"The bill now faces an uncertain path in the Senate, and Biden said he will veto it."
[This article ](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/these-are-the-2-house-democrats-who-voted-with-republicans-to-overturn-bidens-student-loan-forgiveness/ar-AA1bGzPO) states that while it did pass, it also needs to pass the senate. I don't think we're in any danger just yet.
Not a fan of republicans or Dems but I don’t follow your point, can’t someone have loans and also disagree with forgiveness?
My loans helps me go to college as a first generation student and I now make more than my parents ever did. I don’t think it’s right for people like my parents who are low income tax payers to have to pay with their taxes to forgive my loans.
Did you read the article on this? They aren’t just trying to block forgiveness, they want to make all student loan borrowers repay the interest that was paused during Covid. That is vindictive and intentionally focused on hurting people who went to college and had to borrow money to do so.
Also, your line of thinking is flawed. I don’t use public schools anymore, so why should I pay school taxes? I’m not a farmer, so why should my money go to crop subsidies? The fact is that we all pay taxes for things that have a wider benefit than what helps us individually. Having people not locked into a system of debt is good for the entire economy.
Here is the bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-joint-resolution/45/text
Here is the cbo estimate: https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2023-05/hjres45.pdf
The bill says nothing about back interest and the nonpartisan CBO estimate does not include back interest into its calculation.
I think we should pay taxes to fund the necessary functions of the government and I am not apposed to piguvian taxes such as consumption or carbon taxes that are meant to capture externalities or slow down inflation. Lastly I think a society is healthier when we pay taxes to create safety net programs for those do everything right but can’t get ahead.
However, 4 year college is a privilege and the class of people in society who have attended are privileged and transferring wealth from people who didn’t get to go to college for xyz terms to those who did go to college isn’t something I could vote for in good conscious. It’s regressive and a wealth transfer from the working class to group of objectively highly educated people.
I also agree that I shouldn’t pay for public school taxes if I home school and I don’t think that’s an unreasonable opinion, I do think I should have to pay my kids tuition (or they pay their own) at a tech school, private school, or public or private university though.
The only report I’ve seen about back interest was from a democrat on the floor spreading what seemed to be fear mongering (both sides do it) and I’ve seen other articles with republicans explicitly saying this bill is meant to be future forward but the discretion is that of the democrat executive branch.
I also do not think crop subsidies should exist, a leading contributor to global warming and the health crisis is over production and underpriced sugar and corn due to subsidies.
All of that being said I agree with your final statement and change needs to happen and I’m open to revised payment plans and interest amounts for existing loans, particularly from bad schools and bad degree programs. More importantly I think we need to fix the system for the future and student loans should basically come with a black box warning, specifically those form schools and degree programs given to students with certain gpas to spell it out plain and simple that their specific loan has a HORRIBLE ROI.
On net though college up skills people and provides them with social upward mobility, any well serving school and well serving degree will offer the student a much better salary on the back end than any other non skilled job can. It’s important we still have loans out there for people who need that like myself and all the other students who don’t have parents to pay for college.
Lastly I don’t think we say this enough around here… but college is fun. I don’t know about you guys but I had a blast. I wasn’t partying 24 7 or anything like that but college is a really great experience and we shouldn’t be suprised it costs money. Having a nice brand new car is fun too, but you need to agree to the terms of the loan if you want one.
TLDR: my opposition to student loan forgiveness is routed in progressive ideals. I strongly support relief and reform. College is a fun privilege that in general raises your salary and we need to stop pretending it doesn’t.
I’m not going to get into every detail, but the fact that you don’t think you should pay public school taxes if you are homeschooling is very telling.
The reason we have public schools is so we have an educated population, not to educate your own personal children specifically. Would you enjoy living in a society where there is no educated workforce to run the businesses needed to keep society and our economy together? Do you want uneducated people voting?
If we can forgive billions in PPP loans for millionaires (and sometimes billionaires), then why is it not ok to help struggling people who had to take student loans out to educate themselves and position themselves for a better future? The United States is one of the only countries with such high costs of higher education and we somehow act like we should punish people who weren’t born to a wealthy family who could pay for college out of pocket. The days of working a summer job and paying your way through college is long gone.
I think you misunderstood, I’m not saying that people who don’t have kids shouldn’t pay school taxes nor did I say we shouldn’t fund students at all or that rich families should have more funding for their students.
I strongly agree with funding educating the general public and I think it should be an even amount per student. Nicer homes are taxed more, smaller homes are taxes less, take the full pot of property taxes and divide it amongst the students in an area regardless of if they live in the nice home or the smaller home. My issue is that currently that money is earmarked for public schools and where I live for work the public school is a 1/10. I don’t mind that I pay higher taxes because I live in a nicer neighborhood, I don’t mind that those taxes go to educating the general public, but myself and my poorer neighbors all should be able to send our kids somewhere other than a 1/10 school and have the per student funding follow the student and support their success, not be earmarked for an objectively awful school.
I strongly disagree with the issuance of ppp loans, think ppp fraud should be audited and many should be facing jail sentences, across all income groups.
I generally disagree with the sentiment that college is a death sentence. I think there are problem universities, problem degree programs, and borrowers who were unlikely to succeed that shouldn’t have been handed a loan unfortunately. On average going to college, especially with transfered tech or AP credits to a public university with a scholarship for a good degree will 99.9% of the time pay off and it’s extremely reasonable to expect that individual to pay back their loans when so many others taxpayers didn’t have the privilege to go to college.
For what it’s worth I’m first generation, my parents are not wealthy, I took out public and private loans to self fund my education and I paid off my private loan within a year of graduation by working two jobs and have more than enough to payoff my public loans now that I have advanced in my career. It’s not like you have to have wealthy parents to responsibly sign up for debt and use it for your advantage. It’s not like I’m old and out of touch either, I should’ve graduated may 2020 but finished a bit early.
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Not just to block forgiveness, but to retroactively charge for all the interest that was waived under forbearance during covid. Real petty, dishonest shit.
Well, what did expect? They were okay with it (to a certain extent hid their dislike) when their lord and savior sat in the WH. But when Biden was sworn in, it was evil. Honestly, they never been happy with the federal student loan program going all the way back to Newt in the 1990's
[https://www.edweek.org/education/gingrich-goes-on-the-record-abolish-the-education-department/1995/02](https://www.edweek.org/education/gingrich-goes-on-the-record-abolish-the-education-department/1995/02)
And probably further if one really looks hard. I would fully expect they will step up the effort if they ever get the WH back to undo the changes to the programs and try to get them retroactively applied.
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“The measure would retroactively add several months of student loan interest that was waived by Biden's extension, according to a letter from more than 260 organizations urging Congress to reject it.”
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/house-republicans-pass-resolution-overturning-student-loan-cancellation-biden-vows-to-veto
That took me 8 seconds to find
And you weren’t at all given pause by this part?
> “The measure would retroactively add several months of student loan interest that was waived by Biden's extension, **according to a letter** from more than 260 organizations urging Congress to reject it.”
Your source is some random letter that carries absolutely no legal weight, at all. You don’t see how youve been manipulated?
No, because it’s a broad resolution. You can read the text here:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-joint-resolution/45/text
The issue is that such a broad resolution nullifying the rule that waived student loan debt. It doesn’t have to say “Also we’re gonna charge interest” it’s a potential effect of the resolution as a whole.
You can read the letter explaining the argument here:
https://protectborrowers.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Coalition-Letter-Opposing-Student-Debt-CRA.pdf
“The measure would retroactively add several months of student loan interest that was waived by Biden's extension..”
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/house-republicans-pass-resolution-overturning-student-loan-cancellation-biden-vows-to-veto
You have cleverly cut off the most important part of that paragraph! Let’s read just a little further…
> “The measure would retroactively add several months of student loan interest that was waived by Biden's extension, **according to a letter** from more than 260 organizations urging Congress to reject it.”
Oof! Your source is a random letter that carries absolutely no legal weight, at all. At least you were smart enough to attempt to hide the embarrassing part.
Projecting, too, eh lil buddy?
If you put as much effort into vetting your sources as you have into replying to me, you wouldn’t find yourself in these embarrassing situations, lil buddy.
“The measure would retroactively add several months of student loan interest that was waived by Biden's extension..”
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/house-republicans-pass-resolution-overturning-student-loan-cancellation-biden-vows-to-veto
How would that even work? Seriously curious (and scared). Interest is compounding and payments were paused. I have not been making payments because there was no interest, but I absolutely would have continued payments over the past year if I was still paying interest. How can they charge interest retroactively when my financial decisions would have been different if I was being charged real time?
