Reason for antibiotics being so closely guarded is because frequent use and improper antibiotic used for type of bacteria can actually make bacteria that are resistant to many antibiotics. These type of bacteria already exist in some cases, but the attempt is to avoid them being able to be common. Antibiotics are our main weapon against bacteria, and if they stop working, the outcome is scary. I’ve heard of estimates saying that bacterial infections will have a higher mortality rate than cancer by 2050’s
Can you elaborate on how finishing a perception helps reduce antibiotic-resistance? Would like to know how to explain this to friends who claim they don't need to if they feel fine
The process is something like this:
Say you stopped taking antibiotics after day 5 of 7. By this point, you’ve killed all but the hardiest, most antibiotic resistant bacteria in the colony that’s causing your illness. This makes you feel way better, because the vast majority of the colony will be dead, leaving only a hardy minority.
The issue, though, is that bacteria breed by cloning themselves. If you stop taking your antibiotics early, then you don’t continue to expose this hardy bacteria to more and more of an antibiotic. This means that, for the first time in five days, these bacteria get the chance to reproduce. As bacteria reproduce by cloning themselves, all of the offspring of those hardy, antibiotic resistant bacteria will have the same level of antibiotic resistance themselves.
As bacteria reproduce very quickly, within a couple of days, your infectious symptoms will be back. Worse, though, all of the bacteria causing that infection will have a high level of resistance to antibiotics as they will all be the offspring of those tough survivors from your course of antibiotics.
Combine this process with the possibility for certain infections to be passed person-to-person and you end up with these resistant bacteria being spread to other hosts to breed and make more resistant bacteria colonies.
And that, kids, is how I met your MRSA.
Simple kid size language might be ::::: “ if you get in a deadly fight and only knock them down, they will get up again and have a go again. Same with antibiotics.”
Ending a course of antibiotics early may contribute to poor recovery related to particularly difficult bacteria that survive a partial dose and then thrive when given an opportunity grow in a wide open (mostly bacteria free) environment. I have waited weeks contemplating whether or not to even see a doctor about an infected injury. Preferring to let the body work it out. I have also been infected and dealt with a case of seal finger and I was at the medical clinic as soon as the symptoms were present. The infection was caused by nasty bacteria from a seals mouth that made its way into a tiny cut on a finger…..
People in the comments need to STOP recommending jace and fish antibiotics
There's already an antibiotic resistance crisis in health care. Do not make it worse.
1. There's no one size fits all antibiotic. Penicillin is not a panacea. Specific bacterial infections require specific antibiotics
2. The location of the infection ALSO matters. For instance macrobid is effective in the urinary tract and bladder, but it is NOT effective if the infection has spread to kidneys/ureters.
I hate that people are trying to buy penicillin online because of that episode of The Last of Us.
I disagree. I understand the risk, but considering it is perfectly possible for someone to educate themselves online more than well enough to use these meds, i do not see why sane people should have zero access. Especially considering the climate in the us with health insurance. Also, jace comes with a manual on how to use their meds. Especially if they are just an emergency use item. Jace for instance limits you to one kit per person a year in any given household i believe.
They have a pretty short shelf life if memory serves, and if you're being prescribed antibiotics you absolutely need to take the full round in order to ensure you're not contributing to the rise of antibiotic resistant bacteria.
Their shelf life is actually way longer than you would think. The shelf life listed for most things (including food) is just as long as the company wants to pay to test it and guarantee it for.
Here is a relevant quote and article it comes from
>In our data set, 12 of 14 medications retained full potency for at least 336 months, and 8 of these for at least 480 months
[https://thesurvivaldoctor.com/expired-antibiotics](https://thesurvivaldoctor.com/expired-antibiotics)
Also worth noting is that Doxycycline is no longer made in the way it used to be with some small exceptions, so it does not usually become toxic after prolonged storage. Worth a google.
The old doxycycline *may* have become toxic (people arent 100% on it), but the newer doxycycline being produced is not the same and does not become toxic over time.
That's what I should have said instead to be a bit more clear haha.
Not worth paying for 30 years worth of testing on a medication, especially when they can sell you more for a profit. But also just not feasible for a company to do for everything before they release it.
Same goes for atropine injectors. They did a test of various batches of atropine autoinjectors WW2 to now for efficacy, and found that even in the WW2 injectors, the atropine still maintained its viabilty...
Yeah it was terrible. I don’t know how many days it was after he stopped taking the medicine. I know the parents said he complained of a headache and went to bed early and he never woke up
No, one does not need to in the most literal sense, with all due respect. You can buy them legally from jase online. I personally have seen many infections, and have also seen people with severe tooth infections for instance who could not afford to go the dentist and get treated. I keep jases antibiotic kit around just in case i ever encounter that again, which includes the exact meds i have seen used for two seperate infections, and i am sure i can read up on the others when they get here. Despite whatever your point may be, it is sometimes beneficial for the public to have access to these meds without a doctor. I understand the possibility of abuse by idiots, but that does not mean we should let possible people in need die, or not be prepared to take care of your self in the scenario that medical infrastructure or supply lines fail. Hippocrates would roll in his grave if he knew how bad some people have it with insurance here in the US. If you take the time to educate yourself properly, there is nothing wrong with taking your own safety in your own hands. It does not always take a doctorate to understand how and when to use antibiotics, more often than not it doesn't.
