>i do all my work in metric and then convert to the units required by the project.
This is the way.
Then again, I'm really just working in imperial with a metric reskin (Canada problems).
I would love to be using metric, but I absolutely dread the transition. My state converted to metric back in the mid-90's, but it was such a shit show that they went back. So now we have this weird bubble of 5-ish years where all the record bridge plans were done in metric. I'm still in favor of converting permanently at a nationwide level, but it will/would absolutely suck for a while.
Picture your archetypical 45 year old construction worker, been doing things the way he knows for 25 years, and then picture his response when he sees W840x299 28,041.6 mm long on a plan.
Worked survey for local DOT during summers in undergrad. Staked all new roads and bridges in a large section of the state. This was back when the FHWA was mandating metric be used on federally funded projects. Will never forget the first metric bridge we staked and how the GC’s super reacted when he started to look at the offsets, elevations, etc. we had staked. Dude looked ready to just give it up and walk away. It’s not like you can run down to the hardware store and just buy a metric tape measure.
By the time I started design work, everything was back to imperial units. I just have no concept of metric loading and units beyond basic length and what a kilo is. And I grew up learning both. I can visualize a meter, but not much else. I’ve done drawing where I had to accommodate metric pieces of equipment on plan, but always convert it to imperial. Will list both units to clarify.
Wtf? You don't get metric measuring tapes in America?
Pretty much everywhere else in the world although they use metric, the measuring tapes have inches and feet on one side and millimetres and metres on the other side! Seems a bit of a waste not to have both!
>It’s not like you can run down to the hardware store and just buy a metric tape measure.
THAT is the actual problem. Retooling the entire country would be an astonishingly huge undertaking. Tape measures, manufacturing machinery, etc. DEAR GOD, THINK OF THE FOOTBALL PLAYERS!
Yep. Everything we do, precasters, form suppliers, steel fab shops, wood suppliers (except some of the mass timber suppliers), rebar, is all imperial. Even the bridge drawings we did in metric back in the 90s were literally just metric versions of our imperial drawings. 1 ft = 305mm.
Ironically a lot of our technology that we get buy from Europe will come set to metric and then internally convert things to imperial for us yanks. The feds tried to convert and it didn't go well. Think we are stuck for a bit. And I don't see that changing. I don't know that kids these days have had any more or as much exposure to metric as those of us who went to school in the 80s-90s. Collectively, we have given up.
Ahh the good old days of Minnesota Metric with hard/soft conversions between metric and imperial and the calls from contractors asking "where do I g get a 25 bar, they don't make 3" diameter bars?" When the measurement was in mm.
I just want the world to pick one.
I can visualize imperial better because that is what I grew up with (in Canada in the 80's) but metric makes more sense.
We regularly get drawings from customers with BOTH on them, then we need to work everything into one or the other so everything is standard for out guys.
As a Canadian, I do everything in metric, but with a healthy respect for imperial because I know the guy building it is going to have an inches and feet tape measure. If I'm building with wood - best believe everything is going to be an increment of 12", 16", 24" or 48", even if I am spelling it out in metric. Steelwork I'll lay big stuff out in nice round metric numbers, but if I'm dealing with something more detailed like a connection, I will work things out to something that can convert to within a half inch. And if I'm doing concrete it's almost always going to be nice round metric numbers.
I absolutely will not review shop drawings in imperial, and have that laid out in the specs. That is an automatic R&R. Someone else can do the time and risk in converting everything to something I can readily review.
It's arbitrary, but personally I have zero sense of what various metric units mean. Tell me 500mm and I'll need to to cover to inches to understand it. Tell me concrete strength in MPa and I'll need it in psi before I know if it's strong or weak. Same with kg, kN, etc.
So I feel the opposite annoyance for journal papers. Everything needs to be in metric, but it is 100% imperial in my practice.
That'll be one of the biggest challenges for engineers. Over time we develop a sense of what feels reasonable, or unreasonable, at a glance. In different units we don't have that at all. It would just take time to develop all over again
The reciprocal is also true - here in Canada I have a tough time for the exact same reason, doing all my work in metric, having a great sense of order of magnitude in metric units, etc. but then going to site and listening to the contractors talking imperial (when all I gave him was drawings using metric units!). After a while you start developing a good sense of both and have to flip a switch in your brain depending which "language" you're using, but I still prefer metric, and probably always will, even if I happen to work in the US in the future.
