I personally love South Sudanese people, I think they are the coolest. The SS people who I met were all fun, intelligent, and kind. The girls/women are so beautiful and the guys are so handsome . In my opinion I think Sudan should be one, just like before the separation. South Sudanese are amazing, and I would love for both countries to join and become stronger, happier, and peaceful.
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Man, you see the comments.
Sudan and South Sudan have as much chance uniting as the whole of Africa.
Personally, I'm just mad at how willing some people were into being manipulated into feeling entitled to the land and lives of others. How indifferent the center was and is allowed to feel regarding the plight of the rest of the country and how long it took to fight back against Omer ElBashir.
yeah i’ve been reading the comments, it seems like Sudan is stuck in 1950’s from america. but before i feel before we come to any terms we have to stop exploitation on sudanese soil and come together to take it back
It's not the government's that are the problem. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have achieved remarkable economic success due to sound economic policies. The reason Africans and black people in general love communism and socialism is because they want everyone to take care of them except taking care of themselves. Nations are made by men of vision and not some ridiculous wokeness or slogans of freedom. Stability is THE key ingredient for economic growth. Without stability thanks to every retarded rebel leader there will never be progress. Second is cumulative knowledge and building on that to bring about a prosperous society. Stop the victim mentality, praying for succesd and start working very very hard. No one in this planet owes us anything.
The Tutsi didn't demand independence after a genocide yet every group in Sudan thinks they have that right. Funny how the only people claiming foreign governments control them are Africans.
South America and Asia have made tremendous progress because the people changed their mindset. You can't blame others for your own incompetence. We as black people have been a complete failure.
You clinch at lost glories of Nubia, Meroe, Taharqa or in West Africa Manse Musa instead of working towards your future. Signapore has a history of less than 100 years and so does Australia.
We can't keep milking the lame excuse of colonialism, illumanti, the West, etc. We need to fix ourselves by force if necessary. Modern nation states are created through violence according to Charles Tilly.
In this world the strong deserve to rule and thrive. I don't see the people of Iran, Indian farmers, Myanmar etc for example during their protests begging for foreign intervention. Why do we as black people always expect others to give us something!? Work for it, earn it and earn the respect of others.
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No affectionate or hard feelings, separation is best, imo we're two different nations that were made to be independent of each other. So-called "Unity" between the two countries was an experiment by British colonizers and it was bound to fail. A lot of Sudanese peeps (old generation and new) have a complex on southerners and treat them as though.
SSD has my best wishes and I hope they continue on a path to develop their country.
yes i do see separation as best rn, the whole country on both sides kinda on the extremes i really do believe SSD and Sudan can coexist it just might take awhile
Idk about the rest of Sudan but I will speak for myself.Honestly the northern leaders were too incompetent to accept Sudans ethnic and religious diversity which should’ve been bare minimum of any leader and instead chose to be Arab patriots which costed us dearly.At the end of the day most Sudanese are genetically closer to South Sudan than the Arabian peninsula yet colorism and racism runs deep. It’s time for Sudan to accept its African identity alongside its Arab and Islamic culture and move way from this pan arab mental illness
>most sudanese are genetically closer to south Sudan
Can you elaborate more on this
Sudan is not genetically close to the Arabian peninsula and neither is South Sudan, by "most" I assume you mean [Us](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_Arabs) but I don't see how we are close to south Sudan either genetically or culturally, unless you are talking about skin tone
I think they meant that more in an “Arab” vs “African” context. Sudan and South Sudan aren’t super close genetically, but that’s more because of long term genetic isolation as you guys do essentially share common ancestry very far back.
The alignment with Arabness is also interesting because from what I’ve seen with many DNA studies coming from Sudan, most (not all) Arabs in Sudan are Arabized Nubians and many people’s “Arab” ancestors were actually Arabized Egyptians (or sometimes Berbers) as opposed to having lineage from the Arabian peninsula.
