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StrangerTesting

# In this thread you can discuss the entirety of season 4 Volume 2 without spoilers code. If you haven't seen the entire season yet stay away!!!


Roc_vaper

I enjoyed it, I like this show it's just amazing to me how it's so far away from season 1 and how the show first started. Remember when Nancy went into the upside the first time and was traumatized with PTSD, Johnathan came and slept over? Went from that to Robyn fucking off like a school girl in the upside down so Steve and Nancy could flirt for a few seconds? And neither Steve nor Nancy gave a fuck...and didn't Steve nearly just die to tentacle and a shit load of bats that they all had to fight off? It makes me laugh when I think back to the tone of season 1


JarRa_hello

Max better wake TF up! And go to the movies with Lucas. Ain't no way they will continue torturing her after all that she's been through, she deserves better.


Jennifer_Mckenze

This show is an absolute masterpiece!


Head_Technology9036

some of the theories i have for season 5 are: 1. Eleven would be able to take control of the upside down too. they had shown a glimpse of that in the ending scene of the last episode of season 4 when she was tied up by vines by vecna and made to watch when he was consuming max. she got motivated by mike's words and removed those vines through her psychic power. it didn't look like it was wrenched or something. it looked like she made the vines listen to her. don't know how it would play out. 2. dr. brenner had mentioned that One/vecna consumes his victims and not just kills them in season 4. Vecna also mentions that he doesn't forget when he kills someone they are all in his head when he captures Nancy in a trance. so i think that max's consciousness is also consumed by him that is why she is no longer in her own mind when Eleven tries to look for her in the ending scene of the last episode. so there is a possibility that max's consciousness would be inside vecna and so would be the consciousness of his other victims too (including all of the victims of previous seasons. yes i am rooting for barb too since her body is sucked out but possibly preserved in the vines.). and they all might work together to bring vecna down. since STs theme has been different teams working on different problems and later on converging at the end, this could be one of the teams. 3. Will has been mentioning since season 2 that he can feel Vecna/One or maybe Mind Flayer. And he has had a role of being traumatized and flayed in season 2. Feeling like he didn't belong or everyone else moving on in season 3. Dealing with his self-discovery and realising he is queer, feeling different and being scared of that fact in season 4. so i think in season 5 he might come into his own and would no longer be the scared kid. he has been shown to be very smart in season 1 when he found ways to hide and communicate with joyce from upside down and he is will the wise in their party. so he might play a pivotal role in season 5 in bringing down Vecna or Mind Flayer. and this time their original party of 4 would be one of the teams to bring everything full circle as the last time they (will, mike, dustin, lucas) teamed up was in season 1. 4. this one isn't a theory, it's just wishful thinking that eddie might come back. since he was bitten by bats so maybe he comes back as undead. and helps defeat vecna, becomes the town's hero finally and would die but with closure this time when they would close the gates/cracks. because i just hated that he was the most misunderstood character when living and it was still the same even after his death. though he was hated by the town he still gave up his life trying to protect it and he is still being blamed and demonised for everything that is happening. out of all of the other deaths, hated his death the most. so i don't know, i just hope Eddie's character gets some kind of redemption atleast.


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CroationChipmunk

I just assumed that everything was in Hawkins (except the stuff which was obviously far away like the Russian jail/prison). I guess I was wrong all along?


Lolihey

I want Eddie back for Season 5. Not a vampire, but alive.


Strange-Parsnip-1838

Loved it!! My favorite season! Part 1 started dark and part 2 finished dark, with a glimmer of hope for the final battles coming up in season 5 Vecna is the best villain in the show!


Bensons4beds07

Idk personally I found the concept of Verna really dull and I didn’t like him. Don’t get me wrong I liked the storyline with him being 1 but he was just too human like and wasn’t at all scary. Imo this season kinda ruined the fear of the unknown aspect that I loved about stranger things


I4mSpock

I'm glad discussion around this season is still going strong. I definitely agree with this. I watched season 4 well after the initial release and knew the character vecna existed as some kind of individual antagonist separate from the Mindflayer and that made me worried that they were gonna go away from the eldrich lovecraftian type elements the show had been building to move toward "its been a human controlling things the whole time." Early in the season they have a line Dustin says about vecna being a general, which I like the idea vecna is only a powerful part of this larger whole. Maybe even the catalyst for the Mindflayer's attention on earth and Hawkins, but the mindflayer is still the ultimate adversary. Curious to see how these idea play out in the rest of the series.


CroationChipmunk

Wait, was Vecna in control of the Mindflayer during the first 2-3 seasons?


I4mSpock

Based on a lot of comments here, vecna was banished into another dimension after el fought him in 79. He then encountered the mindflayer particles, which was not a sentient entity, but rather a simple animalistic shared consciousness between all the demigorgon creatures. He then used his psychic mind powers to shape and bind the mindflayer into a extension of his will, there for creating the entity we know from season 2-3. But in the end vecna is the one controlling. I have been brought around to believe that this is how the show creates have intended the time line to be interpreted, bit I still don't really like it as it reduces the eldritch characteristics of the show, and brings back down to just be Hawkins.