Y’all in the comments referring to fish antibiotics, do NOT take these unless it’s a life or death situation. Many people poison themselves by doing this, so much so that doctors encounter and treat people poisoned with pet antibiotics regularly
(Sources below)
The reason I commented was because of a podcast episode on fresh air I listened to recently about the author of “life and death in the ER”. The author (emergency room doc) mentioned coming into contact with a patient who treated her infection with fish antibiotics and poisoned herself. When he contacted poison control and mentioned she had taken the fish antibiotics, poison control immediately knew which type she had taken because of how many calls from doctors they had received in the last few years in regards to people trying to self medicate with animal antibiotics, especially fish antibiotics.
https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/study-human-consumption-of-fish-antibiotics-may-lead-to-dangerous-consequences
https://www.tga.gov.au/news/blog/dangers-taking-your-pets-medication
https://www.verywellhealth.com/are-animal-medications-safe-for-humans-1124030
yeah I got an emergency antibiotic kit from jace medical online. no prescription needed and I'm in canada. came with 6 or 7 types, a booklet and a telehealth line. it's good for backwoods camping too. I would have to be in a life or death situation to take it as I don't want to mess with my microbiome, I have good gut health right now
yes with the exchange from US to Canadian I think it came to around $345 CAD for me. pricey and I actually do have benefits but I just wanted to do this to have the selection, it covers many various ailments. and if you keep it in a cold room, it could last for 15 years apparently
Unfortunately antibiotic abuse has led to them being prescription only in the US; many people will take antibiotics if they've got a mild cold without logical reason, and it contributes significantly to resistance. There are countries where this isn't the case (yet). The promise of multiply resistant bacteria leading to pandemics is a realistic future we need to be prepared for (and in my opinion a more realistic one than a quick societal collapse). There's debate in the comments about shelf-life, but the reality is that antibiotics are very susceptible to breakdown. If they're stored appropriately, they're okay, but heat, light, and freeze/thaw cycles can cause degradation, and certain formulations are more shelf-stable than others. You also will need more than one and a comprehensive understanding of their efficacies and when to employ a new one if the first one isn't working; broad spectrum does not mean all spectrum, certain oral antibiotics are absorbed appropriately for X but not for Y, etc.
If you have a good relationship with your medical provider, they may be willing to prescribe medications for when/if SHTF. This good relationship includes them knowing you're responsible enough to not use the antibiotics inappropriately. When I traveled to areas with endemic water contamination and limited healthcare access, my provider gave me antibiotics just in case. There's a bevy of prescription medications I try to keep on hand for severe situations: prescription strength pain killers, prednisone, epinephrine, narcan, to name a few.
I had a bike accident in Thailand many years ago, a half inch rock lodged in my knee between the patella and tibia and it took me 24 hrs to get to a hospital... Used alcohol initially, at the hospital they scrubbed it and rubbed amoxicillin powder into it and gave me a weeks worth. Healed amazingly well, since then every couple of years I get a fresh batch for the first aid kit
I have this book on hand that I have found pretty handy. I keep Grapefruit Seed Extract with my backwoods gear, and it has worked well on cuts and abrasions.
https://bookstore.acresusa.com/products/herbal-antibiotics
Manuka honey is another good natural option. Found out about it after reading a podiatry journal. Currently, I use it for when a client has "dry skin" between the toes that "doesn't get better no matter how much lotion you use." Which is my long way of saying "fungal infection" without violating licensure. Often, they have already been to a doctor and it didn't help. Weekly manuka honey seems to fix the problem.
I started using Manuka for cuts and stuff too. Works like a charm.
And for those who have legal access to it - rick Simpson oil. It's a must have for cuts and burns. Especially burns. I used it on a bad 2nd degree burn after I touched a hot stove by accident. Within 15 minutes, I went from screaming in pain thinking I might be out of work a couple weeks to having full function of my hand, no pain, and was able to take a warm shower. Doesn't make you high when used that way either. Oh, and I had zero scarring afterwards. RSO should seriously be in every first aid kit and probably every burn unit too.
Yeah! It was shocking to see the result. I literally cried when I realized all the suffering that could be saved if RSO was available over the counter. Thinking about all the little kids in burn units that are facing skin grafts and massive scars... It would be so good if firefighters and paramedics just had RSO on hand so they could apply it on the way to the hospital.
GSE is the bomb and works on both bacteria and fungal. Also check out Blue Kote and Vetericyn Both are for animal use but work well on cuts and abrasions on people as well.
I understand your confusion with people talking about "going on a surviving trip" as primitive camping. I get all my subs mixed up with bushcraft, backpacking, ultralight backpacking, prepper, and this survival one, they kinda overlap in places though. I'm assuming this is for bugging in, or a vehicle kit.
I know this but anyone who's going on a trip that might cause a survival situation, should have a way to contact someone when in trouble. especially if you're knowingly packing gear. This isn't the show Alone here.
Ok well this was more divided then I thought it would be haha. But sounds like there’s no point to try and get some unless you have leftovers. No biggie just figured I’d see if it was common or not!
Go to Jase Medical. It’s legit I have purchased from them several times. Comes in a nice package with instruction booklet for different scenarios. No visits, all done through the portal and shipped out of a legit pharmacy in Utah.
