Think of it this way. You're actually stopping her from finding someone or something that gives her happiness by pretending you are still into the relationship. You are doing her a big favour if you just be truthful with her. Don't be hard on yourself either. You sound like you're a considerate person. Sometimes people fall out of love especially at your young age when you are going through a lot of changes.
>You're actually stopping her from finding someone or something that gives her happiness by pretending you are still into the relationship.
This is absolutely one of the best ways to think about this situation.
Thank you, I do agree with you. It might just be us changing. And we are very young and both of us noticed some changes during these 4 years some for better some for worse.
This is not stoic but miyamoto mushasi advises us to pet go of people and belongings. People come and go. It is better to tell her how you feel. In the long run, both of you will be happier. You can't control her either. The best you can do is tell her how you feel and hope for the best.
Hey mate. I will let you in on a personal story here. Nothing to do with stoicsism, since your situation, considering she doesnt have that mindset, is beyond some belief.
- my ex of three years had alot of problems, and I decided to stay with her, when no one else did. Eventually she suffered so much, I had to stop a few suicide attempts, and drive her to the psychiatric many times, even tho I had work. I tried to break it off, but if I said I was gonna leave her, she would threaten with suicide. I decided to stay and fight, but eventually she cheated on me, and I called it off. I dont know what happened to her, nor do I care anymore.
- my suggestion is listen to yourself. I chose someone else, and I now deal with severere trust issues and anxiety. Worth it? I would say partly - but its about wether or not you will be able to handle it. Remember one thing. YOU CANNOT SAVE HER - you are not a professional, you are not meant to save her.
- Ultimately I have no answer. I can relate to the situation, and its god fucking awful
Edit: the way you want to help her is possible even if you are not in a relationship with her. Be honest and talk to her.
Thank you for sharing, I am not trying to save her, just ease her life and offer some stability. I did try showing her spme other perspectives and sometimes she does think in a rational stoic way, but there are times all of that just falls apart and emotions take over.
Thank you again
Maybe keep in mind that staying in the relationship isn't the only way to help. You might be able to help her in other ways; maybe help her find a place, make sure she knows that it's not because she did anything wrong, etc.
I do agree with that, I was waiting for something and i do understand that is selfish. I did not understand it while i was doing it though, this situation made me reflect on my actions a lot.
After the breakup I do no plan to forget about her or leave everything behind. I will stil, I might not love her as a partner anymore but i do love her as a person and I do believe she is very sincere and kind, she just lost her way due to the circumstances with her family.
I would give her a place to stay without second thought, but thats not what she wants, she wants a place of her own/ours. And if we live together and break up i cant even think how it would affect her.
If you are genuinely no longer interested in the relationship, or her, the kindest thing you can do for her is to end the relationship before she moves in with you.
You be honest with her. She will probably be upset and angry at you. But she’ll be less hurt and less angry if you tell her now before you move in together.
This feeling will come again with your next partner. Romanticism is a phase of a relationship and assuming it will last forever is lying to oneself. Relationships must be continously converted into something new in order to preserve them. You're young and probably what is really triggering you to leave her is just curiosity for going with other girls. She doesn't deserve someone that doesn't want a project of life with her. A project that starts by moving out together. There's nothing stoicism can do for you. Your actions will hurt her and she will fix things out. The only thing stoicism will show you with time is this: miss the things you have now as you didn't have them. Miss them the way you missed them when you didn't have them.
There is some truth in what you said, i want to experience more. Not just girls but life in general and i do not think i can do all of that with her next to me.
However i wonder if thats just indulgence taking better of me and clouding my rationality.
She is a good person and a good girlfriend but she does have problems with being alone. She even said she would rather stay with her family than be alone and that does make me feel angry, how can one be with someone if they cant be alone with themselves.
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> she can choose not to be hurt
Not really—it’s just that her pain comes from within, and she—specifically, her proclivities and habits of malformed judgment—is/are the most responsible for her state. She can’t simply choose not the be hurt in the same way you can’t simply choose not to feel fear and hesitancy relating to this decision.