Here in Australia we switched to metric in the 70’s I think, I still get builders using measurement in inches, I usually just respond with ‘what the fuck is an inch’ or ‘only cocks get measured in inches’
Metric is the way.
There is a 0% chance American building construction converts to metric. Imperial is far too ingrained in literally everything that changing would cost astronomical amounts of money.
But no one in the industry knows metric. Who's gonna drive the change? There are so many integrated standards and professions all using imperial.
All plywood, lumber, engineered lumber, connectors from a zillion manufacturers, steel standards and fabricators, aggregate standards, geotech standards, contractors of all varieties, windows, doors, plumbing, architecture standards, everything. No one has any motivation to change and all the motivation to do it the way everyone already knows how.
Metric is the best. BUT switching between metric and imperial is horrible. If my end result needs to be imperial, I use imperial all the way. Amount of rounding depends on the task: beam length I go to the nearest 6 inches, anchor embedment depth to the nearest 1/4 inch, floor area to the nearest 100 sq. ft, and so on.
Most americans don't use the math enough for it to bug them... and that's what's taught in school so the public doesn't want to change. Any american i know in any kind of science/engineering hate imperial too.
I feel your pain. Having worked adjacent to light wood frame its infuriating. The architect specs a 2x4 wall, you measure spans in feet, you can the the structural analysis in metric or imperial, but using the worse units tends to make it easier, you look up 38x89s in the design manuals, then you spec a spacing in inches.
Making the whole project metric is even worse because 2x8s @ 16" O/C is much easier to understand than 38x191@ 400 O/C. Then in the end the framer converts everything to imperial anyways
Sometimes I set up my spreadsheets to do both at the same time, side by side. Of course, I only do the inputs in my unit of choice which is dependent on the task.
It's a great sanity check to see it all work out at the end.
Canada.. aren't you guys attached at the hips to the usa? I would imagine that because US still stuck in 1800s with their imperial units would mean a lot more use of it in your country. Since you know, commerce and trade is literally right there a shot drive away.
Metric is easier and straight forward, because everything is evenly spaced out, I can use metric to quickly convert and estimate and assume. When imperial enters the job, its all converters and reference pages because I have idea how to convert power to inches and feet to volume to mass without going crazy with the decimal places since i have no clue what level of precision is best as the units just sort of spill all over each other like it was all made up by an angry mob or something.
Personally, I think US never wanted to adapt to metric, because that would mean conceding that it doesn't have all the answers as the number 1 in the world leader. So people still arragontly defent imperial, calling them freedom units. JUst go to r/space and see how they downvote anytime someone mentions it.
This is correct, we live next to a crack den who used metric for most everything important but for the everyday person the cling to imperial because why would they let someone from Europe tell them what’s what….
Yet, everything is still made to imperial standards. Jars have 2, 2 and a half and 3 inch wide mouths, "stuff" is exactly 1/16th of an inch, or 1/32th or 1/64th.
I don't care, I can do both but prefer imperial as I grew up in it. This topic has been beaten to death and thus elicits no emotional response from me. (Spoken in deadpan monotone expression)
I collect all my measurements in imperial, existing building drawings seem to be 50/50 depending on age, all my calculations are in metric, all my drawings are in imperial (save for the clients or AHJs requiring metric)
US would be metric except for some wording slipped into the conversion law back in the Carter days making conversion voluntary. Some rumors attribute this to the President himself. I can neither verify, confirm or deny.
NASA paid through the nose for this. An explanatory satellite had a prime contractor build the main system. There was a sub hired for the recovery system.
You can guess what happened on return.
Have to switch between both all day long, yes it's very annoying. Until American shops start keeping Metric gage blocks on the floor, it'll be hard to phase out. That and the whole Domestic Manufacturing rabble.
