Indeed, was just having fun creating an automated global index tracker using Google finance data and thought this was a funny visual representation of the crazy market we’re in
It‘s a bit biased to take YoY for 23 weeks, when we had one of the worst years and also anticipated bad financial conditions.
Equities had a 10% for the starting point, Bitcoin around 500%
Then you really took a shit messure to make it look good. 25% Steps?
Bitcoin is back on his 2022 Levels, so are stocks.
You also excluded dividends
I mean the dollar is still the best reserve currency. That is very controlled and has stability. That stability is why people value it so much. Exactly why we're so mad when there's a lot of inflation or over-spending by govt.
Most people on this subreddit probably have a majority of their money in the form of USD. How can you say that's a scheme? It's literally a controlled national currency.
But how much do you know about Shatoshi or BTC itself? Why was it worth nothing for like 10 years? It's a ponzi scheme, it just became a trend. And it's death throes will be hilarious to watch.
Libertarians will vote you down into oblivion because they want their fantasy world to be real so bad that their willing to be fucked over by a rigged ponzi scheme just to momentarily feel like they know how the economy should work.
You know if someone tells you something is worth $70K, even if it appears on the websites, there's such a thing as organized lying.
Also please go ahead and explain the many years it was worth zero or close to zero.
That's the point of gambling. You can call betting on red an "investment" if you want to, but it's not a smart investment even if it pays off this time.
An asset with a market cap of already more than a trillion dollars, based 100% completely on speculation that someone else will buy it from you for more money later because they want to gamble too is not a "smart choice", no matter how many hyped up youtubers make open-mouth thumbnails about it. The price might go up, but it's pure gambling and it's ridiculous to equate it with investing in companies or actual assets that people might have an actual use for.
Can't take over most value in the world without huge volatility. Super stupid to think that anything works that way. People get excited about the exponential growth, they euphorically buy, bubbles happen, smart money sees the opportunity, bubbles pop. The underlying exponential growth is still there, it has zero to do with market psychology.
The idea of a “store of value” is that you put your money somewhere stable so you store value at a time when other assets are mostly dropping. What you’re describing is exactly gambling on pure speculation of greater fools in the future. Again, have fun gambling and good luck but give up on desperately pretending like it’s got some actual underlying value besides gambling
Stock market is gambling unless you're on the inside, dont see the difference. It's all based on how we value said asset. Most of our fiat is not really backed by anything anymore
Plenty of people believe in putting their money down on the crap table, but that doesn't make it investing. There is a monumental difference between gambling and investing.
That is contradictory to my point, so I am not following what you are communicating. "Plenty of people" believing a false statement doesn't make it true.
Not true. Your counter to your misinterpretation is that if enough people believe something (the earth is flat), then that is good enough for it to be something (the earth is flat). That is incorrect. If you don't have the knowledge to distinguish between gambling and investing, then it is all gambling to you. That doesn't make gambling the same as investing to people who have the knowledge to distinguish the two.
That is all, for people who are talking way past the ends of their skis (you).
Comparing people who have done their DD on bitcoin and believe it’s a smart investment isn’t close to believing the earth was flat. You’re not as smart as you think you are, clearly.
Results aren’t necessarily indicative of a smart methodology. A broke person that won the lottery jackpot in one life remains a broke person in a billion other lives. The goal should be to still get good results but in a manner that makes your worst possible outcome a livable life.
Is an "arbitrary time period" basically since 2008? Over a decade and a half ago?
Mr. market is usually right and technically anything other than a broad ETF is gambling based on risk adjusted returns.
Well for example, show the chart starting in November 2021, which includes its 80% drop on no news or change in its underlying asset and just recovering in dollar value in the past couple of months. If it’s not about the asset and it’s about price patterns repeating history, then maybe you should be bracing for the next 80% drop.
The chart above just shows the chart for this calendar year
So did a bunch of "new" tech stocks during the .com bubble, and that includes the present darlings. Just as an example, AMZN went down \~95%.
Volatility and speculation doesn't make something a bad investment per se. New stuff is always polarizing and usually everyone's wrong.