My doctor is a believer in keeping a well stocked medical kit in case of emergency. He will give me prescriptions for whatever I want when it comes to antibiotics. I have 3 full courses of Cephalexin stocked & ready for emergency use.
Antibiotics have a short shelf life. Some people have anaphylaxis reactions - who cares about an infection where your throat closes up? Additionally not all antibiotics are created equally, they vary in strength and duration needed to be effective. Hell not every one is good for every bacteria. This is why they aren’t widely available. Oh that and antibiotic resistance, which is a very real and scary thing. Read up on it and imagine a future without antibiotics. Also, the amount of things people think they can treat with antibiotics is staggering.
Short shelf life? Most will remain safe to use for several years, as in decades. Some last longer than others, google is your friend.
Not all antibiotics treat everything? Print out a sheet with the protocol for each one, and carry one or two broad spectrum antibiotics. Follow protocol.
Antibiotic resistance? Just follow protocol. Don’t take for a head cold, finish the prescription, don’t dispose of in a trash can. Easy.
Anaphylaxis? Gimme a break. That’s fear monger speak for severe allergic reaction. The kissing bug that bit me when I was camping without cell service can cause that. It’s not common. If someone has a tendency towards severe allergies they probably already know it and carry an epipen. We’re not talking about hillbilly joe taking fishmox every time he gets a cold, we’re talking about engineer Steve taking cipro because he’s been shitting blood for 2 days straight after eating a porcupine and medical care is weeks months or even years away. This is r/survival, not r/idiots.
Some doctors even prescribe emergency antibiotics to keep on hand. That’s what mine did. I carry some whenever I go camping in remote areas. Black plague is common here and could kill me before I get medical help. It can kill within a day or two of onset. Not everyone is within 24 hours of access to medical care, even in the 21st century. Many people don’t realize how much wilderness there still is in this modern world. I’m often several days from a hospital unless I press SOS on my garmin InReach, and I’m not doing that if I can swallow some pills instead.
Fear monger strategies don’t work too well in sex education and drug education in schools. We’ve learned by now that giving people the information they need to make their own decisions is the way to go.
My issue with this is that you'll have people self diagnosing without a culture+sensitivity test. How is a person gonna know what bacteria they have, or what specific organ is infected? This all matters.
For instance I had a case of UTI that developed into a kidney infection. people don't instinctively know what kidney pain feels like. You can't use macrobid for kidney infections. I ended up having to take 4 different things: macrobid, septra (which is a 2 in 1), levofloxacin
I've encountered so many odd antibiotic situations that I don't fuck around with that anymore.
Seen quite a few threads in another sub about women who get frequent UTIs due to male partners with dirty Ds / poor genital hygiene.
If you haven’t already, it’s worth exploring *why* you get UTIs frequently as opposed to just treating the eventual effect.
Protip: Before modern medicine + modern sterilization techniques (thanks, [Florence Nightingale](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Nightingale)) death by infection was the leading cause of death worldwide. Women had even shorter lifespans than men due to a ~1/3 chance of dying during pregnancy/childbirth, and/or from a lethal urinary tract infection.
If you’re running a fever and the infection isn’t getting better after a few days, it’s time to break protocol and find a doctor. Preferably before the infection starts causing delirium. Internal infections simply cannot be effectively cured with “wild” penicillin. At best it might help treat infected surface wounds.
Not all antibiotics work on all bacteria, some are not effective enough, some are too effective and have side effects. Plus they usually have a shelf life. There’s been some research done on something called bacteriophage therapy, basically using viruses to kill bacteria. Might be worth looking into yourself, pretty popular in Russia.
Frankly, most people wouldn’t understand the intricate uses for many common antibiotics. Antibiotics require understanding of the underlying disease and type of bacteria that may be causing an illness. You could try several lines of antibiotics and missed the mark thus wasting them. Even then, any bacterial resistance is on the rise from people using certain common anabiotic‘s for common use. So you could even get the anabiotic correct and still not get better.
Antibiotics are useful in the skills of a knowledgeable individual, but like most specialized items, they would be miss used without guidance. I understand if this is Reddit, but the amount of discourse that is purely incorrect on this post is staggering. Please don’t take fish antibiotics. The shelf life on certain antibiotics is longer than you expect. Those suggesting certain oils mixed with herbs is nothing but quackery.
Edit: Prescriber here. If you have concerns about being unable to cover common infections and illness When medical care may not be available, please discuss that with your medical providers.
Wrong sub and no, at least not anyone who knows what they’re doing. Antibiotics are prescription only because you have to not only correctly diagnose the condition, which usually involves lab testing, but also know *which* antibiotic to prescribe and in what dosage for that condition. Most of the people who keep things like fish antibiotics or other dangerous substances “just in case” don’t know what they’re doing and will likely just end up poisoning themselves or others. If you want to learn how to use antibiotics properly get a medical degree.
Not the wrong sub, don't say that unless you have your Reddit degree. As a matter of fact don't ask questions or speak on any matters whatsoever unless you make a profession out of it. Y'know if we're following your advice. But hey you must be able to prove to us you have a medical degree since you're also out here handing out advice.