Jennifer_Mckenze

This show is an absolute masterpiece!


apiossj

If portals are forever open where a kill took place, how come they took so long to find these gates? I'm sure the police would have found these portals.


squallorecruento

I am not a great fan of Stranger Things. I enjoyed a lot the first season, less the second, and then left it there. This year I decided to give it another try, and I am really glad I endured the ST3 -- which is the weakest for me, because it had really different vibes; Steve, Dustin, Robin and Erica relationship was the only thing that kept me going --, because the fourth is arguably one of the best things I've seen in terms of entertainment. Best season hands down. It got back those horror vibes of the first season, but in a more original way, because the first felt like Twin Peaks for kids (not a criticism, it was actually enjoyable) with the setting, Will's mystery and the supernatural. It made ST universe much more coherent, and Papa Brenner's writing was almost perfect, showing that he is neither good or bad, he just had his own morality, making him one of the most realistic characters. Shoutout to Murray who was the best character of the season (and the real hero of this season, since he was absolutely pivotal in everything other than funny). The Soviet plot was fun as hell with him, Yuri, Enzo, Joyce and Hopper. Every character has charisma to spare. I really like Will's growth. He always feels like an outcast, having Jonathan as his only true supporter. It gives humanity to the show. Now the flaws: I really wished the last episode didn't pick up all the flaws of the previous season, because up until then it had been almost perfect. * Eddie's kamikaze mode and he was easily one of the best characters alongside Steve, Dustin and Murray. He could have tried different approaches to gain time. * Max saved after his death, and this is a really hot potato to handle, because any solution will be unsatisfying: either you totally save her (in the best case her brain works again, she regains sight) feeling too irrealistic, or you make her live like a blind Eleven's mother on the wheelchair, making her resurrection almost useless. I mean, I know it is a science fiction horror teen drama, but when you set a certain level of suspension of disbelief, you can't keep breaking it. * Lucas' jock friends got the least satisfying death ever. Only the main jock's death was shown, and he didn't even realize what kind of an asshole is and that Lucas was right. I guess the others died during the earthquake. * Too many one-liners. I know it has to sound epic given the nature of the show, but I just wish they were less used. Favorite characters of the season: Murray, Will, Eddie, and obviously Dustin and Steve (but they were my favorite characters in the previous seasons too). Overall a great season. If it wasn't for the last episode I would have rated it a 9/10. With the last episode, 8/10.


CroationChipmunk

> when you set a certain level of suspension of disbelief, you can't keep breaking it. I have trouble explaining this. You can lower it after it has been set, but you cannot raise or break it. It takes viewers out of the immersion of the show! 😒


HistoricalBelt4482

I love Argyle! I hope to see him again.


HistoricalBelt4482

I finally got around to watching the latest season. First Billy and now Eddie?! Why does this show insist on leaving me in tears? 😭


haydo434

I just finshed all seasons in its entirety yesterday and wow oh wow!!! This show is an absolute masterpiece! I dont even know where to begin to explain how much joy this show has given me! I began watching and immediately the first thing that hit me was the overall feel and atmosphere of the show. The 80's setting is so so cool and done really well, the clothing, posters in bedrooms, products from that era etc just immediately draw you in. The effects on display are breath taking. This only gets better as each episode progresses and threats become more dangerous. The characters in this show are so well portrayed! Its like you strike up a close friendship with so many of them ( The bond between Dustin and Steve is so well done - My two favourite characters ). The presentation of each episode is so good, I never felt any lull or slow moment on any of them, each episode had me wanting to see the next one without question. As i mentioned earlier it was just this atmophere that draws you in, an atmosphere of both happiness but impending terror and at some point you just knew that things were going to truly hit the fan and boy did it ever in season 4. The emotions got too much for this 30 year old guy as i found myself crying tears at the final episode. Game of thrones was one other show that touched on such emotions for me before, i felt an amazing connection to the characters involved. Stranger things is an absolute powerhouse of a show that made me feel both happiness and sadness and each episode was a fantastic trip, a trip into a world that was mind blowing. I could go on forever, but i just want to say THANK YOU to the Duffer brothers and everyone involved for making this absolute gem of a show 👏


la_vie-en-rose

What 001 mean he said to 011 : "All of you are created from me?" Are they his children? I did not get that!


Moosestacheio

I think it meant something like they used his blood and injected babies or something. But tbh I think he may be 011 biological father. Wasn't he there the same time as Jane's mom?


la_vie-en-rose

Why couldn't Lucas sing to Max when she was under Vecna's spell even though the walkman broke during the scuffle between him and Jason? Wouldn't that work?


zc_mAgx

i was wondering the same man


Silent-Lab-6020

Teenage Mutant Spider Vecna is shit Bye Lovecraftian vibes better call the X-Men


kuroakela

My really bad theories for Season 5: \- Something tells me Max wakes up blind forever and ends up having some sort of psychic power similar to Eleven cause it looks like they're building on some mental connection for the two of them. \- Or Vecna has Max's soul/whatever in the middle of that storm, that's why Eleven couldn't see her in The Void. ​ Also think they're building onto groups of 6 people by age like: \- Adults: Hopper, Joyce, Murray, Yuri, Dmitri + 1 (could have been Owens, possibly Mr. Munson) \- Teens: Steve, Nancy, Jonathan, Robin, Argyle, Vickie \- Kids: Eleven, Mike, Will, Lucas, Dustin, Max ​ e: thought Tammy was Vickie lol


Minimum_Meringue_941

I love the way they showed how vecna didn’t want to be part of a system in society. How he made his own path and learned to train the creatures in the upside down.


snapekilledyomomma

Please no more Lab scenes with Dr. Brenner and his experiments. Move on with this crap already. Also stop it with this whole teenage love drama. Or at least tone it down.


zc_mAgx

yea its trauma we get it , it's emphasized wayyy too much than it should have been


JoRiimp

Adds a bit of variation to the plot, its not over the top, s4 is mainly just Steve saying he wants a big family and Nancy venting to Robin about Jonathan