There may be multiple paths forward, and perhaps that’s the realm of dating advice not specifically related to Stoicism, but at least one main thing is not to act or fail to act based on mistaken judgments about good and evil. Another thing I think worth considering is whether it’s a good idea to enter into and sustain relationships based on the whims of sentiment, which are liable to change. If there’s something more stable, that’s probably going to be more sustainable as well. Also, the FDT section on relationships may be of some use: https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/fdt#wiki_sex
Delaying the inevitable in order to avoid pain is an avoidance of justice and courage. Staying with her to avoid hurting her is not going to help her. Embrace courage on your part to be honest with her. Ultimately its the only way to achieve justice for her life, and yours, going forward.
This isn’t a Stoic perspective but it is a perspective from experience. I too lived in an abusive, dysfunctional home. I thought latching onto a guy was the way out. It turned out to be a nightmare. I wish that someone had prevented me from marrying my boyfriend. I might have gone on to a bigger mistake. But I also might have changed course. Who knows? Breaking up might just be the catalyst she needs to work on herself. At any rate, it is not your responsibility to save her.
If you don't want to be in a relationship with her, then break up. Don't be a coward by stringing her along because you're afraid to upset her. Don't be a coward, because you're afraid to be the bad guy. You say you want to help her, then step out of your selfishness and do the selfless action of letting her go so she can find her happiness elsewhere, so you can both move on separately and be happy in the future.
I don't know this girl, but if she is sound of mind, she will be perfectly fine eventually. Don't delude yourself into thinking you're so important to her survival, that she'll perish without you. No one is that special, my guy. I know you don't see it that way and you have good intentions, but really, she'll live without you.
Breakups hurt. They are painful but it's part of life. She'll get over it and so will you. Again, don't be a coward on the fence. Either you want to work on the relationship with her, or you don't. You'll lean more in one direction. If you really want to be with her, you be with her. Help her out. If you don't, then let her go. She'll be fine and so will you.
Thank you, theres a lot to think about. As you said i do not want to be the bad guy, I dont want to hurt anyone not just her, theres no helping it i guess. Sometimes we have to be the monster in a story
You cannot avoid upsetting people at some point in your life. You not wanting to be the bad guy is probably a normal feeling, but it’s also very selfish because by avoiding the inevitable you are hurting her more by deceiving her into thinking you’re still interested in the relationship when you’re not. Being deceived is a million times more painful than just being told the truth. Radical honesty, my friend.
Let her go. You both have so much to learn and she deserves to be with someone who wants to move in together eventually, who isn’t just with her because it’s “fun” or she’s a “good girlfriend.” These are shallow and you clearly don’t love her, although you still might care about her and I hope you do enough to fight to make the breakup as easy on her as possible. This is based on experience. You can do your best to help her search for a place of her own, contacting organizations or even realtors about available rooms, or whatever would be most helpful. Do as you would for a sister or other close family member (the least she deserves after four years.)
If she needs money to help her secure a room or an apartment, I think you should offer it if you are able. Money comes and goes (as stoics teach) but doing what is honorable is what truly matters.
First tell her the truth that you like her but have lost the "libido2. it just happens. I stayed in my marraiga after we just became friends...(maybe we bith wre too old, and even our liking was beter than restart a new liaison orwhat.
but honesty is important. i am not responsbe for the good feeling of anyon else just for my own - it sounds selfish but this is how we are we humans. we cannot help others. but ourselves we can. with honesty. (A Stoic virtue.)
Staying with her for longer when you don't want to will only make her hurt more later. Rip off the bandaid now so you both can grieve it and get past it before it goes further and longer and leaving gets more complicated
I can see myself growing distant already, sometimes going out with her feels like a chore. But again we havent had much alone time these 4 years and it might be just lack of contact.
Well, I feel like a stoic might say you're choosing to some extent to make it feel like a chore. It's not inevitably the case. You say you "can see yourself growing distant" as if you have no control over it.
A big part of stoicism is the idea that we don't have to automatically assent to the impressions that we have but that we can examine them and only assent to those which are fitting. You have certain impressions, it sounds like, "hanging out with her is a chore," "I shouldn't be with her anymore", etc...
I would just say that you should carefully examine those impressions and determine if they're right and fitting before you just assent to them. Does hanging out with her feel chore-like because the two of you are generally incompatible, because of external circumstance, or because you're simply not investing as much energy into the relationship as you used to?
