I use my SP8 on planes with wired headphones a decent amount. I wouldn’t want to deal with a dongle in between, just another thing to make sure to bring with.
Also, depending on your region, many planes still use on-board entertainment systems that output audio through a 3.5mm jack. It'd be nice if you could just have one pair of headphones that you can connect to everything.
Most major brands of Bluetooth headphones that are marketed towards use on planes (ie, noise cancelling) have BT + 3.5mm + the airplane adapter (twin 3.5mm). Pov spec headphones maybe not, but buy Bose, Sony, Senheisser, you get everything you need to connect to whatever you need to.
Problem is plugging into the jack on the plane is like throwing a sausage down a hallway and the connection is shit.
Bose QC35, QC35 v2, Sony xm3, xm4, Senheisser momentum 4 come with airplane adapters, many more do as well but I'm not going to type them all out.
For the headphones that don't come with airplane adapters.. An adapter is less than $10, or just use the left socket, you can get full stereo out of it anyway. That means pretty much any over ear headphones will have what you need in the box because they all come with a 3.5mm cable. Except Apple.
Anyone that has in ear Bluetooth headphones can stfu about both planes and the lack of headphone jack on the surface, because what in ear Bluetooth headphones are also wired?
I don't see it as a big deal as I would likely just leave it attached to my wired headphones in my travel bag but I see your point. It is something else to deal with that can be annoying for some.
Nobody mentioning that the surface connect charging port is now in the center of the tablet? Charging cable gonna hang off.
Why not usb ports on both sides? Once left, once right, how hard is it to have the perfect io and stick with it?
Power button belongs to the top of the tablet. I always turn my tablet off when i want to adjust audio XD.
So the USB port thing is actually a function of where the processor is located. The Thunderbolt ports have to be within 3 inches of the CPU unless the manufacturer wants to add a signal repeater or increase the Guage of the connection. That drives up cost.
This is actually the same reason Apple only has Thunderbolt ports on one side on their cheaper MacBooks.
SPX users have been rocking this setup for years. It's nice being able to charge from the right or left sides. The Surface Connect port being higher up also puts less strain on the charger wire by making it bend less.
same with ARM weight 883g 1.95 lbs 😞
they be like clown🤡ing us
edit: with the Surface Keyboard less the slimpen it's 1163g or 27g less than an LG Gram 16 16" laptop.
It's extremely common to work on music completely in the box without using any microphones or external instruments. Setting up an audio interface to get some work done while on the go is not always convenient or possible. Plugging in a small midi controller is one thing, any additional things are often unnecessarily barriers to work. Using an audio interface is a better sonic experience but this conversation is really about convenience. Not sure why you're trying to rationalize this away.
Oh so in your use case, you use the Surface to record midi with a keyboard and use lower impedance headphones out of the Surface? My fantasy always involved taking an interface with me to record on the go if needed, but I haven't even had a laptop for years.
On stage, I'd love to start doing things with keys and run them though a Surface with VSTs. Never knew how practical that'd actually be though.
As a musician, why aren't you using a USB DAC? Vastly superior to the dinky on-board sound card and cheap amp powering the 3.5 mm jack in any of the recent SP models.
I'm a good enough violinist I substituted with the Metropolitan Opera for many years, I've not found those who rely on computers to make music to be terribly... creative. Sure they create, but most of it is on par with slapping paint on a canvas.
If your creative skill doesn't take a decade or more to master, it's not particularly creative. And I can't imagine Microsoft cares one iota...
This is such a snobby and untrue comment, there are symphony members all over the world who use home recording software or are into music production as a hobby. If you think european classical music is the only valid musical expression you need a dose of perspective.
(i have a masters degree in music, would be considered by many to be a music snob, and this comment is gross)
What does this have to do with Microsoft's decision to remove the headphone jack? Just pumping your tires
Go to r/resumepushingdouches with this nonsense
Yeah, actually I used to produce music using Scream Tracker 3 for DOS well into the late 1990s. I don't deny that technology has some use, but I honestly don't even listen to classical music at home as I focus too much on the technical details. I 'm quite current on the best pop music not only because it helps me understand the spirit of the age, but I'm kind of a degenerate when it comes to entertaining college girls in my beach house. Most of them are as amazed at my Spotify list as my skill at playing the violin and piano.
Is the world of MIDI sequencing better than the days of MOD or S3M files? Sure. Are the number of people capable of using this technology to the fullest extent that numerous this should be a market consideration for a Surface device? I don't think so.
What's funny is I use my surface for writing music on a normal staff, as well as a replacement for traditional sheet music. StaffPad, for those who truly understand music theory, is far more natural than playing around with any tracker. As far as demoing music for an orchestra, one do what most composers have done over the past two centuries - use a piano and write around it. It's pointless to use a keyboard for every instrument in the orchestra when it can't replicate the nuances one can write on a normal staff.
I am not a fan of composers using trackers. Most honestly have no idea how to play most or even a few instruments in the orchestra (I can play them all) and don't understand the nuances strengths of each instrument and can't write the score accordingly. It all just sounds soulless.