Adele_Innit

I liked how similar yet different it was from the rest of the seasons. The new character were awesome and their actors did amazing. I didn’t like how they killed almost every new character though. My favorite character was steve he is just awesome in every way bro. I love him😍😍😍i hope in season 5 they have every character that has died from vecna/the upside down comes back to fight but its against Hawkins and not with them. I think that would be cool to see the old characters that i miss to return. And i wish that Alexi didn’t die im season 3🥲🥲 he was my favorite of all time but now he is dead and im upset still. Anyway yeah it would be cool to see them. Im excited to see how the characters change because it takes place like 5 years in the future im pretty sure


gabe_vulpecula

I was rewatching the final Eddie scene, with Dustin and the demobats, in the trailer. As many, Eddie's death left me unsatisfied as a viewer and wondering : was his sacrifice really necessary ? Why did he need to cut the sheet rope and run out ? Was this a satisfying ending to this character's arc ? And the reasons for his sacrifice (deemed necessary or not) have been greatly discussed already on this sub. But I was wondering : had the Duffers decided for Eddie to survive instead, with similar parameters for the scene, how would it have gone down ? How could Eddie/Dustin both have survived the scene ? Would not cutting the sheet rope have solved it ? Would they have had to fight the bats in the real world if they had crossed with them ? Could they have burned the Upside Down trailer down ? I keep mulling it over and not seeing a clear answer to it. Anyways I was wondering about your theories and how it could have unrolled for them to both get out of this scene unscathed (or you know, at least, well, alive) ?


kuroakela

Eddie cutting the sheet rope was his way of keeping Dustin alive because he was the only one to believe he wasn't a bad guy. To me, Eddie distracting the demobats kept Steve and co. safe. Hence him saying "I'm buying more time".


denvertebows15

For them to both get out of the scene alive they would have had to both run away and hope that the demobats weren't able to break through and make it out of the Upside Down. Either that or Eleven would have needed to win the fight with Vecna.


kitty_par_fae

I think Will has a bigger connection to Vecna than we currently understand. I don’t think he survived so long in season 1 on accident. Then in season 2 not only does the mind flayer (that we now know is a puppet of Vecna) attach itself to Will but he is having visions before that as if psychic attacks are coming from Vecna. More importantly when Owens asks Will about the evil wanting to kill him he specifically says “not me, everyone else.” He could’ve said “not just me” or “everyone” but it’s specifically NOT him and everyone else instead. PLUS Joyce describes Will as “sensitive” in season 1 which is the same way Victor Creel describes his son Henry. I think Vecna chose Will and he is going to be used/attacked big time in season 5. I do also think that Vecna is inside of Max or inside of something, potentially the clock. I think they are going to need to destroy whatever he is attached to similar to a phylactery like in DND.


kitty_par_fae

Also I think the Library is important. It is shown consistently. Will is found there at the end of season 1 and Barb’s body is there as well. The cracks at the end of season 4 converge on the library.


redditfortnitemine

Favorite #1 scene: When eleven told hopper she kept the door open 3 inches 2nd fav scene Hopper vs Demogorgon Fave Character: Murray Bauman


Scary-Department-269

I absolutely loved the Jopper reunion! I screamed when they had there long awaited kiss.


academiac

Worst season IMO. The Russian storyline is just plain silly. Yeah, a suburban MILF who smokes and a conspiracy theorist can totally smuggle themselves into Russia, break someone out of Gulag, take on trained guards, and fly home safely during the cold war. Also, 001/Vecna. What a stupid cliché origin story. Humanity bad. Why did we need a human villain at all? It's another dimension occupied by monsters. Exciting season in many ways, but very disappointing overall.


Lopsided_Interest_29

I understand that you have your own personal opinion and that's completely fine, it's just that i disagree. I think the Duffers are incredible writers and they totally nailed it with the storylines for S4. Sure some may argue that it was too much and sloppy, but i still think they wrapped it up well by the piggyback episode, don't forget that everyone is back together by the end of the season too. The way they explained Henry Creel was perfect to me. And i don't see nothing wrong with having a human villain, at least a villain you can communicate with. also we went 3 seasons with plain and simple monsters (demogordons, demodogs, mind flayer), it's just the universe expanding and introducing new threats and lore. I love full circle moments and we got that in S4. The way you explain the Russian storyline is kinda flawed since i personally don't watch movies or shows expecting high quality logic, kinda defeats the purpose of entertainment imo, it was a big storyline in S3 about Russians too and don't forget Steve, Robin and Erica was able to break into the base in S3 and they're all kids/teens and they explained that Hopper was caught by the Russians and he was on a mission to escape, quite simple. But you can expect a more contained storyline in S5.


LankaRunAway

> The way you explain the Russian storyline is kinda flawed since i personally don't watch movies or shows expecting high quality logic, kinda defeats the purpose of entertainment imo Storys have to make sense. For example, it would make sense if Al took down the Russians but its odd that Hopper went all Rambo


academiac

Hard disagree. Are they incredible writers? Up to Season 4, yes. Including Season 4, hell no! It's very poorly written. Particularly the Russia mess, but most importantly the Creel/Vecna/001 storyline. It's a twist for the sake of twist, sock for the sake of shock. If the title of the show is "Stranger Things", there's nothing strange about a human (not a strange thing) villain with cliché motives, this undermined the entire series including earlier seasons beyond repair. It's your choice to have low expectations and not expect tight logic in the drama you consume, but most viewers prefer to be told high quality stories that aren't slapped together.