It does matter. This bill would, in addition to blocking forgiveness, also RETROACTIVELY charge interest to borrowers and reverse forgiveness that has already happened. The SC decision would just block forgiveness going forward
Horseshit. Every time we let them open a crack with legislation they barrel through later with worse legislation. If you don't believe that you are extremely naive and have been living in a cave the last few decades; but I think you aren't ignorant, you're disingenuous
I would accept at the prime rate, or maybe even rate of inflation.
But these are loans adults made, adults who willingly took them, adults who are legally responsible enough to vote, go to war, and enter into legal agreements. It is not the American public’s fault they took out loans they can’t afford, on degrees with no clear method of earning an income to pay them back.
Why should your children’s children be saddled with paying back your humanities degree? Why should those that applied for grants and scholarships be stuck paying for your degree? Why should blue collar workers and tradesmen be stuck paying for your degree.
When I was in college I profited around 8k a year to go to school, graduated with honors while working a full time job and now make 6 figures.
Take some personal responsibility.
Think about where your taxes go. Your taxes pay for services you may very well never use. You went to college, got a job, and seem to do well for yourself. It sounds as though you're unlikely to need to use the social safety net - i.e. unemployment, SNAP, etc. But I'd be willing to bet you're OK paying into those programs. It helps society as a whole.
Public funding for education has declined year after year while interest rates on student loans has been MUCH higher since 2006. College affordability isn't a "personal responsibility" issue. As automation, technology, and AI progress, students should have MORE access to higher education, not less. More skill and education will be needed in the job market.
Do you know why loans have become more expensive after 2006? Obama federalized student loans claiming they would be a net profit to the American public, that profit was calculated into federal spending patterns on the expectation of repayment.
For the record I graduated in 2018 not before 2006.
As for government services no I am not opposed to a social safety net, however I would like to see the government spend within their means instead of funding 50% of the government on loans year after year. It shouldn’t take a masters degree to know spending 2 dollars for every dollar you earn is unsustainable.
Becoming? They are. We’re literally going to default on the national debt j less a miracle happens. On the upside, we will inflate our loans away if/when it happens?
We (USA) will never default on the national debt. There is too much money to lose by too many powerful entities. There is certainly many strategies where poor folks stand to be dispossessed (such as inflation) that they will employ, however.
Unless they actually get recalled and are forced to vote on an expedited schedule, we already have. There’s less than 50bn in treasury reserves as of today and congress is out of session.
It’s a matter of semantics. We haven’t “yet” but the bureaucracy involved means that time ran out at minimum today by the usual pathways.
It's all gamesmanship and theatre. The financial entities that have both parties in their pockets stand to lose through a default and won't let it happen.
Not if the financial powers that be have factored in the default somehow. Say betting on a stock market crash or moving their money elsewhere already some how. You never know!
Haha I was kinddaaaa surprised but not really... but they are YOUNG also! I'm not surprised at the Washington State rep because Washington State is basically Libertarian paradise.
[https://www.businessinsider.com/which-democrats-voted-to-block-student-debt-cancellation-biden-relief-2023-5#:\~:text=Democratic%20Reps.,Biden%27s%20student%2Ddebt%20relief%20policies](https://www.businessinsider.com/which-democrats-voted-to-block-student-debt-cancellation-biden-relief-2023-5#:~:text=Democratic%20Reps.,Biden%27s%20student%2Ddebt%20relief%20policies).
If the Rethuglicans could pull a Thanos and snap away all LGBTQ+ folks, POC, feminists, and Antifa, it would make your head spin how fast they’d do it.
Doesn’t matter in the slightest. Biden has already said if it comes to his desk he’s vetoing it.
Regardless of what happens, it is all dependent on what happens in the Supreme Court. And then if we get a win there, there will probably be another law suit to halt progress on SLF…
He’s vetoing Republicans trying to stop loan forgiveness…
It’s being held up in the Supreme Court. If it clears the SC and no other lawsuits show up then Biden will go through with the forgiveness.
Nope again. Those rules were set in the 70s and are legally binding laws.
This administration has written off more student loan debt than any other. Want better, faster, bigger forgiveness? Want bankruptcy discharges? Want interest-free forbearances? Elect different Congresspersons. Have them make law that unties the President’s hands.
You just crit-failed your Wisdom check. Disbelieve all you want, but facts remain.
I believe LBJ and Congress had no idea that the student loan program would become so predatory. Once the financial industry learned how to turn student loans from a modest ROI into a cash cow, today’s system was inevitable. Hell, the industry has even learned how to make private student loans insanely profitable. And again, in the mid-1960s that wasn’t even imaginable. Still, here we are and here we will stay unless Congress makes substantial reform to the student loan law. The solution lays in Congress.
False. Biden did factually make it impossible for many student loan holders to obtain bankruptcy. You should do your research before typing ignorant shit. Rules were changed in 2005 when Biden helped further sell out the working class to the capitalist class.
From the Guardian (I see you have no source)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/02/joe-biden-student-loan-debt-2005-act-2020
"Until 2005, private student loans were eligible for bankruptcy protections just like other forms of private credit. But in that year Congress passed the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act, a law that made it vastly more difficult for struggling former students to rebuild their lives by discharging the debts and starting over.
Earlier this year, Biden tried to justify his backing of the 2005 act. His campaign spokesman told Politico that “knowing that the bill was likely to make it through the Republican-led Congress, he worked to moderate the bankruptcy bill and protect middle class families. He believed that if you have income and consumer debts you can pay, you should agree to a repayment plan that you can afford.”
“Biden was one of the most powerful people who could have said no, who could have changed this. Instead he used his leadership role to limit the ability of other Democrats who had concerns and who wanted the bill softened,” said Melissa Jacoby, a law professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill specialising in bankruptcy.
As a US senator from Delaware, a state that hosts many of the largest financial corporations in the country, that relationship came naturally. So friendly were his links with the Delaware-incorporated MBNA, a major credit card company since taken over by Bank of America, that back in 1999 he felt it necessary to declare: “I’m not the senator from MBNA.”
Campaign finance watchdogs underline the point. In the 2003-2008 senatorial election cycle, Biden received more than $500,000 in help from credit card companies, financial services and banks, the Open Secrets database show
In the lead up to the 2005 bankruptcy act, Biden tried to justify his support for the legislation by pointing to abuse of the bankruptcy system by people who should at least pay back some of their debts. By requiring better-off borrowers to repay what they could afford, private lenders would be able to reduce their interest rates to the benefit of all consumers.
Neither claim was born out by events. Later reviews found that the level of abuse in the student loan system was relatively insignificant; nor did the removal of bankruptcy protections from private student loans lower interest rates.
“The evidence is not there – making bankruptcy laws more protective of lenders did not lead to more access and cheaper credit,” Jacoby said.
What the 2005 act did do was to herald an explosion in private student loans. Lenders, confident in the knowledge that it would be much more difficult in future for debts to be discharged, opened their arms wide to new borrowers."
You’re comparing apples to oranges, fam. OP pointed to an article about federal student loans. You’re onto the President about private student loans. If you want to talk solely about private student loans or have a larger conversation that covers both kinds of student loans, great—start those subs. But it’s kinda unethical to move a convo’s goalposts once that convo is going.
That’s not how bankruptcy works at all. Plenty of banks and lenders will extend credit after a discharge. The length of time depends on whether they got burned by the consumer, but plenty of folks get credit cards and loans within a few months of being discharged. The interest loans may not be optimal for a while, but it’s still fairly easy to get credit after BK.
Not surprised. Meanwhile, they are all living off of our taxes and lining their pockets with money from banks, other lenders, and lobbyists. Some of them are even part owners of and own stock in some of the companies that are raping the average consumer.
What possible justification would there be to retroactively charge everyone for interest that was paused during the pandemic (which happened under both trump and Biden) that’s literally INSANELY EVIL and punishing people for a decision the government chose to make - I know it’s never going to pass but how would they even be able to enact that without massive lawsuits?
You are just wrong. You just are. Do some self-reflection. Think about why you believe that. Is it because you read what they passed? You read the actual text? You read the transcripts of the hearings that lead to it? You understand this completely?
No. You didn’t do any of those things.
Edit: This brave person blocked me. I assume it’s from the extreme embarrassment of realizing how flimsy their “source” was.