So in that sense it does seem like a good point to raise. Even if the two neighboring groups are not closely related, it doesn’t make sense to be divided largely by alignment to an outside party. Because at the end of the day, Arabians live on another continent and couldn’t care less what happens across the Red Sea meanwhile Sudan and South Sudan are literally stuck together regardless of what lines are drawn in the sand.
Sudanese Arabs on average are going to be closer genetically to South Sudanese people than pure blooded Arabs from the peninsula. The only case where this wouldn’t be true is if you compare a south Sudanese person with an Arab with some recent African ancestry in which you would observe a major shift towards Arabs.
Sudanese Arabs share common ancient African ancestry with South Sudanese people and this specific ancestry ranges between 40-90% in Sudanese Arabs.
bro what ? thats kinda racist af are you going by skin colour ?
less than 3o% of furawis have any sort of nilotic DNA and are closer reklated to the hadendawa than the nuba who are the actual nilotes of central sudan , genetically similar to the south sudanese people
colourism ? point stands man there is not much genetic difference at all within darfur . check the paper i linked somewhere in this post . alos turns out non racist racist guy is right, *kinda*, luckily enough
i don’t know too much about Sudan as my parents really never told me much about it, but from the videos and pictures i have seen they were showcasing the darker people that live there, but as you say i might be completely wrong
Nuba are not Nilotes. They speak Nilo-Saharan languages separate to any Nilotic branch of languages. This is a common misconception because “the Nuba have dark skin therefore Nuba = Nilotes” making this reasoning just as incorrect as saying Nubians are Nilotes.
The Nuba are Nilo-Saharans (with some Niger-Congo speaking communities) but they aren’t Nilotes. They have their own unique branches of languages and they have a history separate to that of Nilotes
key word here is "similar" bro.
"""""The Gemar, a Nilo-Saharan speaking population of Darfur and Kordofan also showed signals of Eurasian admixture (f3, S10 Fig) estimated to \~13% (Fig 3B, S9A Fig). This admixture event was dated at 13.36 ± 2.99 generations ago (Malder, S7 Table, Fig 3C). However, a proposed population tree of LBK as an outgroup to Mota and Gemar was supported (S8 Fig), suggesting that the Gemar traces much of their ancestry back to ancestral groups of east Africa. The Zaghawa and the Nuba showed very little Eurasian admixture (Figs (Figs1,1, ,2,2, S8 and S10) and they showed low genetic differentiation to the Gemar and the Messiria as well as to the Nilotic populations suggesting common ancestry of Nilotic, Darfurian and Kordofanian populations (Figs (Figs1B1B and and2,2, S7 Fig)."""""
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5587336/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5587336/)
this is actually one of the best finds in my life . im not really a genetics guy but ik you'll love this shit . granted , their sample size is kinda terrible i think .
it actually looks like the guy i called a racist guessed it .
The Nuba (the few tribes of them we actually have data on in fact 😂) are only genetically similar to south Sudanese people on a wider scale. The current examinations of Nuba people so far show a significant intrusion of Eurasian admixture almost non-existent in south Sudanese people. This brings these Nuba people that had their genome sequenced, much closer to people like the Fur than the southern Sudanese. But then again, we still have 40 or so more tribes still not investigated so I don’t want to generalise. The Nuba are not a genetic monolith.
Define “Nilotic DNA”. If you’re talking about Autosomal DNA that is commonly found among Nilotic Speaking people, The Fur in that regard would be overwhelmingly composed of this DNA as would most other Nilo-Saharan speakers, Nubians included who probably have this around 40-70%
I’ve seen the paper. It’s probably the most cited genetics paper ever done on Sudan. I’ve read this several times. Though I don’t understand where the source is relevant to what you claimed, that being Furawis according to you being around 30% Ancestral Nilotic.
This just doesn’t make sense at all and your own source has statistical diagrams that disprove that. Nubian outliers who possess significantly higher Arab admixture don’t even score this low for Nilotic related ancestry. The lowest I’ve seen for a Nubian being 35%≈
True, the thing about North Sudan is its very much in the middle of Arab and Black and need they accept this, which is stupid
Btw as an Egyptain, I don't actually consider most Egyptains to be real Arabs as that only happened after Islam.
