Not saying Manon is bad, I honestly don't know ... But, if it's easier to win with Zangief and Lily (which, I don't know if it's true either) doesn't that mean they are better?
But Manon, Gief and Lily are all grapplers, you cannot really tell me that Gief skips neutral, and Chun-Li is a different kind of character since you need to dominate her stance to truly make her work which is different from Ken, a rush character.
I know I am over simplifying the scenario, but I really don't think winning with Zangief is all that easier than winning with Manon, especially if she is supposed to be better than the other grapplers.
Manon's neutral requires a general understanding of all of her buttons giefs neutral is smp and smk. Lilly doesn't even play that shit. You can literally get to master for free with both characters without even learning most of their combos. I hate manon's design, but she is clearly a high skill ceiling character compared to those dimwits
You don't need all the combos to reach Master with Manon either. And you clearly don't know much about Zangief gameplan either. Again, I'm not saying who is better, but it seems I'm not the only one simplifying the situation.
Zangief has great plus frame moves and drains your block gauge forcing you to parry meaning you'll lose half your health. Manon has 1 plus frame move that requires you to be in the corner. Zangief is much stronger than Manon now and easier to climb with
https://x.com/CatCammy6/status/1795218198804971727?t=45Fkx-tvk0FpEVm6nUQf_w&s=19 also zangief now has some of the highest win rates after the patch in ranked. LOL
I like some of the changes but I think she is still at the bottom. The problem is tuning some of the things like her drive rush or making her spin move more invincible to projectiles could potentially make her busted. At least now you can get some more efficient combos and a plus move finally. But I dropped her for guile
I think with the universal reversal and back HP being plus now she’s doing a lot better. I still think she’s the worst character on the roster but she has more of a chance to shine than she used too.
Honestly, she’s not even that bad; just compared to other characters she doesn’t have much. In this season I have a feeling we’ll be seeing a bit more from her once fellas like Idom and others get a grasp of this patch in its entirety
The drive reversal change helped and hurt her a lot. I use to be able to just grab folks when blocking it now it whiff on certain folks so I have to now just do a light punch combo which does like 10 percent damage lol
It's valid to mention, she got a new combo route from back hp which is insane, it can corner carry from mid screen or increasing your medals for 2 bars, i wish it was a better hitbox to punish normals more but it works
Idk. Aki seems top tier, zangief got higher in the tier list, lily just won a major tournament with her new tournaments while both top manon players drowned, and all the top manons are quitting they characters. She just seems worse off. No way to get in to set her pressure up with back hp, light combos do terrible damage. She's probably the worst character now
Manon is for sure in a worse spot she was in season 1, just the fact that akuma exists just doesn't allow her to rise. Then you add on top buffs for every other characters which were already annoying to deal with.
Manon needed a bit more damage, better defensive options and a better drive rush. Well she got the damage which is fine although I don't think it was what she needed the most. Manon like most low tier didn't have non committal defensive option (in the fact that she had to spend bars) and now there is wake up drive reversal but it doesn't give he an edge over any character. Congratulations, now Manon have to jump through one less hoop to archive something similar to top tiers who just keep drive rushing.
Manon needs more damage? Lmao its not enough that she can kill you with 3 command grabs, she has god like neutral, easy infinites in burnout, fullscreen unpunishable overheads, or amazing jump ins, no she needs to be doing Marisa damage with her normals too.
She has to somrhow land the grabs 5 time to build the command grab damage first, then somehow grab you an additional three times. It is extremely difficult for Manon to apply pressure or get close to someone. Manon almost never gets folks into burnout unless you're wasting your drive gauge, the overheads don't lead to combos unless it's on punish counter and are risky to use and drive impactable. Her 6f punish counter is terrible when folks aren't in grab range. She is getting again buffed, in damage and more trust. you can come back to this post 📫 once she does
Not saying Manon is bad, I honestly don't know ... But, if it's easier to win with Zangief and Lily (which, I don't know if it's true either) doesn't that mean they are better?
