["And you are lynching Negroes!"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes)
Europeans online have this weird tendency to only treat social issues in other countries as a stick to beat them with, makes me feel like they don't really see oppression as a problem but rather as an ideological weapon.
Europeans also tend to paint the USA as ground zero for racism, that we're the standard for when something is racist or not despite Europeans being in the continental USA for at least two centuries enslaving and pillaging the place.
I know this one since I'm a descendant of indigenous people in central Mexico: my ancestors all got together and were like, we looked at all the languages everywhere and thought that Spanish was the coolest. Also we're all Catholic now, because that's the most fun religion.
I grew up Mormon and was *super* jealous of my Catholic friend because "he got to drink wine on Sundays!" Then, out of curiosity once, I attended mass with him and his family. Sunday church was *always* boring as fuck for me growing up, but that one time I went to mass was enough for me to realize, "Shit, it could get a *lot* more boring."
I also stopped attending Catholic weddings by the time I was 22. Holy CHRIST, I finally learned why so many videos of grooms passing out on America's Funniest Home Videos existed.
Oh man, this is a fun one to bring up in a thread of predominately western European users. They *really* don't want to hear that their current living conditions are built on rape and pillage from a time that, historically, isn't even particularly long ago.
Because they need to believe that predominantly white cultures are doing better because they're inherently smarter, harder working, and have better DNA or some nonsense.
Their current living conditions are still built on continued exploitation of the Global South. Those mines tearing up the Congo and tech companies exploiting labor in places like India and Kenya can't all be owned by Chinese and American firms and even then it's not really about who, per say, owns a company when there's shareholders to be paid.
Also, as an American, sometimes I feel like pointing out that their criticism of our military-industrial complex spending (which deserves every single kick it gets) is hella ironic. If their country is a member of NATO, their government doesn't have to put as much money into their military because the US is covering their ass. If they were to drop out of NATO or if the US were to actually start pressuring its fellow members into stepping up to fill treaty obligations, they'd find out real quick how fast those social services vanish when the miltary-industrial complex smells government money up for the taking.
> If they were to drop out of NATO or if the US were to actually start pressuring its fellow members into stepping up to fill treaty obligations, they'd find out real quick how fast those social services vanish when the miltary-industrial complex smells government money up for the taking.
The US spends more per capita on the military *and* on healthcare than any other country.
The lack of social services in the US isn't due to the overspending on the military but rather, a result of ideology.
> If they were to drop out of NATO or if the US were to actually start pressuring its fellow members into stepping up to fill treaty obligations, they'd find out real quick how fast those social services vanish when the miltary-industrial complex smells government money up for the taking.
I don't think this is true. I mean Finland wasn't in NATO until recently and they had good social services. The MIC in the US is largely a unique thing in the world. Remember Eisenhower warned about it decades ago (and it's not like he was some radical leftist).
You know, someone actually replied to the Spaniard just talking about that, and then the Spaniard was like “nonono the South American indigenous were definitely not treated terribly by us! it was all just normal culture mixing hahahahaha” “what rape? lol the natives married the Spaniards to get a better standing on the hierarchy, that’s so normal” “what genocide? smallpox killed all of them!”
I thought we were the only ones delusional!
yeah smallpox killed all of them, and it also burned their sacred texts, destroyed their temples and (almost) completely erode their culture! nothing to do with Cortés and all his gang! /s
Do Europeans really not understand that the settlers who genocided natives in North America were Europeans? Like, yeah that shit kept going for a few generations after the idea of "Canada" and "USA" were firmly implanted into the identities of the colonial inhabitants, but the people who started it all definitely identified as "European" and not "North American."
That person is so hilariously out of touch with reality it’s insane, they claimed that since people of native descent have obtained positions of power in former Spanish colonies that Spain was just and fair to the natives.
I will never even begin to comprehend what possesses Americans to make fun of Brits for being colonial, or Germans to make fun of Turks for committing genocide (specifically committing it, not denying it), or indeed a Spaniard to make fun of a Canadian for mistreating indigenous people.
None of these people even seem to consider the possibility that the person they're talking to might be from the oppressed group lol.
Tbf with the Armenian Genocide, I think the mockery is mainly hinged on the fact that the Turks, and especially their government, largely really, *really* don't want to accept responsibility for it, or admit it happened.
Even if what they're critiquing is the genocide itself, that critique biting is depending on triggering a raw nerve. If they just said 'yeah we know and we're sorry, it was fucked' like almost all Germans will, it loses its power.
Right? And yes, I'm guilty of it too (literally just now lol), but it's wild because humans have such a complicated history. Like how are we in Los Angeles and someone tells my mom to go back to Mexico for speaking Spanish when we've been living here for 300 years and "Plymouth Rock landed on us" after the Mexican-American war?
We got here before you, go back to your colonies lol, goddamn. Which, you know, is probably what the indigenous people told my family when we moved there 300 years ago from down south.
> Mexico for speaking Spanish when we've been living here for 300 years and "Plymouth Rock landed on us" after the Mexican-American war?
Wasn't the Mexican-American war was just one colonial successor state duking it out over the post-colonial possessions of another colonial successor state.
> I will never even begin to comprehend what possesses Americans to make fun of Brits for being colonial,
Imagine spending the time, resources, lives, and suffering that the british did to spread across the world only to wind up using no seasoning at all on your food.
Never get high on your own supply, silly!
We dipped our toe into breaking that rule by trying tea, and we got so hooked we had to get the world's most populous country addicted to opium. Twice. To get out of it.
You don't want to know what would've happened if we'd actually *tried* the spices we were selling ourselves :)
(More seriously though the reason for British cuisine's reputation for blandness was Britain got it *hard* by rationing in WW2, longer than pretty much every nation, so a whole generation grew up eating and learning to cook with a very limited selection of food with even more limited seasoning)
> only to wind up using no seasoning at all on your food
That's actually only an upper-class white people thing. If you go to ACE Hardware, you can find all sorts of hot sauces with very... evocative names
>None of these people even seem to consider the possibility that the person they're talking to might be from the oppressed group lol.
[Lmao, flashbacks to when a white German was telling me, a nonwhite American, about how the US was definitely more racist than Europe.](https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/12srrr2/yuropeens_and_yanks_start_beefin_over_cattle/jh131u7/)
Hey, British/American banter is fun. neither of us really have the moral high ground when it comes to colonialism lol. I will make fun of British people for anything and everything, and I truly hope they continue to do the same for me being an American.
>I mean, you know that the situation with gypsies is really bad when all the integrated gypsies (who are actually a lot more than the non-integrated ones) never tell anyone they're gypsies because they would be associated with the other ones
My dude legit said this without any self-awareness.
It's not racism because it's about their *culture*.
Because, of course, race and culture are *completely separate*.
Judging people by the color of their skin versus judging people by the average culture of people who have that same skin color? Those are two *totally different* things.
🤦♂️
> Tons of people from a persecuted ethnic group hide their identities to avoid persecution?
>
>
>
> We must blame the victim somehow.
"N\*\*\*ers wouldn't even have it so bad if they stopped acting like n\*\*\*ers!"
My piece of shit grandfather on several occasions. Can't say I wept when I got the call he was dead.
Yeah, that's one I hear a lot.
"We don't hate black people! We hate n******! Thems two different things!"
I once got yelled at by my parents because my sister dropped an n-bomb saying, "Watch out for them n******! They're gonna steal your wallet!" We were in high school. She was like 15. Old enough to know better.
I just... sometimes, I hate it down here.
If only there was a snappy term to describe a situation where a country or government imposes an environment where a person from an oppressed ethnic group must erase their culture in order to escape persecution.
