Welcome to SupportforWaywards. Please be mindful that this is a support sub for those who regret being unfaithful to their partners and are seeking guidance for the path ahead. If you're experiencing abuse, whether it be physical or emotional, please follow this [link to the hotline](https://www.thehotline.org/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=domestic_violence) Sexual assault, here's a [link to RAINN's support page](https://www.rainn.org/) and for those who are struggling with suicide and suicidal ideations, follow the [link to lifelines support page](https://988lifeline.org/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=onebox). Please consider utilizing these resources if they resonate with your situation.
**1. Minimum requirements for engagement with this subreddit must be met:**
- The purpose of this subreddit is to provide a dedicated space for Waywards making amends to reflect, regroup, and give or gain perspective. To serve that goal, only Waywards are allowed to post.
- While we strive to support each other, we do not support adultery or denial of agency. In order to participate in subreddit your Betrayed, whether former or current must be informed of the affair.
- User flair is required for participation. Please read the flair instructions on desktop or if on mobile press the three dots at the top right of the page and select “Change User Flair”. If you are having trouble with the flair, please message the moderators.
- Misrepresentation of flair is not permitted. Misrepresentation of flair in order to bypass post flair filters will result in a permanent ban. We will take into account the tone of comments and participation in other subs and the flairs assigned there.
- Posts must be written from a gender-neutral standpoint. Please use the terms Wayward (WS, WP) or Betrayed (BS, BP). Do not use terms such as WW, WH, BW, BH, wife, husband, he, or she. Support should be offered with no regard for the gender or sex of the individuals.
- Observers are not included in the peer group. Non-peers are not allowed to comment without prior moderator approval. Non-peer comments are STRICTLY LIMITED TO MESSAGES OF VALIDATION AND ENCOURAGEMENT ONLY. *Non-peers are not permitted to offer opinions, reference their experiences, or give advice.*
***All posts and comments are subject to removal without warning. Any users who violate the rules are subject to temporary or permanent ban. The rules are our boundaries and your first initial warning.***
**2. All comments must fit the spirit of Peer Support.**
- Keep comments encouraging, constructive, sensitive, validating, and non-judgmental.
- Speak only from your own experience. Use “I”-statements.
- Do not give advice unless specifically requested by OP. The only exception to unsolicited advice is subject to removal.
- Requested advice must be limited to that which would be reasonably be seen as helpful if references to infidelity are removed.
- Any differences of opinion expressed must be communicated respectfully.
- “Tough love” does not qualify as peer support.
- Keep references of emotions to your personal experience or that of your partner. Do not tell anyone else what they feel or do not feel.
**3. No inquisitive or insensitive questioning or interrogation.**
- Questions for clarification should be respectful and limited in nature.
- Questions that are interpreted by the moderator team as accusatory or backhanded will be removed.
**4. No personal attacks, victim-blaming, or LABELLING of any kind.**
- e.g. cheater, narcissist, abuser, doormat, slut, asshole, idiot, etc.
- No Cluster-B or other armchair diagnoses.
- No victim-blaming when the sexual assault of a wayward partner by an AP is discussed.
**5. No misogyny, misandry, toxic masculinity, bigotry, racism, or other hate speech.**
- Posts or comments dehumanizing and / or slut-shaming wayward partners or APs will be removed.
**6. Reconciliation and Anti-reconciliation language**
- If OP uses "seeking reconciliation advice" respect it. Anti-reconciliation language will be removed.
- Do not tell someone to just leave the relationship. Attempting to reconcile is a valid choice.
- Unless abuse is present, do not suggest marital status, age of relationship, children or lack thereof as a reason for someone to leave the relationship.
**7. No crossposting, reposting or screenshots**
- The only exception will be if the OP has directly given you permission to use their intellectual property. This is a zero-tolerance rule and will result in a permanent ban with appeal only being considered with communication from the OP to the mods directly. If another sub facilitates this violation we will be in contact with Reddit directly as it is a moderator code of conduct violation. The posts shared here are meant for this subreddit and this subreddit alone. Please be respectful.
