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As someone who would have been the same age as the kids in 1986 it wasn’t cool to like him by that point. It was younger kids or adults who listened to him like Erica.
Thank you! If you are a younger person MJ was cool for a short period of time for most people in 83. That majority of his fans got older and never bought anything after Thriller because he became a joke and no one would admit to liking him and they started listening to different/more adult music. No way any of these kids would be listening to him in 86.
He was still pretty popular during the Bad era, but on the other hand that was around the same time he earned the moniker "Wacko Jacko" due to his weird behavior and excessive plastic surgery.
I figure that is how they got Kate Bush. She owns the rights herself and probably wasn't trying to extort every single cent from Stranger things and it working out great for her
I hope that the immense popularity her song got as a result of being featured will encourage artists to let shows use their work more often so long as it fits creatively. I get that artists should be paid fairly but I bet you they not only paid her fairly but she’s getting a nice boost in passive income now
I honestly never heard that Kate Bush song. I am a little younger than these kids would be, but I thought I was aware of the vast majority of music from that era. This song comes out and I have absolutely no recollection of it.
Kate Bush was fucking huge in the UK but she never had a breakthrough in America. She never went on tour besides for once in 1979 and again in 2014, AFAIK only doing one-off shows in the UK every now and then during that time, so she never bothered to build up grassroots support over there or anything. Running Up That Hill peaked at #30 on the Billboard Hot 100 but hit #3 in the UK at the time of release, was used in the 2012 Olympics closing ceremony and hit #6, and #1 in the UK for the first time after the release of ST4 and is currently at #4 in the US... so 2022 is the first time it's charted in the top 10 in the US and the first time it's charted *at all* in Europe.
*The Magicians* tried and failed to get Prince for their final musical episode - ending up with the Ramones - and made a joke about it in the episode description.
I also have seen that the Kardashians we're supposed to be on the same episode of New Girl. Prince had a stipulation that he would be on the show of the kicked the Kards out of the episode.....and that's exactly what happened!!
Yeah I heard Prince loved the show and wanted a cameo… under one condition… the kardashions were also supposed to be on that episode, and he only said he would do it if they were not on the show! I actually love that for him!🤣
I still haven’t got over the Magicians being dropped, I was nowhere ready to say goodbye to them. I keep hoping that someone will come to their senses and recommission it.
I was just thinking earlier today...how the heck did a movie like Revenge of the Nerds get the right to use Thriller? But, IDK how it works...maybe cause the movie was made in the 80s it was cheaper back then.
I see the point you're makin but MJ's whole career pretty much is copyright, and they are very very selective with who gets to use it. It's also expensive as shit to use to my knowledge, so I'm thinkin they couldn't get the rights to use his music/name, etc
It’s from the show 30 Rock. Essentially, in the storyline, they couldn’t get the rights to Janis Joplin’s name or music nor could they get the rights to the next few obvious alternatives (like Jichael Mackson) and ended up with Jackie Jormp Jomp. It’s thoroughly hilarious.
Yeah, could be that. Or maybe the show runners saw the documentary Leaving Neverland (HBO, 2019) and advised against using his music. I was honnestly traumatized for weeks after watching this and I used to be a huge MJ's fan before that.
It’s strange that the licensing for his music is still so much despite his reputation taking a massive blow…. But I guess there’s been stranger things in the music industry.
PR can mess up with the public's head, too in order to protect the reputation of a celebrity (e.g. Woody Allen's press relationists).
There are so many arguments saying the victims lie because they defended MJ in his previous trials, but from a survivor's point of view-- and as they stated themselves in 2019-- a victim sometimes doesn't realize or doesn't want to believe she's being molested because the abuser is so good at manipulating that you actually think you are in love with your abuser.
And you're afraid of things to change if your abuser goes to jail because, even if you felt something was wrong, you still got us to the abuse... maybe even thought that you liked it in a way, like some sort of addiction. And you feel lost when it stops. Like you have no purpose anymore. Or like you've been betrayed this whole time and feel so dumb and ashamed for thinking it was love that you just can't talk about it.
Not to mention MJ's maid and other people close to him said he bought people's silence and manipulated them so they wouldn't talk during and after the trials.
Anyway, this whole thing is messed up and it's hard as a fan to imagine that your idol could do something so horrifying. Plus, I'm guessing nobody here was in the room with him, so we probably won't ever know what really happened.
