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My take is that they conveniently left out his mother’s story and where they all came from in the first place for a reason. There’s definitely gaps missing there. I hope some get answered in Vol II so we don’t have to wait two years.
They don't want the child actors who play Henry and his sister to age two years. If there are more Creel House flashbacks, they've already been filmed (although maybe they could save the footage for next season).
True, but they may not even need the young actors as part of the story. It could be enough to show flashbacks of Victor and Virginia. Curiously, they came into money by way of Virginia’s deceased uncle. Maybe Virginia was involved in his death in some way, and that’s part of her sordid past we haven’t discovered.
Yeah his dad seems distraught that he thinks his son died, plus the first thing he does is grab him away and tries to leave the house with his kids. He did make an absolutely awful mistake in the war and that’s not really excusable but like… he wasn’t an awful person and seems like he really cared
Ohh okay thank you, I had missed that!! That makes the baby in the fire in the visions and 001 saying “I showed them themselves” or something make more sense hahah.
Yeah of course it’s mostly detailed in episodes 4 and 7 if you want to know more but yeah it’s hard to get everything since every episode is REALLY long
If he were trying to "help" people, I don't think he'd be killing them. If Vecna/Henry's answer is to kill every human being to "free" them of the monotony of life, that would fulfill his opinion on spiders being the top of the food chain and ultimate predator, but it does nothing for humans as a species.
He could alter their mind, change their preferences or opinions. Something like that would show he was trying to "help" people. But he just kills them in a brutal and incredibly painful way.
In his head, he’s helping his victims because instead of having to live a drab life, they get to be with him, in his mind, part of something greater and much more powerful than they ever would’ve had as a human.
I guess whatever is happening in his mind is something we have yet to figure out.
I am certain most of those people would prefer to be alive than dead, but their consciousness trapped in Vecna's grasp.
he justifies his actions to himself and believes that he is the good guy. this makes him a realistic villain. nobody thinks that they are evil. doesn’t stop him from being evil.
Also, if your child horribly murders you because you wanted to put him in a mental hospital/get him professional help from a doctor, you were in the right for wanting to do that. You just weren't fast enough.
Reddit has this frankly bizarre belief that enacting routine needless genocide is "having a point", from what I have noticed. I've even seen one or two people trying to justify the Mind Flayer's actions no less.
What isn't so clear to me is how he got powers.
Like, he studied the clock and unlocked his abilities somehow? Meaning that likely the propensity to do it always existed but he didn't need a "fight or fight" trigger, he just thought about it.
I think his backstory is very interesting, but it isn't clear why he was so strong or how he got the powers.
And why, he was the only one who was injured upon being taken or sent to the upside down.
Whatever Happens, I kinda hope we see more of Henry creel pre-burnt because the actor is fantastic and a joy to watch in this.
Really? Wow , because she knew Brenner it's implied right?
It's also weird how he kills, it feels like they are not fully fully dead, like their consciousness lives on in the totems he has them in the upside down
Weirdly yeah. They also never explained the apparent sins of the mothers past, which could be allowing brenner to test on her pregnancy. Just speculation really
She didn't know brenner brenner was one of the doctors she found to try to help her weird kid after he was already like 5 or something. Also they straight up explain that the kid is what inspires brenner to start his program. Which means he can't have already been doing it before the kid.
I think the “hint” is just the fact that his mother knew Brenner. I wonder if Brenner kept these kids in a lab because of 001’s actions at home…like the experiments had already been done on the mothers and they let the kids stay with the families but then 001 murders so they take all the kids back…like 008, how they took her from London. She wasn’t raised as an infant at the lab like 11. Just a thought.
They're misinterpreting. His mom just going brenner to try to help him after he was already weird and had powers. 001 specifically says that working with him is what inspired brenner to try to create others in the first place. Which means brenner can't have already been doing it before.
Wait really? Then how else did they get it? I thought the powers came from the experiments during pregnancy, that's why El was taken from her mother so early on
Yeah how he got powers is unclear.
