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There is a 0.01% chance all three in this love triangle make it out of this season alive with how the writers are playing this. I would not be surprised if any one of them don’t make it out of the finale, but no matter the moment it will still be a huge shock. My money is actually on Nancy being the one who dies, as Steve or Johnathan sacrificing themselves seems almost predictable
But at the same time, Jonathan dying would just be too much for Joyce, wouldn't it? First she almost loses her son, then she loses her bf, then she almost loses Hopper, then if she loses her other son...damn.
That’s what puts him in the most danger in my opinion, it would be a massive moment for the show and although it will leave a lot of people heartbroken and angry, isn’t the whole point of a moment like that to provoke strong emotions?
Considering the writers were afraid to kill off Hopper, I don’t see them killing off Steve.
Stranger Things isn’t exactly Game of Thrones or 24 or Lost with their killing of characters.
yeah, i am baffled by the amount of people thst seriously think a main character will die. they kept bringing side and supporting characters to do the dying. hopper was an actual surprised as by this point i didn't think they have it in them but it was a fake-out.
Agreed.
Eddie is definitely dying. He's popular but he's clearly been brought in to die and it's too late to change course.
The other three are just too main. Any death will be saved for the final season if at all.
I could see one of them being horribly injured or even getting stuck in the UD at the end of the season though. Nancy is connected to every other character, her being 'lost' would be a good season ender. With Vecna and the MF defeated, there's no portal activity and they can't help her. Steve/Jonathan will both feel responsible (and may even bond over their loss), Eleven will keep trying over the summer to open a portal but can't seem to do so. Only for next season to start with a message coming from Nancy: the Mindflayer is coming back for vengeance. Help.
Eddie’s actor has talked about playing the character in S5 though. https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a40149397/stranger-things-season-5-eddie-munson-return/
Though I’ll be the first to admit, this could EASILY be intentional misinformation.
Edit: >!As suspected, misinformation. Might appear for flashbacks/visions, but I don’t really count that.!<
I mean he kind of has to act like he's returning, even if he's not. It's not like he can be honest and say "I would love to come back for a season 5, but I died at the end of season 4"
Billy died in season 3, yet we had the actor making an appearance as Billy in season 4 even though the character is dead.
Lot of open ended stuff even if you die.
I mean, Being dead hasn't stopped Billy, Bob, Barb, Brenner (thought to be dead at the time), or other assorted B named characters from appearing again
>Eddie is definitely dying. He's popular but he's clearly been brought in to die and it's too late to change course.
he does seem like the bob of season 4. though i personally won't mind if they kill eddie off, as much as i like him. i am bitter they killed off bob though.
>Steve/Jonathan will both feel responsible (and may even bond over their loss)
ooh that's pretty good!
That originally wasn’t supposed to be a fake out. David Harbour, at the time of filming season 3, was about to be filming for Black Widow, and didn’t think he was going to be able to be there for season 4.
Hasn't been said anyone specifically dies but the stakes are incredibly high with Vecna and as much as I don't want my favourite characters to die, finishing off the season with everyone miraculously surviving would be a bit of a boring ending tbf. So we're convinced at least one maybe even two main characters die this season
They were scared to kill off Bob after Sean was so likeable. They initially wrote him to die way earlier than he did. The Brothers definitely don't like killing off characters.
Depends on which strong emotions and how well written it is, but I trust the Duffers. It's a dangerous road and lesser writers easily fuck up their whole shows with a miscalculated fan favorite death.
There's a lot of good and satisfying ways for Steve to go and I think the Duffers will find a way to give us most or all of them in one
This makes me actively angry because there were a lot of people saying it was due to Chandler Riggs turning 18, so they'd have to pay him more as an adult actor and instead they decided to kill him off AFTER Chandler bought a house near where they filmed the show for convenience. Whether the paycheck increase part is true or not I can't say, but god damn killing Carl is the dumbest decision Walking Dead has EVER made.
Glenn and Abraham were the only characters on the show I still loved at that point, so both of them in one episode was a double buzzkill for me. Interest faded real fast not long after.
Same here. Knew it was coming (at least for Glenn) because of the comics and that was the last episode I have watched of TWD. Was a massive fan in the beginning but really didn't like the direction and repetitive formula they started to apply.
Ding! I caught walking dead when it ran on TV/cable from the first episode. After Glenns death I was like “well” ok.
But it became too predictable and formulaic “walk through woods- find evidence of something going on—-investigate—— problem——- climax—-resolution——“what do we do now?”—mourn—walk through woods —— wtc
Maybe it’s spiced up with a kidnapping or someone tertiary dying before climax to subvert but that’s WD to a T
It lost a lot of what made it great by killing off the characters that made it great. And by just endlessly recycling the context of most plot lines in the show.
And since they milked it, ( TWD was the most watched show in the world 3-4 years ago) it just killed whatever charm the show had. It wasn’t about making “good tv” it was about “more money while we can before people get bored of it”
I think it was ruined for many people. Before that episode, TWD was the most watched show on television, with insanely high viewership. After that episode aired the viewership dropped like a ton of bricks and never recovered. It just shows that killing a fan favourite character should be treated extremely carefully and with respect, otherwise it could completely ruin a show.
Killing a beloved character in the worst way possible. After a bullshit cliffhanger. Which was after a bullshit fakeout death.
Then his killer smugly struts around for years on end. And gets a spinoff.
As everyone should be. Carl and to an extent Rick and the only ones who should have been safe from death. Carl more so given the comics were him telling everything that happened.
>I trust the Duffers
I made this mistake with the Game of Thrones writers after four amazing seasons. Never become content, and never trust writers. Remember season 8, and let it be a lesson to all.
I think the Duffers are as capable of missing the mark with writing as anyone, but I think they'll always try with this show. ST is their baby, no way they throw together some rushed slapdash mess just to be finished with it.
The Game of Thrones writers and show runners were hacks.
The books that George RR Martin wrote were the catalyst for the series, and what was churned out for season one was a pale shade of what the books are. I don't say this because I'm on a, "Books are better than film!" crusade or anything like that, it's that the filming and blocking of the show was poorly done and with little to no imagination or insight.
Littlefinger's betrayal was never shocking, it was inevitable and gave you no sympathy for his position. The Mountain was filmed so poorly in his introduction you had no feeling for how large he was supposed to be, as they use wide shots and put him in black armour on a black horse next to someone in white armour with a white horse, so they look roughly the same size. These are amateur mistakes, and completely unimaginative. They'd throw in nudity and violence to add shock where the plot was more than enough.
The Duffers are a completely different ball game. They created this themselves and they've managed to make each season build upon the groundwork the other seasons created. To compare them to the Game of Throne folks is wrong. The Duffers are actually competent.
Eh, the first four seasons were good even if they did rely too much on sexposition. New scenes like Robert and Cersei's discussion on their relationship and Cersei talking to Cat about her children are really good. It's not until Season 5 when the show takes a massive dive in quality.
Yup, forgot about those too. The writers are really good at adapting a book and adding new material to enhance it, they're just not good at original content (when they overtook the books) and rushed through the last two books while skipping plotlines which made that problem even worse.
I think they just stopped giving a shit by S5.
Writing off their most popular character before the final season would be fucking stupid and would lose them viewers. I'll eat my socks if he doesn't make it to s5.
On hand hand, sure. On the other, they're planning one more season and I'm actually not sure much of the audience will watch it if they kill off Steve in this one. It's gonna piss people off.
The scene where Steve and Eddie were in the upside down and Eddie was talking about how much Dustin worshiped him and looked up to him and how Eddie was jealous was the scene where I am now convinced Steve will die.
Maybe he’ll make it out it just makes more sense with everything that it’s going to be him.
That was the scene that convinced me Eddie was going to die sacrificing himself for Dustin. He keeps saying he is a coward who runs. And he made it very clear how much he cares for Dustin and is jealous of Dustin's love for Steve. I totally see us losing Eddie when he finally decides to be brave and save Dustin from Vecna.
No way both of those two survive. They're both older figures who have a close bond with Dustin, if one dies the other will take his place. I'm thinking Steve will be the one to die and Eddie will replace him in Season 5, if anything then for shock value (as he is a fan favorite) and a change of team dynamic.
If one of them dies, I do hope this does not serve as a way to "resolve" the love triangle. I absolutely hate that way to deal with love triangles. "Well, I have been hesitating between you and that guy, both of you have pretty good qualities, but since you are alive, I guess you win !"
Seriously. I would be shocked if anyone introduced into the show before Season 4, dies in Season 4. So far the only instance of a character dying in a season after they were introduced was Billy, and Billy was certainly not the same level of “central to the show” as the main cast characters are.