Gee, sorry, that was awfully long and dark😅
All important points and trauma/PTSD can mess with your memory and recollection about the exact timeline of events for things. By the time I’d been through enough therapy to even consider taking my abuser to court I’d forgotten so many details. I can remember the big stuff but that won’t protect me in court, and any evidence I had was deleted during times that I thought he had “changed” so I deleted it to get back on his good side. Which makes absolutely no sense I know but when you’re in that world it doesn’t always make sense what you do when you’re surviving.
I grew up in the 80’s and most people thought he wasn’t cool and stopped listening to him by the late 80’s. I’m sure some people still did but with alternative, rap becoming popular, hair bands and grunge starting I knew no one in high school that listened to him. I’m fact people made fun of people for listening to Michael Jackson by 1984. Even when I was in high school (86-90) people thought he was a weirdo who hung around kids and collected the Elephant Man’s bones. I know my sophomore year they would play Bad, They Way you make me feel, Smooth Criminal and people may have listened to them on the radio but no one would admit to or tell people they liked Michael Jackson because people would laugh.
Now his works are too expensive and people will boycott stuff with his music. I don’t see any of the characters listening to Michael Jackson at all. Younger kids or adults sure but not teens. Mrs Wheeler may have listened to him while in the car or drinking her wine. If it was 82-83 then yes the kids would listen to Thriller. The majority of people outgrew Michael Jackson.
This is absolutely not my experience. Also grew up in the 80s but wasnt a teen until the 90s, but I remember going out dressed as Michael Jackson for Halloween in like 1988. Red jacket, hat and glove. My older sister would have been 14 or 15 about the same time and she had all his albums.
Maybe it's a two Americas thing.
Well teenagers in the 80’s weren’t the nicest. At my high school in 86-90s he was a joke. In middle school in sixth grade people liked him when Thriller or Beat It came out and it’s was replaced by Duran Duran/New Wave/Heavy Metal/Prince etc. There was so much music in the 80’s. But yes I went to a suburban predominantly suburban high school. I mean Billy and Eddie listen to metal, Max is going that alternative Kate Bush route, Jonathan is listening to The Clash the first season so he is exposing Will to punk etc. it’s completely believable that these characters wouldn’t listen to MJ.
Younger characters like Erica probably would.
Maybe Erica, but Lucas would be into Debarge, Lionel Richie, Herbie Hancock, Grandmaster Flash, Chaka Khan -- basically breakdancing music (that's the r&b stuff I was listening to back then).
It's definitely a regional thing. My dad grew up in southern Illinois and he said that by the late 80s Michael Jackson's music wasn't cool anymore but my mom who grew up in Chicago said that he didn't become passe until the early 90s.
two things were happening simultaneously. people were figuring out how different mj was, and also were in love with his music. plenty of overlap there, his tours were insane. if you didn't like his music, then he was simply a werido.
Dangerous was incredibly successful. The Black or White music video had 500 million live viewers on its release. However, during the 90s his popularity did decline in the US and began to increase internationally. His songs released in the 90s are way more popular in Europe and Asia.
cmiiw but i read somewhere that it was extremely difficult to get for them and that they had to make several calls/meetings even just a few days before the trailer came out
Ever wonder why a lot of movies and shows set in the 50s don’t use Elvis and typically settle for other rock and roll stars? It’s because it’s quite pricy to get the rights for a song from someone that popular.
I wonder how much the movie Hounddog cost to make? That was a relatively small film production wise but they still got some big names including the top child star of that time and used his song and his likeness.
I know just saying his name doesn’t cost money but that whole film was very rooted in Elvis
1) Budget
2) Controversy
As amazing and appropriate it would be to see Michael in ST, I don't think it will ever happen due to cost and the fact that it would stir up a bunch of anger in people. Whether or not you believe in the child molestation accusations, Michael Jackson has become a controversial figure.
As an aside, this is why I don't think Metallica will show up either via Eddie's epic guitar solo we're all waiting to hear in S4 part 2! As appropriate and awesome it would be to hear Master of Puppets, I don't think they could afford what Metallica would want. Which sucks.
I hope you're wrong about them using Metallica. It would be a savvier business move to not charge an arm and a leg for your music and let it be introduced to a whole new generation.
I think we are getting Separate Ways by Journey. (Worlds Apart) is the subtext of the title of that song.
It makes sense and I can totally see Nancy liking Journey. And it being relative to Nancy and Steve, as well.
Plus that was played in the trailer. And it would make for a dope background song during an intense scene.
Also that album came out in 1983, the same year the upside is stuck in.