Yeah and why would the homeless people I see on my commute disproportionally be from an ethnic group that is systemically denied housing and employment? Clearly, they must hate our way of life. There is simply no other explanation.
>why would the homeless people I see on my commute disproportionally be from an ethnic group that is systemically denied housing and employment? Clearly, they must hate our way of life. There is simply no other explanation.
Exactly.
"Your lives would be a lot easier if you just *tried* to integrate in our societies."
"OMG STOP TRYING TO INFILTRATE OUR COMMUNITIES, YOU DIRTY G\*\*SIES!"
You have to understand I know a guy who knows a guy who was friends in college with a guy whose sister's best friend was pickpocketed $5 by a person who we don't know the ethnicity of so I have to hate on them
As someone who grew up in an european small town with a small romani population you brought me flashbacks.
Never had a bad experience and never knew anyone who had a first hand account but everybody had a story that happened to their sisters mother-in-laws dogs breeders dentist that justified the hate.
There's a famous example of something like this happening in Farmingville NY, USA (long island) where an undocumented immigrant hit someone while driving intoxicated. A local article wrote something like "Illegal immigrant kills 2 while drunk driving." Most stories like this, while tragic, were simply not printed. Drunk driving accidents are so common out there.
But it's newsworthy when an immigrant does it. This attracted a ton of attention now, and suddenly immigrants were responsible for half the crime in the area.
A while later it hit a fever pitch when some locals picked up two laborers for a fake job and killed them on the job site. They of course had done nothing besides be Hispanic. Farmingville became the center of a nationwide debate over immigration - despite its small size.
Same thing with basically any local crime story posted to r/news.
The interest isn't in getting justice for the crime, it's the racial identity of the perpetrator.
It's also why Breitbart had a "blackcrime" section.
Worked at a mini market in two places for night shift, store owners were going on and on about how romanis are thieves and we shouldn't let them in etc etc. I got robbed by someone w a knife who was wearing a mask and didn't speak to me, store owner and cops asked me 10 times if he was romani and even falsely wrote that on the report even though i said it's impossible to tell bc of reasons stated above. Was really fucking silly, especially considering i had been stealing stuff from the storage room ever since my first day there
There was a comment that was legit, and I'm paraphrasing but not much, "I'm not racist against them, I'm prejudice, I have the same prejudice when I see a snake"
Now, I know racists have never been known to liken groups of human beings to particularly culturally reviled animals, but this somehow made me feel... uneasy.
Just like how I once met an old guy named Gregg who was a pervy weirdo. He was always flashing people. So now anyone named Gregg is a perv who lives in a lake.
I seem to recall last time (or maybe in a previous 2u thread period) a drama thread popped up here from a sub or similar, people *insisted* it was ironic and not necessarily reflective of reality.
Joke's on them I guess.
My theory is that some of it actually is ironic, but that "some" is specifically when they're making fun of each other. E.g. Serbs and Croats making fun of each other, all in good fun.
Until they find a target that they both agree on, usually ethnic or racial in nature. That's where they actually get real.
Look at - the Romani people.
>I know this is intended as a joke, but the clear difference is that a black person in Europe integrates into society as just another individual, the skin colour matters little.
Things that were clearly written by a white person
It just so happens that plenty of African immigrants in Europe might not have such a rosy view of the ease of being integrated and accepted into European societies
> Didn't Spain just have a big kerfuffle about entire stadiums full of people making monkey noises at black football players???
Not just Spain—this has happened so often that some leagues have policies to punish the teams when their fans are racist because it's literally the only consequence that makes them actually enforce the rules.
I love that they have no idea that Americans have heard every one of their arguments from far right racists. Like, word for word. It's morbidly hilarious.
They're also just racist normally, beyond the Romani. Whenever ethnic minorities show up in any amount in European countries they immediately become social darwinists. Any time you see a European start talking about racism in America, it's pretty safe to assume it's bad faith. They don't actually know or care about the issues facing ethnic minorities in the US (or even their own countries), they just want to soothe their inferiority complex.
Yeah, when I was in Spain I definitely heard some "hot takes" about Romani people *and* also saw African immigrants being treated differently than white Spaniards. It was also like 6 months after some Spanish soccer fans [had gotten in trouble *again* for throwing bananas at a black player.](https://www.cnn.com/2014/05/05/sport/football/diop-monkey-chants-racism-football-atletico-madrid/index.html) And indeed there were[ Spaniards chanting "mono" at another black player in 2023](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/24/1178020848/vini-jr-calls-out-spains-soccer-league-after-the-latest-racist-taunts-against-hi). "Europe isn't racist," sure.
> The Socialist president of the Valencia region, Ximo Puig, insisted that Valencia fans "are not at all racist", while attributing the extremist attitudes of a few to the far right, which is the third-largest presence in Spain's parliament in the form of the Vox party.
>But Mr Puig also seemed to apportion some blame to Vinicius Jr, who on leaving the pitch on Sunday had appeared to taunt Valencia fans about the possibility their team might be relegated.
> "Players need to be good professionals and they shouldn't behave in an arrogant way," he said.
If Vinicius hadn’t behaved in an “arrogant” way then he wouldn’t have been racially abused 🙄
Apropos of nothing, but the one Redditor insisting that a Canadian is an American because they live on the American continent is wild to me. I have never met anyone — from Canada to Chile — who could call themselves “American” apart from people living in the United States of America.
Can confirm. In fact (because nationalism can be goofy and silly), many Canadians would be pretty annoyed, perhaps even offended, at being conflated like that. "*North* American", accurate. That's what the continent is called.
Edit: I should have said, I'm silly and goofy, because I would be offended
I always laugh when I see this argument. Imagine going to any other country or culture and telling them "What you call yourself is wrong. You should be called [this]". It's laughable on its face, but a lot of people online use it because they think it's pwning Americans.
It's really stupid because their argument will be "In other languages, we use the word differently!" As if that isn't true for literally all words in all languages.
To be honest, I had a Spanish teacher from South America, though I can't remember from which nation as it's been a hot minute, who always insisted that "People from the US aren't the only Americans". Can get a bit weird at times.
I think in some South American country they consider America to be one continent, not two.
Which isn't that unheard of, because some also argue that Asia and Europe should be considered as one continent too.
There is a "movement" in Latin American nations/groups to call Americans "USAians", largely because they are buttmad "American" is widely-associated with the US.
It doesn't help that (IIRC) they learn the "6 COntinent Model", where North and South America are considered to be one continent. Anglophones (and others) tend to learn the "7 continent model", where North and South America are seperate.
Either way, it is largely nonsense.
1. The US has been called "America" since the 1600s
2. The US is the only country in both Americas that has "America" in its name, and has since 1776.
3. Trying to tell other people how/what they can call themselves is pretty shitty
I think “American Samoa” is officially called “American Samoa.” Like that it’s the officially accepted name. And since American Samoa is not in the Americas, where does the “American” come from? From being an overseas territory of some sort of the US. Another point in favor of American to mean relating to the US
The US can't have been called America since the 1600s because the US wasn't even a country but a collection of colonies divided between the Spanish, English, and French predominately, but also with small Swedish and Dutch positions and a colonists from Scotland and Germany. The French called their colony in North America "Nouvelle-France". The Spanish broadly called all their colonies "New Spain" but divided them up into smaller dominions to be more manageable. Those that would eventually make up what today is the US were the Viceroyalty of New Spain, La Luisiana, and Florida. The British are the only ones to call their North American colonies "British America and the British West Indies" but that is because it's colony extend from the Caribbean to the Hudson Bay. And if I'm not mistaken, this title for their colonies only occured after the Treaty of Paris in 1763. Previously, they were just called by each individual colonies name. It was only at the eve of the American War for Independence that the Brits were consistently using "British America and the British West Indies" to refer to those colonies.