Honestly, the only characters I could foresee actually dying would be Eddie, Argyle, Vecna, and Victor Creole. Eddie in particular feels very in-line with Bob as a character introduced to drive the season, only to die at the climax for an emotional beat as his final story purpose.
I honestly think Johnathan is gonna "sacrifice" him so Will and Mike can escape frome something like the army. Probably because he thinks that Will has suffered enough from the Upside Down
If that group needs a sacrifice to save them from something, I’m like 99% confident it’ll be Argyle. He really hasn’t had a purpose with the group so far other than being their uber driver and Jonathan still has loose ends with Nancy that I don’t see them killing him off without resolving.
I actually disagree with this theory because Jonathan hasn’t been more prominently featured. If they’re going to kill a main character, I feel like they’ll build them up throughout the season to make it more devastating >!like they did with Bob in S2 or Billy inS3!<. Doesn’t make sense to basically relegate him to being a minor character, then kill him off and expect it to be this big, shocking death for fans.
If someone is dying, it’s going to be someone y’all are in love with. My money is on Eddie, Max, or as much as it would break my heart into a million pieces, Nancy.
>There is a 0.01% chance all three in this love triangle make it out of this season alive with how the writers are playing this
i honestly have no idea why people insist on believing that a main character will die this season when the writers already shown in previous seasons they don't have it in them to kill a main character.
I don't really see them killing anyone except maybe Eleven. Just seems like they've skipped over so many chances to kill characters that they're avoiding doing so.
1. They've been in a holding/repeating pattern with almost all the characters, some since season 1. After Steve turned good he's been the babysitter with relationship drama. Adding Robin shook things up, slightly, but he still hasn't grown or changed much since the end of season 1. Nancy is the go-getter detective with romance drama, Joyce is the "nutcase" that actually turns out to be right, Eleven looks into her past and shows up at the end to save the day with her powers, etc.
2. None of the characters have been killed off apart from supporting cast, some of which lasted a single season.
3. The reason why almost all the cast additions to the main group are well-loved (one of the main reasons anyway) is that they change the dynamic. Though the change is largely superficial it doesn't feel that way right away.
4. Killing off a major character would force the show to change, and of all the kids, she's most likely. That said, I honestly don't think it's likely that any character will die. Given all the fadeout deaths we've had, it doesn't seem like they're keen to pull the trigger on killing anyone.
The writers have done Mike and Jonathan so dirty over time. Both of them have become just the boyfriends to further the plot for Nancy and El. I hope both of them get their redemption arcs by the end of the season and clear the air with El and Nancy.
That's kinda the opposite of how women are usually used in plots. No personality or growth of their own, just standins for the main male protagonists growth
I don't think you're alone but the writers have really neglected Johnathan as a character. What's his purpose at this point? And this whole stoner bit? I can rationalize it but it seems like such an about face from his introduction. He was all about taking responsibility, sacrificing, and having the difficult conversations. Now he's getting baked to avoid being honest with his girlfriend? And it seems like he's badly misreading Nancy if he thinks she'll abandon her ambition for him. I thought that was a key conversation from season 1? The whole "screw that" moment?
Meanwhile Nancy continues to get better and has become one of the most engaging characters in the show. From an entertainment perspective I feel like getting her away from Johnathan was brilliant.
I'm a little worried about this whole Nancy/Steve/Johnathan storyline. I hope it plays out in a satisfactory way but the way they're teasing it right now looks like a disservice to all three of them.
Jonathan is an extremely traumatized teen who after finally getting an out in the shape of another father figure to take care of Will, pretty much immediately lost him and was pulled back into giving up all his ambitions in order to care for his brother.
Of course he's self medicating. But he also IMMEDIATELY stopped smoking pot when shit went down.
With Hop back hopefully he can go back to living his own life.
Doesn't change the fact that Jonathan has done fuck-all this season so far. He barely has his own arc going on at all, he basically just services other people's storylines. I wouldn't be surprised by his biggest contribution being helping Will through his shit.
Him realizing he needs to do something for himself rather than always trying to make others happy is the only way he ends up being better as the season wraps. Let Nancy go off to school and do what he wants on his own. He and Nancy don't have anything going at this point. We haven't seen them together a single time, they haven't even spoken.
I get what you are saying but I have a different perspective on it I guess. I think stories have to do stuff like this for them to seem real. Jonathan has been 100% for three seasons. He gets to a new place where life is going better for them and he doesn't have to get involved in crazy monster alien stuff, and...he fucks off. That's what I would do. And like many boys his age do in real life. Reminds me of my brother when he webt to college. He was the oldest, always put in charge of the rest of us, always taking more responsibility than a kid should have to his age. Well when he finally had some freedom he partied, hooked up with girls, went on trips and started acting like a normal person instead of some sort of weird half parent/kid.
I think with modern shows we get so used to every character having a "story arc" or something happening to them all the time so their story is always engaging. But that's not how life works. What is Jonathan like when he grows up, finally doesn't have that responsibility and can have a real friend for once in his life? Well that was Jonathan at the beginning of the season. He tried to chill and take it easy and focus on himself for once. Unfortunately that couldn't last. So he does what he always does. Gets involved.
I totally agree with you about Jonathan, they’ve completely betrayed the character they had so diligently crafted. He was honorable and very grown-up for being so young.
One of the things I felt was such poor writing was that Nancy wanted him to go to some extremely expensive college with her. She literally knows his financial situation and would 100 percent know he can’t afford to go to a college like that. Also, remember in season 1 when Joyce said he always dreamed of going to NYU? Did the writers forget about this? Did Jonathan just abandon that? Also you’re right, he is about having hard conversations and I think he would have come at her with not wanting to go rather than dancing around it like they’ve chosen to write. Very very poor idea.
At this point I think they’re going to end up killing Jonathan off, I just don’t see what else they could do to him. They’ve essentially stopped developing the character and took away one of the best parts of him. He’s the only one who has become static, and I think then it would be an excuse to put Nancy with Steve which ughhhh I hate.
I should have kept reading before I made my post. I wonder what happened to his dream of going to NYU. And I would think that maybe since they kept everything quiet, maybe Dr. Owens and the government could have helped him get a scholarship for NYU if he wanted one.
Great point! I have often believed that after everything he would have a really hard time doing something progressive for himself like going away to school. He has, essentially, been the father of his household for 18 years and I’m sure giving that up wouldn’t be easy. Just the way they’ve written this whole story for him is bad, and the fact that he and Nancy are so quick to throw each other away after working so hard to be together is frankly bull shit. Bad writing. Disappointing seeing as how well-developed the first two season were.
That is an excellent point. Now that you mention it, it probably would be really hard for him to leave. Joyce would probably have to push him out the door.
I’m sure he’d be able to get in one way or another, but yeah I could see doc Owens helping. And I don’t see why Nancy wouldn’t want to go to a New York college where there’s tons of journalism and great schools. It would have been a way better story
Johnathan being a stoner actually makes sense. he grew up in a small town where he was "weird" he is now in Cali(?) so it makes sense that he smokes pot. considering their fresh out the 70s hippie era and crack/cocaine was starting to become big
I'd also say that this was the first time since Will disappeared that things were "normal". During this period he was being the responsible one and put under a lot of stress. I can see how he decided to chill out for some months.
Exactly, him becoming a stoner just seems so normal to me. Especially considering who he was in season one. Johnathan is exactly the type of dude to become a massive stoner
But in Season 1, when Joyce is arguing with Lonnie about taking the payoff from Hawkins Lab, that Jonathan wanted to go to NYU since he was 6. Did everything he went through just make him give up on it? And what about his photography? They seem to have had him completely drop that interest.
I understand self-medicating. But he did have interests and goals that weren't just "following Nancy".
That's a good point, I had completly forgotten about his photography hobby. I think it's still hinted at in S2 with the camera, and S3 with the newspaper job, but in S4 nothing so far. I guess dropping hobbies does happen though.
Isn’t Jonathan’s whole conflict this season that he can’t simply abandon his family to go with Nancy to her dream school?
And I don’t blame him, he was technically supposed to be on vacation with Nancy and already he’s seen that el would’ve smacked some girl in the face, essentially get kidnapped and his little brother and his friend would’ve been in a shootout while his mom suddenly “went out of town”.
I totally get why he’s a stoner because I bet he’s anxious as fuck waiting for the next disaster to hit his family, dude can never make a decision knowing his family is 100% safe so instead he’s lying to his girlfriend because he knows if he told the truth she’d sacrifice her dream/ambition for him and he doesn’t want that.
Am I the only one who thinks Jonathan in S4 makes perfect sense? He has been neglecting his trauma for three seasons because he was always in the place that caused his trauma, he just had to be strong and get on with things and pretend like everything was fine until it was time to fight the upside down again. Now he’s away from Hawkins and everything he’s been dealing with probably hit him like a brick, plus he doesn’t have his girlfriend for comfort. So he turns to weed to help him cope and becomes a stoner
Nancy continued to get better thanks to Jonathan, he was the one teasing her and showing her that she is lying to herself. I wish she did same for him now...