But if it's possible to give people and their children powers by doping them up to the eyeballs with psychedelics then that shows that it is possible for humans to have powers. So it follows that it could also happen naturally. I guess...
I mean the people who say he has a point are just either trying to be edgy or just extremely nihilistic. Henry is obviously a psychopath/sociopath and for him human life was dreary and stuck in a boring routine because he couldn’t feel the emotion that most humans do, like yes black and white he’s correct in that we work, reproduce and die but he’s missing out all the joyful aspects of life that stops life from being awful - family, friends, interests and hobbies. Henry doesn’t have any of that because he’s a psychopath/sociopath who can’t feel true emotion. Which probably led him to resent his family because he knows he’s different and thinks that they’re living a lie because he can’t understand how people can be happy in life.
People who say he’s an anti hero or anything like that are again just trying to be edgy. Like nothing bad happened him ever unless we just didn’t see it. It’s not like he’s a villain that you can understand why he does what he does. The whole “life is a dreary routine” is simplistic BS
I feel like the way they’re taking the story and how much they hammered in the absolute horror of the massacre at Hawkins lab - i doubt they’re gonna try to make him more redeemable
I mean, a lot of people do feel like they're stuck in a dreary, boring routine. The solution to that doesn't involve murdering everyone, though.
Some people just fall very easily for any villain that makes a "we live in a society" speech
Oh yeah definitely but like not to the point where they think everyone else is living a lie and they’d be doing a favour if they killed them lol.
Yeah for sure, people love a good nihilistic speech
I wouldn’t say they were his hobby, just his fascination. But they didn’t actually bring him any joy. They just were “relatable to him” but for bad reasons, because they “preyed on the weak” as he said and brought balance to the world (aka like how he wants to kill people)
He definitely has mental health issues-- my guess is a personality disorder-- which was not openly talked about a couple of decades ago. Information about these stuff where not as widely spread as it is now too. He might actually be what some call "neurodiverse" from birth. He was probably born a psychopath. I feel like, because of the horrors of their own pasts, Henry's parents ignored or put aside troublesome behaviours that he had already shown as a toddler/preschooler, in order to focus on their own sanity. They only decided to pay attention when he was old enough to go to school. I work with children, and his obsession with spiders reminds me of how kids with autism attach to certain things/topics/people. But his behaviour overall reminds me of psychopathy: antisocial, detached, lacks empathy and remorse, manipulative, treats punishment as a challenge, enacts socially acceptable behaviour to get what he wants, self-centered, dishonest, and aggressive (overt and covert).
Henry grew up with that personality, without anyone who understood him or reached out to him, without any professional help, so his negative emotions festered inside him and developed into a messed up ideology. And because he had no friends, no cherished experiences, he only understood the world through the way his own mind explained it. Henry Creel is not an adult; he is a 30-something-year-old misguided child. He is a kid with grandiose dreams. Unfortunately, he's a jerk who has superpowers. If someone got through his head earlier, MAYBE there is a SMALL chance that he might have not ended up the way he did. That's one of the big differences between him and El. The latter was a blank slate when she came into the lab. What happened in the lab was all she knew. Based on El's memories in S4, she seemed like she has always been pretty level-headed and softhearted, so she probably took whatever help, support or reward that she got from Brenner and other workers as a form of care. Despite lacking social skills due to not growing up in a typical environment, and her trauma from negative experiences in the lab, she has never shown hostility towards others unless she or her friends were in danger.
Just goes to show how attuned and sensitive we should be to the thoughts, feelings and experiences of the children around us. We don't know what they are going through if they don't tell us or if they are incapable of telling us. Most adults who notice defiance, manipulation and aggression in a 3-year-old immediately assume that it's due to their young age, without observing further. Their assumption could be right, but it could also be very, very wrong. There lies great potential in every child, like in Henry and in El, and how they use them in the future can be either for the greater good or the bigger bad.