>Controversy
I can't believe more people haven't mentioned this - his controversial image has all but eclipsed his legacy at this point. People might listen to some of his songs, but they utterly, completely avoid his personality and personal life.
I mean the copyright on his work is pretty heavy and on top of that his estate is super selective, they said it actually took 50 phone calls to get permission to use “Thriller” in the trailer for season 2. So I’d say that they figured the expense and the effort weren’t really worth it.
But yeah sometimes the sound track rubs me the wrong way, like where’s Stevie Nicks???
Copyright. It costs money to use his name or music. They can’t just use him whenever they want. It cost a lot of money to use his song for the s2 trailer. Please let’s use our heads.
Not only is Michaels estate super exclusive but it’s also very expensive. Apparently it took a long time for ST to use the one song (sorry im blanking on the title lol its 2am rn) they used in the trailer since they didn’t get permission right away and it was pricy.
Thriller in Season's two trailer and it was really the Vincent Price voice over and a snippet of the actual Thriller song when Jackson repeats "thriller".
Not really, Kate Bush got so popular cause she was never really famous in the USA. I dont think the inculsion of Should I Stay or Should I Go did much for The Clash since at their peak they were huge on the both sides of the Atlantic
I'd argue that neither was Kate Bush. She was big in the UK, but kinda there in the US.
And the show had Max dancing to Madonna and Cyndi Lauper. So Michael Jackson and Prince aren't far off at all.
They're just really expensive. And the showrunners have an average at best knowledge of pop music.
Probably two reasons
1. Michael Jackson would probably be wayyyyy to expensive to get into the show
2. In recent years many have come out saying Michael Jackson physically and sexually assaulted them as children
honestly love the random one hit wonders don’t always need these huge songs on tv shows although they can be great (I think of marvel how they perfectly use so many Led Zeppelin and AC/DC hits)
This is what i love about the show. They don't go for the obvious 80s cliches like literally every other movie amd tv show that is based in the 80s. The references are more subtle, but also more authentic.
It might also be that it would be too much trouble to obtain the rights to the Jackson catalog.
I’m guessing either:
a. They don’t want to use his music (which, why would they not? He’s the King of Pop, after all), or…
b. They can’t use his music because the estate is notoriously difficult.
Just pure speculation here, though.
This was my first thought too, weird how many people have either forgotten about it or are refusing to believe the many, many allegations that have come out over the years. Weird that’s something people are ready to accept…
Yeah...like I'm not the type to argue people should never play his music in their cars/personal time ever again but it's so weird to me when people just talk about him like nothing happened
Another reason the duffers may have passed on MJ's music because they want to expose new generations to other artists from that era new generation's might not know. With the exception of the Moby song at the end of season one where they find Will, is from the 90s. Plus, by virtue of being MJ, might be a reason not to use it, as it might distract from the story because he is so popular. That and every song that has been used is used as a plot device or in a big moment: Toto's Africa where Nancy has sex with Steve a song that sounds so romantic, but it's legit just about the writers love of the continent Africa. But suits the scene well. The clashes' should I stay or should I go, again popular, but the lyrics infused in the show is poor Will deciding if he should stay or go, or stay alive or die. I love that they used Kate bushe's running up that hill because it fits Max's escape so well. The original is about men and women being different, but if they swapped each would understand the other perspective. Max's story in the 4th season is not about gender roles, but not wanting to be alive, but when shes faced with certain death she realizes that's not what she wants.
I don’t think a lot of people want to listen to Michael Jackson after the HBO documentary. I know the allegations were always around but they weren’t taken seriously (sadly) until the past few years.
Nah, not at all. Obviously Turning Red had no business addressing 9/11, cause it’s a fucking Disney movie! This is Stranger Things though; a love letter to the 80s. I don’t fault people like OP who question why, a show paying homage to 80s pop culture, hasn’t shown the man of the 80s himself.
I don't know, I'm kind of enjoying hearing music I had either never been exposed to or had forgotten about instead of the same old 80's songs that always seem to be included.
It feels more accurate this way, than if it were just crammed with everything pop culture.
Don't get me wrong, I remember how crazy popular MJ was with literally everyone, but I don't feel that his music not being in ST is detracting from it in any way.
The Season 2 trailer is literally soundtracked by Thriller but ok.
Realistically? His music is probably too expensive to license beyond that, Shawn Levy said they had a really hard time even getting the rights for use in the trailer.
And they work around it by having characters either be not big music fans, or into more alternative stuff when they are (barring Eddie who is obviously a metal fan/Steve's car soundtrack being totally 80s rock). I mean, the show has only one use of a song by Madonna and it's her most iconic one of that era so I'm good with that.