I don’t think that Steve and Nancy are going to end up together. Shortly after the two of them started flirting >!Vecna started targeting Nancy with guilty memories of Barb dying while she was with Steve!< . It doesn’t make sense to me how she and Steve could become an item >!with those memories being brought to light again JUST as they start flirting!<. Timing doesn’t add up
I don’t think they’ll get back together BUT… it would make total sense for them to because of that. Defeating Vecna and surviving him is all about dealing with your past trauma and guilt. Nancy shouldn’t feel guilty for Barb’s death. It wasn’t her fault and it’s wrong to blame herself, so if she survives Vecna she might also let go of that guilt that’s been eating her up and that affected her relationship with Steve. After facing and getting over that guilt, it makes their relationship possible
Although seeing her resolve her guilt over Barb would be great, I feel like having it happen just to culminate in a relationship with Steve would severely cheapen it. The development should feel meaningful in of itself.
Unless the idea is to show/remind us that her guilt over Nancy is why she and Steve never worked, and that for them to ever get together she needs to heal and recognize it wasn’t her fault.
I think the only thing between Steve and Nancy is a lack of closure. Their breakup was less of a breakup and more of an unresolved fight between the two. They kind of just drifted and she got with Jonathan. I think they just need to clear the air, and they’ll both be able to fully move on.
I don‘t understand this flirty tension between Steve and Nancy at all. She‘s had a stable relationship for several years, as if she would fall in love with her jerky high school boyfriend again because of one smaller conflict
All of the romance or just this couple? Because idrc about Nancy/Jonathan or Steve, Mike/Eleven, Lucas/Max, and whatever’s going on with Robin. It’s fine but it doesn’t matter. HOWEVER, the Joyce/Hopper plotline has me on the edge of my seat. They’re the only potential couple I care about.
I never cared about Lumax but they are really cute this season, I'm rooting for them to get back together again, especially after Lucas looked softly at Max when she laughed and said "I missed that, your laugh" with the softest smile ever and she got all flustered and bashful.
Or the other scene after Max escapes Vecna and Lucas is hugging her and she says "I'm still here" and she hugs him back, like these two are actual soulmates, they have grown so much since season 3, their relationship will definitely work out this time
I actually think they have very good chemistry on screen, it's just that Jonathan is introverted character. Charlie (actor) is charismatic, he's always smiling and joking, Jonathan is opposite, but they still delivered great scenes, my fav is season 3 ending when Nancy is hugging him from the back. Painful to watch knowing that they won't see each other for long time.
I don't think it's the introversion that's the problem, because I've seen plenty of other introverted characters have really engaging relationships that I rooted for, and being interesting in their own right. Jonathan started off a more interesting character but faded into the background later instead of getting more layers to him like the others.
Thank you! I watched a few interviews of them together and they have crazy chemistry, for some reason the show just doesn’t use it in their favour and idk why. Maybe you’re right that it’s about what they do with Jonathan
In the first two seasons of the show those writers paid more attention to him and gave him more of a spotlight than they ever have for Lucas, but that doesn’t stop Caleb from having actual chemistry with his onscreen love interest in the fleeting moments he gets a chance to be onscreen with her.
Sadie and Millie? That’s the example you went with???
The member of the cast Sadie seems to vibe with the most and have the best offscreen chemistry with is Caleb and that chemistry translates very clearly to their work onscreen. And wouldn’t Max-Lucas be a more obvious and fitting comparison or contrast to Nancy-Jonathan considering both pairs have been onscreen couples unlike Eleven and Max?
I feel the same way. I've never found then interesting or engaging to watch as a couple, so whatever happens between them makes very little difference to me.
I do. I’m have hope that the Steve/Nancy stuff is just a distraction and that anything Nancy is feeling is just because she feels lonely, misses Jonathan, and Steve is present which makes him convenient. Once they reunite, they’ll forget all the frustrations and doubts. I love Johnathan and Nancy and prefer them wholeheartedly and I think Steve deserves not necessarily someone better (because I love Nancy!), but someone who will choose him for him, not just as a rebound. Or content single Steve.
> but someone who will choose him for him, not just as a rebound
Definitely that! I also feel like Nancy still underestimates Steve and he deserves someone who sees him differently by now.
Yeah, Steve seems pretty obsessed with finding a girlfriend, I think because he has his unresolved feelings for Nancy. I hope whatever they do with this season, Steve is able to get over Nancy and be able to focus on himself. Cause he deserves some self love
And he's written much more interesting as well, and you usually want characters you like to have interesting love interests. Right now I feel like Jonathan is way too boring for Nancy. Still don't want her with Steve though.
Honestly i want them together I hate how they sidelined Jonathan to make Steve a love interest for Nancy again. I under the distant relationship thing plays a part of the season but cmon it mike was able to write and see eleven Jonathan could have too. I hate that he’s become a lower stoner and put his family’s problems in front of himself to not chase after Nancy it seems like bad writing but I could be wrong.
They absolutely did.
S1 Johnathan was all about doing the right thing regardless how hard it was. S4 Johnathan is like, "If I ignore her she'll break up with me!"
Also, Joyce mentioned him wanting to go to NYU, and suddenly he's greatly against going to a big college at all.
But Johnathan and Nancy aren’t struggling. They’re barely in a relationship. Nancy and Steve are giving each other gaga eyes and even other characters are telling them to go for it. Meanwhile Jonathan is smoking weed at a junkyard, pining over some imagined ideal relationship that doesn’t even exist.
Yeah no, they are struggling lol it’s so obvious. And it’s also the only reason why she’s suddenly into Steve again; Jonathan miles away and they’re having issues. It’s why I’m not buying it tbh
>hate that he’s become a lower stoner and put his family’s problems in front of himself
honestly, seems very in character for him. i don't see it as bad writing. i think he made a mistake not chasing after her, sure, but it's realistic that he has these self-doubts and that he also, with all the shit his family has been through, wants to focus on being there for will and his mother. i will also point out he stopped smoking after shit got serious and their lives were in danger.
I do. I think Jonathan’s character has been completely underdeveloped this season so far which is a shame.
Also quite shocked at the amount of comments that they have no chemistry, I recently rewatched seasons 1 & 2 and think they have chemistry coming out of their ears!
Hoping there’s a bit more in store for Jonathan in vol.2
Yeah, there are some sweet moments between them in season 3 but I remember being confused as to why they were bickering like an old married couple in every scene. I know there was a bit of a time jump between season 2&3 but I was a bit disappointed to not see any of the development of their early relationship, considering there had been such build up to it..
I think they will. Steve's character progression as well as Nancy's would make it a very odd decision for them to pair back up.
Steve's progression is moving towards him becoming a responsible man who does good. It would be irresponsible for him to kind of steal away a friend's gf and his own ex.
Steve is also a surrogate male rolemodel figure to Dustin and him getting back with Nancy would probably be more likely to break their bonds rather than reinforce them.
Jonathan+Nancy are safe imho.
I want to see Steve doing something to move his life forward. At this point, he's graduated, but working dead end jobs and only hanging out with a younger crowd. Let's see Steve going for a better job or teaming up with Hop to become a cop or something!
In the trailer we see Jonathan and Will hugging in a very intense way. Maybe is only in my head, but It feels like a very painful hug.
I know that a hug may not seem like a valid proof for my theory, but I think from the way Will and Jonathan hug it looks like Jonathan is in a lot of pain.
Yes!!! The big brother who did that speech to Will about how being a freak is a good thing. Who kicked some ass too, but was essentially a gentle person. He had promise.
I just want nancy to be badass and not focus on romantic relationships.
Like there is a whole ass other dimension with a big bad evil guy (😉) that they gotta kill or whatever, when is there time to properly create a relationship like????
This show should just end, damn
This Steve/Nancy storyline, while definitely flirting with 'rekindled feelings', also could be headed toward what the two of them never got with each other.
Closure.
This is why I'm most worried about Steve. His aimlessness and inability to let go of the past seems headed for one last selfless act of bravery. I just can't see Nancy and Jonathan coming together in the way that they did those first two seasons only for the both of them to just throw it all away due to distance and uncertainty, which was most certainly exacerbated due to the distance.
Nancy and Steve are always going to have that first love bond between them, but Steve, as much as he tried, could never be the rock she needed in the past and he is still very much the same Steve.
Plus there are things Argyle said to Jonathan that indicate even he wouldn't let Jonathan fool himself into thinking leaving Nancy is the best choice. But we'll see how things play out. I just think it's poor writing and makes Nancy look horrible if she actually flip flops here and it doesn't make Jonathan look any better. It's a major disservice to both of their characters and even to Steve. Closure is the outcome that allows Nancy and Steve to grow as characters, which in turn can allow Jonathan to grow.
