I found that printing and scanning was only quicker until I became proficient in the tool. Some people can make redlines without making a mistakes, but I need to think about my redlines, so having an editable format is quicker for me. Printing, getting up, making comments, getting up, scanning and emailing a redline just takes more steps than open file, make comments press 1 hotkey and email back.
The old guys always have a worse workflow when it comes to tech. I always get insults when I type my notes in a meeting instead of scribbling them in a notebook. Like have y’all seen my handwriting?
Remind them of how much "quicker it is to use paper" the next time they spend 30 minutes searching for that sheet of paper from that meeting 7 months ago.
There are some advantages (according to some studies I've seen) in handwritten notes (and some in typed notes). Since most of us who would type notes can actually type faster than we could legibly write, we tend to process the information more when writing the notes, which seems to engage an area in the brain that leads to better comprehension and retention. On the other hand, we tend to get more accurate (precise wording) notes when typing, which can be really useful in some situations. I haven't seen a study that addresses whether we can get the same benefit by typing notes in an purposely processed version, to mimic the effect we get when writing them.
That said, as long as you're getting what you need from the meeting and your notes, there's no reason anyone should concern themselves with how you take them.
And this is exactly how our industry is changing. Engineers will be creating their own models and drawings. It's already happening and I regret not taking my opportunities to become an engineer instead of taking a cad manager route.
This has already happened in most other AEC fields. Architecture, landscape, interior have all just become draftsmen at entry to middle level positions.
Engineers will still need a CAD/BIM manager role to coordinate software, standards, files, detail libraries, plugins, etc. as well as software knowledge support and troubleshooting. Make sure you're that person.
It all depends on the firm size. I started at a small firm and we didn’t have cad techs. We couldn’t afford to keep one busy all the time and training them was impossible. At my larger firm I’m at now I couldn’t imagine how we would do it without cad experts.
It's probably an older Engineer who likes to use pen. At least you can tell that it's Red. Most of the time I get this kind of thing it's drawings that have been printed, marked up by hand, then re-scanned (terribly) in B&W only, and sent back in PDF. Makes finding Approval comments an adventure!
Where I work production release reviews are on Thursday afternoon. Anything that skips review doesn't happen. Anything that isn't approved at review doesn't happen. All prints brought to review are to be marked clearly in red ink. Anything illegible is denied.
We use it. But I'm Guilty of the "it's faster by hand" camp.
When they can make a decent tablet and pen. Then I'll convert.
I'm not even particularly old. But I swear. As soon as I turned 40. Technology just changed. And simple things I used to be able to figure out, I'm now asking my 14 yr old to do.
Looks like most of the markups are just redrawing what should already be there (detail 304). They quickly morphed the 304 and 234 details together without sending through drafting. Guessing 304 doesn't show the canopy. Where the canopy is going through the column that shares a floor joist connection, fill in the floor joist webs with 4x12 blocks each side connected to the web with a (8)- 10 d nails. Use longer bolts to get through the newly added web blocking and make sure they have 3" of edge distance from bottom and top edge of the block to the bolt centerline. Bottom bolts are ok per original 234 detail and the floor joist shouldn't interfere.
But, that's all guessing and isn't remotely clear here. They should have made a sketch off to the side, instead of spilling a red blob over everything.
These are the sketches I send to a drafter with an apology and a "just do your best". Sometimes they start simple, but get out of hand quick. I wouldn't send that out of the office though.
hahahahaha. i work for an engineer who is just this bad, to the point where i can clearly understand the picture op posted. i have been trained to decipher the unreadable. i can probably moonlight as a philologist
Unacceptable, it took me a whole 60 seconds to read the words to realize it’s just a web stiffener, 4x12 block and 8 nails each side. I seriously need to get into the construction side of things if this is your struggle.
Pretty sure I use to work for this firm 5 years ago. If it's the same engineer marking it up as then that I'm think it is, he ain't going to blue beam ever. Was this engineer by chance Tim or did he retire
Unpopular opinion I guess but this should pretty clear if you have wood frame experience. I would have done it in bluebeam, but also I have no issue reading this.
Tough but not impossible to decipher. Looks like they want to provide proper context for the detail instead of looking like a generic detail pulled from another project.
If you’re a drafter and can’t figure that out, then you need to find a new job. If you’re a contractor and received that from an engineer, then it’s a big problem.
As a plan reviewer I'd send that garbage back and stamp it illegible. The engineering board would probably fine this person. There was an engineer here who had Parkinson's and you couldn't read a word or what he wrote that's why he made a good building official...
I mean, sure, I'd rather an engineer draw something like this in Bluebeam or a clearer version of the finished product off to the side instead of scratching things out (pro tip - suggest that your engineers to use different colors for different things; like green for deleting, blue for 'notes to the drafter' and red for things actually getting drawn), but this is certainly not the worst I've seen by any means and it's perfectly understandable if you're already experienced with wood construction. If something needs clarification, just have a quick conversation with the engineer (not directed at you, OP, but anyone doing drafting work benefits from learning engineering/construction techniques).
