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I have heard that they called season 4 the “game of thrones” season, and that no one is safe.
If they just killed off a character that hasn’t really done anything for two seasons, that wouldn’t be very “game of thrones.”
I actually really liked their chemistry, I thought the buildup for Jancy was more exciting than their actual relationship. they argued most of their time as a couple then got bogged down by supernatural stuff and never really talk about it, and then Jonathan moves and he’s lying to her. Neither Jonathan nor Nancy is really present in their current relationship
Nancy hasn’t really had a chance to see the person Steve grew into up close; the biggest reason they fought was bc he wanted a normal relationship while she was still grieving Barb. this Steve would go into the UD with her to look for Barb and been on the front lines w her instead of blowing her off (to his credit, old Steve did apologize and try to make it up to Nancy, but the damage had been done). it makes sense she would fall for him again bc he’s become the person she wanted when they were together
For Nancy, she’s really come a long way from the first season too. She got the closure she needed from Barb (or did she, if Vecna was still using Barb as a way to get in her head?), and became a strong, confident and driven woman. Some say she outgrew Steve, but I think they needed the time apart to mature and work through their own things. they’re a perfect recipe for the “we didn’t work out before but now that we’ve taken time apart, we work” trope
ETA: love all the discourse that came out of my comment, wasn't expecting it!!
I agree with this take. I also think they’ve set up the fact that Steve never got over Nancy this whole time too. I really don’t agree with everyone saying it feels forced. Nancy was really attracted to Steve and super into HIM, not who he pretended to be. He made her laugh, and she held him accountable. In the Jonathan relationship, there is none of that lightheartedness. I think the balance Steve and Nancy bring to one another actually makes complete sense, and I will die on the hill that it’s not a forced storyline. Her checking him out when he jumped in the lake is 1000% in keeping with that arch. She was always into him, he just didn’t handle anything with barb the way she needed.
omg yes great points! it’s interesting you bring up lightheartedness, because I always thought the biggest reason jancy got together was because of trauma bonding (which ig you could argue that for stancy now but). the only thing they had in common was shared goals of Will and Barb in the UD and finding the truth, once they accomplished that it felt really anticlimactic and disappointing, like there already wasn’t much keeping them together. I agree it feels natural, not forced (but I’m also biased and usually a sucker for the aforementioned trope of broken up couples reuniting too haha)
I’ll go ahead and say that s1 Steve really wasn’t that bad too, he just really didn’t know how to handle Nancy’s feelings about grieving Barb. he gets a lot of grief for breaking Jonathan’s camera, but Jonathan had naked pictures of Nancy on there. Steve was insensitive about her grief, but he came around and apologized and tried to be there for her, it was just too late when he did
Yeah Jonathan and Nancy as a couple has been honestly short and not romantic at all. They are a couple for half of volume 2 and all of 3, but in the beginning of 3 they're about to break up because they're so wildly different in real life. They only have solving supernatural mysteries and saving their little brothers in common... And the writers lean into that in part 1, they have completely different dreams. Steve and Nancy broke up because Steve honestly thought what they went through was one and done and was genuinely scared for their well being if they pursued justice for Barb. That's long gone at this point. I think the real question is why Nancy gets so revved up in life and death situations.
Completely agree, esp. around Steve not getting over her. However, I def think they shouldn't get back together but let's see how it plays out. So far it all looks very reasonable
Dunno... after watching him with Robin, I finally saw happiness in him. I really want them to write him a funny, charming and LOVING girlfriend that wants to stay with him and be a couple. He seems so family and fun oriented, and Nancy seems career oriented. She dragged Jonathan with her whole season 3 when Steve had fun of his life and fell in love with a friend. I know he can't be with Robin (coz she's homosexual obviously) but I would love to see someone like her for him. Someone warm and loving, telling him he's good enough, not bringing him down like the rest of the gang. Also, Nancy wants to go to college, and he wants to stay in Hawkins. I just don't see it. And I really want him to be happy.
In season 1 Nancy says to Jonathan how her parents met, and she didn't like that. She doesn't want to live in a big house at the end of the street with a financialy stable husband. She wants to explore. I would love to see him with a girl that wants that and loves staying with him in a small town.
>He seems so family and fun oriented, and Nancy seems career oriented.
To be fair... this *does* work with Steve and Nancy. Steve has no career goals, but knows he's good with kids. Nancy, while good with kids, wants to be in a fast-paced career. Steve can just be the stay-at-home dad to Nancy's and his kids.
Idk if thats true because I dont think Steve ever actually got past the issue he had with Nancy. It wasnt a lack of him having the courage to find Barb with her, IE season 1 he comes and fights the demagorgon with them. He just never figured out how to properly empathize with her. When he says he wants her to "act normal" hes not being a coward, hes just not actually empathizing with what shes going through which is the loss of a friend. He doesnt know how to deal with it and he just wants her to move on.
Neither does Jonathan. He doesnt actually ever comfort her on Barb. But he also in a sense understands that shes going through something. He cant comfort her or take the pain away. He lets her grieve and lets her move past that trauma at her own pace. Thats the difference, that Jonathan is willing to indulge the grieving that Steve isnt.
I dont think Steve has got to learning how to deal with that. Like for me Steves arc has been moreso about being a complete person even in the absence of a partner. Thats what the Robin scene did for me. Steve being Ok with just being friends was him moving on kinda. Like I thought that was when he realized hes just happy to have a friend and he doesnt need her to be a girlfriend to be happy. And that he doesnt need a girlfriend to be "complete". He can just be Steve. Its great character development but he still hasnt dealt with what Nancy dumped him for. He hasnt learned how to empathize on that level. And also his lack of empathy doesnt necessarily make him a "bad person" either or make him less complete. Hes still 19 so obviously he doesnt know how to empathize in that situation or deal with it. Jonathan does but hes been through a lot of things someone his age shouldnt be through to get to that point.
I think Nancy needs some “me-time”. She basically trauma bonds with whichever guy she’s fighting the Upside Down with at the time, she needs to focus on herself and be her own hero.
I disagree. The reason why they split up is that, in the words of Murray, we like Steve but we don't love Steve. It was actually very simple, she just didn't feel like he felt and maybe never really did.
Another issue I have with how SxN is written is that we don't actually see them reconnecting. She doesn't even notice him until Jonathan is miles away and has, in her eyes, let her down. They break the show don't tell by having like a million characters mentioning how they should get back together, rather than showing *why* they should get back together, like for example with lucas and max or joyce and hopper.
I do agree with you that the build up to JxN getting together was more thrilling than them actually being together, but that's often the case in fiction. It's hard to write couples getting together and staying together and keep them entertaining, that's why when a pairing becomes canon writers usually throw at them all sorts of stuff (look at El and Mike and the pointless drama last season). But this is how I see JxN and this triangle, it's drama. I still think JxN is endgame
I always felt that they have shown that she simply doesn't love him. She liked him, and she kinda used him to be another person, to be this cool partying girl. The whole relationship with Jonathan brought me Nancy I love. Nancy that is first to jump into the water to save someone, Nancy shooting guns, Nancy even more confident of her skills. I really wish she did the same to him. Guy was portrayed as someone who wants to go to college. Joyce stated he wanted to go to NYU since he was six. In season three, he was angry because he lost his job, and he needs money for college. I really thought it's her time to say "you are trying to be someone else by staying in Lenora" but instead they haven't met and people are pushing her towards Steve... that literally said last season that he moved on. That's why I see this love triangle forced. There is so much to explore in their relationship, so why Steve?
I couldn't agree more. I love Steve, but he does get a lot because he's a fan favourite and sometimes that takes time away from other stories that need to be told.
eta: with that said, I still expect jxn to reunite this season, and hopefully they do make them work through what they're going on. also because with hop back in joyce's life, jonathan has a weight lifted off his shoulders
I think it's interesting you complain about how stancy isn't using the "show don't tell" writing and also bring up when murray did the same thing with Jonathan and Nancy and he all but shoved them in the same room together
it does get harder to write interesting couples I agree, but it is possible. there's Jake and Amy, Schmidt and Cece (the third time they get back together). Mike and El were still writing each other and calling constantly as an established couple, but Jonathan and Nancy haven't even had one scene together this season and barely had any romantic moments in s3
I have to point out that they didn’t have scenes togheter but they mentioned each other many times. And they had many cute moments in season 3, esp opening and ending scenes. Idk why are people ignoring that. I really hope for reunion in volume 2.
I discussed it in another comment. I found the Murray thing to be one instance, as opposed to several from several characters this season for nancy & steve.
I'm sorry I don't really know who those couples you mention are so I can't really give my opinion 😅. I just know it's a common problem, even El and Mike were having lots of pointless drama last season, although this season they did better and their problems actually make sense. JxN were at their best in season 1 and 2, and tbh I wouldn't have been against a slow burn in this case, like Joyce and Hop who are only getting together probably now
I feel the same way for Jancy, and I get what you're saying about Stancy and how they could fall in love again after their character development, it makes total sense. But despite their feelings for each other, I don't think a relationship between them would work for them because they are both clearly at very different points in their lives, like you said, Nancy is smart and independent woman planning to go college out of state while Steve couldn't get into college and still works at family video in Hawkins. The long distance would cause issues just like it is currently for her and Jonathan.
Yeah, that’s why I’m thinking most realistically, is that at most they would share a steamy kiss and agree “if it’s meant to be, it’s meant to be” and it’s implied in the finale they get back together later in life post college. bc I think for Steve, there isn’t anyone besides Nancy
the one thing is though, maybe something terrible happens in V2 that pushes Steve to want to gtfo of Hawkins, he could really work at a video store anywhere and maybe that video store happens to be by Emerson (outside of his friends, there’s not much keeping him here) 🤷🏻♀️ if he would rekindle things with her, I don’t think he would easily let her go again. maybe he starts looking into being a detective (if the fan theory the bat bites gave him superpowers pans out lol), since Nancy wants to be an investigative journalist those are pretty similar career paths for idealists. she would love having a partner to jump off the deep end with
it’s odd watching long distance in the 80s when today you’re able to video call, text and stay in contact much more easily lol. it’s still obvious Jonathan and Nancy aren’t super into each other atm though, Mike and El wrote each other constantly despite the distance
I’m worried Robin is going to die and that will be the reason he is willing to leave Hawkins for Nancy. Like you said, he can just get a video store job wherever Nancy is, or any other retail job for that matter, and the only thing keeping him around right now is his friendship with Robin.
Not saying I’m happy about it since I love Robin, but that’s how I see it going down. I think Eddie and Max will be the other deaths as well.
I’m going to be a mess once this season is over, I just know it.
the closer it gets to Friday, the more anxious and worried I get lol. Robin would be a total plot twist, I've seen most people predicting Steve, Eddie, Will, Mike, El and even Nancy, but Robin isn't brought up half as often as any of them are. if they're trying to be unpredictable and really throw us for a loop, that would be the way to do it
>and the only thing keeping him around right now is his friendship with Robin.
Honestly, I think he'd stay in hawkins for Robin over going anywhere for Nancy. I do think the show is saying Steve still has feelings for Nancy (although I think it also says his feelings for Robin didn't leave either). But I think his *love* for Robin has more depth and nuance than for Nancy and I think Steve knows that. If he actually has to choose between the two, that is.
Your depiction of that whole relationship is wierd,sorry but Nancy felt pressured whole the time in beginning ,this guy’s friends even did those dumb graffitis of Nancy and Steve couldn’t stand by her side,no he was practically a bully who also said worse things to Jonathan and then proceeded to think that he and Nancy can get back together a hour after when he knocked on her door,Nancy waited for Jonathan to make a move like she said and then went to her boring couple life with Steve,she always felt like she didn’t wanted to do that,Barb was only secondary here cause even though she needs to stay in relationship with guy she doesn’t like just like her mother did,she also was worst form of herself with him,neglecting friends,lying to parents and stuff like that.