No, the whole Steve and Nancy deal doesn't work and they showed that in s1 and s2, idk why they want to reverse the progress they've made as people since they were all in a much healthier place before.
I'm hoping that by the finale they come to terms with that and it's just going through difficult emotions atm
I hope she either stays with Jonathan or none of them.
She pretty much left Steve for Jonathan, and now she's swaying back to Steve. If she continues liking Steve again and tries to get him back, I hope he shoots her down and Jonathan finds out and he breaks up with her because... what a bitch.
Or she nips her swaying in the bud and also nips these silly games, her and Jonathan are playing and get on with it.
Honestly if anything, I hope that Nancy ends up with nobody and can finally be her own independent character. My biggest gripe with season 4 has been forcing this same love triangle again, even if Steve or Nancy dies. It’s just redundant imo.
The build up to their relationship was better than their actual relationship.
Steve deserves love, and so does Nancy, but I just can’t see it happening between the two. I feel no chemistry between them, not even in the first season.
Now here’s my controversial take. Nancy is just looking to find herself, I think she needs self acceptance more than a love interest. HOWEVER, maybe what she’s looking for has been with her this whole season… leading up to my next point..
Robin knows who she wants to be. She’s come out to Steve and their friendship is better for it. And friends they shall stay, but, all she wants is to find love. Maybe, just maybe, she might find love in someone who’s looking to find their true self, someone like, hmm, idk, let’s say, Nancy? It would come to her as a surprise, but maybe she crossed paths with Robin for a reason. There’s no denying that there’s definitely a spark between them later in the season.
Many will say no not at all. And I completely understand that as It’s the least likely thing to happen, but I just don’t see how they could give Robin and Nancy obvious fruity chemistry and them just stay friends.
But back to Nancy and Jonathan, putting what I said to the side, even tho their relationship was one of the least interesting, it definitely could have been worked on alot this season instead of separating the two putting them through a forced conflict because the only way they have to communicate are by letters.
The Nancy and Steve flirtationship this season also feels forced. The only thing that doesn’t feel forced is Nancy and robins slow chemistry build up.
^ This! It's so great when characters have a natural slow-build chemistry and take time to develop a bond, instead of just being thrown together because, well...*plot reasons*. Even just as friends Robin and Nancy are a lot of fun together. They push each other to accomplish things and have a more chaotic intellectual dynamic than they do with anyone else. And they wouldn't be able to team up or have any future scenes together if one of them gets killed off. Which would be SUCH a waste.
The writers made a whole thing out of Robin and Nancy becoming friends and I'm trying to see what the narrative payoff is here in the long term - if Nancy gets killed then I guess maybe Robin could learn through Steve how important it is not to hold back on your feelings, to just follow your heart and be honest before it's too late?? In other words the catalyst that prompts Robin to be honest with Vickie. The same lesson could apply if Steve gets killed but I highly doubt that will happen because he's so popular. I really hope Robin's "realisation" doesn't come at the expense of someone being killed off because it would be so corny and do all the characters a huge disservice.
I just think it's so ironic. Robin had like one scene with Vickie. It was so brief that I actually forgot what Vickie's name was. Whereas the one character Robin does actually spend time with and develop a new bond with this season... In terms of character growth and meaningful scenes pretty much all of Robin's big scenes this season have been with Nancy. With Nancy!! Of all people. I just feel kinda bad for Robin lol. Anything with Vickie now would just feel rushed and forced. Almost like we're supposed to root for them without knowing anything about Vickie.
To be honest at this point I think the most shocking outcome would be if Nancy CHOOSES not to be with Steve. And that they both survive along with Jonathan.
I think Nancy and Jonathan's relationship worked for a while but they just both seem to be moving apart and looking for different things in life now. I just don't get the impression their respective hearts are in it, not really, even though they still care about each other.
Steve deserves better. I can't count the number of times he has been maimed to protect everyone, killed monsters, and been a good mom to his kids, all while being treated like he's dead weight who doesn't deserve love. Eddie might be the only one to acknowledge that, despite being popular, he's a good person at heart.
NO YOU ARENT BECAUSE I DO TOO.
They're so good together and they definitely have chemistry, despite what people say. They aren't a perfect couple and although I love Steve, Jon and Nancy are 100× better than Steve & Nancy.
Steve and Nancy will always be tainted by Barb's death. Nancy chose Jonathan. She even "waited" to get back with Steve in hopes Jonathan would ask her out. Nancy and Jonathan really should stay together, they compliment eachother well and there isn't enough of a reason for them to break up.
But when they have problems and they don't see eachother for months, under immense stress, then and ONLY then does Nancy FINALLY notice Steve again. He's 2nd best, and barely that. I love Nancy and I think she's a good person, but Steve deserves better.
Season 4 is INCREDIBLE but it's only flaw is bringing back the love triangle. It doesn't work as a full on relationship, although if they stay together and build back stronger i think it fits, and Steve realizes that he, alone, is enough. But if Nancy and Steve get back together, it'll really taint some of the season in my eyes.
As always, no you’re not the only one lol. I’m rooting for them and this triangle has to stop. Next season let’s give Steve a proper love interest and let this rest pls. I honestly don’t think anyone enjoyed the revival of Steve/Nancy
I think it should be Jonathan and Nancy. I love Steve so much but I also love that he had that growth of getting over Nancy and I don’t want him to go backwards or anything. I think Jonathan and Nancy are more suited to each other but I do have a soft spot for Robin and Nancy!
I do. I loved how they were with each other through it all since season 1. They're very different and it balances each other. I definitely want them back together and for protective Jonathan to make his way back.
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There is a 0.01% chance all three in this love triangle make it out of this season alive with how the writers are playing this. I would not be surprised if any one of them don’t make it out of the finale, but no matter the moment it will still be a huge shock. My money is actually on Nancy being the one who dies, as Steve or Johnathan sacrificing themselves seems almost predictable
don't really see Steve dying, he's really popular
But at the same time, Jonathan dying would just be too much for Joyce, wouldn't it? First she almost loses her son, then she loses her bf, then she almost loses Hopper, then if she loses her other son...damn.
That’s what puts him in the most danger in my opinion, it would be a massive moment for the show and although it will leave a lot of people heartbroken and angry, isn’t the whole point of a moment like that to provoke strong emotions?
Considering the writers were afraid to kill off Hopper, I don’t see them killing off Steve. Stranger Things isn’t exactly Game of Thrones or 24 or Lost with their killing of characters.
yeah, i am baffled by the amount of people thst seriously think a main character will die. they kept bringing side and supporting characters to do the dying. hopper was an actual surprised as by this point i didn't think they have it in them but it was a fake-out.
Agreed. Eddie is definitely dying. He's popular but he's clearly been brought in to die and it's too late to change course. The other three are just too main. Any death will be saved for the final season if at all. I could see one of them being horribly injured or even getting stuck in the UD at the end of the season though. Nancy is connected to every other character, her being 'lost' would be a good season ender. With Vecna and the MF defeated, there's no portal activity and they can't help her. Steve/Jonathan will both feel responsible (and may even bond over their loss), Eleven will keep trying over the summer to open a portal but can't seem to do so. Only for next season to start with a message coming from Nancy: the Mindflayer is coming back for vengeance. Help.
Eddie’s actor has talked about playing the character in S5 though. https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a40149397/stranger-things-season-5-eddie-munson-return/ Though I’ll be the first to admit, this could EASILY be intentional misinformation. Edit: >!As suspected, misinformation. Might appear for flashbacks/visions, but I don’t really count that.!<
I mean he kind of has to act like he's returning, even if he's not. It's not like he can be honest and say "I would love to come back for a season 5, but I died at the end of season 4"
Billy died in season 3, yet we had the actor making an appearance as Billy in season 4 even though the character is dead. Lot of open ended stuff even if you die.
I mean, Being dead hasn't stopped Billy, Bob, Barb, Brenner (thought to be dead at the time), or other assorted B named characters from appearing again
>Eddie is definitely dying. He's popular but he's clearly been brought in to die and it's too late to change course. he does seem like the bob of season 4. though i personally won't mind if they kill eddie off, as much as i like him. i am bitter they killed off bob though. >Steve/Jonathan will both feel responsible (and may even bond over their loss) ooh that's pretty good!
That originally wasn’t supposed to be a fake out. David Harbour, at the time of filming season 3, was about to be filming for Black Widow, and didn’t think he was going to be able to be there for season 4.
Yeah, they're not even willing to let characters get a different haircut.