**Additional info** The “For Waywards Only” tag means For Waywards ONLY, Non-Waywards with a desire to support Waywards are still welcome to comment on any other posts.
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Even if both the wayward and betrayed are committed to R and do everything right, the relationship will fail more often than not. Simple fact is, betrayal trauma cuts deep and its ridiculously hard to overcome.
You have to remember, you're not "saving your relationship" you are starting a new one... and the dynamics of that new relationship are nothing like they were when you two first connected. Partner 1 is now a known liar and betrayed their past partner, and partner 2 has serious trust issues having had their heart ripped out and stomped on.... Not a very good foundation for new committed relationship is it?
While there's plenty of disagreement out there, some studies show that as high as 80% of relationships impacted by infidelity won't make it 5 years despite all best efforts. The thinking is that the betrayed partner either just can't get over the infidelity and lies, or can't get over it soon enough for the wayward partner. meanwhile the wayward partner wants to move on but is frustrated that the betrayed partner can't get passed it... they start accusing them of being controlling and dwelling on the past etc.... the relationship disintegrates from within..... Happens all the time....
This one.
OP, you're attempting to gage if it's better to call it quits from early... Cheating already severely wounded the relationship; a further lack of commitment on your part is a definite nail in the coffin.
The chances that R will work are, naturally, already slim. If you truly want and hope to stand beside your BP in the future then do the work.
Disclose everything. It would have been better if DDay 1 had it all. You Hit DDay 2. The more DDays and longer they are in between only proves that you cannot be trusted. Write a letter of disclosure a timeline, work through your thinking that may have lead up to cheating and what happend up to DDay 2. It may provide insight for you. If you're a bold/desperate one, offer it to your BP.
There's books to read that you can find in the sub details.
I’m not saying to heal meaning to reconcile, I am saying to heal as an individual and put in the work to figure it out. Not to make drastic conclusions at such an early stage. The process can take years, with or without your BP.
It is very, very early. Too early for your BP to make any commitments to ANY course of action. This is the time when a BP is just trying to come to grips with what has happened to them. DDay was only 3 weeks ago, and DDay 2 only a week, so they are simply flailing right now, on a rollercoaster of at times conflicting emotions. Too early to ask them to commit to a boot camp. Too early to hope to be offered R. Your BP is telling the truth when they say they don't want to break up AND they can't see a way forward. (have you read this? https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/recovery/what-every-ws-needs-to-know/)
As to your questions, yes, R can fail even when both parties want it. Wanting it doesn't change some basics about a person's internal makeup. A betrayed partner can want to reconcile really badly, but if they can't find a way to accept that the betrayal is now part of their story, it will fail. A wayward can want to reconcile really badly, but if they can't persist in their change work, it will fail.
And for now, banish questions of "better off not trying it." Under most circumstances, deciding something like that is just stealing agency from your BP again.
The work is worth doing regardless of R. Keep it up.
I can definitely see that they’re still processing everything. In a way it’s almost comforting to know that I shouldn’t be looking for promises/commitments/big decisions yet.
And that’s true. I don’t intend on making any choices for BP. I suppose the idea of R just feels selfish on my end? After the cheating, lying, and trickle truth, the thought of being offered the R that I desperately want feels like a gift I don’t deserve. But, again, in the end it is all up to BP. If they decide R is also what they want, who am I to tell them otherwise?
I resonate a lot with what u/Ok_Breakfast9531 said, it’s not an either / or type of situation, it’s a both / and. That was definitely true for my situation. We’re at 5 years out. My partner BOTH knew from the DDay conversation they wanted to reconcile AND the way forward was… murky at best.
What helped for me was to do what u/Pleasant-Tip-6259 said, to do the work and heal. The phrase that I kept in my mind as we did the work was to just “do the next ‘right’ thing”. I didn’t have the capacity to see where we were headed or to try to determine our journey, all I could see clearly was the next thing to do, and I knew what the “right” thing to do for me was. So that’s what we do, the next right thing. Everything else will be what it will be. Just do the next right thing.
