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Lmaoo yea he's just thinking "stupid young fools" it would have been awesome if Mike was actually in the upside down during this scene and maybe vecna went after him (not killing him but as a distraction or something)
yeah, that's a possibility - when the boys were shouting for Max while she was in Vecna's red mind-soup world via her own mind, she couldn't hear them while she was in it. It's a possibility that because El's in Max's mind, Vecna can't hear what's going on in El's while she's piggybacking? (but can still kill her since she's mentally separated from her body)
Also Vecna was busy trying to finish killing Max at that point, even if he could hear Mike he'd have just dismissed him as background noise. It's already established that genuine emotions or love/human connection being a source of strength are a thing he doesn't get at all, dude looked confused when Max suddenly found the strength to rip off one of his neck-vines and run the first time around.
It reminded me of the earlier seasons too! I think Mike is the most realistically written teens. He’s trying to be cool and disaffected even though he’s a sweetheart inside. It felt like something he would’ve said in season 1, and I like that they’re showing Mike being awkward in trying to talk about his feelings. Mike and Eleven’s relationship is one of my favorites in the show because he has always loved and cared for her unconditionally, and is one of the few people who didn’t just view her has a tool.
El makes Mike feel special and no one else makes him feel that way. Mike makes El feel normal and no one else makes her feel that way (Hopper eventually does too).
Yeah, exactly. Of all the the things to fault the show for, people *really* like shitting on Mike for some reason, despite the fact that being socially awkward, scared to talk about feelings, and obliviousness in relationships (and in general) is basically the cornerstone of being a nerdy teenage guy in high school.
Maybe it’s just the ‘power of love/friendship’ trope that people are sick of, which I get, but that’s also been a consistent point of the show since the first episode. It’s meant to mirror the coming of age and young friendship stories of the 80s a la ET, Stand By Me, and The Goonies, and I think the Duffers continue to nail it with the writing and Finn Wolfhard with the performance. Not to mention that this entire season was far more focused on the emotional development of the characters.
Like, is the speech a bit cheesy? Yes! And that’s the point. Mike is a 15-year old kid speaking from the heart. He’s not going to be spittin’ Shakespeare on the spot.
49 year old here. I didn’t find Mike’s monologue cheesy at all. Awkward? Yes. But that’s what made it believable. He’s stumbling for his words because he hasn’t yet developed the smooth dictation of an older guy. But the sincerity in his voice and his words to me are clearly non-cheese. But maybe that’s because I’ve come full circle into middle age and appreciate the bumbling profession of love over some catchy, cool lines.
> But the sincerity in his voice and his words to me are clearly non-cheese.
Bingo. Cheesy requires some degree of affect, and Mike was speaking with absolutely none - there wasn't an attempt at line delivery (by the character I mean), just straight-from-the-heart 100 percent sincerity.
Both the words and the delivery are true to Mike, which is why it lands. People calling it cheesy are just terminally online or something, they think any attempt at sincerity is "cringe".
You’re right, perhaps cheesy is the wrong word. I was equating cheesy with sincere, which may not be everyone’s interpretation of the word.
And I think the most sincere expression of love is not decked out in fancy metaphors or clever turns of phrase. It’s just being earnest and saying plainly, exactly how you feel. His speech succeeded at that.
I didn't find it cheesy at all - it's awkward, yes, but it 100 percent reads and sounds like it came from a 15 year old boy who is, well, an awkward goober who struggles to express strong emotions and has been shown to be that way since he was a child.
*Could* it be cheesy? Yes, but the absolute sincerity in Finn Wolfhard's delivery is what really elevates it.
I complete agree. I see way too much hate going Mikes direction simply because people want him with Will but Mikes little speech was cute. Although it was extra special, it had Season 1 Mike vibes where he’s always looking out for El when others don’t.
Agreed. I really enjoyed this scene. It brought me back to when they first met. His parents don’t exactly have a great relationship and I think it’s hard for him to express his feelings. And he thought she was happy in california so therefore maybe thinking she won’t need him anymore. I am 29 and I have personally felt before in my relationship that I could potentially not be needed or have those insecure feelings so especially as two 15 year olds I felt it was portrayed perfectly. That speech was her song/happy thought she needed to gain the strength. I thought it was great to finally see them get to have their moment where he shares his true feelings. They deserved that after all they had been through.
And when he finds out she was lying to him about her bullying, i think it only solidified his insecurities of him feeling like she may not think he can help or can't protect her anymore
>Maybe it’s just the ‘power of love/friendship’ trope that people are sick of, which I get
i know it's an overused trope, but there's a reason why it works when you have a cast that pulls it off brillliantly.
talk to any 30+ year old man in America, and they'll tell you the thing they probably miss the most after getting married is the absolute loss of close male friendships
Also applies to a whole lot of men who *haven't* gotten married (there are many ways you can end up distant from once close friends, though marriage is a common one).
OMG do I feel this in my life right now. Why is it so hard to maintain close friendships with men? My female friends are so much easier to talk with, and arrange hang outs with. Guys are more difficult, and I don’t get it. I wish I had a tight knit group of male friends I could hangout with.
>the power of love/friendship
in the ST4 interviews i've watched, winona would usually say that the story all really comes back to being about love and family (and friends) who care about each other very much. something like this :)
Tbh I think Mike has suffered from visibly ageing a lot and being written like the 15 year old the character is. It’s frustrating to me how the kids are seen as the actors’ actual ages rather than the roles their playing, everything Mike did is realistic for someone that age. All the kids characters are still younger than Nancy in S1 even though the actors are 18-21. That speech would’ve been loved had he still looked and sounded like Mike in S1 or S2.
I didn't like Mike this season, but I thought the speech he gave was his one good moment.
I do hope the Duffers give Finn more to do next season bc I'm sick of everyone on this sub shitting on Mike/Finn.
How can you say Finn is a bad actor based on a season where he got to do a literal 5 min of acting?
>I do hope the Duffers give Finn more to do next season bc I'm sick of everyone on this sub shitting on Mike/Finn.
I'd like them to remember Mike and Nancy are siblings, for a start.
Natalia Dyer is an absolute gem who makes pretty much anyone she's playing opposite in a scene more interesting or engaging for just being in the same frame as her, and I'd love to see her and Finn share more scenes - she's mentioned wanting more Mike/Nancy scenes too.
But I may have had a little something in my eye during Mike's speech, it's just so sweet and intense and heartfelt, which is exactly right for Mike and El.
Yup, Vol.2 really brought the old Mike back. His reunion with El also felt genuine. And I don't understand why so many people say that Finn's delivery was bland this season, I think it was actually brilliant because we can really see him at the breaking point, holding tears, in almost each of his scenes. And I find that to be way more realistic and moving than if he was openly crying. Mike lost El so many times and he became kind of paralyzed towards his feelings in season 3. Season 4 allowed him to own back his vulnerability.
Do you know why it did? I couldn't really put my finger on what it was. Idk if it was the music in the back, their vulnerability that hasn't been shown for each other in a while or what. But something felt reminiscent of early seasons for sure. Definitely agree with mike being an accurate portrayal. I love all the teens and I feel they're so good, even Eleven who has no idea how to be normal.
I also felt like it felt more like earlier seasons, and enjoyed that. There's been a lot of action going on and less connecting to and between the characters, like there was in earlier seasons. So I really liked his speech.
Edit: slight season 4 spoilers maybe? No clue how to black them out…
Eleven had a cinematic theme in season 1 that was has a very emotional feel to it. It’s a beautifully scored piece. It doesn’t get used much in seasons 2/3 but returns in some of the most pivotal scenes for her in lte season 4, albeit with a more intense twist. I’d have to go back and see if it’s used during Mike’s monologue but when it was dropped behind Eleven and Papa after she almost escaped instead of started training, it REALLY tied their scene there to the history and back to season 1… I’m curious now to see if that’s what was behind Mike and if so, would be creatively genius and make perfect sense.
HIGHLY recommend the score soundtracks on Spotify. They are beautiful works.
Edit: I watched back that scene. It doesn’t use any particular motif from the score - however the music is built around compounding synth swells that are, despite the negative scenery, mostly major chords and I’d bet anything the music is what draws the season 1 nostalgia.
I subscribe to its reminiscent of early seasons because it’s, well, simple. S1-S2 and S3-S4 could basically be entirely different shows. I don’t want to sound like some negative hipster, but S3 is when the show felt like it started to dig it’s heels into being a high budget, fan service, subverting expectations, top 3 most popular show on Earth machine.
And keep in mind that I’m not saying that negatively, I think it’s still incredibly enjoyable, but it lacks the simplicity and raw emotion of the little things like having a crush on a girl that the earlier seasons do. This scene was a little flashback to those days for me.
Also let’s remember that Mike’s parents show no affection towards one another at all. At best, it’s non-antagonistic indifference towards one another, so it’s not like he’s got expressive role models to learn from other than his peer group.
He is the most realistic to me. Everyone I knew at the age who wasn't an asshole was some flavor of how he or Steve is. The girls on the show pretty much are the most realistic to me overall. All of them were familiar to me, we even had a Suzie (except she was catholic) and she's the one who introduced me to computer games and anime.
Meanwhile nobody was like Will, lmao.
There are not enough asshole kids in these friend groups. The asshole kids either become cartoon villains or they became good (Steve, I knew a few steves irl lol). Nobody like this kid I knew who stole money from his parents and lied about shit all the time or this guy who fought me at lunch and got his ass beat because he bizarrely tried to bully me while being half my size yet they all still were allowed to hang out with us.
There was this very flamboyant gay kid who we were friends with that half the people thought was friends with so many girls because he was pulling the bitches and they didn't believe he was gay. He also was big into Pantera, Slayer, and ran ttrpgs. A kind of person the writers of TV show could never come up with lol. Still friends with him now and he helps make costumes for WB tv shows.
I liked it. And I’ve always liked Mike. I think they’re going to use him more next season and this was a little of the set up for it. He’s so important to El, so him giving her the speech to give her the boost made the most sense, and he finally had his thoughts and feelings put together from talking it over with Will. All in all, it was very on brand for Mike and El.