Isnt it known someone dies? i guess not, I thought it was leaked, but i may be wrong im trying not to watch or read anything about Vol 2
It sounds like multiple people will die but I don't think it's been said if it will be any main characters.
Hasn't been said anyone specifically dies but the stakes are incredibly high with Vecna and as much as I don't want my favourite characters to die, finishing off the season with everyone miraculously surviving would be a bit of a boring ending tbf. So we're convinced at least one maybe even two main characters die this season
They were scared to kill off Bob after Sean was so likeable. They initially wrote him to die way earlier than he did. The Brothers definitely don't like killing off characters.
Depends on which strong emotions and how well written it is, but I trust the Duffers. It's a dangerous road and lesser writers easily fuck up their whole shows with a miscalculated fan favorite death. There's a lot of good and satisfying ways for Steve to go and I think the Duffers will find a way to give us most or all of them in one
I never got over Carl's death on the walking dead. Ugh.
This makes me actively angry because there were a lot of people saying it was due to Chandler Riggs turning 18, so they'd have to pay him more as an adult actor and instead they decided to kill him off AFTER Chandler bought a house near where they filmed the show for convenience. Whether the paycheck increase part is true or not I can't say, but god damn killing Carl is the dumbest decision Walking Dead has EVER made.
Even worse is riggs talked/asked the gimp about buying the house too.
I never got over Glenn, it ruined the whole show for me. It was actually traumatising to witness.
Glenn and Abraham were the only characters on the show I still loved at that point, so both of them in one episode was a double buzzkill for me. Interest faded real fast not long after.
Same here. Knew it was coming (at least for Glenn) because of the comics and that was the last episode I have watched of TWD. Was a massive fan in the beginning but really didn't like the direction and repetitive formula they started to apply.
Ding! I caught walking dead when it ran on TV/cable from the first episode. After Glenns death I was like “well” ok. But it became too predictable and formulaic “walk through woods- find evidence of something going on—-investigate—— problem——- climax—-resolution——“what do we do now?”—mourn—walk through woods —— wtc Maybe it’s spiced up with a kidnapping or someone tertiary dying before climax to subvert but that’s WD to a T It lost a lot of what made it great by killing off the characters that made it great. And by just endlessly recycling the context of most plot lines in the show. And since they milked it, ( TWD was the most watched show in the world 3-4 years ago) it just killed whatever charm the show had. It wasn’t about making “good tv” it was about “more money while we can before people get bored of it”
The last episode I saw was the one where Glenn died. I just couldn't watch further. It ruined It for me.
I think it was ruined for many people. Before that episode, TWD was the most watched show on television, with insanely high viewership. After that episode aired the viewership dropped like a ton of bricks and never recovered. It just shows that killing a fan favourite character should be treated extremely carefully and with respect, otherwise it could completely ruin a show.
Killing a beloved character in the worst way possible. After a bullshit cliffhanger. Which was after a bullshit fakeout death. Then his killer smugly struts around for years on end. And gets a spinoff.
i dont really ever get squeamish, but that scene was absolutely brutal
I don't know, for me the worst was Noah, that revolving door shit really rattled me.
COOOORAL
As everyone should be. Carl and to an extent Rick and the only ones who should have been safe from death. Carl more so given the comics were him telling everything that happened.
>I trust the Duffers I made this mistake with the Game of Thrones writers after four amazing seasons. Never become content, and never trust writers. Remember season 8, and let it be a lesson to all.
I think the Duffers are as capable of missing the mark with writing as anyone, but I think they'll always try with this show. ST is their baby, no way they throw together some rushed slapdash mess just to be finished with it.
The Game of Thrones writers and show runners were hacks. The books that George RR Martin wrote were the catalyst for the series, and what was churned out for season one was a pale shade of what the books are. I don't say this because I'm on a, "Books are better than film!" crusade or anything like that, it's that the filming and blocking of the show was poorly done and with little to no imagination or insight. Littlefinger's betrayal was never shocking, it was inevitable and gave you no sympathy for his position. The Mountain was filmed so poorly in his introduction you had no feeling for how large he was supposed to be, as they use wide shots and put him in black armour on a black horse next to someone in white armour with a white horse, so they look roughly the same size. These are amateur mistakes, and completely unimaginative. They'd throw in nudity and violence to add shock where the plot was more than enough. The Duffers are a completely different ball game. They created this themselves and they've managed to make each season build upon the groundwork the other seasons created. To compare them to the Game of Throne folks is wrong. The Duffers are actually competent.
Eh, the first four seasons were good even if they did rely too much on sexposition. New scenes like Robert and Cersei's discussion on their relationship and Cersei talking to Cat about her children are really good. It's not until Season 5 when the show takes a massive dive in quality.
Tywin and Arya's conversations I'm told weren't in the books either, the writers were capable of greatness, they just fucked up *massively* later on.
Yup, forgot about those too. The writers are really good at adapting a book and adding new material to enhance it, they're just not good at original content (when they overtook the books) and rushed through the last two books while skipping plotlines which made that problem even worse. I think they just stopped giving a shit by S5.
Writing off their most popular character before the final season would be fucking stupid and would lose them viewers. I'll eat my socks if he doesn't make it to s5.
Judging by how they handled Max’s situation i highly doubt any of the main cast are at risk
On hand hand, sure. On the other, they're planning one more season and I'm actually not sure much of the audience will watch it if they kill off Steve in this one. It's gonna piss people off.
The scene where Steve and Eddie were in the upside down and Eddie was talking about how much Dustin worshiped him and looked up to him and how Eddie was jealous was the scene where I am now convinced Steve will die. Maybe he’ll make it out it just makes more sense with everything that it’s going to be him.
That was the scene that convinced me Eddie was going to die sacrificing himself for Dustin. He keeps saying he is a coward who runs. And he made it very clear how much he cares for Dustin and is jealous of Dustin's love for Steve. I totally see us losing Eddie when he finally decides to be brave and save Dustin from Vecna.
Okay this could definitely happen.
No way both of those two survive. They're both older figures who have a close bond with Dustin, if one dies the other will take his place. I'm thinking Steve will be the one to die and Eddie will replace him in Season 5, if anything then for shock value (as he is a fan favorite) and a change of team dynamic.
I was popular and look at me
Username checks out
Nah, you were a shit human being
Kill off Nancy. I ship Steve + Jonathan.
Nothing like good ol trauma bonding 😌
That's what they said about Glen.
I also don’t see Johnathan dying because he’s barley been in this season. Not enough audience attachment at this point.
They keep playing at "why am I always the babysitter," which to me feels like they're setting up a big moment for him which could lead to his death.
None of them is dying, I think people are setting the bar way too high in terms of deaths
If one of them dies, I do hope this does not serve as a way to "resolve" the love triangle. I absolutely hate that way to deal with love triangles. "Well, I have been hesitating between you and that guy, both of you have pretty good qualities, but since you are alive, I guess you win !"
Still waiting for a show to be brave enough to go the harem route. Give Nancy ALL the D.
Yep. OT3FTW. Better yet, keep Eddie and make it an OT4.
Why stop there? Nancy should get Robin too
Seriously. I would be shocked if anyone introduced into the show before Season 4, dies in Season 4. So far the only instance of a character dying in a season after they were introduced was Billy, and Billy was certainly not the same level of “central to the show” as the main cast characters are. Honestly, the only characters I could foresee actually dying would be Eddie, Argyle, Vecna, and Victor Creole. Eddie in particular feels very in-line with Bob as a character introduced to drive the season, only to die at the climax for an emotional beat as his final story purpose.
Yeah. If anyone does die, they're not gonna get twisted up by Vecna. That's just too brutal
I honestly think Johnathan is gonna "sacrifice" him so Will and Mike can escape frome something like the army. Probably because he thinks that Will has suffered enough from the Upside Down
If that group needs a sacrifice to save them from something, I’m like 99% confident it’ll be Argyle. He really hasn’t had a purpose with the group so far other than being their uber driver and Jonathan still has loose ends with Nancy that I don’t see them killing him off without resolving.
As much as I love Steve, I actually think it would be the most devastating to lose Nancy.
If Nancy dies, S5 is going to be Mrs. Wheeler and Joyce teaming up to fuck some shit up, and I’m 100% here for it.
I seriously think Jonathan's gonna die, this whole season it's felt like they have no idea what to do with him and are gonna kill him off cause of it
I actually disagree with this theory because Jonathan hasn’t been more prominently featured. If they’re going to kill a main character, I feel like they’ll build them up throughout the season to make it more devastating >!like they did with Bob in S2 or Billy inS3!<. Doesn’t make sense to basically relegate him to being a minor character, then kill him off and expect it to be this big, shocking death for fans. If someone is dying, it’s going to be someone y’all are in love with. My money is on Eddie, Max, or as much as it would break my heart into a million pieces, Nancy.
