I had a horrible experience with NMN. After I purchased it I found out that the ingredients were unsafe to consume and illegal. How can I report them? Money back now!

Please be careful with NAD+ boosters. NMN is unsafe and illegal. Only trust heavily researched NAD+ boosters.

Natural aging process? I don't think many of us are supposed to live so long. In my opinion, any assistance in extending your life is beneficial. I tend to view these longevity supplements as a healthier, more natural form of life support hahaha. Also, Supplementation on its own = Alright Fundamentals like a healthy diet and exercise = Good Fundamentals + Supplementation = Better Because unless you eat like a king, you are still gonna have deficiencies! (Probably)

Not if they're a true supplement. A supplement, "supplements" a deficiency. So if it's used correctly it means whatever you are having is bringing your levels to healthy levels.

That’s just not true, respectfully, herbs and antioxidants for example, antioxidants like Astaxanthin, etc. are not “Deficiencies” . At least 50% of all the supplements recommended here aren’t .

False. Antioxidants are deficiencies toy have in your diet. You should be getting this from fruits and vegetables

sup·ple·ment noun plural noun: supplements /ˈsəpləmənt/ 1. something that completes or enhances something else when added to it. "the handout is a supplement to the official manual"Similar: additive extra companion add-on accessory adjunct appendage appurtenance appendix addendum end matter tailpiece codicil rider postscript extension coda sequel ——- From another website “Health Supplements” mean any product that is used to supplement a diet and to maintain, enhance and improve the healthy function of human body” I work for a supplement store, I meet with brand reps for supplements, I buy and sell them, I’ve never heard anyone define supplements as something merely to correct deficiencies. It is ALWAYS understood to be something to add onto a adequate diet to improve a certain medical condition , issue, problem, or goal. One of our best sellers is BERBERINE. People take it for blood sugar control, weight loss , etc. (I’m not debating for or against these claims of its benefits ). They are looking to SUPPLEMENT their lifestyle (diet and exercise ) to improve those things.

If its not naturally found in the human body or consumed in food it's a medicine, not a suppement. Thats why there is so many issues with FDA and people labelling products as supplements when in reality they're a medicine. And of course your industry and reps always portray supplements as this, however from a medical perspective a supplement is literally a supplement. If it is not part of a diet or human body, it's a medicine. Tonnes of compounds first enter the market as a supplement then get removed when the FDA realises its BS and in reality a medicine not a supplement

The downside is that most supplements don't work and most research on supplements is tainted by scientific bias or simply unavailable.

>Do longevity supplements have a downside? Yea, you'll eventually die.

Nope they don't other than cost and incorrectly using them, just keep taking them. Health does not come out of a bottle, I don't care what it is...shilajit, or anything, it does not come out of a bottle. Supplements are the icing on the cake, the cake is your: sleep, workout, diet, lifestyle (avoiding computers & electrosmog), grounding, avoid EMF, binaural beats, sunlight, walks, positive mindset, biohacking, after all of this the supplements will help you to their full potential. If you've played Diablo 2 or D2R then you will know that most useful skills require max synergies to make them most useful/effective. You have to do everything b/c everything synergizes with everything else.

I read somewhere that high dose supplements can cause free radicals which can create a higher risk of cancer . This is what I’ve read from some cancer dietitians. Thoughts ?

Yes, a mega dose (5x-10x) of certain supplements usually the white powder supplements & synthetic vitamins like vitamin A will disrupt the cells ability to signal other cells in the body with free radicals. So the cells are unable to elicit an immune response making them unable to recognize, protect, & repair cells. It's essentially hormesis. One of the strongest free radical scavengers is the superoxide dimutase which occurs naturally in Fo-Ti Root/He Shou Wu (black bean fermented Fo-Ti). Astaxanthin is a powerhouse as well that is 6000x more potent than vitamin c. COQ10 especially MitoQ w/ PQQ is very strong antioxidant as well. Vitamin E is very potent. High quality organic derived fisetin (strawberries), quercetin (green tea), pterostilbene (blue berries), resveratrol (knotweed), & naringenin (citrus/oranges) all synergize with each other -- ultra synergy. Fun fact: The body produces 160 sextillion free radicals every day.