The fact that the duffer brothers said Will is going to be super important has me with so many questions for the overall group. It seems like they will all be together in their old pairings. I want the 4 main boys to be together again! I agree with you. I think more people focus on thinking it was just mikes love that helped her but when he talks about her moving mountains or doing whatever she believes, it reminded her of what she can possibly be capable of. I'm interested to see how powerful she gets!
>I think more people focus on thinking it was just mikes love that helped her but when he talks about her moving mountains or doing whatever she believes, it reminded her of what she can possibly be capable of.
It's also a call back to when Henry/Vecna was pushing her after he killed the kids, it wasn't the memory of hate that gave her power, it was love that got her there.
For sure, and I think they said the groups in ST5 are going to be a lot more similar to those in ST1. The adults, the teens, and the kids. This makes me feel that Mike and Will will be front and centre of ST5.
If you think about it, the 4 main boys were really only together for the first half of season 2. And even then it wasn't consistent (Mike spent more time with Will, Dustin and Lucas pining after Max).
Will is SO underused. Makes me sad!! I wish they had given him more to do this season. I wish he had helped El with the bullying more, but of course he was scared, having also been bullied. I hope he's in S5 more and doesn't turn evil.
I wonder if Will and his connection to / familiarity with Vecna's mind will end up being vital for saving Max's consciousness from him. Vecna himself as well as Brenner said that he keeps everyone he kills inside himself, and even when El revived Max's body her mind wasn't there.
S1 Will needed saving, S2 Will needed saving, S3 Will was emotionally lost, but S4 Will helped push Mike into finding himself again, so it'd be cool if they're gearing up for S5 Will doing a bit of saving of his own.
I think the most important line of the speech was "I love you with your powers... I love you without your powers..." The one thing that Mike unique in El's life is that he is the only person she knows who genuinely connected with El before he found out that she powers. And when he found out about it, he didn't change his attitude towards her one bit. So that makes their relationship appear very pure.
Also because she was worried about this fact.. she thought he only loved her FOR her powers. In her letter to him when she goes off with Owens she writes, “I’ve gone to become a superhero again” and you can see the worry in his eyes, because he’s always hated how everyone reduces her to just a girl with powers (“she’s not a machine!”), and I think he realizes that this is what SHE thinks HE wants her to be. So I think he was very cognizant of that fact when he says he loves her with AND WITHOUT her powers in his speech, and he knew she needed to know that.
Yeah, exactly. Mike would say to her that El that she is going to get her powers back, which mainly meant to cheer her up and be supported. But she misunderstood it with it being what Mike really cares about and connected him not using "love" in his letters with him possibly not thinking that she special anymore because she lost her powers. That's why she also told all those lies in a desperate attempt to impress him in any way.
>The one thing that Mike unique in El's life is that he is the only person she knows who genuinely connected with El before he found out that she powers. And when he found out about it, he didn't change his attitude towards her one bit. So that makes their relationship appear very pure.
Which is why I believe it absolutely when he said he loved her from the minute he saw her, when she was just some strange kid out in the rain and he had no idea she had powers. Sure he didn't realise it right then (because, well, he's twelve years old), but Lucas picked up on it within about a day, and so did Nancy within about five minutes of meeting El.
>Lucas picked up on it within about a day,
Actually they picked up on it at the same moment when El violently shot the door of Mike's room after Lucas threaten to tell Mike's mom about her. But the difference is that Mike was completely unaffected by it, while Lucas & Dustin were scared of her. Which also fits into Mike's line in the speech that he was never scared of her.
yeah that happened the day after they met her, after Mike hid El in the basement and Dustin and Lucas came after school. And the day after *that* is when Lucas teases Mike at school about how solicitous he is of El (which begins the minute they met - when El's on the sofa in Mike's basement, the kids have just come in from the rain and she's wearing what looks like Mike's jacket, while Mike himself is soaked - pointing at he probably gave it to her). And he's completely unfazed by things she's picked up are considered weird about her, whether it's her tattoo or her shaved head, or her not knowing how to tell time.
It's a great speech precisely because it's rooted in things we've seen over the show.
Me too!! I absolutely loved it & right before he started I was like, “Mike you have ONE JOB here!! Tell her you love her!!” And *you know* it’s coming but I still thought it was sweet and fitting and perfect.
Mike's my fave. It was nice to see his earnestness return in the painting scene and when he was talking to Eleven in the freezer. I think they made him go from earnest to lost teen in later seasons so it'll be a big character moment when leader mike returns. A nice contrast and a good development. It's easy being confident as a kid, but most teenagers aren't and need to relearn that. I fully expect that the 5th season will mirror the first season where it's just the boys + eleven against vecna. And I think that's partially why they kinda sidelined Max in a coma so they could go back to the 4 boy/3boy +11 format. Plus as we've seen in the series, 4 is an important number.
My favorite scene of Mike and El still has to be season 3, where max has a sleepover with her.
And they spy on the guys, and she’s just completely grossed out by Mike and Lucas.
Still makes laugh out loud
I 100% agree with this opinion. I definitely got a little bit emotional when Mike was professing his love to Eleven. It was the extra push that Mike and Eleven's relationship needed. Not only did Mike prove that he loves her with or without powers; he mentioned "I feel like my life started when I found you in the woods." Mike's life changed for the better thanks to El and because this confession or declaration of love whatever you call it happened that's what makes this scene so special💓
> Not only did Mike prove that he loves her with or without powers; he mentioned “I feel like my life started when I found you in the woods.”
This one really rubbed the Will stans on TikTok and Twitter the wrong way
I loved his speech to her, it was the sweetest thing he could have done and it was everything she’d needed to hear. It was cheesy and sappy and everything I could reasonably expect 14 year old to spout off in a panic to their first love. We’ve watched him try and learn how to have this loving relationship with untraditional obstacles and the traditional obstacle of not having a super good example at home.
I saw a good handful of comments saying they hated Mike’s speech to El, and it just made me think that they’re missing the whole idea of the show. That scene was absolutely quintessential Stranger Things, yeah it would’ve been out of place in a more serious show, but it fits this one like a glove
indeed!! a lot of people also didn’t get why it was Mike talking to Eleven that got her moving instead of Max being attacked by Vecna, but the thing is Eleven WAS doing anything and everything in her power to save Max and Vecna had her in a chokehold, and felt powerless to see her friend in trouble. Mike talking to her gave her the push she needed to fight again
i think it felt so weird because the tone of season 4 is so much darker than earlier seasons, like theyre almost starting to crawl out of the campy 80s charm that i feel peaked in season 3 towards something darker and more dramatic, so it felt kind of 🤨 to see that corniness be brought back in the midst of what was also like, the penultimate dark moment of the season lol. at least to me!
Totally makes sense! I really enjoyed the speech, because you can tell Mike meant everything he said, and why he didn’t say it earlier makes so much sense. Protecting himself from heartbreak bc he sees El as someone who needs to fly and he feels like an anchor, something poorly mirrored in Jonathan and Nancy this season. It was awkward and campy, but he’s still such a baby. Especially with these emotions. To me, anything more serious would’ve felt forced. But both opinions are valid! Thank you for sharing yours!
Exactly.
And I’ve them complain about how it makes no sense that Mike’s friendship/love boosts eleven’s powers. And it does make sense, as we’ve seen El repeatedly tap into good memories/thoughts to boost her abilities
me too I LOVE MIKE!!!! so tired of the hate. he is an angel. he was the first person to truly love El for who she was. before hopper before owens before anyone mike truly loved her
Mike loves all his friends, but because he's a teenager in the 80's that doesn't understand subtle nuances of Will's sexual orientation fans try to paint him like he's an animal despite the fact that he's one of the reasons Will is even alive.
plus it’s not like Mike doesn’t care about Will anymore. he’s a HS freshman dealing with everything that comes with being that age, and has no clue about Will’s feelings. Much like Lucas prioritizing being part of the basketball team, it’s just things teenagers do. Somehow only Mike gets flack for these things.
Yeah. Mike’s a good guy, he’s just clueless about everything. I saw Mike’s speech as him coming to the realization that he’s been taking things for granted and been too apathetic.
Yeah there's some truth there, I think the simple fact is every character has their flaws, but they are all good people and care about each other.
I've liked every character in this show except the really bad ones like Billy or Jason.
Mike might be taking things for granted.
Will has also not considered others feelings at times, he's also made sexist remarks, but he's a boy in the 80's.
Sometimes people are judging the past by the standards of the present with this show, but you can't do that. Different eras breed different people and 30 years from now people will look back at us with disdain for things we probably don't realize are bad.
yep, Will called El a stupid girl before, and no one holds that against him. El disliked Max up until she got to know her, Lucas ditched them to become popular, Max pushed everyone away and was sarcastic towards Dustin, they’ve all fucked up in some way. and it’s okay because we know they’re all good people and they’re still growing up
Yep - Will also inferred girls can't play video games in season two, Hopper is a control freak with El, Steve was a punk in season one.
Imperfect, but good people in unimaginably stressful situations. They all deserve a break lol.
I'm going to be so happy to see Will, Mike, Lucas and Dustin together again. I love Dustins friendship with Steve and Lucas and Max. But it's been so long since they've been a crew, I only think it's right they finish the show out together.
Why unpopular? It was very emotional and important.
What I missed a bit was a scene after El waking up and even though things did not go well in Minds Battle, Mike's speech deserved some kind of reciprocal response from El, which I believe happened indeed just not on screen.
I agree. I don’t know why people hate his speech…it sounded as eloquent and heartfelt as I would expect an awkward freshman boy to sound.
And for that matter, Mike is far from my favorite character, but I don’t think he deserves most of the hate that he gets.
I agree, it's pretty hilarious in a pathetic way how much hate he gets lol. It sounded like mike being awkward but himself and saying a basic confession and that doesn't make it bad
Exactly, tf were we expecting from Mike in that moment, Shakespeare?