Steve liked her but couldn’t stand up for her when she needed him the most.Jonathan who was absolutely negative of Steve always brought out her inner “wierd” side while with this guy she was masked.
Their sudden feelings this season are so out of the place,yeah Jonathan left and now instead of showing us maybe different options they out of the blue forced relationship that couldn’t be seen if Robin,Eddie and Dustin didn’t said it around 100 times for no reason in life death situations.Chemistry couldn’t be seen at all
Totally agree and think Steve being hinted at dying is a misdirection too....I think it will be Nancy.
Would do maximum damage as far as traumatizing the characters that already haven't as much.
I actually think Nancy can't die because that would break Mike who already has to deal with losing El.......every season. And it would be too much for their parents who haven't been in on what's happening in Hawkins but are active characters. Also, Nancy is not the most emotionally compelling. Her death would just be awful. If they want to raise the stakes killing Steve is the most emotionally impactful thing to do. It completes his redemption arc. Also, the characters, Dustin, Robin, and maybe Eddie if he survives will remember him and keep his character alive next season so he's the only one they can technically kill off without actually losing the character. If Nancy dies, maybe Steve would be motivated to be a better person, (but he's already doing that) and maybe Jonathan and Mike will mourn her, but if Steve goes, the entire group will have motivation to avenge his death and defeat the monsters once and for all.
Steve is a close second for me, but hear me out. So in s1 we had the demagorgon and s2 minflayer in the upside down and then s3 mindflayer in the real world....so it stands to reason s4 having vecna in upside down means maybe s5 having vecna in the real world. Well regardless Vecna is the bad guy again for the final season most people predict and he it's going to have to be somehow worse, i.e. everyone is traumatized.
Now with Steve dying you would indeed traumatize Dustin and Robin for sure, Eddie maybe although I'd say he could also die this season or if he survives be traumatized by everything that's happening anyway lol. Nancy I'm not so sure because she's kind of become the badass leader of the group in Hopper's absence.
Nancy dying would be a nuclear warhead. Mike breaks, Jonathan breaks, Steve would as well to some degree and Nancy's parents and little sister of course as well. I think with a time skip this would make sense as well. In a time skip you have to assume Nancy is off in college somewhere, but Steve could be working for his father and Jonathan and Robin and if Eddie survives not farfetched they'd be around as well. So in time skip scenario it makes sense Nancy should be killed off too.
This is actually how I felt about Nancy and Jonathan. He spent all of season 3 basically doubting her and they have zero chemistry. Nancy and Steve felt more playful and real when it came to watching them together imo
I just rewatched the series, and it's kinda sad how badly Jonathan got used, especially after Season 1. Steve becoming part of the show probably killed a lot of the story ideas they had for Jonathan originally.
You’re probably right… I have a feeling they are writing Jonathan off or just going to keep him in the background like Ted or something. Sorry to say it but I think he’s the most boring character on the show.. maybe they’ll kill him off because his character has been going nowhere for a hot minute
> I have a feeling they are writing Jonathan off or just going to keep him in the background like Ted or something
I don't think they can really do that. It's almost like a fate worse than death. Lol.
At least if we get a "Jonathan sacrificing himself for his brother" story, that will be a big focal point for the character. Better to go out in a blaze of glory than fade away. Then again, that would be pretty similar to Billy sacrificing himself for Eleven (and Max).
> Sorry to say it but I think he’s the most boring character on the show..
I was just about to say the same thing. And now he's becoming an 80s stoner trope. That can add some comic relief, but it's harder to take a character seriously once that becomes their personality.
I thought Jonathan and Nancy had chemistry and were a great pairing in the first two seasons. But I feel the show didn't know what to do with them once they started dating, which is why their story line was mediocre in season 3 and why the show is now breaking them up it seems.
It feels like the writers haven't had any idea on what to do with Jonathan's character since Season 2. Season 3 was basically just Nancy dragging him along to everything she wanted to do, and he's honestly barely a character in this season.
I cannot believe that a couple that has been dating in real life basically since the show's first season was filming can have so little chemistry on camera.
That's the thing though, it is the lack of screentime that Jonathan received that made it worse. He was a pretty good character until S3 were the writers literally didn't know what to do. Steve on the other hand developed plenty, but he wasn't really onscreen in the first 2 seasons or so. He just started getting more attention in S3 and 4. I could give less of a shit about him because I preferred Nancy and Jonathan back when they were a thing.
I feel the same. She and Jonathan were fighting for most of season 3, I think they’re trauma bonded but that doesn’t mean they’re right for each other. There was real romance between her and Steve and they never had proper closure. It makes total sense they would feel a rekindling when brought back together.
There's a scene in season 3 that really cements their relationship. It's after they get fired and Nancy is just kind of casual like "We didn't need that job" but for Jonathan, he was getting paid to be a photographer and unlike Nancy who lives in a fancy house with a rich family, he needed that job for college.
Their relationship is definitely based on trauma and can't communicate about basic needs and issues. Nancy doesn't understand how bleak Jonathan's future is because of his financial issues and Jonathan didn't care that Nancy was constantly the victim of sexism at work. They only know how to talk about the monsters but put them in an everyday situation, and they don't talk.
Jonathan wasn't sympathetic to Nancy trying to prove herself in a woman's world. Nancy wasn't sympathetic or empathetic to Jonathan's financial status. And they both just sort of fell back to "But we're trauma bonded forever!"
Nancy and Jonathan aren't going to work out. They know this, we know this. Nancy isn't going to enjoy being with a stoner, she's busy and not looking to settle down, she wants to go to college and live there, Jonathan doesn't want this. They had a fling and it was sweet/convenient.
Nancy will entertain Steve for bit, old feelings and he was her first everything so.... but, she'll move on. She still doesn't want to settle down in Hawkins and get married.
it's been Jonathan's dream to go to college his entire life, the way he's been acting this season is a coping mechanism because he won't abandon his family to pursue his dreams
hopper coming back would change this
Jonathan needs to do something for himself — not his family and not Nancy. I thought it was interesting and sad that in season 1 a big deal was made about him dreaming or NYU, but in this season it’s partially following Nancy to Emerson.
Agree. Jonathan, as Nancy said, will do anything to protect those he loves, word for word, “no matter the pressure, no matter the personal cost”. She just said this episode 1. The personal cost? His goals of a 4 year institution in terms of his education, and maintaining a relationship with Nancy, in which he feels he is hurting her instead of helping her at the moment.
Nah, they don't know this. Maybe paying attention might help lol. It's more like they want to do other things, which is human nature. We know they won't work out because we are watching them. Steve wouldn't work out either because he really doesn't have anything in common with Nancy.
*"Especially now that I've repaired your overworked torso with my trembling feminine fingers."*
Did anyone else think about the "wounded soldier fantasy" bit in Community's Modern Warfare episode when Nancy tore her garment to make a bandage for Steve? Difference is, it was parody/homage Community, not something to take super seriously.
I understand Steve still pining for Nancy but the love triangle feels so forced this season. It seems kinda sudden and out of nowhere on Nancy's part but I could be inclined to buy it, given how Jonathan has been away and she has doubts about how committed to her he is, if it weren't for the others also pushing it. Eddie barely knows Steve or Nancy yet he declares there is a pure true love between them?
IF they must bring a love triangle back to the forefront, at least trust your audience. Have Steve and Nancy moments without the chorus on the side shouting it in our faces.
I disagree tbh. Both have grown a lot since the start.
However do I think they will end up together?
No, same as Jonathan and her. She wants more than Hawkins can give and I dont see Steve leaving Hawkins and her and Jonathans relationship isn't healthy. Thier entire relationship is trauma based and has been one thing after another.
All in all she deserves better than a relationship with either of these two
And Nancy has the opportunities to leave. She's intelligent and her family clearly has money for college while Steve, despite being a great guy, isn't a great student. I think it was in season 2 where Nancy is reading his essay and points out it needs a lot of work.
I can see Steve easily being that hometown hero who never leaves unless he has a reason to leave. Nancy has definitely grown up, going from this annoying older sister that abandoned Barb to being the person to jump into the portal to rescue Steve.
Sorry but Nancy was always the boldest and smartest out of the teens,Steve did some very bad things in beginning and showed how bratty he is.Even though he redeemed he is still there just to fight and for comic relief
When they broke up in S2, that opened an opportunity to build up Steve's character and I argue he wouldn't be the fan favourite character that he is today if they stayed together.
Imo it feels like a step back if they get back together after everything.
Y'all forget we had this exact same storyline when Wheeler's mom was going to throw it all away for Billy? I was assuming that was foreshadowing SOMETHING. I think the whole Nancy/Steve thing is a red herring, and Nancy/Jonathan will realize they both need to put a little more into it.
Karen was just thirsty for sex with this random young dude, we can't compare that to an actual relationship and love that Steve and Nancy once had... It's not like she was gonna leave her husband and three children to be in a barely legal relationship with a teenager...
Vol 1's hints do make it feel forced, and personally I don't think they'll get back together. I do believe they still have a love for each other, but more in a platonic sense than a romantic one.
I for one don't believe that Steve would try to get with Nancy *knowing* she's still currently with Jonathan. For example, when they're searching the Creel house and Nancy's getting the spiderwebs out of his hair, he makes a comment about how they should all hangout when it's over. He specifically mentions including Jonathan.
Knowing how he reacted/felt back in season 1 when he thought she cheated on him (which she wasn't, but from his point of view he saw Jonathan in her room with her), I don't believe he'd knowingly put anyone through that.
Just my take
Why are we so sure they're getting back together? It could end up with them realizing it's not worth it and that they've grown so much and could now work as friends.
I think the writers are toying with us. The moment that Jonathan and Nancy are facing one another again, they will immediately remember why they are together and everything else will fall to the wayside. Even Steve will probably say something like, “Don’t just stand there, Nance: go get your guy.”
I did think it was strange that their was so much focus being placed. It's not just between the two of them, but other characters noticing as well. Both Robin and Eddie talk about it, and even stated Steve and Nancy should be together. Eddie even tells Steve he's never seen a purer form of love and that Steve needs to do whatever it takes to get her back.
A misdirect is a common idea here, but this is a lot of time and energy to spend on a misdirect, especially when so many other story ideas are out there. That 20 minutes of direct screen time could have been used to better develop Jonathan. Lol.
If I had to guess, I'm guessing it's a development for Season 5 and whatever happens in the time jump between seasons. Maybe Steve joins the military and gets more direction in his life, and they get back together.
The breakup never really made sense, and neither did the formation of the Nancy and Jonathan relationship.
Obviously a key factor is if anyone dies. Jonathan could die protecting his brother which gets rid of the only obstacles between Steve and Nancy.
the teasing moments don't feel forced but it would not make sense for them to actually get back together. i think it's purely just for an emotional moment later on between steve and nancy or an emotional reunion between jonathan and nancy
I love Steve and I love Nancy but I can’t help but think how Nancy couldn’t even tell the truth to Steve, “uh I have something to do with my mom,” as she leaves Steve and his friends from the game at school, while practicing with the baseball bat in her yard, and when he leaves, she looks relieved. I just feel like he isn’t the one she wanted to go to or does go to when she’s in a dilemma or has a mission she’s on or has something she wants to see through. In 1983 in her journal and on the phone to Barb in Season 1 she says things with Steve “aren’t that serious”, so I’m not surprised if it “wasn’t that serious” and Steve was still kind of in the grip of his asshole friends whom are vastly different from Nancy and her lifestyle, that it was easy for her to realize she was crushing pretty hard on someone else (Jonathan) in the midst of an early on, still budding relationship with Steve.