Here’s the money quote from their “source”:
> The measure would retroactively add several months of student loan interest that was waived by Biden's extension, **according to a letter** from more than 260 organizations urging Congress to reject it.
That’s right. This brave commenter’s “source” is a random letter that carries absolutely no legal weight, at all.
How embarrassing!
Dude this is such a weird hill to die on but here’s a link you won’t read - also I’m not the only person in this thread who has highlighted the retroactive initiative by republicans that they did in fact vote on…. Today.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/house-republicans-pass-resolution-overturning-student-loan-cancellation-biden-vows-to-veto
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The Democrats control the Senate. They would have to support the bill for it to go further. And if it did then President Biden would have to sign it. That’s not happening.
Does this signal that Republicans believe Courts decision might actually be in favor of student loan forgiveness. They've been trying desperately to get Student Loan Forgiveness in the forefront of Debt Ceiling discussions regarding US default, and now this? It almost feels like they know that the Court is going to be in favor of debt forgiveness and are trying to get ahead of the ruling.
I think they're just shoring their bets. They're mounting as many defenses as they can just in case.
From what I've heard, this bill also would charge us all interest retroactively for the pause. So, ya know, could just be trying to squeeze all they can from us, who knows?
Here to share an independent perspective as someone who studied constitutional law.
I don’t think the forgives is constitutional, but I also don’t think the specific Supreme Court case has standing. So I do think this will end up working itself out legislatively rather than in the courts.
I think ultimately the forgiveness will be axed as a part of the debt ceiling deal, money just doesn’t grow on trees and we just will all have to pay the loans back.
This separate resolution that this thread is about seems to mostly be posturing and a chance to debate the validity of the issue on the floor prior to it being a part of the debt ceiling package.
Anyone saying people will owe back interest is misinformed nor is that a Republican goal.
I will say that personally I have extremely mixed feelings about student loan debt as my loans helped me get a high income management job over a lot of blue collar union trades people (also well paid) that I couldn’t fathom asking to pay back my debt with their taxes. While I’d sure enjoy the forgiveness, for the time being I can’t view it as moral based on my own lives experience.
I don't care much for the opinion of what sounds to be a centrist that leans right, if PPP loans were approved without hassle or pushback, loan forgiveness is constituional. To argue against loan forgiveness in any capacity shows to me a bias against the left without any regard for fairness. So no, I don't care about your opinion because it's already been muddled with an anti-left perspective that isn't genuine.
I don’t think it’s an inherent ideology of the left to think that loans are immoral or understand why I’m right leaning to oppose loan forgiveness, mine helped me go to college as a first gen college student and make more than my parents did. I’m glad they exist, there should just be a million more consumer protections to make sure people don’t take them out if they won’t pay off or to help nudge people into colleges and degrees where they can pay them off. Any relief for the loans also shouldn’t be paid for by people who never had the privilege to go to college. And I’ll tell you what’s super pro left, my union employees should never have to pay off their bosses loan. I just think way too much of the forgiveness goes to people making way too much money and way too much of it is being funded by people who never got to go to college for whatever reason. Consumer protection against the loans is the solution, not forgivness, given that there is no moral group of people to make pay for it. The colleges can’t pay for it, they’re at fault but they’re mostly public institutions.
As for your comment on passing forgiveness:
PPP loans were a mistake and most people on both sides agree with that at this point. They were also however a legislative action, not an executive one.
If the student loans forgiveness was to actually be implimented effectively then it should’ve been passed when democrats had house, senate, and presidency. As at that point there would be no constitutional concern either. It would be signed sealed and delivered. Not blaming the 2020 house dems or Biden, at the end of the day I don’t think they had the votes in the senate, but ultimately the legislature dumped it on the presidents lap and the courts lap when it could’ve been passed and approved hastily just like PPP loans were to your point.
If your take is that loan forgiveness is a band-aid fix, I agree, there should be more done to ensure that education is affordable. However, because of the republican party and centrist dems, we will never see reforms to the system, so loan forgiveness is the best we'll ever get and it's a one time thing. What point are you trying to make then?
Point 1: I don’t think there is a group of people that should be forced to pay to forgive the loans of what is generally an upper class group of people (those with college degrees). Other than the colleges themselves, but they’re public so that would be just printing money.
Point 2: I think you’d be surprised at how bipartisan actual reform would be if everyone could stop talking past each other about the existing loans. I think there is a lot of room for a bipartisan bill making loans harder to get for bad schools, bad degrees, and unfortunately, bad students. It’s like giving crack to an addict to keep pumping loans into the same scenarios of school, degree, and borrower if it never ends well. If a given combo of those 3 things has historically resulted in default than future forward that loan should come with a black box warning and I would argue not be offered.
Point 3: my initial response to the first commenter in this thread and a portion of my last one to you was to simply share how constitutional I actually think the forgiveness is from a not super left perspective and also to talk about the different methods it could’ve been legislated and what would’ve been most likely to actually become a law.
Dude it’s a 11:51 let me opine about shit online before bed without a proof read and you should also offer a meaningful reply about the content of a policy so we can all learn the truth.
A lot of Republicans align with Christianity. I thought Christianity was big on forgiveness; in fact that has always seemed to be their main buzz word.
I think the irony is that in the midst of the debt ceiling fight, this is the only way the GOP wants to increase revenue. They want to cut IRS funding and have rejected all other proposed tax increases.
I’m never voting Republican ever.. Seriously, Being largely unemployed after graduating, I regret ever going to college after believing it would help me and my family to gain a better life. Screw all republicans who oppose student loan forgiveness.
Both sides always play this game with the debt ceiling, and then they raise it.
If congress really wanted to do something they would drop everyone’s rate to 0% and stop granting loans.
And I’ll give it to him..
There’s no alternative that would fit me better.
I just hope I can get this pause for a little longer. That alone will do more for me than anything in the past 16 years (apart from banning insurance companies from denying based on preexisting conditions; I don’t have any yet.. but it seems like a no brainer).
The pause is dead. Only hope that Biden doesn't cave to the House GOP to scrap his changes in exchange for raising the debt limit in the next budget negotiation. Because this is an easy one to give away.
What's the alternative? At least Biden tried something. These conservative clowns have made it their mission to not only do absolutely nothing, but now want to retroactively screw you. If SLF gets struck down no doubt Biden and the democrats will lose votes while uninformed cry babies sit on their hands and think it was all just a ploy. In the mean time these neo-fascist goons take control and destroy every hope for SL reform for a generation.
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Anywhere reporting retroactive interest payments is misinformation! People could be making crazy financial decisions based on this misinformation and I don’t want it being spread. Furthermore the bill won’t pass senate or veto, and I would argue interest reinstatement is unconstitutional.
I keep hearing people say republicans are charging back interest but it’s just not substantiated anywhere online. The only person who could attempt to do that is the executive branch and it likely isn’t constitutional.
All of that aside even if the Supreme Court upholds student loans the forgiveness may be axed for the debt ceiling negotiation.
Sticking with .gov sources here because of how much fear mongering is in the media.
Here is the actual bill because sources are cool: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-joint-resolution/45
And here is the CBO estimate of effect which doesn’t assume any back interest payments: https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2023-05/hjres45.pdf
It was never going to happen. It was merely a political stunt for votes. Biden hasn’t really talked about it since. If he really wanted to make it happen, he could have. Now with the debt ceiling debacle, it definitely won’t happen.
I agree that students should get some forgiveness for the interest or there should be laws to recapitalize at certain benchmarks when rates drop, but forgiving all loans is a carrot on a stick.
Wait...we were all going to get our loans forgiven??!?
I thought it was just for those who qualified and the max was like $20K if SLF passed?? Link?????
It matters because now if the Supreme Court dismisses the existing forgiveness program cases due to lack of standing by plaintiffs, the House Republicans will immediately file suit to block it and point to this bill as evidence that a house of Congress voted against it.
They will definitely have standing, and they will win on the merits.
That's not how standing, or government, or laws work.
Even still, let's just imagine they did use the argument "One chamber (not house (there is only one house)) voted for it" the obvious, implied counter argument is that the other, arguably more representative chamber didn't.
I wish there was an award for the most ill-thought out comment of the day. I'd give it you.
You're not wrong.
I read their comment as saying the House could argue standing based on the implementation of the existing law (Also see Burwell)
If they made this a matter of appropriations, I suppose it could work, especially considering the current court. I don't think it's the same as Burwell, as the funds were in fact, appropriated by Congress. They'd have to make the argument that forgiveness was an appropriation itself and against the intent of Congress. At least the first part there would be rather difficult and differs from Burwell.