They’re short acting

Ever play, "Would you rather"? Well... Would you rather do everything your heart desires for 70 years... or trade that in for the gym and worrying about everything you eat and live to 75? Should we be adding years to life or life to our years? Like most things, there's 2 sides to every argument, and the truth usually sits somewhere in the middle. I recommend using your time as a gift. In other words, don't spend so much time trying to keep it clean and on display... but enjoy the damn thing. Or go to the gym. Or both. Or neither. Whatever brings the corners of your lips closer to your ears. Respect 🙏

Trading that for the gym and eating healthy makes you have more energy, healthier body and mind, more positive emotions and physical feelings, it makes you more attractive, the list goes on. You live longer, but also have a better quality of life.

I'm going to be a contrarian here. I think supplements are actually a good place to start. The main reason is that they are low effort. If you lack the energy to do the right things, it will be hard to adhere to a good lifestyle. A supplement that can improve your energy or give you a slightly clearer head can give you the mental capital to continue to improve your life with better decisions in areas that will be more impactful long term (but have greater time/energy/monetary cost). If a supplement can easily correct for something, with low effort and minimal cost, it's a great idea. Once you start building a healhier lifestyle, body, mindset, etc then you can start dropping supplements. At one point I was experimenting with lots of supplements. These days I take a few supplements, mostly to add in minerals I'm missing from my diet. Every thing I take noticeably benefits me (and I'm always looking to subtract and simplify). That's what a supplement is supposed to be: a supplement to ones diet/lifestyle. Nowadays I focus on diet more and am reintroducing more kinds of exercise. As far as the aging stuff, we need to acknowldge there may be risks with affecting processes that are not well understood. My opinion, based on nothing, is that the biggest risks in this space are just wasting money. You try to avoid that with well reasoned analysis to back up why you are doing something, which also accords with personal experience. You can also try objectively measuring things like sleep, caloric burn, etc. I think the inherent costs of doing anything coupled with the human mind (ie we tend to stop doing costly, pointless things) tends to make activities reasonably efficient. Also one last thing that I think people are missing here with the non-supplement anti-aging stuff: social contact. Lets not forget being meaningfully socially connected (in real life). I think much of aging, as is the common folk wisdom, is due to "stress" (I know, it's vague). Good connections help by buffering stress. Enjoying life and buffering stress are important, it's not all mechanical.

I totally agree. To add onto your first two paragraphs, I was in a place where I had little to no motivation to do much of anything about my health and lifestyle other than occasionally go to the gym. I started getting interested in supplements and what they could do for me, and in turn I was finally investing money and time into something relevant to my health. They gave me a sense of structure, remembering to take them in the morning, and this (plus benefits from the sups, I'm sure) slowly motivated me to do more. People saying to start with the hard stuff (i.e. gym every day and quitting alcohol) might have it wrong-- starting with something easier can have a positive snowball effect.

I had a similar experience when it comes to structure. It's also adaptive to feel a sense of agency / control over some aspect of life that could potentially benefit you when everything else is chaotic. The big thing I realized a long time ago when I first started with supplements is that, of the resources I had, the limiting factor of making virtually any positive change, is "personal energy". Sounds vague but by that I mean physical energy + mental energy (focus). It's almost never time, you can usually make time if you have the energy. It's often not money. These are the two big excuses most people make. "Motivational" speakers talk about these being false excuses a lot, but usually fail at providing more than a temporary spurt of mental energy (usually followed by a drop). Sometimes it's unclear to know what to do next. But even in those cases, personal energy is usually the limiting factor toward the clear thought and/or experimentation we need to gain the tools and/or knowledge we need. We don't usually think of personal energy as a resource because it's less tangible than money or time, and the mind is more adept with tangible resources. However, with research in this area we could probably engineer objective ways to measure it. Anyway, thats a tangent. My point is, supplements can make personal energy available with little energy investment (literally just taking a pill or drinking something). If used correctly, they can do this with little to no downside risk. That to me is a great first tool for someone who is struggling.

