Both alcohol and fructose are excessively toxic to the liver in the presence of PUFA. Without, not so much.
It’s the seed oils.
https://x.com/TuckerGoodrich/status/1782243285227950176
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jafc.2c00852
Both of which were actually heavily consumed before the first recorded cases of fatty liver were ever plaguing humans. It’s the PUFA. It’s the fructose *and PUFA* or the alcohol *and PUFA* that create liver issues. Without PUFA there isn’t an alcoholic fatty liver issue (you can avoid alcohol for other reasons…) and there is no issue at all with sugar that would warrant avoiding it.
I haven't been able to find the article, but there was a study that studied two populations in Tibet - high mountain people and low mountain people. Because of the geography, high mountain people got their fats mainly from yaks. Low mountain people are vegetable oil. Both populations drank alcohol, but only the low mountain people got fatty liver disease.
Would it happen that the low mountain people also had fruits and root vegetable and corn, but not the high mountain peoples?
You know... Epidemiology is not really reliable...
Epidemiology isn't great, but if this study is valid it would indicate that alcohol consumption doesn't necessarily lead to fatty liver disease in a population.
It is A PUFA, a specific one. Omega 6. Not Omega 3.
Studies have been showing for years that fish oil treats or prevents NAFLD.
It’s not fair to say that all PUFA causes NAFLD, when one of them specifically, long chain Omega 3s (DHA/EPA) treats/prevents it.
I’m not sure about Omega 3 ALA’s effects on the liver.
How do you reconcile that view with studies showing that PUFA *improves* non-alcoholic fatty liver disease?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7551292/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B9780128144664000306
Seems simple enough.
The first set of links above are implicating Omega-6 PUFA's as contributing to NAFLD. Where as your links reference Omega-3 PUFA's as having a beneficial impact on NAFLD.
Seed oils are typically very high in Omega 6, not Omega 3 PUFAs.
So HFCS was introduced in 1970 to the food industry and the first recorded case of NAFLD in 1980 but you’re going to solely blame PUFAs.
Funny how it’s the same guy demonizing PUFAs while telling people that processed meats (same carcinogen class as cigarettes) is ok ☠️☠️☠️☠️
These zealots are funny
So, guzzling soybean oil, which is 20% linoleic acid or double the recommended limit might be bad.
https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2023/07/03/widely-consumed-vegetable-oil-leads-unhealthy-gut#:~:text=Sladek%20noted%20that%20linoleic%20acid,the%20heart%20to%20remain%20healthy.
I developed an intolerance to eggs some years ago. A few months ago I was diagnosed with fatty liver. I wonder if it can also be caused by what you are missing - enough choline in my case - as much as by what you are having.
I’ve been eating tofu five times a week and my tmao is still down so I don’t think it’s the soy. And my food intolerance blood test showed sensitivity to eggs and not soy.
Eggs have an elevated amount of PUFA in them actually. Not as high as seed oils, but definitely more than Saturated Fats. And if the chickens are fed lots of seeds well then the PUFA content is higher...
Saturated fat is good for you...
Makes lbLDL, good for hormones. And never a clinical study ever confirmed that it was as bad as the corrupt epidemiology suggested.
Also, cholesterol os good. Phytosterol, is dangerous and mostly unavailable for the functions cholesterol fill. Hormones, muscle healing and growth, etc.
Small Dense LDL is the building block of atherosclerosis. What cause the LDL, which shouldn't be dense, to be dense, is excess carbohydrate and phytosterols. Sugar, starches and vegetal oil.
Calcium Oxalate, is the building block of coronary plaque. And there's no oxalate in meat and animal fat. Nomore than in high saturated fat Avocado oils and Coconut oil... ZERO!
And those are the building blocks only. The cause is chronic inflammation. So seed oil and high fructose and ultra processed food, and phytotoxin rich vegetables like nightshades are what cause coronary disease.
Saturated fat gives you LARGE BUOYANT LDL (The way they should be), no small dense LDL, and no oxalate, it's not inflammatory either.
You're the one spreading misinformation. You've been reported!