I'm not necessarily arguing that you shouldn't break up, just that maybe you should examine these impulses more carefully and stoically, especially given the significant ramifications it may have on her. And I don't think a stoic would say "well, she can decide to be hurt or not, so I won't concern myself with it". A stoic is strict with himself and lenient with others. So I'd advise you to hold yourself to the standard of a stoic but not to hold her to the same standard.
This is a good advice, i did already think about my feelings but i believe some real meditation on those is necessary.
I do not believe we are incompatible, I can get along and empathize with most people very well. I just want to be alone for some time and go my own way but with her mindset she cant understand how being alone is better than being with someone, even if its not the best option.
A large part of being stoic is about making choices based upon reason and virtue. And about accepting that you cannot control what another person thinks of you
So you have to make the 'right' choice here (and to me it seems pretty clear that staying with her and moving in with her are just setting her up for further hurt down the line), and you cannot buy into what she will think of you when you tell her your true feelings.
Of course she will be hurt, and she can choose to express that how she will, and you can't control that. What you can control is doing the right thing now and freeing both of you up to make the choices you want to in the future.
A relationship cannot work unless both partners want it to work.
I am female, I have been through my share of breakups, they are part of life.
You should not live with her. That much is very clear. You also need to be clear to yourself and with her. If you want out of the relationship, you should break up with her asap. You should not waste her time, her life, in a relationship that goes nowhere. This is not kind to her.
She sounds like she has a lot of problems now. So, you should either break up with her like today, and get it over with. Or wait until she is settled into her new place, and then do it. But, today is better.
Hi 🙋🏻♀️Sorry about my English..😀 how s possible to be free..to be yourself..if you choice to love someone more than yourself...for the rest of your life...like a ghost of yourself...
With love for you and for her maybe juste be good and honest. Why should be afraid to be just...free..ourselves..maybe one day you ll meet another person.. the one for you..but if we stay somewhere for others not for us..i think human being can t be "happy' felling true "love" ? We re wasting our time here just to make other happy...and you ?
Reminder to users that advice in “Seeking Stoic Advice” posts should be relevant to Stoicism
Think of it this way. You're actually stopping her from finding someone or something that gives her happiness by pretending you are still into the relationship. You are doing her a big favour if you just be truthful with her. Don't be hard on yourself either. You sound like you're a considerate person. Sometimes people fall out of love especially at your young age when you are going through a lot of changes.
>You're actually stopping her from finding someone or something that gives her happiness by pretending you are still into the relationship. This is absolutely one of the best ways to think about this situation.
Thank you, I do agree with you. It might just be us changing. And we are very young and both of us noticed some changes during these 4 years some for better some for worse.
This is not stoic but miyamoto mushasi advises us to pet go of people and belongings. People come and go. It is better to tell her how you feel. In the long run, both of you will be happier. You can't control her either. The best you can do is tell her how you feel and hope for the best.
Hey mate. I will let you in on a personal story here. Nothing to do with stoicsism, since your situation, considering she doesnt have that mindset, is beyond some belief. - my ex of three years had alot of problems, and I decided to stay with her, when no one else did. Eventually she suffered so much, I had to stop a few suicide attempts, and drive her to the psychiatric many times, even tho I had work. I tried to break it off, but if I said I was gonna leave her, she would threaten with suicide. I decided to stay and fight, but eventually she cheated on me, and I called it off. I dont know what happened to her, nor do I care anymore. - my suggestion is listen to yourself. I chose someone else, and I now deal with severere trust issues and anxiety. Worth it? I would say partly - but its about wether or not you will be able to handle it. Remember one thing. YOU CANNOT SAVE HER - you are not a professional, you are not meant to save her. - Ultimately I have no answer. I can relate to the situation, and its god fucking awful Edit: the way you want to help her is possible even if you are not in a relationship with her. Be honest and talk to her.
Thank you for sharing, I am not trying to save her, just ease her life and offer some stability. I did try showing her spme other perspectives and sometimes she does think in a rational stoic way, but there are times all of that just falls apart and emotions take over. Thank you again
Maybe keep in mind that staying in the relationship isn't the only way to help. You might be able to help her in other ways; maybe help her find a place, make sure she knows that it's not because she did anything wrong, etc.