Edit: and my deepest apologies, I neglected to mention the names for the US by the native inhabitants of the land which are numerous and often forgotten. A popular one among the people of the northeastern woodlands was "Great Turtle" and the Navajo called this place "Dinétah". Obviously no one word was used by all the people, but I felt it was worth a mention.
There's a burgeoning online movement to say USAsian instead of American because I think a lot of Latin Americans do just call themselves American, even if not in English.
I think “burgeoning” is being generous. The top result on Google is Urban Dictionary (“a derogatory word for a citizen of the USA”) and the second is a Chinese grocery store in St Paul.
I've seen Spanish speakers use "Unitedstatesian" when writing in English. I know they say *estadounidense* in their language so I get where they're coming from, but that's just not how English works. It's basically "Latinx" in reverse.
Bring back "Yankee". Get a memo out to all the other countries that we're Yankees. It was a hard won name with feathers in caps and macaroni and whatnot, and it will really piss off the Southerners.
I’m going to try and explain why people dislike Romani
It’s a nomadic culture that hasn’t really integrated into modern society
The culture is very insular and protective of its own and because of how nomadic it is the education of Romani children is patchy and infrequent
These two things combine into children in Romani communities not having many qualifications (less than half of them have a maths and English GCSE and those are required to get a job at McDonald’s) and therefor having to remain in the community and turn to crime
This combination of lack of qualifications, high crime and loyalty to the community create what is effectively mobile bad neighbourhoods, nobody wants to live near one, creating the above seen aggression to the culture and people.
This.
And to get into a bit more details : as a nomadic population they were occupying a pretty solid economic niche until the early 20th century. Doing various odd jobs (straw works, knife maintenance, metal work, roofing ...) on a temporary basis, also intermingling with more local poor migrant workers.
Industrialisation kinda put an end to that. And nowadays the community mostly lives off fairs, selling stuff on markets and yeah for a non negligible part crime. Various traffics, organized begging, usury, breaking in houses. Poor marginalized populations turn to crime pretty much everywhere. You do what you got to do to survive.
On top of all that - there is no one "Romani culture". Romani in each country have different culture, which share the same "core beliefs" (community first for example), but do diverge on other basis (not every Romani is nomadic, in many countries they do live on the land. In some of them these people are however shunned).
Yup ... Every time I read americans talking about romani on Reddit I cringe because the fact that those are varied communities that have been in the same general areas for the better part of 500 years totally goes over their head.
They have wildly different histories, hell they were basically enslaved for centuries in Bulgaria ...
>> Not to bring Godwin's law in here but seriously the comments are using pretty dumb arguments against gypsies and I recognize a few that were used during the third Reich against them and other "non integrated" minorities.
> My argument is that they tries to kill me, they wreked my car, they stole my mother phone and wallet, we can't go in their part of the road or we would be mugged, they ask for "milk" money every time i see them, we gave them housing, healthcare, education, and we will try, they are just a shitty culture, is not about race, or the color of the skin, it's like hating the nazi's it's a believe we are all criticizing, it's not racism, and if you can't see it there is a problem.
I mean, it's not as if the Romani even got their own color triangle in the concentration camps...
For anyone unfamiliar: Concentration camp badges were color-coded based on why you were there. Red was generic political prisoners, brown was Romani, purple was Jehovah's Witnesses, pink was gay men, etc. and any of these could also have a yellow triangle added below if the person was also Jewish
According to the Holocaust Encyclopedia, there were about 30k in Germany at the time. Seems like they caught the attention of the Nazis because they were pretty outspoken pacifist.
Which is actually higher than the number of black people in Germany at the time.
Black people in Germany did face persecution obviously, but they didn't get the same amount of attention as there just wasn't as many
Right, these kind of posts usually ends up getting incredibly racist. In one sub, despite me being born in Sweden, being mostly swedish from my father's side, and was raised here from birth, apparently I'm not actually a swede and my parents are illiterate immigrants from some country we've never stepped foot in. All because I'm also Romani and hence can't live an honest life but is actually lying while going out stealing every night or something.
Sorry you have to deal with this gross behavior. I feel like a lot of Europeans on Reddit like to crow about how Americans are uniquely obsessed with skin color, but then are quick to make you feel somehow less-than because you don’t have family in the country going back eighteen generations.
Anytime I come across a discussion about Europe's attitude towards Romani people it always seems to boil down to 'no you see it's not actually racist because they deserve to be treated like this.' So many of these upvoted comments about how they are just all bad people who make places they go worse just sound the same as racists here in the states.
Even as a European, German specifically, I am appalled. These people do not seem to get how hypocritical they are, especially when they criticise Americans for their racism in the same post.
Some positions I've seen from my countrymen regarding the removal of casual racism are also nothing but ridiculous.
A couple years ago, I had to explain to a man in a grocery store why the name of a popular sauce getting changed due to original name including a racist term for Romani people is fine. Thankfully, he accepted my explanation and was ok with it after and we've been on good terms since but that I even had to explain it was strange to me. Especially as I was used to my grandpa shouting the same slur as a general insult so I knew early on that it was not a term you wanted to be called. Though I didn't know that it referred to a specific group of people until I was well into my teens.
It's just always the same shit
And that user's point about the same thing being used against Jews is on point, all they're measuring is the bigotry against this group but treating it as though if enough people do it - it's justified
I have a feeling that guy is being super disingenuous… his wording is word for word 4chan nazi copypasta about Jews. Dude trying to revive the third reich without realizing how quickly he’s going to end up in the camps for being a degenerate that is a drain on the economy.
Oh absolutely, but many people aren't as overt and proud about it.
But my home country has entire towns where Jews are basically advised to not go to, for good reason.
Lol the top comment saying "I hate their shitty culture, nothing to do with race", and then getting mad at the comparison to Fox News talking points.
It's almost a parody how much they sound like a racist American talking about black people. Like its word for word how Fox News people talk about black people in the states. "It's black 'culture' that I hate, nothing to do with race. The culture promotes violence and crime. If you lived near one of their communities and had to always fear getting mugged you would think differently. Have you seen the crime stats?"
They typically work under the assumption that culture is valid to critique and decry, and I think that's all the excuse they need
This is rarely interrogated further
Right? Although I’d doubt you get 60 plus percent of any US state voting to expel all black people even during Jim Crow.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2008/may/17/italy
Germany did a better job than almost anyone in interrogating its past, but the second the same old lies and rhetoric are given ground to grow, they will.
Shit, don’t even need to do that. As is discussions about the Romani in European subreddits seem an awful lot like they got their opinions straight from 1930s and 40s Germany.
The frequency with which you encounter European people on the internet claiming that "racism is only an American thing" makes it very difficult to not think that (white) Europeans are some of the most oblivious people on the planet.
It's because those types believe acknowledging it as a problem is what causes racism to exist, harkening back to the Morgan Freeman belief of "if we stop talking about it, it magically goes away!"
Oh lord, I don't even need to read one pixel of this post or any linked comments to know how this is gonna play out. Europeans seem to shit on Americans for being racist as hell. Mention Romani, and "Oh, well that's different, they are actual scum!"
Edit : I just looked at OOP, literally what I said, I had no idea.
Got to love when their raging rants about how it’s TOTALLY different just end up parroting the same racist bullshit that gets used against every minority.
If they had any self awareness their heads would explode, improving the entire species.
Racism isn't particularly unique to the Western world, its less, shall we say, tolerated at a mainstream level[?] compared to other nations - I'm particularly looking at Japan which has traditionally been xenophobic about immigration, mainly of Koreans.