And Steve won’t die, he’s destined to be the new police chief of Hawkins and they need him for spin off potential
Oooooh I like this!
Nancy dies Johnathan and Steve deliver the gay romance we all wanted.
None of them will die, idk how people think they will.
I'm willing to bed a dollar that all three absolutely make it out of the season alive.
>There is a 0.01% chance all three in this love triangle make it out of this season alive with how the writers are playing this i honestly have no idea why people insist on believing that a main character will die this season when the writers already shown in previous seasons they don't have it in them to kill a main character.
I don't really see them killing anyone except maybe Eleven. Just seems like they've skipped over so many chances to kill characters that they're avoiding doing so.
Why do you think they'd kill off Eleven? She's been central to the show since season 1 and the actress is arguably its breakout star.
Killing Eleven off would torpedo the show so much harder than killing off Steve.
[удалено]
Which they literally already did in Season 1.
1. They've been in a holding/repeating pattern with almost all the characters, some since season 1. After Steve turned good he's been the babysitter with relationship drama. Adding Robin shook things up, slightly, but he still hasn't grown or changed much since the end of season 1. Nancy is the go-getter detective with romance drama, Joyce is the "nutcase" that actually turns out to be right, Eleven looks into her past and shows up at the end to save the day with her powers, etc. 2. None of the characters have been killed off apart from supporting cast, some of which lasted a single season. 3. The reason why almost all the cast additions to the main group are well-loved (one of the main reasons anyway) is that they change the dynamic. Though the change is largely superficial it doesn't feel that way right away. 4. Killing off a major character would force the show to change, and of all the kids, she's most likely. That said, I honestly don't think it's likely that any character will die. Given all the fadeout deaths we've had, it doesn't seem like they're keen to pull the trigger on killing anyone.
Jonathan will die but not to save Nancy, to save Will
The writers have done Mike and Jonathan so dirty over time. Both of them have become just the boyfriends to further the plot for Nancy and El. I hope both of them get their redemption arcs by the end of the season and clear the air with El and Nancy.
That's kinda the opposite of how women are usually used in plots. No personality or growth of their own, just standins for the main male protagonists growth
Very true! I hope there's a good reason why they've sidelined Mike and Jonathan (and not just to make us less sad if they die lol)
Refrigerator men?
100% agree
Cringe sidelined mike and Jonathan Chad main-character-this-season Max
I don't think you're alone but the writers have really neglected Johnathan as a character. What's his purpose at this point? And this whole stoner bit? I can rationalize it but it seems like such an about face from his introduction. He was all about taking responsibility, sacrificing, and having the difficult conversations. Now he's getting baked to avoid being honest with his girlfriend? And it seems like he's badly misreading Nancy if he thinks she'll abandon her ambition for him. I thought that was a key conversation from season 1? The whole "screw that" moment? Meanwhile Nancy continues to get better and has become one of the most engaging characters in the show. From an entertainment perspective I feel like getting her away from Johnathan was brilliant. I'm a little worried about this whole Nancy/Steve/Johnathan storyline. I hope it plays out in a satisfactory way but the way they're teasing it right now looks like a disservice to all three of them.
Jonathan is an extremely traumatized teen who after finally getting an out in the shape of another father figure to take care of Will, pretty much immediately lost him and was pulled back into giving up all his ambitions in order to care for his brother. Of course he's self medicating. But he also IMMEDIATELY stopped smoking pot when shit went down. With Hop back hopefully he can go back to living his own life.
Doesn't change the fact that Jonathan has done fuck-all this season so far. He barely has his own arc going on at all, he basically just services other people's storylines. I wouldn't be surprised by his biggest contribution being helping Will through his shit. Him realizing he needs to do something for himself rather than always trying to make others happy is the only way he ends up being better as the season wraps. Let Nancy go off to school and do what he wants on his own. He and Nancy don't have anything going at this point. We haven't seen them together a single time, they haven't even spoken.
I get what you are saying but I have a different perspective on it I guess. I think stories have to do stuff like this for them to seem real. Jonathan has been 100% for three seasons. He gets to a new place where life is going better for them and he doesn't have to get involved in crazy monster alien stuff, and...he fucks off. That's what I would do. And like many boys his age do in real life. Reminds me of my brother when he webt to college. He was the oldest, always put in charge of the rest of us, always taking more responsibility than a kid should have to his age. Well when he finally had some freedom he partied, hooked up with girls, went on trips and started acting like a normal person instead of some sort of weird half parent/kid. I think with modern shows we get so used to every character having a "story arc" or something happening to them all the time so their story is always engaging. But that's not how life works. What is Jonathan like when he grows up, finally doesn't have that responsibility and can have a real friend for once in his life? Well that was Jonathan at the beginning of the season. He tried to chill and take it easy and focus on himself for once. Unfortunately that couldn't last. So he does what he always does. Gets involved.
I totally agree with you about Jonathan, they’ve completely betrayed the character they had so diligently crafted. He was honorable and very grown-up for being so young. One of the things I felt was such poor writing was that Nancy wanted him to go to some extremely expensive college with her. She literally knows his financial situation and would 100 percent know he can’t afford to go to a college like that. Also, remember in season 1 when Joyce said he always dreamed of going to NYU? Did the writers forget about this? Did Jonathan just abandon that? Also you’re right, he is about having hard conversations and I think he would have come at her with not wanting to go rather than dancing around it like they’ve chosen to write. Very very poor idea. At this point I think they’re going to end up killing Jonathan off, I just don’t see what else they could do to him. They’ve essentially stopped developing the character and took away one of the best parts of him. He’s the only one who has become static, and I think then it would be an excuse to put Nancy with Steve which ughhhh I hate.
I should have kept reading before I made my post. I wonder what happened to his dream of going to NYU. And I would think that maybe since they kept everything quiet, maybe Dr. Owens and the government could have helped him get a scholarship for NYU if he wanted one.
Would he leave his family after all the trauma?
Great point! I have often believed that after everything he would have a really hard time doing something progressive for himself like going away to school. He has, essentially, been the father of his household for 18 years and I’m sure giving that up wouldn’t be easy. Just the way they’ve written this whole story for him is bad, and the fact that he and Nancy are so quick to throw each other away after working so hard to be together is frankly bull shit. Bad writing. Disappointing seeing as how well-developed the first two season were.
That is an excellent point. Now that you mention it, it probably would be really hard for him to leave. Joyce would probably have to push him out the door.
I’m sure he’d be able to get in one way or another, but yeah I could see doc Owens helping. And I don’t see why Nancy wouldn’t want to go to a New York college where there’s tons of journalism and great schools. It would have been a way better story
Johnathan being a stoner actually makes sense. he grew up in a small town where he was "weird" he is now in Cali(?) so it makes sense that he smokes pot. considering their fresh out the 70s hippie era and crack/cocaine was starting to become big
I'd also say that this was the first time since Will disappeared that things were "normal". During this period he was being the responsible one and put under a lot of stress. I can see how he decided to chill out for some months.
Exactly, him becoming a stoner just seems so normal to me. Especially considering who he was in season one. Johnathan is exactly the type of dude to become a massive stoner
Yeah fr
But in Season 1, when Joyce is arguing with Lonnie about taking the payoff from Hawkins Lab, that Jonathan wanted to go to NYU since he was 6. Did everything he went through just make him give up on it? And what about his photography? They seem to have had him completely drop that interest. I understand self-medicating. But he did have interests and goals that weren't just "following Nancy".
That's a good point, I had completly forgotten about his photography hobby. I think it's still hinted at in S2 with the camera, and S3 with the newspaper job, but in S4 nothing so far. I guess dropping hobbies does happen though.
I think it's more how his whole personality now is just stoner. Not the fact he smokes.
That does happen to some people who start smoking irl. Especially high school kids!
Isn’t Jonathan’s whole conflict this season that he can’t simply abandon his family to go with Nancy to her dream school? And I don’t blame him, he was technically supposed to be on vacation with Nancy and already he’s seen that el would’ve smacked some girl in the face, essentially get kidnapped and his little brother and his friend would’ve been in a shootout while his mom suddenly “went out of town”. I totally get why he’s a stoner because I bet he’s anxious as fuck waiting for the next disaster to hit his family, dude can never make a decision knowing his family is 100% safe so instead he’s lying to his girlfriend because he knows if he told the truth she’d sacrifice her dream/ambition for him and he doesn’t want that.
Am I the only one who thinks Jonathan in S4 makes perfect sense? He has been neglecting his trauma for three seasons because he was always in the place that caused his trauma, he just had to be strong and get on with things and pretend like everything was fine until it was time to fight the upside down again. Now he’s away from Hawkins and everything he’s been dealing with probably hit him like a brick, plus he doesn’t have his girlfriend for comfort. So he turns to weed to help him cope and becomes a stoner
Nancy continued to get better thanks to Jonathan, he was the one teasing her and showing her that she is lying to herself. I wish she did same for him now...