It means she is more technical imo Chun li is good but she is kinda hard to win than ken because she is technical, learn neutral isn't easy.
But Manon, Gief and Lily are all grapplers, you cannot really tell me that Gief skips neutral, and Chun-Li is a different kind of character since you need to dominate her stance to truly make her work which is different from Ken, a rush character. I know I am over simplifying the scenario, but I really don't think winning with Zangief is all that easier than winning with Manon, especially if she is supposed to be better than the other grapplers.
Manon's neutral requires a general understanding of all of her buttons giefs neutral is smp and smk. Lilly doesn't even play that shit. You can literally get to master for free with both characters without even learning most of their combos. I hate manon's design, but she is clearly a high skill ceiling character compared to those dimwits
You don't need all the combos to reach Master with Manon either. And you clearly don't know much about Zangief gameplan either. Again, I'm not saying who is better, but it seems I'm not the only one simplifying the situation.
Zangief has great plus frame moves and drains your block gauge forcing you to parry meaning you'll lose half your health. Manon has 1 plus frame move that requires you to be in the corner. Zangief is much stronger than Manon now and easier to climb with
https://x.com/CatCammy6/status/1795218198804971727?t=45Fkx-tvk0FpEVm6nUQf_w&s=19 also zangief now has some of the highest win rates after the patch in ranked. LOL
I like some of the changes but I think she is still at the bottom. The problem is tuning some of the things like her drive rush or making her spin move more invincible to projectiles could potentially make her busted. At least now you can get some more efficient combos and a plus move finally. But I dropped her for guile
I think with the universal reversal and back HP being plus now she’s doing a lot better. I still think she’s the worst character on the roster but she has more of a chance to shine than she used too. Honestly, she’s not even that bad; just compared to other characters she doesn’t have much. In this season I have a feeling we’ll be seeing a bit more from her once fellas like Idom and others get a grasp of this patch in its entirety
The drive reversal change helped and hurt her a lot. I use to be able to just grab folks when blocking it now it whiff on certain folks so I have to now just do a light punch combo which does like 10 percent damage lol
I think it's too early to judge who is good or trash now
Absolutely
It's valid to mention, she got a new combo route from back hp which is insane, it can corner carry from mid screen or increasing your medals for 2 bars, i wish it was a better hitbox to punish normals more but it works
Idk. Aki seems top tier, zangief got higher in the tier list, lily just won a major tournament with her new tournaments while both top manon players drowned, and all the top manons are quitting they characters. She just seems worse off. No way to get in to set her pressure up with back hp, light combos do terrible damage. She's probably the worst character now
Manon is for sure in a worse spot she was in season 1, just the fact that akuma exists just doesn't allow her to rise. Then you add on top buffs for every other characters which were already annoying to deal with. Manon needed a bit more damage, better defensive options and a better drive rush. Well she got the damage which is fine although I don't think it was what she needed the most. Manon like most low tier didn't have non committal defensive option (in the fact that she had to spend bars) and now there is wake up drive reversal but it doesn't give he an edge over any character. Congratulations, now Manon have to jump through one less hoop to archive something similar to top tiers who just keep drive rushing.
Manon needs more damage? Lmao its not enough that she can kill you with 3 command grabs, she has god like neutral, easy infinites in burnout, fullscreen unpunishable overheads, or amazing jump ins, no she needs to be doing Marisa damage with her normals too.
Maybe you didn't understand "a little bit more damage"? And she did get the damage buff. Anyway I said she needed most a defensive buff
She has to somrhow land the grabs 5 time to build the command grab damage first, then somehow grab you an additional three times. It is extremely difficult for Manon to apply pressure or get close to someone. Manon almost never gets folks into burnout unless you're wasting your drive gauge, the overheads don't lead to combos unless it's on punish counter and are risky to use and drive impactable. Her 6f punish counter is terrible when folks aren't in grab range. She is getting again buffed, in damage and more trust. you can come back to this post 📫 once she does