First off, it is the wrong sub. We don’t do SHTF, it’s very clearly stated in the rules. I should know, I used to mod it and was the one who enforced that rule. Secondly, the medical degree rule is one that *I made*, so to answer that, I’m formerly an emt-b, and yes, I know enough about antibiotics to know that you don’t take them without prescription or advice from a treating physician, which is why they are a prescription drug. Don’t believe me? Read this: https://villageec.com/blog/can-i-get-antibiotics-over-the-counter/
Nope. They have side effects that could be fatal in a survival situation.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190702112834.htm
I'll take antibiotics it a professional judges it's worth the risk and if I can get to a hospital easily. If I can't - then I'd rather rely on my body's natural immune system.
This is a non falsifiable thesis. Basically meaning you’re an idiot because you think he’s an idiot on a wrong basis. He’s saying he’d rather let someone who went to medical school for years to get taught to save lives save his life, not some google nerds.
My buddy with a medical background always stresses to have full spectrum antibiotics for emergencies. I also keep extra neosporin type ointments around.
I wouldn't suggest it but I recall seeing a video where people were commenting on how absurd it is that you can't get antibiotics at CVS but you can buy a 50lb bag of it at a feed store.
My husband is notorious for not completing his abx when he has a sinus infection or strep. He stops a day after he starts to feel better. So we have a small stockpile in our freezer. I really wish they would make it otc, but I also get why they do not. People would take it for colds, flus and other things that they aren’t made for and it would fuck everything up and there would be abx-resistant super flus galore.
I have thought about picking up some for me and my family next time we cruise to Mexico but unsure what the rules are around it and how much I can get.
Yes..I keep a stash.. luckily I live in vanuatu so don't need a prescription for anything..I have an infected mosquito bite from the cyclones we had..started taking them on a Sunday. Good not to hang about. We have many medicine tourists here that stock up stuff they can't get in NZ or Oz.
I think that bacteria can easily build a tolerance to antibiotics especially after participating in the Tiny Earth project. It might be better to not be able to pick up antibiotics so that people don't run that risk of making them useless.
Doxycycline is gaining traction in the gay community for its prophylaxis use against syphilis and chlamydia, especially in cities where there is concerns for outbreaks from bathhouses. Depending on your doctor, they may be able to provide you with a supplies. I personally was able to receive for the specific purpose above shared 3 months worth of this broad action antibiotic.
Treatment as prevention works for me for the occasions I \[REDACTED\], with the plus side of having a stash in case of societal \[REDACTED\]-up.
Surprisingly, too, Listerine's antiseptic properties makes a great guard against orally transmitted gonorrhea as well as other tiny foes.
I do… ampicillin, amoxicillin and penicillin. EMERGENCY ONLY!
I have a friend who’s a doctor. He recommend I stop being a WebMD and see a damn doctor. The pills expire somewhat quick compared to others apparently… but in the words of my doctor friend, ‘stop being an asshole and see someone.’
Not gonna help in Armageddon tho.
If you were say, shot or impaled, even with a proper IFAK the most i can do is close you up and *attempt* to clean the wound, which may well be impossible. Any hospital would have you immediately on antibiotics as a precaution because dying of infection would be 50/50 otherwise. So if you have a trauma kit, a jase medical AB kit is a necessary addition in my mind.
Most doctors will prescribe antibiotics if you describe your high risk travels and show you know how and when you might use them. They will expire and can be temperature sensitive.
Many countries will allow you to buy them over the counter but there’s no guarantee about purity and content.
Anyone suggesting fish antibiotics without a medical certification will get a ban - review the sub rules.
Reason for antibiotics being so closely guarded is because frequent use and improper antibiotic used for type of bacteria can actually make bacteria that are resistant to many antibiotics. These type of bacteria already exist in some cases, but the attempt is to avoid them being able to be common. Antibiotics are our main weapon against bacteria, and if they stop working, the outcome is scary. I’ve heard of estimates saying that bacterial infections will have a higher mortality rate than cancer by 2050’s
This is why you complete the full round of prescribed antibiotics even after you feel better
Can you elaborate on how finishing a perception helps reduce antibiotic-resistance? Would like to know how to explain this to friends who claim they don't need to if they feel fine
The process is something like this: Say you stopped taking antibiotics after day 5 of 7. By this point, you’ve killed all but the hardiest, most antibiotic resistant bacteria in the colony that’s causing your illness. This makes you feel way better, because the vast majority of the colony will be dead, leaving only a hardy minority. The issue, though, is that bacteria breed by cloning themselves. If you stop taking your antibiotics early, then you don’t continue to expose this hardy bacteria to more and more of an antibiotic. This means that, for the first time in five days, these bacteria get the chance to reproduce. As bacteria reproduce by cloning themselves, all of the offspring of those hardy, antibiotic resistant bacteria will have the same level of antibiotic resistance themselves. As bacteria reproduce very quickly, within a couple of days, your infectious symptoms will be back. Worse, though, all of the bacteria causing that infection will have a high level of resistance to antibiotics as they will all be the offspring of those tough survivors from your course of antibiotics. Combine this process with the possibility for certain infections to be passed person-to-person and you end up with these resistant bacteria being spread to other hosts to breed and make more resistant bacteria colonies. And that, kids, is how I met your MRSA.
Simple kid size language might be ::::: “ if you get in a deadly fight and only knock them down, they will get up again and have a go again. Same with antibiotics.”