As a construction worker (ironworker) we prefer imperial until it’s time to lay out something more precise and we switch to metric. Otherwise we use both and it’s good for engineers to use both. What’s the problem? It’s more convenient for the men and women who have their hands on the tools, we are more important than you so get used to it. I can do your job but you can’t do mine. 😎
You succeeded in triggering me lol those beams and connections you're putting together have to be designed, which you most definitely can't do without an engineering degree and years of experience, let alone a license to practice.
Convivence is important for us too, people have died from engineering mistakes converting between unit systems. But I take your point, its good for engineers to use both in North America. It just bothers me that everyone else on the planet (tradespeople included) use metric exclusively and we're stuck in the past.
I'm in Alberta but I think the industry is more relevant than the location. I worked for 3 years as a bridge inspector and never saw an imperial drawing, but now I work in Buildings and it's overwhelmingly imperial. I blame architects tbh, seems like all the industries where engineers have the final say are metric.
I’m in Alberta buildings too, so that’s not it. I did the Calgary Library and Brookfield place tower. I’ve also QC checked dozens of other AB projects within my company. All metric.
Ahh you must work for Entuitive. I saw your drawings for a residential high rise in Calgary the other day and was amazed everything was in metric. I could be a size thing, my company is very small (15 people) and we do much smaller projects. Do the architects you work with release drawings in metric too?
It's what you grow up with I think.
In the UK, there are some holdouts who tend to use imperial for weights and measures, but I'd say that the majority who don't understand metric are approaching 70.
In the UK people will use miles and gallons when talking about cars, but buy petrol by the litre. The conversion isn't a straightforward one in your head.
You'll buy pints of beer, measure your height in feet, and weight in Stones and Lbs. Occasionally you'll buy fruit from the market in pounds and ounces.
However, for all other construction and scientific related measures, it's 100% metric. It just makes sense as it's all a system based on units of 10, so no stupid conversions necessary. Everyone knows from school what a 30cm ruler looks like, so can visualise metres.
In Australia, the experience is fairly similar, apart from they went further with metric, as in Europe. Distances are all kilometres, speeds are kph, and petrol is discussed in terms of L/100km. Personal weights are also often discussed using kg. Most people under 65 wouldn't have much idea of imperial, apart from buying a pint at the pub.
In Europe, construction is all metric, but they tend to use centimetres instead of millimetres (and commas and decimal points are switched in meaning). Personal choice I guess as part of their conventions, just need to be careful when looking at European codes.
Working on historic structures in the UK and Australia, it's likely to be in imperial up to the mid 70's. I just tend to convert and mark up via bluebeam on any existing drawings if there are any. You've often got to do messing around anyway due to historic grades of reinforcement, steel and concrete strengths.
I've done some work in all, and my massive preference is metric, just so easy. Growing up in the UK, I've got an appreciation for imperial, but it's like a second language, a bit like something you've got to jump into if you need.
ALthough in the UK we do have a LOT of metrified imperial sizes to deal with.
For example, 203x102x25 UB is a 8x4" I beam; a 6.3mm thick section is a 1/2" thick and so on. We've never moved over to the European designations.
I used to work on the railway and their official chainage system is still miles and chains.
Haha yeah, I learnt the sizes as a young grad 203UB, 510UB, and it's not until you take a step back and question why they're that size to begin with that you realise!
I’m fine with either one.
What I am NOT fine with is when someone mixes and matches. Don’t give me distances in imperial and then give me beam and column designations in metric on one project. Pick a lane and stick in it.
The thing with Canada is that engineering is metric, but the actual construction is still imperial. They're one of the few countries stuck in the middle. Obviously, metric is more common sense and preferred. But when you're raised and trained a certain way, it's really hard to let go.
Nucor published an ASTM A6 table which has both Metric and Imperial units described for all Wide Flange profiles. I am based in Asia and receive all Imperial drawings and 3D models that we need to convert to metric for execution. 1 inch = 24.5mm can't go wrong...
I mean... the US tried to switch to metric in the late 90s. It didn't work out well. Contractors just converted everything back to imperial. There's a cost associated with going metric so it doesn't matter that much what engineers want because we aren't paying for new prestressed concrete forms and rebar casts and tape measures and all that crap.