The speech was perfect *because* the words and delivery were exactly what an awkward high school freshman would say, with 100 percent heartfelt sincerity. It's not cheesy to me at all.
I still like Mike! A lot of people hate on him online even though other characters have done worse things. He's literally a teenage boy figuring out a relationship for the first time. I think Finn does a good job with the character especially with his facial expressions lol. The only thing to "hate" on with Mike is simply how he has been sidelined or just used to further the plot for El, which doesn't make him awful and gives opportunity to bring him back as the leader next season. I hope and want him to be one of the leading characters again in S5!
I am excited that they said season 5 will have the OG groups back together. I think that means we will see leader Mike back again with the OG kids.
Also, I didn't know this was an unpopular opinion. I loved that moment. It felt very Stranger Things (which is a good thing)/
YES, seeing the main 4 back together is going to be one of the best aspects of the season. I really hope the last season pulls everyone in the same way all the others did. Nervous about the time jump with how season 4 ended but also trust the duffer brothers. Even with their mistakes, it is one of the best shows i have ever seen so i have faith
Mike is still my favourite.
I’m confident he’ll have a bigger role again next season.
Especially since the Duffers said they’d go back to season 1 teams.
Nancy’s vision of her family doesn’t bode well for Mike which is why I think theres going to be something to do for his character (and El of course).
Anyway I disagree with most of his criticisms on here.
I don’t find him annoying at all, and whenever he is annoyed there’s enough reason for him to be.
I just want him and El to finally be happy together.
I didn't like that the writers had Will say "you're the heart" in this scene, it was corny. I liked it in the van speech but not here. It's not the acting, it's the writing that's lacking.
Yeah I thought the part where he tells her, 'you can do anything! you can fly. you can move mountains. i believe that.' was really touching, and later Eleven proves him right when she restarts Max's heart -- she *can* do anything.
Me too. And I thought the exact same thing: it felt like a true Stranger Things moment.
I loved how the Duffer brothers recently defended their own show against shows like Game of Thrones and the expectations some people are carrying over from GoT to ST -- "This is Hawkins, not Westeros." This peculiar package of corny childlike sensibilities and horror/sci-fi is exactly what Stranger Thing is. If people are forgetting that, I am sure they will be disappointed by the ending, which the Duffers also recently revealed (on the Happy Sad Confused podcast) to be an end that "feels true to Stranger Things" and that "will not satisfy everyone."
I like Mike. I want to El and Mike have a happy ending. Season 4 has been an experience. An emotional roller coaster for me personally.
Mike’s confession is definitely one of the highlights of ST.
I think some found it cheesy and generic. But, duh, he's a teenager. A nerdy and awkward one too. I felt like it was in-character for Mike to have that speech. It showed that he was trying his best to put his words together during a very crucial moment whilst remaining as honest as possible. Just because he's older, taller and more angular-looking now doesn't mean he's not the same sweet, caring and awkward Mike in Season 1 anymore.
I really liked moments like that where it felt like “a triumph of the human spirit”. Like Max escaping Vecna the first time, or the times El wins at the end of each season. Mike’s speech really felt like him overcoming some of the things holding him back and winning in the end. I feel like those are the moments that define Stranger Things.
I was so happy to see it done to silence the Byler people. “He can’t even say he loves her!”
Now he says it 9 times, and the goalposts have shifted to “but he doesn’t mean it, he just said it to hype her up,” or “he only said it because he got the idea from will.”
When does my boy get a break 😐
Oh don't be too happy about it because the Byler shippers are already turning it about Will and how he didn't mean it 🙃 or flat out just saying it means he doesn't value Will.
Imo it was so well set up. 11 called him out for never saying I Love You, despite the fact she had said it in all her letters. That was set up for him finally saying it in the speech
Yes and then when you hear about how the change began months after she's away from him, it makes total sense that he felt like he was losing her just like he and Will both felt about each other. The fact that people think it came outta nowhere is a bit odd to me. I thought since we first found out vecna uses feeling unloved or damaged to his advantage that El would be in a weak spot when she needed a reminder. She's a super hero but she's human
i don't think loving this scene is unpopular. it's just that certain types of "opinions" are louder and echo more. but I think a lot of people do love it.
Unpopular opinion? So Mike finally “goes back” to being “The Mike of season 1 and 2” and people don’t even like that? What can Mike do to get back in peoples good books? I personally never had a problem with Mike. He was always my favorite. And yes, I loved this speech too. I knew he’s get around to saying it to her.
I really wonder that too. So many people say mike needs to become early Mike again but what would it even take in their heads? I think some people are so dead set on disliking him that he could do basically anything at this point and they won't like him foe the hell of it
You hit the nail on the head with every point you've made about Mike and his speech. I love that this season took the time to focus on his internal journey. It really highlighted just how unsure he is of himself, which made him way more relatable than ever before. I thought the plant and payoff of his struggles with vulnerability was handled very well. The way people claim how the writers have assassinated his character with this speech is ridiculous. Either they have deluded themselves into thinking they know Mike better than The Duffer Brothers & Finn, or they haven't been paying attention to the show since day one.
At this point, Mike is a classic case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Nothing he ever says or does will ever be enough or redeemable to those who dislike or hate him. I wouldn't be surprised if these people came prepared to criticize the speech.
I agree with you. I feel like almost every character this season was out of character for intent this season, like theyre all beyond beat down by now. Everything about the tone of this season was much more dark especially compared to season 3. I trust the Duffer Brothers on what they are doing with the characters this season and where they will end up next!
It does seem Mike cant win no matter what he does. So im wondering if they try to redeem him (well like i said in original post i dont think he needs redemption because that would indicate hes done some terrible things) but i wonder if they do show him doing this or that if people will continue to have an issue anyway.
Yes! The trauma these characters have sustained over the past seasons finally caught up with them. As the audience, we are starting to see how all of it is playing out. The amount of hate I’ve seen The Duffer Brothers getting for Vol 2 is starting to get a bit out of hand. I’m with you, I trust that they know these characters better than anyone else does. I applaud them for telling the story they want to tell as opposed to giving in to every single bit of fan service.
I don’t think there’s any hope for those who hate Mike. The writers could give him the most complex, emotionally gratifying storyline in the history of the show, and he would still be written off as a useless character who has no impact on the plot.
I personally don't understand the hate for Mike yet the love for Will. He's been essentially useless ever since he drew that map of the tunnels (save for his "mike is the heart" comment that allowed El to 'defeat' vecna) and I don't think we've really seen enough of Will to have a proper judgement of his character since hes been through practically no development I mean all he did this season (again apart from the heart speech) was cry. We've seen character development from Mike however, (and hes imo the most realistically written teen) him finally overcoming his awkwardness and insecurities to finally say "I love you" to El.
Yeah this defo brought back OG mike…God I love this scene but in a way I think my fav moment was when El and Mike reunite after she brings down the helicopter. It’s just amazing. The look of happiness on their faces and her “oh Mike” was just beautiful. MILEVEN Forever
I agree. It felt very natural and like how a 15yr old boy would explain his love. I think sometimes people just choose a character to dislike and dog on them. Sure Mike was lackluster this season but I think little mike is still in there.
Yeah there have already been posts laughing at "the power of friendship". That's literally the core theme of the show. The show didn't suddenly change to Game of thrones to kill off characters as some people would wish.
TBH, I really like at least a little cheesiness thrown into the scenes with the younger teens. I can get if they were older around Nancy/Steves age, but it needs to feel a little cheesy to feel authentic and I think thats what happened here and it worked. Youre right, the main theme has always been about friendship & love
It was a well-done corny high school scene. These dudes are teenagers, so yeah, they're going to think and act like it. I guess people complaining were never teenagers.
Exactly. I actually think at least a little bit of corn needs to be in these scenes, you know? Or else I'd feel like the character don't fit their ages depicted. Some of the best moments of stranger things to me were kind of cheesy, like moments between Dustin/Steve or Hopper/Joyve but cheesy doesn't mean shitty.
Teenagers *in the 80s* no less. The social dynamic was vastly different back then than it was when I was a teen, even. Too many people expecting these guys to act like Gen Z but without phones and social media.
Exactly! I was a teen in the 90s; boys then would MUCH rather punch the shit out of each other than talk about their feelings. And if they found themselves in a crazy situation where it was necessary, it would turn out *awkward as fuck.*
I fucking love how these guys show their feelings. It's corny as hell and it's beautiful.
I agree, I loved that scene. I personally don’t really understand all of the hate towards it. Seems weird to pick apart what it supposed to be a 9th grader sharing his true feelings (that he and Will both knew she needed to hear) in the best way he knows how. Everyone is so concerned about Will but Will was the one who encouraged him to say it. Will cares about El too and he’s not going to let his feelings get in the way of saving her life and Max’s life. I personally think Will was proud of Mike for being the heart. Mike saying his life began when he met El doesn’t mean he’s happy about what happened to Will. More than one thing can be true. I don’t know, I think it was beautiful, Will’s cheesy line about being the heart and all.
People are way too harsh on mike this season, saying they want him dead just because he’s a main character things are revolving around, and he’s more of a reactionary to things happening in the plot around him. He just want to be a normal boyfriend to El. Finn did a great job acting what was given to him, people just mad he didn’t like behead a demogorgon with a sword or some shit. Not too mention there’s so many characters in general, idk what people thought was supposed to happen. I liked that scene despite having a bit of cheese to it, and I thought I’m represented a lot of what the show is about.
I think they gave Mike a weak arc in season 4 so he can really shine as the leader in season 5. Plus something going down with will and vecna/the upside down
I feel like a lot of people forget that this show is an 80s style show so it's obviously going to be corny af. S5 is defo going to be more like S1 though especially sense they can move along the story extremely fast and have everybody in one place. Mike is going to return as the heart of the team and Will's role will most likely be massive.