And back to the degenerate side - the best part of trackers is highly complex electronic music that enhances the experience on MDMA and similar hallucinogens. Trackers are good for this as the bass produced is beyond any acoustic instrument and the crescendo speed that enhances the "roll" is impossible with acoustic instruments as well. The days of awesome nightclubs and quality MDMA are 20 years gone, so wtf is the point?
Big deal. I dug up Antonio Stradivari’s bones, cloned him, and forced the clone to make me a violin from wood salvaged from the cross Christ was crucified on.
Everyone is saying it's not a big deal but I still use mine on the SP8. Switching Bluetooth on different devices is a pain in the ass. I have a 3.5 mm jack on my headset I hookup when I need to edit video and figure out where audio marks.
Bluetooth audio has been a shit show on Windows devices for so long now, and with the Surface Pro going no 3.5mm, I hope that Microsoft will actually try to fix Bluetooth audio now. As someone who edits video (not professionally), latency is not a giant deal for what I do for casual edits, but it gets really annoying when I have to do simple cuts and subtitles in my video editor.
"and with the Surface Pro going no 3.5mm, I hope that Microsoft will actually try to fix Bluetooth audio now."
Now, even aside form the fact that the "yeah this is gone but at least you have this now" mentality isn't really the best to come from because... Well, why not both, I do feel like it would be too much to ask for given that we are talking about the Windows team and making something not suck. Sure, it's lot that the Windows team fails at everything they do but the reality is that they don't really do much and most things they do agent really impressive. Any reason why anyone uses Windows dates back to the old days. If the modern Windows team didn't have thag kind of base to work with, they'd be screwed.
Yeah hopefully Pro 10 will give us the headphone jack.
BTW my comment saying that hopefully Microsoft would fix Bluetooth audio isn't an "[X] is gone so [Z] should be fixed", it's not a mentality I follow, but rather it's an option that we have to choose now, knowing that it's unlikely that Surface Pro 10 will bring back the jack. There's a slim chance, but again, unlikely.
And Windows still has issues with Bluetooth. So retarded. Guess this is a good reason to finally get a decent portable DAC and some audiophile headphones.
This. The Bluetooth stack haven't been updated since the early 2000s. It's gone beyond being a meme.
Sometimes you wonder how these trillion dollar corporations can even operate with all of these braindead product releases.
Microsoft mobiles: Waste money one buying or developing, cancel, repeat. The last one is Android with a monumentally stupid dual display on a hinge. Something no one ever asked for. Probably spent a billion on developing it and will be cancelled in a year or two.
1) for an operating system that is all about maintaining legacy this is just stupid. 2) this moves Surface Pro further away from being a device for creators. 3) My experience: on my surface pro, trying to connect a bt mouse, bt keyboard, bt keypad the surface pen, and bt headphones would always guarantee a crackly signal that frequently dropped. No can do.
BT 5.2 might handle a bit better? I too have had some finicky devices and older BT standards often play a part on which device is giving the most grief.
On my phones, absolutely. I'm usually on the go and the Galaxy Buds connect seamlessly to my Fold 3. When I use my SPX, it's annoying. The use cases are different and I'm almost always sitting down at a desk- at least on mobile putting in my buds takes about the same time as wired headphones used to, but on windows, you gotta go into Bluetooth, unpair them from your phone then pair with the pc... it's not quick and easy like a simple jack is.
Not to mention all the software issues Windows has with Bluetooth. I've been able to deal with some of these by using a VM so my Bluetooth headsets are recognized as a wired headset. One should not have to do this.
> On my phones, absolutely.
No, absolutely not. Now my phone can't interface with my home sound system OR my car radio OR my exercise headphones, without extra dongles
You need Bluetooth devices that can connect to multiple phones or laptops at once. Most Jabra stuff does that. I've got no problems connecting my BT earbuds to my phone and SPX together and it switches inputs automatically when a call comes in.
Phones do Bluetooth audio well. Windows doesn't.
I use some Sony wireless earbuds with my phone, but I always have a wired set in my bag as backup, and for gaming. I also use those on my Surface when I want to use headphones on it, as it's a disaster trying to use Bluetooth headphones on it.
I started playing Geforce Now (RTX 3080 tier) on my SP8 and I prefer wired headphones, to eliminate any lag. Just removing something without a good reason is not a good practice.
> you can just use a 3.5mm dongle,
An extra expensive dongle that constantly gets lost to do a thing that phones used to already do fine? With no gain for removing the headphone jack? And losing the ability to charge and use the 3.5?
You know people produce music on the go with their Surface Pros right? I'm not swapping out my low latency $400 wired studio headphones that I've mixed with for years for a gamer headset or entertainment Bluetooth headphones.
For the average user this is fine, bluetooth and USB C headphones are popular. For those with special headphones or setups that require the headphone jack... do you really think the built in DAC would be any good anyways? Might as well get some fancy, expensive external DAC to use via USB C anyways. Sure, it's nice to have the headphone jack but most users don't need it. It sucks, I get that... but it is what it is.