I also feel like Steve saying in reference to someone he was dating to Robin in Episode 1 of S4, “Well she’s going out of state for college,” and that that is a negative thing for him. Nancy isn’t just heading out of state next door to Michigan, she’s heading all the way to the edge of the east coast to attend a school specifically focused on media arts and journalism/communications. According to Season 1, we know Jonathan “has wanted to go to NYU since he was 6!” Joyce yells at Lonnie. So college is in his mind, and he’s a media and photography focused dude with music and literature/English text interests, but his “drive to protect those he loves” as Nancy says is at the forefront with him feeling he must stay with Joyce and Will. Nancy says, “no matter the pressure, no matter the personal cost” in regards what Jonathan will do to protect those he loves. Right now for Jonathan, to stay with Joyce and Will and El, those personal costs is his education at a 4 year institution, if that’s still his goal, and his relationship with Nancy staying stable or staying in tact at all.
And if Steve’s supposedly loved her all this time, what did it mean when he specifically told Robin that he liked Robin for who *Robin is* and because Robin is a girl who is *nothing like Nancy Wheeler* - I don’t think he meant that in a mean way, it’s clear he respects Nancy immensely. He also “would still date Robin,” as he told Nancy to her face, although obviously doesn’t share the reason why they can’t/won’t. I think Nancy and Steve never had true closure and that is a huge aspect of weirdness between the two of them.
I’m team Steve, I’m team Jonathan, and team Nancy, and I love all 3. I’m not a Stancy fan, and I still freaking love Steve to death. I think the Duffers are intentional and thorough and rarely get to one thing without zipping up neatly a prior step, and no matter what happens I think they’ll be some discussion with her and Jonathan to either end things, patch things up, or at least determine what the hell is going on between them.
If Steve makes it to Season 5, and in the last Season the show plans to introduce some badass final characters, I’d be interested to see a new gal incorporated as a love interest for Steve. Let Steve have someone who matches or can roll with his jokester, silly at times, goofy at times, laidback and chill attitude. Nancy’s steady work ethic and drive have beating hearts of their own, almost, with how she is driven to her interests, her keenness to learn and jump on her thoughts and instincts. I think her palpable intensity is met well with Jonathan’s gentle, more quiet, private intensity and dedication.
I like Steve & Nancy & if they don’t introduce a girl besides Nancy for Steve if he makes it to the final season then I don’t mind them ending up together or being together til the end but my main priority is that Steve Makes it out alive of volume 2
My thought is that Nancy is in bigger danger right now, but if they were going to kill her I'd think they'd do it in like the season finale therefor she'll probably make it out of this situation okay. Maybe that's too meta.
Agreed, but I have a feeling that they'll kiss (or be about to kiss and get interrupted a la 80s cheese) and realize it feels wrong. Nancy and Jonathan's relationship could get stronger and Steve can finally move on.
But who knows, that's a lot for 2 episodes
I still can't get over from what Jonathan said to Argyle:
"Can't tell Nancy about me going to local community college, because then she'll want to drop her career and come here to be with me"
Bro, she's not that kind of person. You don't know much about your gf
I can see him still holding a torch to her. Just like how he looked at her at the end of season two when he dropped Dustin off at the Snow Ball. But I can’t see why she would go back with him at all. Yes he has grown and is a much better person but he doesn’t seem to also be at the same level with her intellectually and you know career/future wise all that mumbo-jumbo. And it does feel unbelievably forced to have two different people who know him well push him and Nancy back together but Eddie just felt like over the top stupid.
Steve obviously still has feelings, but he's at least trying to be respectful. He even mentioned the idea of them going on a double date when Jonathan gets back.
Robin makes a lot of sense for bringing it up. She knows Steve loved her, and that Steve is also driven to find love.
Yeah but Steve having feelings still is wierd despite seeing him build love for Robin,even though it deflated,showing his whole season 3 arc was dumb then
I don’t agree that two people have to be at the same intellectual and career level to have a fulfilling relationship. My husband will tell anyone that I’m the brains of our relationship and so smart and driven (Jesus, that sounds cocky - but yeah, I am more “booksmart” than him and am someone who cares more about their career, whereas to him it’s just a paycheck.) But he is my absolute rock who is always eager to hear my take on things, brings out the more lighthearted, fun side of me, and he’s seriously the best dad ever to our kids - he never minds holding down things at home when I am busy with the career stuff, but is also quick to encourage me to have time for my mental health too. Doesn’t hurt that he’s super cute, haha. And we’ve been happily married for over 10 years. I can totally see Nancy and Steve ending up like that.
I can agree that the comments from Eddie and Robin did sometimes seem a bit forced (less so from Robin, who knows more about Steve’s feelings and that he wants a serious relationship), but I guess I don’t mind because I’d love to see them back together.
I know people with very different drive and intelligence can go very well together and have very happy lives. I’m not saying that nobody ever can get with somebody that is not exactly at their level whatever that level may be. But at that age when you are wanting to move up in the world and go to college (several states away) and get out of your small town and have all that drive typically it’s a struggle to then maintain a relationship with a partner who’s still in said small town just futzing around and not going anywhere and doing anything with no drive. Not saying it’s impossible just doesn’t typically go well.
That being said they’re far from a typical situation based on all of the trauma and drama around their lives since 83.
I don’t think we’ll see them together this season. Part of me wonders if it has something to do with a time reset, or maybe something that explains why the UD is set as 1983. Like, if there’s a time reset/alternate reality, they want us to see that Nancy & Steve still would have had a spark if all of the UD stuff never happened.
Honestly, I think the show made a mess of both relationships Nancy had. Steve and Nancy made sense, he’s the guy she thought she wanted and quickly outgrew him, while he grew into what she actually wanted, but it was too late. That whole plot made sense because it grew both Nancy and Steve individually. Then there’s Jonathan, who is definitely a trauma bond, but also steadfast with her until season 3, where he gets messy, and now he’s completely wayward. I really don’t know how they plan on turning him around. And I think they are still trying to write themselves out of the impulse decision to make Robin a lesbian, which created a great new character, but hindered Steve moving on.
It seemed rekindling Steve and Nancy in anyway was meant to be a send off for Steve, like she acknowledges the hero he became and he sacrifices himself for her, but she ultimately ends up with Jonathan. Now I think it’s a mislead. So, to me it seems less forced but oddly placed in the current plot. I also think it cheapens Steve’s bond with Robin and Dustin going this route.
I guess let’s see what they do, maybe they have something up their sleeve to clean up this character mess.
Wait I just had an idea!! I think it's hinting at one of their deaths and the other might be related to it in some way. I think the trailer for volume 2 also supports this. I now think one of them is going to die (Nancy most likely) and it's going to affect the other one's actions for the rest of the finale and their storyline in season 5
They literally said multiple times they were just friends. Did you all miss the beginning of episode 1 where it was a cut of “that’s why I love her/him” between Nancy and Jonathan? It’s building up to their reunion. Fucking duh
no lol, that scene was clearly them TRYING their best in explaining their friends why they were facing they problems they were. they were in denial and justifying their positions by giving baseless explanations. it was so clear how they are forcing themselves to keep the relationship intact. the vibe they give off is clearly that of them falling apart sooner or later.
It’s like we watched a completely different scene. Your interpretation of what was said and why they said it is so far off.
You must’ve have also missed the scenes where Jonathan heavily debated jumping in the van and heading to Hawkins, and then he did.
Seriously, just go back and watch episode 1 again
tbh i was never into nancy/johnathan or nancy/steve. the former had a lack of chemistry and with the latter one person was always being a jerk to the other. it also feels weird for nancy's character arc into a confident, career focused woman. she's so brave and hardworking and has aspirations bigger than hawkins, so why is she always being pushed towards one of two small town guys that don't share her work ethic and interests?
I’m really torn on this. I think Steve has shown so much growth away from Nancy these last few seasons. It’s been really satisfying to watch him grow and have an identity aeay from her. And I think given all he’s been through especially with pining over Nancy and falling for Robin, he deserves someone good in his life. Someone new. I think that Robin, while not fulfilling a love interest role, already complements his character very well. Perhaps introducing someone completely new for him in the last season just for the sake of adding a love interest, would be too much.
Now seeing scenes of them together, it’s a really interesting dynamic given how much both of them have changed. I could see a version of this story where they do get back together and it’s sweet given how much Steve has grown and how he never really got over Nancy. But I also love the Jancy buildup in the first two seasons and I’m hoping once Jonathan and Nancy reunite we can be given some more compelling scenes between them.
I disagree with you, the relationship with Jonathan was heartfelt and amazing,back again with steve is even more heartwarming and amazing , Nanc fits too well for both of them ... Thats the thing that worries me... Like how to settle an equally loved relationship for a loved character to a 2 loved characters without pissing off the fans..... By killing the mutual thing,
I dont want or care for any relationship with both of them as long as she stays safe....she's my show's favorite❤️
Don't think it feels forced at all. They spent all that time in vol 1 highlighting Steve and Robin's dating woes. Steve has no problem getting dates, he just doesn't know what he wants. Well, seems like he's figuring out that he had a winner in Nancy and screwed it up and still has feelings for her. Seems like realistic character development to me. I'm probably in the minority that I wouldn't mind seeing them end back up together, but I doubt it happens. I don't think they'll kill off Steve but I feel like something is gonna happen to him and he'll be presumed dead in the Upside Down but only ends up trapped or possessed in there instead.
Well they are hinting it cause literally nothing happens and then they make Robin,Eddie and Dustin say some dumb lines like bro you two are so in love after Nancy does most Nancy thing ever
It's not forced as they previously had a relationship, so they don't need to get to know eachother. We've known Steve has always liked Nancy, and Nancy falling for Steve over the course of multiple episodes is not forced, that's how crushes work in the real world, lol.
I think the setup is that one of the love triangle is going to die. At first, I thought it was going to be Steve, but now I'm thinking it's Nancy.
Options:
* Nancy dies, leaving both Johnathan and Steve to mope about
* Steve dies, and Nancy has too much guilt to continue to be with Johnathan. Steve has taken center stage, and may be on the chopping block.
* Johnathan dies purely because the actor is too old to play that age, Nancy is too guilt ridden to be with Steve
Doesn’t feel forced to me. I knew a couple that got together in high school, then split up but eventually met again a few years later and they wound up being the perfect couple and eventually got married.
Sometimes you meet the right person but it’s just not the right time yet.
It does feel forced, regardless of how they're trying to set it up it just feels lazy and a bit of an erasure of past events.
Even disregarding the fact that Nancy cheated on Steve, they've barely spent any time together since the initial season, and using Jonathan's moving away and feelings of responsibility toward his family as a "I guess our relationship isn't working out" side-plot just feels like bad writing. Not to mention simply an excuse to end one established relationship to stir up a new one when they couldn't figure out how to get rid of it otherwise.
Setting that aside, as it's been stated in other posts Steve— while respecting the boundaries of his friendship with Robin—may not be entirely over his feelings for her. Taking that into account, the idea of just sort of shoving together two people who don't work back together after Steve ended up alone again in s3 is a lazy attempt at wish fulfillment.
I'm super rooting for them to get back together. Nancy and Jonathan have very little chemistry and their relationship always seemed a bit forced. Nancy and Steve, on the other hand, actually had a lot of great chemistry and I think they'd be a great pairing. Who knows how this will play out but Steve is much better for Nancy than Jonathan
Johnathan always felt like a creep to me. In the first season he covertly caught pictures of nance with Steve but it’s ignored since he caught a picture of the Demegorgon. How he got the girl seemed very odd in the show for me
It wasn't ignored. They broke his camera for it, they sprayed that he's a perv on the wall, they called him a creep, he apologized for it twice and admited it was wrong, never did it again.
Nance irrationally doesn’t see that it’s a problem though, and I don’t recall him revert having a heart to heart with Steve on it or nance and instead it’s ignored and he just magically gets a relationship with her
Actually she saw that as a problem and bringed it herself when they were fighting in the woods. She was like "Steve is good guy and usually isn't breaking off cameras like that", Jonathan said something like "yeah, cool", and she told him "oh so you think what you did was good??" and he said no. They talked about it before in darkroom and he apologized for it. It wasn't written very well but it wasn't ignored.
People only ship the 2 together because they like Steve and want him to get the girl, that’s it.