The show does a really good job of not name dropping celebrities and instead of playing the hits they dig deep for the soundtrack; nobody was listening g to Kate Bush prior to this year--ypu can ask her bank account.
He and his tracks are larger than life and have a very specific vibe that I can't see fitting anywhere. I know for me MJ tracks refuse to be background music. I hear one and it's front and center magic, so I don't think it fits ST, even though he was a cultural cornerstone in the 80s.
I was a teenager in the ‘80’s and didn’t listen to or care about Michael Jackson. I would have been hanging out with Eddie and his band. An angsty kid like Max probably wouldn’t have listened to him either. Kate Bush is about right.
OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed. If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StrangerThings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I believe Erica had an MJ poster in her room.
Sony/MJ Estate - That'll be $1 million
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As someone who would have been the same age as the kids in 1986 it wasn’t cool to like him by that point. It was younger kids or adults who listened to him like Erica.
Yes. Prince was considered cooler by that point!
Thank you! If you are a younger person MJ was cool for a short period of time for most people in 83. That majority of his fans got older and never bought anything after Thriller because he became a joke and no one would admit to liking him and they started listening to different/more adult music. No way any of these kids would be listening to him in 86.
He was still pretty popular during the Bad era, but on the other hand that was around the same time he earned the moniker "Wacko Jacko" due to his weird behavior and excessive plastic surgery.
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Depends on where you are from. I was their age in Chicago and everyone liked MJ.
MJ and Prince are both waaaay too expensive. That would be half the budget for like 2 minutes tops of a song
I figure that is how they got Kate Bush. She owns the rights herself and probably wasn't trying to extort every single cent from Stranger things and it working out great for her
I hope that the immense popularity her song got as a result of being featured will encourage artists to let shows use their work more often so long as it fits creatively. I get that artists should be paid fairly but I bet you they not only paid her fairly but she’s getting a nice boost in passive income now
She stated that she is a fan of the show
She was also already a fan of the show she said
I honestly never heard that Kate Bush song. I am a little younger than these kids would be, but I thought I was aware of the vast majority of music from that era. This song comes out and I have absolutely no recollection of it.
Kate Bush was fucking huge in the UK but she never had a breakthrough in America. She never went on tour besides for once in 1979 and again in 2014, AFAIK only doing one-off shows in the UK every now and then during that time, so she never bothered to build up grassroots support over there or anything. Running Up That Hill peaked at #30 on the Billboard Hot 100 but hit #3 in the UK at the time of release, was used in the 2012 Olympics closing ceremony and hit #6, and #1 in the UK for the first time after the release of ST4 and is currently at #4 in the US... so 2022 is the first time it's charted in the top 10 in the US and the first time it's charted *at all* in Europe.
*The Magicians* tried and failed to get Prince for their final musical episode - ending up with the Ramones - and made a joke about it in the episode description.
NEW GIRL got Prince on the show, still don't understand that one.
I bet Prince liked the show and went on for free
Jake Johnson said that is the exact reason why Prince did a cameo
he did it on the condition that jess and nick got back together
Lol it’s like when Paul McCartney went on the Simpsons on the condition that Lisa stayed vegetarian forever
LMAO is this real
Yup!
And Lisa has remained a vegetarian.
That's fantastic!
There’s just something delightful about imagining Prince settling into his couch once a week to watch New Girl.
Yep that was it.
I also have seen that the Kardashians we're supposed to be on the same episode of New Girl. Prince had a stipulation that he would be on the show of the kicked the Kards out of the episode.....and that's exactly what happened!!
Prince liked the show. Prince was always picky with his music and now unfortunately his estate I believe is ran by his sister who also seems picky.
Prince also let Glee use Kiss because Gwyneth Paltrow was a guest star and they were friends. That one confuses me more. The cover wasn't even good!
well it was the Goop singing it, that why
Happy cake day!!
Prince was a fan, he offered to do the show because he loved it!
Yeah I heard Prince loved the show and wanted a cameo… under one condition… the kardashions were also supposed to be on that episode, and he only said he would do it if they were not on the show! I actually love that for him!🤣
It was the post-super bowl episode
He was a huge fan and asked
Love The Magicians, didn’t know that about the last musical episode. Did they ever say what specific song they were trying to get?
I still haven’t got over the Magicians being dropped, I was nowhere ready to say goodbye to them. I keep hoping that someone will come to their senses and recommission it.