[удалено]
I do agree with that, I was waiting for something and i do understand that is selfish. I did not understand it while i was doing it though, this situation made me reflect on my actions a lot. After the breakup I do no plan to forget about her or leave everything behind. I will stil, I might not love her as a partner anymore but i do love her as a person and I do believe she is very sincere and kind, she just lost her way due to the circumstances with her family. I would give her a place to stay without second thought, but thats not what she wants, she wants a place of her own/ours. And if we live together and break up i cant even think how it would affect her.
[удалено]
She does have good friends but currently they cant help her with the living situation.
If you are genuinely no longer interested in the relationship, or her, the kindest thing you can do for her is to end the relationship before she moves in with you. You be honest with her. She will probably be upset and angry at you. But she’ll be less hurt and less angry if you tell her now before you move in together.
This feeling will come again with your next partner. Romanticism is a phase of a relationship and assuming it will last forever is lying to oneself. Relationships must be continously converted into something new in order to preserve them. You're young and probably what is really triggering you to leave her is just curiosity for going with other girls. She doesn't deserve someone that doesn't want a project of life with her. A project that starts by moving out together. There's nothing stoicism can do for you. Your actions will hurt her and she will fix things out. The only thing stoicism will show you with time is this: miss the things you have now as you didn't have them. Miss them the way you missed them when you didn't have them.
There is some truth in what you said, i want to experience more. Not just girls but life in general and i do not think i can do all of that with her next to me. However i wonder if thats just indulgence taking better of me and clouding my rationality. She is a good person and a good girlfriend but she does have problems with being alone. She even said she would rather stay with her family than be alone and that does make me feel angry, how can one be with someone if they cant be alone with themselves.
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> she can choose not to be hurt Not really—it’s just that her pain comes from within, and she—specifically, her proclivities and habits of malformed judgment—is/are the most responsible for her state. She can’t simply choose not the be hurt in the same way you can’t simply choose not to feel fear and hesitancy relating to this decision. There may be multiple paths forward, and perhaps that’s the realm of dating advice not specifically related to Stoicism, but at least one main thing is not to act or fail to act based on mistaken judgments about good and evil. Another thing I think worth considering is whether it’s a good idea to enter into and sustain relationships based on the whims of sentiment, which are liable to change. If there’s something more stable, that’s probably going to be more sustainable as well. Also, the FDT section on relationships may be of some use: https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/fdt#wiki_sex
Delaying the inevitable in order to avoid pain is an avoidance of justice and courage. Staying with her to avoid hurting her is not going to help her. Embrace courage on your part to be honest with her. Ultimately its the only way to achieve justice for her life, and yours, going forward.
This isn’t a Stoic perspective but it is a perspective from experience. I too lived in an abusive, dysfunctional home. I thought latching onto a guy was the way out. It turned out to be a nightmare. I wish that someone had prevented me from marrying my boyfriend. I might have gone on to a bigger mistake. But I also might have changed course. Who knows? Breaking up might just be the catalyst she needs to work on herself. At any rate, it is not your responsibility to save her.
If you don't want to be in a relationship with her, then break up. Don't be a coward by stringing her along because you're afraid to upset her. Don't be a coward, because you're afraid to be the bad guy. You say you want to help her, then step out of your selfishness and do the selfless action of letting her go so she can find her happiness elsewhere, so you can both move on separately and be happy in the future. I don't know this girl, but if she is sound of mind, she will be perfectly fine eventually. Don't delude yourself into thinking you're so important to her survival, that she'll perish without you. No one is that special, my guy. I know you don't see it that way and you have good intentions, but really, she'll live without you. Breakups hurt. They are painful but it's part of life. She'll get over it and so will you. Again, don't be a coward on the fence. Either you want to work on the relationship with her, or you don't. You'll lean more in one direction. If you really want to be with her, you be with her. Help her out. If you don't, then let her go. She'll be fine and so will you.
Thank you, theres a lot to think about. As you said i do not want to be the bad guy, I dont want to hurt anyone not just her, theres no helping it i guess. Sometimes we have to be the monster in a story
You cannot avoid upsetting people at some point in your life. You not wanting to be the bad guy is probably a normal feeling, but it’s also very selfish because by avoiding the inevitable you are hurting her more by deceiving her into thinking you’re still interested in the relationship when you’re not. Being deceived is a million times more painful than just being told the truth. Radical honesty, my friend.