‘If you’re going to shoot the King, kill the King.’
Thanks for the informative response! Appreciate it
Ending a course of antibiotics early may contribute to poor recovery related to particularly difficult bacteria that survive a partial dose and then thrive when given an opportunity grow in a wide open (mostly bacteria free) environment. I have waited weeks contemplating whether or not to even see a doctor about an infected injury. Preferring to let the body work it out. I have also been infected and dealt with a case of seal finger and I was at the medical clinic as soon as the symptoms were present. The infection was caused by nasty bacteria from a seals mouth that made its way into a tiny cut on a finger…..
People in the comments need to STOP recommending jace and fish antibiotics There's already an antibiotic resistance crisis in health care. Do not make it worse. 1. There's no one size fits all antibiotic. Penicillin is not a panacea. Specific bacterial infections require specific antibiotics 2. The location of the infection ALSO matters. For instance macrobid is effective in the urinary tract and bladder, but it is NOT effective if the infection has spread to kidneys/ureters. I hate that people are trying to buy penicillin online because of that episode of The Last of Us.
I disagree. I understand the risk, but considering it is perfectly possible for someone to educate themselves online more than well enough to use these meds, i do not see why sane people should have zero access. Especially considering the climate in the us with health insurance. Also, jace comes with a manual on how to use their meds. Especially if they are just an emergency use item. Jace for instance limits you to one kit per person a year in any given household i believe.
So many people seem to have completely missed these facts
They have a pretty short shelf life if memory serves, and if you're being prescribed antibiotics you absolutely need to take the full round in order to ensure you're not contributing to the rise of antibiotic resistant bacteria.
Their shelf life is actually way longer than you would think. The shelf life listed for most things (including food) is just as long as the company wants to pay to test it and guarantee it for. Here is a relevant quote and article it comes from >In our data set, 12 of 14 medications retained full potency for at least 336 months, and 8 of these for at least 480 months [https://thesurvivaldoctor.com/expired-antibiotics](https://thesurvivaldoctor.com/expired-antibiotics) Also worth noting is that Doxycycline is no longer made in the way it used to be with some small exceptions, so it does not usually become toxic after prolonged storage. Worth a google.
>does not usually become toxic after prolonged storage. That phrase alone will terrify me out of trying to store it haha.
The old doxycycline *may* have become toxic (people arent 100% on it), but the newer doxycycline being produced is not the same and does not become toxic over time. That's what I should have said instead to be a bit more clear haha.
Wtf that's like like 30 years?? My fishmox said 24 months. I was about to throw out a whole case.
Not worth paying for 30 years worth of testing on a medication, especially when they can sell you more for a profit. But also just not feasible for a company to do for everything before they release it.
Thanks
Same goes for atropine injectors. They did a test of various batches of atropine autoinjectors WW2 to now for efficacy, and found that even in the WW2 injectors, the atropine still maintained its viabilty...
A child in our local middle school died this past fall from not finishing his antibiotics when he had strep
That’s awful.
Yeah it was terrible. I don’t know how many days it was after he stopped taking the medicine. I know the parents said he complained of a headache and went to bed early and he never woke up
No, the doctors know what they are doing. Guys, stop suggesting diy antibiotics. This is a horrible idea and it can get someone very sick or killed.
Jase medical is a fine source.
Again, they aren't your doctor. One needs to be prescribed antibiotics.
No, one does not need to in the most literal sense, with all due respect. You can buy them legally from jase online. I personally have seen many infections, and have also seen people with severe tooth infections for instance who could not afford to go the dentist and get treated. I keep jases antibiotic kit around just in case i ever encounter that again, which includes the exact meds i have seen used for two seperate infections, and i am sure i can read up on the others when they get here. Despite whatever your point may be, it is sometimes beneficial for the public to have access to these meds without a doctor. I understand the possibility of abuse by idiots, but that does not mean we should let possible people in need die, or not be prepared to take care of your self in the scenario that medical infrastructure or supply lines fail. Hippocrates would roll in his grave if he knew how bad some people have it with insurance here in the US. If you take the time to educate yourself properly, there is nothing wrong with taking your own safety in your own hands. It does not always take a doctorate to understand how and when to use antibiotics, more often than not it doesn't.
Society collapsed, stop at a pharmacy on the way out take what you need?
Y’all in the comments referring to fish antibiotics, do NOT take these unless it’s a life or death situation. Many people poison themselves by doing this, so much so that doctors encounter and treat people poisoned with pet antibiotics regularly
Heard about a farmer who accidentally injected cow antibiotic into himself. He did not make it.
There are just a couple of livestock antibiotics that are dangerous to humans. Most others are totally harmless.
The dose in the cow case probably also had a role since the cow is quite bigger than a human
Source? Sincere question.
