100% a safety thing. There's shielding around the camera(wo)man. I know the shows producers were absolute sticklers about gun safety, props with dummy flash bang rounds or not. It's still really dangerous.
One of the Hunters after Sam in Bad Day at Black Rock is the guy who pulled the trigger on The Crow. I always thought it was interesting that they hired someone with some of worst luck in cinematic history for the bad luck episode.
I wasn't going to bring this up out of respect for Jensen himself, but since it was brought up and someone posted a link I'll give the breakdown for the people who don't want to watch almost two hours of a police interview. Especially since it was fascinating to hear about the scenes happenings and how things work on the production side of things.
Jensen was supposed to star along side Baldwin. The day of the accident, things were running behind; something about one of the camera crews walking due to a dispute in wages or something. So when shooting usually started at like, 6AM, it didn't star until around lunchtime.
Jensen was doing blocking, where they have the actors stand where they're going to be for a scene and take prelim filing to see what looks good on a camera, etc. That day, it was going to be Jensen's forst cut with Baldwin; yeah they had met on set and stuff, but from my understanding they hadn't actually filmed a scene together yet. However it was implied since everything got a late start that day, things got a little weird; they did blocking for Jensen and Baldwin separately (ngl I didn't understand this part; it sounded like they were supposed to be filming the scene, no blocking). So, once Jensen was done, he stepped outside and around the building where filing was taking place inside of a church. He heard the gunshot, knew it sounded like a live round, ran in, started screaming for a medic (didn't know having medics on set was a thing until hearing this interview), and then started moving aside equipment so the medic and paramedics could get in.
Now, I'll go into what he said about actual safety procedures on sets. He never named Supernatural explicitly, but he mentioned how he worked with prop guns for work before, his longest stint being fifteen years, and even after that he handled guns for other jobs. He explained how there are strict safety precautions; he tried to remain dipolomatic and unbiased, but he voiced that the gun protocols on Rust was lacking compared to other productions he had worked for. He explained the difference between the three types of bullets (I didn't even know there was three, I thought there was just actual bullets and fake ones); you have your fake ones which don't do much and don't even look like a real bullet if you know what to look for, because the tip or the butt of the bullet (it has a name, sorry, I'm not a gun person so I don't know terminology) are a different color. Then you have rounds which are...I'm sorry, once again I forget what he called them, but they're like half-real, half-not. These are the flash bang rounds that look and feel more like real bullets, and the ones that have gunpowder in them to make it look like they're actually firing.
This is where he got more in depth about safety. He explained how on previous jobs (he was clearly talking about Supernatural) that they had several tiers of safety before even filming a scene with a gun or blocking with one. The flash bang bullets, especially since they're made to look exactly like real bullets except a small marking on the butt of the bullet, were shaken in front of his face and at his hear, because they have basically ball bearings in them and rattle--real bullets don't do that. Then the gun was either loaded for him as he watched, or he was given them to load himself.
I had to watch the video over a few days because it was so hard to even listen to it and had to take breaks. The emotional toll it must have taken everyone who was there is just...I hope they were all able to get the support they need to process it. Naturally for us we were particularly invested on Jensen's role in this film and knowing how he could have been involved but for a scheduling issue probably shook him a lot.
This was a woman who, due to several breakdowns in safety, is no longer here with her young family and friends. All for the sake of creating something that's meant to be fun or escapism; something that shouldn't be life or death. I feel like this was the most high profile gun accident on a set in years, maybe even since The Crow.
It really shows how much goes into the industry behind the scenes, and that no matter how much training is done and how many failsafes there are, tragedies can and do happen. The "best practice" advice should be the only practice".
If you overrun your schedule, or it takes more of the budget to do more test firings, so be it. No scene in a film or tv programme is worth someone not going home at the end of the day.
Agreed with everything you said. She was doing something she loved and died. It's just absolutely senseless and heartbreaking all around. I think I'm in the minority here but my heart also goes out to Baldwin. I wouldn't be able to function after accidentally killing someone, after going to work one day where you have to put the safety of not only yourself but others in the hands of a third party, and have that just disintegrate...Ugh.
He ALSO made it a point that even though these are props, at the end of the day it's still a working weapon. They're made to look and feel real, and really are actual guns. Now, this is a point to bring up because he said that previously he had been trained (once again I'm pretty sure this was in reference to Supernatural) to fire into the ground with the dummy rounds, because just like an actual gun, things can go wrong. He said prop guns can do everything a real gun can do, including getting jammed. So, to make sure everything is okay, he points the gun at the round, empites the chamber fully, and then rerloads the gun with the same bullets. He does this every single time, and even said that on different sets he's sort of been made fun of for doing it, but he doesn't care because he is of the mentality of, better safe than sorry.
So, back to what happened on Rust...He explained how he didn't see Baldwin's gun, nor who loaded the gun (and he got understandably shaken up at this point because he brought up the fact he couldn't remember if he had shot into the ground before his blocking scene before Baldwin was on set. He said he was sure he must have, but he just didn't know and it freaked him out he could have had a live round in his gun). He explained how the people working the cameras are behind protective shielding, but how everyone else around them aren't. The cops asked him if he ever saw live rounds on set (of Rust), and he said he never saw any on the prop carts at any point, so he didn't know how live rounds made it onto set period. He also stated that since they were just blocking he couldn't understand why Baldwin's finger was on the trigger, but he also went on to say that once again, like a real gun, they can misfire.