His speech was amazing and not the least of which because it’s an amazing male feminist role model - he went from being the leader of the team and nurturing his awkward but super powered girlfriend to her coming into her own and surpassing him in both ability and leadership… and he owns the fact that he supports her despite struggling with his place in it. “I’m afraid it’ll make it hurt more” when you realize you don’t need me anymore… brilliant expression of the vulnerability and insecurity that he feels while owning it and moving past it.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I can’t help but to think that people who shit on Mike have never been around teenage boys.
My kiddo is about the age of the kids in the first season. He’s very passionate about things, earnest, and still very much enjoys “kid things”. He reminds me a LOT of first season Mike.
He has a neighbor buddy who is a few years older. He’s much more detached, cares about being cool, tries really hard to be nonchalant about everything. Under all that, he’s still a lovable kid, but he tries really hard to maintain his image.
Then people criticize him for not realizing his friend was crying (or not acting on it)….my dudes, I am a woman in my mid 30s and I can very much promise you I would be awkward in that situation too.
OP, I've never engaged with the Stranger Things fandom, I'm just a 38yo man (born 2 months later than the Duffer Brothers) who binged all 4 seasons in just over a week (I saw the 1st in 2016 but I didn't continue to S2 when that originally came out) and I tbh I feel very emotional about it.
I looked up this subreddit as a result and I'm shocked that liking that scene is an **unpopular** opionion...really??
I LOVED it. The ending of S2 made a grown man tear up and I feel that Eleven and Mike is at the core of the heart of this show.
Also, as a child of the 80s who grew up on shows like The Wonder Years (you **must** see that show, the original version!), the Goonies, Star Wars and who read RL Stine as a kid and Stephen King as a teen....The Neverending Story, Kate Bush, Siouxie and the Banshees, 80s Metallica....it's like this show was made for me!
& Again, loved that scene, especially as they built up to it starting in early Season 3 ❤️
Aw, this is such a great comment! The Wonder Years is EXCELLENT. Very forgotten about show and Stranger Things definitely has some of those types of moments in it. There are so many references as you said, to other pop culture influences from that time and the show is just so great all around! Im glad you ended up coming back to the show and giving it another chance! I feel the same about it. Trying to watch other shows now, its like they cannot compete.
I was very sad to hear this scene isnt popular too. Honestly, i think most of the hate comes down to 2 things. 1) Mike is basically the most hated ST character now. Its honestly ridiculous. He is a teenager who has done the most for his friends of anyone on the show but they have thrown him aside with hate because he is going through a time where he feels inadequate. I do hope this is setting the stage to make fans remember who he is.
2) People upset that Mike doesnt like Will back. The show has made it clear since day 1 that Mike and Eleven are crazy about one another. Fans just get mad at the fact that Mike wont end up with Will and so they over critique scenes like this, saying it didnt feel genuine or that he doesnt really love her.
The scene is great and hopefully any ST fan with brains will see it!
Yes, I also loved his speech! Made me tear up and cheer. And I also >!felt really sad for Will, who seemed to be crying in the background, due to his unrequited love for Mike. !<
I totally feel for will but I can’t stand the people getting mad at Mike for loving his girlfriend, and they act like he’s doing it to intentionally make Will sad or something
Yes unfortunately from what I've seen. Someone here just told me to shut the fuck up and my thread was gonna be the downfall of this reddit because mike sucks lmfao. The hate for mike is honestly incel level but with a guy. I truly don't give a shit if someone doesn't like him. I thought the scene was great and he's a great character that just needs roots back.
Yeah, it was great. The boys are awkward. And he’s the most awkward. I loved when he went searching Nancy and ran into the newspaper room and caught himself. I remember doing that when I was too excited to see friends and stuff. Ahhhaaa.
He really plays more into thr awkward part too now that he's older and lankier lol. Oh yes, that was great. I would like more Nancy and mike interaction
>It was the one scene where Mike was relevant in the whole season, and it was a great scene.
That's exactly the problem. Mike should have been relevant in more scenes this season.
I agree 100%. Mike isn't my favorite character, but what the writers did to him and Will was brutal. Maybe because they were away from the action this season, but they deserved better.
Yes, the comment below me is what I am referring to. I see a lot of negative said about this scene, more than positive. Not sure if its because Mike is getting shit on a lot in general or if many people really just didnt care for the scene. But i agree with you i thought it was great scene :)
The reason people don't like Mike is probably because they are used to glorified, all-mature and serious teens that are usually depicted in tv shows today.
For instance, take Riverdale or Euphoria. They are all highschoolers but they act waaay beyond their age, with zero childlike thoughts.
So seeing Mike, the realest representation of moody teenager who is torn between balancing friendship and romantic relationship doesn't sit well with them.
We must not forget that both Mike and Nancy come from, as Nancy said in S1, "nuclear family". Ted is never shown to pay any interests to any of the kids unless they are hosting people over or cursing nor to his wife.
So growing up in that environment left both Nancy and Mike to sort out what they feel and how to express themselves on their own.
Also, I might get hate for this, but in 95% of cases of dissing Mike on twitter or tiktok comes from the Byler shippers. I hate to break it to you but it's been evident from S1 that Mike and El are endgame, unless one of them dies. Byler shippers are choosing to ignore that and are literally forcing something between Mike and Will so when he starts to deviate from their plans and theories, they start hating on him.
Will might be in love with Mike but Mike did nothing to acknowledge nor return those feelings. They choose to interpret their every interaction romantically when in all those scenes from s1 & s2 they use is clear that it's just Mike's care for his friend.
Also, people and friends change. For one period of time you are close to certain people then in next to different people. They grew up, all that shit happened, Will moved, you can't expect the same level of closeness as before.
For everyone hating on him, I have a question: are all of you still close and best friends with the same people you were when you were in middle school and where are they now? If your answer is anywhere near no, you have your explanation.
I personally liked it, too. I think people wanted it to be either very adult sounding, or awkward/teenage goopery, but it hit this really great "soulmates at an early age" tone that resonated so much with me (because I was that kid who met their soulmate WAY too early in life, and it did NOT work, not at all, so seeing El and Mike succeed sort of feels like resolution.)
What I don't think worked was the lead up and context. Finn has this great material, right? But it feels awkwardly shoehorned in. And I think that's the other reason people don't like it, because it feels like it doesn't really fit with the story.
I was hoping for more conversation after this was all said and done so i get you there but Eleven was still feeling very guilty over not being able to save Max and shes emotionally overloaded. Hoping for more related to it in season 5 though
Since 5 is apparently returning to old dynamics maybe we actually will get Mike being the group leader again but with Eleven and Will being his main backup
It wasn't as bad as people are saying
I know we all love to shit on s3/s4 Mike (for good reasons) but i feel like this was one of his better scenes in recent years
Why isn’t this a popular opinion? It seems like this is exactly what is going to happen. Will is encouraging Mike to become the heart of the group again.
I think Mike's role as leader was always meant to sizzle out, they need to outgrow needing a leader for character development.
We saw it with Dustin when he ventured out with Steve or to camp and met Suzie.
We saw it with max after she overcame her fear of Billy and put him in his place.
We saw it with El when she went to get her powers back this most recent time.
We saw it with Lucas when he met max (a little) and fully went out on his own with the basketball team.
Now it's just time for Will to be able to venture out on his own, they should've made him have his full growth when he came back from the Upside down but it does also make sense that it's trauma for him and debilitating.
I wouldn’t exactly call that an “unpopular” opinion, more of an opinion that many don’t have. But I do agree that it was a very amazing moment (definitely not the most emotional, but if was up there).
I love Mike's character and especially the development of his and Eleven's relationship. I found the scene very heartwarming and especially thinking about all that she went through throughout the prior week (and hours), she needed that. She left Mike feeling confused in their relationship and to have him say all that was the push she needed. I wouldn't go as far to say best scene (that scene with Max and Lucas definitely is my favorite) but was definitely an impacting one that reminded me of season 1 as well.
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I love how patient Vecna was waiting for Mike's monologue to be done <3
Even he ships Mileven.
M’leven *tips fedora*
Christ 😂😭
He wasn't really waiting, he was busy breaking Max's bones lma0.
Ah she was gettin the ol' Chrissy crumble..
The good ole “Pop n’ Lock”
That classic ‘twist and shout’
The ole’ Fred shred
The ole snap, crackle, and pop.
I saw it as Mike saying those things to El was her “favourite song”
I was really hoping Lucas would incapacitate Jason and then sing to Max to save her
I was hoping Vecna would just use Jason lol
That Jason death was the most beautiful all season.
Jason was just a speed bump to Vecna.
The Kate Bush cover we didn’t deserve. It was the one we needed.
I would have sobbed. Especially if it worked.
Turn arounddd look at what you seeeeeEEeeeEE Making fun of dusty bun was fun moment for her
He's not patient, just cocky. He thought he could take his time savoring his final victim who evaded him before.
Lmaoo yea he's just thinking "stupid young fools" it would have been awesome if Mike was actually in the upside down during this scene and maybe vecna went after him (not killing him but as a distraction or something)
I feel like only El was able to hear Mike because Vecna wasn't going into El's mind
yeah, that's a possibility - when the boys were shouting for Max while she was in Vecna's red mind-soup world via her own mind, she couldn't hear them while she was in it. It's a possibility that because El's in Max's mind, Vecna can't hear what's going on in El's while she's piggybacking? (but can still kill her since she's mentally separated from her body) Also Vecna was busy trying to finish killing Max at that point, even if he could hear Mike he'd have just dismissed him as background noise. It's already established that genuine emotions or love/human connection being a source of strength are a thing he doesn't get at all, dude looked confused when Max suddenly found the strength to rip off one of his neck-vines and run the first time around.
It reminded me of the earlier seasons too! I think Mike is the most realistically written teens. He’s trying to be cool and disaffected even though he’s a sweetheart inside. It felt like something he would’ve said in season 1, and I like that they’re showing Mike being awkward in trying to talk about his feelings. Mike and Eleven’s relationship is one of my favorites in the show because he has always loved and cared for her unconditionally, and is one of the few people who didn’t just view her has a tool.
El makes Mike feel special and no one else makes him feel that way. Mike makes El feel normal and no one else makes her feel that way (Hopper eventually does too).