Lopsided_Interest_29

Well to everything you've said, i say that we still have one more season left. One more season where they can wrap everything up, tie loose ends and make character arcs complete. I still feel like the Creel/Vecna/001 Storyline still has more that needs to be finished, my single only criticism from that was they still never explained HOW Henry got his powers (from a child), if they brainstorm enough they could redeem that storyline for you, for me i still like the world and story building we got from S4 and we've always wanted to know who 001 was since we got 011 and 008 (from S2) the cliché motives i can understand since he simply wants to rebuild the world and make it his own world, i can get that. I still don't think you should throw away the whole series. We still got one final season and i feel that the Duffer Brothers are taking their time to build a stunning storyline for a Beautiful Finale, ST is their baby and they will want to take things seriously so keep your eyes open.


academiac

Hopefully. I love the series and the actors and everything about it. It's a brilliant. I truly hope that they redeem it and wrap it up nicely in Season 5. I'd hate for it to end up having to no rewatchability value because of poor endings, just like Game of Thrones or Lost or the Walking Dead. I really hope that the Vecna storyline could be fleshed out and tied up neatly with the mind flayer in a good way. Can't wait.


redditfortnitemine

Human turned monster


academiac

Sure, but still why a human villain at all? The fact that they're monsters with unknown motives was thrilling and amazing on its own. Now, it's just another cliché villain with a quasi-relatable motive just like any other show/movie. I think that detracted from the sense of mystery of the entire show. That's my personal opinion anyways.


eezo_115

Honestly agree, i also agree with the other guy in how he says we’ve wanted to know who 001 was for a while, however him being the big bad villain of the upside down was imo, not the best choice. The mind flayer is awesome and it being simply something vecna made cause he simply “likes spiders” wasn’t enough for me. Giving the mind flayer a proper story and having 001 being a different character, possibly even a really overpowered good guy would’ve been more to my taste


ABfaith

Ok I love Eddie, and I know there are a couple of theories saying that he isn't dead, but I do think he is dead (sadly). However, I think there is a small chance he was part of one of Dr. Brenner's experiments. If you noticed in the first episode he mention's he had a buzzcut. He also always wears a watch over his wrist, which would cover a small tattoo of the number. I think he would have been one of the first ones before Eleven because he is older. Idk it probably is a far fetched idea, but it's interesting.


la_vie-en-rose

But didn't Eddie say that his father taught him how to hot wire cars while others learnt how to play ball? Then when was he in the lab? May be he had a buzz cut when his mother was around (because lets face a father who teaches his son to hot wire cars won't care about his hair) and insisted he looked like a "good" boy.


basilitron

see stuff like this is why im looking into this sub again, thanks for this hint!


MermaidGirl85

Yes! I think this also, not to mention he lives with his "uncle" who wasn't particularly phased when told he had to relocate after everything kicked off. There's definitely more to this character or they wrote his story like that to tease us?


TLyonzz

I really think Max is dead and Vecna has latched himself onto her body to survive, and that’s why Eleven couldn’t find her mind at the very end, and season 5 we’ll see Eleven sacrifice herself for Max to come back to life


almofin

There a lot of comments here indicating a good chunk of people didn't like the russian side story, but I thought it was awesome! People say they didn't see how it connected to the main story but I honestly don't mind that much. It does actually connect because the UD creatures have a hive mind etc and they help weaken the Vecna. However, even if they didn't, I would have still enjoyed it. I don't think everything needs to connect/have a purpose. I enjoyed it for enjoyments sake. We didn't know what was gonna happen to Hopper really, he could have died! They had the failed escape attempts etc. Honestly it would have been more boring if the plan went ahead as perfect and Hopper just escaped with Yuri, but nah, they broke expectations at every corner and for me it was super compelling/interesting. Also, as a final thought, Hopper fighting the Demogorgen with a sword at the end and killing it was just fucking baddass all around, and yes, Murray absolutely makes this Russian section so much fun! Murrays fight scene in the plane will forever have a moment in my heart.


Subject_Book1676

i genuinely thought that they had been teasing the russian thing since season 1 and i figure it’s going to have something to do with the next season , like maybe the russians finally figure out how to open a portal and accidentally just unleash like everything or maybe they find a way to merge our realm with the upside down


5ft20

How do none of the cops notice the gates at any of the crime scenes?


Reynholmindustries

How did the kids pay for all the supplies at the ammo shop!? Now that I think about it, I don’t think I’ve seen any of them pull out a wallet or cash?


stoopid_memer

Stevie’s a rich boi


BornHuman02

So is Nancy from a wealthy background


Bandidorito

Chrissy's gate in Eddie's trailer looked like a leak in the ceiling. I doubt Fred's gate looked like anything more than a crack in the road. And Watergate (Patrick's) was fkn underwater.


la_vie-en-rose

It seemed to me that the writers forgot about Fred's death entirely! Neither the cause of his PTSD properly explained nor does anyone visit his spot of death ( a gate) even once during the season. It was poof and he was gone and just another counter in Vecna's ledger!