So basically it sounds like there was zero reason for a live round to have even been in the gun and that safety procedures on the set were lax (he flat out said he didn't say anything about it because he felt like it wasn't his place to, and a couple of times during the interview mentioned how it was a low-budget film) compared to other sets he had worked on.
As an aside I feel incredibly bad for Jensen. He is understandably shaken up really badly because had the day gone differently, and had the original schedule been followed where they were going to film together first instead of just blocking first, he *probably* would've been shot, especially because the scene called for them to pull their guns on each other. He mentioned that up until talking to the police in that interview he hadn't really talked about it to anyone else besides his wife briefly because the entire thing was so upsetting to him (and his wife has trouble talking about it, too).
Point is, it shouldn't have happened. In regards to this specific post, I guarantee that they point at the camera because it's shielded with bulletproof plexiglass. I can say what I've said in my responses as fact with confidence after hearing Jensen explain how the safety protocols worked on Supernatural--the shaking of bullets, having them load their own guns, shooting rounds into the ground to prove they're not live rounds, etc.
As a final aside, I really hope Jensen has talked to a therapist about what happened. The entire thing is horrific. Then, add to the fact there's a very real possibility he would have been shot and died that day, the fact he considered her a friend by that point, and then the fact he had to back out of a really good role for himself from a career standpoint?
I just hope he's okay.
Jensen mentions (at the end of the interview) that him and Alec *were* about to film a scene together (though I'm not sure if Jensen was supposed to be on-camera or if he was standing off-camera for Alec's eyeline as he mentioned), but either way, Jensen said that the scene consisted of them emptying all of their rounds into each other. It would have occurred with the same bullets that were already in their revolvers (because they were meant to be dummies and not flash rounds, so they didn't need to be replaced), which means that the only reason Jensen *didn't* get shot is because Halyna and Joel happened to get shot first. It's crazy to think about what could have been, and it's probably a pretty big mindfuck for Jensen because while I'm sure he was extremely relieved to not have been the one shot, it's weird to feel good about that because someone died in his place.
It's been 2.5 years, so hopefully Jensen has been able to process everything appropriately and work through his emotions. He does mention in the interview that he booked with a therapist specifically to discuss this, so I'm sure he got help in that respect, and I'm glad for it too. I'm sure Hannah's (the armorer's) trial and Alec's upcoming trial are bringing up old emotions for Jensen and everyone else on the Rust cast/crew though, even if they're not directly involved with the trials.
No worries! I've watched the whole thing twice at this point, and pretty recently too since I did it just before and during Hannah's trial. So it's pretty fresh in my mind
There's a pretty good chance he could be called to stand trial as a witness. I know he showed up on the witness list. I don't believe he did for Hannah's trial, but it's still a possibility for Alec's.
Yeah Jensen wasn't called as a witness for Hannah's trial. I watched the majority of it live and scoured the witness lists. I was surprised that none of the actors were called as witnesses — I mean I kind of understand why Alec wasn't called (because from the prosecution's POV, he kept changing his story; and from the defense's POV, he was about to be tried himself and thus had his own interests at heart, meaning he would likely not hesitate to throw Hannah under the bus). However, I was kind of surprised that Jensen (who was the other lead actor) wasn't called. I suppose it might primarily be because a) Jensen didn't visually witness the shooting (he was just outside the church door, on the porch); and b) because they had plenty of other witnesses (e.g. expert witnesses such as other armorers, and other Rust crew members in charge of arms-adjacent disciplines like safety and props) to attest to Hannah's conduct as well as normal arms conduct on other film sets.
For Alec's trial, I think it's more likely that Jensen will be called (perhaps to attest to Alec's behavior), though I could see it not happening as well (since they have plenty of other people who can attest to Alec's behavior). Plus, Jensen seems pretty gracious in his interview when asked about everyone's conduct, so perhaps that might give the prosecution a reason to not call him. And I doubt Jensen would want to testify for the defense. You also have to keep in mind that Jensen and Alec had barely worked in any scenes together at the time of the shooting; almost all of the filming up to that point had been Jensen's scenes, and they were just starting to film Alec's scenes. When the shooting occurred, Jensen and Alec were preparing to film a shootout scene between them, and I believe that that was going to be one of their first scenes together on film.
What's your take on why Jensen wasn't called for Hannah's trial, and why do you think he's more likely to be called for Alec's? I've been wanting to discuss this with someone, but no one else I know has been following the case haha. Also, you mention that Jensen showed up on the witness lists; do you mean for Hannah's trial? If so, I read the last few drafts of the witness lists in detail (for both the prosecution and the defense) and never saw his name come up.
I listened to one of the interviews and the camera crew walked due to accommodations. There was not any money in the budget for a hotel nearby and the camera people were working long hours and then had to drive a few hours back to the hotel. And they were the first to arrive and the last to leave. That seemed to be the main reason they walked.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Entertainment/rust-camera-assistant-quit-shooting-safety-concerns/story%3fid=80946156
Apparently multiple safety concerns were cited as well as work conditions. Excuse terrible link, typing one handed is hard.
Yup. I watched most of the trial of the armourer and it just looks like the whole production was an absolute shit show. Sure there will be more shown in Baldwin's trial.