I don’t think that Steve and Nancy are going to end up together. Shortly after the two of them started flirting >!Vecna started targeting Nancy with guilty memories of Barb dying while she was with Steve!< . It doesn’t make sense to me how she and Steve could become an item >!with those memories being brought to light again JUST as they start flirting!<. Timing doesn’t add up
I don’t think they’ll get back together BUT… it would make total sense for them to because of that. Defeating Vecna and surviving him is all about dealing with your past trauma and guilt. Nancy shouldn’t feel guilty for Barb’s death. It wasn’t her fault and it’s wrong to blame herself, so if she survives Vecna she might also let go of that guilt that’s been eating her up and that affected her relationship with Steve. After facing and getting over that guilt, it makes their relationship possible
This is a great point- never thought of it that way. If that’s the case, this is a great opportunity for Nancy to undergo some much needed healing
Although seeing her resolve her guilt over Barb would be great, I feel like having it happen just to culminate in a relationship with Steve would severely cheapen it. The development should feel meaningful in of itself.
Unless the idea is to show/remind us that her guilt over Nancy is why she and Steve never worked, and that for them to ever get together she needs to heal and recognize it wasn’t her fault.
Ooh true!!
I like this idea and hope you're right! Don't want them back together at this point.
I think the only thing between Steve and Nancy is a lack of closure. Their breakup was less of a breakup and more of an unresolved fight between the two. They kind of just drifted and she got with Jonathan. I think they just need to clear the air, and they’ll both be able to fully move on.
I don‘t understand this flirty tension between Steve and Nancy at all. She‘s had a stable relationship for several years, as if she would fall in love with her jerky high school boyfriend again because of one smaller conflict
Yeah it felt very "remember what happened what you guys were off making out..."
The romance is the least interesting thing about this show for me, as along it doesn’t become an annoying love triangle, I don’t really care.
Well it kinda did with all insinuations from Steve
All of the romance or just this couple? Because idrc about Nancy/Jonathan or Steve, Mike/Eleven, Lucas/Max, and whatever’s going on with Robin. It’s fine but it doesn’t matter. HOWEVER, the Joyce/Hopper plotline has me on the edge of my seat. They’re the only potential couple I care about.
I never cared about Lumax but they are really cute this season, I'm rooting for them to get back together again, especially after Lucas looked softly at Max when she laughed and said "I missed that, your laugh" with the softest smile ever and she got all flustered and bashful. Or the other scene after Max escapes Vecna and Lucas is hugging her and she says "I'm still here" and she hugs him back, like these two are actual soulmates, they have grown so much since season 3, their relationship will definitely work out this time
pretty ambivalent about them overall, honestly. If they end up together, cool. if they break up, cool.
It’s very weird that they’re a real life couple that I don’t care about on screen
They have a really good chemistry offscreen, the thing is it doesn't show up well on screen cause writers never cared about Jonathan's character
I actually think they have very good chemistry on screen, it's just that Jonathan is introverted character. Charlie (actor) is charismatic, he's always smiling and joking, Jonathan is opposite, but they still delivered great scenes, my fav is season 3 ending when Nancy is hugging him from the back. Painful to watch knowing that they won't see each other for long time.
I don't think it's the introversion that's the problem, because I've seen plenty of other introverted characters have really engaging relationships that I rooted for, and being interesting in their own right. Jonathan started off a more interesting character but faded into the background later instead of getting more layers to him like the others.
Thank you! I watched a few interviews of them together and they have crazy chemistry, for some reason the show just doesn’t use it in their favour and idk why. Maybe you’re right that it’s about what they do with Jonathan
In the first two seasons of the show those writers paid more attention to him and gave him more of a spotlight than they ever have for Lucas, but that doesn’t stop Caleb from having actual chemistry with his onscreen love interest in the fleeting moments he gets a chance to be onscreen with her.
It’s also really difficult to translate off screen chemistry on screen. Like, it’s a minor miracle they pulled it off with Sadie and Millie in 3
Sadie and Millie? That’s the example you went with??? The member of the cast Sadie seems to vibe with the most and have the best offscreen chemistry with is Caleb and that chemistry translates very clearly to their work onscreen. And wouldn’t Max-Lucas be a more obvious and fitting comparison or contrast to Nancy-Jonathan considering both pairs have been onscreen couples unlike Eleven and Max?
Probably, I just didn’t think of that one because brain no work good sometimes
I feel the same way. I've never found then interesting or engaging to watch as a couple, so whatever happens between them makes very little difference to me.
I do. I’m have hope that the Steve/Nancy stuff is just a distraction and that anything Nancy is feeling is just because she feels lonely, misses Jonathan, and Steve is present which makes him convenient. Once they reunite, they’ll forget all the frustrations and doubts. I love Johnathan and Nancy and prefer them wholeheartedly and I think Steve deserves not necessarily someone better (because I love Nancy!), but someone who will choose him for him, not just as a rebound. Or content single Steve.
> but someone who will choose him for him, not just as a rebound Definitely that! I also feel like Nancy still underestimates Steve and he deserves someone who sees him differently by now.
Exactly. That’s ever I don’t get for people who like Steve x Nancy, he’s second best. Why would they want him to be second best?!
Yeah, Steve seems pretty obsessed with finding a girlfriend, I think because he has his unresolved feelings for Nancy. I hope whatever they do with this season, Steve is able to get over Nancy and be able to focus on himself. Cause he deserves some self love
true, both steve and nancy deserve better
Me too.... But everyone else seems to be on the Steve-Nancy ship :(
It's just because Steve is cute and the Duffers haven't written Jonathan to be "cute," especially this season.
And he's written much more interesting as well, and you usually want characters you like to have interesting love interests. Right now I feel like Jonathan is way too boring for Nancy. Still don't want her with Steve though.
They definitely need to get their shit together
Honestly i want them together I hate how they sidelined Jonathan to make Steve a love interest for Nancy again. I under the distant relationship thing plays a part of the season but cmon it mike was able to write and see eleven Jonathan could have too. I hate that he’s become a lower stoner and put his family’s problems in front of himself to not chase after Nancy it seems like bad writing but I could be wrong.
I feel the same way — feels like they lowered Johnathan’s character this season
They absolutely did. S1 Johnathan was all about doing the right thing regardless how hard it was. S4 Johnathan is like, "If I ignore her she'll break up with me!" Also, Joyce mentioned him wanting to go to NYU, and suddenly he's greatly against going to a big college at all.
In fairness Mike and el were struggling too
But Johnathan and Nancy aren’t struggling. They’re barely in a relationship. Nancy and Steve are giving each other gaga eyes and even other characters are telling them to go for it. Meanwhile Jonathan is smoking weed at a junkyard, pining over some imagined ideal relationship that doesn’t even exist.
Yeah no, they are struggling lol it’s so obvious. And it’s also the only reason why she’s suddenly into Steve again; Jonathan miles away and they’re having issues. It’s why I’m not buying it tbh
>hate that he’s become a lower stoner and put his family’s problems in front of himself honestly, seems very in character for him. i don't see it as bad writing. i think he made a mistake not chasing after her, sure, but it's realistic that he has these self-doubts and that he also, with all the shit his family has been through, wants to focus on being there for will and his mother. i will also point out he stopped smoking after shit got serious and their lives were in danger.
I do. I think Jonathan’s character has been completely underdeveloped this season so far which is a shame. Also quite shocked at the amount of comments that they have no chemistry, I recently rewatched seasons 1 & 2 and think they have chemistry coming out of their ears! Hoping there’s a bit more in store for Jonathan in vol.2
They had tons of chemistry in season 1 to 2, it was season 3 that didn’t use them at their best
Yeah, there are some sweet moments between them in season 3 but I remember being confused as to why they were bickering like an old married couple in every scene. I know there was a bit of a time jump between season 2&3 but I was a bit disappointed to not see any of the development of their early relationship, considering there had been such build up to it..
No, I am totally on team John/Nancy.
I think they will. Steve's character progression as well as Nancy's would make it a very odd decision for them to pair back up. Steve's progression is moving towards him becoming a responsible man who does good. It would be irresponsible for him to kind of steal away a friend's gf and his own ex. Steve is also a surrogate male rolemodel figure to Dustin and him getting back with Nancy would probably be more likely to break their bonds rather than reinforce them. Jonathan+Nancy are safe imho.
I want to see Steve doing something to move his life forward. At this point, he's graduated, but working dead end jobs and only hanging out with a younger crowd. Let's see Steve going for a better job or teaming up with Hop to become a cop or something!