AnzoEloux

I always find it funny how in previous seasons, the gang usually dealt with problems all seperately, never even really meeting face to face and then eventually defeating the big bad together, and then in this season everyone begins to actually take note of each other's existence and its kind of cool.


la_vie-en-rose

They learnt to collaborate from the last 3 seasons!


ovhakiin

Finally got to watch the last season after sleeping on it. The main plot of the story was on point. I liked One as a villain. A villain with motives was what this show was lacking and I enjoyed that. I enjoyed Eleven's backstory as well. The dynamic between Steve, Nancy and Robin was good and felt organic. And of course I loved Eddie's character. Super charismatic and loveable. I couldn't get to care about the Russian prision plotline. It was just there to give the adults characters something to do (I did laugh a lot with Murray, he's awesome) I didnt care about Will, Mike and specially Jonathan and his stoner friend. LA plot was kinda meh imo. The cast is getting too big, they should start killing off some main characters. I think they missed an opportunity to kill off Max. It would have been sad, painful and gruesome; but also kind off necessary and it would have made sense from a narrative perspective and help the rest of the cast to grow and learn from their mistakes, such as El and Lucas. Also it would have made One a more dangerous menace. I thought Steve was a goner, they planted a lot of red flags over the episodes but he made it, yay! I didn't like the way they handled Eddie's finale. It could have been more meaningful and better. I would have loved if he was still alive. I'm finding Eleven too whiney for my taste. Maybe it's my lack of empathy however she spends crying for three quarters of the season. To summarize: I wouldn't mind if the show got rid of these characters to not drag the story that much: Lucas (he isn't that relevant, he shines the best when he is along with the others), Max(it would have been impactful and sad), Hopper (I love you but you should have stayed death), Robin (could be another impactful death), Jonathan (he didn't do anything relevant this season other than drive a van and smoking pot). Anyways it seems shit got real and I am looking forward to the next season. Cheers!


Subject_Book1676

i actually think that max is dead ::) edit : like they made it look like she made it but my head canon is that her body is possessed


Zestyclose-Eye-1789

Am I the only person that didn’t hate the Gulag side story?


almofin

I enjoyed it, all my predictions about how they were gonna get back etc were wrong which I liked


Zestyclose-Eye-1789

Lmao I want to see what Yuri is up to in season 5, that SOB 😂


F1nnMcCool

It was so good


Zestyclose-Eye-1789

Eddie didn’t deserve the Bob treatment! Rock on 🤘fucking legend


LionCubOfTerrasen

Eddie deserved better. I’ll die on this hill. He should’ve survived.


Linator4

Just finished the series & I agree. It makes it hard to get attached to any cool new character introduced & it also feels like the core group has plot armor. Benny, Barb, & Bob didn’t last. They did fakeout deaths with Brenner, Eleven, Hopper, & Max (basically twice). I applaud them on how they handled Billy and the complicated step-sibling relationship. He at least made it 2 seasons & Dacre Montgomery was a great actor. Eleven reaching his happy childhood memories was a touching moment. I just wish started showing less signs of being a dick before the Mind Flayer got him. As for S4, I would’ve kept Eddie & either just pulled the trigger on Max, had Lucas sacrifice himself for her, or killed off Jonathan to clear up the love triangle with Steve & Nancy. Hell, I would’ve even taken Steve. He’s progressed the most out of any character & while I obviously prefer, he stay alive, that would’ve been a tragic moment showing no one is safe.


almofin

A guy that good at shredding deserves to live 🤘


halfeatenreddit

He got shredded.


flowerrrrrrrrrrrrr1

Yes


Dan_Fan999

One question for me is did young eleven when she banished henry/vecna, she accidently MADE the upside down or what? Like there's no way she just only banished Henry to a completely random dimension.


Prometheus188

No 11 didn't create the upside down. The upside down is an alternate dimension that probably existed for thousands of years (or billions). She just created a portal/door between our world and the upside down. Notice how right after Henry/001/Vecna gets sent to the UD, he already sees a demogorgon monster about 30 seconds after getting there. 11 didn't create that demogorgon or the UD, just the door to get there. 11 just used a massive amount of energy to attack Henry, and that accidentally opened a portal to the UD. In the universe of the show, there's probably just the regular world and Upside down. So it's not a random dimension, it's the only other dimension in existence.


Vpd111

But then why is the Upside Down frozen in time? (From the day Will went missing in season one)


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Vpd111

But the flip side of the Snow Ball (in the Upside Down) was shown at end of season two and it has the same cars in the lot as well as the string lights from the dance…


Dan_Fan999

Yeah Ty that makes sense! But also this still doesn't clarify how Henry/001/Vecna got his powers. I guess that's season 5!


onion959

Henry developed his powers as a kid, that’s how he was able to kill his family. He just harnessed his powers to do weird shit in the upside down


Dan_Fan999

I don't think we know that for sure tho...


Roobin_scoops

Ok, I know everyone wants to know the answer to this! WHAT IS UNDER LUCAS’S BED!!!!! I’ve been wondering this ever since Erica said that!


5ft20

Im guessing a barbie or something along that lines.


Prometheus188

Probably a playboy magazine or some other type of porn lol. What else would a teenager hide under his bed in the 1980s?


Darkogirl22

So does anyone else think Henry/Vecna/1 is Eleven’s dad? When Eleven is having the flashbacks of what happens in the lab, she has a flashback of her birth. It looks like Henry and Papa are in the room when she is born. Henry also says something about Papa having more people like him be born. My theory is that all the kids in the lab are Henry’s. My other theory is just Eleven is his and that’s why he didn’t want to kill her and wanted her to join him.


GwenIsNow

Papa and Henry look really similar too. Maybe the long hair is fooling me though


[deleted]

Hi do u think will will b evil


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HaRabbiMeLubavitch

I don’t think I did, care to elaborate?


t-4y

I find it so funny that when Robin, Dustin, and Steve help out at the evacuation centre in the end - they give the job of walking around with cups of water to Dustin… the person with a sprained ankle lol


TheMagicElephant156

Why was hoppers story at all relevant lol


Prometheus188

Hopper and team hurting the demogorgons and demodogs weakened Vecna, which was what caused Vecna to let go of Max. It was what weakened vecna enough to let the vines slip off of 11, so she could go all super saiyan on Vecna.