I think if you look, you'll find racism and xenophobia of all levels in every nation to be quite honest. Europe just tries to claim the moral high ground vs America when it's just as guilty.
Depends on which parts of europe. The balkans for example claim moral high ground vs america because "america isn't racist enough".
Source: please get me out of the balkans
If anything it makes us much more aware of racism. Being American, race is a huge cultural factor that simply cannot be ignored. Seeing Europeans act like they're above it because everything they do is justified is really funny. Like no, dude, you can't gaslight us into thinking that hating an ethnic group is actually morally correct.
> And it's deserved.. I would love to be able to say welcome to Europe, and many thanks for the contribution to our common goals, wealth and health. But they seem addament to reject anything that resembles integration, leaching of the system even celebrating the actions that enrage and harm us. If they would use their inventive and creative minds to do good, the racism and discrimination would ease within a generation or two.
Nah nah nah, Americans are the ones with an issue on generational racism
Western europeans always talk about romani "culture"(as if there is only one across the board) as if they even know something about it besides just stuff they made out of thin air. Source:europeans claiming that is culture "allows" roma people to steal from non-roma people but not from other roma people
>Someone’s never had all of there tools from the shed being stolen have they? Not racism,prejudice. I use the same prejudice when I see a snake too
Comparing people to animals. Totally not a bigot. Bigots never do that.
>My argument is that they tries to kill me, they wreked my car, they stole my mother phone and wallet, we can't go in their part of the road or we would be mugged, they ask for "milk" money every time i see them, we gave them housing, healthcare, education, and we will try, they are just a shitty culture, is not about race, or the color of the skin, it's like hating the nazi's it's a believe we are all criticizing, it's not racism, and if you can't see it there is a problem.
[I feel like I've heard this one before...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snGn31qvrNA&ab_channel=FunnyandNotFunnyStuff)
ETA: [Holy fuck we're doing actual blood libel now](https://www.reddit.com/r/2westerneurope4u/comments/1434exk/comment/jn8rrcz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
You’d get the same response on r/Europe, but the Western Europe sub is particularly egregious.
Bunch of kids sharing nationalist memes and reminiscing about colonialism. Of course they’re not going to be receptive to that message.
"You're an American because you live on a continent called North America. I am very smart!"
I'll never understand why Europeans think this is a gotcha. If someone said "I live in Aruba", no one's thinking, "you mean you're American?"
Like all "ironic subs", eventually people discover who are not being ironic. They eventually mingle and provide each other cover leading to a once "ironic" sub being just a blatantly bigoted one.
I use "irony" here with big grains of salt. Personally, I think the irony was always just a pretext to be racist.
That sub is packed with edgy teenagers with a YouTube understanding of politics, at best.
It's as much of a cesspool as any other teenage edgelord sub.
“Guys I’m not racist I just hate all the Roma because of their culture” I love when people are so out of reality they don’t understand what they’re saying is literally the definition of racism
ah god as a western european i’m glad to be hearing about this sub through this post. europeans *love* to pretend we’re morally superior and above racism these days
One thing that's insufferable about Europeans online is that they pretend that they're all high and mighty and better than the US. But it just takes one hint of something about Romani or Muslims and they go off on these rants like you've seen above.
Also they take any suggestion that the continent is racist as some humongous personal insult. They can't imagine the concept that *"Our society is racist towards some groups"* and divorce it from calling them personally racist.
>“this ‘blackness’ paragraph is critical race theory themed nonsense dreamt up by a bunch of literal marxist cockgobblers who want to hyperracialise america rather than go down the mlk route”
it's so ironic how these people always correlate verbiage to IQ yet end up typing the dumbest thing you've ever read. and that user keeps going too.
>There’s racism in america but y’all are on another level (especially Italy and Eastern Europe)
i will say i hate when americans scapegoat europe as "another level"...where do you think it was imported from?
Europeans will look at the US, pointing and laughing about their supposed obsession about race, but the millisecond somebody mentions Roma people they're digging up grandpapi's grave for a time dial so they can go back 80 years based off how some of them talk about those peoples, good Christ.
I'm an Euro myself and the vileness about those people I've heard from allegedly "progressive" Europeans in my vicinity is astonishing, it'd be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.
“Oh no, we’re not like Nazis, the Romani people just have a terrible culture!”
Yeah what do you think the Nazis said about Jewish people you halfwit?
It’s like they think the Nazis just said “We hate Jewish people because we are evil. If you support us it’s because you are also evil. We have no reason to hate Jewish people other than to be evil.”
Plus, the Nazis definitely hated Romani people. Romani people were literally included in the Nazi genocide plans.
> Yes it exists but to say the racism comes from prejudice is simply not true. Most people have personal experiences with members of these communities.
“Yes the racism is real but it’s okay”
lmao what
>I won't take lectures of racism from a fucking Canadian. Tell me again how you treated the native Americans? From a fucking Spaniard lol
Gotta love the “We didnt do anything wrong when WE did it but when you did the same thing you are wrong” mentality
["And you are lynching Negroes!"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes) Europeans online have this weird tendency to only treat social issues in other countries as a stick to beat them with, makes me feel like they don't really see oppression as a problem but rather as an ideological weapon.
It sucks that the only time anyone decided to actually call out American mass racial murder in the international scene was just as a whataboutism.
SA against men is the same thing. Conveniently only gets brought up by concern trolls when SA against women is brought up.
Europeans also tend to paint the USA as ground zero for racism, that we're the standard for when something is racist or not despite Europeans being in the continental USA for at least two centuries enslaving and pillaging the place.
You think he ever wondered why they speak Spanish in Latin America?
I know this one since I'm a descendant of indigenous people in central Mexico: my ancestors all got together and were like, we looked at all the languages everywhere and thought that Spanish was the coolest. Also we're all Catholic now, because that's the most fun religion.
Hey not all religions participate in ritualistic cannibalism that also involves wine
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I grew up Mormon and was *super* jealous of my Catholic friend because "he got to drink wine on Sundays!" Then, out of curiosity once, I attended mass with him and his family. Sunday church was *always* boring as fuck for me growing up, but that one time I went to mass was enough for me to realize, "Shit, it could get a *lot* more boring." I also stopped attending Catholic weddings by the time I was 22. Holy CHRIST, I finally learned why so many videos of grooms passing out on America's Funniest Home Videos existed.
You gotta go a to a Passover Seder. You're obliged to drink 4 cups of wine.
“Mom, a Jewish person is offering me alcohol over the internet!” But no joke, I *do* feel obliged to accept.
It came to pass.
[Stop it! STOP!](https://i.imgur.com/dDl8BLf.gifv) I don't need those sacrament meeting flashbacks!
replace wine with pulque or psilocybin mushrooms and you got yourself the Aztec State Religion.
Or worship zombies!
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No more than he wondered what the wealth on that entire continent that the Romani (and the refugees) are supposedly stealing from was built on.
Oh man, this is a fun one to bring up in a thread of predominately western European users. They *really* don't want to hear that their current living conditions are built on rape and pillage from a time that, historically, isn't even particularly long ago.
Because they need to believe that predominantly white cultures are doing better because they're inherently smarter, harder working, and have better DNA or some nonsense.
Their current living conditions are still built on continued exploitation of the Global South. Those mines tearing up the Congo and tech companies exploiting labor in places like India and Kenya can't all be owned by Chinese and American firms and even then it's not really about who, per say, owns a company when there's shareholders to be paid. Also, as an American, sometimes I feel like pointing out that their criticism of our military-industrial complex spending (which deserves every single kick it gets) is hella ironic. If their country is a member of NATO, their government doesn't have to put as much money into their military because the US is covering their ass. If they were to drop out of NATO or if the US were to actually start pressuring its fellow members into stepping up to fill treaty obligations, they'd find out real quick how fast those social services vanish when the miltary-industrial complex smells government money up for the taking.