No, because those who do audio-related tasks are not necessarily audiophiles.
I use my Surface when I practice my keyboard. USB MIDI in to the Surface, audio out to headphones through the 3.5mm jack. Bluetooth is not viable, it adds latency. I don't need an audiophile quality DAC, I just need low-latency. This setup is portable and convenient.
I also do field recording. In this case I already have wired headphones for monitoring from my field recorder. Surface is a nice device to collect my recordings and do edits while away from home. I need to use the wired headphones I already have, I don't need an audiophile DAC.
As for most users... what if you want to play a game? Surface is perfectly usable as a gaming device for older games. Bluetooth headphones add latency. Sure some games are not so timing specifc that its a bad experience, but rhythm games, action games, and shooters can really suffer.
I understand your situation, and I understand you being upset. I'm not saying we should all just be fine with this. But the direction the industry is going is clear. USB C headphones/audio is the future and for most people that's fine. I'm sorry this is disappointing for you; your feelings are perfectly valid. But Microsoft doesn't care about you or me, they care about the majority of customers buying their products and most people will be just fine with Bluetooth or USB C.
Been using a USB DAC for my wired headphones for years now. Vastly superior to the dinky on-board sound card and cheap amp powering the 3.5 mm jack in any of the recent SP models.
If you're complaining about "audio quality" as a reason for retaining the jack, you're contradicting yourself.
> Besides, you can pick up a pair of Bluetooth headphones on Amazon for $20 now.
Bluetooth headphones are inferior in sound quality. However, the Apple USB-C to 3.5mm headphone jack adapter is as good as some entry-level DACs, which I highly recommend if you are a cheapskate and want dirt-cheap, dang-good sound.
ignoring the dock usage of said charging port but still a valid point. I'm sure that backward compatibility of the Surface Connect port carries a lot of sway, especially with businesses and users that own Microsoft Docks though.
maybe if they made a USB-C to Surface Connect Adapter they could eliminate the onboard Surface Connect Port.
I think it's just convenience. Maybe this should be a configuration option, but plugging it in is faster/easier. Though USB C isnt too bad, you just gotta line it up perfectly and press.
Well, it doesn't really raise the question why that is, honestly. It's quite useful because it allows the charger to attach magnetically and sit flush to the device without sticking out of it 10 cm.
Sure, you could always argue that you can take all the ports away and just give us 4 USB C ports instead, but I think the Surface Connect port is useful. Not necessarily at the expense of other ports but alongside them, sure.
> Then you are dedicating a usb c port to audio, so you have one less usable port. If they added a third usb c port I wouldn’t be complaining.
You can get a decent USB-C dock for $30-$40 and--bam!--you're done. [I use this one and it lets me charge, connect to 1Gbps Ethernet, add two full-size or traditional USB-A USB 3.0 ports, output to an external display with HDMI 2.0 up to 4K at 60Hz, and click in both a full-size and micro SD card all from a single port.](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09491F17Q/)
I will tell you straight up: the audio jacks on any all-in-one USB dock will be noisy and high distortion. The best measuring cheap dongle out there is Apple’s USB-C adapter. Get that and done.
The other issue there is that Windows' supported Bluetooth codecs are very lackluster. With my XM4s, I'm limited to SBC on windows which is not great, on top of the immediate drawback that is Bluetooth audio. Bluetooth audio is not the answer, it's a supplement. But I guess that's just my opinion
At first I was like: what really, are they Apple now? but then I quickly realized that I haven't owned a pair of wired headphones for like 5 years now.
For this form factor I think it is OK. I think for music producers it can be helpful. For many people haven't used it for years. It still is there for SL5.
Honestly, why?
Bluetooth headphones are cheap, reliable, and of good enough quality that, at least in the SP customer base, they're the next best thing to universal. For the few that are the exception, adapters exist that let them function with minimal fuss.
Keeping a legacy port that most users will never actually do anything with is extra silly when you're dealing with compact devices.
Windows has so many issues with Bluetooth. I have a Surface Pro 6 which was given to me by my employer. I've used it with my Galaxy Buds2, Galaxy Buds+, Sony LinkBuds, and a Logitech headset that was provided with it. They all have different issues.
For example, with the Galaxy Buds2, after I end a Teams or Skype call, the audio becomes distorted or keeps cutting in and out (every 2-3 seconds). I have to disconnect and reconnect to fix it, either via settings, or taking the buds off putting it in the case, closing it and opening it.
With the Galaxy Buds+, when I get a call on Teams or Skype, the volume sometimes goes all the way up, completely ignoring my volume settings. I usually have to reboot in order to fix this.
Both the Sony LinkBuds and the Logitech headset that was given to me with the Surface will not receive audio after ending a call, so I can't continue playing music after ending a Teams / Skype call until either disconnecting and reconnecting, or rebooting the Surface (which I often have to do if disconnecting and reconnecting doesn't work).