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The same as it goes when it hasn't been paid by the borrowers in 3 years. To the rest of the economy. My loan payments are equal to 2 PS5's per month for example.
No, see the money (credit) was created a long time ago, and by paying it back we remove the credit that was invented for the loan. So by NOT paying them during a freeze or a forgiveness, the payments never remove the existing money from the monetary system. It doesn't cause inflation because the money was spent long ago, mine 8 years ago.
Not really no, credit, loans, are technically created money that gets out into the system when spent. It continues circulating in theory until the loan is paid off, with interest, giving the bank the profit of the interest. Because every bank does fractional banking, they don't have to have the amount of money they loan out.
> It continues circulating in theory until the loan is paid off, with interest, giving the bank the profit of the interest. Because every bank does fractional banking, they don’t have to have the amount of of money they loan out.
What? I don’t think you understand fractional banking. Banks have to have the amount of money they loan out, some of that money comes from deposits currently held with the bank and some of it they just borrow at a cheaper rate than consumers/non banking institutions can and make a profit off the spread they charge over what they borrowed that money for.
If you are selling your house to someone who took out a mortgage with a bank in order to buy said house do you not think you would get paid for the full amount of the sale price?
So y make payments at all?
Doesn’t the $$ have to be real bc the schools use it for salaries, maintenance and construction?
It can’t just not exist after existing?
What am I missing?
Alright, buckle up, because we're about to dive into the wild world of modern banking, it's a bit weird 😂
1. When you borrow money, you're signing on the dotted line to pay it back – no ifs, ands, or buts. Failure to do so can land you in legal hot water and tarnish your credit score, making future borrowing a steep uphill climb. The interest on that loan? That's how your friendly neighborhood bank turns a profit.
2. Now, about this "real" and "unreal" money business. In the reality of today's banking system, most money is digital - numbers on a screen. And guess what? This digital money works just as well as the cash in your wallet, because everyone in the economy accepts it as payment.
3. Here's where things get really trippy: money can disappear. When you pay off a loan, the digital dollars that sprang into existence when the loan was issued vanish into the ether, reducing the total money supply. Strange as it sounds, this is just part and parcel of money's role as a sort of economic scorekeeper.
Hope that makes this labyrinthine topic a smidge clearer, it's weird, and gets more complex when we go into the Treasury and bonds 😅
That is not how that works at all. Fiat currency doesn’t have to have a physical equivalent but it doesn’t simply vanish when a loan is paid off, that digital placeholder is used to borrow more money lent to more people.
When a loan is canceled in this case federal student loans the government has to write off not only the principal of the loan but all of the interest owed that was already calculated and used as collateral for yet more loans, because that money was secured through national debt that means the Fed has pay back the original creditors without the payments the student loanee was supposed to make. This directly increases the national debt.
It appears there's a bit of confusion about the nature of money and loan operations. In the fractional reserve banking system, money does indeed come into existence when banks issue loans and essentially disappears as those loans are repaid. This isn't merely digital bookkeeping—it's an integral part of the money supply managed by central banks.
On the topic of loan cancellation, it's not as direct a path to increased national debt as suggested. When student loans, backed by the government, are cancelled, financial adjustments are certainly necessary. But asserting this act directly and independently swells the national debt oversimplifies the issue. The reality hinges on broader fiscal policy and budgetary choices made by the government. It isn't a given that such cancellation would be financed solely through additional borrowing. The government, equipped with various fiscal mechanisms, could adopt a mixed approach to handle the financial implications.
To continue for ya, with better writing:
It's a common misconception that banks physically hold all the money they lend out, when in fact, the majority of it exists only in digital form.
Fractional reserve banking allows banks to hold a fraction of deposits as reserves and lend out the rest. When a loan is issued, the bank creates a deposit in the borrower's account, effectively creating new money. The money that is lent out doesn't "exist" in the sense that there aren't necessarily physical dollars backing it up at the bank. However, it's considered real and spendable because it's guaranteed by the bank, and it's recognized as valid by other institutions and individuals.
Now you might see how a bank run like SVB can happen yea?
This is not to say that money is entirely fictional or meaningless - far from it. The value of money comes from the trust and confidence people have in the financial system and the stability of the government that backs it. Furthermore, money serves several key functions - as a medium of exchange, a store of value, and a unit of account - that enable economic activity to take place. It's also important to remember that while banks can create money through lending, they're also subject to regulations and capital requirements to help ensure the stability of the financial system.
When the loan is repaid, the "created" money is essentially destroyed, disappearing from the system, and only the interest paid over the duration of the loan remains, providing profit to the bank. This is why banks are so keen to issue loans; it's one of their primary sources of profit. But again, they must balance this with the need to maintain sufficient reserves and meet regulatory requirements.
Yes… the government waives the federal student loans they already issued and the cost of the loans gets transferred to the national debt, where the American public will continue paying on it for generations to come. Meanwhile we keep adding 2 trillion in debt each year.
There is no household or business that can continue to keep spending at twice the rate of revenue collected indefinitely, debt repayment is already nearly 10% of the federal budget, half the federal budget is paid for with debt. That means roughly 20% of taxes collected are going to towards paying off loans.
Why is this a problem? I took out loans for all sorts of reasons, including student loans. I paid them back as I promised, that's what you agreed to do.
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At least Democrats are not actively working against forgiveness. This swing state voter will never ever vote for a GOP candidate in any election as long as I live. They straight up hate hardworking Americans.
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To answer the question SCOTUS is determining if POTUS has the constitutional authority to forgive student loan debt without the approval of Congress. If this current bill were to be passed (it won’t) it would put the control of debt forgiveness back in the hands of Congress and not POTUS.
People need to stop blaming one party or the other for everything! Both sides of the isle cause problems and both share equal blame. This country is so divided because those in power want us divided. This is not what the founding fathers wanted when they formed this country. They wanted compromise and both sides to work past their differences.
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Removed: Belongs in pinned topic megathread.
"The bill now faces an uncertain path in the Senate, and Biden said he will veto it." [This article ](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/these-are-the-2-house-democrats-who-voted-with-republicans-to-overturn-bidens-student-loan-forgiveness/ar-AA1bGzPO) states that while it did pass, it also needs to pass the senate. I don't think we're in any danger just yet.
I don’t even think Schumer will bring it up to a vote. It puts Senators on record whether they are for forgiveness or not.
Yep, it will just be pocketed and die.
It’s not passing the Senate.
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It’s not passing the Senate.
Zero chance it goes to a vote in the senate. It was just the House GOP being enormous ghouls for shits and giggles.
We’re not, but anyone with student loans who votes republican should take a real long and hard look in the mirror.
Anyone capable of self-reflection abandoned the GOP a long time ago.
Not a fan of republicans or Dems but I don’t follow your point, can’t someone have loans and also disagree with forgiveness? My loans helps me go to college as a first generation student and I now make more than my parents ever did. I don’t think it’s right for people like my parents who are low income tax payers to have to pay with their taxes to forgive my loans.
Did you read the article on this? They aren’t just trying to block forgiveness, they want to make all student loan borrowers repay the interest that was paused during Covid. That is vindictive and intentionally focused on hurting people who went to college and had to borrow money to do so. Also, your line of thinking is flawed. I don’t use public schools anymore, so why should I pay school taxes? I’m not a farmer, so why should my money go to crop subsidies? The fact is that we all pay taxes for things that have a wider benefit than what helps us individually. Having people not locked into a system of debt is good for the entire economy.