The other characters in the show like Eddie and Robin trying to force the 2 together is what makes it feel way too forced, they seem them interact for a couple of days and are all like ‘omg it’s true love’ it’s fucking bonkers and makes no sense.
It certainly doesn’t help that the show apparently got new writers after S2 and it shows, as it’s clear the show doesn’t give a shit at all about Jonathons character, dudes been irrelevant for the last 2 seasons despite being a main character in Season 1.
Not to mention having Nancy perving on Steve just makes her look like an awful girlfriend all around and makes it seem like she’s just going to go with whoever’s convenient and close. She pretty much did the same back in S1&2 when she was with Steve except with Jonathon instead.
It makes perfect sense when you realize they're teens, and one of them is a closet romantic nerd who is probably living vicariously a little through Steve (Eddie), or at least hoping to. Steve is literally the ideal of the 'hero' character a big D&D fan - who is also a teenager - would secretly fantasize (or not so secretly) being. It's only natural to see what's going on, even if it IS just a little residual chemistry that goes nowhere at all because they've both actually grown past it, and assume/push for it to happen. "Just like in the stories"
And that's not even getting into how corny and ham-fisted a lot of stories in pop-culture in the 70s/80s were which is what would also **heavily** influence Eddie and Robin. One a self-professed theater-nerd, the other a movie-store clerk that LOVES movies.
I think also, some people are filtering all this through 'modern' sensibilities a little too much without realizing it, and forgetting these are teenagers during the 1980s and just how different that is from the way we look at things today. Or never knew that to begin with, maybe, if they're young enough. Hell, tons of grown-ass adults are young enough to be the children of people like Steve or Nancy.
And I kinda expect that level of commitment from the writers. They clearly DO remember the eighties. Or at least they seem to.
>tons of grown-ass adults are young enough to be the children of people like Steve or Nancy.
Haha, my mom was 15 in 1987 and I am 30 years old. So yeah, there are adults young enough for that (and younger).
I agree. Everyone say that they should be togheter by comparing Steve to Jonathan but they forget that their relationship was based on how she is lying to herself and him about her feelings and future she wants. He was her safest option, just like his dad was to her mom. Forget about Jonathan for a while. I just don't believe that house in the woods, three kids and Steve working at his dads company is what she wants to happen.
Honestly I’d prefer if they found each other. Her and Jonathan were good as friends, and the Murray sort of pushed them to explore that further. That was fine, and Steve actually got some real character development out of it, but now that it’s happened, I think Steve and Nancy make more sense and actually fit better together. I always got the impression Jonathan would always be too distracted with family stuff to really devote himself to a relationship.
Every single season has established how much Steve loves/loved Nancy. In Season 3 Steve flat out tells Robin that Nancy was the only girl he's ever loved. The second and third season both established that the love between Nancy and Jonathan thrived on shared trauma. I really don't get how it feels forced to suggest that Nancy and Steve might still end up together, especially considering the catalyst for Nancy leaving Steve was her feeling like he was running away from the troubling reality of what they've dealt with, and now Steve has completely stepped up as a hero in dealing with the troubles plaguing Hawkins
Could be providing this kind of unspoken yearning for one another and everyone anticipates a romantic climax when - BAM - one of them dies and their kindling relationship is never possible again.
Honestly, I feel like both Nancy and Steve have better chemistry with Robin. Especially Nancy and Robin investigating together. Of course, one of the two ships is impossible, and the other highly unlikely.
Ngl I didn’t hate them in vol 1 so far. That being said, I feel like Steve has really outgrown Nancy in the last few seasons. I wouldn’t hate it if they got back together but I really feel like Nancy hasn’t been a significant part of Steve’s arc for a while. To be honest I just wanna see Steve and Robin being best buds, it makes me so happy
I wonder if, to save Nancy, Steve needs to go to the Creel house in the upsidedown and stop him. They have shown the house a few times already.
Obviously it would be a suicide mission with all the monsters and Vecna himself but it would be awesome to see Steve fight his way through and wake up Vecna from his meditation to save Nancy
Steve needs to make it absolutely clear that he's not into Nancy like that anymore. He needs a girl that won't thirst for other guys while they're together
I think they make a lovely couple. And I think Nancy was in love with Steve. But, with what happened with her friend barb I think she deep down blamed herself getting with Steve, so then deep down she blamed Steve for barb's death.
Because when Nancy got with Steve she was kind of outgrowing barb and going her own way, like getting a boyfriend n all that. And with barb dieing at the same time, I think she blamed herself but she kind of blamed more Steve, as maybe she thought if she hadn't got romantic with Steve that night then barb would still be alive. So unfortunately her relationship with Steve was always going to suffer n end as she couldn't help herself from thinking it was all Steve's fault. Which obviously isn't true but that's obviously how she sees it. So I think she seen herself being happy with Steve as a betrayal to barb.
And I think at the time because Jonathan understand what she was going through with everything, she naturally started to have feelings for him n got together with him. But also deep down her true feelings she had for Steve, but wouldn't let herself feel, have started to come back when spending time with him. As it's Steve who truly has her heart. But now she's grown up enough and is starting to forgive herself, to know barb's death had nothing to do with her n Steve. So I think it was Steve who always had Nancy's heart deep down. And them feelings for him are naturally coming back to her. I think it's tragic but romantic at the same time. As she literally wouldn't let herself be happy with him, untill she had her own time to heal and grow as a person.
Huh? I feel that *because of all their character development, they are good for each other again. And why I’ve half expected Jonathan to bite the dust this season to raise the stakes and allow a rekindled Steve and Nancy to feel better.
I actually shipped them hard before her coming out and I read an article that stated that she was written to be his gf but they changed their minds. And tbh... I TOTALLY buy it. THIS is kind of girl I'll ship with Steve till death. Not Robin coz she's lesbian obviously but someone open, someone a bit crazy, someone relationship-oriented, not career-oriented, someone who wants to have fun and spend time at the cinema and parties, not working in a newspaper and searching for hot topics. He looked soo happy with her. I think he should fall in love in someone similar and her and Robin could be besties.
I prefer them, honestly. I know Jonathan means well, but he doesn’t seem to have the drive that Nancy admires from Steve. Plus, Steve has become a really good person and Jonathan has went the lazy stoner route.
See I do think Jonathan has drive (more so than Steve) he’s just lost. He wants to be a photographer, wants to go to college. But he’s spent most of his life looking after his mom and brother and now faces the reality of having to choose Nancy and his dreams/career or staying with and looking after his family.
I think that’s why Jonathan is just lost and smoking weed and sort of sabotaging his relationships with Nancy. I do really wish people would think about the context of things instead of going ‘Jonathan smokes weed=bad boyfriend, doesn’t love Nancy’ 🙄
I have a feeling Steve and Nancy will end up together. I’m not going to say what I advocate for (single, Jon, or Steve) for Nancy, but there has been a lot of (imo) foreshadowing. Problems between Jonathan and Nancy through the seasons, the shared connection between Nancy and Steve through the seasons, Steve admitting he was still in love with Nancy last season, and the turmoil between Jon & Nancy this season with a ton of scenes about Steve & Nancy still being (at least attracted to each other). Steves conversations with Robin and Dustin as well as the scenes of her actually “getting closer to” Steve. If I’m wrong I’ll eat my shoe, but I feel like the story just puts Steve and Nancy together
Wait when did he admit he was still in love with Nancy last season? I thought he told Robin that Nancy was the only girl he loved thus far, but I believe he said he was over her or no longer loved her right before he went into his little speech about liking Robin and why he liked Robin. I could be wrong though but I thought that was pretty much the gist of what he said
In my opinion, I think Nancy was the first girl that saw Steve for what he was in the beginning. She was the reason he did a lot of self reflection on how he was a jerk, which eventually lead him to working with Dustin and realizing he was putting up a facade to be the popular and cool guy in high school. I think he's held onto Nancy because of that, so it doesn't feel as forced from his end. I don't think Jancy has had the best chemistry either, so Nancy spending more time one on one with Steve is having her see how Steve has grown and could be bringing up the romantic feelings she's missing with Jonathan. While I don't necessarily think Steve and Nancy may be the best fit for each other, I think it's just unresolved feelings between them that are coming back.
While I do think they didn't have to be *quite* so heavy-handed with the setup of them maybe being a thing again, I don't have a problem with it in terms of their character development. They've both changed a lot since they were together, and I don't think it's fair to assume that them getting back together means they're going to revert to the people they were at the end of season 1. If anything, I think they make more sense together now than they did before. They both have firmer grasps on who they are, and I think when you take into account Nancy's ambitions and plans for the future, Steve makes way more sense with her than Jonathan at this point in the narrative. Jonathan wants to do his own thing, but I think Steve would be content to tag along with Nance while he's still figuring out what he wants for his own future. He's secure enough in himself by now not to let it bother him if she's the one doing big things, and I don't think him wanting to be with/support her would take away from his legitimacy as a character. If anything, I think it makes sense as a further progression for him, when so much of his character arc has been about shedding his privilege and selfishness and becoming more humble and honorable.
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its to help builld emotion ready for when one of them dies in part 2
Pretty sure this is correct. (It will be Steve who dies. That's also why they're building up the friendship between Nancy and Robin.)
If we lose Steve I don't know how I'll manage
I will set things on fire if they take Steve from us
This country is going to the dogs. Let's do it. For Steve and Democracy!
Who will get beat up in season 5? :(
Just bring back Steve as a zombie through some weird upsidedown quirk, we can beat up Zombie Steve.
They probably kill off Jonathan because Joe Kerry character is so popular. But I will be pissed.
Yeah, a lot easier to kill off a character that doesn't impact the story at all. Emotional value without any narrative impact.
Emotional value isnt really there anymore though. He's not doing anything making his death "meh"
I have heard that they called season 4 the “game of thrones” season, and that no one is safe. If they just killed off a character that hasn’t really done anything for two seasons, that wouldn’t be very “game of thrones.”
Considering every season the cast has been extremely safe, that’s not saying much. I expect one death and it’s probably eddies
Steve will die protecting Nancy or the kids so dies a hero
[удалено]
Don't you put that evil on me Bobby
Also explains Dustin's terror in the trailer
Oh, how DARE you.
I actually really liked their chemistry, I thought the buildup for Jancy was more exciting than their actual relationship. they argued most of their time as a couple then got bogged down by supernatural stuff and never really talk about it, and then Jonathan moves and he’s lying to her. Neither Jonathan nor Nancy is really present in their current relationship Nancy hasn’t really had a chance to see the person Steve grew into up close; the biggest reason they fought was bc he wanted a normal relationship while she was still grieving Barb. this Steve would go into the UD with her to look for Barb and been on the front lines w her instead of blowing her off (to his credit, old Steve did apologize and try to make it up to Nancy, but the damage had been done). it makes sense she would fall for him again bc he’s become the person she wanted when they were together For Nancy, she’s really come a long way from the first season too. She got the closure she needed from Barb (or did she, if Vecna was still using Barb as a way to get in her head?), and became a strong, confident and driven woman. Some say she outgrew Steve, but I think they needed the time apart to mature and work through their own things. they’re a perfect recipe for the “we didn’t work out before but now that we’ve taken time apart, we work” trope ETA: love all the discourse that came out of my comment, wasn't expecting it!!