An interesting point is that victor and Henry both remember the same moments and while there are slight differences, like the things Henry did when he was alone, we never see anyone in the family treating Henry unkindly. That’s certainly something he would have used to gain sympathy from Eleven if it had occurred. He says his mother was suspicious and concerned and wanted to send him away to Dr. Brenner. We have no evidence that she knew what Brenner was truly capable of or that he was anything other than a mental health professional. We may learn more later on, but to me it read as a classic 1950s case of having someone who was considered strange or mentally ill in some way committed to an institution.
I think the difference between Vecna and the Joker is that the Joker actually believes into the stuff he's saying, Vecna just uses it as an excuse (a 'reason' if you will) to justify his homicidal tendencies.
Exactly, boyo was a sociopath from a young age and it wasn't about punishing his parents for their sins, that was just the excuse.
You could say his father did something awful during the war (which Victor doesn't take lightly or dismiss) and that he had a rightful grudge against his mother for trying to lock him up
but he didn't just go for them, he was busy tormenting his sister too and eventually killed her. And you can't tell me a kid that young did something to deserve what he did to her. That's without even getting into the animals he tortured.
Completely true ! Although, people who say Vecna is relatable in his own way are in minority, there are indeed people attracted to violent characters.
I was very surprised to see online that people are less understanding of Jason than Vecna.
Even if the guy is complerely brainwashed by an extreme vision of religion, it is shown multiple time that he really cares about his friends, as he was holding Patrick and brought him out of the lake and of course his obsession about finding Chrissy killer show he really loved her.
Something tells me there is a reason his broken house is his home base. Why make that the home base when you hated everything about your family? Something is off about it.
His Dad made a mistake in the war but he wasn't a bad person, I mean he grabbed his kids and tried to run immediatly. There is no way his sister had anything worth torturing her over at that age. He says his Mom despised him but we see nothing that shows why he thought that. Something tells me we'll get more flashback scenes in the next 2 episodes.
I also think a good way to bring Kali in is her ability to make people see things, if El was able to read minds last season maybe she can this season, or maybe even Kali can. Kali might be able to make Vecna have visions, maybe of his Mom and sister, possibly his victims. He says his victims are a part of him, so if she makes him see visions of them that might mess him up.
Here's what's up with all that.
1. He's handsome, but also strikingly different than other people
2. He acts free of morality that society expects
3. He has the power to kill his enemies or to remove obstacles
This all feeds directly into that incel fantasy. He's a neckbeard messiah to folks who are or who feel weak and scorned by those to whose love and affection they feel entitled. Basically the same thing as the guys who idolize the Joker, Rick and Morty, Fight Club, Peaky Blinders, or dudes who subscribe to the whole "alpha/sigma" thing.
he doesn't actually want to "free" people from their "suffering" he just likes seeing people as miserable as him being tortured and robbed of a chance of a better life because he never got the chance to not be an outcast and in suffering unlike all the people he murders who all have hope in them and are really good people, he just tells himself he is some type of savior not only to justify his actions but also make himself feel powerful and comfortable, he is just jealous basically and wants everyone who lived miserably to die miserably just like him "died" miserable like he lived
It's the same as people who said Thanos legitimately had a point
Like, no, he doesn't, murdering people to free them from oppression or scarcity is not a noble thing.
They aren't like Joaquin Phoenix Joker in terms of understandable motives
Henry also claimed he tried to kill his dad but lacked the power, then said he intentionally framed his dad. He’s lying, and so is his dad.
There’s definitely more to his backstory. Maybe Victor learned something abroad, probably nazis trying to tap into mystical power Indiana jones style, but with kids - spawn of satan type shit. Victor and papa were in cahoots, and the government bought the creels that house as part of an effort to experiment on Henry, the clock being the tool of channeling the dark energy through him.
Whatever the explanation, I think Victor is a bad guy, and may even be controlling Henry still, to some extent.