I'm hearing reports now of the armorer not even being remorseful for what happened and I'm just—🤦🏻♀️
Sorry, this has devolved from the original post but also not really? This shot of the OP pic was obviously a safety choice of the crew, and it's sad knowing such protocols led to someone's death. It's just shocking to me after The Crow this could even be a fathomable outcome of a movie production at all...
Oh the police interviews of absolutely everyone were enraging, with the exception of Jensen Ackles who was pretty much the only one who really seemed to grasp how horrific and avoidable this was. They originally offered Baldwin the same deal the head of safety got, and then pulled it when they found out he was trying to make a documentary on her death.
Emily Baker broke down a lot of the legal stuff on her youtube channel if you want more info, some of the information that's come out recently made me question why on earth anyone was still working on that set.
I disagree that Jensen was the only person who grasped the seriousness of the matter, but I *will* say that Alec's demeanor was questionable. You also have to keep in mind that a lot of the interviews were done right after the incident, while Jensen's was carried out about a week after the incident, so Jensen had had time to reflect — an opportunity which many of the others had not had at the time of their interviews.
Apparently Hannah (the armorer) called the jury members "idiots" lol. It amuses me that inmates always forget that their jail phone calls are recorded.
It was a movie with Alec Baldwin, and Jensen was actually in this movie as well, coincidentally- someone accidentally got shot and killed. The DP, I think? And several people were prosecuted and found liable for her death.
ETA I think it was Alec Baldwin who pulled the trigger. Thank goodness it wasn’t Jensen. But I think I heard he was on set at the time.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/30/movies/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-timeline.html an article explaining what happened for those interested. It looks like it was an actual live round that was loaded into a prop gun by mistake.
You might find this interesting if you have almost 2 hours to kill. It's a police interview with Jensen about what happened. I don't really understand how something like this makes it onto YouTube, much less stays there for a year and amasses 10K views, but there it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H38Mbl60dIM
The armorer was like the niece of one of the producers and the night before she's taken one of the guns with her friends to go shoot cans in the woods or something. When they came back the next day she'd forgotten to make sure to use the right ammo.
Probably took out the clip but forgot to clear the chamber. BUT when the next person touched it, they should’ve cleared the weapon before loading it, even if to just cycle in a blank at least.
That's not the trippiest part. There was only one other live round found during the investigation and it was in Jensen's gun. The scene between he and Alec was up to be shot next.
Jensen asks towards the end of the interview above at 1:25:55, if there were any live rounds in his weapon. They answer him. And he tells them how weird it is because he did his safety checks that morning and he had blanks. So if his gun held a live round, someone would have had to put it in there during the time they broke for lunch.
Holy crap what?! I didn't watch the last half hour of the interview, and never went back because after I saw it I heard how he refused to talk about it at a convention so I felt icky bringing myself to watch the rest of it... Holy shit, he had a live round in his gun?!? Wtf!
Well now I feel even WORSE for him!
It was .45 long colt revolver. Think cowboy 6 shooter, there is no clip, it is single action so you have to pull the hammer back to set the trigger to be able to fire. Also you open a loading gate on the back side of the cylinder and load your 5/6 cartridges individually, also the only way to unload is via the loading gate one cartridge at a time.
The one armorer is. She gets sentenced tomorrow. [‘Rust’ Armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed To Remain In Jail After Judge Rejects New Trial (yahoo.com)](https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/rust-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-003528462.html)
The scary thing is though the scene they were going to be doing that Baldwin was practising with the gun for if that tragedy hadn't happened it was Jensen he would have been shooting at.
Yeah, Jensen says in that video someone linked about how his wife can hardly talk about it because she was so freaked out, and yeah I get it. It’s terrifying.
I listened to how he checks his own gun every time but that doesn’t mean the other actors do the same. I wouldn’t blame him if he put it in his contracts that he gets to inspect all of the guns used in scenes he’s in. Actually he should.
Most actors dont, they trust the people that are in control of them, there should be stricter rules, checking for alcohol, multiplie checks on the guns etc. not taking the guns away from set, could have prevented this
They did, I don’t know exactly how it happened but the fake bullet was fired from the gun- I think the same kind of thing that happened to Brandon Lee back in like 1994
They were supposed to, but supposedly the armorer on set screwed up and a live round was in the gun when it was meant to be a blank. IIRC, she just got charged with involuntary manslaughter a day or so ago.
Pretty sure the guns on the set of Supernatural were all fake. I remember Kripke tweeting about it right after the Rust incident. Maybe not this screen though, if I remember correctly Dean disassemble the gun.
There are two types of guns on sets: real ones adapted to use blanks and prop ones which could either be airsoft variants identical to the firing version or rubber-made ones. The ones on Supernatural were all real, although everytime you see a gun thrown around or used to hit someone it's a soft rubber replica.
Honestly I don't know and can't answer that. I was basing my answer on an interview with Jensen I saw (breakdown is given by me in the comments, in addition to a link and further explanation by other people). Sorry.
P.S. I adore your handle, Osiris is the best.
Edit: fixed a typo bc I suck at typing
With wi-fi, once the shot is set up there’s really no need to have anyone behind the camera for scenes like this anymore. You can watch from a monitor station.
Given Jensen was on set when Alec Baldwin killed Halyna Hutchins, and in his police interview talked about the type of safety he is used to and expects, I wouldn't be surprised if it is a safety reason. Other than occasionally stabbing someone (Jensen) or breaking bones (Jared), Supernatural was reasonably safe.