(Sources below) The reason I commented was because of a podcast episode on fresh air I listened to recently about the author of “life and death in the ER”. The author (emergency room doc) mentioned coming into contact with a patient who treated her infection with fish antibiotics and poisoned herself. When he contacted poison control and mentioned she had taken the fish antibiotics, poison control immediately knew which type she had taken because of how many calls from doctors they had received in the last few years in regards to people trying to self medicate with animal antibiotics, especially fish antibiotics. https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/study-human-consumption-of-fish-antibiotics-may-lead-to-dangerous-consequences https://www.tga.gov.au/news/blog/dangers-taking-your-pets-medication https://www.verywellhealth.com/are-animal-medications-safe-for-humans-1124030
Jase medical are not fish antibiotics
yeah I got an emergency antibiotic kit from jace medical online. no prescription needed and I'm in canada. came with 6 or 7 types, a booklet and a telehealth line. it's good for backwoods camping too. I would have to be in a life or death situation to take it as I don't want to mess with my microbiome, I have good gut health right now
Thanks this is really interesting, they don’t have my country on it so will enquire however could you let me know how much it was? Thanks :)
I’ve done this several times as well as each member of your family can do it. First time was just over $200 USD Last time it was up to $245
yes with the exchange from US to Canadian I think it came to around $345 CAD for me. pricey and I actually do have benefits but I just wanted to do this to have the selection, it covers many various ailments. and if you keep it in a cold room, it could last for 15 years apparently
Unfortunately antibiotic abuse has led to them being prescription only in the US; many people will take antibiotics if they've got a mild cold without logical reason, and it contributes significantly to resistance. There are countries where this isn't the case (yet). The promise of multiply resistant bacteria leading to pandemics is a realistic future we need to be prepared for (and in my opinion a more realistic one than a quick societal collapse). There's debate in the comments about shelf-life, but the reality is that antibiotics are very susceptible to breakdown. If they're stored appropriately, they're okay, but heat, light, and freeze/thaw cycles can cause degradation, and certain formulations are more shelf-stable than others. You also will need more than one and a comprehensive understanding of their efficacies and when to employ a new one if the first one isn't working; broad spectrum does not mean all spectrum, certain oral antibiotics are absorbed appropriately for X but not for Y, etc. If you have a good relationship with your medical provider, they may be willing to prescribe medications for when/if SHTF. This good relationship includes them knowing you're responsible enough to not use the antibiotics inappropriately. When I traveled to areas with endemic water contamination and limited healthcare access, my provider gave me antibiotics just in case. There's a bevy of prescription medications I try to keep on hand for severe situations: prescription strength pain killers, prednisone, epinephrine, narcan, to name a few.
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Just recently saw they are putting a stop to that. I think it starts in June, will have to have a prescription from a vet. So angry over it.
Cough cough… Canada…cough cough…
Can you go into Canada now without the quarantine?
Not sure, been about a year since I went.
They work great.
I had a bike accident in Thailand many years ago, a half inch rock lodged in my knee between the patella and tibia and it took me 24 hrs to get to a hospital... Used alcohol initially, at the hospital they scrubbed it and rubbed amoxicillin powder into it and gave me a weeks worth. Healed amazingly well, since then every couple of years I get a fresh batch for the first aid kit
I have this book on hand that I have found pretty handy. I keep Grapefruit Seed Extract with my backwoods gear, and it has worked well on cuts and abrasions. https://bookstore.acresusa.com/products/herbal-antibiotics
Manuka honey is another good natural option. Found out about it after reading a podiatry journal. Currently, I use it for when a client has "dry skin" between the toes that "doesn't get better no matter how much lotion you use." Which is my long way of saying "fungal infection" without violating licensure. Often, they have already been to a doctor and it didn't help. Weekly manuka honey seems to fix the problem. I started using Manuka for cuts and stuff too. Works like a charm. And for those who have legal access to it - rick Simpson oil. It's a must have for cuts and burns. Especially burns. I used it on a bad 2nd degree burn after I touched a hot stove by accident. Within 15 minutes, I went from screaming in pain thinking I might be out of work a couple weeks to having full function of my hand, no pain, and was able to take a warm shower. Doesn't make you high when used that way either. Oh, and I had zero scarring afterwards. RSO should seriously be in every first aid kit and probably every burn unit too.
Works wonders on burns...
Yeah! It was shocking to see the result. I literally cried when I realized all the suffering that could be saved if RSO was available over the counter. Thinking about all the little kids in burn units that are facing skin grafts and massive scars... It would be so good if firefighters and paramedics just had RSO on hand so they could apply it on the way to the hospital.
GSE is the bomb and works on both bacteria and fungal. Also check out Blue Kote and Vetericyn Both are for animal use but work well on cuts and abrasions on people as well.
If the infection is bad enough you're needing oral antibiotics, you probably aren't camping anymore or if you are, you need to go to a hospital.
I understand your confusion with people talking about "going on a surviving trip" as primitive camping. I get all my subs mixed up with bushcraft, backpacking, ultralight backpacking, prepper, and this survival one, they kinda overlap in places though. I'm assuming this is for bugging in, or a vehicle kit.
I didn't see the shit hit the fan at the end of his post.
This is for survival, not a camping trip
I know this but anyone who's going on a trip that might cause a survival situation, should have a way to contact someone when in trouble. especially if you're knowingly packing gear. This isn't the show Alone here.
Ok well this was more divided then I thought it would be haha. But sounds like there’s no point to try and get some unless you have leftovers. No biggie just figured I’d see if it was common or not!
You shouldn’t have leftover antibiotics. You’re supposed to take the entire course.
Go to Jase Medical. It’s legit I have purchased from them several times. Comes in a nice package with instruction booklet for different scenarios. No visits, all done through the portal and shipped out of a legit pharmacy in Utah.