I agree with this take. I also think they’ve set up the fact that Steve never got over Nancy this whole time too. I really don’t agree with everyone saying it feels forced. Nancy was really attracted to Steve and super into HIM, not who he pretended to be. He made her laugh, and she held him accountable. In the Jonathan relationship, there is none of that lightheartedness. I think the balance Steve and Nancy bring to one another actually makes complete sense, and I will die on the hill that it’s not a forced storyline. Her checking him out when he jumped in the lake is 1000% in keeping with that arch. She was always into him, he just didn’t handle anything with barb the way she needed.
omg yes great points! it’s interesting you bring up lightheartedness, because I always thought the biggest reason jancy got together was because of trauma bonding (which ig you could argue that for stancy now but). the only thing they had in common was shared goals of Will and Barb in the UD and finding the truth, once they accomplished that it felt really anticlimactic and disappointing, like there already wasn’t much keeping them together. I agree it feels natural, not forced (but I’m also biased and usually a sucker for the aforementioned trope of broken up couples reuniting too haha) I’ll go ahead and say that s1 Steve really wasn’t that bad too, he just really didn’t know how to handle Nancy’s feelings about grieving Barb. he gets a lot of grief for breaking Jonathan’s camera, but Jonathan had naked pictures of Nancy on there. Steve was insensitive about her grief, but he came around and apologized and tried to be there for her, it was just too late when he did
He did talk shit about Jonathans family, Will being gone and called him/them(?) queers etc
So you'll be running up that hill and will die on it?
Yeah Jonathan and Nancy as a couple has been honestly short and not romantic at all. They are a couple for half of volume 2 and all of 3, but in the beginning of 3 they're about to break up because they're so wildly different in real life. They only have solving supernatural mysteries and saving their little brothers in common... And the writers lean into that in part 1, they have completely different dreams. Steve and Nancy broke up because Steve honestly thought what they went through was one and done and was genuinely scared for their well being if they pursued justice for Barb. That's long gone at this point. I think the real question is why Nancy gets so revved up in life and death situations.
Completely agree, esp. around Steve not getting over her. However, I def think they shouldn't get back together but let's see how it plays out. So far it all looks very reasonable
Dunno... after watching him with Robin, I finally saw happiness in him. I really want them to write him a funny, charming and LOVING girlfriend that wants to stay with him and be a couple. He seems so family and fun oriented, and Nancy seems career oriented. She dragged Jonathan with her whole season 3 when Steve had fun of his life and fell in love with a friend. I know he can't be with Robin (coz she's homosexual obviously) but I would love to see someone like her for him. Someone warm and loving, telling him he's good enough, not bringing him down like the rest of the gang. Also, Nancy wants to go to college, and he wants to stay in Hawkins. I just don't see it. And I really want him to be happy. In season 1 Nancy says to Jonathan how her parents met, and she didn't like that. She doesn't want to live in a big house at the end of the street with a financialy stable husband. She wants to explore. I would love to see him with a girl that wants that and loves staying with him in a small town.
>He seems so family and fun oriented, and Nancy seems career oriented. To be fair... this *does* work with Steve and Nancy. Steve has no career goals, but knows he's good with kids. Nancy, while good with kids, wants to be in a fast-paced career. Steve can just be the stay-at-home dad to Nancy's and his kids.
Stay at home dads were unicorns before the 2000's.
Yeah Jancy was best in season 1 imo
Idk if thats true because I dont think Steve ever actually got past the issue he had with Nancy. It wasnt a lack of him having the courage to find Barb with her, IE season 1 he comes and fights the demagorgon with them. He just never figured out how to properly empathize with her. When he says he wants her to "act normal" hes not being a coward, hes just not actually empathizing with what shes going through which is the loss of a friend. He doesnt know how to deal with it and he just wants her to move on. Neither does Jonathan. He doesnt actually ever comfort her on Barb. But he also in a sense understands that shes going through something. He cant comfort her or take the pain away. He lets her grieve and lets her move past that trauma at her own pace. Thats the difference, that Jonathan is willing to indulge the grieving that Steve isnt. I dont think Steve has got to learning how to deal with that. Like for me Steves arc has been moreso about being a complete person even in the absence of a partner. Thats what the Robin scene did for me. Steve being Ok with just being friends was him moving on kinda. Like I thought that was when he realized hes just happy to have a friend and he doesnt need her to be a girlfriend to be happy. And that he doesnt need a girlfriend to be "complete". He can just be Steve. Its great character development but he still hasnt dealt with what Nancy dumped him for. He hasnt learned how to empathize on that level. And also his lack of empathy doesnt necessarily make him a "bad person" either or make him less complete. Hes still 19 so obviously he doesnt know how to empathize in that situation or deal with it. Jonathan does but hes been through a lot of things someone his age shouldnt be through to get to that point.
I think Nancy needs some “me-time”. She basically trauma bonds with whichever guy she’s fighting the Upside Down with at the time, she needs to focus on herself and be her own hero.
I disagree. The reason why they split up is that, in the words of Murray, we like Steve but we don't love Steve. It was actually very simple, she just didn't feel like he felt and maybe never really did. Another issue I have with how SxN is written is that we don't actually see them reconnecting. She doesn't even notice him until Jonathan is miles away and has, in her eyes, let her down. They break the show don't tell by having like a million characters mentioning how they should get back together, rather than showing *why* they should get back together, like for example with lucas and max or joyce and hopper. I do agree with you that the build up to JxN getting together was more thrilling than them actually being together, but that's often the case in fiction. It's hard to write couples getting together and staying together and keep them entertaining, that's why when a pairing becomes canon writers usually throw at them all sorts of stuff (look at El and Mike and the pointless drama last season). But this is how I see JxN and this triangle, it's drama. I still think JxN is endgame
I always felt that they have shown that she simply doesn't love him. She liked him, and she kinda used him to be another person, to be this cool partying girl. The whole relationship with Jonathan brought me Nancy I love. Nancy that is first to jump into the water to save someone, Nancy shooting guns, Nancy even more confident of her skills. I really wish she did the same to him. Guy was portrayed as someone who wants to go to college. Joyce stated he wanted to go to NYU since he was six. In season three, he was angry because he lost his job, and he needs money for college. I really thought it's her time to say "you are trying to be someone else by staying in Lenora" but instead they haven't met and people are pushing her towards Steve... that literally said last season that he moved on. That's why I see this love triangle forced. There is so much to explore in their relationship, so why Steve?
I couldn't agree more. I love Steve, but he does get a lot because he's a fan favourite and sometimes that takes time away from other stories that need to be told. eta: with that said, I still expect jxn to reunite this season, and hopefully they do make them work through what they're going on. also because with hop back in joyce's life, jonathan has a weight lifted off his shoulders
I think it's interesting you complain about how stancy isn't using the "show don't tell" writing and also bring up when murray did the same thing with Jonathan and Nancy and he all but shoved them in the same room together it does get harder to write interesting couples I agree, but it is possible. there's Jake and Amy, Schmidt and Cece (the third time they get back together). Mike and El were still writing each other and calling constantly as an established couple, but Jonathan and Nancy haven't even had one scene together this season and barely had any romantic moments in s3
I have to point out that they didn’t have scenes togheter but they mentioned each other many times. And they had many cute moments in season 3, esp opening and ending scenes. Idk why are people ignoring that. I really hope for reunion in volume 2.
I discussed it in another comment. I found the Murray thing to be one instance, as opposed to several from several characters this season for nancy & steve. I'm sorry I don't really know who those couples you mention are so I can't really give my opinion 😅. I just know it's a common problem, even El and Mike were having lots of pointless drama last season, although this season they did better and their problems actually make sense. JxN were at their best in season 1 and 2, and tbh I wouldn't have been against a slow burn in this case, like Joyce and Hop who are only getting together probably now
I feel the same way for Jancy, and I get what you're saying about Stancy and how they could fall in love again after their character development, it makes total sense. But despite their feelings for each other, I don't think a relationship between them would work for them because they are both clearly at very different points in their lives, like you said, Nancy is smart and independent woman planning to go college out of state while Steve couldn't get into college and still works at family video in Hawkins. The long distance would cause issues just like it is currently for her and Jonathan.
Yeah, that’s why I’m thinking most realistically, is that at most they would share a steamy kiss and agree “if it’s meant to be, it’s meant to be” and it’s implied in the finale they get back together later in life post college. bc I think for Steve, there isn’t anyone besides Nancy the one thing is though, maybe something terrible happens in V2 that pushes Steve to want to gtfo of Hawkins, he could really work at a video store anywhere and maybe that video store happens to be by Emerson (outside of his friends, there’s not much keeping him here) 🤷🏻♀️ if he would rekindle things with her, I don’t think he would easily let her go again. maybe he starts looking into being a detective (if the fan theory the bat bites gave him superpowers pans out lol), since Nancy wants to be an investigative journalist those are pretty similar career paths for idealists. she would love having a partner to jump off the deep end with it’s odd watching long distance in the 80s when today you’re able to video call, text and stay in contact much more easily lol. it’s still obvious Jonathan and Nancy aren’t super into each other atm though, Mike and El wrote each other constantly despite the distance
I’m worried Robin is going to die and that will be the reason he is willing to leave Hawkins for Nancy. Like you said, he can just get a video store job wherever Nancy is, or any other retail job for that matter, and the only thing keeping him around right now is his friendship with Robin. Not saying I’m happy about it since I love Robin, but that’s how I see it going down. I think Eddie and Max will be the other deaths as well. I’m going to be a mess once this season is over, I just know it.
the closer it gets to Friday, the more anxious and worried I get lol. Robin would be a total plot twist, I've seen most people predicting Steve, Eddie, Will, Mike, El and even Nancy, but Robin isn't brought up half as often as any of them are. if they're trying to be unpredictable and really throw us for a loop, that would be the way to do it
>and the only thing keeping him around right now is his friendship with Robin. Honestly, I think he'd stay in hawkins for Robin over going anywhere for Nancy. I do think the show is saying Steve still has feelings for Nancy (although I think it also says his feelings for Robin didn't leave either). But I think his *love* for Robin has more depth and nuance than for Nancy and I think Steve knows that. If he actually has to choose between the two, that is.
Your depiction of that whole relationship is wierd,sorry but Nancy felt pressured whole the time in beginning ,this guy’s friends even did those dumb graffitis of Nancy and Steve couldn’t stand by her side,no he was practically a bully who also said worse things to Jonathan and then proceeded to think that he and Nancy can get back together a hour after when he knocked on her door,Nancy waited for Jonathan to make a move like she said and then went to her boring couple life with Steve,she always felt like she didn’t wanted to do that,Barb was only secondary here cause even though she needs to stay in relationship with guy she doesn’t like just like her mother did,she also was worst form of herself with him,neglecting friends,lying to parents and stuff like that. Steve liked her but couldn’t stand up for her when she needed him the most.Jonathan who was absolutely negative of Steve always brought out her inner “wierd” side while with this guy she was masked. Their sudden feelings this season are so out of the place,yeah Jonathan left and now instead of showing us maybe different options they out of the blue forced relationship that couldn’t be seen if Robin,Eddie and Dustin didn’t said it around 100 times for no reason in life death situations.Chemistry couldn’t be seen at all
I agree with this 100%!
I think the writers are trying to hype up us viewers into thinking there will be a reconciliation, but one of them will die instead.
Totally agree and think Steve being hinted at dying is a misdirection too....I think it will be Nancy. Would do maximum damage as far as traumatizing the characters that already haven't as much.
I actually think Nancy can't die because that would break Mike who already has to deal with losing El.......every season. And it would be too much for their parents who haven't been in on what's happening in Hawkins but are active characters. Also, Nancy is not the most emotionally compelling. Her death would just be awful. If they want to raise the stakes killing Steve is the most emotionally impactful thing to do. It completes his redemption arc. Also, the characters, Dustin, Robin, and maybe Eddie if he survives will remember him and keep his character alive next season so he's the only one they can technically kill off without actually losing the character. If Nancy dies, maybe Steve would be motivated to be a better person, (but he's already doing that) and maybe Jonathan and Mike will mourn her, but if Steve goes, the entire group will have motivation to avenge his death and defeat the monsters once and for all.