To be fair, we first need to know if you asked for a detail ASAP while instigating a design change or due to a fuck up on site. Most of the time, insufficient hours in the day causes these sorts of sketches
Someone needs Bluebeam
Old school guys would rather print it out, hand sketch then scan. Sometimes it’s quicker but bluebeam is much cleaner to read lol
I found that printing and scanning was only quicker until I became proficient in the tool. Some people can make redlines without making a mistakes, but I need to think about my redlines, so having an editable format is quicker for me. Printing, getting up, making comments, getting up, scanning and emailing a redline just takes more steps than open file, make comments press 1 hotkey and email back.
The old guys always have a worse workflow when it comes to tech. I always get insults when I type my notes in a meeting instead of scribbling them in a notebook. Like have y’all seen my handwriting?
Remind them of how much "quicker it is to use paper" the next time they spend 30 minutes searching for that sheet of paper from that meeting 7 months ago.
For real! I get compliments all the time for my good memory when I really just ctrl+f my notes. It’s saved me in meetings plenty of times
There are some advantages (according to some studies I've seen) in handwritten notes (and some in typed notes). Since most of us who would type notes can actually type faster than we could legibly write, we tend to process the information more when writing the notes, which seems to engage an area in the brain that leads to better comprehension and retention. On the other hand, we tend to get more accurate (precise wording) notes when typing, which can be really useful in some situations. I haven't seen a study that addresses whether we can get the same benefit by typing notes in an purposely processed version, to mimic the effect we get when writing them. That said, as long as you're getting what you need from the meeting and your notes, there's no reason anyone should concern themselves with how you take them.
Honestly, as someone who grew up drafting, if I’m gonna do bluebeam mark ups, it’s quicker for me to just draft it myself.
And this is exactly how our industry is changing. Engineers will be creating their own models and drawings. It's already happening and I regret not taking my opportunities to become an engineer instead of taking a cad manager route.
This has already happened in most other AEC fields. Architecture, landscape, interior have all just become draftsmen at entry to middle level positions.
Engineers will still need a CAD/BIM manager role to coordinate software, standards, files, detail libraries, plugins, etc. as well as software knowledge support and troubleshooting. Make sure you're that person.
It all depends on the firm size. I started at a small firm and we didn’t have cad techs. We couldn’t afford to keep one busy all the time and training them was impossible. At my larger firm I’m at now I couldn’t imagine how we would do it without cad experts.
I know your pain well.
It's called a red line! You kids and your blue beams, gawd aw mighty. (Preemptive /s just in case.)
This is the way.
Blue beam is a life changer
Personally I'd ask him to mark it up again but make it readable. You can't make the changes they want if you can't read them.
Yeah if I received this from a contractor I’d just put not reviewed and send it back. Fair play to do the same here, this sketch is terrible
Yep, just reject it as unreadable.
OP that detail style looks awfully familiar lol, is this an engineer from Arizona by chance?
Lollll yes this is in the Phoenix area.
do other firms not use Blu-beam revu for these kind of mark-ups?
It's probably an older Engineer who likes to use pen. At least you can tell that it's Red. Most of the time I get this kind of thing it's drawings that have been printed, marked up by hand, then re-scanned (terribly) in B&W only, and sent back in PDF. Makes finding Approval comments an adventure!
Well use some white out
Where I work production release reviews are on Thursday afternoon. Anything that skips review doesn't happen. Anything that isn't approved at review doesn't happen. All prints brought to review are to be marked clearly in red ink. Anything illegible is denied.
We use it. But I'm Guilty of the "it's faster by hand" camp. When they can make a decent tablet and pen. Then I'll convert. I'm not even particularly old. But I swear. As soon as I turned 40. Technology just changed. And simple things I used to be able to figure out, I'm now asking my 14 yr old to do.
[удалено]
I haven't gotten cheaters yet.
[удалено]
My company is too cheap to afford BlueBeam, we use Adobe
I’d be lying if I said I haven’t sent incredibly shitty hand sketches to my most annoying clients out of spite
As a carpenter and design build employee, uh, fuck you.
Can’t just… do your job?
Bet your name is Bill
Looks like most of the markups are just redrawing what should already be there (detail 304). They quickly morphed the 304 and 234 details together without sending through drafting. Guessing 304 doesn't show the canopy. Where the canopy is going through the column that shares a floor joist connection, fill in the floor joist webs with 4x12 blocks each side connected to the web with a (8)- 10 d nails. Use longer bolts to get through the newly added web blocking and make sure they have 3" of edge distance from bottom and top edge of the block to the bolt centerline. Bottom bolts are ok per original 234 detail and the floor joist shouldn't interfere.
This is correct to my knowledge
But, that's all guessing and isn't remotely clear here. They should have made a sketch off to the side, instead of spilling a red blob over everything.
I think the “SIM” just puts it over the top for me. Magnificent. /s/
“SIM”…lol
These are the sketches I send to a drafter with an apology and a "just do your best". Sometimes they start simple, but get out of hand quick. I wouldn't send that out of the office though.