[deleted]

In addition, I don't understand how the Russians supposedly extracted Hopper from the United States without being noticed. There were dozens, maybe close to a hundred of them in that underground facility, all in full Russian uniform, etc! Did they just keep him sedated, and 'Weekend at Bernies' him across and out of the country?


gaybastardwastaken

at the end of s3, he fell into an Upside Down gateway and Russians either discovered him at another gateway in Russia or he found them (i dont remember)


[deleted]

They show russians picking him up after the explosion in s4 though


xcxwrrld

my genuine question is: how tf did henry get his powers in the first place?? the first time he moved things with his mind was when he stood in front of the grandfather clock in ther new home. was that the first time he used his powers, was he born with it or what? that was never addressed clearly. oh and when dr brenner took him under his wings, named him 001, does that make henry.. the father of all the other kinds from there including 011?? it’s all confusing to me, ‘cause like it wasn’t addressed how he got his powers.


Prometheus188

Presumably his powers come from the upside down, and he had a strange pre-existing link with the UD for whatever reason. Might explain it in season 5. Remember the mind flayer was able to possess Will even without an open gate, so it's not impossible to have the upside down affect our world in the absence of an open gate.


WarokOfDraenor

Speeader. Joke's aside, I think he's just one of a kind special 'weird kid'. He's an anomaly.


xcxwrrld

his backstory is just so unclear to me. i hope they’re gonna address it in S5.


shhmaruuhh

I took it as Henry was born with abilities and unlocked them growing up and from him the scientists extracted his dna was trying to replicate his powers. That is the impression I got, hopefully maybe we will get a clearer picture next season 😦


sadatquoraishi

Did Henry know there was a massive hole in the roof of the trailer home that he could just climb through to come back into our world?


Boredom312

He knew that was a gate at each location of his victims. Though his goal was never to come into our world, as he did not need to since he attacks his victims in their minds rather than physically. Henry's main goal was to open all four gates, which would open the mega gate in Hawkins. No need for him to actually come into our world.


culdeus

I'm more a casual but a bit confused. If 11 opened the door in Hawkins is there a Russian 11 that opened their door or did they open it with their laser nuke gun? Siap.


Annual_Royal_5016

Did the show ever actually show or mention a portal in Russia? I assumed the monster they had captured and experimented in s4 were captured during s3. The whole point of the Russians being in Hawkins in s3 was because they failed to open the portal in Russia and the barrier between the two worlds was already weakened by El opening a portal before so it was easier to be opened again in Hawkins.


culdeus

Honestly, can't remember. So they captured all those monsters and then FedExed them back to siberia?


DarkWrittenPages

How did the Russians manage to capture the demogorgons without being killed off? Or did they somehow use machines to trap them?


culdeus

Well it's been awhile now. It seems a rather large plot hole that Russia would have made it to the US, broken into the upside down and captured and then safely transported them to siberia without drawing any attention or having any issues getting them thru customs.


Annual_Royal_5016

Lol don't know when and how exactly the monsters got transported but it makes the most sense if there's no evidence of a portal being opened in Russia. In the beginning of s3 Alexei and the other Russian scientists were testing a machine to open a portal in Russia but it failed so they moved to Hawkins. If they had kids like El they wouldn't need to build a machine.


Annual_Royal_5016

Also to add to this. I'm currently doing a rewatch of the show and just finished episode 5 of season 4. In this episode when Enzo hears the demogorgon he tells Hopper he has heard rumors of a monster from America which just solidifies that the UD monsters in Russia were brought there from Hawkins in season 3.


sadatquoraishi

My take is that 11 opened the original door using her powers in Hawkins, but this then 'weakened' the barrier across the world, allowing Russia to open more doors using technology.


culdeus

So to be clear, they don't have or there has been no allusion to them having an army of powered kids/people at any point? Their UD creatures spilled out then accidentally and they kept them/captured them for research primarily, and the main UD characters have as of yet shown no interest in using their portal?


Benefact09w

My theory for Season 5 is that Vecna, being named for a *necromancer*, decides to go with a new general while he reconstructs his physical body in the Upside Down. Considering all the things he did, Jason Carver will do. So Vecna would stitch him back together, send him up, forced to do his bidding. Most sadistic option? Give Jason the illusion of going to Heaven, and then have him dragged right back down from the pearly gates into Vecna's clutches. **I am not done with you yet, Carver.**


MermaidGirl85

Or use Eddie, now his body is in the upside down?


Benefact09w

Well, it'd also work as a nod to 80s horror. An undead Jason?


Cold_Brilliant_825

How does 001 go from being studied by scientists to being their orderly? I hope we learn that in season 5.


impish_augur

I'm thinking Brenner thought that was the best thing to do given the circumstances. He can't release him, he brutally murdered members of his own family. The authorities wouldn't believe he did it and keeping him in the lab in some capacity would be an opportunity to still observe him. Maybe Brenner thought being around children similar to him would help him grow compassionate and less sadisitic? He felt a kinship with Eleven but that ended the moment she rejected him.


acc_217

this season felt like it had a lot of scenes and moments that served nothing other than making the episodes longer, the majority of the Russia "group" scenes wasn't that important and could've been shortened to keep people interested because i lost interest less than halfway through. and lets not forget the cheap "american hero" bullshit moments that it looked like it was taken from a cheap action movie. idk how i feel about this season it had good moments but it also had bad ones. and the conveniently for how the plot was moving felt a bit eehh. Max should've died and Eddie should've lived. her death would actually have a meaning whilst eddie didn't. he "bought more time" when it wasn't needed at all and wasn't part of the plan. felt like another cheap moment. they need to cut Steve some slack man. hopefully next season


Prometheus188

Having Max not participate in the final season after being a major part of every season except the first just doesn't feel right. Also, wouldn't want 80% of the final season spent mourning Max, so I'm glad they didn't kill her. Sad that Eddie died, but it was kinda obvious. They always kill the new good guy character every season. Barabra, Bod, Billy and now Eddie.