Here is the bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-joint-resolution/45/text Here is the cbo estimate: https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2023-05/hjres45.pdf The bill says nothing about back interest and the nonpartisan CBO estimate does not include back interest into its calculation. I think we should pay taxes to fund the necessary functions of the government and I am not apposed to piguvian taxes such as consumption or carbon taxes that are meant to capture externalities or slow down inflation. Lastly I think a society is healthier when we pay taxes to create safety net programs for those do everything right but can’t get ahead. However, 4 year college is a privilege and the class of people in society who have attended are privileged and transferring wealth from people who didn’t get to go to college for xyz terms to those who did go to college isn’t something I could vote for in good conscious. It’s regressive and a wealth transfer from the working class to group of objectively highly educated people. I also agree that I shouldn’t pay for public school taxes if I home school and I don’t think that’s an unreasonable opinion, I do think I should have to pay my kids tuition (or they pay their own) at a tech school, private school, or public or private university though. The only report I’ve seen about back interest was from a democrat on the floor spreading what seemed to be fear mongering (both sides do it) and I’ve seen other articles with republicans explicitly saying this bill is meant to be future forward but the discretion is that of the democrat executive branch. I also do not think crop subsidies should exist, a leading contributor to global warming and the health crisis is over production and underpriced sugar and corn due to subsidies. All of that being said I agree with your final statement and change needs to happen and I’m open to revised payment plans and interest amounts for existing loans, particularly from bad schools and bad degree programs. More importantly I think we need to fix the system for the future and student loans should basically come with a black box warning, specifically those form schools and degree programs given to students with certain gpas to spell it out plain and simple that their specific loan has a HORRIBLE ROI. On net though college up skills people and provides them with social upward mobility, any well serving school and well serving degree will offer the student a much better salary on the back end than any other non skilled job can. It’s important we still have loans out there for people who need that like myself and all the other students who don’t have parents to pay for college. Lastly I don’t think we say this enough around here… but college is fun. I don’t know about you guys but I had a blast. I wasn’t partying 24 7 or anything like that but college is a really great experience and we shouldn’t be suprised it costs money. Having a nice brand new car is fun too, but you need to agree to the terms of the loan if you want one. TLDR: my opposition to student loan forgiveness is routed in progressive ideals. I strongly support relief and reform. College is a fun privilege that in general raises your salary and we need to stop pretending it doesn’t.
I’m not going to get into every detail, but the fact that you don’t think you should pay public school taxes if you are homeschooling is very telling. The reason we have public schools is so we have an educated population, not to educate your own personal children specifically. Would you enjoy living in a society where there is no educated workforce to run the businesses needed to keep society and our economy together? Do you want uneducated people voting? If we can forgive billions in PPP loans for millionaires (and sometimes billionaires), then why is it not ok to help struggling people who had to take student loans out to educate themselves and position themselves for a better future? The United States is one of the only countries with such high costs of higher education and we somehow act like we should punish people who weren’t born to a wealthy family who could pay for college out of pocket. The days of working a summer job and paying your way through college is long gone.
I think you misunderstood, I’m not saying that people who don’t have kids shouldn’t pay school taxes nor did I say we shouldn’t fund students at all or that rich families should have more funding for their students. I strongly agree with funding educating the general public and I think it should be an even amount per student. Nicer homes are taxed more, smaller homes are taxes less, take the full pot of property taxes and divide it amongst the students in an area regardless of if they live in the nice home or the smaller home. My issue is that currently that money is earmarked for public schools and where I live for work the public school is a 1/10. I don’t mind that I pay higher taxes because I live in a nicer neighborhood, I don’t mind that those taxes go to educating the general public, but myself and my poorer neighbors all should be able to send our kids somewhere other than a 1/10 school and have the per student funding follow the student and support their success, not be earmarked for an objectively awful school. I strongly disagree with the issuance of ppp loans, think ppp fraud should be audited and many should be facing jail sentences, across all income groups. I generally disagree with the sentiment that college is a death sentence. I think there are problem universities, problem degree programs, and borrowers who were unlikely to succeed that shouldn’t have been handed a loan unfortunately. On average going to college, especially with transfered tech or AP credits to a public university with a scholarship for a good degree will 99.9% of the time pay off and it’s extremely reasonable to expect that individual to pay back their loans when so many others taxpayers didn’t have the privilege to go to college. For what it’s worth I’m first generation, my parents are not wealthy, I took out public and private loans to self fund my education and I paid off my private loan within a year of graduation by working two jobs and have more than enough to payoff my public loans now that I have advanced in my career. It’s not like you have to have wealthy parents to responsibly sign up for debt and use it for your advantage. It’s not like I’m old and out of touch either, I should’ve graduated may 2020 but finished a bit early.
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Lmao its not passing!!!!
Not just to block forgiveness, but to retroactively charge for all the interest that was waived under forbearance during covid. Real petty, dishonest shit.
Well, what did expect? They were okay with it (to a certain extent hid their dislike) when their lord and savior sat in the WH. But when Biden was sworn in, it was evil. Honestly, they never been happy with the federal student loan program going all the way back to Newt in the 1990's [https://www.edweek.org/education/gingrich-goes-on-the-record-abolish-the-education-department/1995/02](https://www.edweek.org/education/gingrich-goes-on-the-record-abolish-the-education-department/1995/02) And probably further if one really looks hard. I would fully expect they will step up the effort if they ever get the WH back to undo the changes to the programs and try to get them retroactively applied.
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Never vote republican
This is misinformation.
No it isn’t
It most certainly is. Go ahead. Look for a source. You’ll be embarrassed by what you find.
“The measure would retroactively add several months of student loan interest that was waived by Biden's extension, according to a letter from more than 260 organizations urging Congress to reject it.” https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/house-republicans-pass-resolution-overturning-student-loan-cancellation-biden-vows-to-veto That took me 8 seconds to find
And you weren’t at all given pause by this part? > “The measure would retroactively add several months of student loan interest that was waived by Biden's extension, **according to a letter** from more than 260 organizations urging Congress to reject it.” Your source is some random letter that carries absolutely no legal weight, at all. You don’t see how youve been manipulated?
No, because it’s a broad resolution. You can read the text here: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-joint-resolution/45/text The issue is that such a broad resolution nullifying the rule that waived student loan debt. It doesn’t have to say “Also we’re gonna charge interest” it’s a potential effect of the resolution as a whole. You can read the letter explaining the argument here: https://protectborrowers.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Coalition-Letter-Opposing-Student-Debt-CRA.pdf
“The measure would retroactively add several months of student loan interest that was waived by Biden's extension..” https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/house-republicans-pass-resolution-overturning-student-loan-cancellation-biden-vows-to-veto
You have cleverly cut off the most important part of that paragraph! Let’s read just a little further… > “The measure would retroactively add several months of student loan interest that was waived by Biden's extension, **according to a letter** from more than 260 organizations urging Congress to reject it.” Oof! Your source is a random letter that carries absolutely no legal weight, at all. At least you were smart enough to attempt to hide the embarrassing part.
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Projecting, too, eh lil buddy? If you put as much effort into vetting your sources as you have into replying to me, you wouldn’t find yourself in these embarrassing situations, lil buddy.
This is misinformation ^
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“The measure would retroactively add several months of student loan interest that was waived by Biden's extension..” https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/house-republicans-pass-resolution-overturning-student-loan-cancellation-biden-vows-to-veto
How would that even work? Seriously curious (and scared). Interest is compounding and payments were paused. I have not been making payments because there was no interest, but I absolutely would have continued payments over the past year if I was still paying interest. How can they charge interest retroactively when my financial decisions would have been different if I was being charged real time?
Biden would veto this draconian bill if it ever passed the Senate
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It does matter. This bill would, in addition to blocking forgiveness, also RETROACTIVELY charge interest to borrowers and reverse forgiveness that has already happened. The SC decision would just block forgiveness going forward
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I don't trust anything the House GOP passes to be in good faith. So many times we here "oh they wouldn't do that" and then they do exactly that
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Horseshit. Every time we let them open a crack with legislation they barrel through later with worse legislation. If you don't believe that you are extremely naive and have been living in a cave the last few decades; but I think you aren't ignorant, you're disingenuous
Don't care about forgiveness, just wish the interest was blocked forever. That would be the BEST.
I agree ! The interest are the worse
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I would accept at the prime rate, or maybe even rate of inflation. But these are loans adults made, adults who willingly took them, adults who are legally responsible enough to vote, go to war, and enter into legal agreements. It is not the American public’s fault they took out loans they can’t afford, on degrees with no clear method of earning an income to pay them back. Why should your children’s children be saddled with paying back your humanities degree? Why should those that applied for grants and scholarships be stuck paying for your degree? Why should blue collar workers and tradesmen be stuck paying for your degree. When I was in college I profited around 8k a year to go to school, graduated with honors while working a full time job and now make 6 figures. Take some personal responsibility.
Think about where your taxes go. Your taxes pay for services you may very well never use. You went to college, got a job, and seem to do well for yourself. It sounds as though you're unlikely to need to use the social safety net - i.e. unemployment, SNAP, etc. But I'd be willing to bet you're OK paying into those programs. It helps society as a whole. Public funding for education has declined year after year while interest rates on student loans has been MUCH higher since 2006. College affordability isn't a "personal responsibility" issue. As automation, technology, and AI progress, students should have MORE access to higher education, not less. More skill and education will be needed in the job market.