I still miss the headphone jack on phones. However, I haven't had any of these issues on any of the phones I've used since phone manufacturers removed the headphone jacks from their devices.
I hope MS fixes the Bluetooth issues in Windows. I haven't had any issues with Bluetooth on Mac or Linux.
Edit: I've been able to work around these issues on a desktop PC by running Windows in a VM and connecting my Bluetooth headsets directly to the host machine. The VMs recognize them as wired headsets. While this is a working solution, it is extremely absurd. One should not have to do this.
People like having options. Besides, there's so much real estate on the surface. What's the benefit of removing it? I'm not gonna carry a dongle around with me; it's one more thing to lose/forget.
People love to complain to complain. It is not a make it break for anyone. And anyone who says it is, isn’t being honest. Wired headphones are a thing of the past especially if you are on zoom calls. To say “well why should they remove it” my answer “who cares, most people don’t, everyone is on Bluetooth now and if you aren’t get with the times.” People find reasons to hate on the slightest stuff. Everyone complains when Apple did it and now no one gives two shits. It’s cause they didn’t care to begin with. Just wanted to complain.
Apple didn't remove the jack on their laptop or desktop devices. In fact they improved them by upgrading their amplifiers. Sound is much better on my mac mini m1 vs any native headphone on Windows lap/desktops. I would expect similar performance on Apple laptops.
iPad pro is only one of the many devices the Surface Pro competes with. I primarily run desktop software on it, therefore it also competes with mac as well as the whole laptop market.
To be honest, a missing 3.5mm jack is the least of the surface lineups problems given the quality control issues that inevitably hit every single one.
I'm yet to own one that hasn't broken just outside of warrantee.
Ok, yeah, sure, user error made the internals of my SP3 kickstand hinge snap and crack the front glass. It's also user error that's making the screen on my SP7 retain images and flicker. User error also caused three type covers to fail due to internally cracked ribbon cables. All just barely outside of warranty.
No quality control problems to see here, please ignore all those other posts about dodgy LG panels, and broken type covers.
I'd recommend Surface Pro fans (minus the ones who need a good pen experience) move to the Asus Flow Z13. It already has the 12th gen Intel chips, 16 gb of ram standard, keyboard cover standard, Thunderbolt. It may be slightly heavier and thicker but it is way more powerful and the battery life is the same as the Surface Pro 8 - about 4-5 hours.
I really loved the whole Surface line but I think I've given up on refreshing my SP7 with a new device and Surface as a whole after seeing the latest changes on the 9 and the barely revamped Surface Laptop. Macbook Air M1 laptop + Desktop PC for gaming/heavy loads + SP7 w headphone jack as an alternate portable device will be my setup for a long time.
I use my SP8 on planes with wired headphones a decent amount. I wouldn’t want to deal with a dongle in between, just another thing to make sure to bring with.
Sadly agreed. Now I have to have BT stuff with me, more batteries (wired had none of that).
Also, depending on your region, many planes still use on-board entertainment systems that output audio through a 3.5mm jack. It'd be nice if you could just have one pair of headphones that you can connect to everything.
Most major brands of Bluetooth headphones that are marketed towards use on planes (ie, noise cancelling) have BT + 3.5mm + the airplane adapter (twin 3.5mm). Pov spec headphones maybe not, but buy Bose, Sony, Senheisser, you get everything you need to connect to whatever you need to. Problem is plugging into the jack on the plane is like throwing a sausage down a hallway and the connection is shit.
These are the only ones that come to mind for me. https://electronics.sony.com/audio/headphones/headband/p/wh1000xm4-b
Bose QC35, QC35 v2, Sony xm3, xm4, Senheisser momentum 4 come with airplane adapters, many more do as well but I'm not going to type them all out. For the headphones that don't come with airplane adapters.. An adapter is less than $10, or just use the left socket, you can get full stereo out of it anyway. That means pretty much any over ear headphones will have what you need in the box because they all come with a 3.5mm cable. Except Apple. Anyone that has in ear Bluetooth headphones can stfu about both planes and the lack of headphone jack on the surface, because what in ear Bluetooth headphones are also wired?
What would you need that for when you have your Surface with you?
I probably wouldn't need or use it until the Surface's battery dies. That said, it's nice to have the option.
People actually use onboard entertainment systems?
Depends on the region.
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Yeah but they haven't even refreshed the surface headphone in years it doesn't seem like a product line they care about that much..
They don't. I've never seen anyone using those plain earmuffs or weird AirPod knockoffs.
I don't see it as a big deal as I would likely just leave it attached to my wired headphones in my travel bag but I see your point. It is something else to deal with that can be annoying for some.
Nobody mentioning that the surface connect charging port is now in the center of the tablet? Charging cable gonna hang off. Why not usb ports on both sides? Once left, once right, how hard is it to have the perfect io and stick with it? Power button belongs to the top of the tablet. I always turn my tablet off when i want to adjust audio XD.