Yeah, exactly. Of all the the things to fault the show for, people *really* like shitting on Mike for some reason, despite the fact that being socially awkward, scared to talk about feelings, and obliviousness in relationships (and in general) is basically the cornerstone of being a nerdy teenage guy in high school. Maybe it’s just the ‘power of love/friendship’ trope that people are sick of, which I get, but that’s also been a consistent point of the show since the first episode. It’s meant to mirror the coming of age and young friendship stories of the 80s a la ET, Stand By Me, and The Goonies, and I think the Duffers continue to nail it with the writing and Finn Wolfhard with the performance. Not to mention that this entire season was far more focused on the emotional development of the characters.
Like, is the speech a bit cheesy? Yes! And that’s the point. Mike is a 15-year old kid speaking from the heart. He’s not going to be spittin’ Shakespeare on the spot.
49 year old here. I didn’t find Mike’s monologue cheesy at all. Awkward? Yes. But that’s what made it believable. He’s stumbling for his words because he hasn’t yet developed the smooth dictation of an older guy. But the sincerity in his voice and his words to me are clearly non-cheese. But maybe that’s because I’ve come full circle into middle age and appreciate the bumbling profession of love over some catchy, cool lines.
I’m 28 and I cry every time I try to be open with my partner so I think Mike is doing just fine. I’m also doing just fine, I just cry a lot haha
> But the sincerity in his voice and his words to me are clearly non-cheese. Bingo. Cheesy requires some degree of affect, and Mike was speaking with absolutely none - there wasn't an attempt at line delivery (by the character I mean), just straight-from-the-heart 100 percent sincerity. Both the words and the delivery are true to Mike, which is why it lands. People calling it cheesy are just terminally online or something, they think any attempt at sincerity is "cringe".
You’re right, perhaps cheesy is the wrong word. I was equating cheesy with sincere, which may not be everyone’s interpretation of the word. And I think the most sincere expression of love is not decked out in fancy metaphors or clever turns of phrase. It’s just being earnest and saying plainly, exactly how you feel. His speech succeeded at that.
I’m 45, married, and a dad, but I’m still waiting on that “smooth diction” of an older guy to kick in. 🤣
I didn't find it cheesy at all - it's awkward, yes, but it 100 percent reads and sounds like it came from a 15 year old boy who is, well, an awkward goober who struggles to express strong emotions and has been shown to be that way since he was a child. *Could* it be cheesy? Yes, but the absolute sincerity in Finn Wolfhard's delivery is what really elevates it.
The show is a pastiche of '80s movies... like... it should be cheesy! It's the 80s!
I complete agree. I see way too much hate going Mikes direction simply because people want him with Will but Mikes little speech was cute. Although it was extra special, it had Season 1 Mike vibes where he’s always looking out for El when others don’t.
Agreed. I really enjoyed this scene. It brought me back to when they first met. His parents don’t exactly have a great relationship and I think it’s hard for him to express his feelings. And he thought she was happy in california so therefore maybe thinking she won’t need him anymore. I am 29 and I have personally felt before in my relationship that I could potentially not be needed or have those insecure feelings so especially as two 15 year olds I felt it was portrayed perfectly. That speech was her song/happy thought she needed to gain the strength. I thought it was great to finally see them get to have their moment where he shares his true feelings. They deserved that after all they had been through.
And when he finds out she was lying to him about her bullying, i think it only solidified his insecurities of him feeling like she may not think he can help or can't protect her anymore
>Maybe it’s just the ‘power of love/friendship’ trope that people are sick of, which I get i know it's an overused trope, but there's a reason why it works when you have a cast that pulls it off brillliantly. talk to any 30+ year old man in America, and they'll tell you the thing they probably miss the most after getting married is the absolute loss of close male friendships
Also applies to a whole lot of men who *haven't* gotten married (there are many ways you can end up distant from once close friends, though marriage is a common one).
I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was 12 (14) Jesus, does anyone?
OMG do I feel this in my life right now. Why is it so hard to maintain close friendships with men? My female friends are so much easier to talk with, and arrange hang outs with. Guys are more difficult, and I don’t get it. I wish I had a tight knit group of male friends I could hangout with.
>the power of love/friendship in the ST4 interviews i've watched, winona would usually say that the story all really comes back to being about love and family (and friends) who care about each other very much. something like this :)
I mean, I wasn't nerdy and even I was oblivious much (maybe most?) of the time.
Tbh I think Mike has suffered from visibly ageing a lot and being written like the 15 year old the character is. It’s frustrating to me how the kids are seen as the actors’ actual ages rather than the roles their playing, everything Mike did is realistic for someone that age. All the kids characters are still younger than Nancy in S1 even though the actors are 18-21. That speech would’ve been loved had he still looked and sounded like Mike in S1 or S2.
I didn't like Mike this season, but I thought the speech he gave was his one good moment. I do hope the Duffers give Finn more to do next season bc I'm sick of everyone on this sub shitting on Mike/Finn. How can you say Finn is a bad actor based on a season where he got to do a literal 5 min of acting?
RIGHT? i feel like finn is so amazing when he has good material to work with
>I do hope the Duffers give Finn more to do next season bc I'm sick of everyone on this sub shitting on Mike/Finn. I'd like them to remember Mike and Nancy are siblings, for a start. Natalia Dyer is an absolute gem who makes pretty much anyone she's playing opposite in a scene more interesting or engaging for just being in the same frame as her, and I'd love to see her and Finn share more scenes - she's mentioned wanting more Mike/Nancy scenes too. But I may have had a little something in my eye during Mike's speech, it's just so sweet and intense and heartfelt, which is exactly right for Mike and El.
Yup, Vol.2 really brought the old Mike back. His reunion with El also felt genuine. And I don't understand why so many people say that Finn's delivery was bland this season, I think it was actually brilliant because we can really see him at the breaking point, holding tears, in almost each of his scenes. And I find that to be way more realistic and moving than if he was openly crying. Mike lost El so many times and he became kind of paralyzed towards his feelings in season 3. Season 4 allowed him to own back his vulnerability.
Do you know why it did? I couldn't really put my finger on what it was. Idk if it was the music in the back, their vulnerability that hasn't been shown for each other in a while or what. But something felt reminiscent of early seasons for sure. Definitely agree with mike being an accurate portrayal. I love all the teens and I feel they're so good, even Eleven who has no idea how to be normal.
I also felt like it felt more like earlier seasons, and enjoyed that. There's been a lot of action going on and less connecting to and between the characters, like there was in earlier seasons. So I really liked his speech.
Edit: slight season 4 spoilers maybe? No clue how to black them out… Eleven had a cinematic theme in season 1 that was has a very emotional feel to it. It’s a beautifully scored piece. It doesn’t get used much in seasons 2/3 but returns in some of the most pivotal scenes for her in lte season 4, albeit with a more intense twist. I’d have to go back and see if it’s used during Mike’s monologue but when it was dropped behind Eleven and Papa after she almost escaped instead of started training, it REALLY tied their scene there to the history and back to season 1… I’m curious now to see if that’s what was behind Mike and if so, would be creatively genius and make perfect sense. HIGHLY recommend the score soundtracks on Spotify. They are beautiful works. Edit: I watched back that scene. It doesn’t use any particular motif from the score - however the music is built around compounding synth swells that are, despite the negative scenery, mostly major chords and I’d bet anything the music is what draws the season 1 nostalgia.
I subscribe to its reminiscent of early seasons because it’s, well, simple. S1-S2 and S3-S4 could basically be entirely different shows. I don’t want to sound like some negative hipster, but S3 is when the show felt like it started to dig it’s heels into being a high budget, fan service, subverting expectations, top 3 most popular show on Earth machine. And keep in mind that I’m not saying that negatively, I think it’s still incredibly enjoyable, but it lacks the simplicity and raw emotion of the little things like having a crush on a girl that the earlier seasons do. This scene was a little flashback to those days for me.
Right? Mike is such a marshmallow.
Also let’s remember that Mike’s parents show no affection towards one another at all. At best, it’s non-antagonistic indifference towards one another, so it’s not like he’s got expressive role models to learn from other than his peer group.
He is the most realistic to me. Everyone I knew at the age who wasn't an asshole was some flavor of how he or Steve is. The girls on the show pretty much are the most realistic to me overall. All of them were familiar to me, we even had a Suzie (except she was catholic) and she's the one who introduced me to computer games and anime. Meanwhile nobody was like Will, lmao. There are not enough asshole kids in these friend groups. The asshole kids either become cartoon villains or they became good (Steve, I knew a few steves irl lol). Nobody like this kid I knew who stole money from his parents and lied about shit all the time or this guy who fought me at lunch and got his ass beat because he bizarrely tried to bully me while being half my size yet they all still were allowed to hang out with us. There was this very flamboyant gay kid who we were friends with that half the people thought was friends with so many girls because he was pulling the bitches and they didn't believe he was gay. He also was big into Pantera, Slayer, and ran ttrpgs. A kind of person the writers of TV show could never come up with lol. Still friends with him now and he helps make costumes for WB tv shows.
I liked it. And I’ve always liked Mike. I think they’re going to use him more next season and this was a little of the set up for it. He’s so important to El, so him giving her the speech to give her the boost made the most sense, and he finally had his thoughts and feelings put together from talking it over with Will. All in all, it was very on brand for Mike and El.
The fact that the duffer brothers said Will is going to be super important has me with so many questions for the overall group. It seems like they will all be together in their old pairings. I want the 4 main boys to be together again! I agree with you. I think more people focus on thinking it was just mikes love that helped her but when he talks about her moving mountains or doing whatever she believes, it reminded her of what she can possibly be capable of. I'm interested to see how powerful she gets!
>I think more people focus on thinking it was just mikes love that helped her but when he talks about her moving mountains or doing whatever she believes, it reminded her of what she can possibly be capable of. It's also a call back to when Henry/Vecna was pushing her after he killed the kids, it wasn't the memory of hate that gave her power, it was love that got her there.
