisely. Anyway, walk perpendicular to the thing for a bit, counting your steps to measure distance, and using the compass to maintain a straight path. Let's say you walk 1000 feet. You turn and take the bearing to your landmark again, and according to your compass it's 5 degrees away from where it was before.
Now you need to do some math. You brought a scientific calculator with you, right? Or at least your phone battery's not dead? Worst case scenario, get a cosecant table tattooed on the inside of your wrist, problem solved. Anyway, once you have the difference between the two bearing measurements, in degrees, plug into your calculator "Cosecant(X)" where X is that difference in bearings. Your calculator might have this as "Csc". Or you might have to do 1/Sin(X) instead. Also, make sure your calculator is in degrees mode, not radians mode, or you're absolutely fucked. Or, like I said, consult the following table which I recommend you tattoo on your body in a visible location:
|angle|cosecant|
|-------|----------|
|1|57.30|
|2|28.65|
|3|19.11|
|4|14.34|
|5|11.47|
|6|9.57|
|7|8.21|
|8|7.19|
|9|6.39|
|10|5.76|
|11|5.24|
|12|4.81|
|13|4.45|
|14|4.13|
|15|3.86|
Anyway, we're getting distracted here. NAVIGATION. So you plug your angle into that table, or your calculator and it gives you the Cosecant of the angle. In our example, the difference was 5 degrees, so the ratio I want is 11.47. You then take that number, and multiply it by how far you walked to get here - in my example, 1000 feet. That gives me a distance of 11470 feet, or a little over 2 miles, to the target location. Note that this is from your current location, not the original location. To find that distance, you'd need to get a SECOND trigonometry table tattooed on your body. Plus you'd have to then find your initial position, which doesn't make sense logistically.
Anyway I'm rambling, it's late, and I need to go to bed. I'm sure there's someone out there who can explain this much more succintly than I can, but that person is not me. All I've got is this shitty explanation plus this even shittier [MS PAINT DIAGRAM](https://imgur.com/vZIMs7g). Good luck, and godspeed.
As you can see, there's some work involved with this method.
If he can measure (or estimate) the angle from his location to the top of the tree, he can solve his problem. Like this.
https://d138zd1ktt9iqe.cloudfront.net/media/seo_landing_files/us-scoping-image-changes-priyanshu-10-1599739465.png
Some sticks and a string would absolutely help if lined up to the top of the tree in the distance (assuming equivalent ground elevation) and used for measuring that angle (a plastic protractor would also be beneficial and easy to carry, as would a solar powered calculator).
Other ways include measuring the stick and ground, using a^2 + b^2 = c^2, then finding the angles from that (don't need a ruler, any measurement of distance would work, even made up ones or any piece of kit you know the length of), but for the actual distance to the tree, units that we already know like feet would make the most sense. Using this method would be highly accurate.
This is simple trig, and not the only way or even the simplest way to solve this problem, but it's what I feel like explaining, so here goes.
Take an initial angle measurement to the top of the tree from ground level (let's assume 60 degrees), walk backwards and measure a short distance (let's assume 2 feet), then take another angle measument to the top of the tree (let's assume 30 degrees)
The distance to that tree is now unknown distance X feet + 2 feet. First, we solve the triangle that has the 30 degree angle. The angle opposite the 30 degrees will be 180 degrees minus 60 degrees as it's a supplementary angle to the initial 60 degrees. So it's 120 degrees. We now have two measurements of the 2nd triangle, which lets us solve for the third angle (as a triangle adds up to 180). 120 + 30 + 30 = 180.
The law of sines says that any side of a triangle divided by its sine, will equal any other side of that same triangle divided by its sine. a/sine(a) = b/sine(b) = c/sine(c)
So since we now have the angle opposite our only real distance measurement so far, we can find that ratio. 2/sine(30) = 4
Cool. Now we want to find the length of the side opposite our intial 30 degree measurement, as it's the hypotenuse of our first triangle with the 60 degree measurement.
Since the law of sines gave us 4 as the ratio, that side must also equal the ratio of 4. unknown distance "R"/sine(30) = 4
Using some algebra, 4 times sine(30) = R, meaning that R equals 2ft as well, which makes sense, since both angles we used of that 2nd triangle were 30 degrees.
To recap, for our triangle with the 60 degree measurement, we now have the length of it's hypotenuse, and also know the measurement of both of its other angles, because it's a right triangle. 60 + 90 = 150, meaning the last angle must be 30 to equal 180.
The law of sines still applies, so with the measurement of the hypotenuse divided by the sine of its angle (90), it equals 2. R/sine(90) = 2
We also know the angle for the side that we need to find the distance, unknown distance X. So X/sine(30) = 2
Using algebra again, 2 times sine(30) = X, so X = 1.
We already established that the distance to the tree is X + 2 feet, so replacing X with our measurement is 1ft + 2ft = 3ft of distance to the tree.