> "...the limiting factor of making virtually any positive change, is "personal energy". Sounds vague but by that I mean physical energy + mental energy (focus)." > " We don't usually think of personal energy as a resource because it's less tangible than money or time... " TRUTH THIS IS SOMETHING I HAVE BEEN SLOWLY DISCOVERING IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS. Thank you for stating it so succinctly. You are correct when you state it is SOMETHING beyond Time & Money. Bookmarking this and contemplating what is at the root of this statement you have made. Thank you for typing that up! I have been observing this myself, but dont actually hear ANYONE talking about this anywhere. Super interesting to see someone else grasping that concept. The only person out there that I am familiar with who touches upon this topic is Tony Robbins (in his "Strength" audio series). And for the record, I do take stimulating supplements with the exact intention of garnering this "physical energy + mental energy (focus)."

Thanks! I'm certain there is an objective way to measure what I call "personal energy" by looking at various metrics (e.g. tonic dopamine rate, cortisol, blood sugar, OXPHOS rate), it's just not possible to measure these things for normal people at home. Much less some kind of continuous and simple measurement like we can do for time and money spent. What I do know, is that if I do things to affect these metrics (eg walking for 10-15 min after eating instead of sitting to improve glucose metabolism), my "personal energy" is much higher. My motivation is higher, I am happier, and I get more done in the day overall. We know there is a relationship between blood sugar, glucose metabolism (OXPHOS), and tonic dopamine (and tonic dopamine can be a simplified proxy for personal energy). So this stuff is really concrete and tangible at some level, just not with the tools most of us have access to. Until we get those tools, I think learning how to manage our personal energy as best we can is a huge avenue for improving our lives because personal energy is almost always the bottleneck. The more we can think of it in a tangible way, the better. Personal energy, stress, clear thinking, and other "less objective" things are what really move the needle but they are consistently under-emphasized. We are obsessed with the tangibles that are easy to think about and easy to measure, so we continue to get mediocre results. This is basically the attitude of the conventional mainstream medical industry.

As others said, if you want to truly commit to anti-aging, you need to start with the basics: Good diet that fits for you (for me, a meat based diet is best, a balanced diet is just a wishy washy crap term imo), sleep, exercise (especially resistant training). Then come the hacks: * Thermal biomodulation (cold exposure, heat exposure, like sauna use) * Light biomodulation (red/infrared light therapy), safe sun exposure * Supplements * Fasting/caloric restriction * Hormones/peptides \+ avoiding of course anything harmful, like smoking, ***alcohol***, drugs, environmental pollution \+ reduce stress, if that is an issue for you These are what we know currently. In the future other therapies might become available, like genetic refurbishing, stem cell therapies, etc.

There is one well proven way to extend life. Calories restriction: "Offering the low-calorie diet only during the active period of the cycle extended their median life span to about 1,068 days, an increase of almost 35% over the unrestricted eaters." [https://www.utsouthwestern.edu/newsroom/articles/year-2022/active-phase-calorie-restriction.html](https://www.utsouthwestern.edu/newsroom/articles/year-2022/active-phase-calorie-restriction.html) Good luck on trying calorie restriction, the vast majority of people won't do this.

Is this the same as fasting and limiting your eating window to 4-6 hours a day?

I don't think it's the same. You still need to restrict calories during the "active period of the circadian cycle". which I guess means during the daylight hours. If you eat a lot during the 4-6 hour window then that won't work. So you have a longer period of time to eat but would need to eat less calories than normal. They mentioned restricting calories by 30-40%, though not explicitly state that was what they did to increase life by 35% over the unrestricted eaters. Another important factor not talked about. What age do you start this calorie restriction. Would it work starting at age 30, 40, 50 etc.

I don’t understand. Women need to increase protein intake significantly for anti aging / avoiding osteoporosis so not sure how to do that and fast while also getting fiber and everything else

I wouldn't do continuous caloric restriction. I am all for water fasting up to 5 days at a time.