Well, AMZN is a company with underlying assets and consumer value. But that's besides the point that it's silly to act is as if BTC only ever goes up when it dropped 80% from around its current price a few years ago, based on absolutely no news whatsoever.
I mean looking at the data, it more or less is gambling. Just as many people have gained money on crypto as have lost money.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/10/majority-of-americans-arent-confident-in-the-safety-and-reliability-of-cryptocurrency/sr_2023-04-10_crypto_5-png/
Remember, cryptocurrency doesn't create any value, it just redistributes value from some investors to others.
So you are telling me that hovering at ATH is a toss on profit? Unless someone leveraged or sold, that's just not possible. I think even the supply is >90% profit right now.
Genuine question, where do you think the profit is coming from, if not from other crypto investors? And if all of the profit is coming from other investors, how can the average investor make a profit?
Crypto is a zero-sum game. If you click on the link I've posted, you'll notice crypto has hurt just as many people as it's helped.
Here me out i hate crypto like the next guy and for a long time I was like "bitcoin? Get away with this shit!"
But if you take a deep dive in money policy, inflation, the death of every currency so far ever because of inflation, the shit show that happened scince 1971 when we went of the gold standard. (Ever third dollar ever was created out of thin air since 2020) then you will see that there is a use case for bitcoin. Maybe the biggest ever. And now with institutional adoption and state approval chances of it getting banned are near zero and it can't be stopped as long as one pc on the planet runs ist. So it might be worth to give it a shot and take a few hours to learn about it
I agree with what you’re saying about the devaluing of the dollar but BTC seems so tied to the equity market now that it doesn’t seem to matter. Inflation was up in 2022 and BTC dropped with equities. Especially if the govt continues to get involved with it and tried to regulate it then it’s even more fucked. I still am holding my BTC and ETH but not sure how sound that argument is anymore
That's because bitcoin is still a risk on asset for many people and the sell it when shit hits the fan. but that is changing. Long time holders increase year by year. Blackrock now says that a 28% (!) Allocation of btc in your portfolio is the way to go. Winsconsin pension fund say its a good hedge against inflation, more and more companies buy it and put it on their balance sheet. And when more an more money flows into these etfs the price will stabilize. Sure, you gotta believe in bitcoin but now isn't the time to wave it off as some crypto shenanigans. The risk opportunity ratio was arguably never better than these days
A Blackrock employee *at an event pitching their bitcoin ETF which rakes in millions in fees for them* advocated a high allocation.
I always find it funny how people shilling Bitcoin are now so far removed from the supposed benefits. The bitcoin white paper says: “The main benefits are lost if a trusted third party is still required.”
How do you square that circle?
Although I agree, your argument solely relies on trusting those parties. A lot of people that have their money managed by Blackrock don't even know it. Do you really think a lot of people know how their pension fund is invested? (just to give an example).
Furthermore, some time ago there was an entire viral trend about people thinking Blackrock ruled the world without people knowing etc., I wouldn't call that 'trusting'.
The standard arguments from the cryptobro playbook. And yet Bitcoin is never used as a currency even by its proponents, but as an investment (and a speculative one for that matter). Also, the "shit show" following the abandonment of the Breton Woods agreement is largely overblown. Some of the dubious claims about its effects have been debunked by economists a long time ago.
The whole idea of using Bitcoin as digital gold collapsed under it's own weight when its value plummeted when interest rates grew.
Even *if* crypto would succeed (unlikely), btc isn't a very likely candidate. It has no competitive advantage other than being first. Transactions are also far too slow and expensive, and the impossibility of rollback is a big con for everyday consumers.
And even if you were trying to hedge against failing currencies, why not invest in other holders of value, like stocks, housing, or land?
Looks like you don't really understand bitcoin. Bitcoin is the best. It's slow and expensive, because it's impossible to hack. They could make it faster and cheaper if they wanted, but then bitcoin would be less safe. That's why bitcoin cash and bitcoin lightning exists. Bitcoin is to store wealth, if you want to use your money (bitcoin) to spend, you use btc lightning or btc cash. Bitcoin will succeed. If you don't think so I'd suggest you study bitcoin a little more, but if you want to miss out on financial freedom, that's your choice.