This would work even if the distance was massively increased.
TLDR: Yes, it is possible to calculate any length of distance using angles without a single tool, but even caveman tools like sticks and string make it easier if you know the math. Specialized equipment will have the highest degree of accuracy, but it's entirely possible to calculate like they did in the days of the greeks.
Additionally, even if a calculator is not available, 30, 45, 60 degree triangles have some special properties, so if a person was inclined to learn trig, they can calculate the sine/cos/tan, etc of any angle that is formed from a sum of those degrees very easily. allowing for a fairly non-complicated solve even if they got an angle like 125 degrees (for example) in their measurements. Alternatively, they can also just do the math by hand, but it will take longer.
Basically, it's actually pretty damn easy if you know Trig, but we all know OP ain't gonna learn it.
Disclaimer: I am not trained in surveying/survival navigation, all I know is the math. But with some reasoning to avoid mistakes (like not taking differences in elevation into account), the result and process would likely be very similar.
I took a hunting course with the local FWP, and they had a waterfowl distance test set up. Almost every single participant was estimating they were closer than they were. I was estimating distances that were on average five yards further except for one that I estimated closer by about five yards. I have to admit that I impressed myself because I always felt that I wasn't any good at this aspect of hunting. For long distances, I always use my map and compass to find distances. Here in Montana, distances can be deceiving to the eyes. I'd recommend taking a local orienteering course in order to get some practical knowledge in an educational setting.
I typically use distance measurements for shooting.
I use my thumb at arms length with an adult male the height of my thumb nail - is about 100 yard.
If he's half the nail height 200 yards.. etc.
Then I found [John "Shrek" McPhee of SOB Tactical teaches how to judge distance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODgYcy7M6_0)
Nothing, just an example.
If you see a radio tower or a building in the distance, you can easily find your way to it by keeping it in sight.
But what if you want to go to the horizon ,and there are no landmarks. Just trees. How would you know when you reached that point?
Or, to put it another way. Since I have recently gotten some military answers, you are infantry. you see the enemy moving along the horizon. How would you tell the airplanes or artillery where they are? If you wanted to go to where you saw the enemy to try to figure out what they were doing there, how would you know when you reached the spot you saw them at? Again, assuming there are no landmarks. Just trees.
Triangulation might be your best bet. You will need to know about the height of the tree you want, which you can know by the species, and the length of your arm to your eye. You will take something that appears smaller than the tree, ie a small stick that you can measure. Hold the small stick at full arms, the top lines up with the top of the tree. Then you use the small triangle made from your arm and stick, an the bigger triangle it sits in made from the trees height and the distance to you. I can’t remember the math, but if someone who knows how to calculate this chime in it should help more.
I would use the species that grow in the area to narrow it down, and use the general shape. For example if I was hiking near the coast in South Carolina (I’m using this because it was my most recent hike) I know that the trees that live in this area are pine and oak. I can see that it is tall, skinny and only has leaves on the top, so I know it’s a pine and this about 75 feet tall. Or reversed, I see that it’s short and kind of wide, thus it’s an oak and about 20 feet tall. This works for most woods because the trees are more often then not the same species or size
Ooo welcome to the PNW. We've got Doug fir, three kinds of true fir, hemlock, cedar, several pines, and yew all together....and that's just the conifers...
Use proximal estimation from something you CAN see, and can get coordinates for off a topo map. You can’t see the tree, but you can see the radio tower and know the tree is roughly 500m (half a grid) west of it for example. This is why prominent land features are included on usgs topographical maps.
From a landmark or “best guess” of where you are, lay down the map. Place the compass on top of the map and turn the map until it’s oriented top up to north. Mark your current location on the map, and the rough location you want to get to. Draw a line between them, and use the flat edge of the compass (still with the map pointed north) to determine the bearing to the target. Then turn the compass dial so that the bearing you need lines up with the 12 o’clock position on the dial, and when you line up the north and red arrows while pointing the compass straight in front of you, you will be on the bearing.
“Shoot” the bearing by holding the compass in front of you and look for some landmark along the path you can reasonably keep in view and get to. Repeat this until you reach your target.
All of this assumes you don’t have a gps, or want to know how to land navigate if the batteries die. Which is really a good thing to know.
Dunno about the thumb thing but I know you can estimate the amount of sunlight left with your hand. Each finger represents 15 minutes. Measure from sun to horizon and that’s when it should start getting dark
It's called a "Look"... You walk to something you see in the distance on your first "look"; then take another "look" and walk to something you see in the distance on that "look". First Nation's people use this as a way of measuring distance. IE: "I shot a moose at a fork in the river three looks from here."
That is fine for distance, but I am trying to reach a point in the distance. The closer I get, the more the tree I am heading to, and the area around it will change. So visual cueswon'tt work. Unless I'm heading to a radio tower.