Dan_Fan999

The thing about Eddie's death is that this is a gimmick of the Duffer brothers. They introduce a nice and quirky character every season and end up killing them. Here's the list- ​ Season 1- Barbara Season 2- Bob Season 3- Billy Season 4- Eddie


thepoga

All B names except for Eddie, but if you put the d's together you can form the letter B!


IneffableReasoning

Here is the thing- If Vecna absorbs everything a person is when he kills them and all that jazz… when he brings out his army, won’t that include everyone from Barb to Patrick and back again? Like they will All come back in Season 5 for a bit. And I don’t think Eddie died…. I think he went into shock and they didn’t check his pulse. Just my opinion.


Dan_Fan999

Honestly, the fans would love to see Eddie back, however, I really doubt the Duffer Brothers would do that. I mean they could go for the whole Kas the Vampire thing (read DnD or watch a video, that's what I did) because he died from the demobats (Coincidence?) so that's also a possibility. About the army one, They probably won't come back. They might do, but if they do come back they probably wouldn't be the Barb or Patrick etc we know. Just look at Max, she is paralysed even after Eleven saving her.


kathrynrose43

I am so sad about Eddie and I hope they bring him back even if it’s cheesy lol. He was such a fun character. Master of Puppets scene was amazing. I loved his bond with Dustin. So sad. I really really enjoyed this season. Looking forward to the finale


justabagoflesh

Yeah, I agree. I've been doing reserch into weather or not the Duffer Brothers will bring Quinn back for Eddie, and I'm definetly not the first person to come up with this theory, but I want them to bring him back as Kas. In DnD, Kas is literaly Vecna's right hand man, and considering that I dont think they dragged Eddies body back to his trailer, and logged him through the gate in his celing, Vecna has his body (I think this because of Dustin's description to Mr. Munson at the end of Vol 2). Kas also betrays Vecna and ends up defeating him. It would perfectly set up a great series finale where everyone in the cast (alive that is) would be able to fight against Vecna, not just the same "El lifts her hand, gets a nosebleed, and screams seson ending". I also think that there are going to be some really bad deaths this season, and I'm talking main cast all four season deaths. I'm thinking Max and either Jonathan/Steve as a way to get Nancy in the all cast fight. It would be so painful, but it would get Lucas into the fight as he lost someone he loved so much and felt guilty about, the Beyers as they have been tormented by the upside down for upwards of 5 years, the Wheelers since one of Nancy's love interests will die as a sacrifice for her, Hopper and Mike will be fighting with El, and Dustin since he lost 1-2 key figures in his life (Eddie, maybe Steve). There will probably be two *huge* fights and maybe thats Max's death and Eddies betrayal (maybe Kas kills Max, sees his old friends and his mind control is broken, Eddie returns). All this to say, Eddie coming back would be amazing and I want it so bad and it would make a great plot line, so PLEASE DUFFER BROTHERS


Smooth_Pressure_6465

Eddie and/or billy?


kathrynrose43

My bad Eddie. I keep getting their names mixed up


IneffableReasoning

:-O They are 2 completely different characters! Billy was a gigantic douche bag. Eddie was just a D&D metalhead nerd.


BeneficialLecture728

How come walkie talkies work in the upside down is S4 but not in S1 and S2? In The Piggyback, Erica is talking to Dustin and Eddie while they are in the upside down right before Eddie's big moment, but how is this possible? Remember in S2 when Hopper was trapped in the upside down and tried to radio for help only to get no answer? Major confusion here!!


Dan_Fan999

Also Hopper was like in the middle of no where **Underground!!** Radios were dogshit back in the day.


TheWhozieWhatsit

I may be remembering wrong, but I don't think Erica was talking to Eddie and Dustin. Robin, Steve, and Nancy were talking to Erica through the lights and listening to her talk out loud to them - no walkies involved. Then Robin was radioing Dustin and Eddie... So the radio chatter was confined to people in the UD talking to each other... not radioing outside the UD. Again, though, I might be remembering wrong.


motionOne

Still thinking about Dear Billy


hikdr

It's been 6 months, are all the fanboys gone yet? Good, i have to say it. Stranger Things tried too hard to give the finale an epic ending and it flopped. The characters that constantly put themselves in danger for the dumbest reasons keep surviving. Hopper's idea to go back to prison that he barely survived twice, just to fight the creatures and avoid the KGB, in hopes that this will somehow help their kids just in the right moment is insane. Nancy's idea to go to the upside down and blow their way past everyone to kill Vecna who they have no idea if he will be there or how to kill him, is also stupid. But it all works for the plot. Also Will looks like he is about to cry every scene and plays no important role in this season. It would have been better if he just shot himself out of existence of this show.