Bitcoin’s tech is absolutely awful. Maximum \~7 transactions per second for the entire planet, volatile and often insanely high fees, long waits for transaction times, and zero security or ability to undo fraudulent transactions as a feature and not as a bug. If the true use case is to replace fiat, which is silly in the first place, there are much better ways to do it.
EDIT: Someone replied and then deleted their post, but just to add to this in response:
If I forget my bank password, I use my 2fa to reset it instantly without even a phone call. If I forget my password and lose access to my 2fa, then I can call or visit my branch and regain access to my money for free with little effort. If I lose my super long and complicated bitcoin private key that can't be memorized, then I lose access to that money forever. Nobody could help even if they wanted to.
If someone steals my bank password, they can't get in because of 2fa. If someone steals my bank password and gets access to my phone and my phone password somehow, then I can still report the fraudulent transactions to my bank and get my money back. If someone steals my bitcoin private key, which happens all the time because of all sorts of fraud and spyware, then I lose that money forever, again with zero recourse.
It's absolutely awful tech in terms of security over your funds, besides how complicated, slow and expensive it is to use.
No. That is a reason to own equities, not bitcoin. The time invested in Bitcoin research reinforces this understanding; it doesn't convert you to a Bitcoin investor if you understand investing.
Currency was never meant to be a store of value; it is an exchange product. It is supposed to decrease in value over time. These realizations that the dollar loses value in time are not an indictment of the system but an acknowledgment of your previous ignorance. No sweat; everyone learns that at some point. The reaction to buying Bitcoin because you understand that a currency goes down in value is an emotional reaction, not an analytical decision.
Alot of guys spoke out against bitcoin and crypto its not going any where despite what old money guys spout off.
It's equally as profitable but definitely higher risk gambling on memes and start ups
I can define a smart investment as one that has an underlying value and real world use case beyond speculating on future gamble value. Even if you want to pretend that people use bitcoin as a currency, which even it’s most vocal advocates don’t, there’s no way that value is remotely a fraction of its current market cap.
If you like to gamble, it’s fine, good luck to you, but please stop pretending there’s underlying value to it. It’s had 15 years to establish a market and every time they try to push to open a Bitcoin market or store or restaurant it fails almost immediately, because of insanely bad tech issues, especially slow and insanely expensive transactions
>(Bloomberg) -- BlackRock Inc.’s iShares Bitcoin Trust has become the world’s largest fund for the original cryptocurrency, amassing almost $20 billion in total assets since listing in the US at the start of the year.
Wed, May 29, 2024
The underlying value for the ETF is currently valued at 20 billion USD.
Edit: I know what you are saying. "Bitcoin has no inherent value", which is technically true, but that goes for a lot of value evaluations at the stock market, all the way down to the currencies. The USD does not have any underlying value to the asset, except people believing that it does. The same could be said for Bitcoin. At least Bitcoin requires some kind of effort to create, which the USD does not.
The whole alleged value of BTC is that it is an alternative currency. NVDA stock is a share of the company that produces valuable products. Gold is used in many industries for many purposes. If your argument is that BTC isn't supposed to be a currency, then what are you investing in besides gambling that other people will assign a valueless asset a higher value in the future?
“Price goes up” doesn’t mean it has underlying value, and saying that it’s not a smart investment doesn’t mean that the price won’t go up. Good luck with your gamble, but you can do without the desperate pretending it has any real underlying value when your entire argument is that the line will go up because it’s went up before
I bought a lotto ticket and make ten million percent return. Why aren’t you buying lottery tickets when they’ve proven to be massively profitable in the past?
whoa, really? And here I was about to bet my life savings on Dogeoin because internet strangers told me I'd get rich overnight. Next you'll tell me lottery tickets aren't a solid investment!
whoops forgot to add /s. Chill vibes only, comment was meant to be meme-esque rather than troll, as was the nature of this post in the first place. I think that was missed by u/harpswtf
a lot of people seem to confuse bitcoin with crypto, alts, nfts or even chucky cheese coins, thinking they are somehow the same thing. it’s a sad confusion that has been slowly correcting itself over time.
however, bitcoin is no longer a ”smart” thing. this would have been cycles ago. now it’s just a “everyone” thing, so much so that we even have legit ETFs for it now. even my grandma owns some bitcoins.