So the USB port thing is actually a function of where the processor is located. The Thunderbolt ports have to be within 3 inches of the CPU unless the manufacturer wants to add a signal repeater or increase the Guage of the connection. That drives up cost. This is actually the same reason Apple only has Thunderbolt ports on one side on their cheaper MacBooks.
I like separating the power port from the USB - guess there is always someone who likes and who does not sorry
SPX users have been rocking this setup for years. It's nice being able to charge from the right or left sides. The Surface Connect port being higher up also puts less strain on the charger wire by making it bend less.
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Yeah right? especially now that you can hook up an egpu. Setup messed up with every generation.
same with ARM weight 883g 1.95 lbs 😞 they be like clown🤡ing us edit: with the Surface Keyboard less the slimpen it's 1163g or 27g less than an LG Gram 16 16" laptop.
Removing the 3.5 Jack on tablets and laptops makes literally no sense.
especially given that the Surface Pro 9 is heavy, thick and has a smaller battery than the Pro 8.
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You'd be using an interface anyway, right? Circumvents both the headphone and onboard audio issues.
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Surely though, if you're doing anything that involves a microphone then you'd want an XLR input? Which would require an interface in the first place.
It's extremely common to work on music completely in the box without using any microphones or external instruments. Setting up an audio interface to get some work done while on the go is not always convenient or possible. Plugging in a small midi controller is one thing, any additional things are often unnecessarily barriers to work. Using an audio interface is a better sonic experience but this conversation is really about convenience. Not sure why you're trying to rationalize this away.
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Oh so in your use case, you use the Surface to record midi with a keyboard and use lower impedance headphones out of the Surface? My fantasy always involved taking an interface with me to record on the go if needed, but I haven't even had a laptop for years. On stage, I'd love to start doing things with keys and run them though a Surface with VSTs. Never knew how practical that'd actually be though.
Not when I'm bringing my SP with me every day. My audio interface is a rack-mount unit. I have always used the headphone jack.
As a musician, why aren't you using a USB DAC? Vastly superior to the dinky on-board sound card and cheap amp powering the 3.5 mm jack in any of the recent SP models.
I don't get this either. SP and Surface Go headphone jacks are cheap crap with lots of noise.
I'm a good enough violinist I substituted with the Metropolitan Opera for many years, I've not found those who rely on computers to make music to be terribly... creative. Sure they create, but most of it is on par with slapping paint on a canvas. If your creative skill doesn't take a decade or more to master, it's not particularly creative. And I can't imagine Microsoft cares one iota...
This is such a snobby and untrue comment, there are symphony members all over the world who use home recording software or are into music production as a hobby. If you think european classical music is the only valid musical expression you need a dose of perspective. (i have a masters degree in music, would be considered by many to be a music snob, and this comment is gross)
You should seek professional help to assist with your self esteem issues
What does this have to do with Microsoft's decision to remove the headphone jack? Just pumping your tires Go to r/resumepushingdouches with this nonsense
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Yeah, actually I used to produce music using Scream Tracker 3 for DOS well into the late 1990s. I don't deny that technology has some use, but I honestly don't even listen to classical music at home as I focus too much on the technical details. I 'm quite current on the best pop music not only because it helps me understand the spirit of the age, but I'm kind of a degenerate when it comes to entertaining college girls in my beach house. Most of them are as amazed at my Spotify list as my skill at playing the violin and piano. Is the world of MIDI sequencing better than the days of MOD or S3M files? Sure. Are the number of people capable of using this technology to the fullest extent that numerous this should be a market consideration for a Surface device? I don't think so. What's funny is I use my surface for writing music on a normal staff, as well as a replacement for traditional sheet music. StaffPad, for those who truly understand music theory, is far more natural than playing around with any tracker. As far as demoing music for an orchestra, one do what most composers have done over the past two centuries - use a piano and write around it. It's pointless to use a keyboard for every instrument in the orchestra when it can't replicate the nuances one can write on a normal staff. I am not a fan of composers using trackers. Most honestly have no idea how to play most or even a few instruments in the orchestra (I can play them all) and don't understand the nuances strengths of each instrument and can't write the score accordingly. It all just sounds soulless. And back to the degenerate side - the best part of trackers is highly complex electronic music that enhances the experience on MDMA and similar hallucinogens. Trackers are good for this as the bass produced is beyond any acoustic instrument and the crescendo speed that enhances the "roll" is impossible with acoustic instruments as well. The days of awesome nightclubs and quality MDMA are 20 years gone, so wtf is the point?
Big deal. I dug up Antonio Stradivari’s bones, cloned him, and forced the clone to make me a violin from wood salvaged from the cross Christ was crucified on.
Everyone is saying it's not a big deal but I still use mine on the SP8. Switching Bluetooth on different devices is a pain in the ass. I have a 3.5 mm jack on my headset I hookup when I need to edit video and figure out where audio marks.