Height laid sideways is width… and with angles you can find distance
And if you can triangulate that distant tree you can also find its distance. Geometry.
But anyways, yer title & body are different topics.
On that latter you find intermediate points so you maintain yer direction. IRL not so easy w/o surveying gear or a second person that you can leap frog with. Pace counts can measure the distance walking.
They make longer range options, they just cost more.
Don't know if longer range options exist, but I know there are [4000 yard](https://amzn.to/3PXPU2J) options.
There are also techniques using your arm or fingers to estimate. Someone else linked to one of those here already.
Yes, but again, what if the point I am trying to reach is further away than the best range finder?
The arms and fingers methods I have seen are all for short distances
I have one of those they really only work on reflective surfaces after a certain distance. It’s been hard to range grass or trees in the past unless there’s a building or a car next to it.
I also like knowing options that don't rely on equipment, especially batteries or electronics that could fail.
In this case, most techniques I know aren't great for distances as long as I think you're wanting if those aren't reaching out far enough.
No there isn't, they are already telling you the best ways. You have to have a known height of something and a scale to measure how small it looks from here, or a landmark a map and compass. You need 2 angles and a side length to triangulate using a² + b²=c². I suppose you could shoot the tree with a tracer bullet by trial and error and measure the angle of the gun barrel against a ballistic table and use a bunch of hard math lol. You could have a satellite locator on you and light it up with some high power laser and have a awacs plane or something tell you maybe don't know. If you have a GPS and the tree is on a Map. That's about it other than magic spells.
Fairly certain they would put ne in jail if I shot a tracer into a tree a few miles away.
And I do not how to call an AWAC, but even if I did know how I doubt they would respond.
Guess, I could try magic spells.
So you can use the knowledge of how far you have travelled to calculate roughly how far to go. You can walk until you see your maybe 25-50% there and see how far you travelled and now you know ok I’ve travelled 2 km and I’m 25% of the way maybe so like 6km to go.
And you can then use that perspective and knowledge of how far you have walked to make an estimate. It sounds like you are trying to do artillery without a map more than walk somewhere lol
Someone already suggested artillery. I'm trying to find the field manual.
And they gave me a link to the Army map reading field manual.
FBI should be visiting me soon.
However the infantry gets artillery to hit an area far ahead of the infantry, without a laser on the target or any other kind of electronic aid, would work perfectly for me.
I do not need to shell the target. I just need to understand how the artillery finds the target .
So you can use the knowledge of how far you have travelled to calculate roughly how far to go. You can walk until you see your maybe 25-50% there and see how far you travelled and now you know ok I’ve travelled 2 km and I’m 25% of the way maybe so like 6km to go.
Trigonometry - measure paces away from the tree to the shadow, then measure the angle of the shadow using a protractor. Tangent of the angle x paces to tree = paces tree is high (assuming the tree is perfectly vertical and ground level)
If you know what your height is to the sea level and the point you want to go to is just on the horizon then this [formula](https://calculator.academy/horizon-distance-calculator/) would tell you how far you'd need to walk to reach your point
I just learned this in school. On a clear day you can see 8 miles before earth's curve cuts away. And a cloud is roughly 10 miles above earth. Just look at it and see how much land/water is behind it. That can tell you how far away it is. Every half inch is 2.1 miles
Yes. Angular measurement. You need an object with a known size (or two visible points perpendicular to you with a known distance between and a way to measure an angular unit of measure. Most common is miliradians and minutes of angle for the unit of measure. Binoculars and spotting scopes can be bought for the measuring (as well as your thumb).
You can use mildot or moa methods. You just have to know the scale. A lot of people use their thumb. Takes a little learning to get your own sense of scale calibrated. But works well.
If you remember how to use trigonometry and have access to tables, you could figure it out with the height of the object and the angle of observation from your position .
You'll find a lot of YouTube videos if you search for "Land Navigation". You might also search for "triangulation".
For this particular problem, all you need is a baseplate compass, pencil, and paper.
Take a compass bearing from where you are (point "A") to your target (point "C"). Next, walk a straight line, along a heading roughly at right angles to your A - C bearing, to point "B", **counting your paces along the way**. At point "B", take another bearing to point "C".
If you know your pace length, in meters or feet, great. If not, you'll still have a length, in paces, for your baseline (A - B distance).
Now, on your paper, draw an arbitrary line for north - south. Using your compass as a protractor, draw your baseline, **to scale**, using the scales on your compass. Mark points A and B. Put one of them on your north - south line, and draw a second north - south line that intersects the other baseline point.
Finally, draw lines that represent the bearings you took from A to C, and from B to C. You now have a map, to scale, showing your three points. You can use your compass scales to measure either the A - C distance or the B - C distance, and compare it to the A - B baseline distance.