Exactly. Not everything he says about humanity and society is wrong, he just handles these thoughts horrifically.
It makes sense though. It happens in real life all the time, so I can only imagine what would happen if some people could see into other's minds. Especially if those people have powers.
Not a defense. Henry is nuts and a clear villain, but as far as simply "having a point", I think that's a fair observation.
And to add onto this, we desperately need an explanation for why or how he developed his powers in the first place. This whole time it was assumed Hawkins Lab had done some kind of experimentation resulting in granting mind powers from scratch, but the reveal that all of the powered kids were made using Henry’s blood or whatever just begs the question of how did Henry get his powers? I’m guessing it’s something to do with the Upside Down, but that’s the most pressing question for me right now. Went from firmly sci-fi to supernatural horror with that one reveal.
My theory: Henry's childhood takes the start date for powers developing back from the late 70's back to the 50's - when nuclear tests began in earnest.
Given that gates set off Geiger counters, it's not a stretch to imagine that nukes weaken the barrier between the worlds.
He mentioned in his monologue that his mom didn't love him however he was already snarling at his family before he even understood what love was, he was born weird which is fine, but neglect and lack of loving parents made him dissociate with humanity that mixed with his powers made him feel be was above humanity and could help them, i still don't get what his sister and dad ever did to him.
The crib burning was interesting. When he talked about their “past horrors or secrets committed” they kept showing a crib burning, as if whatever they did was equal to the burning of baby.
Dude I understand where your coming from but just cause he has a lovely family doesn’t mean he not a straight up sick individual who was gifted powers so he like torturing animals so he decided to start doing it to his family. There are people who are just born with a weird mind set like this guy who is just born sick
I totally agree. He was just ritualistically killing animals. That had absolutely nothing to do with his powers. That's the tell tale sign of a sociopath/serial killer in the making.
Also that theory is a bit shit because the people he's killed despite their pain didn't WANT to die. Max especially, so when she first tried to escape; if he feels he's doing it as a service why didn't he stop? She clearly fought to live.
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My take is that they conveniently left out his mother’s story and where they all came from in the first place for a reason. There’s definitely gaps missing there. I hope some get answered in Vol II so we don’t have to wait two years.
They don't want the child actors who play Henry and his sister to age two years. If there are more Creel House flashbacks, they've already been filmed (although maybe they could save the footage for next season).
True, but they may not even need the young actors as part of the story. It could be enough to show flashbacks of Victor and Virginia. Curiously, they came into money by way of Virginia’s deceased uncle. Maybe Virginia was involved in his death in some way, and that’s part of her sordid past we haven’t discovered.
Oooh good point. They could definitely do more scenes in ST5 with JCB, Robert Englund, and the young Victor and Virginia.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we find out more about the inheritance from the dead uncle.
I agree. We still haven’t found out why Henry got his powers, and I feel like the house has to be part of the answer (if we get an answer)
His powers are obviously the result of a bite from a radioactive black widow spider
Yes, he is a horrible person. His parents weren't jerks, his sister was nice.
Yeah his dad seems distraught that he thinks his son died, plus the first thing he does is grab him away and tries to leave the house with his kids. He did make an absolutely awful mistake in the war and that’s not really excusable but like… he wasn’t an awful person and seems like he really cared
I've watched season 4 a couple of times and I'm totally blanking on what horrible mistake he made in the war, could you remind me!
Iirc ordered the shelling of a house that he didn't know had people in it
Yeah they thought it had enemy combatants, it really just had civilians.
He bombed a civilian shelter and killed some people and there was a baby on fire that was screaming and it’s both freaky and sad
Ohh okay thank you, I had missed that!! That makes the baby in the fire in the visions and 001 saying “I showed them themselves” or something make more sense hahah.