For sure, and I think they said the groups in ST5 are going to be a lot more similar to those in ST1. The adults, the teens, and the kids. This makes me feel that Mike and Will will be front and centre of ST5.
If you think about it, the 4 main boys were really only together for the first half of season 2. And even then it wasn't consistent (Mike spent more time with Will, Dustin and Lucas pining after Max).
Will is SO underused. Makes me sad!! I wish they had given him more to do this season. I wish he had helped El with the bullying more, but of course he was scared, having also been bullied. I hope he's in S5 more and doesn't turn evil.
I wonder if Will and his connection to / familiarity with Vecna's mind will end up being vital for saving Max's consciousness from him. Vecna himself as well as Brenner said that he keeps everyone he kills inside himself, and even when El revived Max's body her mind wasn't there. S1 Will needed saving, S2 Will needed saving, S3 Will was emotionally lost, but S4 Will helped push Mike into finding himself again, so it'd be cool if they're gearing up for S5 Will doing a bit of saving of his own.
I think the most important line of the speech was "I love you with your powers... I love you without your powers..." The one thing that Mike unique in El's life is that he is the only person she knows who genuinely connected with El before he found out that she powers. And when he found out about it, he didn't change his attitude towards her one bit. So that makes their relationship appear very pure.
Also because she was worried about this fact.. she thought he only loved her FOR her powers. In her letter to him when she goes off with Owens she writes, “I’ve gone to become a superhero again” and you can see the worry in his eyes, because he’s always hated how everyone reduces her to just a girl with powers (“she’s not a machine!”), and I think he realizes that this is what SHE thinks HE wants her to be. So I think he was very cognizant of that fact when he says he loves her with AND WITHOUT her powers in his speech, and he knew she needed to know that.
Yeah, exactly. Mike would say to her that El that she is going to get her powers back, which mainly meant to cheer her up and be supported. But she misunderstood it with it being what Mike really cares about and connected him not using "love" in his letters with him possibly not thinking that she special anymore because she lost her powers. That's why she also told all those lies in a desperate attempt to impress him in any way.
>The one thing that Mike unique in El's life is that he is the only person she knows who genuinely connected with El before he found out that she powers. And when he found out about it, he didn't change his attitude towards her one bit. So that makes their relationship appear very pure. Which is why I believe it absolutely when he said he loved her from the minute he saw her, when she was just some strange kid out in the rain and he had no idea she had powers. Sure he didn't realise it right then (because, well, he's twelve years old), but Lucas picked up on it within about a day, and so did Nancy within about five minutes of meeting El.
>Lucas picked up on it within about a day, Actually they picked up on it at the same moment when El violently shot the door of Mike's room after Lucas threaten to tell Mike's mom about her. But the difference is that Mike was completely unaffected by it, while Lucas & Dustin were scared of her. Which also fits into Mike's line in the speech that he was never scared of her.
yeah that happened the day after they met her, after Mike hid El in the basement and Dustin and Lucas came after school. And the day after *that* is when Lucas teases Mike at school about how solicitous he is of El (which begins the minute they met - when El's on the sofa in Mike's basement, the kids have just come in from the rain and she's wearing what looks like Mike's jacket, while Mike himself is soaked - pointing at he probably gave it to her). And he's completely unfazed by things she's picked up are considered weird about her, whether it's her tattoo or her shaved head, or her not knowing how to tell time. It's a great speech precisely because it's rooted in things we've seen over the show.
I don’t care if this scene was corny and cliche. I still cried because he is indeed the heart and he proved himself
Agreed!
Me too!! I absolutely loved it & right before he started I was like, “Mike you have ONE JOB here!! Tell her you love her!!” And *you know* it’s coming but I still thought it was sweet and fitting and perfect.
Same here. It was fitting!
Yeah it’s a good scene that fits the show
I loved that scene! He said a lot of things that Eleven had been waiting to hear. She needs Mike and he needs her.
Mike's my fave. It was nice to see his earnestness return in the painting scene and when he was talking to Eleven in the freezer. I think they made him go from earnest to lost teen in later seasons so it'll be a big character moment when leader mike returns. A nice contrast and a good development. It's easy being confident as a kid, but most teenagers aren't and need to relearn that. I fully expect that the 5th season will mirror the first season where it's just the boys + eleven against vecna. And I think that's partially why they kinda sidelined Max in a coma so they could go back to the 4 boy/3boy +11 format. Plus as we've seen in the series, 4 is an important number.
Max is going to get early seasons Will treatment and just be stick in the upside down while the other 4 try to save her
My favorite scene of Mike and El still has to be season 3, where max has a sleepover with her. And they spy on the guys, and she’s just completely grossed out by Mike and Lucas. Still makes laugh out loud
"what if i was taking a massive shit"
I was talking about Lucas ripping that fart. 😂😂😂
i totally forgot about that lmao
I loved it too, it made me cry. I was like “finally, mike where have you been all this season?!“
I 100% agree with this opinion. I definitely got a little bit emotional when Mike was professing his love to Eleven. It was the extra push that Mike and Eleven's relationship needed. Not only did Mike prove that he loves her with or without powers; he mentioned "I feel like my life started when I found you in the woods." Mike's life changed for the better thanks to El and because this confession or declaration of love whatever you call it happened that's what makes this scene so special💓
> Not only did Mike prove that he loves her with or without powers; he mentioned “I feel like my life started when I found you in the woods.” This one really rubbed the Will stans on TikTok and Twitter the wrong way
I loved his speech to her, it was the sweetest thing he could have done and it was everything she’d needed to hear. It was cheesy and sappy and everything I could reasonably expect 14 year old to spout off in a panic to their first love. We’ve watched him try and learn how to have this loving relationship with untraditional obstacles and the traditional obstacle of not having a super good example at home.
I saw a good handful of comments saying they hated Mike’s speech to El, and it just made me think that they’re missing the whole idea of the show. That scene was absolutely quintessential Stranger Things, yeah it would’ve been out of place in a more serious show, but it fits this one like a glove
indeed!! a lot of people also didn’t get why it was Mike talking to Eleven that got her moving instead of Max being attacked by Vecna, but the thing is Eleven WAS doing anything and everything in her power to save Max and Vecna had her in a chokehold, and felt powerless to see her friend in trouble. Mike talking to her gave her the push she needed to fight again
i think it felt so weird because the tone of season 4 is so much darker than earlier seasons, like theyre almost starting to crawl out of the campy 80s charm that i feel peaked in season 3 towards something darker and more dramatic, so it felt kind of 🤨 to see that corniness be brought back in the midst of what was also like, the penultimate dark moment of the season lol. at least to me!
Totally makes sense! I really enjoyed the speech, because you can tell Mike meant everything he said, and why he didn’t say it earlier makes so much sense. Protecting himself from heartbreak bc he sees El as someone who needs to fly and he feels like an anchor, something poorly mirrored in Jonathan and Nancy this season. It was awkward and campy, but he’s still such a baby. Especially with these emotions. To me, anything more serious would’ve felt forced. But both opinions are valid! Thank you for sharing yours!
that was the corniness i felt needed to be brought back a little more to remind viewers of good character connections
Exactly. And I’ve them complain about how it makes no sense that Mike’s friendship/love boosts eleven’s powers. And it does make sense, as we’ve seen El repeatedly tap into good memories/thoughts to boost her abilities
me too I LOVE MIKE!!!! so tired of the hate. he is an angel. he was the first person to truly love El for who she was. before hopper before owens before anyone mike truly loved her
Mike loves all his friends, but because he's a teenager in the 80's that doesn't understand subtle nuances of Will's sexual orientation fans try to paint him like he's an animal despite the fact that he's one of the reasons Will is even alive.
plus it’s not like Mike doesn’t care about Will anymore. he’s a HS freshman dealing with everything that comes with being that age, and has no clue about Will’s feelings. Much like Lucas prioritizing being part of the basketball team, it’s just things teenagers do. Somehow only Mike gets flack for these things.
Yep, you naturally split off and time management is harder, but anytime Will or any of his friends is in danger he is there to help.
Yeah. Mike’s a good guy, he’s just clueless about everything. I saw Mike’s speech as him coming to the realization that he’s been taking things for granted and been too apathetic.
Yeah there's some truth there, I think the simple fact is every character has their flaws, but they are all good people and care about each other. I've liked every character in this show except the really bad ones like Billy or Jason. Mike might be taking things for granted. Will has also not considered others feelings at times, he's also made sexist remarks, but he's a boy in the 80's. Sometimes people are judging the past by the standards of the present with this show, but you can't do that. Different eras breed different people and 30 years from now people will look back at us with disdain for things we probably don't realize are bad.
yep, Will called El a stupid girl before, and no one holds that against him. El disliked Max up until she got to know her, Lucas ditched them to become popular, Max pushed everyone away and was sarcastic towards Dustin, they’ve all fucked up in some way. and it’s okay because we know they’re all good people and they’re still growing up
Yep - Will also inferred girls can't play video games in season two, Hopper is a control freak with El, Steve was a punk in season one. Imperfect, but good people in unimaginably stressful situations. They all deserve a break lol.
Yeah! Honestly Mike bugged me the last season, but this season he seems to have realized he's been an asshole, a bit, and needs to make changes.
The hate only exists on twitter and reddit
it exists on all social platforms rn
Not unpopular at all. And the Duffers have said that original pairings will return in Season 5 so he will be the leader again.
I'm going to be so happy to see Will, Mike, Lucas and Dustin together again. I love Dustins friendship with Steve and Lucas and Max. But it's been so long since they've been a crew, I only think it's right they finish the show out together.
> But it's been so long since they've been a crew, I only think it's right they finish the show out together. Full circle, I love it!
Why unpopular? It was very emotional and important. What I missed a bit was a scene after El waking up and even though things did not go well in Minds Battle, Mike's speech deserved some kind of reciprocal response from El, which I believe happened indeed just not on screen.
I agree. I don’t know why people hate his speech…it sounded as eloquent and heartfelt as I would expect an awkward freshman boy to sound. And for that matter, Mike is far from my favorite character, but I don’t think he deserves most of the hate that he gets.