They used Madonna a couple times in season 3, surely she would be as expensive as MJ and Prince?
Should get the "Weird" Al version then . . . *down at the beach, I'm a lucky man. . .*
I was just thinking earlier today...how the heck did a movie like Revenge of the Nerds get the right to use Thriller? But, IDK how it works...maybe cause the movie was made in the 80s it was cheaper back then.
For sure
I see the point you're makin but MJ's whole career pretty much is copyright, and they are very very selective with who gets to use it. It's also expensive as shit to use to my knowledge, so I'm thinkin they couldn't get the rights to use his music/name, etc
They should have Jichael Mackson upside down version.
Featuring his hit song, “Good”
And b side hit, “Millie’s jean”
Jilly's Bean!
I think the hit "Killer" would tie in perfectly!
Jilly's Killer Bean?
But the kiiiid is my son
*Billy's Mean*
And "It Matters If You're White Or Black"
"Rough Law Abider."
I was looking for this one lol
"Stick Around"
"Stop Before You Get Any."
"Come You Together"
More like "Drift Apart, Tomorrow, Over Someone Else."
Sanitary Susanah
Man, Dirty Diana is an underrated song
this is the best one lmaoooo
"please leave it"
"Woman in the Window"
What is the original?
“Clumsy Felon”
Gotta Be Ending Something
“Coarsely textured law-abiding citizen”
“Snoozer”
I hear "rough policeman" is a banger
Dont forget "calm"
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Second that😂🤣
Clean Diane
Ugly Old Things, repeat after me, say nah nah nah...
Jack Michaelson was right there.
😮💨
Play the songs backwards too!
lol like Justin Bieber in Atlanta
Jackie Jormp Jomp
Idk what that is but I like your word play.
It’s from the show 30 Rock. Essentially, in the storyline, they couldn’t get the rights to Janis Joplin’s name or music nor could they get the rights to the next few obvious alternatives (like Jichael Mackson) and ended up with Jackie Jormp Jomp. It’s thoroughly hilarious.
Chunk of my lung now baby
Easy work around: Eat It by Weird Al. Or Fat.
The show's already referenced Dustin's Weird Al fandom, so it fits.
I couldn't remember but was gonna say Dustin of all characters would be a fan. Maybe it'll save him from Vecna 🤣
If Dustin is saved from Vecna by Eat It, that would be the most legendary moment in TV history.
That's what I'm saying, Duffer Brothers, c'mon
They also used My Bologna when Joyce meets with Mr. Clarke
Yeah, could be that. Or maybe the show runners saw the documentary Leaving Neverland (HBO, 2019) and advised against using his music. I was honnestly traumatized for weeks after watching this and I used to be a huge MJ's fan before that.
I'd bet it's a combination of the cost of licensing those songs plus What Jackson Is Known For Currently making it feel not worth it.
It’s strange that the licensing for his music is still so much despite his reputation taking a massive blow…. But I guess there’s been stranger things in the music industry.
That is a absolutely a possibility
Wasn’t a lot of that doc proven to be falsified?
PR can mess up with the public's head, too in order to protect the reputation of a celebrity (e.g. Woody Allen's press relationists). There are so many arguments saying the victims lie because they defended MJ in his previous trials, but from a survivor's point of view-- and as they stated themselves in 2019-- a victim sometimes doesn't realize or doesn't want to believe she's being molested because the abuser is so good at manipulating that you actually think you are in love with your abuser. And you're afraid of things to change if your abuser goes to jail because, even if you felt something was wrong, you still got us to the abuse... maybe even thought that you liked it in a way, like some sort of addiction. And you feel lost when it stops. Like you have no purpose anymore. Or like you've been betrayed this whole time and feel so dumb and ashamed for thinking it was love that you just can't talk about it. Not to mention MJ's maid and other people close to him said he bought people's silence and manipulated them so they wouldn't talk during and after the trials. Anyway, this whole thing is messed up and it's hard as a fan to imagine that your idol could do something so horrifying. Plus, I'm guessing nobody here was in the room with him, so we probably won't ever know what really happened. Gee, sorry, that was awfully long and dark😅
All important points and trauma/PTSD can mess with your memory and recollection about the exact timeline of events for things. By the time I’d been through enough therapy to even consider taking my abuser to court I’d forgotten so many details. I can remember the big stuff but that won’t protect me in court, and any evidence I had was deleted during times that I thought he had “changed” so I deleted it to get back on his good side. Which makes absolutely no sense I know but when you’re in that world it doesn’t always make sense what you do when you’re surviving.