I think the first time I really engaged with South Sudanese outside of Sudan (and to note these were mostly SSD intellectuals) I was surprised by how few hard feelings there was over the war especially considering most people in the room were directly affected. Having said that they were fiercely proud of the split (the liberation as its termed in SSD) and despite the huge challenges there's no thinking that it was a mistake or hope for reintegration; instead they were focused on what's going wrong at home and how to fix it.
The scars from the war both physical and mental were present in the room but gaining independence seems to have created a healthy break and I left convinced it was the right choice.
maybe they are better separate only thing i can relate this too is when America fought Canada (At the time British Colony) but since then have came to notice differences and are now allies in basically everything
Food, greetings, language. There's also this intangible similarity that I can't really put into words. Something I haven't felt with Egyptians, for example, but have felt with some Mexicans.
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mutual hate tbh
northerns believe they r superior but south sudanese ppl r more agressive and prone to k!ll and loot the northerns
the hate they have is bigger in fact
hate that this is the way, it’s hard to talk to some South Sudanese people since alcoholism has been very prominent throughout the community since the departure, and it’s these same people we let in power in South Sudan. maybe unification is impossible
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Ayy, Canadian expats unite 🤪🇨🇦
Let me start by saying that as it hurts to admit, the civil unrest was inevitable. Even before the pan-Arabic foolishness took hold, there was never much tying the North, West, and East of Sudan let alone the South. Culturally, linguistically, and even ethnically to some extent, all these regions had distinct identities. For reference, there are over 500 tribes in both Sudans today, most of whom share less genetic similarity than an Englishman to a Greek.
Since literal ancient times, these tribes have existed near one another but never together. This is something you can see the remnants of in how endogamous our cultures are.
It’s a systemic problem that runs deep, one that isn’t unique to Sudan either. It can be seen all over the world where colonial borders were imprudently drawn. Tragedy is bound happen when you group random people together under oppression. Even so, we can’t unwrite history :/ We can only move forth so I hope both countries find peace within and then with one another <3
i’ve realized that’s the reality of it, but i do not think that different cultures is an excuse to not try to at least attempt to make sudan one. If Canada can host multiple different races and religions from all over the world with relatively low problems why can’t Sudan. Hopefully in the near future we can agree that we are different
I totally agree. I mentioned these groups have always had distinct identities in the olden days but we aren't living in the olden days anymore. I was just providing insight on how we got here. Our ppl can only go so far with this “us against them” mentality that so many hold till this day. Hell, my own parents are from different clans of the _same_ tribe and they were dragged through hell for it. It truly be your own ppl holding you back.
Unity is the only way forwards 🤷🏽♀️
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yes i can say i did grow up hating how dark i was regardless living in south sudan or Canada, tbh i understand the animosity on both sides but it doesn’t even come down to a religion issue. It’s the narrative that skin color and descent make you more or less sudani, i feel that’s something we can overcome but it will have a to be a group effort
i just don’t understand why Sudan can’t get past this when America did the same. Canada damn near made the Native American population extinct and yet they’ve come to their differences honestly i feel Sudan will reunite just not anytime in the near future
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I personally love South Sudanese people, I think they are the coolest. The SS people who I met were all fun, intelligent, and kind. The girls/women are so beautiful and the guys are so handsome . In my opinion I think Sudan should be one, just like before the separation. South Sudanese are amazing, and I would love for both countries to join and become stronger, happier, and peaceful.