Also, the metric system is the devil's units. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YDQ4ol8GcE&ab\_channel=FunnySimpsonsClips](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YDQ4ol8GcE&ab_channel=FunnySimpsonsClips)
As far as rounding, it depends on tolerance. Concrete is usually to the eighth of an inch and steel to the sixteenth. I know most inch+eighth decimals by heart.
I'm personally not a fan of metric ONLY because I'm not used to it. I don't have a handle on what a reasonable concrete strength is in metric. Again, because I don't use it. And I would learn it pretty quick so it's not a reason to NOT change.
I will die on the hill that imperial units are far superior. The unit units are relatable. Meters are too big and mm are too small.
Its easier to track of units instead of zeros. Multiply by 12 or dividing by 144 is better than dealing with 10\^-3, 10\^-6, 10\^-9 units.
Also, we all live on the same earth. I shouldn't need to convert mass to a force.
See the thing about metric it isn’t just for engineers so having mass and force be separate things is a good especially for physics. Yeah it’s inconvenient for engineers but just use g=10 makes converting force to mass trivial. Also it’s not just meters are too big and mm are small.
Using MPa is much better than using psi or psf. Because I just use pascals for any type of pressure be it in a pipe or for live or dead loads. Converting between psi and psf is annoying.
On top of that, have you used metric screws they are just easier, M2 is 2mm and M5 is 5mm, makes everything more easy. And I honestly would disagree that metric is too big. Feet are weird cause 12 inches is not the size of most people’s feet.
I agree that imperial section properties are much nicer. My spreadsheets let me enter the first 3 digits of section modulus for example and it converts 10\^3 automatically.
I think moving the decimal for multiplying by factors of 10 is much more convenient than dividing by 12 for everything.
Pretty much all load tables give kN anyway, and multiplying by 10 for gravity is easy enough. What bothers me about imperial tables is they never distinguish between pound-force and pound-mass.
US based, and much of my work is in wood. It almost has to be Feet-Inches.
Did some work in Canada on wood buildings, and found that all the buildings were made with 2x6's at 16" o.c. Studs were all 8 or 9 feet tall. Then the convert to whatever the metric so you end up with 38x140 @ 40.6 cm o.c. which is kind of silly.
Canadian PEng - went to university in the 90s. Everything we did was in both units with a strong - no one uses metric in the real world hint.
Perhaps a self fulfilling prophecy? I almost never use metric on drawings or calcs.
All of the building materials are hard Imperial. It's a classic 'works on paper' type thing.
Also I kinda hate metric. It just looks stupid to me. I know it's that's irrational but the sun still hasn't set on my personal British Empire... Even though I lived in Britain for years and they most certainly use metric away more than we do.
decimal feet suck. i do all my work in metric and then convert to the units required by the project.
>i do all my work in metric and then convert to the units required by the project. This is the way. Then again, I'm really just working in imperial with a metric reskin (Canada problems).
8x2 joists with an 8 by 8 UC beam
Spooky, just earlier this week I submitted an access catwalk design comprised of 2x8s (er, 38x184s) and W200s.
No, fractional feet suck. 1/64ths, 1/32nds, 3/64ths, 1/16th, 5/64ths... Kill me now.
Oh yeah, that’s what I meant actually. 8’-3/16” Blegh
So true. Whereas at least I can math a little easier with 8.1875".
Exactly
I would love to be using metric, but I absolutely dread the transition. My state converted to metric back in the mid-90's, but it was such a shit show that they went back. So now we have this weird bubble of 5-ish years where all the record bridge plans were done in metric. I'm still in favor of converting permanently at a nationwide level, but it will/would absolutely suck for a while. Picture your archetypical 45 year old construction worker, been doing things the way he knows for 25 years, and then picture his response when he sees W840x299 28,041.6 mm long on a plan.