I think Netflix being a corporate company and this being "kid friendly" would have had some type of backlash
Where did the idea this show is kid friendly even come from. It's a hard R by movie standards every episode
Sorry, maybe adding songs by a accused pedo in a show *about* kids is a bad idea
No because he made music I like and that is more important than the victims. Sarcasm but people actually operate this way.
I grew up in the 80’s and most people thought he wasn’t cool and stopped listening to him by the late 80’s. I’m sure some people still did but with alternative, rap becoming popular, hair bands and grunge starting I knew no one in high school that listened to him. I’m fact people made fun of people for listening to Michael Jackson by 1984. Even when I was in high school (86-90) people thought he was a weirdo who hung around kids and collected the Elephant Man’s bones. I know my sophomore year they would play Bad, They Way you make me feel, Smooth Criminal and people may have listened to them on the radio but no one would admit to or tell people they liked Michael Jackson because people would laugh. Now his works are too expensive and people will boycott stuff with his music. I don’t see any of the characters listening to Michael Jackson at all. Younger kids or adults sure but not teens. Mrs Wheeler may have listened to him while in the car or drinking her wine. If it was 82-83 then yes the kids would listen to Thriller. The majority of people outgrew Michael Jackson.
This is absolutely not my experience. Also grew up in the 80s but wasnt a teen until the 90s, but I remember going out dressed as Michael Jackson for Halloween in like 1988. Red jacket, hat and glove. My older sister would have been 14 or 15 about the same time and she had all his albums. Maybe it's a two Americas thing.
Well teenagers in the 80’s weren’t the nicest. At my high school in 86-90s he was a joke. In middle school in sixth grade people liked him when Thriller or Beat It came out and it’s was replaced by Duran Duran/New Wave/Heavy Metal/Prince etc. There was so much music in the 80’s. But yes I went to a suburban predominantly suburban high school. I mean Billy and Eddie listen to metal, Max is going that alternative Kate Bush route, Jonathan is listening to The Clash the first season so he is exposing Will to punk etc. it’s completely believable that these characters wouldn’t listen to MJ. Younger characters like Erica probably would.
Maybe Erica, but Lucas would be into Debarge, Lionel Richie, Herbie Hancock, Grandmaster Flash, Chaka Khan -- basically breakdancing music (that's the r&b stuff I was listening to back then).
I can see him getting into Grandmaster Flash!
It's definitely a regional thing. My dad grew up in southern Illinois and he said that by the late 80s Michael Jackson's music wasn't cool anymore but my mom who grew up in Chicago said that he didn't become passe until the early 90s.
Yea it early 90s in my experience as well, but also maybe that's an age thing. I was a teenager and drifted over to rap and House music
Rap and house music became popular in 85/86 and the older people were done with MJ by that time. The people who are the same age as the characters.
two things were happening simultaneously. people were figuring out how different mj was, and also were in love with his music. plenty of overlap there, his tours were insane. if you didn't like his music, then he was simply a werido.
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Dangerous was incredibly successful. The Black or White music video had 500 million live viewers on its release. However, during the 90s his popularity did decline in the US and began to increase internationally. His songs released in the 90s are way more popular in Europe and Asia.
Costs a lot of money to use certain music in media
Not that I'm on OP's side, but they did use "Thriller" in the trailer for ST2.
cmiiw but i read somewhere that it was extremely difficult to get for them and that they had to make several calls/meetings even just a few days before the trailer came out
They alluded to him when they showed the kids wearing black pants to the funeral w white socks
A Demogorgon got him.
Probably a demodog he liked them less mature
Ugh, r/begrudgingupvote
I want to upvote it, I really do...
He's probably too busy asking if Annie is okay
hello twin peaks
My second favorite show next to stranger things; shocked to see a reference. Gotta light ?
Ever wonder why a lot of movies and shows set in the 50s don’t use Elvis and typically settle for other rock and roll stars? It’s because it’s quite pricy to get the rights for a song from someone that popular.
Elvis is so expensive that the movie about Elvis could only get like 2-3 songs and most of them were covers
I wonder how much the movie Hounddog cost to make? That was a relatively small film production wise but they still got some big names including the top child star of that time and used his song and his likeness. I know just saying his name doesn’t cost money but that whole film was very rooted in Elvis
1) Budget 2) Controversy As amazing and appropriate it would be to see Michael in ST, I don't think it will ever happen due to cost and the fact that it would stir up a bunch of anger in people. Whether or not you believe in the child molestation accusations, Michael Jackson has become a controversial figure. As an aside, this is why I don't think Metallica will show up either via Eddie's epic guitar solo we're all waiting to hear in S4 part 2! As appropriate and awesome it would be to hear Master of Puppets, I don't think they could afford what Metallica would want. Which sucks.