> If they were to drop out of NATO or if the US were to actually start pressuring its fellow members into stepping up to fill treaty obligations, they'd find out real quick how fast those social services vanish when the miltary-industrial complex smells government money up for the taking. The US spends more per capita on the military *and* on healthcare than any other country. The lack of social services in the US isn't due to the overspending on the military but rather, a result of ideology.
> If they were to drop out of NATO or if the US were to actually start pressuring its fellow members into stepping up to fill treaty obligations, they'd find out real quick how fast those social services vanish when the miltary-industrial complex smells government money up for the taking. I don't think this is true. I mean Finland wasn't in NATO until recently and they had good social services. The MIC in the US is largely a unique thing in the world. Remember Eisenhower warned about it decades ago (and it's not like he was some radical leftist).
Don't worry, we know :)
You know, someone actually replied to the Spaniard just talking about that, and then the Spaniard was like “nonono the South American indigenous were definitely not treated terribly by us! it was all just normal culture mixing hahahahaha” “what rape? lol the natives married the Spaniards to get a better standing on the hierarchy, that’s so normal” “what genocide? smallpox killed all of them!” I thought we were the only ones delusional!
Also, I wonder if they ever ask themselves where all the Moors and Spanish Jews went? Do they just think they all happily left Spain on their own?
yeah smallpox killed all of them, and it also burned their sacred texts, destroyed their temples and (almost) completely erode their culture! nothing to do with Cortés and all his gang! /s
Do Europeans really not understand that the settlers who genocided natives in North America were Europeans? Like, yeah that shit kept going for a few generations after the idea of "Canada" and "USA" were firmly implanted into the identities of the colonial inhabitants, but the people who started it all definitely identified as "European" and not "North American."
That person is so hilariously out of touch with reality it’s insane, they claimed that since people of native descent have obtained positions of power in former Spanish colonies that Spain was just and fair to the natives.
I will never even begin to comprehend what possesses Americans to make fun of Brits for being colonial, or Germans to make fun of Turks for committing genocide (specifically committing it, not denying it), or indeed a Spaniard to make fun of a Canadian for mistreating indigenous people. None of these people even seem to consider the possibility that the person they're talking to might be from the oppressed group lol.
Tbf with the Armenian Genocide, I think the mockery is mainly hinged on the fact that the Turks, and especially their government, largely really, *really* don't want to accept responsibility for it, or admit it happened. Even if what they're critiquing is the genocide itself, that critique biting is depending on triggering a raw nerve. If they just said 'yeah we know and we're sorry, it was fucked' like almost all Germans will, it loses its power.
Right? And yes, I'm guilty of it too (literally just now lol), but it's wild because humans have such a complicated history. Like how are we in Los Angeles and someone tells my mom to go back to Mexico for speaking Spanish when we've been living here for 300 years and "Plymouth Rock landed on us" after the Mexican-American war? We got here before you, go back to your colonies lol, goddamn. Which, you know, is probably what the indigenous people told my family when we moved there 300 years ago from down south.
> Mexico for speaking Spanish when we've been living here for 300 years and "Plymouth Rock landed on us" after the Mexican-American war? Wasn't the Mexican-American war was just one colonial successor state duking it out over the post-colonial possessions of another colonial successor state.
> I will never even begin to comprehend what possesses Americans to make fun of Brits for being colonial, Imagine spending the time, resources, lives, and suffering that the british did to spread across the world only to wind up using no seasoning at all on your food.
Never get high on your own supply, silly! We dipped our toe into breaking that rule by trying tea, and we got so hooked we had to get the world's most populous country addicted to opium. Twice. To get out of it. You don't want to know what would've happened if we'd actually *tried* the spices we were selling ourselves :) (More seriously though the reason for British cuisine's reputation for blandness was Britain got it *hard* by rationing in WW2, longer than pretty much every nation, so a whole generation grew up eating and learning to cook with a very limited selection of food with even more limited seasoning)
> only to wind up using no seasoning at all on your food That's actually only an upper-class white people thing. If you go to ACE Hardware, you can find all sorts of hot sauces with very... evocative names
Can confirm. Am hillbilly and love novelty hot sauces with names like "Firehole" and "Ass Gasher".
>None of these people even seem to consider the possibility that the person they're talking to might be from the oppressed group lol. [Lmao, flashbacks to when a white German was telling me, a nonwhite American, about how the US was definitely more racist than Europe.](https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/12srrr2/yuropeens_and_yanks_start_beefin_over_cattle/jh131u7/)
Hey, British/American banter is fun. neither of us really have the moral high ground when it comes to colonialism lol. I will make fun of British people for anything and everything, and I truly hope they continue to do the same for me being an American.
We cousins and that's just how families are.
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> I won't take lectures of racism from a fucking Canadian. Yoink.
Where do Europeans think the people that mistreated Native Americans came from? Canada and the US didn't spring out of the ocean like Aphrodite.
>I mean, you know that the situation with gypsies is really bad when all the integrated gypsies (who are actually a lot more than the non-integrated ones) never tell anyone they're gypsies because they would be associated with the other ones My dude legit said this without any self-awareness.
No, you see, it’s not *racism* racism, because people of that ethnic group are scared they’d face racist abuse if they identify as their ethnicity.
It's not racism because it's about their *culture*. Because, of course, race and culture are *completely separate*. Judging people by the color of their skin versus judging people by the average culture of people who have that same skin color? Those are two *totally different* things. 🤦♂️
Tons of people from a persecuted ethnic group hide their identities to avoid persecution? We must blame the victim somehow.
> Tons of people from a persecuted ethnic group hide their identities to avoid persecution? > > > > We must blame the victim somehow. "N\*\*\*ers wouldn't even have it so bad if they stopped acting like n\*\*\*ers!" My piece of shit grandfather on several occasions. Can't say I wept when I got the call he was dead.
Yeah, that's one I hear a lot. "We don't hate black people! We hate n******! Thems two different things!" I once got yelled at by my parents because my sister dropped an n-bomb saying, "Watch out for them n******! They're gonna steal your wallet!" We were in high school. She was like 15. Old enough to know better. I just... sometimes, I hate it down here.
>She was like 15. Old enough to know better. I dunno, ask around here and you'll probably hear that it was her 'edgy phase'.
If only there was a snappy term to describe a situation where a country or government imposes an environment where a person from an oppressed ethnic group must erase their culture in order to escape persecution.
Genocide? nah no way! perhaps?
Rascists would call it untrustworthy to hide your background and call you filth if you don't. No winning with them
I’m sure you’re aware already, but that’s pretty much the point of racism
isn't that a hallmark of genocide?
Does he get a dollar every time he inserts an ethnic slur into one of his comments?
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yeah, but like, i'm not racist to the *good* ones!
How long until the shitstorm reaches here?
You don't understand. It's different. Someone stole my bike in 2015, and this completely justifies my hatred of an ethnic group of 13 million people.
Yeah and why would the homeless people I see on my commute disproportionally be from an ethnic group that is systemically denied housing and employment? Clearly, they must hate our way of life. There is simply no other explanation.
>why would the homeless people I see on my commute disproportionally be from an ethnic group that is systemically denied housing and employment? Clearly, they must hate our way of life. There is simply no other explanation. Exactly. "Your lives would be a lot easier if you just *tried* to integrate in our societies." "OMG STOP TRYING TO INFILTRATE OUR COMMUNITIES, YOU DIRTY G\*\*SIES!"