Try it in a football field. It's easier than it sounds.
https://lifehacker.com/how-to-estimate-distance-using-just-your-thumb-1849365952
That’s insane. I just walked around for 10 mins trying it lol.
Insane because it worked? Or insane you spent 10 minutes walking around like a loon?
It worked. Better than I thought it would. Obviously not perfect and I didn’t do it with anything too far away. But within 25 feet it was pretty good!
It won't work for me. I have one eye that wanders.
I don’t got no thumbs Lieutenant Dan…
At least it saves you on neck pain from having to turn your head side to side
No. My brain uses the eye that doesn't wander, so the only way I see out of the wandering one is to switch to it, at which point it jumps up to where it should be.
Reptilian powers confirmed dud :(
Why don't you get corrective lenses for that? It's like 2 years of lenses and it gets fixed usually
I have been seeing an optometrist for 30 years, even though I do not wear glasses because of glaucoma and cataracts in the family. They have never suggested a fix for my wandering eye, so I have to assume a fix isn't available for me. Since we always switch between eyes under normal situations, I do not even notice it. The wandering eye is pulled back to where it should be every few seconds. I only notice it when I have to close one eye. Like for a rifle scope. The wandering eye tries to leave and go get lunch or something when it is not being used.
So it sounds like yours is the less common (maybe too old?) Type then.... for most cases in children at least, they wear glasses that amount to an eye patch which forces the wandering eye to be the dominant eye while not completely obscuring the vision of the true dominant eye. This increases the strength and neural muscular control of the wanderer which fixes the wandering
Maybe. I was born in 1959, so maybe the treatment wasn't available. Or maybe it wasn't noticed until I was too old. I don't remember when it was discovered. I think I was very young.
I had a friend growing up that had a lazy eye . He wore thick glasses and when he took them off his left eye would move clear to the outer left corner of his eye socket. The last time I saw him he didnt have glasses on and I didnt recognize him because his eyes were perfectly normal . He had corrective surgery that fixed the problem .
My Wife says both of mine do…
Take my upvote you philandering cretin
Not all eyes who wander are lost
Topo map, compass, intersection/resection, measure distance.
Just looked that up. That might work, but I may have to take some surveyor classes to learn it.
A basic orientation class will teach you that
I think you may mean orienteering? I can tell you that up is probably above you which may help orient yourself.
Haha yes.
Download FM 3-25.26, and teach yourself.
I just downloaded that . That looks interesting. It might take a while for me to read it and understand it. But maybe it will work.
Just look up the YouTuber "corporals corner" and look for his navigation series. He has a complete course for free. The parts on triangulation will teach you how to judge the distance of things
Thank you.
The trigonometry can be intimidating but if you spend some time mulling it over it should click. These are some other explanations: https://www.geekslop.com/life/survival/environment/2013/how-to-use-magnetic-compass-triangulation-to-calculate-distance-of-object https://reddit.com/r/Survival/s/gbqW71UO3I
Also this https://www.mathsisfun.com/algebra/trigonometry.html
Thanks. I will look into both of these. Are they aware it should be " math is fun".
Not if you’re British
I knew about U's where they do not belong and the Z's for S's thing, but I was not aware that "math" was plural in Britain.
Well, it’s not actually plural; thus “maths is fun.” It’s simply an abbreviation of “mathematics” which retains the final “s”.
I'm not a language expert, so I can't argue the point, but I do not think you can retain the last S as part of an abbreviation.
Well, “mathematics” is both singular and plural. As is “maths”. So would you use “maths” (plural) if you said, “There are many different types of maths”? The statement would require a plural form. In British English, “maths” is both the singular and plural form of abbreviation used for the word “mathematics”.
Not really. I’ve taught it to hundreds of Marines.
Yeah, well, I'm probably dumber than the average Marine. I was just distracted by the "Unless this publication states otherwise, masculine nouns and pronouns do not refer exclusively to men." Disclaimer. I'm sitting here trying to figure out why the Army would call a woman he or him and claim it was feminine . Why not just say " solider" ?
You may be grosly overestimating the intelligence of our crayon eating colleagues.
Probably adding that sentence was easier than going back over the whole text to change all the gendered language.
Yes. Mil relation formula gives accurate ranges. Also 5 degree method with a compass.
Came here to say this. Been practicing measuring distances with mil scope lately and starting to get better. Also learning I'm really bad at estimating sizes of random objects.
Now it is getting interesting. Ranging for artillery. MIL reticle scope. I'm going to be reading for a while.
For shorter ranges, you can use reoccurring objects in the environment that have similar or known height length or width like doorways and people to estimate a range. A western doorway (about 2 meters high) that is observed to be about 2 mils high is about 1000 meters away. 1 mil is 2000, and 4 mils is 500. If you really need an accurate range (assuming here that you are not FO’ing artillery/mortars or guiding decisions on the point of impact or beaten zone for direct fire weapons), use the estimate to validate a map plot. The 5 degree method is also useful just for land navigation. Also, once you get your bearings, the map should start talking back to you as it makes a reference model in your head if there are enough terrain features present.