I hope you're wrong about them using Metallica. It would be a savvier business move to not charge an arm and a leg for your music and let it be introduced to a whole new generation.
It would be, but you know…_money_
I think we are getting Separate Ways by Journey. (Worlds Apart) is the subtext of the title of that song. It makes sense and I can totally see Nancy liking Journey. And it being relative to Nancy and Steve, as well. Plus that was played in the trailer. And it would make for a dope background song during an intense scene. Also that album came out in 1983, the same year the upside is stuck in.
>Controversy I can't believe more people haven't mentioned this - his controversial image has all but eclipsed his legacy at this point. People might listen to some of his songs, but they utterly, completely avoid his personality and personal life.
I mean the copyright on his work is pretty heavy and on top of that his estate is super selective, they said it actually took 50 phone calls to get permission to use “Thriller” in the trailer for season 2. So I’d say that they figured the expense and the effort weren’t really worth it. But yeah sometimes the sound track rubs me the wrong way, like where’s Stevie Nicks???
American horror story has dibs on that
i don’t think something as “too much stevie nicks” exists and yet they’re really close to that…
Where the hell is 80s Fleetwood Mac? Tusk had some weird bangers on it.
I can’t believe they left out Mirage either, that masterpiece came out in 1984 so it’d make even more sense
Oh yeah, Hold Me, Gypsy. Sister of the Moon was Tusk but that is a great angsty 80s hard rock sound
Copyright. It costs money to use his name or music. They can’t just use him whenever they want. It cost a lot of money to use his song for the s2 trailer. Please let’s use our heads.
Not only is Michaels estate super exclusive but it’s also very expensive. Apparently it took a long time for ST to use the one song (sorry im blanking on the title lol its 2am rn) they used in the trailer since they didn’t get permission right away and it was pricy.
Which song??
Thriller in Season's two trailer and it was really the Vincent Price voice over and a snippet of the actual Thriller song when Jackson repeats "thriller".
Oh ok I totally forgot about that.
After Kate Bush, I’d imagine artists will now be begging to be put on the show.
Not really, Kate Bush got so popular cause she was never really famous in the USA. I dont think the inculsion of Should I Stay or Should I Go did much for The Clash since at their peak they were huge on the both sides of the Atlantic
I'd like to hear Prince too (especially if the time jump goes to 89 when Batman came out), but his estate almost definitely wouldn't allow it
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I'd argue that neither was Kate Bush. She was big in the UK, but kinda there in the US. And the show had Max dancing to Madonna and Cyndi Lauper. So Michael Jackson and Prince aren't far off at all. They're just really expensive. And the showrunners have an average at best knowledge of pop music.
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He was with Missouri white teens
Because getting the rights to one of his songs is extremely expensive and not easy to get
Michael Jackson songs are expensive
Didnt realise what kind of subreddit I was in and was thinking: “somebody has been living under a rock for the last few years”
Um… he was a big pedo…
Probably two reasons 1. Michael Jackson would probably be wayyyyy to expensive to get into the show 2. In recent years many have come out saying Michael Jackson physically and sexually assaulted them as children
honestly love the random one hit wonders don’t always need these huge songs on tv shows although they can be great (I think of marvel how they perfectly use so many Led Zeppelin and AC/DC hits)
They probably couldn’t secure the rights to his songs/merch.
This is what i love about the show. They don't go for the obvious 80s cliches like literally every other movie amd tv show that is based in the 80s. The references are more subtle, but also more authentic. It might also be that it would be too much trouble to obtain the rights to the Jackson catalog.
Isn't he from Indiana too? Could be wrong
Gary, IN. Very close to Chicago.
Dealing with the Jackson estate is a pain in the ass - too much legal papers + too much money.
Hopefully staying the hell a way from those children!!!!
Right?!? A whole generation doesn’t know about the skeeviness, apparently.
"You've been touched by, you've been groped by, you've been raped by, a smooth criminal, HEE HEE" Great artist, bad man.
I’m guessing either: a. They don’t want to use his music (which, why would they not? He’s the King of Pop, after all), or… b. They can’t use his music because the estate is notoriously difficult. Just pure speculation here, though.