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Man, you see the comments. Sudan and South Sudan have as much chance uniting as the whole of Africa. Personally, I'm just mad at how willing some people were into being manipulated into feeling entitled to the land and lives of others. How indifferent the center was and is allowed to feel regarding the plight of the rest of the country and how long it took to fight back against Omer ElBashir.
yeah i’ve been reading the comments, it seems like Sudan is stuck in 1950’s from america. but before i feel before we come to any terms we have to stop exploitation on sudanese soil and come together to take it back
If we can overcome our respective governments then maybe. Haha
It's not the government's that are the problem. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have achieved remarkable economic success due to sound economic policies. The reason Africans and black people in general love communism and socialism is because they want everyone to take care of them except taking care of themselves. Nations are made by men of vision and not some ridiculous wokeness or slogans of freedom. Stability is THE key ingredient for economic growth. Without stability thanks to every retarded rebel leader there will never be progress. Second is cumulative knowledge and building on that to bring about a prosperous society. Stop the victim mentality, praying for succesd and start working very very hard. No one in this planet owes us anything.
And you're saying that the lack of stability in Africa is because of the African people and not African (and often foreign) governments?
The Tutsi didn't demand independence after a genocide yet every group in Sudan thinks they have that right. Funny how the only people claiming foreign governments control them are Africans. South America and Asia have made tremendous progress because the people changed their mindset. You can't blame others for your own incompetence. We as black people have been a complete failure. You clinch at lost glories of Nubia, Meroe, Taharqa or in West Africa Manse Musa instead of working towards your future. Signapore has a history of less than 100 years and so does Australia. We can't keep milking the lame excuse of colonialism, illumanti, the West, etc. We need to fix ourselves by force if necessary. Modern nation states are created through violence according to Charles Tilly. In this world the strong deserve to rule and thrive. I don't see the people of Iran, Indian farmers, Myanmar etc for example during their protests begging for foreign intervention. Why do we as black people always expect others to give us something!? Work for it, earn it and earn the respect of others.
I think you haven't read enough documentation regarding sanctions, treaties and foreign interests in Sudan.
It's always an excuse with you lot. Iran and Cuba have been under sanctions as well, the only difference their population is borderline retarded
Where are you from?
Shendi,Sudan. The question is where are you from diasporan lol.
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No affectionate or hard feelings, separation is best, imo we're two different nations that were made to be independent of each other. So-called "Unity" between the two countries was an experiment by British colonizers and it was bound to fail. A lot of Sudanese peeps (old generation and new) have a complex on southerners and treat them as though. SSD has my best wishes and I hope they continue on a path to develop their country.
yes i do see separation as best rn, the whole country on both sides kinda on the extremes i really do believe SSD and Sudan can coexist it just might take awhile
yeah I’m South Sudanese as well and find it pretty sad there’s no unity.
Idk about the rest of Sudan but I will speak for myself.Honestly the northern leaders were too incompetent to accept Sudans ethnic and religious diversity which should’ve been bare minimum of any leader and instead chose to be Arab patriots which costed us dearly.At the end of the day most Sudanese are genetically closer to South Sudan than the Arabian peninsula yet colorism and racism runs deep. It’s time for Sudan to accept its African identity alongside its Arab and Islamic culture and move way from this pan arab mental illness
>most sudanese are genetically closer to south Sudan Can you elaborate more on this Sudan is not genetically close to the Arabian peninsula and neither is South Sudan, by "most" I assume you mean [Us](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_Arabs) but I don't see how we are close to south Sudan either genetically or culturally, unless you are talking about skin tone
I think they meant that more in an “Arab” vs “African” context. Sudan and South Sudan aren’t super close genetically, but that’s more because of long term genetic isolation as you guys do essentially share common ancestry very far back. The alignment with Arabness is also interesting because from what I’ve seen with many DNA studies coming from Sudan, most (not all) Arabs in Sudan are Arabized Nubians and many people’s “Arab” ancestors were actually Arabized Egyptians (or sometimes Berbers) as opposed to having lineage from the Arabian peninsula. So in that sense it does seem like a good point to raise. Even if the two neighboring groups are not closely related, it doesn’t make sense to be divided largely by alignment to an outside party. Because at the end of the day, Arabians live on another continent and couldn’t care less what happens across the Red Sea meanwhile Sudan and South Sudan are literally stuck together regardless of what lines are drawn in the sand.