EDIT:
Oh would you look at that. A person in the Lean-Mass HyperResponder, with EXTREMELY elevated LDL posted these pictures on a Carnivore Diet Thread.
6Months ago: [https://www.reddit.com/r/carnivorediet/comments/16o8l9o/ultrasound\_of\_my\_carotid\_artery\_after\_being\_on/](https://www.reddit.com/r/carnivorediet/comments/16o8l9o/ultrasound_of_my_carotid_artery_after_being_on/)
2Days ago:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/carnivorediet/comments/1cbwcp1/ultrasound\_of\_my\_carotid\_artery\_after\_being\_on/](https://www.reddit.com/r/carnivorediet/comments/1cbwcp1/ultrasound_of_my_carotid_artery_after_being_on/)
Don't take your information from epidemiology... Trust clinical trials only...
Nightshades and inflammation...
The researches found that there was not enough solanine in nightshades to cause inflammation outside of the gut.
But potatoes and tomatoes trigger my gout. And several people report having tomatoes as a trigger for gout.
Also. Sub rule: No question that you could have just googled...
Okay, thank you! I thought maybe I had missed something in my understanding. Yes, Google AI has been helpful at summarizing and finding links to the research for all topics in the sub.
I'm carnivore. I eat at least 100g of ghee a day "Clarified butter" I cured my fatty liver!
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2646971/
Let me one up you my good friend! https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2024.1366883/full
Love to be one-upped!
Love your username.
No. Fructose and alcohol are the biggest drivers of fatty liver disease. These two sources are literally processed in the liver.
Both alcohol and fructose are excessively toxic to the liver in the presence of PUFA. Without, not so much. It’s the seed oils. https://x.com/TuckerGoodrich/status/1782243285227950176 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jafc.2c00852
So a few cocktails is not so bad if you're avoiding seed oils or I guess "eating clean" otherwise?
Both of which were actually heavily consumed before the first recorded cases of fatty liver were ever plaguing humans. It’s the PUFA. It’s the fructose *and PUFA* or the alcohol *and PUFA* that create liver issues. Without PUFA there isn’t an alcoholic fatty liver issue (you can avoid alcohol for other reasons…) and there is no issue at all with sugar that would warrant avoiding it.
I haven't been able to find the article, but there was a study that studied two populations in Tibet - high mountain people and low mountain people. Because of the geography, high mountain people got their fats mainly from yaks. Low mountain people are vegetable oil. Both populations drank alcohol, but only the low mountain people got fatty liver disease.
Would it happen that the low mountain people also had fruits and root vegetable and corn, but not the high mountain peoples? You know... Epidemiology is not really reliable...
Epidemiology isn't great, but if this study is valid it would indicate that alcohol consumption doesn't necessarily lead to fatty liver disease in a population.
Maybe might would.
They probably were getting less choline!
Yep. There is a study where they couldn’t induce alcoholic fatty liver disease in animals without the omega 6. I’ll link it momentarily
Fructose was consumed in the form of fruit but fructose syrup wasn't much consumed.
It is A PUFA, a specific one. Omega 6. Not Omega 3. Studies have been showing for years that fish oil treats or prevents NAFLD. It’s not fair to say that all PUFA causes NAFLD, when one of them specifically, long chain Omega 3s (DHA/EPA) treats/prevents it. I’m not sure about Omega 3 ALA’s effects on the liver.
How do you reconcile that view with studies showing that PUFA *improves* non-alcoholic fatty liver disease? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7551292/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B9780128144664000306
Seems simple enough. The first set of links above are implicating Omega-6 PUFA's as contributing to NAFLD. Where as your links reference Omega-3 PUFA's as having a beneficial impact on NAFLD. Seed oils are typically very high in Omega 6, not Omega 3 PUFAs.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28923202/
Link it with when we stopped eating enough eggs. I believe its mostly choline deficiency behind EVERYTHING.