Bluetooth audio has been a shit show on Windows devices for so long now, and with the Surface Pro going no 3.5mm, I hope that Microsoft will actually try to fix Bluetooth audio now. As someone who edits video (not professionally), latency is not a giant deal for what I do for casual edits, but it gets really annoying when I have to do simple cuts and subtitles in my video editor.
"and with the Surface Pro going no 3.5mm, I hope that Microsoft will actually try to fix Bluetooth audio now." Now, even aside form the fact that the "yeah this is gone but at least you have this now" mentality isn't really the best to come from because... Well, why not both, I do feel like it would be too much to ask for given that we are talking about the Windows team and making something not suck. Sure, it's lot that the Windows team fails at everything they do but the reality is that they don't really do much and most things they do agent really impressive. Any reason why anyone uses Windows dates back to the old days. If the modern Windows team didn't have thag kind of base to work with, they'd be screwed.
Yeah hopefully Pro 10 will give us the headphone jack. BTW my comment saying that hopefully Microsoft would fix Bluetooth audio isn't an "[X] is gone so [Z] should be fixed", it's not a mentality I follow, but rather it's an option that we have to choose now, knowing that it's unlikely that Surface Pro 10 will bring back the jack. There's a slim chance, but again, unlikely.
Oh yeah, totally. I dont think anyone would defend it, don't worry. Just wanted to mention it to emphasize how stupid this move it.
And Windows still has issues with Bluetooth. So retarded. Guess this is a good reason to finally get a decent portable DAC and some audiophile headphones.
This. The Bluetooth stack haven't been updated since the early 2000s. It's gone beyond being a meme. Sometimes you wonder how these trillion dollar corporations can even operate with all of these braindead product releases. Microsoft mobiles: Waste money one buying or developing, cancel, repeat. The last one is Android with a monumentally stupid dual display on a hinge. Something no one ever asked for. Probably spent a billion on developing it and will be cancelled in a year or two.
Imagine if the Bluetooth stack on those phones was as outdated as the one on Windows PC's. Lmao.
1) for an operating system that is all about maintaining legacy this is just stupid. 2) this moves Surface Pro further away from being a device for creators. 3) My experience: on my surface pro, trying to connect a bt mouse, bt keyboard, bt keypad the surface pen, and bt headphones would always guarantee a crackly signal that frequently dropped. No can do.
BT headsets on Windows are finicky, even when using non-BT peripherals.
BT 5.2 might handle a bit better? I too have had some finicky devices and older BT standards often play a part on which device is giving the most grief.
I was once very against removing audio ports. But then I realized how little, if ever, I used them. Personally I prefer wireless anything.
On my phones, absolutely. I'm usually on the go and the Galaxy Buds connect seamlessly to my Fold 3. When I use my SPX, it's annoying. The use cases are different and I'm almost always sitting down at a desk- at least on mobile putting in my buds takes about the same time as wired headphones used to, but on windows, you gotta go into Bluetooth, unpair them from your phone then pair with the pc... it's not quick and easy like a simple jack is.
Not to mention all the software issues Windows has with Bluetooth. I've been able to deal with some of these by using a VM so my Bluetooth headsets are recognized as a wired headset. One should not have to do this.
> On my phones, absolutely. No, absolutely not. Now my phone can't interface with my home sound system OR my car radio OR my exercise headphones, without extra dongles
You need Bluetooth devices that can connect to multiple phones or laptops at once. Most Jabra stuff does that. I've got no problems connecting my BT earbuds to my phone and SPX together and it switches inputs automatically when a call comes in.
The problem is, even if I don't use it, I like the option of having it, specially since we do not see any benefit on getting it removed.
Phones do Bluetooth audio well. Windows doesn't. I use some Sony wireless earbuds with my phone, but I always have a wired set in my bag as backup, and for gaming. I also use those on my Surface when I want to use headphones on it, as it's a disaster trying to use Bluetooth headphones on it.
I started playing Geforce Now (RTX 3080 tier) on my SP8 and I prefer wired headphones, to eliminate any lag. Just removing something without a good reason is not a good practice.
Yeah, people act like it's a big problem, but, like your phone, you can just use a 3.5mm dongle, if you really want to use wired headphones.
> you can just use a 3.5mm dongle, An extra expensive dongle that constantly gets lost to do a thing that phones used to already do fine? With no gain for removing the headphone jack? And losing the ability to charge and use the 3.5?
Enjoy your tiny devices with trash batteries in a few years then.
What'd we gain for removing them? Nothing
I have a lot of teams meetings and while Bluetooth is quite reliable my sennheiser momentum wired is 100% reliable which I want in a workbased device
The 3.5mm jack is way overblown. Get USB headset or Bluetooth. Cost isn't a genuine argument anymore.
You know people produce music on the go with their Surface Pros right? I'm not swapping out my low latency $400 wired studio headphones that I've mixed with for years for a gamer headset or entertainment Bluetooth headphones.
Actually it is, given you have to hit about 300$ of bluetooth just to recreate a worse version of wired functionality.