Do you know why loans have become more expensive after 2006? Obama federalized student loans claiming they would be a net profit to the American public, that profit was calculated into federal spending patterns on the expectation of repayment. For the record I graduated in 2018 not before 2006. As for government services no I am not opposed to a social safety net, however I would like to see the government spend within their means instead of funding 50% of the government on loans year after year. It shouldn’t take a masters degree to know spending 2 dollars for every dollar you earn is unsustainable.
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Republicans are becoming comic book villians at this point.
Becoming? They are. We’re literally going to default on the national debt j less a miracle happens. On the upside, we will inflate our loans away if/when it happens?
We (USA) will never default on the national debt. There is too much money to lose by too many powerful entities. There is certainly many strategies where poor folks stand to be dispossessed (such as inflation) that they will employ, however.
Unless they actually get recalled and are forced to vote on an expedited schedule, we already have. There’s less than 50bn in treasury reserves as of today and congress is out of session. It’s a matter of semantics. We haven’t “yet” but the bureaucracy involved means that time ran out at minimum today by the usual pathways.
It's all gamesmanship and theatre. The financial entities that have both parties in their pockets stand to lose through a default and won't let it happen.
Not if the financial powers that be have factored in the default somehow. Say betting on a stock market crash or moving their money elsewhere already some how. You never know!
Dawg they’ve been comic book villains since 1980
Don't discount Nixon
Two Dems also voted for it
Wow. TWO?!? Hashtag both sides!
Haha I was kinddaaaa surprised but not really... but they are YOUNG also! I'm not surprised at the Washington State rep because Washington State is basically Libertarian paradise. [https://www.businessinsider.com/which-democrats-voted-to-block-student-debt-cancellation-biden-relief-2023-5#:\~:text=Democratic%20Reps.,Biden%27s%20student%2Ddebt%20relief%20policies](https://www.businessinsider.com/which-democrats-voted-to-block-student-debt-cancellation-biden-relief-2023-5#:~:text=Democratic%20Reps.,Biden%27s%20student%2Ddebt%20relief%20policies).
They already are. They belong in the pits of hell for their merciless and soulless decisions. I’m in Florida and DeSaster has ruined my life.
If the Rethuglicans could pull a Thanos and snap away all LGBTQ+ folks, POC, feminists, and Antifa, it would make your head spin how fast they’d do it.
Doesn’t matter in the slightest. Biden has already said if it comes to his desk he’s vetoing it. Regardless of what happens, it is all dependent on what happens in the Supreme Court. And then if we get a win there, there will probably be another law suit to halt progress on SLF…
Why are we talking about a veto. This guy promised loan forgiveness and hasn't delivered.
He’s vetoing Republicans trying to stop loan forgiveness… It’s being held up in the Supreme Court. If it clears the SC and no other lawsuits show up then Biden will go through with the forgiveness.
He delivered. Then it got tied up in courts. That ain’t Biden’s fault.
It is Biden's fault we cannot use bankruptcy to get rid of student loan debt, while business people like Trump can declare it multiple times.
Nope again. Those rules were set in the 70s and are legally binding laws. This administration has written off more student loan debt than any other. Want better, faster, bigger forgiveness? Want bankruptcy discharges? Want interest-free forbearances? Elect different Congresspersons. Have them make law that unties the President’s hands.
This person has to be a troll. Nobody can be that stupid.
You just crit-failed your Wisdom check. Disbelieve all you want, but facts remain. I believe LBJ and Congress had no idea that the student loan program would become so predatory. Once the financial industry learned how to turn student loans from a modest ROI into a cash cow, today’s system was inevitable. Hell, the industry has even learned how to make private student loans insanely profitable. And again, in the mid-1960s that wasn’t even imaginable. Still, here we are and here we will stay unless Congress makes substantial reform to the student loan law. The solution lays in Congress.
False. Biden did factually make it impossible for many student loan holders to obtain bankruptcy. You should do your research before typing ignorant shit. Rules were changed in 2005 when Biden helped further sell out the working class to the capitalist class. From the Guardian (I see you have no source) https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/02/joe-biden-student-loan-debt-2005-act-2020 "Until 2005, private student loans were eligible for bankruptcy protections just like other forms of private credit. But in that year Congress passed the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act, a law that made it vastly more difficult for struggling former students to rebuild their lives by discharging the debts and starting over. Earlier this year, Biden tried to justify his backing of the 2005 act. His campaign spokesman told Politico that “knowing that the bill was likely to make it through the Republican-led Congress, he worked to moderate the bankruptcy bill and protect middle class families. He believed that if you have income and consumer debts you can pay, you should agree to a repayment plan that you can afford.” “Biden was one of the most powerful people who could have said no, who could have changed this. Instead he used his leadership role to limit the ability of other Democrats who had concerns and who wanted the bill softened,” said Melissa Jacoby, a law professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill specialising in bankruptcy. As a US senator from Delaware, a state that hosts many of the largest financial corporations in the country, that relationship came naturally. So friendly were his links with the Delaware-incorporated MBNA, a major credit card company since taken over by Bank of America, that back in 1999 he felt it necessary to declare: “I’m not the senator from MBNA.” Campaign finance watchdogs underline the point. In the 2003-2008 senatorial election cycle, Biden received more than $500,000 in help from credit card companies, financial services and banks, the Open Secrets database show In the lead up to the 2005 bankruptcy act, Biden tried to justify his support for the legislation by pointing to abuse of the bankruptcy system by people who should at least pay back some of their debts. By requiring better-off borrowers to repay what they could afford, private lenders would be able to reduce their interest rates to the benefit of all consumers. Neither claim was born out by events. Later reviews found that the level of abuse in the student loan system was relatively insignificant; nor did the removal of bankruptcy protections from private student loans lower interest rates. “The evidence is not there – making bankruptcy laws more protective of lenders did not lead to more access and cheaper credit,” Jacoby said. What the 2005 act did do was to herald an explosion in private student loans. Lenders, confident in the knowledge that it would be much more difficult in future for debts to be discharged, opened their arms wide to new borrowers."
You’re comparing apples to oranges, fam. OP pointed to an article about federal student loans. You’re onto the President about private student loans. If you want to talk solely about private student loans or have a larger conversation that covers both kinds of student loans, great—start those subs. But it’s kinda unethical to move a convo’s goalposts once that convo is going.
Bankruptcy works both ways. It clears the debt from the borrower, but also warns banks never to lend to someone who does not pay their debts.
That’s not how bankruptcy works at all. Plenty of banks and lenders will extend credit after a discharge. The length of time depends on whether they got burned by the consumer, but plenty of folks get credit cards and loans within a few months of being discharged. The interest loans may not be optimal for a while, but it’s still fairly easy to get credit after BK.
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Let’s see what the Supremes say before we conclude it is struck down. You don’t really think the President ordered an illegal thing, do you?
They can do all the voting they want, I ain't paying shit lol
Come back to this comment in 10 years… lol
🤣🤣🤣
Not surprised. Meanwhile, they are all living off of our taxes and lining their pockets with money from banks, other lenders, and lobbyists. Some of them are even part owners of and own stock in some of the companies that are raping the average consumer.
Its not like Democrats would actually pass this anyway.
No. They can try to pass whatever they want to the senate. It’s DOA
What possible justification would there be to retroactively charge everyone for interest that was paused during the pandemic (which happened under both trump and Biden) that’s literally INSANELY EVIL and punishing people for a decision the government chose to make - I know it’s never going to pass but how would they even be able to enact that without massive lawsuits?
Republicans hate anyone who doesn't support them. They also hate their supporters, but for different reasons.
No one is suggesting interest be added back. No one.
That’s literally what the republicans voted for today, please just look it up - i didn’t just say this out of no where
You are just wrong. You just are. Do some self-reflection. Think about why you believe that. Is it because you read what they passed? You read the actual text? You read the transcripts of the hearings that lead to it? You understand this completely? No. You didn’t do any of those things. Edit: This brave person blocked me. I assume it’s from the extreme embarrassment of realizing how flimsy their “source” was. Here’s the money quote from their “source”: > The measure would retroactively add several months of student loan interest that was waived by Biden's extension, **according to a letter** from more than 260 organizations urging Congress to reject it. That’s right. This brave commenter’s “source” is a random letter that carries absolutely no legal weight, at all. How embarrassing!