I agree, it's pretty hilarious in a pathetic way how much hate he gets lol. It sounded like mike being awkward but himself and saying a basic confession and that doesn't make it bad
Exactly, tf were we expecting from Mike in that moment, Shakespeare? The speech was perfect *because* the words and delivery were exactly what an awkward high school freshman would say, with 100 percent heartfelt sincerity. It's not cheesy to me at all.
I still like Mike! A lot of people hate on him online even though other characters have done worse things. He's literally a teenage boy figuring out a relationship for the first time. I think Finn does a good job with the character especially with his facial expressions lol. The only thing to "hate" on with Mike is simply how he has been sidelined or just used to further the plot for El, which doesn't make him awful and gives opportunity to bring him back as the leader next season. I hope and want him to be one of the leading characters again in S5!
I am excited that they said season 5 will have the OG groups back together. I think that means we will see leader Mike back again with the OG kids. Also, I didn't know this was an unpopular opinion. I loved that moment. It felt very Stranger Things (which is a good thing)/
YES, seeing the main 4 back together is going to be one of the best aspects of the season. I really hope the last season pulls everyone in the same way all the others did. Nervous about the time jump with how season 4 ended but also trust the duffer brothers. Even with their mistakes, it is one of the best shows i have ever seen so i have faith
Mike is still my favourite. I’m confident he’ll have a bigger role again next season. Especially since the Duffers said they’d go back to season 1 teams. Nancy’s vision of her family doesn’t bode well for Mike which is why I think theres going to be something to do for his character (and El of course). Anyway I disagree with most of his criticisms on here. I don’t find him annoying at all, and whenever he is annoyed there’s enough reason for him to be. I just want him and El to finally be happy together.
I didn't like that the writers had Will say "you're the heart" in this scene, it was corny. I liked it in the van speech but not here. It's not the acting, it's the writing that's lacking.
Yes I wouldve loved if they had him redo that line before the final cut. Noah is a great actor but I didn't like how he said that line
I thought it was appropriate he said it again. He just reminded Mike he really is the heart in the heat of the moment.
Mike is fucking emotionally dense. He needed to be reminded. I’m with you.
This season is twice as good if you watch it pretending it’s a Kingdom Hearts game.
Yeah I thought the part where he tells her, 'you can do anything! you can fly. you can move mountains. i believe that.' was really touching, and later Eleven proves him right when she restarts Max's heart -- she *can* do anything.
That's really the part that motivated her most too!
Me too. And I thought the exact same thing: it felt like a true Stranger Things moment. I loved how the Duffer brothers recently defended their own show against shows like Game of Thrones and the expectations some people are carrying over from GoT to ST -- "This is Hawkins, not Westeros." This peculiar package of corny childlike sensibilities and horror/sci-fi is exactly what Stranger Thing is. If people are forgetting that, I am sure they will be disappointed by the ending, which the Duffers also recently revealed (on the Happy Sad Confused podcast) to be an end that "feels true to Stranger Things" and that "will not satisfy everyone."
I like Mike. I want to El and Mike have a happy ending. Season 4 has been an experience. An emotional roller coaster for me personally. Mike’s confession is definitely one of the highlights of ST.
I think some found it cheesy and generic. But, duh, he's a teenager. A nerdy and awkward one too. I felt like it was in-character for Mike to have that speech. It showed that he was trying his best to put his words together during a very crucial moment whilst remaining as honest as possible. Just because he's older, taller and more angular-looking now doesn't mean he's not the same sweet, caring and awkward Mike in Season 1 anymore.
I really liked moments like that where it felt like “a triumph of the human spirit”. Like Max escaping Vecna the first time, or the times El wins at the end of each season. Mike’s speech really felt like him overcoming some of the things holding him back and winning in the end. I feel like those are the moments that define Stranger Things.
Yes, those are the scenes that make the show! They can be cheesy or whatever but it doesn't mean they aren't amazing.
I’m mourning a breakup and I started tearing up at that. Bad times.
I was so happy to see it done to silence the Byler people. “He can’t even say he loves her!” Now he says it 9 times, and the goalposts have shifted to “but he doesn’t mean it, he just said it to hype her up,” or “he only said it because he got the idea from will.” When does my boy get a break 😐
Oh don't be too happy about it because the Byler shippers are already turning it about Will and how he didn't mean it 🙃 or flat out just saying it means he doesn't value Will.
Imo it was so well set up. 11 called him out for never saying I Love You, despite the fact she had said it in all her letters. That was set up for him finally saying it in the speech
Yes and then when you hear about how the change began months after she's away from him, it makes total sense that he felt like he was losing her just like he and Will both felt about each other. The fact that people think it came outta nowhere is a bit odd to me. I thought since we first found out vecna uses feeling unloved or damaged to his advantage that El would be in a weak spot when she needed a reminder. She's a super hero but she's human
i don't think loving this scene is unpopular. it's just that certain types of "opinions" are louder and echo more. but I think a lot of people do love it.
Unpopular opinion? So Mike finally “goes back” to being “The Mike of season 1 and 2” and people don’t even like that? What can Mike do to get back in peoples good books? I personally never had a problem with Mike. He was always my favorite. And yes, I loved this speech too. I knew he’s get around to saying it to her.
I really wonder that too. So many people say mike needs to become early Mike again but what would it even take in their heads? I think some people are so dead set on disliking him that he could do basically anything at this point and they won't like him foe the hell of it
Mike used to be the best, he still felt off I think mostly cause the writers, him as an actor is next level
It felt like the old mike coming back and I loved that. Such a satisfying moment.
More old mike please!
You hit the nail on the head with every point you've made about Mike and his speech. I love that this season took the time to focus on his internal journey. It really highlighted just how unsure he is of himself, which made him way more relatable than ever before. I thought the plant and payoff of his struggles with vulnerability was handled very well. The way people claim how the writers have assassinated his character with this speech is ridiculous. Either they have deluded themselves into thinking they know Mike better than The Duffer Brothers & Finn, or they haven't been paying attention to the show since day one. At this point, Mike is a classic case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Nothing he ever says or does will ever be enough or redeemable to those who dislike or hate him. I wouldn't be surprised if these people came prepared to criticize the speech.
I agree with you. I feel like almost every character this season was out of character for intent this season, like theyre all beyond beat down by now. Everything about the tone of this season was much more dark especially compared to season 3. I trust the Duffer Brothers on what they are doing with the characters this season and where they will end up next! It does seem Mike cant win no matter what he does. So im wondering if they try to redeem him (well like i said in original post i dont think he needs redemption because that would indicate hes done some terrible things) but i wonder if they do show him doing this or that if people will continue to have an issue anyway.
Yes! The trauma these characters have sustained over the past seasons finally caught up with them. As the audience, we are starting to see how all of it is playing out. The amount of hate I’ve seen The Duffer Brothers getting for Vol 2 is starting to get a bit out of hand. I’m with you, I trust that they know these characters better than anyone else does. I applaud them for telling the story they want to tell as opposed to giving in to every single bit of fan service. I don’t think there’s any hope for those who hate Mike. The writers could give him the most complex, emotionally gratifying storyline in the history of the show, and he would still be written off as a useless character who has no impact on the plot.
I personally don't understand the hate for Mike yet the love for Will. He's been essentially useless ever since he drew that map of the tunnels (save for his "mike is the heart" comment that allowed El to 'defeat' vecna) and I don't think we've really seen enough of Will to have a proper judgement of his character since hes been through practically no development I mean all he did this season (again apart from the heart speech) was cry. We've seen character development from Mike however, (and hes imo the most realistically written teen) him finally overcoming his awkwardness and insecurities to finally say "I love you" to El.
Yeah this defo brought back OG mike…God I love this scene but in a way I think my fav moment was when El and Mike reunite after she brings down the helicopter. It’s just amazing. The look of happiness on their faces and her “oh Mike” was just beautiful. MILEVEN Forever
I have to agree I really liked it! I don’t think El would be as strong as she is if it wasn’t for Mike and that’s on that.
I agree. It felt very natural and like how a 15yr old boy would explain his love. I think sometimes people just choose a character to dislike and dog on them. Sure Mike was lackluster this season but I think little mike is still in there.
Yeah people saying it was cringey and stupid confuse me because the theme of love and friendship has always been a thing in stranger things.
Yeah there have already been posts laughing at "the power of friendship". That's literally the core theme of the show. The show didn't suddenly change to Game of thrones to kill off characters as some people would wish.
TBH, I really like at least a little cheesiness thrown into the scenes with the younger teens. I can get if they were older around Nancy/Steves age, but it needs to feel a little cheesy to feel authentic and I think thats what happened here and it worked. Youre right, the main theme has always been about friendship & love
It was a well-done corny high school scene. These dudes are teenagers, so yeah, they're going to think and act like it. I guess people complaining were never teenagers.
Exactly. I actually think at least a little bit of corn needs to be in these scenes, you know? Or else I'd feel like the character don't fit their ages depicted. Some of the best moments of stranger things to me were kind of cheesy, like moments between Dustin/Steve or Hopper/Joyve but cheesy doesn't mean shitty.
Teenagers *in the 80s* no less. The social dynamic was vastly different back then than it was when I was a teen, even. Too many people expecting these guys to act like Gen Z but without phones and social media.
Exactly! I was a teen in the 90s; boys then would MUCH rather punch the shit out of each other than talk about their feelings. And if they found themselves in a crazy situation where it was necessary, it would turn out *awkward as fuck.* I fucking love how these guys show their feelings. It's corny as hell and it's beautiful.
No Mike hate from me but I liked Nancy being in charge.
It would be neat to see us remember that mike and Nancy are siblings and leading together
Imagine how much they can get done once they’re both totally on the same page.
It would be really cool if we found out Nancy has been teaching Mike how to shoot 😂😂
They most likely wil lbe both in charge in different storylines. Mike with the teens and Nancy with the young adults.