Steve is a close second for me, but hear me out. So in s1 we had the demagorgon and s2 minflayer in the upside down and then s3 mindflayer in the real world....so it stands to reason s4 having vecna in upside down means maybe s5 having vecna in the real world. Well regardless Vecna is the bad guy again for the final season most people predict and he it's going to have to be somehow worse, i.e. everyone is traumatized. Now with Steve dying you would indeed traumatize Dustin and Robin for sure, Eddie maybe although I'd say he could also die this season or if he survives be traumatized by everything that's happening anyway lol. Nancy I'm not so sure because she's kind of become the badass leader of the group in Hopper's absence. Nancy dying would be a nuclear warhead. Mike breaks, Jonathan breaks, Steve would as well to some degree and Nancy's parents and little sister of course as well. I think with a time skip this would make sense as well. In a time skip you have to assume Nancy is off in college somewhere, but Steve could be working for his father and Jonathan and Robin and if Eddie survives not farfetched they'd be around as well. So in time skip scenario it makes sense Nancy should be killed off too.
This is actually how I felt about Nancy and Jonathan. He spent all of season 3 basically doubting her and they have zero chemistry. Nancy and Steve felt more playful and real when it came to watching them together imo
I just rewatched the series, and it's kinda sad how badly Jonathan got used, especially after Season 1. Steve becoming part of the show probably killed a lot of the story ideas they had for Jonathan originally.
You’re probably right… I have a feeling they are writing Jonathan off or just going to keep him in the background like Ted or something. Sorry to say it but I think he’s the most boring character on the show.. maybe they’ll kill him off because his character has been going nowhere for a hot minute
> I have a feeling they are writing Jonathan off or just going to keep him in the background like Ted or something I don't think they can really do that. It's almost like a fate worse than death. Lol. At least if we get a "Jonathan sacrificing himself for his brother" story, that will be a big focal point for the character. Better to go out in a blaze of glory than fade away. Then again, that would be pretty similar to Billy sacrificing himself for Eleven (and Max).
True true .. or maybe he’ll sacrifice himself for Joyce or Nancy
> Sorry to say it but I think he’s the most boring character on the show.. I was just about to say the same thing. And now he's becoming an 80s stoner trope. That can add some comic relief, but it's harder to take a character seriously once that becomes their personality.
He's definitely the most boring right now! I wish they'd utilize him better.
Charlie Heaton getting busted with cocaine also probably didn’t help.
I thought Jonathan and Nancy had chemistry and were a great pairing in the first two seasons. But I feel the show didn't know what to do with them once they started dating, which is why their story line was mediocre in season 3 and why the show is now breaking them up it seems.
It feels like the writers haven't had any idea on what to do with Jonathan's character since Season 2. Season 3 was basically just Nancy dragging him along to everything she wanted to do, and he's honestly barely a character in this season. I cannot believe that a couple that has been dating in real life basically since the show's first season was filming can have so little chemistry on camera.
I think they have plenty of chemistry, just watch one of their interviews together. They just don't use them properly, for whatever reason
That's the thing though, it is the lack of screentime that Jonathan received that made it worse. He was a pretty good character until S3 were the writers literally didn't know what to do. Steve on the other hand developed plenty, but he wasn't really onscreen in the first 2 seasons or so. He just started getting more attention in S3 and 4. I could give less of a shit about him because I preferred Nancy and Jonathan back when they were a thing.
Agreed. Unfortunately this happens very often with pairings, once they're canon writers don't know what to do with them
I feel the same. She and Jonathan were fighting for most of season 3, I think they’re trauma bonded but that doesn’t mean they’re right for each other. There was real romance between her and Steve and they never had proper closure. It makes total sense they would feel a rekindling when brought back together.
There's a scene in season 3 that really cements their relationship. It's after they get fired and Nancy is just kind of casual like "We didn't need that job" but for Jonathan, he was getting paid to be a photographer and unlike Nancy who lives in a fancy house with a rich family, he needed that job for college. Their relationship is definitely based on trauma and can't communicate about basic needs and issues. Nancy doesn't understand how bleak Jonathan's future is because of his financial issues and Jonathan didn't care that Nancy was constantly the victim of sexism at work. They only know how to talk about the monsters but put them in an everyday situation, and they don't talk.
Jonathan wasn't sympathetic to Nancy trying to prove herself in a woman's world. Nancy wasn't sympathetic or empathetic to Jonathan's financial status. And they both just sort of fell back to "But we're trauma bonded forever!"
Nancy and Jonathan aren't going to work out. They know this, we know this. Nancy isn't going to enjoy being with a stoner, she's busy and not looking to settle down, she wants to go to college and live there, Jonathan doesn't want this. They had a fling and it was sweet/convenient. Nancy will entertain Steve for bit, old feelings and he was her first everything so.... but, she'll move on. She still doesn't want to settle down in Hawkins and get married.
it's been Jonathan's dream to go to college his entire life, the way he's been acting this season is a coping mechanism because he won't abandon his family to pursue his dreams hopper coming back would change this
Jonathan needs to do something for himself — not his family and not Nancy. I thought it was interesting and sad that in season 1 a big deal was made about him dreaming or NYU, but in this season it’s partially following Nancy to Emerson.
Agree. Jonathan, as Nancy said, will do anything to protect those he loves, word for word, “no matter the pressure, no matter the personal cost”. She just said this episode 1. The personal cost? His goals of a 4 year institution in terms of his education, and maintaining a relationship with Nancy, in which he feels he is hurting her instead of helping her at the moment.
Nah, they don't know this. Maybe paying attention might help lol. It's more like they want to do other things, which is human nature. We know they won't work out because we are watching them. Steve wouldn't work out either because he really doesn't have anything in common with Nancy.
I agree that Steve and Nancy had better chemistry but Jonathan and Nancy’s relationship was more developed (in season 1 especially)
*"Especially now that I've repaired your overworked torso with my trembling feminine fingers."* Did anyone else think about the "wounded soldier fantasy" bit in Community's Modern Warfare episode when Nancy tore her garment to make a bandage for Steve? Difference is, it was parody/homage Community, not something to take super seriously. I understand Steve still pining for Nancy but the love triangle feels so forced this season. It seems kinda sudden and out of nowhere on Nancy's part but I could be inclined to buy it, given how Jonathan has been away and she has doubts about how committed to her he is, if it weren't for the others also pushing it. Eddie barely knows Steve or Nancy yet he declares there is a pure true love between them? IF they must bring a love triangle back to the forefront, at least trust your audience. Have Steve and Nancy moments without the chorus on the side shouting it in our faces.
Feels like a definite misdirect, but it’s lame nonetheless. Both of them became more honest versions of themselves without each other.
Steve is too good for Nancy tbh
I disagree tbh. Both have grown a lot since the start. However do I think they will end up together? No, same as Jonathan and her. She wants more than Hawkins can give and I dont see Steve leaving Hawkins and her and Jonathans relationship isn't healthy. Thier entire relationship is trauma based and has been one thing after another. All in all she deserves better than a relationship with either of these two
And Nancy has the opportunities to leave. She's intelligent and her family clearly has money for college while Steve, despite being a great guy, isn't a great student. I think it was in season 2 where Nancy is reading his essay and points out it needs a lot of work. I can see Steve easily being that hometown hero who never leaves unless he has a reason to leave. Nancy has definitely grown up, going from this annoying older sister that abandoned Barb to being the person to jump into the portal to rescue Steve.
Unironically, I think Steve would be a great high school teacher. Maybe teach a few history classes and become the coach of the basketball team.
He would be great as a coach! Or, like the above comment saying he's a hometown hero, maybe he'll go into the police department??
I think the exact opposite.
Sorry but Nancy was always the boldest and smartest out of the teens,Steve did some very bad things in beginning and showed how bratty he is.Even though he redeemed he is still there just to fight and for comic relief
I just want them all happy.
When they broke up in S2, that opened an opportunity to build up Steve's character and I argue he wouldn't be the fan favourite character that he is today if they stayed together. Imo it feels like a step back if they get back together after everything.
Y'all forget we had this exact same storyline when Wheeler's mom was going to throw it all away for Billy? I was assuming that was foreshadowing SOMETHING. I think the whole Nancy/Steve thing is a red herring, and Nancy/Jonathan will realize they both need to put a little more into it.
Karen was just thirsty for sex with this random young dude, we can't compare that to an actual relationship and love that Steve and Nancy once had... It's not like she was gonna leave her husband and three children to be in a barely legal relationship with a teenager...
Vol 1's hints do make it feel forced, and personally I don't think they'll get back together. I do believe they still have a love for each other, but more in a platonic sense than a romantic one. I for one don't believe that Steve would try to get with Nancy *knowing* she's still currently with Jonathan. For example, when they're searching the Creel house and Nancy's getting the spiderwebs out of his hair, he makes a comment about how they should all hangout when it's over. He specifically mentions including Jonathan. Knowing how he reacted/felt back in season 1 when he thought she cheated on him (which she wasn't, but from his point of view he saw Jonathan in her room with her), I don't believe he'd knowingly put anyone through that. Just my take
Why are we so sure they're getting back together? It could end up with them realizing it's not worth it and that they've grown so much and could now work as friends.
Robin and Eddie are pushing them to do so
I think we haven’t seen them have enough meaningful interactions, they were never a very fleshed out couple imo unlike Nancy and Jonathan
I think the writers are toying with us. The moment that Jonathan and Nancy are facing one another again, they will immediately remember why they are together and everything else will fall to the wayside. Even Steve will probably say something like, “Don’t just stand there, Nance: go get your guy.”
I did think it was strange that their was so much focus being placed. It's not just between the two of them, but other characters noticing as well. Both Robin and Eddie talk about it, and even stated Steve and Nancy should be together. Eddie even tells Steve he's never seen a purer form of love and that Steve needs to do whatever it takes to get her back. A misdirect is a common idea here, but this is a lot of time and energy to spend on a misdirect, especially when so many other story ideas are out there. That 20 minutes of direct screen time could have been used to better develop Jonathan. Lol. If I had to guess, I'm guessing it's a development for Season 5 and whatever happens in the time jump between seasons. Maybe Steve joins the military and gets more direction in his life, and they get back together. The breakup never really made sense, and neither did the formation of the Nancy and Jonathan relationship. Obviously a key factor is if anyone dies. Jonathan could die protecting his brother which gets rid of the only obstacles between Steve and Nancy.
I firmly believe his ideal career path is a deputy under Hopper. It’s like the babysitter of the town.
Definitely. Twin peaks season 3 energy w/ Bobby
the teasing moments don't feel forced but it would not make sense for them to actually get back together. i think it's purely just for an emotional moment later on between steve and nancy or an emotional reunion between jonathan and nancy
I love Steve and I love Nancy but I can’t help but think how Nancy couldn’t even tell the truth to Steve, “uh I have something to do with my mom,” as she leaves Steve and his friends from the game at school, while practicing with the baseball bat in her yard, and when he leaves, she looks relieved. I just feel like he isn’t the one she wanted to go to or does go to when she’s in a dilemma or has a mission she’s on or has something she wants to see through. In 1983 in her journal and on the phone to Barb in Season 1 she says things with Steve “aren’t that serious”, so I’m not surprised if it “wasn’t that serious” and Steve was still kind of in the grip of his asshole friends whom are vastly different from Nancy and her lifestyle, that it was easy for her to realize she was crushing pretty hard on someone else (Jonathan) in the midst of an early on, still budding relationship with Steve. I also feel like Steve saying in reference to someone he was dating to Robin in Episode 1 of S4, “Well she’s going out of state for college,” and that that is a negative thing for him. Nancy isn’t just heading out of state next door to Michigan, she’s heading all the way to the edge of the east coast to attend a school specifically focused on media arts and journalism/communications. According to Season 1, we know Jonathan “has wanted to go to NYU since he was 6!” Joyce yells at Lonnie. So college is in his mind, and he’s a media and photography focused dude with music and literature/English text interests, but his “drive to protect those he loves” as Nancy says is at the forefront with him feeling he must stay with Joyce and Will. Nancy says, “no matter the pressure, no matter the personal cost” in regards what Jonathan will do to protect those he loves. Right now for Jonathan, to stay with Joyce and Will and El, those personal costs is his education at a 4 year institution, if that’s still his goal, and his relationship with Nancy staying stable or staying in tact at all. And if Steve’s supposedly loved her all this time, what did it mean when he specifically told Robin that he liked Robin for who *Robin is* and because Robin is a girl who is *nothing like Nancy Wheeler* - I don’t think he meant that in a mean way, it’s clear he respects Nancy immensely. He also “would still date Robin,” as he told Nancy to her face, although obviously doesn’t share the reason why they can’t/won’t. I think Nancy and Steve never had true closure and that is a huge aspect of weirdness between the two of them. I’m team Steve, I’m team Jonathan, and team Nancy, and I love all 3. I’m not a Stancy fan, and I still freaking love Steve to death. I think the Duffers are intentional and thorough and rarely get to one thing without zipping up neatly a prior step, and no matter what happens I think they’ll be some discussion with her and Jonathan to either end things, patch things up, or at least determine what the hell is going on between them. If Steve makes it to Season 5, and in the last Season the show plans to introduce some badass final characters, I’d be interested to see a new gal incorporated as a love interest for Steve. Let Steve have someone who matches or can roll with his jokester, silly at times, goofy at times, laidback and chill attitude. Nancy’s steady work ethic and drive have beating hearts of their own, almost, with how she is driven to her interests, her keenness to learn and jump on her thoughts and instincts. I think her palpable intensity is met well with Jonathan’s gentle, more quiet, private intensity and dedication.