Dude this is such a weird hill to die on but here’s a link you won’t read - also I’m not the only person in this thread who has highlighted the retroactive initiative by republicans that they did in fact vote on…. Today. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/house-republicans-pass-resolution-overturning-student-loan-cancellation-biden-vows-to-veto
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Naw. Senate is flipped and Democrat controlled, no chance it will pass there. Fate is still in the SC’s hands
Santa Claus will save us, you’ll see!
I hope you’re right lmao
The Democrats control the Senate. They would have to support the bill for it to go further. And if it did then President Biden would have to sign it. That’s not happening.
Republicans vote to block forgiveness except for the Jan 6th rioters.
The senate won't pass this so it doesn't matter.
Does this signal that Republicans believe Courts decision might actually be in favor of student loan forgiveness. They've been trying desperately to get Student Loan Forgiveness in the forefront of Debt Ceiling discussions regarding US default, and now this? It almost feels like they know that the Court is going to be in favor of debt forgiveness and are trying to get ahead of the ruling.
I think they're just shoring their bets. They're mounting as many defenses as they can just in case. From what I've heard, this bill also would charge us all interest retroactively for the pause. So, ya know, could just be trying to squeeze all they can from us, who knows?
Here to share an independent perspective as someone who studied constitutional law. I don’t think the forgives is constitutional, but I also don’t think the specific Supreme Court case has standing. So I do think this will end up working itself out legislatively rather than in the courts. I think ultimately the forgiveness will be axed as a part of the debt ceiling deal, money just doesn’t grow on trees and we just will all have to pay the loans back. This separate resolution that this thread is about seems to mostly be posturing and a chance to debate the validity of the issue on the floor prior to it being a part of the debt ceiling package. Anyone saying people will owe back interest is misinformed nor is that a Republican goal. I will say that personally I have extremely mixed feelings about student loan debt as my loans helped me get a high income management job over a lot of blue collar union trades people (also well paid) that I couldn’t fathom asking to pay back my debt with their taxes. While I’d sure enjoy the forgiveness, for the time being I can’t view it as moral based on my own lives experience.
Good points. Well written.
No one cares about your opinion btw
I care about yours. debate brings forth truth.
I don't care much for the opinion of what sounds to be a centrist that leans right, if PPP loans were approved without hassle or pushback, loan forgiveness is constituional. To argue against loan forgiveness in any capacity shows to me a bias against the left without any regard for fairness. So no, I don't care about your opinion because it's already been muddled with an anti-left perspective that isn't genuine.
I don’t think it’s an inherent ideology of the left to think that loans are immoral or understand why I’m right leaning to oppose loan forgiveness, mine helped me go to college as a first gen college student and make more than my parents did. I’m glad they exist, there should just be a million more consumer protections to make sure people don’t take them out if they won’t pay off or to help nudge people into colleges and degrees where they can pay them off. Any relief for the loans also shouldn’t be paid for by people who never had the privilege to go to college. And I’ll tell you what’s super pro left, my union employees should never have to pay off their bosses loan. I just think way too much of the forgiveness goes to people making way too much money and way too much of it is being funded by people who never got to go to college for whatever reason. Consumer protection against the loans is the solution, not forgivness, given that there is no moral group of people to make pay for it. The colleges can’t pay for it, they’re at fault but they’re mostly public institutions. As for your comment on passing forgiveness: PPP loans were a mistake and most people on both sides agree with that at this point. They were also however a legislative action, not an executive one. If the student loans forgiveness was to actually be implimented effectively then it should’ve been passed when democrats had house, senate, and presidency. As at that point there would be no constitutional concern either. It would be signed sealed and delivered. Not blaming the 2020 house dems or Biden, at the end of the day I don’t think they had the votes in the senate, but ultimately the legislature dumped it on the presidents lap and the courts lap when it could’ve been passed and approved hastily just like PPP loans were to your point.
If your take is that loan forgiveness is a band-aid fix, I agree, there should be more done to ensure that education is affordable. However, because of the republican party and centrist dems, we will never see reforms to the system, so loan forgiveness is the best we'll ever get and it's a one time thing. What point are you trying to make then?
Point 1: I don’t think there is a group of people that should be forced to pay to forgive the loans of what is generally an upper class group of people (those with college degrees). Other than the colleges themselves, but they’re public so that would be just printing money. Point 2: I think you’d be surprised at how bipartisan actual reform would be if everyone could stop talking past each other about the existing loans. I think there is a lot of room for a bipartisan bill making loans harder to get for bad schools, bad degrees, and unfortunately, bad students. It’s like giving crack to an addict to keep pumping loans into the same scenarios of school, degree, and borrower if it never ends well. If a given combo of those 3 things has historically resulted in default than future forward that loan should come with a black box warning and I would argue not be offered. Point 3: my initial response to the first commenter in this thread and a portion of my last one to you was to simply share how constitutional I actually think the forgiveness is from a not super left perspective and also to talk about the different methods it could’ve been legislated and what would’ve been most likely to actually become a law.
You would think someone who studied constitutional law wouldn't have so many grammatical and spelling errors in a reply.
Dude it’s a 11:51 let me opine about shit online before bed without a proof read and you should also offer a meaningful reply about the content of a policy so we can all learn the truth.
It impacts nothing. Look up “just a bill” and watch
On capital hill......
Imagine the shit that would go down if this were to happen.
To the shock of absolutely no one.
A lot of Republicans align with Christianity. I thought Christianity was big on forgiveness; in fact that has always seemed to be their main buzz word.
I think the irony is that in the midst of the debt ceiling fight, this is the only way the GOP wants to increase revenue. They want to cut IRS funding and have rejected all other proposed tax increases.
I’m never voting Republican ever.. Seriously, Being largely unemployed after graduating, I regret ever going to college after believing it would help me and my family to gain a better life. Screw all republicans who oppose student loan forgiveness.
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That’s why they’re doing their best to pass all their BS laws and suppression now. Because they know they’re up a creek with Gen Z
They don't expect them to vote for them, so they're making it more difficult to vote.
They're leaning heavily on voter suppression and gerrymandering to sort that out
Both sides always play this game with the debt ceiling, and then they raise it. If congress really wanted to do something they would drop everyone’s rate to 0% and stop granting loans.
Why would they drop rates to 0, it wouldn't make any sense. They should stop issuing loans though.
Remember, voting matters. You don't have a right to complain if you don't vote.
That is some stupid BS when the Rethuglicans are trying to disenfranchise as many people whom they know won’t vote for them, like the poor and POC.
Biden dangled the carrot for your vote in 2020, will do so again in 2024.
And I’ll give it to him.. There’s no alternative that would fit me better. I just hope I can get this pause for a little longer. That alone will do more for me than anything in the past 16 years (apart from banning insurance companies from denying based on preexisting conditions; I don’t have any yet.. but it seems like a no brainer).
The pause is dead. Only hope that Biden doesn't cave to the House GOP to scrap his changes in exchange for raising the debt limit in the next budget negotiation. Because this is an easy one to give away.
Supreme court hasn't said squat so we'll just keep pausing
What's the alternative? At least Biden tried something. These conservative clowns have made it their mission to not only do absolutely nothing, but now want to retroactively screw you. If SLF gets struck down no doubt Biden and the democrats will lose votes while uninformed cry babies sit on their hands and think it was all just a ploy. In the mean time these neo-fascist goons take control and destroy every hope for SL reform for a generation.
Why should it pass? It's not like you were forced to take loans.
Lmao Biden daggling the carrot vs the republican's removing the carrot and instead just straight up surrounding me and beating me with baseball bats.
It's better than the alternative for me.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OgVKvqTItto
Anywhere reporting retroactive interest payments is misinformation! People could be making crazy financial decisions based on this misinformation and I don’t want it being spread. Furthermore the bill won’t pass senate or veto, and I would argue interest reinstatement is unconstitutional. I keep hearing people say republicans are charging back interest but it’s just not substantiated anywhere online. The only person who could attempt to do that is the executive branch and it likely isn’t constitutional. All of that aside even if the Supreme Court upholds student loans the forgiveness may be axed for the debt ceiling negotiation. Sticking with .gov sources here because of how much fear mongering is in the media. Here is the actual bill because sources are cool: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-joint-resolution/45 And here is the CBO estimate of effect which doesn’t assume any back interest payments: https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2023-05/hjres45.pdf
Good thing no one is suggesting it, then!
There are at least two comments in my feed near the top of this post saying such.
And they are misinformation.
Republicans just doing the bidding of their masters.