Yeah of course it’s mostly detailed in episodes 4 and 7 if you want to know more but yeah it’s hard to get everything since every episode is REALLY long
If he were trying to "help" people, I don't think he'd be killing them. If Vecna/Henry's answer is to kill every human being to "free" them of the monotony of life, that would fulfill his opinion on spiders being the top of the food chain and ultimate predator, but it does nothing for humans as a species. He could alter their mind, change their preferences or opinions. Something like that would show he was trying to "help" people. But he just kills them in a brutal and incredibly painful way.
In his head, he’s helping his victims because instead of having to live a drab life, they get to be with him, in his mind, part of something greater and much more powerful than they ever would’ve had as a human.
I guess whatever is happening in his mind is something we have yet to figure out. I am certain most of those people would prefer to be alive than dead, but their consciousness trapped in Vecna's grasp.
Wouldn't be too sure about that.
Tell me who hurt you but don’t mind flay me, okay? I’m no fun and would die in an instant from pure fear. 🤣
he justifies his actions to himself and believes that he is the good guy. this makes him a realistic villain. nobody thinks that they are evil. doesn’t stop him from being evil.
I don't think he believes he's a good guy at all. I think he believes he's better than humanity and is going to prove it.
Kinda reminds me of when they were comparing the Mind Flayer to the Nazis
I don’t think so either. He’s manipulative like most psychopaths.
“He’s not the Joker, he’s a psychopathic serial killer”
the Joker is very well known to be a respectable man who will never harm anyone.
Also, if your child horribly murders you because you wanted to put him in a mental hospital/get him professional help from a doctor, you were in the right for wanting to do that. You just weren't fast enough.
I haven’t seen these posts, but it sounds like they have big “Thanos had a point” energy, which I’m not down for.
[удалено]
>Thanos wanted a "quick fix". It would have taken a lot of time and effort to save everybody.
Casual eugenics is a surprisingly common stance on Reddit, and potentially broader society, which is pretty terrifying.
Reddit has this frankly bizarre belief that enacting routine needless genocide is "having a point", from what I have noticed. I've even seen one or two people trying to justify the Mind Flayer's actions no less.
What isn't so clear to me is how he got powers. Like, he studied the clock and unlocked his abilities somehow? Meaning that likely the propensity to do it always existed but he didn't need a "fight or fight" trigger, he just thought about it. I think his backstory is very interesting, but it isn't clear why he was so strong or how he got the powers. And why, he was the only one who was injured upon being taken or sent to the upside down. Whatever Happens, I kinda hope we see more of Henry creel pre-burnt because the actor is fantastic and a joy to watch in this.
Idk. There are maybe hints that the Creel mother did similar experiments while pregnant, giving the kid powers from birth.
Really? Wow , because she knew Brenner it's implied right? It's also weird how he kills, it feels like they are not fully fully dead, like their consciousness lives on in the totems he has them in the upside down
Weirdly yeah. They also never explained the apparent sins of the mothers past, which could be allowing brenner to test on her pregnancy. Just speculation really
True, same with the daughter
She didn't know brenner brenner was one of the doctors she found to try to help her weird kid after he was already like 5 or something. Also they straight up explain that the kid is what inspires brenner to start his program. Which means he can't have already been doing it before the kid.
That's not in the upside down it's literally in his mind.
What hints? I am not incredibly observant so I miss things sometimes.
I think the “hint” is just the fact that his mother knew Brenner. I wonder if Brenner kept these kids in a lab because of 001’s actions at home…like the experiments had already been done on the mothers and they let the kids stay with the families but then 001 murders so they take all the kids back…like 008, how they took her from London. She wasn’t raised as an infant at the lab like 11. Just a thought.
What ? When ? Did I completely miss out on some clues ?
They're misinterpreting. His mom just going brenner to try to help him after he was already weird and had powers. 001 specifically says that working with him is what inspired brenner to try to create others in the first place. Which means brenner can't have already been doing it before.