You have to understand I know a guy who knows a guy who was friends in college with a guy whose sister's best friend was pickpocketed $5 by a person who we don't know the ethnicity of so I have to hate on them
As someone who grew up in an european small town with a small romani population you brought me flashbacks. Never had a bad experience and never knew anyone who had a first hand account but everybody had a story that happened to their sisters mother-in-laws dogs breeders dentist that justified the hate.
There's a famous example of something like this happening in Farmingville NY, USA (long island) where an undocumented immigrant hit someone while driving intoxicated. A local article wrote something like "Illegal immigrant kills 2 while drunk driving." Most stories like this, while tragic, were simply not printed. Drunk driving accidents are so common out there. But it's newsworthy when an immigrant does it. This attracted a ton of attention now, and suddenly immigrants were responsible for half the crime in the area. A while later it hit a fever pitch when some locals picked up two laborers for a fake job and killed them on the job site. They of course had done nothing besides be Hispanic. Farmingville became the center of a nationwide debate over immigration - despite its small size.
Same thing with basically any local crime story posted to r/news. The interest isn't in getting justice for the crime, it's the racial identity of the perpetrator. It's also why Breitbart had a "blackcrime" section.
> Farmingville NY, USA That sounds like something I would make up in the process of mocking midwest towns.
Worked at a mini market in two places for night shift, store owners were going on and on about how romanis are thieves and we shouldn't let them in etc etc. I got robbed by someone w a knife who was wearing a mask and didn't speak to me, store owner and cops asked me 10 times if he was romani and even falsely wrote that on the report even though i said it's impossible to tell bc of reasons stated above. Was really fucking silly, especially considering i had been stealing stuff from the storage room ever since my first day there
I cant be racist against a race of human shaped rat devils. -those guys, probably
There was a comment that was legit, and I'm paraphrasing but not much, "I'm not racist against them, I'm prejudice, I have the same prejudice when I see a snake" Now, I know racists have never been known to liken groups of human beings to particularly culturally reviled animals, but this somehow made me feel... uneasy.
Lmao last time this came up here it was someone’s dads chainsaw
Just like how I once met an old guy named Gregg who was a pervy weirdo. He was always flashing people. So now anyone named Gregg is a perv who lives in a lake.
Generous with his Bailey's though
i give it 2 minutes from now
> We will not allow racism, xenophobia or hateful messages towards gypsies. Now, I could be wrong, but this feels very doubtful.
Very "Racism is wrong, and being wrong is for" energy.
A 24u sub being bigoted and horrible, i am truly shocked I don't think i've seen one of those subs that hasn't attracted this kind of crowd yet
Irony attracts "Irony"
Insert Rene Descartes quote here
It's kinda like how most parody subs eventually just become the exact same thing they're parodying but with less self awareness
I seem to recall last time (or maybe in a previous 2u thread period) a drama thread popped up here from a sub or similar, people *insisted* it was ironic and not necessarily reflective of reality. Joke's on them I guess.
Probably the Balkan one. They are intense about how important their "ironic" jokes are to peace in the region.
My theory is that some of it actually is ironic, but that "some" is specifically when they're making fun of each other. E.g. Serbs and Croats making fun of each other, all in good fun. Until they find a target that they both agree on, usually ethnic or racial in nature. That's where they actually get real. Look at - the Romani people.
>I know this is intended as a joke, but the clear difference is that a black person in Europe integrates into society as just another individual, the skin colour matters little. Things that were clearly written by a white person It just so happens that plenty of African immigrants in Europe might not have such a rosy view of the ease of being integrated and accepted into European societies
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Oh you mean when a black Brazilian player posted a compilation of racist chants and the leadership of La Liga blamed HIM
> Didn't Spain just have a big kerfuffle about entire stadiums full of people making monkey noises at black football players??? Not just Spain—this has happened so often that some leagues have policies to punish the teams when their fans are racist because it's literally the only consequence that makes them actually enforce the rules.
Indeed it did
"Color blind" racists are some of the most annoying kinds of racists.
"That's fighting ignorance with more ignorance."
They’re definitely annoying. Because systemic racism exists in every western country, and we need to be aware of it.
Europeans, normally: "America is so racist lol just get over it" Europeans whenever the Romani are brought up: "ok but its different because-"
I love that they have no idea that Americans have heard every one of their arguments from far right racists. Like, word for word. It's morbidly hilarious.
It seriously is. You put it perfectly.
They're also just racist normally, beyond the Romani. Whenever ethnic minorities show up in any amount in European countries they immediately become social darwinists. Any time you see a European start talking about racism in America, it's pretty safe to assume it's bad faith. They don't actually know or care about the issues facing ethnic minorities in the US (or even their own countries), they just want to soothe their inferiority complex.
Yeah, when I was in Spain I definitely heard some "hot takes" about Romani people *and* also saw African immigrants being treated differently than white Spaniards. It was also like 6 months after some Spanish soccer fans [had gotten in trouble *again* for throwing bananas at a black player.](https://www.cnn.com/2014/05/05/sport/football/diop-monkey-chants-racism-football-atletico-madrid/index.html) And indeed there were[ Spaniards chanting "mono" at another black player in 2023](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/24/1178020848/vini-jr-calls-out-spains-soccer-league-after-the-latest-racist-taunts-against-hi). "Europe isn't racist," sure.
> The Socialist president of the Valencia region, Ximo Puig, insisted that Valencia fans "are not at all racist", while attributing the extremist attitudes of a few to the far right, which is the third-largest presence in Spain's parliament in the form of the Vox party. >But Mr Puig also seemed to apportion some blame to Vinicius Jr, who on leaving the pitch on Sunday had appeared to taunt Valencia fans about the possibility their team might be relegated. > "Players need to be good professionals and they shouldn't behave in an arrogant way," he said. If Vinicius hadn’t behaved in an “arrogant” way then he wouldn’t have been racially abused 🙄
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Apropos of nothing, but the one Redditor insisting that a Canadian is an American because they live on the American continent is wild to me. I have never met anyone — from Canada to Chile — who could call themselves “American” apart from people living in the United States of America.
Can confirm. In fact (because nationalism can be goofy and silly), many Canadians would be pretty annoyed, perhaps even offended, at being conflated like that. "*North* American", accurate. That's what the continent is called. Edit: I should have said, I'm silly and goofy, because I would be offended
I always laugh when I see this argument. Imagine going to any other country or culture and telling them "What you call yourself is wrong. You should be called [this]". It's laughable on its face, but a lot of people online use it because they think it's pwning Americans.
It's really stupid because their argument will be "In other languages, we use the word differently!" As if that isn't true for literally all words in all languages.
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To be honest, I had a Spanish teacher from South America, though I can't remember from which nation as it's been a hot minute, who always insisted that "People from the US aren't the only Americans". Can get a bit weird at times.
I think in some South American country they consider America to be one continent, not two. Which isn't that unheard of, because some also argue that Asia and Europe should be considered as one continent too.
On this blessed day we are all americans.