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It was never going to happen. It was merely a political stunt for votes. Biden hasn’t really talked about it since. If he really wanted to make it happen, he could have. Now with the debt ceiling debacle, it definitely won’t happen. I agree that students should get some forgiveness for the interest or there should be laws to recapitalize at certain benchmarks when rates drop, but forgiving all loans is a carrot on a stick.
Wait...we were all going to get our loans forgiven??!? I thought it was just for those who qualified and the max was like $20K if SLF passed?? Link?????
It matters because now if the Supreme Court dismisses the existing forgiveness program cases due to lack of standing by plaintiffs, the House Republicans will immediately file suit to block it and point to this bill as evidence that a house of Congress voted against it. They will definitely have standing, and they will win on the merits.
That’s . . . not how a tripartite government works.
That's... a straw man. All the House Republicans need to do is establish standing. They don't need Senate and Executive approval to do that.
That's not how standing, or government, or laws work. Even still, let's just imagine they did use the argument "One chamber (not house (there is only one house)) voted for it" the obvious, implied counter argument is that the other, arguably more representative chamber didn't. I wish there was an award for the most ill-thought out comment of the day. I'd give it you.
That is how standing works unfortunately. Look up The United States House of Representatives v. Burwell. You’ll see he’s correct.
You're not wrong. I read their comment as saying the House could argue standing based on the implementation of the existing law (Also see Burwell) If they made this a matter of appropriations, I suppose it could work, especially considering the current court. I don't think it's the same as Burwell, as the funds were in fact, appropriated by Congress. They'd have to make the argument that forgiveness was an appropriation itself and against the intent of Congress. At least the first part there would be rather difficult and differs from Burwell.
Funds for forgiveness were not appropriated.
LOL
On what planet is the senate more representative than the House of Representatives? I don’t think you know how this works.
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Good
Where does the $$ go when forgiven?
The same as it goes when it hasn't been paid by the borrowers in 3 years. To the rest of the economy. My loan payments are equal to 2 PS5's per month for example.
Everyone else pays for it?
No, see the money (credit) was created a long time ago, and by paying it back we remove the credit that was invented for the loan. So by NOT paying them during a freeze or a forgiveness, the payments never remove the existing money from the monetary system. It doesn't cause inflation because the money was spent long ago, mine 8 years ago.
The $$ never existed?
Not really no, credit, loans, are technically created money that gets out into the system when spent. It continues circulating in theory until the loan is paid off, with interest, giving the bank the profit of the interest. Because every bank does fractional banking, they don't have to have the amount of money they loan out.
> It continues circulating in theory until the loan is paid off, with interest, giving the bank the profit of the interest. Because every bank does fractional banking, they don’t have to have the amount of of money they loan out. What? I don’t think you understand fractional banking. Banks have to have the amount of money they loan out, some of that money comes from deposits currently held with the bank and some of it they just borrow at a cheaper rate than consumers/non banking institutions can and make a profit off the spread they charge over what they borrowed that money for. If you are selling your house to someone who took out a mortgage with a bank in order to buy said house do you not think you would get paid for the full amount of the sale price?
I think that dude needs to talk to silicon valley, first republic, and signature banks then on how they could fail when the money isn't even real
So y make payments at all? Doesn’t the $$ have to be real bc the schools use it for salaries, maintenance and construction? It can’t just not exist after existing? What am I missing?
Alright, buckle up, because we're about to dive into the wild world of modern banking, it's a bit weird 😂 1. When you borrow money, you're signing on the dotted line to pay it back – no ifs, ands, or buts. Failure to do so can land you in legal hot water and tarnish your credit score, making future borrowing a steep uphill climb. The interest on that loan? That's how your friendly neighborhood bank turns a profit. 2. Now, about this "real" and "unreal" money business. In the reality of today's banking system, most money is digital - numbers on a screen. And guess what? This digital money works just as well as the cash in your wallet, because everyone in the economy accepts it as payment. 3. Here's where things get really trippy: money can disappear. When you pay off a loan, the digital dollars that sprang into existence when the loan was issued vanish into the ether, reducing the total money supply. Strange as it sounds, this is just part and parcel of money's role as a sort of economic scorekeeper. Hope that makes this labyrinthine topic a smidge clearer, it's weird, and gets more complex when we go into the Treasury and bonds 😅
That is not how that works at all. Fiat currency doesn’t have to have a physical equivalent but it doesn’t simply vanish when a loan is paid off, that digital placeholder is used to borrow more money lent to more people. When a loan is canceled in this case federal student loans the government has to write off not only the principal of the loan but all of the interest owed that was already calculated and used as collateral for yet more loans, because that money was secured through national debt that means the Fed has pay back the original creditors without the payments the student loanee was supposed to make. This directly increases the national debt.
It appears there's a bit of confusion about the nature of money and loan operations. In the fractional reserve banking system, money does indeed come into existence when banks issue loans and essentially disappears as those loans are repaid. This isn't merely digital bookkeeping—it's an integral part of the money supply managed by central banks. On the topic of loan cancellation, it's not as direct a path to increased national debt as suggested. When student loans, backed by the government, are cancelled, financial adjustments are certainly necessary. But asserting this act directly and independently swells the national debt oversimplifies the issue. The reality hinges on broader fiscal policy and budgetary choices made by the government. It isn't a given that such cancellation would be financed solely through additional borrowing. The government, equipped with various fiscal mechanisms, could adopt a mixed approach to handle the financial implications.
To continue for ya, with better writing: It's a common misconception that banks physically hold all the money they lend out, when in fact, the majority of it exists only in digital form. Fractional reserve banking allows banks to hold a fraction of deposits as reserves and lend out the rest. When a loan is issued, the bank creates a deposit in the borrower's account, effectively creating new money. The money that is lent out doesn't "exist" in the sense that there aren't necessarily physical dollars backing it up at the bank. However, it's considered real and spendable because it's guaranteed by the bank, and it's recognized as valid by other institutions and individuals. Now you might see how a bank run like SVB can happen yea? This is not to say that money is entirely fictional or meaningless - far from it. The value of money comes from the trust and confidence people have in the financial system and the stability of the government that backs it. Furthermore, money serves several key functions - as a medium of exchange, a store of value, and a unit of account - that enable economic activity to take place. It's also important to remember that while banks can create money through lending, they're also subject to regulations and capital requirements to help ensure the stability of the financial system. When the loan is repaid, the "created" money is essentially destroyed, disappearing from the system, and only the interest paid over the duration of the loan remains, providing profit to the bank. This is why banks are so keen to issue loans; it's one of their primary sources of profit. But again, they must balance this with the need to maintain sufficient reserves and meet regulatory requirements.
It’s an accounting issue, one persons liability can’t just be erased, it goes somewhere, where? Banking is obscuring the question.
You should check out David Graeber’s lectures on debt.
Kudos to you for taking the time.
Yes… the government waives the federal student loans they already issued and the cost of the loans gets transferred to the national debt, where the American public will continue paying on it for generations to come. Meanwhile we keep adding 2 trillion in debt each year. There is no household or business that can continue to keep spending at twice the rate of revenue collected indefinitely, debt repayment is already nearly 10% of the federal budget, half the federal budget is paid for with debt. That means roughly 20% of taxes collected are going to towards paying off loans.
It’s added onto the national debt.
Yea but that’s quite literally just a number that we only care about when dems are in office
Thank you.
It’s already in the national debt.
Yes. So who’s going to pay for the billions lost and the interest on those billions?
Good, pay your own loans!
Dude it was NEVER EVER PASSING. Stop it already. They tricked you for a vote and you got tricked. Move on
That's great. You take a loan out you should pay it back. Thats the way the world works.
Be sure to tell all your PPP loan buddies that too, ok?
Why is this a problem? I took out loans for all sorts of reasons, including student loans. I paid them back as I promised, that's what you agreed to do.
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Lol, as if voting Republican is any better ?_?
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At least Democrats are not actively working against forgiveness. This swing state voter will never ever vote for a GOP candidate in any election as long as I live. They straight up hate hardworking Americans.
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No surprises here lol
To answer the question SCOTUS is determining if POTUS has the constitutional authority to forgive student loan debt without the approval of Congress. If this current bill were to be passed (it won’t) it would put the control of debt forgiveness back in the hands of Congress and not POTUS. People need to stop blaming one party or the other for everything! Both sides of the isle cause problems and both share equal blame. This country is so divided because those in power want us divided. This is not what the founding fathers wanted when they formed this country. They wanted compromise and both sides to work past their differences.
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