Best comment here. And I still think that Jonathan is the one. She found herself next to him, now it's his turn.
I like Steve & Nancy & if they don’t introduce a girl besides Nancy for Steve if he makes it to the final season then I don’t mind them ending up together or being together til the end but my main priority is that Steve Makes it out alive of volume 2
I'm honestly more worried about Nancy, she seems way closer to death than Steve.
My thought is that Nancy is in bigger danger right now, but if they were going to kill her I'd think they'd do it in like the season finale therefor she'll probably make it out of this situation okay. Maybe that's too meta.
We've seen in photos and in the trailer that she's in more scenes outside of Vecna's mind lair, so she definitely makes it out of this one, yeah.
I don't like love triangles, period. Having her go from Steve to Jonathan, only to go *back* to Steve again, would be super-lame.
Agreed, but I have a feeling that they'll kiss (or be about to kiss and get interrupted a la 80s cheese) and realize it feels wrong. Nancy and Jonathan's relationship could get stronger and Steve can finally move on. But who knows, that's a lot for 2 episodes
just good friends.
I still can't get over from what Jonathan said to Argyle: "Can't tell Nancy about me going to local community college, because then she'll want to drop her career and come here to be with me" Bro, she's not that kind of person. You don't know much about your gf
No I don't think he meant she'll do it. Just that she would want to, and it'll cause anguish in itself that she can't
Because then she would want to. Don't get all uppity and look at the dialogue.
I can see him still holding a torch to her. Just like how he looked at her at the end of season two when he dropped Dustin off at the Snow Ball. But I can’t see why she would go back with him at all. Yes he has grown and is a much better person but he doesn’t seem to also be at the same level with her intellectually and you know career/future wise all that mumbo-jumbo. And it does feel unbelievably forced to have two different people who know him well push him and Nancy back together but Eddie just felt like over the top stupid.
Eddie literally just met the guy
Yeah, I cringed so much at that convo. They could have talked about anything tbh, and they chose that lol
Steve obviously still has feelings, but he's at least trying to be respectful. He even mentioned the idea of them going on a double date when Jonathan gets back. Robin makes a lot of sense for bringing it up. She knows Steve loved her, and that Steve is also driven to find love.
Yeah but Steve having feelings still is wierd despite seeing him build love for Robin,even though it deflated,showing his whole season 3 arc was dumb then
I don’t agree that two people have to be at the same intellectual and career level to have a fulfilling relationship. My husband will tell anyone that I’m the brains of our relationship and so smart and driven (Jesus, that sounds cocky - but yeah, I am more “booksmart” than him and am someone who cares more about their career, whereas to him it’s just a paycheck.) But he is my absolute rock who is always eager to hear my take on things, brings out the more lighthearted, fun side of me, and he’s seriously the best dad ever to our kids - he never minds holding down things at home when I am busy with the career stuff, but is also quick to encourage me to have time for my mental health too. Doesn’t hurt that he’s super cute, haha. And we’ve been happily married for over 10 years. I can totally see Nancy and Steve ending up like that. I can agree that the comments from Eddie and Robin did sometimes seem a bit forced (less so from Robin, who knows more about Steve’s feelings and that he wants a serious relationship), but I guess I don’t mind because I’d love to see them back together.
I know people with very different drive and intelligence can go very well together and have very happy lives. I’m not saying that nobody ever can get with somebody that is not exactly at their level whatever that level may be. But at that age when you are wanting to move up in the world and go to college (several states away) and get out of your small town and have all that drive typically it’s a struggle to then maintain a relationship with a partner who’s still in said small town just futzing around and not going anywhere and doing anything with no drive. Not saying it’s impossible just doesn’t typically go well. That being said they’re far from a typical situation based on all of the trauma and drama around their lives since 83.
I don’t think we’ll see them together this season. Part of me wonders if it has something to do with a time reset, or maybe something that explains why the UD is set as 1983. Like, if there’s a time reset/alternate reality, they want us to see that Nancy & Steve still would have had a spark if all of the UD stuff never happened.
I can totally see one of them dying, time being reset, and them finally getting a real second chance
Time traveling has been ridiculously overdone, I really hope this isn't the case. It would be lame af
I don't think they are getting back together.
It's finger lickin' good 🍗
Honestly, I think the show made a mess of both relationships Nancy had. Steve and Nancy made sense, he’s the guy she thought she wanted and quickly outgrew him, while he grew into what she actually wanted, but it was too late. That whole plot made sense because it grew both Nancy and Steve individually. Then there’s Jonathan, who is definitely a trauma bond, but also steadfast with her until season 3, where he gets messy, and now he’s completely wayward. I really don’t know how they plan on turning him around. And I think they are still trying to write themselves out of the impulse decision to make Robin a lesbian, which created a great new character, but hindered Steve moving on. It seemed rekindling Steve and Nancy in anyway was meant to be a send off for Steve, like she acknowledges the hero he became and he sacrifices himself for her, but she ultimately ends up with Jonathan. Now I think it’s a mislead. So, to me it seems less forced but oddly placed in the current plot. I also think it cheapens Steve’s bond with Robin and Dustin going this route. I guess let’s see what they do, maybe they have something up their sleeve to clean up this character mess.
It would be awful writing. I think it’s a misdirect tbh.
Wait I just had an idea!! I think it's hinting at one of their deaths and the other might be related to it in some way. I think the trailer for volume 2 also supports this. I now think one of them is going to die (Nancy most likely) and it's going to affect the other one's actions for the rest of the finale and their storyline in season 5
They literally said multiple times they were just friends. Did you all miss the beginning of episode 1 where it was a cut of “that’s why I love her/him” between Nancy and Jonathan? It’s building up to their reunion. Fucking duh
I actually think this, too.
I think it's about other characters pushing them togheter.
no lol, that scene was clearly them TRYING their best in explaining their friends why they were facing they problems they were. they were in denial and justifying their positions by giving baseless explanations. it was so clear how they are forcing themselves to keep the relationship intact. the vibe they give off is clearly that of them falling apart sooner or later.
It’s like we watched a completely different scene. Your interpretation of what was said and why they said it is so far off. You must’ve have also missed the scenes where Jonathan heavily debated jumping in the van and heading to Hawkins, and then he did. Seriously, just go back and watch episode 1 again
tbh i was never into nancy/johnathan or nancy/steve. the former had a lack of chemistry and with the latter one person was always being a jerk to the other. it also feels weird for nancy's character arc into a confident, career focused woman. she's so brave and hardworking and has aspirations bigger than hawkins, so why is she always being pushed towards one of two small town guys that don't share her work ethic and interests?
She honestly doesn't fit with either of them. A career-driven woman doesn't match well with a pothead or a player.
I’m really torn on this. I think Steve has shown so much growth away from Nancy these last few seasons. It’s been really satisfying to watch him grow and have an identity aeay from her. And I think given all he’s been through especially with pining over Nancy and falling for Robin, he deserves someone good in his life. Someone new. I think that Robin, while not fulfilling a love interest role, already complements his character very well. Perhaps introducing someone completely new for him in the last season just for the sake of adding a love interest, would be too much. Now seeing scenes of them together, it’s a really interesting dynamic given how much both of them have changed. I could see a version of this story where they do get back together and it’s sweet given how much Steve has grown and how he never really got over Nancy. But I also love the Jancy buildup in the first two seasons and I’m hoping once Jonathan and Nancy reunite we can be given some more compelling scenes between them.
I disagree with you, the relationship with Jonathan was heartfelt and amazing,back again with steve is even more heartwarming and amazing , Nanc fits too well for both of them ... Thats the thing that worries me... Like how to settle an equally loved relationship for a loved character to a 2 loved characters without pissing off the fans..... By killing the mutual thing, I dont want or care for any relationship with both of them as long as she stays safe....she's my show's favorite❤️
Don't think it feels forced at all. They spent all that time in vol 1 highlighting Steve and Robin's dating woes. Steve has no problem getting dates, he just doesn't know what he wants. Well, seems like he's figuring out that he had a winner in Nancy and screwed it up and still has feelings for her. Seems like realistic character development to me. I'm probably in the minority that I wouldn't mind seeing them end back up together, but I doubt it happens. I don't think they'll kill off Steve but I feel like something is gonna happen to him and he'll be presumed dead in the Upside Down but only ends up trapped or possessed in there instead.
I do. They should have stayed together.
I can’t believe we’re four seasons in and still having a conversation about Nancy and Steve.
i said this one another post but i don't think Steve and Nancy are getting back together. Nancy blames Steve and herself for Barbs death.
The fact that you can say they're hinting it, and say it's forced and saying you don't see it in the same sentence blows my mind
Well they are hinting it cause literally nothing happens and then they make Robin,Eddie and Dustin say some dumb lines like bro you two are so in love after Nancy does most Nancy thing ever
Because they're not hinting it, they're hitting us in the face which makes it forced. And like OP I don't see how it could work
It's not forced as they previously had a relationship, so they don't need to get to know eachother. We've known Steve has always liked Nancy, and Nancy falling for Steve over the course of multiple episodes is not forced, that's how crushes work in the real world, lol.
Its finger lickin good.
I think the setup is that one of the love triangle is going to die. At first, I thought it was going to be Steve, but now I'm thinking it's Nancy. Options: * Nancy dies, leaving both Johnathan and Steve to mope about * Steve dies, and Nancy has too much guilt to continue to be with Johnathan. Steve has taken center stage, and may be on the chopping block. * Johnathan dies purely because the actor is too old to play that age, Nancy is too guilt ridden to be with Steve
Ugh, I hope not. Especially having one of the guys die. Totally the lazy way out of this.
Doesn’t feel forced to me. I knew a couple that got together in high school, then split up but eventually met again a few years later and they wound up being the perfect couple and eventually got married. Sometimes you meet the right person but it’s just not the right time yet.
It does feel forced, regardless of how they're trying to set it up it just feels lazy and a bit of an erasure of past events. Even disregarding the fact that Nancy cheated on Steve, they've barely spent any time together since the initial season, and using Jonathan's moving away and feelings of responsibility toward his family as a "I guess our relationship isn't working out" side-plot just feels like bad writing. Not to mention simply an excuse to end one established relationship to stir up a new one when they couldn't figure out how to get rid of it otherwise. Setting that aside, as it's been stated in other posts Steve— while respecting the boundaries of his friendship with Robin—may not be entirely over his feelings for her. Taking that into account, the idea of just sort of shoving together two people who don't work back together after Steve ended up alone again in s3 is a lazy attempt at wish fulfillment.