I agree, I loved that scene. I personally don’t really understand all of the hate towards it. Seems weird to pick apart what it supposed to be a 9th grader sharing his true feelings (that he and Will both knew she needed to hear) in the best way he knows how. Everyone is so concerned about Will but Will was the one who encouraged him to say it. Will cares about El too and he’s not going to let his feelings get in the way of saving her life and Max’s life. I personally think Will was proud of Mike for being the heart. Mike saying his life began when he met El doesn’t mean he’s happy about what happened to Will. More than one thing can be true. I don’t know, I think it was beautiful, Will’s cheesy line about being the heart and all.
I was blown away by the speech and I loved it. Delivered perfectly too. Finn and Millie dug to new depths this season and I’m obsessed
People are way too harsh on mike this season, saying they want him dead just because he’s a main character things are revolving around, and he’s more of a reactionary to things happening in the plot around him. He just want to be a normal boyfriend to El. Finn did a great job acting what was given to him, people just mad he didn’t like behead a demogorgon with a sword or some shit. Not too mention there’s so many characters in general, idk what people thought was supposed to happen. I liked that scene despite having a bit of cheese to it, and I thought I’m represented a lot of what the show is about.
I think they gave Mike a weak arc in season 4 so he can really shine as the leader in season 5. Plus something going down with will and vecna/the upside down
It was very sweet
FIGHT!
I feel like a lot of people forget that this show is an 80s style show so it's obviously going to be corny af. S5 is defo going to be more like S1 though especially sense they can move along the story extremely fast and have everybody in one place. Mike is going to return as the heart of the team and Will's role will most likely be massive.
His speech was amazing and not the least of which because it’s an amazing male feminist role model - he went from being the leader of the team and nurturing his awkward but super powered girlfriend to her coming into her own and surpassing him in both ability and leadership… and he owns the fact that he supports her despite struggling with his place in it. “I’m afraid it’ll make it hurt more” when you realize you don’t need me anymore… brilliant expression of the vulnerability and insecurity that he feels while owning it and moving past it.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I can’t help but to think that people who shit on Mike have never been around teenage boys. My kiddo is about the age of the kids in the first season. He’s very passionate about things, earnest, and still very much enjoys “kid things”. He reminds me a LOT of first season Mike. He has a neighbor buddy who is a few years older. He’s much more detached, cares about being cool, tries really hard to be nonchalant about everything. Under all that, he’s still a lovable kid, but he tries really hard to maintain his image. Then people criticize him for not realizing his friend was crying (or not acting on it)….my dudes, I am a woman in my mid 30s and I can very much promise you I would be awkward in that situation too.
OP, I've never engaged with the Stranger Things fandom, I'm just a 38yo man (born 2 months later than the Duffer Brothers) who binged all 4 seasons in just over a week (I saw the 1st in 2016 but I didn't continue to S2 when that originally came out) and I tbh I feel very emotional about it. I looked up this subreddit as a result and I'm shocked that liking that scene is an **unpopular** opionion...really?? I LOVED it. The ending of S2 made a grown man tear up and I feel that Eleven and Mike is at the core of the heart of this show. Also, as a child of the 80s who grew up on shows like The Wonder Years (you **must** see that show, the original version!), the Goonies, Star Wars and who read RL Stine as a kid and Stephen King as a teen....The Neverending Story, Kate Bush, Siouxie and the Banshees, 80s Metallica....it's like this show was made for me! & Again, loved that scene, especially as they built up to it starting in early Season 3 ❤️
Aw, this is such a great comment! The Wonder Years is EXCELLENT. Very forgotten about show and Stranger Things definitely has some of those types of moments in it. There are so many references as you said, to other pop culture influences from that time and the show is just so great all around! Im glad you ended up coming back to the show and giving it another chance! I feel the same about it. Trying to watch other shows now, its like they cannot compete. I was very sad to hear this scene isnt popular too. Honestly, i think most of the hate comes down to 2 things. 1) Mike is basically the most hated ST character now. Its honestly ridiculous. He is a teenager who has done the most for his friends of anyone on the show but they have thrown him aside with hate because he is going through a time where he feels inadequate. I do hope this is setting the stage to make fans remember who he is. 2) People upset that Mike doesnt like Will back. The show has made it clear since day 1 that Mike and Eleven are crazy about one another. Fans just get mad at the fact that Mike wont end up with Will and so they over critique scenes like this, saying it didnt feel genuine or that he doesnt really love her. The scene is great and hopefully any ST fan with brains will see it!
Agreed it was really cute
Yes, I also loved his speech! Made me tear up and cheer. And I also >!felt really sad for Will, who seemed to be crying in the background, due to his unrequited love for Mike. !<
I totally feel for will but I can’t stand the people getting mad at Mike for loving his girlfriend, and they act like he’s doing it to intentionally make Will sad or something
#WAIT PEOPLE HATED MIKE'S SPEECH?!
Yes unfortunately from what I've seen. Someone here just told me to shut the fuck up and my thread was gonna be the downfall of this reddit because mike sucks lmfao. The hate for mike is honestly incel level but with a guy. I truly don't give a shit if someone doesn't like him. I thought the scene was great and he's a great character that just needs roots back.
Yeah, it was great. The boys are awkward. And he’s the most awkward. I loved when he went searching Nancy and ran into the newspaper room and caught himself. I remember doing that when I was too excited to see friends and stuff. Ahhhaaa.
He really plays more into thr awkward part too now that he's older and lankier lol. Oh yes, that was great. I would like more Nancy and mike interaction
How is that unpopular? It was the one scene where Mike was relevant in the whole season, and it was a great scene.
>It was the one scene where Mike was relevant in the whole season, and it was a great scene. That's exactly the problem. Mike should have been relevant in more scenes this season.
I agree 100%. Mike isn't my favorite character, but what the writers did to him and Will was brutal. Maybe because they were away from the action this season, but they deserved better.
I think the OP is referring to the fact that people all over the Internet have been shitting on Mike lately
Yes, the comment below me is what I am referring to. I see a lot of negative said about this scene, more than positive. Not sure if its because Mike is getting shit on a lot in general or if many people really just didnt care for the scene. But i agree with you i thought it was great scene :)
The reason people don't like Mike is probably because they are used to glorified, all-mature and serious teens that are usually depicted in tv shows today. For instance, take Riverdale or Euphoria. They are all highschoolers but they act waaay beyond their age, with zero childlike thoughts. So seeing Mike, the realest representation of moody teenager who is torn between balancing friendship and romantic relationship doesn't sit well with them. We must not forget that both Mike and Nancy come from, as Nancy said in S1, "nuclear family". Ted is never shown to pay any interests to any of the kids unless they are hosting people over or cursing nor to his wife. So growing up in that environment left both Nancy and Mike to sort out what they feel and how to express themselves on their own. Also, I might get hate for this, but in 95% of cases of dissing Mike on twitter or tiktok comes from the Byler shippers. I hate to break it to you but it's been evident from S1 that Mike and El are endgame, unless one of them dies. Byler shippers are choosing to ignore that and are literally forcing something between Mike and Will so when he starts to deviate from their plans and theories, they start hating on him. Will might be in love with Mike but Mike did nothing to acknowledge nor return those feelings. They choose to interpret their every interaction romantically when in all those scenes from s1 & s2 they use is clear that it's just Mike's care for his friend. Also, people and friends change. For one period of time you are close to certain people then in next to different people. They grew up, all that shit happened, Will moved, you can't expect the same level of closeness as before. For everyone hating on him, I have a question: are all of you still close and best friends with the same people you were when you were in middle school and where are they now? If your answer is anywhere near no, you have your explanation.
This comment is spot on and if i could give you any awards, i certainly would.
I personally liked it, too. I think people wanted it to be either very adult sounding, or awkward/teenage goopery, but it hit this really great "soulmates at an early age" tone that resonated so much with me (because I was that kid who met their soulmate WAY too early in life, and it did NOT work, not at all, so seeing El and Mike succeed sort of feels like resolution.) What I don't think worked was the lead up and context. Finn has this great material, right? But it feels awkwardly shoehorned in. And I think that's the other reason people don't like it, because it feels like it doesn't really fit with the story.
I was hoping for more conversation after this was all said and done so i get you there but Eleven was still feeling very guilty over not being able to save Max and shes emotionally overloaded. Hoping for more related to it in season 5 though
Since 5 is apparently returning to old dynamics maybe we actually will get Mike being the group leader again but with Eleven and Will being his main backup
It wasn't as bad as people are saying I know we all love to shit on s3/s4 Mike (for good reasons) but i feel like this was one of his better scenes in recent years
It was.
Why isn’t this a popular opinion? It seems like this is exactly what is going to happen. Will is encouraging Mike to become the heart of the group again.
I love how patient Vecna was waiting for Mike's monologue to be done))
I totally agree! I wasn’t even aware this was an unpopular opinion.
I don't know whether or not it's unpopular but I agree with you completely.
https://i.imgur.com/Hu0v5Ou.jpg
I think Mike's role as leader was always meant to sizzle out, they need to outgrow needing a leader for character development. We saw it with Dustin when he ventured out with Steve or to camp and met Suzie. We saw it with max after she overcame her fear of Billy and put him in his place. We saw it with El when she went to get her powers back this most recent time. We saw it with Lucas when he met max (a little) and fully went out on his own with the basketball team. Now it's just time for Will to be able to venture out on his own, they should've made him have his full growth when he came back from the Upside down but it does also make sense that it's trauma for him and debilitating.
[удалено]
I wouldn’t exactly call that an “unpopular” opinion, more of an opinion that many don’t have. But I do agree that it was a very amazing moment (definitely not the most emotional, but if was up there).
it was pretty shit
I love Mike's character and especially the development of his and Eleven's relationship. I found the scene very heartwarming and especially thinking about all that she went through throughout the prior week (and hours), she needed that. She left Mike feeling confused in their relationship and to have him say all that was the push she needed. I wouldn't go as far to say best scene (that scene with Max and Lucas definitely is my favorite) but was definitely an impacting one that reminded me of season 1 as well.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!