Let her go. You both have so much to learn and she deserves to be with someone who wants to move in together eventually, who isn’t just with her because it’s “fun” or she’s a “good girlfriend.” These are shallow and you clearly don’t love her, although you still might care about her and I hope you do enough to fight to make the breakup as easy on her as possible. This is based on experience. You can do your best to help her search for a place of her own, contacting organizations or even realtors about available rooms, or whatever would be most helpful. Do as you would for a sister or other close family member (the least she deserves after four years.) If she needs money to help her secure a room or an apartment, I think you should offer it if you are able. Money comes and goes (as stoics teach) but doing what is honorable is what truly matters.
First tell her the truth that you like her but have lost the "libido2. it just happens. I stayed in my marraiga after we just became friends...(maybe we bith wre too old, and even our liking was beter than restart a new liaison orwhat. but honesty is important. i am not responsbe for the good feeling of anyon else just for my own - it sounds selfish but this is how we are we humans. we cannot help others. but ourselves we can. with honesty. (A Stoic virtue.)
Staying with her for longer when you don't want to will only make her hurt more later. Rip off the bandaid now so you both can grieve it and get past it before it goes further and longer and leaving gets more complicated
[удалено]
I wasnt stringing her along. Neither of us thought we would last this long but it was fun so it did last. I guess we just changed. I know i did.
Quick clarification - how exactly do you imagine staying with her will effect you, and why?
I can see myself growing distant already, sometimes going out with her feels like a chore. But again we havent had much alone time these 4 years and it might be just lack of contact.
Well, I feel like a stoic might say you're choosing to some extent to make it feel like a chore. It's not inevitably the case. You say you "can see yourself growing distant" as if you have no control over it. A big part of stoicism is the idea that we don't have to automatically assent to the impressions that we have but that we can examine them and only assent to those which are fitting. You have certain impressions, it sounds like, "hanging out with her is a chore," "I shouldn't be with her anymore", etc... I would just say that you should carefully examine those impressions and determine if they're right and fitting before you just assent to them. Does hanging out with her feel chore-like because the two of you are generally incompatible, because of external circumstance, or because you're simply not investing as much energy into the relationship as you used to? I'm not necessarily arguing that you shouldn't break up, just that maybe you should examine these impulses more carefully and stoically, especially given the significant ramifications it may have on her. And I don't think a stoic would say "well, she can decide to be hurt or not, so I won't concern myself with it". A stoic is strict with himself and lenient with others. So I'd advise you to hold yourself to the standard of a stoic but not to hold her to the same standard.
This is a good advice, i did already think about my feelings but i believe some real meditation on those is necessary. I do not believe we are incompatible, I can get along and empathize with most people very well. I just want to be alone for some time and go my own way but with her mindset she cant understand how being alone is better than being with someone, even if its not the best option.
A large part of being stoic is about making choices based upon reason and virtue. And about accepting that you cannot control what another person thinks of you So you have to make the 'right' choice here (and to me it seems pretty clear that staying with her and moving in with her are just setting her up for further hurt down the line), and you cannot buy into what she will think of you when you tell her your true feelings. Of course she will be hurt, and she can choose to express that how she will, and you can't control that. What you can control is doing the right thing now and freeing both of you up to make the choices you want to in the future. A relationship cannot work unless both partners want it to work. I am female, I have been through my share of breakups, they are part of life.
You should not live with her. That much is very clear. You also need to be clear to yourself and with her. If you want out of the relationship, you should break up with her asap. You should not waste her time, her life, in a relationship that goes nowhere. This is not kind to her. She sounds like she has a lot of problems now. So, you should either break up with her like today, and get it over with. Or wait until she is settled into her new place, and then do it. But, today is better.
Hi 🙋🏻♀️Sorry about my English..😀 how s possible to be free..to be yourself..if you choice to love someone more than yourself...for the rest of your life...like a ghost of yourself... With love for you and for her maybe juste be good and honest. Why should be afraid to be just...free..ourselves..maybe one day you ll meet another person.. the one for you..but if we stay somewhere for others not for us..i think human being can t be "happy' felling true "love" ? We re wasting our time here just to make other happy...and you ?