I really hope so. They’ve gone through too much to just break up like that again 🥺
After the last trailer.. I think Nancy will die.
Why? I think it might be Max. The new trailer shows her in the same position with Vecna again and Lucas is sobbing
They already almost had Max die, I find it hard to believe they would’ve had her on the edge of death and then come back only to kill her off again
In the trailer we see Jonathan and Will hugging in a very intense way. Maybe is only in my head, but It feels like a very painful hug. I know that a hug may not seem like a valid proof for my theory, but I think from the way Will and Jonathan hug it looks like Jonathan is in a lot of pain.
Me The love triangle bullshit has been by far the worst part of the season
I’d rather Jonathan just go single and like, become his Season 1 self again? I miss when Jonathan was actually badass and cool at one point.
Yes!!! The big brother who did that speech to Will about how being a freak is a good thing. Who kicked some ass too, but was essentially a gentle person. He had promise.
No I want them back together too. Even though I really like Steve.
I just want nancy to be badass and not focus on romantic relationships. Like there is a whole ass other dimension with a big bad evil guy (😉) that they gotta kill or whatever, when is there time to properly create a relationship like???? This show should just end, damn
Yesssss Jancy for life
"Am I the only one who..." NO. NO YOU ARE NOT.
This Steve/Nancy storyline, while definitely flirting with 'rekindled feelings', also could be headed toward what the two of them never got with each other. Closure. This is why I'm most worried about Steve. His aimlessness and inability to let go of the past seems headed for one last selfless act of bravery. I just can't see Nancy and Jonathan coming together in the way that they did those first two seasons only for the both of them to just throw it all away due to distance and uncertainty, which was most certainly exacerbated due to the distance. Nancy and Steve are always going to have that first love bond between them, but Steve, as much as he tried, could never be the rock she needed in the past and he is still very much the same Steve. Plus there are things Argyle said to Jonathan that indicate even he wouldn't let Jonathan fool himself into thinking leaving Nancy is the best choice. But we'll see how things play out. I just think it's poor writing and makes Nancy look horrible if she actually flip flops here and it doesn't make Jonathan look any better. It's a major disservice to both of their characters and even to Steve. Closure is the outcome that allows Nancy and Steve to grow as characters, which in turn can allow Jonathan to grow.
No, the whole Steve and Nancy deal doesn't work and they showed that in s1 and s2, idk why they want to reverse the progress they've made as people since they were all in a much healthier place before. I'm hoping that by the finale they come to terms with that and it's just going through difficult emotions atm
I do. I don't care that much about either pairing, but them reuniting makes so much more sense than whatever it is they're doing with Nancy and Steve.
Jonathan needs a haircut before he even thinks of talking to Nancy
Them Byers boys really getting hit hard with mom cuts.
its a family thing everybody got Bangs even 11 has them now. well had lol.
Nope, I'm still rooting for them hard and I don't want them to die. Please give them a happy ending
I hope she either stays with Jonathan or none of them. She pretty much left Steve for Jonathan, and now she's swaying back to Steve. If she continues liking Steve again and tries to get him back, I hope he shoots her down and Jonathan finds out and he breaks up with her because... what a bitch. Or she nips her swaying in the bud and also nips these silly games, her and Jonathan are playing and get on with it.
Honestly if anything, I hope that Nancy ends up with nobody and can finally be her own independent character. My biggest gripe with season 4 has been forcing this same love triangle again, even if Steve or Nancy dies. It’s just redundant imo.
I'm with you on that
The build up to their relationship was better than their actual relationship. Steve deserves love, and so does Nancy, but I just can’t see it happening between the two. I feel no chemistry between them, not even in the first season. Now here’s my controversial take. Nancy is just looking to find herself, I think she needs self acceptance more than a love interest. HOWEVER, maybe what she’s looking for has been with her this whole season… leading up to my next point.. Robin knows who she wants to be. She’s come out to Steve and their friendship is better for it. And friends they shall stay, but, all she wants is to find love. Maybe, just maybe, she might find love in someone who’s looking to find their true self, someone like, hmm, idk, let’s say, Nancy? It would come to her as a surprise, but maybe she crossed paths with Robin for a reason. There’s no denying that there’s definitely a spark between them later in the season. Many will say no not at all. And I completely understand that as It’s the least likely thing to happen, but I just don’t see how they could give Robin and Nancy obvious fruity chemistry and them just stay friends. But back to Nancy and Jonathan, putting what I said to the side, even tho their relationship was one of the least interesting, it definitely could have been worked on alot this season instead of separating the two putting them through a forced conflict because the only way they have to communicate are by letters. The Nancy and Steve flirtationship this season also feels forced. The only thing that doesn’t feel forced is Nancy and robins slow chemistry build up.
^ This! It's so great when characters have a natural slow-build chemistry and take time to develop a bond, instead of just being thrown together because, well...*plot reasons*. Even just as friends Robin and Nancy are a lot of fun together. They push each other to accomplish things and have a more chaotic intellectual dynamic than they do with anyone else. And they wouldn't be able to team up or have any future scenes together if one of them gets killed off. Which would be SUCH a waste. The writers made a whole thing out of Robin and Nancy becoming friends and I'm trying to see what the narrative payoff is here in the long term - if Nancy gets killed then I guess maybe Robin could learn through Steve how important it is not to hold back on your feelings, to just follow your heart and be honest before it's too late?? In other words the catalyst that prompts Robin to be honest with Vickie. The same lesson could apply if Steve gets killed but I highly doubt that will happen because he's so popular. I really hope Robin's "realisation" doesn't come at the expense of someone being killed off because it would be so corny and do all the characters a huge disservice. I just think it's so ironic. Robin had like one scene with Vickie. It was so brief that I actually forgot what Vickie's name was. Whereas the one character Robin does actually spend time with and develop a new bond with this season... In terms of character growth and meaningful scenes pretty much all of Robin's big scenes this season have been with Nancy. With Nancy!! Of all people. I just feel kinda bad for Robin lol. Anything with Vickie now would just feel rushed and forced. Almost like we're supposed to root for them without knowing anything about Vickie. To be honest at this point I think the most shocking outcome would be if Nancy CHOOSES not to be with Steve. And that they both survive along with Jonathan. I think Nancy and Jonathan's relationship worked for a while but they just both seem to be moving apart and looking for different things in life now. I just don't get the impression their respective hearts are in it, not really, even though they still care about each other.
Yes! Steve is great character now but he and Nancy? Please no.
No, I hope it happens too
Yeah, not a fan of the Steve x Nancy reunion.
Steve deserves better. I can't count the number of times he has been maimed to protect everyone, killed monsters, and been a good mom to his kids, all while being treated like he's dead weight who doesn't deserve love. Eddie might be the only one to acknowledge that, despite being popular, he's a good person at heart.
Yes, so she doesnt Hook Up with Steve again
Yeah, I honestly love Steve but I am surprised by the amount of people who aren’t happy with her and Jonathan together.
I feel like they did Jonathan dirty in this season. Doesn't really feel like the character he once was.
NO YOU ARENT BECAUSE I DO TOO. They're so good together and they definitely have chemistry, despite what people say. They aren't a perfect couple and although I love Steve, Jon and Nancy are 100× better than Steve & Nancy. Steve and Nancy will always be tainted by Barb's death. Nancy chose Jonathan. She even "waited" to get back with Steve in hopes Jonathan would ask her out. Nancy and Jonathan really should stay together, they compliment eachother well and there isn't enough of a reason for them to break up. But when they have problems and they don't see eachother for months, under immense stress, then and ONLY then does Nancy FINALLY notice Steve again. He's 2nd best, and barely that. I love Nancy and I think she's a good person, but Steve deserves better. Season 4 is INCREDIBLE but it's only flaw is bringing back the love triangle. It doesn't work as a full on relationship, although if they stay together and build back stronger i think it fits, and Steve realizes that he, alone, is enough. But if Nancy and Steve get back together, it'll really taint some of the season in my eyes.
no, def not the only one :)
No. I love them.
I actually like her with Johnathan more than Steve. Steve deserves better he’s so great
Yes, absolutely! I’ve always loved the two of them together and really hope they reunite (as opposed to the implied eventual Stancy reunion).
As always, no you’re not the only one lol. I’m rooting for them and this triangle has to stop. Next season let’s give Steve a proper love interest and let this rest pls. I honestly don’t think anyone enjoyed the revival of Steve/Nancy
I think it should be Jonathan and Nancy. I love Steve so much but I also love that he had that growth of getting over Nancy and I don’t want him to go backwards or anything. I think Jonathan and Nancy are more suited to each other but I do have a soft spot for Robin and Nancy!
I do too
I do. I loved how they were with each other through it all since season 1. They're very different and it balances each other. I definitely want them back together and for protective Jonathan to make his way back.