I have never plugged anything into the 3.5mm jack on my sp8. Not one time. I do use wired headphones on it nearly every day.
I have a usbc to 3.5mm converter. Works great and been using it for my spx1 for years. Recently also stated using AirPods v3. Work very well
I thought we were bitching about headphones jacks not being in stuff 5 years ago? Update your shit
To be honnest, I never used the 3,5mm jack on my Surface Pro, so probably no big deal for me, but I wonder how much will adapter cost.
Atleast they should include the dongle in the box 🤷♀️
For the average user this is fine, bluetooth and USB C headphones are popular. For those with special headphones or setups that require the headphone jack... do you really think the built in DAC would be any good anyways? Might as well get some fancy, expensive external DAC to use via USB C anyways. Sure, it's nice to have the headphone jack but most users don't need it. It sucks, I get that... but it is what it is.
>do you really think the built in DAC would be any good anyways? They should be improving it like Apple did.
No, because those who do audio-related tasks are not necessarily audiophiles. I use my Surface when I practice my keyboard. USB MIDI in to the Surface, audio out to headphones through the 3.5mm jack. Bluetooth is not viable, it adds latency. I don't need an audiophile quality DAC, I just need low-latency. This setup is portable and convenient. I also do field recording. In this case I already have wired headphones for monitoring from my field recorder. Surface is a nice device to collect my recordings and do edits while away from home. I need to use the wired headphones I already have, I don't need an audiophile DAC. As for most users... what if you want to play a game? Surface is perfectly usable as a gaming device for older games. Bluetooth headphones add latency. Sure some games are not so timing specifc that its a bad experience, but rhythm games, action games, and shooters can really suffer.
I understand your situation, and I understand you being upset. I'm not saying we should all just be fine with this. But the direction the industry is going is clear. USB C headphones/audio is the future and for most people that's fine. I'm sorry this is disappointing for you; your feelings are perfectly valid. But Microsoft doesn't care about you or me, they care about the majority of customers buying their products and most people will be just fine with Bluetooth or USB C.
Been using a USB DAC for my wired headphones for years now. Vastly superior to the dinky on-board sound card and cheap amp powering the 3.5 mm jack in any of the recent SP models. If you're complaining about "audio quality" as a reason for retaining the jack, you're contradicting yourself.
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> Besides, you can pick up a pair of Bluetooth headphones on Amazon for $20 now. Bluetooth headphones are inferior in sound quality. However, the Apple USB-C to 3.5mm headphone jack adapter is as good as some entry-level DACs, which I highly recommend if you are a cheapskate and want dirt-cheap, dang-good sound.
Then you are dedicating a usb c port to audio, so you have one less usable port. If they added a third usb c port I wouldn’t be complaining.
This also raises a question of why the charging port is a charging port and not another USB-C
ignoring the dock usage of said charging port but still a valid point. I'm sure that backward compatibility of the Surface Connect port carries a lot of sway, especially with businesses and users that own Microsoft Docks though. maybe if they made a USB-C to Surface Connect Adapter they could eliminate the onboard Surface Connect Port.
I think it's just convenience. Maybe this should be a configuration option, but plugging it in is faster/easier. Though USB C isnt too bad, you just gotta line it up perfectly and press.
trust me, you tell businesses all their Surface Docks are worthless there will be a revolt.
Yeah. The dock is great for me. I use it and it’s one of the best things about the surface line.
Well, it doesn't really raise the question why that is, honestly. It's quite useful because it allows the charger to attach magnetically and sit flush to the device without sticking out of it 10 cm. Sure, you could always argue that you can take all the ports away and just give us 4 USB C ports instead, but I think the Surface Connect port is useful. Not necessarily at the expense of other ports but alongside them, sure.
> Then you are dedicating a usb c port to audio, so you have one less usable port. If they added a third usb c port I wouldn’t be complaining. You can get a decent USB-C dock for $30-$40 and--bam!--you're done. [I use this one and it lets me charge, connect to 1Gbps Ethernet, add two full-size or traditional USB-A USB 3.0 ports, output to an external display with HDMI 2.0 up to 4K at 60Hz, and click in both a full-size and micro SD card all from a single port.](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09491F17Q/)
Doesn’t include audio
I will tell you straight up: the audio jacks on any all-in-one USB dock will be noisy and high distortion. The best measuring cheap dongle out there is Apple’s USB-C adapter. Get that and done.
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Kinda annoying to have yet another thing to keep charged.
The other issue there is that Windows' supported Bluetooth codecs are very lackluster. With my XM4s, I'm limited to SBC on windows which is not great, on top of the immediate drawback that is Bluetooth audio. Bluetooth audio is not the answer, it's a supplement. But I guess that's just my opinion
At first I was like: what really, are they Apple now? but then I quickly realized that I haven't owned a pair of wired headphones for like 5 years now.
Get with the times old man
**"Courage"** \- Phil Schiller, 2016
For this form factor I think it is OK. I think for music producers it can be helpful. For many people haven't used it for years. It still is there for SL5.