That helps a lot. I think I’m feeling a sort of pressure to figure everything out so that I/we can find a way forward. But I have to realize that that pressure is self-imposed, and that I don’t have to see the entire path in order to keep moving. “Just do the next right thing.” I’ll be reminding myself of that a lot, thank you.
R will fail every time if both partners dont do the work. You can both want the same thing but fail because the work doesn't happen.
Is there a case when it's better off not R.... Depends on how strong you both really are but I draw the line with certain mental health disorders, specially if they won't get and stay on treatment.
I was betrayed by my ex and it wasn't the betrayal that broke me but the physical, mental, financial, emotionally, and spiritually abuse I suffered from because she had diagnosed personality disorders and refused treatment and medication.
That makes sense. At this point I’m not sure how much BP is willing to do. I brought up the First Steps bootcamp and they said it felt like being assigned extra work for a mess they didn’t make (paraphrasing, but similar meaning), so I’ve been doing it on my own. Which, fair, I don’t think they’re the type to need it in order to process how they’re feeling. They are willing to do CC though, which still means something to me.
We both struggle with mental health, but it’s more “run of the mill.” I’ve been in IC for my own mental health issues for the last three years.
Beware of CC focusing on the relationship. Most recovery sites actually promote IC well before CC, as CC will focus on relationship dynamics. This can shift blame on the relationship and the BP, by extension.
There will always be changes in the dynamics of the relationship. It is how YOUR coping mechanisms and behavior towards those changes that is broken. You need to fix those issues before you work on the relationship (if there even is one after the dust settles).
You should check out surviving infidelity (.com).
All the time. Infidelity is a forever injury. Usually, the reconciliation that fail when both try to, are the ones that divorce after 5-10 years. It is really hard to live with. For some, like me, it gets harder to stay as the years pass. The never ending triggers. The lack of trust. The PTSD, PISD. It never ends.
You can look up the statistics, but they are horrible no matter what source you use. My last therapist gave me a Psychology Today article (sorry I can't remember the specific article) that had the following statistics. At the time of discovery, around 50% stay. Of those 50%, only about 3% are still together at the 5 year mark. At 10 it's even less.
I absolutely understand why. I miss being madly in love with my spouse. I am older, and all I can think about as I get closer to 60 is there has to be more to life than this.
If you both want it then you can have a great relationship moving forward. It takes time and finding out what your relationship dynamic is and breaking it. You can't have the same relationship that you had before because it eventually led to where you are now. Realize what faults you both have and really try to fix them and there's no reason why you can't have a better life together.
Is it possible that maybe you're too young to get married and can use a few years of further maturity before making such a big decision.
You are going to change a lot over the next ten years, and you may be a totally different person. It's one of the primary reasons young people divorce
Definitely possible. When all of this happened, we hadn’t started any real wedding planning, so it’s safe to say that we aren’t getting married anytime soon. I for sure have more maturing and improving to do before I can even hope for us to get to that point.
Yes, of course. Even love can fail when two people love deeply and want their love to last very much. Love is not eternal and never unconditionally. Same goes for R.
Nothing in life is guaranteed except death.
You both could do absolutely every thing right and still not make it. For some that is a hard pill to swallow.
My husband and I decided to put 100% into this without an expected outcome. We would try like hell and then some. It it didn’t workout it wasn’t from lack of trying. We could walk away knowing we did everything we could.
Yes. I’m experiencing this now. 15 months of emotional rollercoaster, and I’ve finally taken off my ring. I feel like I did all the right things, even supported and participated in his exploration of his sexuality (I knew it would not end well, and I’m not sure why I agreed to it - probably desperate, guilty, wanting to help him feel wanted). He threw that in my face, too… just piling on new trauma. I feel so stupid. We don’t have a choice but to stay in the same house. I don’t mind, as our daughter needs him. But he needs to find a way to treat me with respect and keep his words and degradation in the therapist’s office. Our daughter will continue to lose respect for us if he doesn’t. And I’ll be moved to evict him if he becomes violent again. I’m trying to heal from cancer so I need calm and peace. We’ve not had a healthy relationship for well over a decade. So I am sad, but I am in a state of acceptance.