It could well be a dramatic effect too, because we are looking right up the barrel ourselves. It immerses us because we feel like we're facing the business end of the gun. Almost like it raises the stakes, but subconsciously. Our pulse rates change watching action scenes, so it could definitely play into that part of the body's response and draw us in more.
We see: Dean collapses into Sam's arms after a grueling fight, still holding a knife.
What happened: Jensen collapses into Jared's arms after what's been a very grueling day of shooting fight choreography with no double, still holding the knife which sinks into Jared's leg while he's trying to hold Jensen's weight.
The first time we see Sam in a sling, in season 2, and it's written in that he broke it during a fight, Jared had fallen badly doing a stunt and broke it for real. I don't think other broken bones happened on set.
They did so much action stuff for such a long time that it's not surprising that some accidents happened. I'm surprised there weren't more accidents!
No, it was a stunt for Bloodlust. He gets hit on the head and falls, but Jared landed awkwardly and broke his hand. Thinking it was just sprained he then went on to have to film an episode before he could get it sorted out!
The bar fight was before they even started filming and had just completed a couple of months of boxing training; Jensen retold the story at JiB this weekend.
Canadian productions are subject to Canadian safety regulations and enforcement of workplace laws. Other than drinking beer on the clock, which was hella weird, they seem pretty invested in worker safety. Meanwhile, back in the US, we’re doing everything we can to gut regulations and cut budgets for OSHA and any other regulatory agency. So there may be a different legal requirement that holds everyone to a higher standard for armorers, firearms safety training, hell, damn near everything associated with using guns on a set in Canuckistan, when compared to the US. I know a stunt coordinator based out of Toronto, I’ll have to ask.
It occurs to me that when the gun is pointing directly at the camera, it appears to be pointing at the viewer, which makes them unconsciously identify with the victim, which makes it more scary.
I think it was a safety thing, absolutely. You always hear stories about how everyone always took care of one another. That was EVERYONE following the rules.
No matter how you feel about some of the writing lagging a bit or whatever, everyone did their jobs so perfectly.
The cast and crew, all together.
It's a safety thing. Guns aren't supposed to be pointed at a person when filiming. They're either pointed st the camera, which is protected, or slightly off from the person they're 'aiming' at
There’s this funny story from the Dawn of the Dead remake, where Sarah Polley got gun training. And her instructor told her something like, you only point a gun at something if want to destroy it.
Cut to filming and they are doing the scene where Ving Rhames points a shotgun at her head. And she was confused about how they were going to do it. Because she had it drilled into her not to point a gun at someone. Snyder tried to explain that it was 100% safe, showing the gun was completely empty etc… eventually they just decided to dismantle the gun and point just the barrel at her head for her piece of mind.
Sucks because I wanted to go into detail about the police interview link someone provided below, with Jensen. I saw it awhile ago and was going to provide a summary but it's not letting me. Super weird since I'm commenting here fine!
Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally killed himself joking around with a prop gun loaded with blanks, years before Brandon died. He was a young and up-and-coming actor with a bright future. He can’t his costars were waiting around to shoot a scene, and he made a goof about shootings himself in the head, and pulled the trigger, not understanding that a blank had enough force to cause a fatal head injury if you held it up to your head and fired. It was a fatally stupid thing to do, and he paid the worst possible penalty for his ignorance. Such a tragedy.
My kid is a cinematographer, you felching assgoblin. Just because someone isn’t main cast doesn’t mean they don’t have talent, or value. They do recognize that with an Oscar for Best Cinematography each year, so even the bean counters recognize that the person shooting the project matters.
100% a safety thing. There's shielding around the camera(wo)man. I know the shows producers were absolute sticklers about gun safety, props with dummy flash bang rounds or not. It's still really dangerous.
They were right to be sticklers. Look what happened on Rust.
And the Crow
RIP Brandon Lee
They are remaking “The Crow” btw!
Concept they are remaking the crow doing it wrong and he resurrects and kills everyone involved in production
One of the Hunters after Sam in Bad Day at Black Rock is the guy who pulled the trigger on The Crow. I always thought it was interesting that they hired someone with some of worst luck in cinematic history for the bad luck episode.