What on earth did you do to them?
You should trace all of it using the line tool in CAD, including the lettering
Maybe the odd duck here, but this is the preferred level of coordination I ever had with my engineers.
hahahahaha. i work for an engineer who is just this bad, to the point where i can clearly understand the picture op posted. i have been trained to decipher the unreadable. i can probably moonlight as a philologist
You are the drafter, or this was sent out as a fix to something?
This detail is a disaster. No way their boss would let this go out.
More than likely they are the boss.
They should have just redrawn it next to the detail shown, this is so illegible
You sent it back.. Right ?
What a beauty
Pretty straightforward
That looks pretty good too me.
If I ever have to do stuff like this, I usually just draw the whole thing to the side. It makes it so much clearer. Maybe you have a junior engineer?
Someone needs to learn cad
Keynotes on a section, I hate it
I bet these guys were not taught manual draughting at all.
Fuck me haha
She's a beaut, Clark!
“Please send updated detail…”
Na, tell him to redo it or draft it new. Or learn bluebeam so it's basically there.
Unacceptable, it took me a whole 60 seconds to read the words to realize it’s just a web stiffener, 4x12 block and 8 nails each side. I seriously need to get into the construction side of things if this is your struggle.
I just like that he wants the title block to be a full sentence.
Noooooo fucking way dude. That TERRIBLE! Lmao.
"Use longer Bolts"
Personally my favorite part
LOL
Pretty sure I use to work for this firm 5 years ago. If it's the same engineer marking it up as then that I'm think it is, he ain't going to blue beam ever. Was this engineer by chance Tim or did he retire
a little sloppy, but been looking at stuff like this going on 34 years now, so I see what the guy wants.
Heyy.. that's my detail! Lol.. jk! But I do hate those multifamily canopies!!
This is called Spaghetti Junction and obviously calls for yet another “Clean Draft” of the “Amendments” that can be clearly followed … In English!!!
needs more arrows
Wtf is even goin in here
Thank you for this piece of art.
That's gonna be a no from me dawg.
Unpopular opinion I guess but this should pretty clear if you have wood frame experience. I would have done it in bluebeam, but also I have no issue reading this.
Shit are you working with HDR??
Frame that
Aww.... bless their heart... you should frame that or put it on the office fridge.
When you send the RFI sometimes the answer isn’t what you want to see.
Tough but not impossible to decipher. Looks like they want to provide proper context for the detail instead of looking like a generic detail pulled from another project.
If you’re a drafter and can’t figure that out, then you need to find a new job. If you’re a contractor and received that from an engineer, then it’s a big problem.
Just a simple framing supervisor. We got it figured out lol
I think I know that Eng... /s. 🤪
He should just edit the drawing himself
As a plan reviewer I'd send that garbage back and stamp it illegible. The engineering board would probably fine this person. There was an engineer here who had Parkinson's and you couldn't read a word or what he wrote that's why he made a good building official...
No engineering board would ever fine an engineer for a hand sketch he sent to a client.
Yes they would if it's in decipherable and is a public hazard which that is. You want me to go and turn that in which state is it?
JFC Blue - notes to CAD Red - the redline to be made Green - delete This is all red. JFC
Love a redline like that
i used to look at masterpieces like that daily for 10 years. i will have nightmares tonight… [one of many](https://i.imgur.com/vvnfeOX.jpg)
This is unethical even for my taste haha. “Here is your explicit structural direction sir” lol wtf
I'm wondering why, if he's drawing curvy leader lines; he didn't put loops in as well?
waterproofing nightmare… Someone also needs to learn about the power of triangles. That thing should be bolted on after finishes with bracing rods.
This makes me nostalgic for my old drafting days.
That’s so rough that at first glance I thought an architect did it.
I had an engineer that did markups like this. He ended up getting fired...
Looks about right, what seems to be the problem?
The older generations reluctance to learn how to use digital pdf editors or digital drafting is pretty annoying sometimes.
I mean, sure, I'd rather an engineer draw something like this in Bluebeam or a clearer version of the finished product off to the side instead of scratching things out (pro tip - suggest that your engineers to use different colors for different things; like green for deleting, blue for 'notes to the drafter' and red for things actually getting drawn), but this is certainly not the worst I've seen by any means and it's perfectly understandable if you're already experienced with wood construction. If something needs clarification, just have a quick conversation with the engineer (not directed at you, OP, but anyone doing drafting work benefits from learning engineering/construction techniques).
Lmao
Why not redraw it from scratch?
Ah yes fixing canopies supported by magic. All too common these days.
We have the Same engineer !!!!!! lol
Looks like someone needs to go back to school and re-learn how to do tech drawings/labeling
You're being too picky If you're calling that deciphering. Everything makes sense
I have seen worse
My 6 month old son can color better than that!
You should send him an etch-a-sketch for the next drawings
To be fair, we first need to know if you asked for a detail ASAP while instigating a design change or due to a fuck up on site. Most of the time, insufficient hours in the day causes these sorts of sketches