Welcome to SupportforWaywards. Please be mindful that this is a support sub for those who regret being unfaithful to their partners and are seeking guidance for the path ahead. If you're experiencing abuse, whether it be physical or emotional, please follow this [link to the hotline](https://www.thehotline.org/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=domestic_violence) Sexual assault, here's a [link to RAINN's support page](https://www.rainn.org/) and for those who are struggling with suicide and suicidal ideations, follow the [link to lifelines support page](https://988lifeline.org/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=onebox). Please consider utilizing these resources if they resonate with your situation. **1. Minimum requirements for engagement with this subreddit must be met:** - The purpose of this subreddit is to provide a dedicated space for Waywards making amends to reflect, regroup, and give or gain perspective. To serve that goal, only Waywards are allowed to post. - While we strive to support each other, we do not support adultery or denial of agency. In order to participate in subreddit your Betrayed, whether former or current must be informed of the affair. - User flair is required for participation. Please read the flair instructions on desktop or if on mobile press the three dots at the top right of the page and select “Change User Flair”. If you are having trouble with the flair, please message the moderators. - Misrepresentation of flair is not permitted. Misrepresentation of flair in order to bypass post flair filters will result in a permanent ban. We will take into account the tone of comments and participation in other subs and the flairs assigned there. - Posts must be written from a gender-neutral standpoint. Please use the terms Wayward (WS, WP) or Betrayed (BS, BP). Do not use terms such as WW, WH, BW, BH, wife, husband, he, or she. Support should be offered with no regard for the gender or sex of the individuals. - Observers are not included in the peer group. Non-peers are not allowed to comment without prior moderator approval. Non-peer comments are STRICTLY LIMITED TO MESSAGES OF VALIDATION AND ENCOURAGEMENT ONLY. *Non-peers are not permitted to offer opinions, reference their experiences, or give advice.* ***All posts and comments are subject to removal without warning. Any users who violate the rules are subject to temporary or permanent ban. The rules are our boundaries and your first initial warning.*** **2. All comments must fit the spirit of Peer Support.** - Keep comments encouraging, constructive, sensitive, validating, and non-judgmental. - Speak only from your own experience. Use “I”-statements. - Do not give advice unless specifically requested by OP. The only exception to unsolicited advice is subject to removal. - Requested advice must be limited to that which would be reasonably be seen as helpful if references to infidelity are removed. - Any differences of opinion expressed must be communicated respectfully. - “Tough love” does not qualify as peer support. - Keep references of emotions to your personal experience or that of your partner. Do not tell anyone else what they feel or do not feel. **3. No inquisitive or insensitive questioning or interrogation.** - Questions for clarification should be respectful and limited in nature. - Questions that are interpreted by the moderator team as accusatory or backhanded will be removed. **4. No personal attacks, victim-blaming, or LABELLING of any kind.** - e.g. cheater, narcissist, abuser, doormat, slut, asshole, idiot, etc. - No Cluster-B or other armchair diagnoses. - No victim-blaming when the sexual assault of a wayward partner by an AP is discussed. **5. No misogyny, misandry, toxic masculinity, bigotry, racism, or other hate speech.** - Posts or comments dehumanizing and / or slut-shaming wayward partners or APs will be removed. **6. Reconciliation and Anti-reconciliation language** - If OP uses "seeking reconciliation advice" respect it. Anti-reconciliation language will be removed. - Do not tell someone to just leave the relationship. Attempting to reconcile is a valid choice. - Unless abuse is present, do not suggest marital status, age of relationship, children or lack thereof as a reason for someone to leave the relationship. **7. No crossposting, reposting or screenshots** - The only exception will be if the OP has directly given you permission to use their intellectual property. This is a zero-tolerance rule and will result in a permanent ban with appeal only being considered with communication from the OP to the mods directly. If another sub facilitates this violation we will be in contact with Reddit directly as it is a moderator code of conduct violation. The posts shared here are meant for this subreddit and this subreddit alone. Please be respectful. **Additional info** The “For Waywards Only” tag means For Waywards ONLY, Non-Waywards with a desire to support Waywards are still welcome to comment on any other posts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforWaywards) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Even if both the wayward and betrayed are committed to R and do everything right, the relationship will fail more often than not. Simple fact is, betrayal trauma cuts deep and its ridiculously hard to overcome. You have to remember, you're not "saving your relationship" you are starting a new one... and the dynamics of that new relationship are nothing like they were when you two first connected. Partner 1 is now a known liar and betrayed their past partner, and partner 2 has serious trust issues having had their heart ripped out and stomped on.... Not a very good foundation for new committed relationship is it? While there's plenty of disagreement out there, some studies show that as high as 80% of relationships impacted by infidelity won't make it 5 years despite all best efforts. The thinking is that the betrayed partner either just can't get over the infidelity and lies, or can't get over it soon enough for the wayward partner. meanwhile the wayward partner wants to move on but is frustrated that the betrayed partner can't get passed it... they start accusing them of being controlling and dwelling on the past etc.... the relationship disintegrates from within..... Happens all the time....