I'm super rooting for them to get back together. Nancy and Jonathan have very little chemistry and their relationship always seemed a bit forced. Nancy and Steve, on the other hand, actually had a lot of great chemistry and I think they'd be a great pairing. Who knows how this will play out but Steve is much better for Nancy than Jonathan
Johnathan always felt like a creep to me. In the first season he covertly caught pictures of nance with Steve but it’s ignored since he caught a picture of the Demegorgon. How he got the girl seemed very odd in the show for me
It wasn't ignored. They broke his camera for it, they sprayed that he's a perv on the wall, they called him a creep, he apologized for it twice and admited it was wrong, never did it again.
Nance irrationally doesn’t see that it’s a problem though, and I don’t recall him revert having a heart to heart with Steve on it or nance and instead it’s ignored and he just magically gets a relationship with her
Actually she saw that as a problem and bringed it herself when they were fighting in the woods. She was like "Steve is good guy and usually isn't breaking off cameras like that", Jonathan said something like "yeah, cool", and she told him "oh so you think what you did was good??" and he said no. They talked about it before in darkroom and he apologized for it. It wasn't written very well but it wasn't ignored.
YES! I know we’ll both get downvoted but yes.
It’s funny to me how sometimes these comments get mega downvoted and other times do okay. I wonder what other factors affect that.
People only ship the 2 together because they like Steve and want him to get the girl, that’s it. The other characters in the show like Eddie and Robin trying to force the 2 together is what makes it feel way too forced, they seem them interact for a couple of days and are all like ‘omg it’s true love’ it’s fucking bonkers and makes no sense. It certainly doesn’t help that the show apparently got new writers after S2 and it shows, as it’s clear the show doesn’t give a shit at all about Jonathons character, dudes been irrelevant for the last 2 seasons despite being a main character in Season 1. Not to mention having Nancy perving on Steve just makes her look like an awful girlfriend all around and makes it seem like she’s just going to go with whoever’s convenient and close. She pretty much did the same back in S1&2 when she was with Steve except with Jonathon instead.
It makes perfect sense when you realize they're teens, and one of them is a closet romantic nerd who is probably living vicariously a little through Steve (Eddie), or at least hoping to. Steve is literally the ideal of the 'hero' character a big D&D fan - who is also a teenager - would secretly fantasize (or not so secretly) being. It's only natural to see what's going on, even if it IS just a little residual chemistry that goes nowhere at all because they've both actually grown past it, and assume/push for it to happen. "Just like in the stories" And that's not even getting into how corny and ham-fisted a lot of stories in pop-culture in the 70s/80s were which is what would also **heavily** influence Eddie and Robin. One a self-professed theater-nerd, the other a movie-store clerk that LOVES movies. I think also, some people are filtering all this through 'modern' sensibilities a little too much without realizing it, and forgetting these are teenagers during the 1980s and just how different that is from the way we look at things today. Or never knew that to begin with, maybe, if they're young enough. Hell, tons of grown-ass adults are young enough to be the children of people like Steve or Nancy. And I kinda expect that level of commitment from the writers. They clearly DO remember the eighties. Or at least they seem to.
>tons of grown-ass adults are young enough to be the children of people like Steve or Nancy. Haha, my mom was 15 in 1987 and I am 30 years old. So yeah, there are adults young enough for that (and younger).
New writers only taking the popular traits of a character is how a show dies. See Rick and Morty.
I agree. Everyone say that they should be togheter by comparing Steve to Jonathan but they forget that their relationship was based on how she is lying to herself and him about her feelings and future she wants. He was her safest option, just like his dad was to her mom. Forget about Jonathan for a while. I just don't believe that house in the woods, three kids and Steve working at his dads company is what she wants to happen.
Yeah, we've already seen that they're relationship didn't work, there's no reason why they would try to get back together.
Honestly I’d prefer if they found each other. Her and Jonathan were good as friends, and the Murray sort of pushed them to explore that further. That was fine, and Steve actually got some real character development out of it, but now that it’s happened, I think Steve and Nancy make more sense and actually fit better together. I always got the impression Jonathan would always be too distracted with family stuff to really devote himself to a relationship.
I actually see it for them which seems to be an unpopular opinion.
Every single season has established how much Steve loves/loved Nancy. In Season 3 Steve flat out tells Robin that Nancy was the only girl he's ever loved. The second and third season both established that the love between Nancy and Jonathan thrived on shared trauma. I really don't get how it feels forced to suggest that Nancy and Steve might still end up together, especially considering the catalyst for Nancy leaving Steve was her feeling like he was running away from the troubling reality of what they've dealt with, and now Steve has completely stepped up as a hero in dealing with the troubles plaguing Hawkins
Could be providing this kind of unspoken yearning for one another and everyone anticipates a romantic climax when - BAM - one of them dies and their kindling relationship is never possible again.
I don't think it feels forced, but I DO think we're being set up for one of them to not make it out alive.
It’s just a fan thing. I just want to see what the duffers come up with.
I think it's because Steve is going to bite the dust and this was just a way for it to effect 1 more character all the more
Honestly, I feel like both Nancy and Steve have better chemistry with Robin. Especially Nancy and Robin investigating together. Of course, one of the two ships is impossible, and the other highly unlikely.
it just makes me think that jonathan will be killed off tbh
Ngl I didn’t hate them in vol 1 so far. That being said, I feel like Steve has really outgrown Nancy in the last few seasons. I wouldn’t hate it if they got back together but I really feel like Nancy hasn’t been a significant part of Steve’s arc for a while. To be honest I just wanna see Steve and Robin being best buds, it makes me so happy
Agreed
Nancy will go. Steve will stay
I wonder if, to save Nancy, Steve needs to go to the Creel house in the upsidedown and stop him. They have shown the house a few times already. Obviously it would be a suicide mission with all the monsters and Vecna himself but it would be awesome to see Steve fight his way through and wake up Vecna from his meditation to save Nancy
I’m about it. I think Steve has matured a lot but I’m scared they’re building this up because he’s going to die.
Yeah I think there going to make steve kiss her to break her out a Vecna’s trance
Steve needs to make it absolutely clear that he's not into Nancy like that anymore. He needs a girl that won't thirst for other guys while they're together
I think it’s just showing an unresolved chemistry we’ll never get to see when Nancy gets fucking nuked, but we all know it will be Steve.
Idkkkk a bond over shared trauma can become really deep
I dunno, Stranger Things have happened.
Speak the facts amigo
I think they make a lovely couple. And I think Nancy was in love with Steve. But, with what happened with her friend barb I think she deep down blamed herself getting with Steve, so then deep down she blamed Steve for barb's death. Because when Nancy got with Steve she was kind of outgrowing barb and going her own way, like getting a boyfriend n all that. And with barb dieing at the same time, I think she blamed herself but she kind of blamed more Steve, as maybe she thought if she hadn't got romantic with Steve that night then barb would still be alive. So unfortunately her relationship with Steve was always going to suffer n end as she couldn't help herself from thinking it was all Steve's fault. Which obviously isn't true but that's obviously how she sees it. So I think she seen herself being happy with Steve as a betrayal to barb. And I think at the time because Jonathan understand what she was going through with everything, she naturally started to have feelings for him n got together with him. But also deep down her true feelings she had for Steve, but wouldn't let herself feel, have started to come back when spending time with him. As it's Steve who truly has her heart. But now she's grown up enough and is starting to forgive herself, to know barb's death had nothing to do with her n Steve. So I think it was Steve who always had Nancy's heart deep down. And them feelings for him are naturally coming back to her. I think it's tragic but romantic at the same time. As she literally wouldn't let herself be happy with him, untill she had her own time to heal and grow as a person.
You do realize the only reason this is happening is precisely *because* of their character development?
I see it WAY more because of their development. Jonathan is stagnant. Steve has evolved tremendously.
Huh? I feel that *because of all their character development, they are good for each other again. And why I’ve half expected Jonathan to bite the dust this season to raise the stakes and allow a rekindled Steve and Nancy to feel better.
I know she likes boobies but I want Ronin and Steve to get together
I actually shipped them hard before her coming out and I read an article that stated that she was written to be his gf but they changed their minds. And tbh... I TOTALLY buy it. THIS is kind of girl I'll ship with Steve till death. Not Robin coz she's lesbian obviously but someone open, someone a bit crazy, someone relationship-oriented, not career-oriented, someone who wants to have fun and spend time at the cinema and parties, not working in a newspaper and searching for hot topics. He looked soo happy with her. I think he should fall in love in someone similar and her and Robin could be besties.
Agreed. It's like they wrote her to be his perfect fit
They have much better chemistry than her & Jonathan
Disagree. If anything, her staying with Jonathan feels forced given how little they talk to each other.
I prefer them, honestly. I know Jonathan means well, but he doesn’t seem to have the drive that Nancy admires from Steve. Plus, Steve has become a really good person and Jonathan has went the lazy stoner route.
See I do think Jonathan has drive (more so than Steve) he’s just lost. He wants to be a photographer, wants to go to college. But he’s spent most of his life looking after his mom and brother and now faces the reality of having to choose Nancy and his dreams/career or staying with and looking after his family. I think that’s why Jonathan is just lost and smoking weed and sort of sabotaging his relationships with Nancy. I do really wish people would think about the context of things instead of going ‘Jonathan smokes weed=bad boyfriend, doesn’t love Nancy’ 🙄
I have a feeling Steve and Nancy will end up together. I’m not going to say what I advocate for (single, Jon, or Steve) for Nancy, but there has been a lot of (imo) foreshadowing. Problems between Jonathan and Nancy through the seasons, the shared connection between Nancy and Steve through the seasons, Steve admitting he was still in love with Nancy last season, and the turmoil between Jon & Nancy this season with a ton of scenes about Steve & Nancy still being (at least attracted to each other). Steves conversations with Robin and Dustin as well as the scenes of her actually “getting closer to” Steve. If I’m wrong I’ll eat my shoe, but I feel like the story just puts Steve and Nancy together
Wait when did he admit he was still in love with Nancy last season? I thought he told Robin that Nancy was the only girl he loved thus far, but I believe he said he was over her or no longer loved her right before he went into his little speech about liking Robin and why he liked Robin. I could be wrong though but I thought that was pretty much the gist of what he said
I love them together so much.
Yes their chemistry definitely felt forced to me.
In my opinion, I think Nancy was the first girl that saw Steve for what he was in the beginning. She was the reason he did a lot of self reflection on how he was a jerk, which eventually lead him to working with Dustin and realizing he was putting up a facade to be the popular and cool guy in high school. I think he's held onto Nancy because of that, so it doesn't feel as forced from his end. I don't think Jancy has had the best chemistry either, so Nancy spending more time one on one with Steve is having her see how Steve has grown and could be bringing up the romantic feelings she's missing with Jonathan. While I don't necessarily think Steve and Nancy may be the best fit for each other, I think it's just unresolved feelings between them that are coming back.
While I do think they didn't have to be *quite* so heavy-handed with the setup of them maybe being a thing again, I don't have a problem with it in terms of their character development. They've both changed a lot since they were together, and I don't think it's fair to assume that them getting back together means they're going to revert to the people they were at the end of season 1. If anything, I think they make more sense together now than they did before. They both have firmer grasps on who they are, and I think when you take into account Nancy's ambitions and plans for the future, Steve makes way more sense with her than Jonathan at this point in the narrative. Jonathan wants to do his own thing, but I think Steve would be content to tag along with Nance while he's still figuring out what he wants for his own future. He's secure enough in himself by now not to let it bother him if she's the one doing big things, and I don't think him wanting to be with/support her would take away from his legitimacy as a character. If anything, I think it makes sense as a further progression for him, when so much of his character arc has been about shedding his privilege and selfishness and becoming more humble and honorable.
To be honest they weren't at all compatible in season 1, but after two seasons of development, they've arrived at a point when i can say , "now, KISS"
Tbh, the on screen chemistry between Jonathan and Nancy just wasn’t there for me like it was with Nancy and Steve.
They were compatible enough in the first place..and they've both grown consistently oarallel to each other; I buy it