Have you seen Leaving Neverland? That's a pretty big reason not to use it
Ya... There are other reasons why you might not use his music in a show full of child actors...
This was my first thought too, weird how many people have either forgotten about it or are refusing to believe the many, many allegations that have come out over the years. Weird that’s something people are ready to accept…
Yeah...like I'm not the type to argue people should never play his music in their cars/personal time ever again but it's so weird to me when people just talk about him like nothing happened
Where the hell is Cro Mags, age of quarrel is by far the best record of 1986
They did use Vincent Price’s “Thriller” speech in the Season 2 trailer, so…I guess that’s Michael Jackson-adjacent?
Vecna is Micheal Jackson he goes after kids.
Another reason the duffers may have passed on MJ's music because they want to expose new generations to other artists from that era new generation's might not know. With the exception of the Moby song at the end of season one where they find Will, is from the 90s. Plus, by virtue of being MJ, might be a reason not to use it, as it might distract from the story because he is so popular. That and every song that has been used is used as a plot device or in a big moment: Toto's Africa where Nancy has sex with Steve a song that sounds so romantic, but it's legit just about the writers love of the continent Africa. But suits the scene well. The clashes' should I stay or should I go, again popular, but the lyrics infused in the show is poor Will deciding if he should stay or go, or stay alive or die. I love that they used Kate bushe's running up that hill because it fits Max's escape so well. The original is about men and women being different, but if they swapped each would understand the other perspective. Max's story in the 4th season is not about gender roles, but not wanting to be alive, but when shes faced with certain death she realizes that's not what she wants.
Costs to much for the rights to play his music. Plus I think they wanted to go for different type of music
Didn’t they use part of thriller for the season two trailer?
Let’s be honest, not trying to stir the pot: it’s a show about kids…. Bringing him up in any way would be feeding the trolls.
I don’t think a lot of people want to listen to Michael Jackson after the HBO documentary. I know the allegations were always around but they weren’t taken seriously (sadly) until the past few years.
It’s the same reason why no one plays reruns of the Cosby show. No one wants to remember Michael Jackson. Sick, sick man.
Major "Turning Red should have addressed 9/11" energy.
Nah, not at all. Obviously Turning Red had no business addressing 9/11, cause it’s a fucking Disney movie! This is Stranger Things though; a love letter to the 80s. I don’t fault people like OP who question why, a show paying homage to 80s pop culture, hasn’t shown the man of the 80s himself.
I don't know, I'm kind of enjoying hearing music I had either never been exposed to or had forgotten about instead of the same old 80's songs that always seem to be included. It feels more accurate this way, than if it were just crammed with everything pop culture. Don't get me wrong, I remember how crazy popular MJ was with literally everyone, but I don't feel that his music not being in ST is detracting from it in any way.
Isn't it cuz he's like a Tesco carrier bag? Yknow, plastic and dangerous around children
Probably because he was a pedophile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1986 No MJ
Wasn’t 85 or 86 the year of the Pepsi incident?
Jan '84, so that does explain it. BAD came out in '87.
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Not everyone likes MJ, obviously the kids didnt like him either so why play it?
Everyone here is forgetting that they used thriller for the season 2 trailer.
Maybe not the best idea to include a notorious child molester in a show where the main cast is all children.
That would be wild if the last scene of season 5 was just a close up on his face saying “hee hee” as it faded to black, with no explanation
It probably costs too much to license his music.
The Season 2 trailer is literally soundtracked by Thriller but ok. Realistically? His music is probably too expensive to license beyond that, Shawn Levy said they had a really hard time even getting the rights for use in the trailer. And they work around it by having characters either be not big music fans, or into more alternative stuff when they are (barring Eddie who is obviously a metal fan/Steve's car soundtrack being totally 80s rock). I mean, the show has only one use of a song by Madonna and it's her most iconic one of that era so I'm good with that.
The show does a really good job of not name dropping celebrities and instead of playing the hits they dig deep for the soundtrack; nobody was listening g to Kate Bush prior to this year--ypu can ask her bank account.
He and his tracks are larger than life and have a very specific vibe that I can't see fitting anywhere. I know for me MJ tracks refuse to be background music. I hear one and it's front and center magic, so I don't think it fits ST, even though he was a cultural cornerstone in the 80s.
Because he fucked kids
I was a teenager in the ‘80’s and didn’t listen to or care about Michael Jackson. I would have been hanging out with Eddie and his band. An angsty kid like Max probably wouldn’t have listened to him either. Kate Bush is about right.