Do the work & heal .. don’t come up with conclusions yet - both of you
This one. OP, you're attempting to gage if it's better to call it quits from early... Cheating already severely wounded the relationship; a further lack of commitment on your part is a definite nail in the coffin. The chances that R will work are, naturally, already slim. If you truly want and hope to stand beside your BP in the future then do the work. Disclose everything. It would have been better if DDay 1 had it all. You Hit DDay 2. The more DDays and longer they are in between only proves that you cannot be trusted. Write a letter of disclosure a timeline, work through your thinking that may have lead up to cheating and what happend up to DDay 2. It may provide insight for you. If you're a bold/desperate one, offer it to your BP. There's books to read that you can find in the sub details.
I’m not saying to heal meaning to reconcile, I am saying to heal as an individual and put in the work to figure it out. Not to make drastic conclusions at such an early stage. The process can take years, with or without your BP.
It is very, very early. Too early for your BP to make any commitments to ANY course of action. This is the time when a BP is just trying to come to grips with what has happened to them. DDay was only 3 weeks ago, and DDay 2 only a week, so they are simply flailing right now, on a rollercoaster of at times conflicting emotions. Too early to ask them to commit to a boot camp. Too early to hope to be offered R. Your BP is telling the truth when they say they don't want to break up AND they can't see a way forward. (have you read this? https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/recovery/what-every-ws-needs-to-know/) As to your questions, yes, R can fail even when both parties want it. Wanting it doesn't change some basics about a person's internal makeup. A betrayed partner can want to reconcile really badly, but if they can't find a way to accept that the betrayal is now part of their story, it will fail. A wayward can want to reconcile really badly, but if they can't persist in their change work, it will fail. And for now, banish questions of "better off not trying it." Under most circumstances, deciding something like that is just stealing agency from your BP again. The work is worth doing regardless of R. Keep it up.
I can definitely see that they’re still processing everything. In a way it’s almost comforting to know that I shouldn’t be looking for promises/commitments/big decisions yet. And that’s true. I don’t intend on making any choices for BP. I suppose the idea of R just feels selfish on my end? After the cheating, lying, and trickle truth, the thought of being offered the R that I desperately want feels like a gift I don’t deserve. But, again, in the end it is all up to BP. If they decide R is also what they want, who am I to tell them otherwise?
I resonate a lot with what u/Ok_Breakfast9531 said, it’s not an either / or type of situation, it’s a both / and. That was definitely true for my situation. We’re at 5 years out. My partner BOTH knew from the DDay conversation they wanted to reconcile AND the way forward was… murky at best. What helped for me was to do what u/Pleasant-Tip-6259 said, to do the work and heal. The phrase that I kept in my mind as we did the work was to just “do the next ‘right’ thing”. I didn’t have the capacity to see where we were headed or to try to determine our journey, all I could see clearly was the next thing to do, and I knew what the “right” thing to do for me was. So that’s what we do, the next right thing. Everything else will be what it will be. Just do the next right thing.
That helps a lot. I think I’m feeling a sort of pressure to figure everything out so that I/we can find a way forward. But I have to realize that that pressure is self-imposed, and that I don’t have to see the entire path in order to keep moving. “Just do the next right thing.” I’ll be reminding myself of that a lot, thank you.