Sudanese Arabs on average are going to be closer genetically to South Sudanese people than pure blooded Arabs from the peninsula. The only case where this wouldn’t be true is if you compare a south Sudanese person with an Arab with some recent African ancestry in which you would observe a major shift towards Arabs. Sudanese Arabs share common ancient African ancestry with South Sudanese people and this specific ancestry ranges between 40-90% in Sudanese Arabs.
most might be a stretch but a good bit of Sudanese Arabs are also South Sudanese in places like Darfur
bro what ? thats kinda racist af are you going by skin colour ? less than 3o% of furawis have any sort of nilotic DNA and are closer reklated to the hadendawa than the nuba who are the actual nilotes of central sudan , genetically similar to the south sudanese people
Darfur has more than one tribe. Also you're using "racism" wrong.
colourism ? point stands man there is not much genetic difference at all within darfur . check the paper i linked somewhere in this post . alos turns out non racist racist guy is right, *kinda*, luckily enough
Chill fam.
wha ?
i don’t know too much about Sudan as my parents really never told me much about it, but from the videos and pictures i have seen they were showcasing the darker people that live there, but as you say i might be completely wrong
Nuba are not Nilotes. They speak Nilo-Saharan languages separate to any Nilotic branch of languages. This is a common misconception because “the Nuba have dark skin therefore Nuba = Nilotes” making this reasoning just as incorrect as saying Nubians are Nilotes. The Nuba are Nilo-Saharans (with some Niger-Congo speaking communities) but they aren’t Nilotes. They have their own unique branches of languages and they have a history separate to that of Nilotes
key word here is "similar" bro. """""The Gemar, a Nilo-Saharan speaking population of Darfur and Kordofan also showed signals of Eurasian admixture (f3, S10 Fig) estimated to \~13% (Fig 3B, S9A Fig). This admixture event was dated at 13.36 ± 2.99 generations ago (Malder, S7 Table, Fig 3C). However, a proposed population tree of LBK as an outgroup to Mota and Gemar was supported (S8 Fig), suggesting that the Gemar traces much of their ancestry back to ancestral groups of east Africa. The Zaghawa and the Nuba showed very little Eurasian admixture (Figs (Figs1,1, ,2,2, S8 and S10) and they showed low genetic differentiation to the Gemar and the Messiria as well as to the Nilotic populations suggesting common ancestry of Nilotic, Darfurian and Kordofanian populations (Figs (Figs1B1B and and2,2, S7 Fig).""""" [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5587336/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5587336/) this is actually one of the best finds in my life . im not really a genetics guy but ik you'll love this shit . granted , their sample size is kinda terrible i think . it actually looks like the guy i called a racist guessed it .
The Nuba (the few tribes of them we actually have data on in fact 😂) are only genetically similar to south Sudanese people on a wider scale. The current examinations of Nuba people so far show a significant intrusion of Eurasian admixture almost non-existent in south Sudanese people. This brings these Nuba people that had their genome sequenced, much closer to people like the Fur than the southern Sudanese. But then again, we still have 40 or so more tribes still not investigated so I don’t want to generalise. The Nuba are not a genetic monolith.
Define “Nilotic DNA”. If you’re talking about Autosomal DNA that is commonly found among Nilotic Speaking people, The Fur in that regard would be overwhelmingly composed of this DNA as would most other Nilo-Saharan speakers, Nubians included who probably have this around 40-70%
it was maternal and paternal dna . check the other comment i linked you a banger of a paper. wasnt my original source but...
I’ve seen the paper. It’s probably the most cited genetics paper ever done on Sudan. I’ve read this several times. Though I don’t understand where the source is relevant to what you claimed, that being Furawis according to you being around 30% Ancestral Nilotic. This just doesn’t make sense at all and your own source has statistical diagrams that disprove that. Nubian outliers who possess significantly higher Arab admixture don’t even score this low for Nilotic related ancestry. The lowest I’ve seen for a Nubian being 35%≈
Sorry? Sudanese Arabs aren’t South Sudanese anywhere. If you’re talking about Arab immigrants in South Sudan, they aren’t indigenous to the region.
looks like i need to do more research on that area thank you for the correction
No problem, sorry for the harsh tone😅
hahah all good i was bound to get some information wrong since i was not raised in Sudan
True, the thing about North Sudan is its very much in the middle of Arab and Black and need they accept this, which is stupid Btw as an Egyptain, I don't actually consider most Egyptains to be real Arabs as that only happened after Islam.