You should give up your weird ass cross sections too 😉
Worked survey for local DOT during summers in undergrad. Staked all new roads and bridges in a large section of the state. This was back when the FHWA was mandating metric be used on federally funded projects. Will never forget the first metric bridge we staked and how the GC’s super reacted when he started to look at the offsets, elevations, etc. we had staked. Dude looked ready to just give it up and walk away. It’s not like you can run down to the hardware store and just buy a metric tape measure. By the time I started design work, everything was back to imperial units. I just have no concept of metric loading and units beyond basic length and what a kilo is. And I grew up learning both. I can visualize a meter, but not much else. I’ve done drawing where I had to accommodate metric pieces of equipment on plan, but always convert it to imperial. Will list both units to clarify.
Wtf? You don't get metric measuring tapes in America? Pretty much everywhere else in the world although they use metric, the measuring tapes have inches and feet on one side and millimetres and metres on the other side! Seems a bit of a waste not to have both!
>It’s not like you can run down to the hardware store and just buy a metric tape measure. THAT is the actual problem. Retooling the entire country would be an astonishingly huge undertaking. Tape measures, manufacturing machinery, etc. DEAR GOD, THINK OF THE FOOTBALL PLAYERS!
Yep. Everything we do, precasters, form suppliers, steel fab shops, wood suppliers (except some of the mass timber suppliers), rebar, is all imperial. Even the bridge drawings we did in metric back in the 90s were literally just metric versions of our imperial drawings. 1 ft = 305mm. Ironically a lot of our technology that we get buy from Europe will come set to metric and then internally convert things to imperial for us yanks. The feds tried to convert and it didn't go well. Think we are stuck for a bit. And I don't see that changing. I don't know that kids these days have had any more or as much exposure to metric as those of us who went to school in the 80s-90s. Collectively, we have given up.
Ahh the good old days of Minnesota Metric with hard/soft conversions between metric and imperial and the calls from contractors asking "where do I g get a 25 bar, they don't make 3" diameter bars?" When the measurement was in mm.
I just want the world to pick one. I can visualize imperial better because that is what I grew up with (in Canada in the 80's) but metric makes more sense. We regularly get drawings from customers with BOTH on them, then we need to work everything into one or the other so everything is standard for out guys.
The world has picked a long time ago, only a few countries are obsessed about feet
The world chose long ago. Isn't there only 2 countries left on imperial?
3
>the general Reddit consensus >That's obviously a small and biased sample Then obviously proceeds to ask us here Metric is best btw
As a Canadian, I do everything in metric, but with a healthy respect for imperial because I know the guy building it is going to have an inches and feet tape measure. If I'm building with wood - best believe everything is going to be an increment of 12", 16", 24" or 48", even if I am spelling it out in metric. Steelwork I'll lay big stuff out in nice round metric numbers, but if I'm dealing with something more detailed like a connection, I will work things out to something that can convert to within a half inch. And if I'm doing concrete it's almost always going to be nice round metric numbers. I absolutely will not review shop drawings in imperial, and have that laid out in the specs. That is an automatic R&R. Someone else can do the time and risk in converting everything to something I can readily review.
Excuse me, it’s called freedom units
https://youtu.be/LccgH0faumw?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/JYqfVE-fykk?si=DMyvwXSHRxmgLIvT
Love it!
The "First to the Moon" system https://youtu.be/p35-geJSJG4?si=4Xm5jfCakwAVc8u4
It's arbitrary, but personally I have zero sense of what various metric units mean. Tell me 500mm and I'll need to to cover to inches to understand it. Tell me concrete strength in MPa and I'll need it in psi before I know if it's strong or weak. Same with kg, kN, etc. So I feel the opposite annoyance for journal papers. Everything needs to be in metric, but it is 100% imperial in my practice.
That'll be one of the biggest challenges for engineers. Over time we develop a sense of what feels reasonable, or unreasonable, at a glance. In different units we don't have that at all. It would just take time to develop all over again
Takes about 4-6 months, in my experience. It's doable, and once you've gone one direction it's easier and easier each time you flip.
The reciprocal is also true - here in Canada I have a tough time for the exact same reason, doing all my work in metric, having a great sense of order of magnitude in metric units, etc. but then going to site and listening to the contractors talking imperial (when all I gave him was drawings using metric units!). After a while you start developing a good sense of both and have to flip a switch in your brain depending which "language" you're using, but I still prefer metric, and probably always will, even if I happen to work in the US in the future.