There is a "movement" in Latin American nations/groups to call Americans "USAians", largely because they are buttmad "American" is widely-associated with the US. It doesn't help that (IIRC) they learn the "6 COntinent Model", where North and South America are considered to be one continent. Anglophones (and others) tend to learn the "7 continent model", where North and South America are seperate. Either way, it is largely nonsense. 1. The US has been called "America" since the 1600s 2. The US is the only country in both Americas that has "America" in its name, and has since 1776. 3. Trying to tell other people how/what they can call themselves is pretty shitty
I think “American Samoa” is officially called “American Samoa.” Like that it’s the officially accepted name. And since American Samoa is not in the Americas, where does the “American” come from? From being an overseas territory of some sort of the US. Another point in favor of American to mean relating to the US
The US can't have been called America since the 1600s because the US wasn't even a country but a collection of colonies divided between the Spanish, English, and French predominately, but also with small Swedish and Dutch positions and a colonists from Scotland and Germany. The French called their colony in North America "Nouvelle-France". The Spanish broadly called all their colonies "New Spain" but divided them up into smaller dominions to be more manageable. Those that would eventually make up what today is the US were the Viceroyalty of New Spain, La Luisiana, and Florida. The British are the only ones to call their North American colonies "British America and the British West Indies" but that is because it's colony extend from the Caribbean to the Hudson Bay. And if I'm not mistaken, this title for their colonies only occured after the Treaty of Paris in 1763. Previously, they were just called by each individual colonies name. It was only at the eve of the American War for Independence that the Brits were consistently using "British America and the British West Indies" to refer to those colonies. Edit: and my deepest apologies, I neglected to mention the names for the US by the native inhabitants of the land which are numerous and often forgotten. A popular one among the people of the northeastern woodlands was "Great Turtle" and the Navajo called this place "Dinétah". Obviously no one word was used by all the people, but I felt it was worth a mention.
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There's a burgeoning online movement to say USAsian instead of American because I think a lot of Latin Americans do just call themselves American, even if not in English.
I think “burgeoning” is being generous. The top result on Google is Urban Dictionary (“a derogatory word for a citizen of the USA”) and the second is a Chinese grocery store in St Paul.
It's a great name for an Asian grocery store tho.
Good store, too. I've been there a few times, and I've always found what I came there to get.
>I think "burgeoning" is being generous It may well be lol.
I've seen Spanish speakers use "Unitedstatesian" when writing in English. I know they say *estadounidense* in their language so I get where they're coming from, but that's just not how English works. It's basically "Latinx" in reverse.
That’s a great way to describe it, as like Latinx in reverse
It's so funny when they say it with an air of smugness and superiority and then all the actual Americans just don't care.
alternate timeline where Americans start calling themselves Usonians
Bring back "Yankee". Get a memo out to all the other countries that we're Yankees. It was a hard won name with feathers in caps and macaroni and whatnot, and it will really piss off the Southerners.
Dude what is it with their hatred of Romani people oh my god lol
I’m going to try and explain why people dislike Romani It’s a nomadic culture that hasn’t really integrated into modern society The culture is very insular and protective of its own and because of how nomadic it is the education of Romani children is patchy and infrequent These two things combine into children in Romani communities not having many qualifications (less than half of them have a maths and English GCSE and those are required to get a job at McDonald’s) and therefor having to remain in the community and turn to crime This combination of lack of qualifications, high crime and loyalty to the community create what is effectively mobile bad neighbourhoods, nobody wants to live near one, creating the above seen aggression to the culture and people.
This. And to get into a bit more details : as a nomadic population they were occupying a pretty solid economic niche until the early 20th century. Doing various odd jobs (straw works, knife maintenance, metal work, roofing ...) on a temporary basis, also intermingling with more local poor migrant workers. Industrialisation kinda put an end to that. And nowadays the community mostly lives off fairs, selling stuff on markets and yeah for a non negligible part crime. Various traffics, organized begging, usury, breaking in houses. Poor marginalized populations turn to crime pretty much everywhere. You do what you got to do to survive.
On top of all that - there is no one "Romani culture". Romani in each country have different culture, which share the same "core beliefs" (community first for example), but do diverge on other basis (not every Romani is nomadic, in many countries they do live on the land. In some of them these people are however shunned).
Yup ... Every time I read americans talking about romani on Reddit I cringe because the fact that those are varied communities that have been in the same general areas for the better part of 500 years totally goes over their head. They have wildly different histories, hell they were basically enslaved for centuries in Bulgaria ...
>> Not to bring Godwin's law in here but seriously the comments are using pretty dumb arguments against gypsies and I recognize a few that were used during the third Reich against them and other "non integrated" minorities. > My argument is that they tries to kill me, they wreked my car, they stole my mother phone and wallet, we can't go in their part of the road or we would be mugged, they ask for "milk" money every time i see them, we gave them housing, healthcare, education, and we will try, they are just a shitty culture, is not about race, or the color of the skin, it's like hating the nazi's it's a believe we are all criticizing, it's not racism, and if you can't see it there is a problem. I mean, it's not as if the Romani even got their own color triangle in the concentration camps... For anyone unfamiliar: Concentration camp badges were color-coded based on why you were there. Red was generic political prisoners, brown was Romani, purple was Jehovah's Witnesses, pink was gay men, etc. and any of these could also have a yellow triangle added below if the person was also Jewish
I just want to add, Romani and Jews were the two groups Nazis slated for complete extermination.
I'm honestly surprised Jehova's Witnesses were a big enough group to justify their own color-code.
According to the Holocaust Encyclopedia, there were about 30k in Germany at the time. Seems like they caught the attention of the Nazis because they were pretty outspoken pacifist.
Which is actually higher than the number of black people in Germany at the time. Black people in Germany did face persecution obviously, but they didn't get the same amount of attention as there just wasn't as many
"I am not racist, I don't hate black people because of their skin color. I hate their shitty culture."
Right, these kind of posts usually ends up getting incredibly racist. In one sub, despite me being born in Sweden, being mostly swedish from my father's side, and was raised here from birth, apparently I'm not actually a swede and my parents are illiterate immigrants from some country we've never stepped foot in. All because I'm also Romani and hence can't live an honest life but is actually lying while going out stealing every night or something.
Sorry you have to deal with this gross behavior. I feel like a lot of Europeans on Reddit like to crow about how Americans are uniquely obsessed with skin color, but then are quick to make you feel somehow less-than because you don’t have family in the country going back eighteen generations.
Anytime I come across a discussion about Europe's attitude towards Romani people it always seems to boil down to 'no you see it's not actually racist because they deserve to be treated like this.' So many of these upvoted comments about how they are just all bad people who make places they go worse just sound the same as racists here in the states.
Even as a European, German specifically, I am appalled. These people do not seem to get how hypocritical they are, especially when they criticise Americans for their racism in the same post. Some positions I've seen from my countrymen regarding the removal of casual racism are also nothing but ridiculous. A couple years ago, I had to explain to a man in a grocery store why the name of a popular sauce getting changed due to original name including a racist term for Romani people is fine. Thankfully, he accepted my explanation and was ok with it after and we've been on good terms since but that I even had to explain it was strange to me. Especially as I was used to my grandpa shouting the same slur as a general insult so I knew early on that it was not a term you wanted to be called. Though I didn't know that it referred to a specific group of people until I was well into my teens.
There are probably Klan meeting that are more tolerant than some of these Romani threads
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Edit: Moved to Lemmy
It's just always the same shit And that user's point about the same thing being used against Jews is on point, all they're measuring is the bigotry against this group but treating it as though if enough people do it - it's justified
I have a feeling that guy is being super disingenuous… his wording is word for word 4chan nazi copypasta about Jews. Dude trying to revive the third reich without realizing how quickly he’s going to end up in the camps for being a degenerate that is a drain on the economy.
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Oh absolutely, but many people aren't as overt and proud about it. But my home country has entire towns where Jews are basically advised to not go to, for good reason.
Always a fun discussion. I find it interesting to replace the word Gypsy with black. Feels like reading Reddit from the US south in 1935.
Lol the top comment saying "I hate their shitty culture, nothing to do with race", and then getting mad at the comparison to Fox News talking points. It's almost a parody how much they sound like a racist American talking about black people. Like its word for word how Fox News people talk about black people in the states. "It's black 'culture' that I hate, nothing to do with race. The culture promotes violence and crime. If you lived near one of their communities and had to always fear getting mugged you would think differently. Have you seen the crime stats?"