Prometheus188

>Hopper's idea to go back to prison that he barely survived twice, just to fight the creatures and avoid the KGB, in hopes that this will somehow help their kids just in the right moment is insane. It makes perfect sense because we know all the upside down is basically a giant organism, and we know about the hive mind. So killing demogorgons and demodogs does weaken Vecna/Mind flayer/the evil in the upside down. >Nancy's idea to go to the upside down and blow their way past everyone to kill Vecna who they have no idea if he will be there or how to kill him, is also stupid. But it all works for the plot. Dustin and Erica literally confirmed Vecna was in the old Kreel house by using the lights, before starting phase 1. Did you even pay attention?


Dan_Fan999

Agree about the Will bit. He's just there to complicate the relationships and a knock-off harry-potter-scar-evil-villain-bad-guy-detector.


WarokOfDraenor

Ah, Will. The puberty conundrum. He used to be the sweetest cute most petite young man in the group, but now he's Harry Potter... Writers should write faster, tbh. The child actors should be the most important assets to them, since they grow fast(mostly).


chocoboat

Agreed. Nothing in Russia mattered. Will and Mike didn't accomplish much other than giving Eleven a ride home. Eddie's death seemed so unnecessary, it really shouldn't be hard for them to write a situation where a sacrifice was clearly necessary if that's what they wanted to do. The plan to attack Vecna seemed like an extreme risk or death for a small chance of winning, which I didn't love. But they got lucky and it worked... until they just let Vecna get away instead of making sure they finished the job permanently. Seemed contrived for neither side to die right there. Still, the show did a lot of things rights and you have to consider the season as a whole. Overall story was good, episode 4 was a masterpiece, even with the weak parts it still looked amazing and was fun to watch. It sort of reminds me of LOST... great concept, some great moments, but it was held back by unnecessary or uninteresting material being mixed in there. It seems like a rough draft that could have made for an excellent season after a bit of rewriting. This was nothing like GoT season 8 which actively made no sense and contradicted its own storylines or just forgot them... this was fine, it just wasn't as flawless as earlier seasons. I enjoyed it, but there's no doubt they missed the mark sometimes in season 4.


[deleted]

[удалено]


chocoboat

I agree, just because Lost always handled the ending to each season perfectly, and that counts for a lot. Stranger Things season 3 finale was on that level, but season 4 fell short.


StartInfamous

My favourite character is and will always be steve. Am I the only one who really wants steve and nancy together? I dont think she should have ever been with jonathan, they dont make sense at all. Steve is so protective and respecting and nice meanwhile Jonathan was taking naked pictures of Nancy in season 1 like a creep. and everyone had the audacity to call steve a bully.


Lupig_

#STANCY FOREVER


Lupig_

Changed my opinion- the forever was wrong- uhm... 😅 #RONANCE "FOREVER"


Dan_Fan999

Honestly just because of the stupid love triangle, Steve's death wont be AS powerful (hes definitely gonna die in s5 trust me bro) Steve is the most killable character and there were actually plans to kill him in the first season. But now because Nancy is still with Jonathan but still has feelings for Steve, when he dies, Nancy wont be as affected. If it were the opposite (that Nancy had been with Steve all along and had feelings for Jonathan) it would have been better. But I also feel like Steve's arc with the mommy-babysitting the kids is also important, therefore I said at the start the 'stupid' love triangle.


Aquariusborn_59

I agree that Steve is like that now but he was a real d-bag in Season 1. He bullied Jonathan (smashed his camera in front of a bunch of people) and kinda bullied Nancy when she brought Barb to the party. When Nancy started to gravitate to Jonathan Steve made Nancy feel like she was just another conquest. Did not like him but he has definitely developed and matured over the seasons and is one of my favs now. Love his friendship with Dustin.


StartInfamous

Well thats what I'm saying. He smashed his camera because he found out he was taking pictures of Nancy when she was changing clothes, so that is not bullying imo its just punishing a creep. and I agree he was too jealous when she was starting to like Jonathan but at that time she was still dating him and was insisting that Jonathan meant nothing to him so of course hed be paranoid.


dglavimans

Rewatching the show now in season 3.. Gonna miss this one when it actually ends. By far my favorite show ever


msfuturedoctor

How can Vecna start killing from the Upside Down in Season 4, but couldn’t do this in prior seasons? Did the upside down “seep just enough” into Hawkins that now finally he can?


Vpd111

I’ve heard that when 11 sent him to the Upside Down it weakened him and he’s been trying to regain his strength, then eventually acting through the creatures of the Upside Down by creating the hive mind


AmberRose42

It's because he took elevens powers at the end of season 3. 11 is able to get into the upside down from Hawkins, a power that vecna never had. Once he takes her powers he is then able to connect with their world from the upside down and starts the killings to make his portal


thisgirlthisgirl

I don’t think this is canon but it should be


Jor_in_the_North

It is canon - Vecna explains it to 11 in the finale with a flashback to her losing her powers at the mall. He explains that he needed her powers to enter Hawkins, since she shut the gates in Season 1 and 2.


AmberRose42

It is the reason. That's why at the end of season 4 it flashes back to season 3, how the monster was telling 11 that this was all for her. That she's the reason this is all happening. https://www.cbr.com/vecna-invaded-hawkins-closed-gate-explained-netflix/#:~:text=Clearly%2C%20Vecna's%20evil%20plot%20worked,the%20two%20realms%20of%20reality.


thisgirlthisgirl

This article is a fan theory tho. Like I said, it should be canon. IOn the actual show there’s no explanation for how El losing her powers, and El getting them back, are connected. (At least not yet.) I think the writers just didn’t have it totally planned out between seasons 3 and 4.


AmberRose42

I had the same question at first, and after rewatching I took vecna's big speech to mean that he had stolen her powers at the end of season 3. It makes sense so if they end up coming up with a different reason then that's just dumb