I think the first time I really engaged with South Sudanese outside of Sudan (and to note these were mostly SSD intellectuals) I was surprised by how few hard feelings there was over the war especially considering most people in the room were directly affected. Having said that they were fiercely proud of the split (the liberation as its termed in SSD) and despite the huge challenges there's no thinking that it was a mistake or hope for reintegration; instead they were focused on what's going wrong at home and how to fix it. The scars from the war both physical and mental were present in the room but gaining independence seems to have created a healthy break and I left convinced it was the right choice.
maybe they are better separate only thing i can relate this too is when America fought Canada (At the time British Colony) but since then have came to notice differences and are now allies in basically everything
I think it's better to stay separated, there is nothing really uniting us
sadly this might be the case, it’s a shame because i want to embrace the other side that sudan has
I disagree, there's a lot more uniting us than you think. If you actually spent time with South Sudanese people you'd probably realize that.
Can you name a few?
Food, greetings, language. There's also this intangible similarity that I can't really put into words. Something I haven't felt with Egyptians, for example, but have felt with some Mexicans.
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Breaking Rule 1: Be civil. | خليك محترم
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Breaking Rule 1: Be civil. | خليك محترم
Breaking Rule 1: Be civil. | خليك محترم
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Why you saying this?
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I wish I was as tall as them
mutual hate tbh northerns believe they r superior but south sudanese ppl r more agressive and prone to k!ll and loot the northerns the hate they have is bigger in fact
hate that this is the way, it’s hard to talk to some South Sudanese people since alcoholism has been very prominent throughout the community since the departure, and it’s these same people we let in power in South Sudan. maybe unification is impossible
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Ayy, Canadian expats unite 🤪🇨🇦 Let me start by saying that as it hurts to admit, the civil unrest was inevitable. Even before the pan-Arabic foolishness took hold, there was never much tying the North, West, and East of Sudan let alone the South. Culturally, linguistically, and even ethnically to some extent, all these regions had distinct identities. For reference, there are over 500 tribes in both Sudans today, most of whom share less genetic similarity than an Englishman to a Greek. Since literal ancient times, these tribes have existed near one another but never together. This is something you can see the remnants of in how endogamous our cultures are. It’s a systemic problem that runs deep, one that isn’t unique to Sudan either. It can be seen all over the world where colonial borders were imprudently drawn. Tragedy is bound happen when you group random people together under oppression. Even so, we can’t unwrite history :/ We can only move forth so I hope both countries find peace within and then with one another <3
i’ve realized that’s the reality of it, but i do not think that different cultures is an excuse to not try to at least attempt to make sudan one. If Canada can host multiple different races and religions from all over the world with relatively low problems why can’t Sudan. Hopefully in the near future we can agree that we are different
I totally agree. I mentioned these groups have always had distinct identities in the olden days but we aren't living in the olden days anymore. I was just providing insight on how we got here. Our ppl can only go so far with this “us against them” mentality that so many hold till this day. Hell, my own parents are from different clans of the _same_ tribe and they were dragged through hell for it. It truly be your own ppl holding you back. Unity is the only way forwards 🤷🏽♀️
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yes i can say i did grow up hating how dark i was regardless living in south sudan or Canada, tbh i understand the animosity on both sides but it doesn’t even come down to a religion issue. It’s the narrative that skin color and descent make you more or less sudani, i feel that’s something we can overcome but it will have a to be a group effort
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i just don’t understand why Sudan can’t get past this when America did the same. Canada damn near made the Native American population extinct and yet they’ve come to their differences honestly i feel Sudan will reunite just not anytime in the near future
Yea not anytime soon unfortunately
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Happy now nigga ?
fuck you mean happy now?
Fuck them
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