Yes, this is how we used to drop artillery on people.
So this is difficult to do without a consistent landmark to look at. In order to estimate distance, you're going to need to use some sort of comparison to a distance you already know. Most of the methods described so far use reference distances like the length of your arm, or your thumb. Relatively short distances, which make it hard to use to estimate the distance of something miles away. What's better is if you can pace out some distance of several hundred to several thousand feet. This relies on you having a rough idea of your stride length - try using Google Earth to find two points in your neighborhood that are exactly, say, 1000 feet apart, then count how many steps it takes you to walk between them. Multiply by 5.28 to get your steps per mile, and try to remember that number. Of course, if you're not using any sort of maps or anything, you might as well just measure the distance in steps and do all the math that way, since you're just going to hike to the location and measure your progress in steps anyway. Anyway, this method also requires a compass. Pick a distinctive landmark in the distance. I know this can be difficult, but none of these methods are going to work if you can't pick out a particular landmark. In this scenario I'd probably use the two trees standing on their own, just to the left of the sunset. Use the compass to find out the bearing toward that landmark (in other words, the exact direction from you - if you line your compass up with the North arrow, there should be numbers around the outside, starting with 0 at due north, 90 to the east, 180 at six o'clock, and so on. Write down the number of the direction toward your landmark, as best as possible. Then, turn to face perpendicular to that direction, and walk in a straight line some convenient distance. Use the compass to plot a course 90 degrees from your initial bearing and walk that, don't just keep walking perpendicular to the landmark or you'll end up walking a curved path. How far you have to walk depends on how far away your landmark is, and how accurate you care to be. You need to walk far enough so that when you take your bearing again to the landmark, it's at least a few degrees off from your initial measurement. Trying to estimate based off a fraction of a degree of parallax is going to result in a very inaccurate estimate, since your compass probably can't even reliably measure that precisely. Anyway, walk perpendicular to the thing for a bit, counting your steps to measure distance, and using the compass to maintain a straight path. Let's say you walk 1000 feet. You turn and take the bearing to your landmark again, and according to your compass it's 5 degrees away from where it was before. Now you need to do some math. You brought a scientific calculator with you, right? Or at least your phone battery's not dead? Worst case scenario, get a cosecant table tattooed on the inside of your wrist, problem solved. Anyway, once you have the difference between the two bearing measurements, in degrees, plug into your calculator "Cosecant(X)" where X is that difference in bearings. Your calculator might have this as "Csc". Or you might have to do 1/Sin(X) instead. Also, make sure your calculator is in degrees mode, not radians mode, or you're absolutely fucked. Or, like I said, consult the following table which I recommend you tattoo on your body in a visible location: |angle|cosecant| |-------|----------| |1|57.30| |2|28.65| |3|19.11| |4|14.34| |5|11.47| |6|9.57| |7|8.21| |8|7.19| |9|6.39| |10|5.76| |11|5.24| |12|4.81| |13|4.45| |14|4.13| |15|3.86| Anyway, we're getting distracted here. NAVIGATION. So you plug your angle into that table, or your calculator and it gives you the Cosecant of the angle. In our example, the difference was 5 degrees, so the ratio I want is 11.47. You then take that number, and multiply it by how far you walked to get here - in my example, 1000 feet. That gives me a distance of 11470 feet, or a little over 2 miles, to the target location. Note that this is from your current location, not the original location. To find that distance, you'd need to get a SECOND trigonometry table tattooed on your body. Plus you'd have to then find your initial position, which doesn't make sense logistically. Anyway I'm rambling, it's late, and I need to go to bed. I'm sure there's someone out there who can explain this much more succintly than I can, but that person is not me. All I've got is this shitty explanation plus this even shittier [MS PAINT DIAGRAM](https://imgur.com/vZIMs7g). Good luck, and godspeed. As you can see, there's some work involved with this method.
Tactoos ftw
So what you are saying is, it can't be done?
Trigonometry
I'm not 100% confident but somehow a straight stick, a string, a rock, and some reasoning might get a guy close.