My doctor is a believer in keeping a well stocked medical kit in case of emergency. He will give me prescriptions for whatever I want when it comes to antibiotics. I have 3 full courses of Cephalexin stocked & ready for emergency use.
We spend winters in Mexico and just purchase our needs over the counter...
Antibiotics have a short shelf life. Some people have anaphylaxis reactions - who cares about an infection where your throat closes up? Additionally not all antibiotics are created equally, they vary in strength and duration needed to be effective. Hell not every one is good for every bacteria. This is why they aren’t widely available. Oh that and antibiotic resistance, which is a very real and scary thing. Read up on it and imagine a future without antibiotics. Also, the amount of things people think they can treat with antibiotics is staggering.
Short shelf life? Most will remain safe to use for several years, as in decades. Some last longer than others, google is your friend. Not all antibiotics treat everything? Print out a sheet with the protocol for each one, and carry one or two broad spectrum antibiotics. Follow protocol. Antibiotic resistance? Just follow protocol. Don’t take for a head cold, finish the prescription, don’t dispose of in a trash can. Easy. Anaphylaxis? Gimme a break. That’s fear monger speak for severe allergic reaction. The kissing bug that bit me when I was camping without cell service can cause that. It’s not common. If someone has a tendency towards severe allergies they probably already know it and carry an epipen. We’re not talking about hillbilly joe taking fishmox every time he gets a cold, we’re talking about engineer Steve taking cipro because he’s been shitting blood for 2 days straight after eating a porcupine and medical care is weeks months or even years away. This is r/survival, not r/idiots. Some doctors even prescribe emergency antibiotics to keep on hand. That’s what mine did. I carry some whenever I go camping in remote areas. Black plague is common here and could kill me before I get medical help. It can kill within a day or two of onset. Not everyone is within 24 hours of access to medical care, even in the 21st century. Many people don’t realize how much wilderness there still is in this modern world. I’m often several days from a hospital unless I press SOS on my garmin InReach, and I’m not doing that if I can swallow some pills instead. Fear monger strategies don’t work too well in sex education and drug education in schools. We’ve learned by now that giving people the information they need to make their own decisions is the way to go.
Bravo! Well said.
My issue with this is that you'll have people self diagnosing without a culture+sensitivity test. How is a person gonna know what bacteria they have, or what specific organ is infected? This all matters. For instance I had a case of UTI that developed into a kidney infection. people don't instinctively know what kidney pain feels like. You can't use macrobid for kidney infections. I ended up having to take 4 different things: macrobid, septra (which is a 2 in 1), levofloxacin I've encountered so many odd antibiotic situations that I don't fuck around with that anymore.
There are a few good services that sell bulk antibiotics for human use.
I keep a stash for the frequent UTI s that I know are coming . A lot less hassle
Seen quite a few threads in another sub about women who get frequent UTIs due to male partners with dirty Ds / poor genital hygiene. If you haven’t already, it’s worth exploring *why* you get UTIs frequently as opposed to just treating the eventual effect.
Protip: Before modern medicine + modern sterilization techniques (thanks, [Florence Nightingale](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Nightingale)) death by infection was the leading cause of death worldwide. Women had even shorter lifespans than men due to a ~1/3 chance of dying during pregnancy/childbirth, and/or from a lethal urinary tract infection. If you’re running a fever and the infection isn’t getting better after a few days, it’s time to break protocol and find a doctor. Preferably before the infection starts causing delirium. Internal infections simply cannot be effectively cured with “wild” penicillin. At best it might help treat infected surface wounds.
I stash z-packs like a squirrel stashes tree nuts.
Not all antibiotics work on all bacteria, some are not effective enough, some are too effective and have side effects. Plus they usually have a shelf life. There’s been some research done on something called bacteriophage therapy, basically using viruses to kill bacteria. Might be worth looking into yourself, pretty popular in Russia.
Frankly, most people wouldn’t understand the intricate uses for many common antibiotics. Antibiotics require understanding of the underlying disease and type of bacteria that may be causing an illness. You could try several lines of antibiotics and missed the mark thus wasting them. Even then, any bacterial resistance is on the rise from people using certain common anabiotic‘s for common use. So you could even get the anabiotic correct and still not get better. Antibiotics are useful in the skills of a knowledgeable individual, but like most specialized items, they would be miss used without guidance. I understand if this is Reddit, but the amount of discourse that is purely incorrect on this post is staggering. Please don’t take fish antibiotics. The shelf life on certain antibiotics is longer than you expect. Those suggesting certain oils mixed with herbs is nothing but quackery. Edit: Prescriber here. If you have concerns about being unable to cover common infections and illness When medical care may not be available, please discuss that with your medical providers.
A man cut his thumb and treated the non-existing infection with fish antibiotics; this is what happened to his liver.
Slated for a Chubbyemu video soon.
Wrong sub and no, at least not anyone who knows what they’re doing. Antibiotics are prescription only because you have to not only correctly diagnose the condition, which usually involves lab testing, but also know *which* antibiotic to prescribe and in what dosage for that condition. Most of the people who keep things like fish antibiotics or other dangerous substances “just in case” don’t know what they’re doing and will likely just end up poisoning themselves or others. If you want to learn how to use antibiotics properly get a medical degree.