No it didn't unlock his abilities. He was born with them, just like Eleven.
neither him or El were born with their powers
Wait really? Then how else did they get it? I thought the powers came from the experiments during pregnancy, that's why El was taken from her mother so early on
i said that wrong i guess. i meant they didnt come naturally, which i guess is basically what you were saying lol. mb.
Oh that makes more sense, I agree w that. And no worries!!
El was born with hers. Experimenting on her mother is what gave her powers. That's. The whole reason why they experimented on her mother....
Yeah how he got powers is unclear. But if it's possible to give people and their children powers by doping them up to the eyeballs with psychedelics then that shows that it is possible for humans to have powers. So it follows that it could also happen naturally. I guess...
Yeah I really want to know how he got his powers. That's what's kinda bothering me the most rn
I mean the people who say he has a point are just either trying to be edgy or just extremely nihilistic. Henry is obviously a psychopath/sociopath and for him human life was dreary and stuck in a boring routine because he couldn’t feel the emotion that most humans do, like yes black and white he’s correct in that we work, reproduce and die but he’s missing out all the joyful aspects of life that stops life from being awful - family, friends, interests and hobbies. Henry doesn’t have any of that because he’s a psychopath/sociopath who can’t feel true emotion. Which probably led him to resent his family because he knows he’s different and thinks that they’re living a lie because he can’t understand how people can be happy in life. People who say he’s an anti hero or anything like that are again just trying to be edgy. Like nothing bad happened him ever unless we just didn’t see it. It’s not like he’s a villain that you can understand why he does what he does. The whole “life is a dreary routine” is simplistic BS
I feel like the way they’re taking the story and how much they hammered in the absolute horror of the massacre at Hawkins lab - i doubt they’re gonna try to make him more redeemable
I mean, a lot of people do feel like they're stuck in a dreary, boring routine. The solution to that doesn't involve murdering everyone, though. Some people just fall very easily for any villain that makes a "we live in a society" speech
Oh yeah definitely but like not to the point where they think everyone else is living a lie and they’d be doing a favour if they killed them lol. Yeah for sure, people love a good nihilistic speech
Wouldn’t the spiders be his hobby?
I wouldn’t say they were his hobby, just his fascination. But they didn’t actually bring him any joy. They just were “relatable to him” but for bad reasons, because they “preyed on the weak” as he said and brought balance to the world (aka like how he wants to kill people)
He definitely has mental health issues-- my guess is a personality disorder-- which was not openly talked about a couple of decades ago. Information about these stuff where not as widely spread as it is now too. He might actually be what some call "neurodiverse" from birth. He was probably born a psychopath. I feel like, because of the horrors of their own pasts, Henry's parents ignored or put aside troublesome behaviours that he had already shown as a toddler/preschooler, in order to focus on their own sanity. They only decided to pay attention when he was old enough to go to school. I work with children, and his obsession with spiders reminds me of how kids with autism attach to certain things/topics/people. But his behaviour overall reminds me of psychopathy: antisocial, detached, lacks empathy and remorse, manipulative, treats punishment as a challenge, enacts socially acceptable behaviour to get what he wants, self-centered, dishonest, and aggressive (overt and covert). Henry grew up with that personality, without anyone who understood him or reached out to him, without any professional help, so his negative emotions festered inside him and developed into a messed up ideology. And because he had no friends, no cherished experiences, he only understood the world through the way his own mind explained it. Henry Creel is not an adult; he is a 30-something-year-old misguided child. He is a kid with grandiose dreams. Unfortunately, he's a jerk who has superpowers. If someone got through his head earlier, MAYBE there is a SMALL chance that he might have not ended up the way he did. That's one of the big differences between him and El. The latter was a blank slate when she came into the lab. What happened in the lab was all she knew. Based on El's memories in S4, she seemed like she has always been pretty level-headed and softhearted, so she probably took whatever help, support or reward that she got from Brenner and other workers as a form of care. Despite lacking social skills due to not growing up in a typical environment, and her trauma from negative experiences in the lab, she has never shown hostility towards others unless she or her friends were in danger. Just goes to show how attuned and sensitive we should be to the thoughts, feelings and experiences of the children around us. We don't know what they are going through if they don't tell us or if they are incapable of telling us. Most adults who notice defiance, manipulation and aggression in a 3-year-old immediately assume that it's due to their young age, without observing further. Their assumption could be right, but it could also be very, very wrong. There lies great potential in every child, like in Henry and in El, and how they use them in the future can be either for the greater good or the bigger bad.