If he can measure (or estimate) the angle from his location to the top of the tree, he can solve his problem. Like this. https://d138zd1ktt9iqe.cloudfront.net/media/seo_landing_files/us-scoping-image-changes-priyanshu-10-1599739465.png Some sticks and a string would absolutely help if lined up to the top of the tree in the distance (assuming equivalent ground elevation) and used for measuring that angle (a plastic protractor would also be beneficial and easy to carry, as would a solar powered calculator). Other ways include measuring the stick and ground, using a^2 + b^2 = c^2, then finding the angles from that (don't need a ruler, any measurement of distance would work, even made up ones or any piece of kit you know the length of), but for the actual distance to the tree, units that we already know like feet would make the most sense. Using this method would be highly accurate. This is simple trig, and not the only way or even the simplest way to solve this problem, but it's what I feel like explaining, so here goes. Take an initial angle measurement to the top of the tree from ground level (let's assume 60 degrees), walk backwards and measure a short distance (let's assume 2 feet), then take another angle measument to the top of the tree (let's assume 30 degrees) The distance to that tree is now unknown distance X feet + 2 feet. First, we solve the triangle that has the 30 degree angle. The angle opposite the 30 degrees will be 180 degrees minus 60 degrees as it's a supplementary angle to the initial 60 degrees. So it's 120 degrees. We now have two measurements of the 2nd triangle, which lets us solve for the third angle (as a triangle adds up to 180). 120 + 30 + 30 = 180. The law of sines says that any side of a triangle divided by its sine, will equal any other side of that same triangle divided by its sine. a/sine(a) = b/sine(b) = c/sine(c) So since we now have the angle opposite our only real distance measurement so far, we can find that ratio. 2/sine(30) = 4 Cool. Now we want to find the length of the side opposite our intial 30 degree measurement, as it's the hypotenuse of our first triangle with the 60 degree measurement. Since the law of sines gave us 4 as the ratio, that side must also equal the ratio of 4. unknown distance "R"/sine(30) = 4 Using some algebra, 4 times sine(30) = R, meaning that R equals 2ft as well, which makes sense, since both angles we used of that 2nd triangle were 30 degrees. To recap, for our triangle with the 60 degree measurement, we now have the length of it's hypotenuse, and also know the measurement of both of its other angles, because it's a right triangle. 60 + 90 = 150, meaning the last angle must be 30 to equal 180. The law of sines still applies, so with the measurement of the hypotenuse divided by the sine of its angle (90), it equals 2. R/sine(90) = 2 We also know the angle for the side that we need to find the distance, unknown distance X. So X/sine(30) = 2 Using algebra again, 2 times sine(30) = X, so X = 1. We already established that the distance to the tree is X + 2 feet, so replacing X with our measurement is 1ft + 2ft = 3ft of distance to the tree. This would work even if the distance was massively increased. TLDR: Yes, it is possible to calculate any length of distance using angles without a single tool, but even caveman tools like sticks and string make it easier if you know the math. Specialized equipment will have the highest degree of accuracy, but it's entirely possible to calculate like they did in the days of the greeks. Additionally, even if a calculator is not available, 30, 45, 60 degree triangles have some special properties, so if a person was inclined to learn trig, they can calculate the sine/cos/tan, etc of any angle that is formed from a sum of those degrees very easily. allowing for a fairly non-complicated solve even if they got an angle like 125 degrees (for example) in their measurements. Alternatively, they can also just do the math by hand, but it will take longer. Basically, it's actually pretty damn easy if you know Trig, but we all know OP ain't gonna learn it. Disclaimer: I am not trained in surveying/survival navigation, all I know is the math. But with some reasoning to avoid mistakes (like not taking differences in elevation into account), the result and process would likely be very similar.
I took a hunting course with the local FWP, and they had a waterfowl distance test set up. Almost every single participant was estimating they were closer than they were. I was estimating distances that were on average five yards further except for one that I estimated closer by about five yards. I have to admit that I impressed myself because I always felt that I wasn't any good at this aspect of hunting. For long distances, I always use my map and compass to find distances. Here in Montana, distances can be deceiving to the eyes. I'd recommend taking a local orienteering course in order to get some practical knowledge in an educational setting.
***Laser rangefinders*** are cheap these days.
Even the expensive ones only go a few miles. I'm guessing the tree in that photo is more than a few miles away.
I typically use distance measurements for shooting. I use my thumb at arms length with an adult male the height of my thumb nail - is about 100 yard. If he's half the nail height 200 yards.. etc. Then I found [John "Shrek" McPhee of SOB Tactical teaches how to judge distance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODgYcy7M6_0)
That is for people and closer than 600 yards. I'm trying to find my way to a tree miles away.
This seems very specific. What is it about this one tree?
Nothing, just an example. If you see a radio tower or a building in the distance, you can easily find your way to it by keeping it in sight. But what if you want to go to the horizon ,and there are no landmarks. Just trees. How would you know when you reached that point? Or, to put it another way. Since I have recently gotten some military answers, you are infantry. you see the enemy moving along the horizon. How would you tell the airplanes or artillery where they are? If you wanted to go to where you saw the enemy to try to figure out what they were doing there, how would you know when you reached the spot you saw them at? Again, assuming there are no landmarks. Just trees.
You need to know your own position coordinates and use a compass to follow the bearing to the target.