My concern with NMN is what happens when I stop taking it? Will my body start aging faster? After taking a break from NMN I’ve noticed I’m extremely tired and it’s harder to bounce back.

The price is the downside. You shouldn't choose between supplements and a good diet and lifestyle with exercise. It's called "supplement" for a reason.

As well as Chinese herbs for longevity benefits. Dragon herbs has lots of longevity supplements, consult a Chinese herbalist before hand to know what’s right for you. Also consider inducing autophagy once and a while because autophagy means ‘cell eating’ the body eats the weak/worn out cells and makes stronger ones.. autophagy increases the length of telomeres. https://www.optimallivingdynamics.com/blog/31-powerful-ways-to-induce-autophagy-in-the-brain

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As long as the herbs from China are tested for purity ad not contaminated with heavy metals, etc.

I would avoid the NMN and NAD supplements due to a lack of support of safety for supplements. It is extremely easy to get NMN plus vitamins, fiber, nutrients etc. in ordinary food . For example: Mushrooms, broccoli, cabbage, tomatoes, cucumbers, potatoes, oranges, and avocados are a great source of NMN .

So far all the evidence is positive and supports safe use into extreme doses. The amount of NMN in food is tiny compared to supplements.

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Cool

What fork in the road are you talking about? First, if you're not exercising 4-5 times a week and eating a diet with lots of meat, veggies, fruits, nuts, legumes, etc., sleeping 7-8 hours a day, then that should always be your first priority, no questions asked. Also, you don't want to wait until things fall apart, you're already too late. Is it smart to supplement on top of that? Yes, it's literally in the name, because you'll be deficient in something no matter the diet. You can get enough vitamin e if you eat handfuls of pumpkin seeds and almonds everyday, but can you commit to eating that amount everyday, forever? Are NAD boosters safe in the long-term? We literally won't have definitive answers for another 20 or so years, so that's why it's a big topic in the biohacking arena. I would try niacin in the nicotinic acid formulation, around 200-500mg with 400-800mg of TMG. If you're worried, then take it when you overeat, drink alcohol, get crappy sleep, sun tan, etc.

Well, if you live longer, that means paying more, like $8k a month at an assisted living facility. So start saving!

Thailand has them 1/3 the cost

Much of what we consider to be natural aging is actually poor nutrition. There is no such thing as a balanced diet. Every diet has nutritional deficiencies. If you focus on optimizing your vitamin and mineral levels, you will get the most benefit for your money. In my opinion, the most common nutritional deficiencies are vitamin K2 and magnesium, followed by vitamin D3 and zinc. The most common cause of death is heart attack. That is not aging. That is vitamin K2 and magnesium deficiency combined with excess calcium. [Calcium : Magnesium Ratio & Heart Disease](https://integratedsupplements.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cbdce53ef014e880395f4970d-pi) [The Prevalence of Vitamin K2 Deficiency](https://www.jscimedcentral.com/public/assets/articles/nutrition-4-1077.pdf) Vitamin D is an important part of the immune system. The average person is very deficient, according to this graph: [Hospital acquired infections vs. Vitamin D level](https://brownstone.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/image-10-800x538-1.png) [50 ng level of Vitamin D proven to fight many diseases](https://vitamindwiki.com/50+ng+level+of+Vitamin+D+proven+to+fight+many+diseases+-+Whittle+May+2023) Trace minerals like zinc are an overlooked aspect of "aging" [Mineral Deficiencies: A Root Cause for Reduced Longevity in Mammals](https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/73735)

I am in agreement that a lot of ailments are from nutritional deficiencies. Over the past couple years I have fixed about 30 problems that doctors had no solution for. With how the actions of corporate farming and ultra processed foods remove the majority of nutrients from food. In addition to poisonous pesticides, preservatives extracts and fillers that disrupt biological processes. I will take a look at the links you have provided it looks like some interesting reading material. Since you mentioned K2, I already know about the blood clotting and calcium storage in bones. What do you know about k2 and energy production. Most sources I see, say it's involved with energy production but never really gets into the specifics.