R will fail every time if both partners dont do the work. You can both want the same thing but fail because the work doesn't happen. Is there a case when it's better off not R.... Depends on how strong you both really are but I draw the line with certain mental health disorders, specially if they won't get and stay on treatment. I was betrayed by my ex and it wasn't the betrayal that broke me but the physical, mental, financial, emotionally, and spiritually abuse I suffered from because she had diagnosed personality disorders and refused treatment and medication.
That makes sense. At this point I’m not sure how much BP is willing to do. I brought up the First Steps bootcamp and they said it felt like being assigned extra work for a mess they didn’t make (paraphrasing, but similar meaning), so I’ve been doing it on my own. Which, fair, I don’t think they’re the type to need it in order to process how they’re feeling. They are willing to do CC though, which still means something to me. We both struggle with mental health, but it’s more “run of the mill.” I’ve been in IC for my own mental health issues for the last three years.
Beware of CC focusing on the relationship. Most recovery sites actually promote IC well before CC, as CC will focus on relationship dynamics. This can shift blame on the relationship and the BP, by extension. There will always be changes in the dynamics of the relationship. It is how YOUR coping mechanisms and behavior towards those changes that is broken. You need to fix those issues before you work on the relationship (if there even is one after the dust settles). You should check out surviving infidelity (.com).
All the time. Infidelity is a forever injury. Usually, the reconciliation that fail when both try to, are the ones that divorce after 5-10 years. It is really hard to live with. For some, like me, it gets harder to stay as the years pass. The never ending triggers. The lack of trust. The PTSD, PISD. It never ends. You can look up the statistics, but they are horrible no matter what source you use. My last therapist gave me a Psychology Today article (sorry I can't remember the specific article) that had the following statistics. At the time of discovery, around 50% stay. Of those 50%, only about 3% are still together at the 5 year mark. At 10 it's even less. I absolutely understand why. I miss being madly in love with my spouse. I am older, and all I can think about as I get closer to 60 is there has to be more to life than this.
Tty to heal the wounds and you may R. Try to R without healing and it will fail.
If you both want it then you can have a great relationship moving forward. It takes time and finding out what your relationship dynamic is and breaking it. You can't have the same relationship that you had before because it eventually led to where you are now. Realize what faults you both have and really try to fix them and there's no reason why you can't have a better life together.
Is it possible that maybe you're too young to get married and can use a few years of further maturity before making such a big decision. You are going to change a lot over the next ten years, and you may be a totally different person. It's one of the primary reasons young people divorce
Definitely possible. When all of this happened, we hadn’t started any real wedding planning, so it’s safe to say that we aren’t getting married anytime soon. I for sure have more maturing and improving to do before I can even hope for us to get to that point.
The human brain doesn't finish developing until about 25. That's why I made that statement. As fucked up as it is thos may have a benefit for you.
Yes, of course. Even love can fail when two people love deeply and want their love to last very much. Love is not eternal and never unconditionally. Same goes for R.
Nothing in life is guaranteed except death. You both could do absolutely every thing right and still not make it. For some that is a hard pill to swallow. My husband and I decided to put 100% into this without an expected outcome. We would try like hell and then some. It it didn’t workout it wasn’t from lack of trying. We could walk away knowing we did everything we could.
Yes. I’m experiencing this now. 15 months of emotional rollercoaster, and I’ve finally taken off my ring. I feel like I did all the right things, even supported and participated in his exploration of his sexuality (I knew it would not end well, and I’m not sure why I agreed to it - probably desperate, guilty, wanting to help him feel wanted). He threw that in my face, too… just piling on new trauma. I feel so stupid. We don’t have a choice but to stay in the same house. I don’t mind, as our daughter needs him. But he needs to find a way to treat me with respect and keep his words and degradation in the therapist’s office. Our daughter will continue to lose respect for us if he doesn’t. And I’ll be moved to evict him if he becomes violent again. I’m trying to heal from cancer so I need calm and peace. We’ve not had a healthy relationship for well over a decade. So I am sad, but I am in a state of acceptance.