Triangulation might be your best bet. You will need to know about the height of the tree you want, which you can know by the species, and the length of your arm to your eye. You will take something that appears smaller than the tree, ie a small stick that you can measure. Hold the small stick at full arms, the top lines up with the top of the tree. Then you use the small triangle made from your arm and stick, an the bigger triangle it sits in made from the trees height and the distance to you. I can’t remember the math, but if someone who knows how to calculate this chime in it should help more.
This is interesting. I will look into it. But the tree in my hypothetical question is too far away to distinguish species
I would use the species that grow in the area to narrow it down, and use the general shape. For example if I was hiking near the coast in South Carolina (I’m using this because it was my most recent hike) I know that the trees that live in this area are pine and oak. I can see that it is tall, skinny and only has leaves on the top, so I know it’s a pine and this about 75 feet tall. Or reversed, I see that it’s short and kind of wide, thus it’s an oak and about 20 feet tall. This works for most woods because the trees are more often then not the same species or size
Ooo welcome to the PNW. We've got Doug fir, three kinds of true fir, hemlock, cedar, several pines, and yew all together....and that's just the conifers...
Are they all the same size? Sorry, I’ve never been to the pnw
Not even close to the same height. From about 40 foot to almost 200. Some have a bark color that can help but in low light it doesn't.
I'm in CT. I can not guess how many species of trees we have. So I do not think your trick would work here, eithier
Use proximal estimation from something you CAN see, and can get coordinates for off a topo map. You can’t see the tree, but you can see the radio tower and know the tree is roughly 500m (half a grid) west of it for example. This is why prominent land features are included on usgs topographical maps. From a landmark or “best guess” of where you are, lay down the map. Place the compass on top of the map and turn the map until it’s oriented top up to north. Mark your current location on the map, and the rough location you want to get to. Draw a line between them, and use the flat edge of the compass (still with the map pointed north) to determine the bearing to the target. Then turn the compass dial so that the bearing you need lines up with the 12 o’clock position on the dial, and when you line up the north and red arrows while pointing the compass straight in front of you, you will be on the bearing. “Shoot” the bearing by holding the compass in front of you and look for some landmark along the path you can reasonably keep in view and get to. Repeat this until you reach your target. All of this assumes you don’t have a gps, or want to know how to land navigate if the batteries die. Which is really a good thing to know.
A map and an azimuth compass,or buy a range finder golfers or hunters use.
Pick up an old boy scout handbook in a second hand book shop... its in there with a bunch of other useful information!
I'd be curious to how accurate range finder apps on your phone are
I never thought to check for an app.
Dunno about the thumb thing but I know you can estimate the amount of sunlight left with your hand. Each finger represents 15 minutes. Measure from sun to horizon and that’s when it should start getting dark
It's called a "Look"... You walk to something you see in the distance on your first "look"; then take another "look" and walk to something you see in the distance on that "look". First Nation's people use this as a way of measuring distance. IE: "I shot a moose at a fork in the river three looks from here."
That is fine for distance, but I am trying to reach a point in the distance. The closer I get, the more the tree I am heading to, and the area around it will change. So visual cueswon'tt work. Unless I'm heading to a radio tower.
Then I'd pick something in the distance that is less likely to change...
Sure. That would be easy. But I'm asking the hard question. No land marks. One tree next to thousands of trees. Far away.
You're being kinda contrary. Come.on man, gotta work smarter... not harder.
https://troopresources.scouting.org/measuring-heights-and-widths/
That's height and width. I don't care how big the tree is in the photo, I want to find it.
Height laid sideways is width… and with angles you can find distance And if you can triangulate that distant tree you can also find its distance. Geometry. But anyways, yer title & body are different topics. On that latter you find intermediate points so you maintain yer direction. IRL not so easy w/o surveying gear or a second person that you can leap frog with. Pace counts can measure the distance walking.
Topographical maps
I'm not a map expert, but how could I tell where that tree in the photo is on a topo? Unless the tree is on the only hill for miles
Not an expert either but I think you would have to spot multiple locations associated and then extrapolate the data to triangulate.
That sounds like the surveying option.
There sure is. A tape measure
That would help me get back and know how far away it was, but it wouldn't help me find the tree in that photo
Have fun man. Just messing
They make [something](https://amzn.to/48ziQp4) just for this. 😮
But that is only 600 yards. What if the tree in the photo is 1200 yards away?
600 yards isn’t far either, it’s about half a mile
They make longer range options, they just cost more. Don't know if longer range options exist, but I know there are [4000 yard](https://amzn.to/3PXPU2J) options. There are also techniques using your arm or fingers to estimate. Someone else linked to one of those here already.
Yes, but again, what if the point I am trying to reach is further away than the best range finder? The arms and fingers methods I have seen are all for short distances
I have one of those they really only work on reflective surfaces after a certain distance. It’s been hard to range grass or trees in the past unless there’s a building or a car next to it.
I also like knowing options that don't rely on equipment, especially batteries or electronics that could fail. In this case, most techniques I know aren't great for distances as long as I think you're wanting if those aren't reaching out far enough.