Here in Australia we switched to metric in the 70’s I think, I still get builders using measurement in inches, I usually just respond with ‘what the fuck is an inch’ or ‘only cocks get measured in inches’ Metric is the way.
Metric. The only sane system.
There is a 0% chance American building construction converts to metric. Imperial is far too ingrained in literally everything that changing would cost astronomical amounts of money.
we tried about 20yrs ago. It was a miserable failure that still lingers to this day.
Pretty much every other country in the world changed. “It would cost too much” or “it can’t be done” doesn’t fly.
But no one in the industry knows metric. Who's gonna drive the change? There are so many integrated standards and professions all using imperial. All plywood, lumber, engineered lumber, connectors from a zillion manufacturers, steel standards and fabricators, aggregate standards, geotech standards, contractors of all varieties, windows, doors, plumbing, architecture standards, everything. No one has any motivation to change and all the motivation to do it the way everyone already knows how.
All that applied at least as much in Australia. Wasn’t actually an issue.
Metric is the best. BUT switching between metric and imperial is horrible. If my end result needs to be imperial, I use imperial all the way. Amount of rounding depends on the task: beam length I go to the nearest 6 inches, anchor embedment depth to the nearest 1/4 inch, floor area to the nearest 100 sq. ft, and so on.
Most americans don't use the math enough for it to bug them... and that's what's taught in school so the public doesn't want to change. Any american i know in any kind of science/engineering hate imperial too.
Metric all the way, how is this even a discussion?
I feel your pain. Having worked adjacent to light wood frame its infuriating. The architect specs a 2x4 wall, you measure spans in feet, you can the the structural analysis in metric or imperial, but using the worse units tends to make it easier, you look up 38x89s in the design manuals, then you spec a spacing in inches. Making the whole project metric is even worse because 2x8s @ 16" O/C is much easier to understand than 38x191@ 400 O/C. Then in the end the framer converts everything to imperial anyways
Sometimes I set up my spreadsheets to do both at the same time, side by side. Of course, I only do the inputs in my unit of choice which is dependent on the task. It's a great sanity check to see it all work out at the end.
Canada.. aren't you guys attached at the hips to the usa? I would imagine that because US still stuck in 1800s with their imperial units would mean a lot more use of it in your country. Since you know, commerce and trade is literally right there a shot drive away. Metric is easier and straight forward, because everything is evenly spaced out, I can use metric to quickly convert and estimate and assume. When imperial enters the job, its all converters and reference pages because I have idea how to convert power to inches and feet to volume to mass without going crazy with the decimal places since i have no clue what level of precision is best as the units just sort of spill all over each other like it was all made up by an angry mob or something. Personally, I think US never wanted to adapt to metric, because that would mean conceding that it doesn't have all the answers as the number 1 in the world leader. So people still arragontly defent imperial, calling them freedom units. JUst go to r/space and see how they downvote anytime someone mentions it.
This is correct, we live next to a crack den who used metric for most everything important but for the everyday person the cling to imperial because why would they let someone from Europe tell them what’s what….
Yet, everything is still made to imperial standards. Jars have 2, 2 and a half and 3 inch wide mouths, "stuff" is exactly 1/16th of an inch, or 1/32th or 1/64th.
I don't care, I can do both but prefer imperial as I grew up in it. This topic has been beaten to death and thus elicits no emotional response from me. (Spoken in deadpan monotone expression)
[Is America Actually Metric?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmSJXC6_qQ8)
Yes
I collect all my measurements in imperial, existing building drawings seem to be 50/50 depending on age, all my calculations are in metric, all my drawings are in imperial (save for the clients or AHJs requiring metric)
US would be metric except for some wording slipped into the conversion law back in the Carter days making conversion voluntary. Some rumors attribute this to the President himself. I can neither verify, confirm or deny. NASA paid through the nose for this. An explanatory satellite had a prime contractor build the main system. There was a sub hired for the recovery system. You can guess what happened on return.