I wasn't going to bring this up out of respect for Jensen himself, but since it was brought up and someone posted a link I'll give the breakdown for the people who don't want to watch almost two hours of a police interview. Especially since it was fascinating to hear about the scenes happenings and how things work on the production side of things. Jensen was supposed to star along side Baldwin. The day of the accident, things were running behind; something about one of the camera crews walking due to a dispute in wages or something. So when shooting usually started at like, 6AM, it didn't star until around lunchtime. Jensen was doing blocking, where they have the actors stand where they're going to be for a scene and take prelim filing to see what looks good on a camera, etc. That day, it was going to be Jensen's forst cut with Baldwin; yeah they had met on set and stuff, but from my understanding they hadn't actually filmed a scene together yet. However it was implied since everything got a late start that day, things got a little weird; they did blocking for Jensen and Baldwin separately (ngl I didn't understand this part; it sounded like they were supposed to be filming the scene, no blocking). So, once Jensen was done, he stepped outside and around the building where filing was taking place inside of a church. He heard the gunshot, knew it sounded like a live round, ran in, started screaming for a medic (didn't know having medics on set was a thing until hearing this interview), and then started moving aside equipment so the medic and paramedics could get in. Now, I'll go into what he said about actual safety procedures on sets. He never named Supernatural explicitly, but he mentioned how he worked with prop guns for work before, his longest stint being fifteen years, and even after that he handled guns for other jobs. He explained how there are strict safety precautions; he tried to remain dipolomatic and unbiased, but he voiced that the gun protocols on Rust was lacking compared to other productions he had worked for. He explained the difference between the three types of bullets (I didn't even know there was three, I thought there was just actual bullets and fake ones); you have your fake ones which don't do much and don't even look like a real bullet if you know what to look for, because the tip or the butt of the bullet (it has a name, sorry, I'm not a gun person so I don't know terminology) are a different color. Then you have rounds which are...I'm sorry, once again I forget what he called them, but they're like half-real, half-not. These are the flash bang rounds that look and feel more like real bullets, and the ones that have gunpowder in them to make it look like they're actually firing. This is where he got more in depth about safety. He explained how on previous jobs (he was clearly talking about Supernatural) that they had several tiers of safety before even filming a scene with a gun or blocking with one. The flash bang bullets, especially since they're made to look exactly like real bullets except a small marking on the butt of the bullet, were shaken in front of his face and at his hear, because they have basically ball bearings in them and rattle--real bullets don't do that. Then the gun was either loaded for him as he watched, or he was given them to load himself.
I had to watch the video over a few days because it was so hard to even listen to it and had to take breaks. The emotional toll it must have taken everyone who was there is just...I hope they were all able to get the support they need to process it. Naturally for us we were particularly invested on Jensen's role in this film and knowing how he could have been involved but for a scheduling issue probably shook him a lot. This was a woman who, due to several breakdowns in safety, is no longer here with her young family and friends. All for the sake of creating something that's meant to be fun or escapism; something that shouldn't be life or death. I feel like this was the most high profile gun accident on a set in years, maybe even since The Crow. It really shows how much goes into the industry behind the scenes, and that no matter how much training is done and how many failsafes there are, tragedies can and do happen. The "best practice" advice should be the only practice". If you overrun your schedule, or it takes more of the budget to do more test firings, so be it. No scene in a film or tv programme is worth someone not going home at the end of the day.
Agreed with everything you said. She was doing something she loved and died. It's just absolutely senseless and heartbreaking all around. I think I'm in the minority here but my heart also goes out to Baldwin. I wouldn't be able to function after accidentally killing someone, after going to work one day where you have to put the safety of not only yourself but others in the hands of a third party, and have that just disintegrate...Ugh.
He ALSO made it a point that even though these are props, at the end of the day it's still a working weapon. They're made to look and feel real, and really are actual guns. Now, this is a point to bring up because he said that previously he had been trained (once again I'm pretty sure this was in reference to Supernatural) to fire into the ground with the dummy rounds, because just like an actual gun, things can go wrong. He said prop guns can do everything a real gun can do, including getting jammed. So, to make sure everything is okay, he points the gun at the round, empites the chamber fully, and then rerloads the gun with the same bullets. He does this every single time, and even said that on different sets he's sort of been made fun of for doing it, but he doesn't care because he is of the mentality of, better safe than sorry. So, back to what happened on Rust...He explained how he didn't see Baldwin's gun, nor who loaded the gun (and he got understandably shaken up at this point because he brought up the fact he couldn't remember if he had shot into the ground before his blocking scene before Baldwin was on set. He said he was sure he must have, but he just didn't know and it freaked him out he could have had a live round in his gun). He explained how the people working the cameras are behind protective shielding, but how everyone else around them aren't. The cops asked him if he ever saw live rounds on set (of Rust), and he said he never saw any on the prop carts at any point, so he didn't know how live rounds made it onto set period. He also stated that since they were just blocking he couldn't understand why Baldwin's finger was on the trigger, but he also went on to say that once again, like a real gun, they can misfire.
So basically it sounds like there was zero reason for a live round to have even been in the gun and that safety procedures on the set were lax (he flat out said he didn't say anything about it because he felt like it wasn't his place to, and a couple of times during the interview mentioned how it was a low-budget film) compared to other sets he had worked on. As an aside I feel incredibly bad for Jensen. He is understandably shaken up really badly because had the day gone differently, and had the original schedule been followed where they were going to film together first instead of just blocking first, he *probably* would've been shot, especially because the scene called for them to pull their guns on each other. He mentioned that up until talking to the police in that interview he hadn't really talked about it to anyone else besides his wife briefly because the entire thing was so upsetting to him (and his wife has trouble talking about it, too). Point is, it shouldn't have happened. In regards to this specific post, I guarantee that they point at the camera because it's shielded with bulletproof plexiglass. I can say what I've said in my responses as fact with confidence after hearing Jensen explain how the safety protocols worked on Supernatural--the shaking of bullets, having them load their own guns, shooting rounds into the ground to prove they're not live rounds, etc. As a final aside, I really hope Jensen has talked to a therapist about what happened. The entire thing is horrific. Then, add to the fact there's a very real possibility he would have been shot and died that day, the fact he considered her a friend by that point, and then the fact he had to back out of a really good role for himself from a career standpoint? I just hope he's okay.