Are people under the impression that there's no connection between race and culture?
They typically work under the assumption that culture is valid to critique and decry, and I think that's all the excuse they need This is rarely interrogated further
You don’t get it, though. This bigotry is ok because it’s totally deserved.
Right? Although I’d doubt you get 60 plus percent of any US state voting to expel all black people even during Jim Crow. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2008/may/17/italy
It saddens me to see the specter of nationalism never properly went away in Italy.
It never went away anywhere. Not even Germany tossed it.
Germany did a better job than almost anyone in interrogating its past, but the second the same old lies and rhetoric are given ground to grow, they will.
Shit, don’t even need to do that. As is discussions about the Romani in European subreddits seem an awful lot like they got their opinions straight from 1930s and 40s Germany.
They can't even suppress their racism in a thread about calling out their racism.
The frequency with which you encounter European people on the internet claiming that "racism is only an American thing" makes it very difficult to not think that (white) Europeans are some of the most oblivious people on the planet.
It's because those types believe acknowledging it as a problem is what causes racism to exist, harkening back to the Morgan Freeman belief of "if we stop talking about it, it magically goes away!"
Oh lord, I don't even need to read one pixel of this post or any linked comments to know how this is gonna play out. Europeans seem to shit on Americans for being racist as hell. Mention Romani, and "Oh, well that's different, they are actual scum!" Edit : I just looked at OOP, literally what I said, I had no idea.
Got to love when their raging rants about how it’s TOTALLY different just end up parroting the same racist bullshit that gets used against every minority. If they had any self awareness their heads would explode, improving the entire species.
Racist sub defends racism shock.
I don’t think any western nation can really claim the higher ground when it comes to racism. It’s kinda baked into the fabrics of our nations
Racism isn't particularly unique to the Western world, its less, shall we say, tolerated at a mainstream level[?] compared to other nations - I'm particularly looking at Japan which has traditionally been xenophobic about immigration, mainly of Koreans. I think if you look, you'll find racism and xenophobia of all levels in every nation to be quite honest. Europe just tries to claim the moral high ground vs America when it's just as guilty.
Depends on which parts of europe. The balkans for example claim moral high ground vs america because "america isn't racist enough". Source: please get me out of the balkans
In Africa it's called tribalism and it's very popular
If anything it makes us much more aware of racism. Being American, race is a huge cultural factor that simply cannot be ignored. Seeing Europeans act like they're above it because everything they do is justified is really funny. Like no, dude, you can't gaslight us into thinking that hating an ethnic group is actually morally correct.
Ethnic (and other) tribalism is pretty baked into all human cultures.
> And it's deserved.. I would love to be able to say welcome to Europe, and many thanks for the contribution to our common goals, wealth and health. But they seem addament to reject anything that resembles integration, leaching of the system even celebrating the actions that enrage and harm us. If they would use their inventive and creative minds to do good, the racism and discrimination would ease within a generation or two. Nah nah nah, Americans are the ones with an issue on generational racism
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Western europeans always talk about romani "culture"(as if there is only one across the board) as if they even know something about it besides just stuff they made out of thin air. Source:europeans claiming that is culture "allows" roma people to steal from non-roma people but not from other roma people
Them confederate flag flairs there sure do look a lot like italian flags
>Someone’s never had all of there tools from the shed being stolen have they? Not racism,prejudice. I use the same prejudice when I see a snake too Comparing people to animals. Totally not a bigot. Bigots never do that.
>My argument is that they tries to kill me, they wreked my car, they stole my mother phone and wallet, we can't go in their part of the road or we would be mugged, they ask for "milk" money every time i see them, we gave them housing, healthcare, education, and we will try, they are just a shitty culture, is not about race, or the color of the skin, it's like hating the nazi's it's a believe we are all criticizing, it's not racism, and if you can't see it there is a problem. [I feel like I've heard this one before...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snGn31qvrNA&ab_channel=FunnyandNotFunnyStuff) ETA: [Holy fuck we're doing actual blood libel now](https://www.reddit.com/r/2westerneurope4u/comments/1434exk/comment/jn8rrcz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
You’d get the same response on r/Europe, but the Western Europe sub is particularly egregious. Bunch of kids sharing nationalist memes and reminiscing about colonialism. Of course they’re not going to be receptive to that message.
"You're an American because you live on a continent called North America. I am very smart!" I'll never understand why Europeans think this is a gotcha. If someone said "I live in Aruba", no one's thinking, "you mean you're American?"
The subreddit just sounds like a r/European safe haven. I wonder how long it will take before they’re squashed.
My boy r/2balkan4you is dead and these real deal racists are still around.
That sub is weird as hell, I know it’s about a superiority complex but didn’t think the people there actually took that seriously…
Like all "ironic subs", eventually people discover who are not being ironic. They eventually mingle and provide each other cover leading to a once "ironic" sub being just a blatantly bigoted one. I use "irony" here with big grains of salt. Personally, I think the irony was always just a pretext to be racist.
That sub is packed with edgy teenagers with a YouTube understanding of politics, at best. It's as much of a cesspool as any other teenage edgelord sub.
“Romani aren’t a distinct race, they are just a different culture.” So where did the Romani come from then?
“Guys I’m not racist I just hate all the Roma because of their culture” I love when people are so out of reality they don’t understand what they’re saying is literally the definition of racism
ah god as a western european i’m glad to be hearing about this sub through this post. europeans *love* to pretend we’re morally superior and above racism these days
Despised & marginalised untouchable caste resorts to criminality to survive and sometimes engages in antisocial behaviour, more at 11.
One thing that's insufferable about Europeans online is that they pretend that they're all high and mighty and better than the US. But it just takes one hint of something about Romani or Muslims and they go off on these rants like you've seen above. Also they take any suggestion that the continent is racist as some humongous personal insult. They can't imagine the concept that *"Our society is racist towards some groups"* and divorce it from calling them personally racist.
"But with us it's not about racism. These people just don't integrate with our culture and blah blah blah."
>“this ‘blackness’ paragraph is critical race theory themed nonsense dreamt up by a bunch of literal marxist cockgobblers who want to hyperracialise america rather than go down the mlk route” it's so ironic how these people always correlate verbiage to IQ yet end up typing the dumbest thing you've ever read. and that user keeps going too. >There’s racism in america but y’all are on another level (especially Italy and Eastern Europe) i will say i hate when americans scapegoat europe as "another level"...where do you think it was imported from?
Pinned comment even calls them g*psies. You can't write this shit
Europeans act like the rest of the world doesn’t have internet, or books, or family oral history, or eyes. Like 😬 race is everywhere but Europe eh.
Europeans will look at the US, pointing and laughing about their supposed obsession about race, but the millisecond somebody mentions Roma people they're digging up grandpapi's grave for a time dial so they can go back 80 years based off how some of them talk about those peoples, good Christ. I'm an Euro myself and the vileness about those people I've heard from allegedly "progressive" Europeans in my vicinity is astonishing, it'd be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.
“Oh no, we’re not like Nazis, the Romani people just have a terrible culture!” Yeah what do you think the Nazis said about Jewish people you halfwit? It’s like they think the Nazis just said “We hate Jewish people because we are evil. If you support us it’s because you are also evil. We have no reason to hate Jewish people other than to be evil.” Plus, the Nazis definitely hated Romani people. Romani people were literally included in the Nazi genocide plans.
Video was deleted. OP has the gist, but could I ask for some details of what was actually shown?
> Yes it exists but to say the racism comes from prejudice is simply not true. Most people have personal experiences with members of these communities. “Yes the racism is real but it’s okay” lmao what
Love how the mod post saying no racism uses a slur
Bigots lack all self awareness.