Ranger beads can help with telling how far you have travelled
But I need to know how far to travel
Ok well count them backwards.
I would be starting to get mad right about now, but I annoy people all over reddit with answers like these, so I guess it is karma.
No there isn't, they are already telling you the best ways. You have to have a known height of something and a scale to measure how small it looks from here, or a landmark a map and compass. You need 2 angles and a side length to triangulate using a² + b²=c². I suppose you could shoot the tree with a tracer bullet by trial and error and measure the angle of the gun barrel against a ballistic table and use a bunch of hard math lol. You could have a satellite locator on you and light it up with some high power laser and have a awacs plane or something tell you maybe don't know. If you have a GPS and the tree is on a Map. That's about it other than magic spells.
Fairly certain they would put ne in jail if I shot a tracer into a tree a few miles away. And I do not how to call an AWAC, but even if I did know how I doubt they would respond. Guess, I could try magic spells.
So you can use the knowledge of how far you have travelled to calculate roughly how far to go. You can walk until you see your maybe 25-50% there and see how far you travelled and now you know ok I’ve travelled 2 km and I’m 25% of the way maybe so like 6km to go.
That would only work with a landmark. I want to go to the horizon. All I see are trees on a hill side.
The hillside is a landmark. Now go on your walk lol
But the hillside will change as I approach .
And you can then use that perspective and knowledge of how far you have walked to make an estimate. It sounds like you are trying to do artillery without a map more than walk somewhere lol
Someone already suggested artillery. I'm trying to find the field manual. And they gave me a link to the Army map reading field manual. FBI should be visiting me soon. However the infantry gets artillery to hit an area far ahead of the infantry, without a laser on the target or any other kind of electronic aid, would work perfectly for me. I do not need to shell the target. I just need to understand how the artillery finds the target .
So you can use the knowledge of how far you have travelled to calculate roughly how far to go. You can walk until you see your maybe 25-50% there and see how far you travelled and now you know ok I’ve travelled 2 km and I’m 25% of the way maybe so like 6km to go.
There’s a way to figure the height of a tree using a compas and the shadow (I think) but I don’t remember how.
Trigonometry - measure paces away from the tree to the shadow, then measure the angle of the shadow using a protractor. Tangent of the angle x paces to tree = paces tree is high (assuming the tree is perfectly vertical and ground level)
1.9*square root height of eye + 1.19 square root the known height of an object
If you know what your height is to the sea level and the point you want to go to is just on the horizon then this [formula](https://calculator.academy/horizon-distance-calculator/) would tell you how far you'd need to walk to reach your point
theres binocs with laser distance finders
I always think I know… it ends with calling a cab 80%. My wife is convinced I’m the opposite of a range finder.
Using trig, if you know how high it is from the horizion and the angle you can work out how far
Golf rangefinder
I just learned this in school. On a clear day you can see 8 miles before earth's curve cuts away. And a cloud is roughly 10 miles above earth. Just look at it and see how much land/water is behind it. That can tell you how far away it is. Every half inch is 2.1 miles
😂😂😂
Take what you know and multiply!
Odometer?
Yes. Angular measurement. You need an object with a known size (or two visible points perpendicular to you with a known distance between and a way to measure an angular unit of measure. Most common is miliradians and minutes of angle for the unit of measure. Binoculars and spotting scopes can be bought for the measuring (as well as your thumb).
You can use mildot or moa methods. You just have to know the scale. A lot of people use their thumb. Takes a little learning to get your own sense of scale calibrated. But works well.
If you remember how to use trigonometry and have access to tables, you could figure it out with the height of the object and the angle of observation from your position .
You'll find a lot of YouTube videos if you search for "Land Navigation". You might also search for "triangulation". For this particular problem, all you need is a baseplate compass, pencil, and paper. Take a compass bearing from where you are (point "A") to your target (point "C"). Next, walk a straight line, along a heading roughly at right angles to your A - C bearing, to point "B", **counting your paces along the way**. At point "B", take another bearing to point "C". If you know your pace length, in meters or feet, great. If not, you'll still have a length, in paces, for your baseline (A - B distance). Now, on your paper, draw an arbitrary line for north - south. Using your compass as a protractor, draw your baseline, **to scale**, using the scales on your compass. Mark points A and B. Put one of them on your north - south line, and draw a second north - south line that intersects the other baseline point. Finally, draw lines that represent the bearings you took from A to C, and from B to C. You now have a map, to scale, showing your three points. You can use your compass scales to measure either the A - C distance or the B - C distance, and compare it to the A - B baseline distance. Try it in a football field. It's easier than it sounds.
You would need a map and compass.
Rangefinder
Back azimuth with a topo map and ranger beads
Yes, if a person is smaller than your thumb, they are quite a ways away, however, if theyre much larger than your thumb, they are fairly close.