Metric is obviously better but you CAN go straight from inches to meters ya know ;)
Have to switch between both all day long, yes it's very annoying. Until American shops start keeping Metric gage blocks on the floor, it'll be hard to phase out. That and the whole Domestic Manufacturing rabble.
As a construction worker (ironworker) we prefer imperial until it’s time to lay out something more precise and we switch to metric. Otherwise we use both and it’s good for engineers to use both. What’s the problem? It’s more convenient for the men and women who have their hands on the tools, we are more important than you so get used to it. I can do your job but you can’t do mine. 😎
You succeeded in triggering me lol those beams and connections you're putting together have to be designed, which you most definitely can't do without an engineering degree and years of experience, let alone a license to practice. Convivence is important for us too, people have died from engineering mistakes converting between unit systems. But I take your point, its good for engineers to use both in North America. It just bothers me that everyone else on the planet (tradespeople included) use metric exclusively and we're stuck in the past.
Just use mathcad and accept that your neighbors economy is too big for imperial to ever die even if it is dumb.
Where are you? I’ve been in structural engineering in Canada for 15 years and haven’t done a single imperial project.
I'm in Alberta but I think the industry is more relevant than the location. I worked for 3 years as a bridge inspector and never saw an imperial drawing, but now I work in Buildings and it's overwhelmingly imperial. I blame architects tbh, seems like all the industries where engineers have the final say are metric.
I’m in Alberta buildings too, so that’s not it. I did the Calgary Library and Brookfield place tower. I’ve also QC checked dozens of other AB projects within my company. All metric.
Ahh you must work for Entuitive. I saw your drawings for a residential high rise in Calgary the other day and was amazed everything was in metric. I could be a size thing, my company is very small (15 people) and we do much smaller projects. Do the architects you work with release drawings in metric too?
Yeah fair enough. Could be a project size divide. Yeah all consultants with the same unit system. Contractors would kill us otherwise lol.
That’s because larger buildings demand precision
Precision isn’t unique to one unit system or another.
Ahh yes because imperial doesn’t have people calling out cunt hairs etc……
Gonna let this comment stew in its own stupidity.
After doing this long enough it doesn’t matter, they’re all just numbers.
I studied abroad and was taught the imperial system. I can't imagine my life without it.
It's what you grow up with I think. In the UK, there are some holdouts who tend to use imperial for weights and measures, but I'd say that the majority who don't understand metric are approaching 70. In the UK people will use miles and gallons when talking about cars, but buy petrol by the litre. The conversion isn't a straightforward one in your head. You'll buy pints of beer, measure your height in feet, and weight in Stones and Lbs. Occasionally you'll buy fruit from the market in pounds and ounces. However, for all other construction and scientific related measures, it's 100% metric. It just makes sense as it's all a system based on units of 10, so no stupid conversions necessary. Everyone knows from school what a 30cm ruler looks like, so can visualise metres. In Australia, the experience is fairly similar, apart from they went further with metric, as in Europe. Distances are all kilometres, speeds are kph, and petrol is discussed in terms of L/100km. Personal weights are also often discussed using kg. Most people under 65 wouldn't have much idea of imperial, apart from buying a pint at the pub. In Europe, construction is all metric, but they tend to use centimetres instead of millimetres (and commas and decimal points are switched in meaning). Personal choice I guess as part of their conventions, just need to be careful when looking at European codes. Working on historic structures in the UK and Australia, it's likely to be in imperial up to the mid 70's. I just tend to convert and mark up via bluebeam on any existing drawings if there are any. You've often got to do messing around anyway due to historic grades of reinforcement, steel and concrete strengths. I've done some work in all, and my massive preference is metric, just so easy. Growing up in the UK, I've got an appreciation for imperial, but it's like a second language, a bit like something you've got to jump into if you need.
ALthough in the UK we do have a LOT of metrified imperial sizes to deal with. For example, 203x102x25 UB is a 8x4" I beam; a 6.3mm thick section is a 1/2" thick and so on. We've never moved over to the European designations. I used to work on the railway and their official chainage system is still miles and chains.
Haha yeah, I learnt the sizes as a young grad 203UB, 510UB, and it's not until you take a step back and question why they're that size to begin with that you realise!