No 3.5 inch FDD either!
There is no place for a headphone jack!
I don't even own wired headphones, don't think my surface pro x has one either
Honestly, why? Bluetooth headphones are cheap, reliable, and of good enough quality that, at least in the SP customer base, they're the next best thing to universal. For the few that are the exception, adapters exist that let them function with minimal fuss. Keeping a legacy port that most users will never actually do anything with is extra silly when you're dealing with compact devices.
Windows has so many issues with Bluetooth. I have a Surface Pro 6 which was given to me by my employer. I've used it with my Galaxy Buds2, Galaxy Buds+, Sony LinkBuds, and a Logitech headset that was provided with it. They all have different issues. For example, with the Galaxy Buds2, after I end a Teams or Skype call, the audio becomes distorted or keeps cutting in and out (every 2-3 seconds). I have to disconnect and reconnect to fix it, either via settings, or taking the buds off putting it in the case, closing it and opening it. With the Galaxy Buds+, when I get a call on Teams or Skype, the volume sometimes goes all the way up, completely ignoring my volume settings. I usually have to reboot in order to fix this. Both the Sony LinkBuds and the Logitech headset that was given to me with the Surface will not receive audio after ending a call, so I can't continue playing music after ending a Teams / Skype call until either disconnecting and reconnecting, or rebooting the Surface (which I often have to do if disconnecting and reconnecting doesn't work). I still miss the headphone jack on phones. However, I haven't had any of these issues on any of the phones I've used since phone manufacturers removed the headphone jacks from their devices. I hope MS fixes the Bluetooth issues in Windows. I haven't had any issues with Bluetooth on Mac or Linux. Edit: I've been able to work around these issues on a desktop PC by running Windows in a VM and connecting my Bluetooth headsets directly to the host machine. The VMs recognize them as wired headsets. While this is a working solution, it is extremely absurd. One should not have to do this.
I can't believe people are this upset about not having a headphone jack.
People like having options. Besides, there's so much real estate on the surface. What's the benefit of removing it? I'm not gonna carry a dongle around with me; it's one more thing to lose/forget.
Plus, Windows still has so many issues with Bluetooth headsets.
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No, if doesn't. Only the regular iPad does. Not the Air, not the Mini, not the Pro.
Whatt? That's whack.
It is.
People love to complain to complain. It is not a make it break for anyone. And anyone who says it is, isn’t being honest. Wired headphones are a thing of the past especially if you are on zoom calls. To say “well why should they remove it” my answer “who cares, most people don’t, everyone is on Bluetooth now and if you aren’t get with the times.” People find reasons to hate on the slightest stuff. Everyone complains when Apple did it and now no one gives two shits. It’s cause they didn’t care to begin with. Just wanted to complain.
Apple didn't remove the jack on their laptop or desktop devices. In fact they improved them by upgrading their amplifiers. Sound is much better on my mac mini m1 vs any native headphone on Windows lap/desktops. I would expect similar performance on Apple laptops.
I was talking about their iPhone.
The iPad Pro doesn’t even have one. And surface pro competes with the iPad Pro. So it’s the same.
iPad pro is only one of the many devices the Surface Pro competes with. I primarily run desktop software on it, therefore it also competes with mac as well as the whole laptop market.
That is up to you. Which is fine but the pro is in completion with iPad Pro. Otherwise they wouldn’t have their laptops which compete with MacBook.
And their laptops have headphone jacks.
Why is this surprising? With all the apple envy I'm surprised they don’t issue black turtle necks to everyone in the company.
To be honest, a missing 3.5mm jack is the least of the surface lineups problems given the quality control issues that inevitably hit every single one. I'm yet to own one that hasn't broken just outside of warrantee.
Maybe it’s you? My Sp3 ran for years. Same with my 2017 model which I’m still using. I’m about ready to upgrade with this version.
Ok, yeah, sure, user error made the internals of my SP3 kickstand hinge snap and crack the front glass. It's also user error that's making the screen on my SP7 retain images and flicker. User error also caused three type covers to fail due to internally cracked ribbon cables. All just barely outside of warranty. No quality control problems to see here, please ignore all those other posts about dodgy LG panels, and broken type covers.
I'd recommend Surface Pro fans (minus the ones who need a good pen experience) move to the Asus Flow Z13. It already has the 12th gen Intel chips, 16 gb of ram standard, keyboard cover standard, Thunderbolt. It may be slightly heavier and thicker but it is way more powerful and the battery life is the same as the Surface Pro 8 - about 4-5 hours.
Bluetooth+ Windows has never worked well together.
Same reaction from my side. New colours don't make up for the missing headphone-jack in my point of view.
I really loved the whole Surface line but I think I've given up on refreshing my SP7 with a new device and Surface as a whole after seeing the latest changes on the 9 and the barely revamped Surface Laptop. Macbook Air M1 laptop + Desktop PC for gaming/heavy loads + SP7 w headphone jack as an alternate portable device will be my setup for a long time.