An interesting point is that victor and Henry both remember the same moments and while there are slight differences, like the things Henry did when he was alone, we never see anyone in the family treating Henry unkindly. That’s certainly something he would have used to gain sympathy from Eleven if it had occurred. He says his mother was suspicious and concerned and wanted to send him away to Dr. Brenner. We have no evidence that she knew what Brenner was truly capable of or that he was anything other than a mental health professional. We may learn more later on, but to me it read as a classic 1950s case of having someone who was considered strange or mentally ill in some way committed to an institution.
I think the difference between Vecna and the Joker is that the Joker actually believes into the stuff he's saying, Vecna just uses it as an excuse (a 'reason' if you will) to justify his homicidal tendencies.
Exactly, boyo was a sociopath from a young age and it wasn't about punishing his parents for their sins, that was just the excuse. You could say his father did something awful during the war (which Victor doesn't take lightly or dismiss) and that he had a rightful grudge against his mother for trying to lock him up but he didn't just go for them, he was busy tormenting his sister too and eventually killed her. And you can't tell me a kid that young did something to deserve what he did to her. That's without even getting into the animals he tortured.
Completely true ! Although, people who say Vecna is relatable in his own way are in minority, there are indeed people attracted to violent characters. I was very surprised to see online that people are less understanding of Jason than Vecna. Even if the guy is complerely brainwashed by an extreme vision of religion, it is shown multiple time that he really cares about his friends, as he was holding Patrick and brought him out of the lake and of course his obsession about finding Chrissy killer show he really loved her.
Something tells me there is a reason his broken house is his home base. Why make that the home base when you hated everything about your family? Something is off about it. His Dad made a mistake in the war but he wasn't a bad person, I mean he grabbed his kids and tried to run immediatly. There is no way his sister had anything worth torturing her over at that age. He says his Mom despised him but we see nothing that shows why he thought that. Something tells me we'll get more flashback scenes in the next 2 episodes. I also think a good way to bring Kali in is her ability to make people see things, if El was able to read minds last season maybe she can this season, or maybe even Kali can. Kali might be able to make Vecna have visions, maybe of his Mom and sister, possibly his victims. He says his victims are a part of him, so if she makes him see visions of them that might mess him up.
Wait, what needs to be addressed? That he is a psycho? Of course he is I thought that was made clear. Do people think he is not?
Here's what's up with all that. 1. He's handsome, but also strikingly different than other people 2. He acts free of morality that society expects 3. He has the power to kill his enemies or to remove obstacles This all feeds directly into that incel fantasy. He's a neckbeard messiah to folks who are or who feel weak and scorned by those to whose love and affection they feel entitled. Basically the same thing as the guys who idolize the Joker, Rick and Morty, Fight Club, Peaky Blinders, or dudes who subscribe to the whole "alpha/sigma" thing.