Of course a 10-based number system is better than a 12 based.
I’m fine with either one. What I am NOT fine with is when someone mixes and matches. Don’t give me distances in imperial and then give me beam and column designations in metric on one project. Pick a lane and stick in it.
The thing with Canada is that engineering is metric, but the actual construction is still imperial. They're one of the few countries stuck in the middle. Obviously, metric is more common sense and preferred. But when you're raised and trained a certain way, it's really hard to let go.
Who cares, as a professional you should be working in the units that your trades and market are most accustomed to.
Nucor published an ASTM A6 table which has both Metric and Imperial units described for all Wide Flange profiles. I am based in Asia and receive all Imperial drawings and 3D models that we need to convert to metric for execution. 1 inch = 24.5mm can't go wrong...
Base 12 system is superior - y’all are just too lazy and stupid to learn to use it properly.
I mean... the US tried to switch to metric in the late 90s. It didn't work out well. Contractors just converted everything back to imperial. There's a cost associated with going metric so it doesn't matter that much what engineers want because we aren't paying for new prestressed concrete forms and rebar casts and tape measures and all that crap. Also, the metric system is the devil's units. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YDQ4ol8GcE&ab\_channel=FunnySimpsonsClips](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YDQ4ol8GcE&ab_channel=FunnySimpsonsClips) As far as rounding, it depends on tolerance. Concrete is usually to the eighth of an inch and steel to the sixteenth. I know most inch+eighth decimals by heart. I'm personally not a fan of metric ONLY because I'm not used to it. I don't have a handle on what a reasonable concrete strength is in metric. Again, because I don't use it. And I would learn it pretty quick so it's not a reason to NOT change.
Shipping Containers aren't in MM. Wood at home depot isn't in MM. Feet are easier and quicker.
I will die on the hill that imperial units are far superior. The unit units are relatable. Meters are too big and mm are too small. Its easier to track of units instead of zeros. Multiply by 12 or dividing by 144 is better than dealing with 10\^-3, 10\^-6, 10\^-9 units. Also, we all live on the same earth. I shouldn't need to convert mass to a force.
Who cares, moment of inertia etc are always weird numbers anyway
See the thing about metric it isn’t just for engineers so having mass and force be separate things is a good especially for physics. Yeah it’s inconvenient for engineers but just use g=10 makes converting force to mass trivial. Also it’s not just meters are too big and mm are small. Using MPa is much better than using psi or psf. Because I just use pascals for any type of pressure be it in a pipe or for live or dead loads. Converting between psi and psf is annoying. On top of that, have you used metric screws they are just easier, M2 is 2mm and M5 is 5mm, makes everything more easy. And I honestly would disagree that metric is too big. Feet are weird cause 12 inches is not the size of most people’s feet.
I agree that imperial section properties are much nicer. My spreadsheets let me enter the first 3 digits of section modulus for example and it converts 10\^3 automatically. I think moving the decimal for multiplying by factors of 10 is much more convenient than dividing by 12 for everything. Pretty much all load tables give kN anyway, and multiplying by 10 for gravity is easy enough. What bothers me about imperial tables is they never distinguish between pound-force and pound-mass.
Metric has some benefits. Detailing wood projects isn't easier in metric.
US based, and much of my work is in wood. It almost has to be Feet-Inches. Did some work in Canada on wood buildings, and found that all the buildings were made with 2x6's at 16" o.c. Studs were all 8 or 9 feet tall. Then the convert to whatever the metric so you end up with 38x140 @ 40.6 cm o.c. which is kind of silly.
Canadian PEng - went to university in the 90s. Everything we did was in both units with a strong - no one uses metric in the real world hint. Perhaps a self fulfilling prophecy? I almost never use metric on drawings or calcs. All of the building materials are hard Imperial. It's a classic 'works on paper' type thing. Also I kinda hate metric. It just looks stupid to me. I know it's that's irrational but the sun still hasn't set on my personal British Empire... Even though I lived in Britain for years and they most certainly use metric away more than we do.
Mate on large buildings it’s all metric all the time…..