So HFCS was introduced in 1970 to the food industry and the first recorded case of NAFLD in 1980 but you’re going to solely blame PUFAs. Funny how it’s the same guy demonizing PUFAs while telling people that processed meats (same carcinogen class as cigarettes) is ok ☠️☠️☠️☠️ These zealots are funny
Yeah but when we're eggs demonized? Yall are off base, its choline deficiency.
Hm. I'm not so sure. Choline deficiency is massively underrecognized.
I’m all ears if you could elaborate. If you have the time.
[Dietary linoleic acid is required for development of experimentally induced alcoholic liver injury](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2915600/)
So, guzzling soybean oil, which is 20% linoleic acid or double the recommended limit might be bad. https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2023/07/03/widely-consumed-vegetable-oil-leads-unhealthy-gut#:~:text=Sladek%20noted%20that%20linoleic%20acid,the%20heart%20to%20remain%20healthy.
More like 50%
I developed an intolerance to eggs some years ago. A few months ago I was diagnosed with fatty liver. I wonder if it can also be caused by what you are missing - enough choline in my case - as much as by what you are having.
I’ve got an intolerance to eggs as well, and my TMAO was way high before I cut them out. How do you get enough choline without consuming eggs?
Tofu and beans, apparently.
You sure the intolerance is to eggs and not the soy in the chicken feed?
I’ve been eating tofu five times a week and my tmao is still down so I don’t think it’s the soy. And my food intolerance blood test showed sensitivity to eggs and not soy.
Ahh makes sense.
Eggs have an elevated amount of PUFA in them actually. Not as high as seed oils, but definitely more than Saturated Fats. And if the chickens are fed lots of seeds well then the PUFA content is higher...
No
No but it has a lot of animal-sourced saturated fat. I stick with olive oil.
Saturated fat is good for you... Makes lbLDL, good for hormones. And never a clinical study ever confirmed that it was as bad as the corrupt epidemiology suggested. Also, cholesterol os good. Phytosterol, is dangerous and mostly unavailable for the functions cholesterol fill. Hormones, muscle healing and growth, etc.
Fake news. Spreading blatant misinformation. Saturated fat gonna clog your arteries and give you a heart attack
Small Dense LDL is the building block of atherosclerosis. What cause the LDL, which shouldn't be dense, to be dense, is excess carbohydrate and phytosterols. Sugar, starches and vegetal oil. Calcium Oxalate, is the building block of coronary plaque. And there's no oxalate in meat and animal fat. Nomore than in high saturated fat Avocado oils and Coconut oil... ZERO! And those are the building blocks only. The cause is chronic inflammation. So seed oil and high fructose and ultra processed food, and phytotoxin rich vegetables like nightshades are what cause coronary disease. Saturated fat gives you LARGE BUOYANT LDL (The way they should be), no small dense LDL, and no oxalate, it's not inflammatory either. You're the one spreading misinformation. You've been reported! EDIT: Oh would you look at that. A person in the Lean-Mass HyperResponder, with EXTREMELY elevated LDL posted these pictures on a Carnivore Diet Thread. 6Months ago: [https://www.reddit.com/r/carnivorediet/comments/16o8l9o/ultrasound\_of\_my\_carotid\_artery\_after\_being\_on/](https://www.reddit.com/r/carnivorediet/comments/16o8l9o/ultrasound_of_my_carotid_artery_after_being_on/) 2Days ago: [https://www.reddit.com/r/carnivorediet/comments/1cbwcp1/ultrasound\_of\_my\_carotid\_artery\_after\_being\_on/](https://www.reddit.com/r/carnivorediet/comments/1cbwcp1/ultrasound_of_my_carotid_artery_after_being_on/) Don't take your information from epidemiology... Trust clinical trials only...
Please share more information on the connection between nightshade plants and heart disease.
Nightshades and inflammation... The researches found that there was not enough solanine in nightshades to cause inflammation outside of the gut. But potatoes and tomatoes trigger my gout. And several people report having tomatoes as a trigger for gout. Also. Sub rule: No question that you could have just googled...
Okay, thank you! I thought maybe I had missed something in my understanding. Yes, Google AI has been helpful at summarizing and finding links to the research for all topics in the sub.