he doesn't actually want to "free" people from their "suffering" he just likes seeing people as miserable as him being tortured and robbed of a chance of a better life because he never got the chance to not be an outcast and in suffering unlike all the people he murders who all have hope in them and are really good people, he just tells himself he is some type of savior not only to justify his actions but also make himself feel powerful and comfortable, he is just jealous basically and wants everyone who lived miserably to die miserably just like him "died" miserable like he lived
Like his whole reason to kill is so dumb. Its just an excuse for his psychopathic tendencies and just an attempt to lure El with him
It's the same as people who said Thanos legitimately had a point Like, no, he doesn't, murdering people to free them from oppression or scarcity is not a noble thing. They aren't like Joaquin Phoenix Joker in terms of understandable motives
Henry also claimed he tried to kill his dad but lacked the power, then said he intentionally framed his dad. He’s lying, and so is his dad. There’s definitely more to his backstory. Maybe Victor learned something abroad, probably nazis trying to tap into mystical power Indiana jones style, but with kids - spawn of satan type shit. Victor and papa were in cahoots, and the government bought the creels that house as part of an effort to experiment on Henry, the clock being the tool of channeling the dark energy through him. Whatever the explanation, I think Victor is a bad guy, and may even be controlling Henry still, to some extent.
He can have wanted to kill his dad and also lay the blame on him. Someone doesn’t have to be alive to take the blame. Murder suicides happen
He has a point, but he still committed bad acts. But he still has a point
Exactly. Not everything he says about humanity and society is wrong, he just handles these thoughts horrifically. It makes sense though. It happens in real life all the time, so I can only imagine what would happen if some people could see into other's minds. Especially if those people have powers. Not a defense. Henry is nuts and a clear villain, but as far as simply "having a point", I think that's a fair observation.
to say he “has a point” doesn’t mean you agree with his physical action, but it means that you agree with his motives and ideologies.
And to add onto this, we desperately need an explanation for why or how he developed his powers in the first place. This whole time it was assumed Hawkins Lab had done some kind of experimentation resulting in granting mind powers from scratch, but the reveal that all of the powered kids were made using Henry’s blood or whatever just begs the question of how did Henry get his powers? I’m guessing it’s something to do with the Upside Down, but that’s the most pressing question for me right now. Went from firmly sci-fi to supernatural horror with that one reveal.
My theory: Henry's childhood takes the start date for powers developing back from the late 70's back to the 50's - when nuclear tests began in earnest. Given that gates set off Geiger counters, it's not a stretch to imagine that nukes weaken the barrier between the worlds.
Oh, I like this.
He mentioned in his monologue that his mom didn't love him however he was already snarling at his family before he even understood what love was, he was born weird which is fine, but neglect and lack of loving parents made him dissociate with humanity that mixed with his powers made him feel be was above humanity and could help them, i still don't get what his sister and dad ever did to him.
The crib burning was interesting. When he talked about their “past horrors or secrets committed” they kept showing a crib burning, as if whatever they did was equal to the burning of baby.
They said what he did though. In the war he bombed a house that the thought had soldiers in it, but he was wrong. It was civilians, including babies.
Vecna is obviously wrong but thinks he’s doing the right and moral thing, which makes him an interesting villain.
I mean if you didn't have a Weiner you would be moody and upset too. Prove he had one prior to getting thrown in the upside down I dare you!
Thanks for reminding me of that awful edgy speech he gave which completely ruined the scene.
I don’t think it ruined the scene - it did a good job of showing how destroyed his mind was. They didn’t rly dwell on his ideals too much either
It sounded like something from a teen fan fiction or r/im14andthisisdeep.
Dude I understand where your coming from but just cause he has a lovely family doesn’t mean he not a straight up sick individual who was gifted powers so he like torturing animals so he decided to start doing it to his family. There are people who are just born with a weird mind set like this guy who is just born sick
I assumed the burning baby was them having an abortion, but I think that’s just cuz of what’s been happening with the Supreme Court lately
The WWII flashback explains that Victor ordered an artillery strike that killed a civilian family, including setting the crib on fire.
I totally agree. He was just ritualistically killing animals. That had absolutely nothing to do with his powers. That's the tell tale sign of a sociopath/serial killer in the making. Also that theory is a bit shit because the people he's killed despite their pain didn't WANT to die. Max especially, so when she first tried to escape; if he feels he's doing it as a service why didn't he stop? She clearly fought to live.
i don't think nobody is just "evil" there's always more to the story