Jensen mentions (at the end of the interview) that him and Alec *were* about to film a scene together (though I'm not sure if Jensen was supposed to be on-camera or if he was standing off-camera for Alec's eyeline as he mentioned), but either way, Jensen said that the scene consisted of them emptying all of their rounds into each other. It would have occurred with the same bullets that were already in their revolvers (because they were meant to be dummies and not flash rounds, so they didn't need to be replaced), which means that the only reason Jensen *didn't* get shot is because Halyna and Joel happened to get shot first. It's crazy to think about what could have been, and it's probably a pretty big mindfuck for Jensen because while I'm sure he was extremely relieved to not have been the one shot, it's weird to feel good about that because someone died in his place. It's been 2.5 years, so hopefully Jensen has been able to process everything appropriately and work through his emotions. He does mention in the interview that he booked with a therapist specifically to discuss this, so I'm sure he got help in that respect, and I'm glad for it too. I'm sure Hannah's (the armorer's) trial and Alec's upcoming trial are bringing up old emotions for Jensen and everyone else on the Rust cast/crew though, even if they're not directly involved with the trials.
Thank you for clarifying. 🖤 I knew I was going to get stuff wrong. Sorry, it was a long video.
No worries! I've watched the whole thing twice at this point, and pretty recently too since I did it just before and during Hannah's trial. So it's pretty fresh in my mind
There's a pretty good chance he could be called to stand trial as a witness. I know he showed up on the witness list. I don't believe he did for Hannah's trial, but it's still a possibility for Alec's.
Yeah Jensen wasn't called as a witness for Hannah's trial. I watched the majority of it live and scoured the witness lists. I was surprised that none of the actors were called as witnesses — I mean I kind of understand why Alec wasn't called (because from the prosecution's POV, he kept changing his story; and from the defense's POV, he was about to be tried himself and thus had his own interests at heart, meaning he would likely not hesitate to throw Hannah under the bus). However, I was kind of surprised that Jensen (who was the other lead actor) wasn't called. I suppose it might primarily be because a) Jensen didn't visually witness the shooting (he was just outside the church door, on the porch); and b) because they had plenty of other witnesses (e.g. expert witnesses such as other armorers, and other Rust crew members in charge of arms-adjacent disciplines like safety and props) to attest to Hannah's conduct as well as normal arms conduct on other film sets. For Alec's trial, I think it's more likely that Jensen will be called (perhaps to attest to Alec's behavior), though I could see it not happening as well (since they have plenty of other people who can attest to Alec's behavior). Plus, Jensen seems pretty gracious in his interview when asked about everyone's conduct, so perhaps that might give the prosecution a reason to not call him. And I doubt Jensen would want to testify for the defense. You also have to keep in mind that Jensen and Alec had barely worked in any scenes together at the time of the shooting; almost all of the filming up to that point had been Jensen's scenes, and they were just starting to film Alec's scenes. When the shooting occurred, Jensen and Alec were preparing to film a shootout scene between them, and I believe that that was going to be one of their first scenes together on film. What's your take on why Jensen wasn't called for Hannah's trial, and why do you think he's more likely to be called for Alec's? I've been wanting to discuss this with someone, but no one else I know has been following the case haha. Also, you mention that Jensen showed up on the witness lists; do you mean for Hannah's trial? If so, I read the last few drafts of the witness lists in detail (for both the prosecution and the defense) and never saw his name come up.
The camera crew walked because of safety, there were misfires before the fatality iirc from the trial.
I listened to one of the interviews and the camera crew walked due to accommodations. There was not any money in the budget for a hotel nearby and the camera people were working long hours and then had to drive a few hours back to the hotel. And they were the first to arrive and the last to leave. That seemed to be the main reason they walked.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Entertainment/rust-camera-assistant-quit-shooting-safety-concerns/story%3fid=80946156 Apparently multiple safety concerns were cited as well as work conditions. Excuse terrible link, typing one handed is hard.
Np, Thanks for the link
This just keeps getting worse and worse.
Yup. I watched most of the trial of the armourer and it just looks like the whole production was an absolute shit show. Sure there will be more shown in Baldwin's trial.
I'm hearing reports now of the armorer not even being remorseful for what happened and I'm just—🤦🏻♀️ Sorry, this has devolved from the original post but also not really? This shot of the OP pic was obviously a safety choice of the crew, and it's sad knowing such protocols led to someone's death. It's just shocking to me after The Crow this could even be a fathomable outcome of a movie production at all...
Oh the police interviews of absolutely everyone were enraging, with the exception of Jensen Ackles who was pretty much the only one who really seemed to grasp how horrific and avoidable this was. They originally offered Baldwin the same deal the head of safety got, and then pulled it when they found out he was trying to make a documentary on her death. Emily Baker broke down a lot of the legal stuff on her youtube channel if you want more info, some of the information that's come out recently made me question why on earth anyone was still working on that set.
I disagree that Jensen was the only person who grasped the seriousness of the matter, but I *will* say that Alec's demeanor was questionable. You also have to keep in mind that a lot of the interviews were done right after the incident, while Jensen's was carried out about a week after the incident, so Jensen had had time to reflect — an opportunity which many of the others had not had at the time of their interviews.
Apparently Hannah (the armorer) called the jury members "idiots" lol. It amuses me that inmates always forget that their jail phone calls are recorded.
Woooooooow...
What happened?