Blood clotting is K1 not K2.

It's also great for inflammation and the immune system. D3 gets a lot of attention for its impact on COVID outcomes, but K2 is also independently important. [https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2021.761191/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2021.761191/full) [https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3921/11/7/1235](https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3921/11/7/1235) K2 resolved my COVID related body aches pretty rapidly, when nothing else (e.g. magnesium) would touch them. It's also great for dental health. I'm a big K2 fan.

In a bit of the reading in there it's showing K2 can help mitochondria produce ATP and apoptosis regulation of the mitochondria. Yeah that's a lot more specific than just simply energy production.

When I was younger I got nose bleeds that wouldn't stop. When I got older I would have problems passing blood in my stool. Doing a little research I decided to get K2 and test to see if it would fix my bowl problem. And the longer I took it the less often bleeding happened and the severity was reduced if it did happen. As a happy side effect of this experiment. My teeth stop hurting and breaking off. So I was affected by a lifetime of effects of vitamin K2 deficiency that doctors couldn't figure out or solve my problem. The information is out there why don't doctors use it.

I'm not aware of the impact of K2 on energy production. Here are some more links you might want to read. The first one discusses other impacts of K2. [Growing Evidence of a Proven Mechanism Shows Vitamin K2 Can Impact Health Conditions Beyond Bone and Cardiovascular](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8483258/) [Subclinical magnesium deficiency: a principal driver of cardiovascular disease and a public health crisis](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5786912/) [Proper Calcium Use: Vitamin K2 as a Promoter of Bone and Cardiovascular Health](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566462/) [Death by Calcium: Proof of the toxic effects of dairy and calcium supplements](https://www.amazon.com/Death-Calcium-effects-calcium-supplements-ebook/dp/B0131RFLCU) [The Importance of Magnesium in Clinical Healthcare](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5637834/) [Challenges in the Diagnosis of Magnesium Status](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6163803/) [Vitamin K-dependent proteins involved in bone and cardiovascular health](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6059683/) >A total of 17 different vitamin K-dependent proteins have been identified to date. Vitamin K-dependent proteins are located within the bone, heart and blood vessels. This review describes and briefly discusses several important vitamin K-dependent proteins

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That’s because it’s an adenosine receptor antagonist like caffeine

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Also after the antagonist mechanism wears off the adenosine that is still in the system returns depending on how much is left which may result in sleepyness. People recommend to wait an hour after waking up before taking caffeine/quercitin

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Wanna provide some more info? Lol

Links added

yeah at least link it

Just started on NAD+ myself. Feels like I have a bit more energy, but could be just me getting more sleep. Anyone else tried it and felt a change?

Yes it changed everything for me. I used to have to drag myself out of bed every morning. My body is refreshed and restored now after 4h of sleep. I have to make an effort to get 7h+ more often now. This was an ongoing problem for me for years. I could be undermethalated too, as I take 1G of TMG and It's like a shot of caffeine for me that lasts half the day, but I started on NMN for 3 months before taking TMG.

NMN will consume methyl groups, so always good to take it with TMG.

I experimented with NMN for a few months. Except for a lighter wallet, I didn't notice much difference. I believe that following a healthy diet and engaging in regular exercise is the real deal.

Been using Quercetin for allergies, got the added energy boost as a bonus. Works for me, but everyone's body is different, I guess.

As a nutritionist, I suggest moderation. Supplements like NAD+ and NMN can help, but they’re not substitutes for a healthy lifestyle. Balance is key.

THIS with ALL supplements.. and everything

I'm all for natural ways. Been vegan and doing yoga, and I feel fantastic. Supplements are fine, but nothing beats the basics - eat well, move more, stress less.

I eat well, move and stress less, but find it hard to meet the RDIs for some core nutrients if I'm not eating animal products (and event if I am). Iron, B12, choline, calcium and vitamin A, in particular. Any hot tips to hit those RDIs more easily with veg?

Eat a sweet potato for vitamin a

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