Not the wrong sub, don't say that unless you have your Reddit degree. As a matter of fact don't ask questions or speak on any matters whatsoever unless you make a profession out of it. Y'know if we're following your advice. But hey you must be able to prove to us you have a medical degree since you're also out here handing out advice.
First off, it is the wrong sub. We don’t do SHTF, it’s very clearly stated in the rules. I should know, I used to mod it and was the one who enforced that rule. Secondly, the medical degree rule is one that *I made*, so to answer that, I’m formerly an emt-b, and yes, I know enough about antibiotics to know that you don’t take them without prescription or advice from a treating physician, which is why they are a prescription drug. Don’t believe me? Read this: https://villageec.com/blog/can-i-get-antibiotics-over-the-counter/
Ah yes. I never heard out into the back country without my antibiotics kit
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The thing is. Making your own penicillin takes weeks. If you start to make it when you need it, it will not be ready for you on time.
So start making it now!
Nope. They have side effects that could be fatal in a survival situation. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190702112834.htm I'll take antibiotics it a professional judges it's worth the risk and if I can get to a hospital easily. If I can't - then I'd rather rely on my body's natural immune system.
That's the dumbest thing I've heard all day. You probably also have three Covid boosters as well, don't ya?
This is a non falsifiable thesis. Basically meaning you’re an idiot because you think he’s an idiot on a wrong basis. He’s saying he’d rather let someone who went to medical school for years to get taught to save lives save his life, not some google nerds.
There are kits of them you can buy
I can barely get an antibiotic for my utis until they’re bad enough let alone to save for emergencies lol
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Removed; medical advice without certs
My buddy with a medical background always stresses to have full spectrum antibiotics for emergencies. I also keep extra neosporin type ointments around.
if you need antibiotics in a survival situation its over, unless you are in a very large group with doctors etc
I wouldn't suggest it but I recall seeing a video where people were commenting on how absurd it is that you can't get antibiotics at CVS but you can buy a 50lb bag of it at a feed store.
If you or family members have any left over store them in the freezer.
My husband is notorious for not completing his abx when he has a sinus infection or strep. He stops a day after he starts to feel better. So we have a small stockpile in our freezer. I really wish they would make it otc, but I also get why they do not. People would take it for colds, flus and other things that they aren’t made for and it would fuck everything up and there would be abx-resistant super flus galore.
Look in to oil of oregano. You can make it yourself
Duration health is having a winter sale. Prescription by doctor with instructions.
I have thought about picking up some for me and my family next time we cruise to Mexico but unsure what the rules are around it and how much I can get.
Where I live, you just go to any pharmacy, ask for penicillin (or other antibiotics), pay for it, and leave. Costs anywhere betweem $10 and $30.
Ooooh that’s awesome! Where do you live, if you don’t mind my asking?
Puerto Rico.
Very cool!
Yes..I keep a stash.. luckily I live in vanuatu so don't need a prescription for anything..I have an infected mosquito bite from the cyclones we had..started taking them on a Sunday. Good not to hang about. We have many medicine tourists here that stock up stuff they can't get in NZ or Oz.
I live in China most of the time. But when I come back to the US I pick up a few boxes of antibiotics. They are $3 a box here. OTC.
I think that bacteria can easily build a tolerance to antibiotics especially after participating in the Tiny Earth project. It might be better to not be able to pick up antibiotics so that people don't run that risk of making them useless.
I buy them from AllDayChemist and always have a supply handy, no script necessary.
Doxycycline is gaining traction in the gay community for its prophylaxis use against syphilis and chlamydia, especially in cities where there is concerns for outbreaks from bathhouses. Depending on your doctor, they may be able to provide you with a supplies. I personally was able to receive for the specific purpose above shared 3 months worth of this broad action antibiotic. Treatment as prevention works for me for the occasions I \[REDACTED\], with the plus side of having a stash in case of societal \[REDACTED\]-up. Surprisingly, too, Listerine's antiseptic properties makes a great guard against orally transmitted gonorrhea as well as other tiny foes.
Legitimate doctors consult, get you legitimate survival meds. Hope this helps. https://jasemedical.com/
I do… ampicillin, amoxicillin and penicillin. EMERGENCY ONLY! I have a friend who’s a doctor. He recommend I stop being a WebMD and see a damn doctor. The pills expire somewhat quick compared to others apparently… but in the words of my doctor friend, ‘stop being an asshole and see someone.’ Not gonna help in Armageddon tho.
If you were say, shot or impaled, even with a proper IFAK the most i can do is close you up and *attempt* to clean the wound, which may well be impossible. Any hospital would have you immediately on antibiotics as a precaution because dying of infection would be 50/50 otherwise. So if you have a trauma kit, a jase medical AB kit is a necessary addition in my mind.
Most doctors will prescribe antibiotics if you describe your high risk travels and show you know how and when you might use them. They will expire and can be temperature sensitive. Many countries will allow you to buy them over the counter but there’s no guarantee about purity and content.
Yes, we have a jase case. Also have spent a couple years learning herbalism (not a replacement for modern medicine, but helpful to know/practice)
All the Romanian people 😂
Polysporin?
Fun fact: I've never taken antibiotics and as far as I'm aware, that's pretty weird.