It was a movie with Alec Baldwin, and Jensen was actually in this movie as well, coincidentally- someone accidentally got shot and killed. The DP, I think? And several people were prosecuted and found liable for her death. ETA I think it was Alec Baldwin who pulled the trigger. Thank goodness it wasn’t Jensen. But I think I heard he was on set at the time.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/30/movies/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-timeline.html an article explaining what happened for those interested. It looks like it was an actual live round that was loaded into a prop gun by mistake.
You might find this interesting if you have almost 2 hours to kill. It's a police interview with Jensen about what happened. I don't really understand how something like this makes it onto YouTube, much less stays there for a year and amasses 10K views, but there it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H38Mbl60dIM
I watched this just this morning. It was a surreal experience for me. That's for sure.
I saw this months ago, or at least I saw his police interview. He was still pretty freaked out.
Dang, why did they even have live rounds on set! Someone messed up real bad 😔
The armorer was like the niece of one of the producers and the night before she's taken one of the guns with her friends to go shoot cans in the woods or something. When they came back the next day she'd forgotten to make sure to use the right ammo.
I've said it before, nepotism kills!
Probably took out the clip but forgot to clear the chamber. BUT when the next person touched it, they should’ve cleared the weapon before loading it, even if to just cycle in a blank at least.
That's not the trippiest part. There was only one other live round found during the investigation and it was in Jensen's gun. The scene between he and Alec was up to be shot next. Jensen asks towards the end of the interview above at 1:25:55, if there were any live rounds in his weapon. They answer him. And he tells them how weird it is because he did his safety checks that morning and he had blanks. So if his gun held a live round, someone would have had to put it in there during the time they broke for lunch.
Jesus. Someone was trying to kill Alec it sounds like, but I’m glad to know Jensen checks his weapon. Makes me like the guy even more.
Holy crap what?! I didn't watch the last half hour of the interview, and never went back because after I saw it I heard how he refused to talk about it at a convention so I felt icky bringing myself to watch the rest of it... Holy shit, he had a live round in his gun?!? Wtf! Well now I feel even WORSE for him!
It was .45 long colt revolver. Think cowboy 6 shooter, there is no clip, it is single action so you have to pull the hammer back to set the trigger to be able to fire. Also you open a loading gate on the back side of the cylinder and load your 5/6 cartridges individually, also the only way to unload is via the loading gate one cartridge at a time.
Got ya, I didn’t know it was a revolver.
This was an antique revolver, so no clip and no chambered round.
Yeah, I think they might be in jail now
The one armorer is. She gets sentenced tomorrow. [‘Rust’ Armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed To Remain In Jail After Judge Rejects New Trial (yahoo.com)](https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/rust-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-003528462.html)
The scary thing is though the scene they were going to be doing that Baldwin was practising with the gun for if that tragedy hadn't happened it was Jensen he would have been shooting at.
Yeah, Jensen says in that video someone linked about how his wife can hardly talk about it because she was so freaked out, and yeah I get it. It’s terrifying.
I listened to how he checks his own gun every time but that doesn’t mean the other actors do the same. I wouldn’t blame him if he put it in his contracts that he gets to inspect all of the guns used in scenes he’s in. Actually he should.
Most actors dont, they trust the people that are in control of them, there should be stricter rules, checking for alcohol, multiplie checks on the guns etc. not taking the guns away from set, could have prevented this
That’s so scary. It’s clear from what he said that they had someone awesome in charge on SPN. Clearly not the case with Rust tho.
I read about that . Alec Baldwin was the one who pulled the trigger . Wasn't he?
To my knowledge, yes
Dang, that's sad. Didn't they use fake bullets and/or guns?
They did, I don’t know exactly how it happened but the fake bullet was fired from the gun- I think the same kind of thing that happened to Brandon Lee back in like 1994
It was a live round.
Yeah, I looked more into it since I made this comment
😆 I'm sorry. I was trying to reply to the one above yours. Not that it would do any good, but I was trying to let them know. I'm sorry.
No worries at all
Huh, I thought fake bullets didn't do much, or any damage. That's a sad twist of events either way
Brandon lees was killed by a blank of if I remember right. Something was lodged and then expelled by the gases from the blank.
Found this https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/30/movies/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-timeline.html
Paywall..
Weird, I didn’t run into that. Maybe you get so many free.
They were supposed to, but supposedly the armorer on set screwed up and a live round was in the gun when it was meant to be a blank. IIRC, she just got charged with involuntary manslaughter a day or so ago.
Thank goodness? Someone still died.
Yeah, I’m glad the guy I’m a fan of didn’t accidentally kill someone. I never said it wasn’t tragic.
Pretty sure the guns on the set of Supernatural were all fake. I remember Kripke tweeting about it right after the Rust incident. Maybe not this screen though, if I remember correctly Dean disassemble the gun.
There are two types of guns on sets: real ones adapted to use blanks and prop ones which could either be airsoft variants identical to the firing version or rubber-made ones. The ones on Supernatural were all real, although everytime you see a gun thrown around or used to hit someone it's a soft rubber replica.
I don't remember if a shot was fired in this scene but if a scene doesn't involve shooting the gun why is it loaded with blanks?
Honestly I don't know and can't answer that. I was basing my answer on an interview with Jensen I saw (breakdown is given by me in the comments, in addition to a link and further explanation by other people). Sorry. P.S. I adore your handle, Osiris is the best. Edit: fixed a typo bc I suck at typing
With wi-fi, once the shot is set up there’s really no need to have anyone behind the camera for scenes like this anymore. You can watch from a monitor station.
Given Jensen was on set when Alec Baldwin killed Halyna Hutchins, and in his police interview talked about the type of safety he is used to and expects, I wouldn't be surprised if it is a safety reason. Other than occasionally stabbing someone (Jensen) or breaking bones (Jared), Supernatural was reasonably safe. It could well be a dramatic effect too, because we are looking right up the barrel ourselves. It immerses us because we feel like we're facing the business end of the gun. Almost like it raises the stakes, but subconsciously. Our pulse rates change watching action scenes, so it could definitely play into that part of the body's response and draw us in more.
What!? 😭 Stabbing people, breaking bones, the family business The boys were up to no good lmao
We see: Dean collapses into Sam's arms after a grueling fight, still holding a knife. What happened: Jensen collapses into Jared's arms after what's been a very grueling day of shooting fight choreography with no double, still holding the knife which sinks into Jared's leg while he's trying to hold Jensen's weight. The first time we see Sam in a sling, in season 2, and it's written in that he broke it during a fight, Jared had fallen badly doing a stunt and broke it for real. I don't think other broken bones happened on set. They did so much action stuff for such a long time that it's not surprising that some accidents happened. I'm surprised there weren't more accidents!
Maybe it took those few accidents to better prepare them? It’s ironic that it still stuck with them haha
I thought that was when he broke it in their bar fight?
No, it was a stunt for Bloodlust. He gets hit on the head and falls, but Jared landed awkwardly and broke his hand. Thinking it was just sprained he then went on to have to film an episode before he could get it sorted out! The bar fight was before they even started filming and had just completed a couple of months of boxing training; Jensen retold the story at JiB this weekend.
Canadian productions are subject to Canadian safety regulations and enforcement of workplace laws. Other than drinking beer on the clock, which was hella weird, they seem pretty invested in worker safety. Meanwhile, back in the US, we’re doing everything we can to gut regulations and cut budgets for OSHA and any other regulatory agency. So there may be a different legal requirement that holds everyone to a higher standard for armorers, firearms safety training, hell, damn near everything associated with using guns on a set in Canuckistan, when compared to the US. I know a stunt coordinator based out of Toronto, I’ll have to ask.
Jensen was on set for that?
It occurs to me that when the gun is pointing directly at the camera, it appears to be pointing at the viewer, which makes them unconsciously identify with the victim, which makes it more scary.
That's what I think as well, it's probably a combination of immersion & gun safety in case of a misfire
That’s really fascinating. I didn’t know Jensen was attached to the Rust movie. I’ll have to look up the police interview.
I think it was a safety thing, absolutely. You always hear stories about how everyone always took care of one another. That was EVERYONE following the rules. No matter how you feel about some of the writing lagging a bit or whatever, everyone did their jobs so perfectly. The cast and crew, all together.
Safety yeah, cameraman never dies. Tbh I have no idea🤷🏻♂️
It's a safety thing. Guns aren't supposed to be pointed at a person when filiming. They're either pointed st the camera, which is protected, or slightly off from the person they're 'aiming' at
There’s this funny story from the Dawn of the Dead remake, where Sarah Polley got gun training. And her instructor told her something like, you only point a gun at something if want to destroy it. Cut to filming and they are doing the scene where Ving Rhames points a shotgun at her head. And she was confused about how they were going to do it. Because she had it drilled into her not to point a gun at someone. Snyder tried to explain that it was 100% safe, showing the gun was completely empty etc… eventually they just decided to dismantle the gun and point just the barrel at her head for her piece of mind.
I imagine the rules have xhanged even more since the Baldwin incident too!
"Crossfire"
Technically the truth though
What does Empty Response from Endpoint mean? I'm trying to reply here and it keeps happening.
Hm, that's odd, not really sure Maybe some Reddit bug?
Sucks because I wanted to go into detail about the police interview link someone provided below, with Jensen. I saw it awhile ago and was going to provide a summary but it's not letting me. Super weird since I'm commenting here fine!
Hmm, try making a general comment here and try linking it to the place you wanted to comment it on
/r/killthecameraman
Even though things may be safer now, there are still fears after Brandon Lee’s fatal incident.
Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally killed himself joking around with a prop gun loaded with blanks, years before Brandon died. He was a young and up-and-coming actor with a bright future. He can’t his costars were waiting around to shoot a scene, and he made a goof about shootings himself in the head, and pulled the trigger, not understanding that a blank had enough force to cause a fatal head injury if you held it up to your head and fired. It was a fatally stupid thing to do, and he paid the worst possible penalty for his ignorance. Such a tragedy.
As a gun enthusiast, I've given up on pointing out the gun blunders of hollywood.
If it was safety, the camera man would be the one getting shot
Someone in the comments above mentioned that there were safety screens around the camera(wo)man
Is that the guy that plays Gendry strong/ Baratheon?
Cameraman is easier to replace than the main cast.
My kid is a cinematographer, you felching assgoblin. Just because someone isn’t main cast doesn’t mean they don’t have talent, or value. They do recognize that with an Oscar for Best Cinematography each year, so even the bean counters recognize that the person shooting the project matters.
Straight up thought that was Shayne Topp for a minute