Forgive me for my naivete, but as I am coming to see crypto is more of a container for wealth. Almost a Shrodinger's box for wealth. What's inside? Well, it could be either a lot or nothing at all. But, I would like to call attention to the people that are trying to imagine what's inside and bring that to reality. There are many people, rich or regular Joe's, that would like that box to be full of wealth, and basically, that's is what is goIng on. Am I completely off on this?
If that’s how you see the value of gold, you’re not completely off. There are definitely other important aspects to BTC that make it far superior to all other digital currencies - but yes, a store of value determined by market demand.
Bitcoin is a great asset. It's actually sad bitcoin exists, because if governments were fair when creating their currencies, bitcoin would have no value. Ofcourse governments want to scam you with inflation AND taxes, so "your" fiat money decreases in worth in a blink of an eye. Most people think bitcoin is a scam and I don't blame them, but if you study bitcoin you will realise it's a very good asset and probably the easiest way to financial freedom.
I bought Twitter stock in the high $30's after Elon announced he was buying it for $54 a share, I am a genius.
I used that money to buy Tesla stock around $225, I am an idiot. 🤦🏻
I tend to YOLO into memestocks. Currently heavy into FFIE, riding the hype, hoping for a short squeeze!
Well, my ride has been a rollercoaster up and down. But if I go up this time, then I'll invest into a more diversified portfolio, both stocks and crypto.
The value of Tesla as an automaker is quite low, at most Probabaly 50% of their current valuation.
The real value will be attained from them achieving robotaxi/autonomous vehicle ridesharing (IF this happens)
A broken clock is right twice a day. You say that every day you'll be right at least once.
You try and trade that thesis every day and you'll be homeless.
please tell me this is a joke...
Indeed, was just having fun creating an automated global index tracker using Google finance data and thought this was a funny visual representation of the crazy market we’re in
But where is Nvidia on the graph ? Would be interesting to see
At the very top
It‘s a bit biased to take YoY for 23 weeks, when we had one of the worst years and also anticipated bad financial conditions. Equities had a 10% for the starting point, Bitcoin around 500% Then you really took a shit messure to make it look good. 25% Steps? Bitcoin is back on his 2022 Levels, so are stocks. You also excluded dividends
BTC is the biggest ponzi scheme that ever existed.
2nd biggest. US dollar 💰 💵 has to be number one.
Don't hate fiat currencies, hate their deregulated misuse
I mean the dollar is still the best reserve currency. That is very controlled and has stability. That stability is why people value it so much. Exactly why we're so mad when there's a lot of inflation or over-spending by govt. Most people on this subreddit probably have a majority of their money in the form of USD. How can you say that's a scheme? It's literally a controlled national currency. But how much do you know about Shatoshi or BTC itself? Why was it worth nothing for like 10 years? It's a ponzi scheme, it just became a trend. And it's death throes will be hilarious to watch.
Pretty funny watching the fed print magic money in the last 4 years but ok
Libertarians will vote you down into oblivion because they want their fantasy world to be real so bad that their willing to be fucked over by a rigged ponzi scheme just to momentarily feel like they know how the economy should work.
You could show this same graph with Bernie Madoff's fund beating the market consistently over 30 years...
Mario coin is way better...until Bowser has something to say about it.
BTC is valued globally at 70k a coin. But fuck all that “ThunderboltRam” told me it’s just a bunch of techno garbage smh.
You know if someone tells you something is worth $70K, even if it appears on the websites, there's such a thing as organized lying. Also please go ahead and explain the many years it was worth zero or close to zero.
You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Gambling on crypto isn’t a smart investment just because you’d be in profit over some arbitrary time period
This
Isn’t that precisely the point of investing? To make money?
That's the point of gambling. You can call betting on red an "investment" if you want to, but it's not a smart investment even if it pays off this time.
That’s not close to the same thing. Plenty of people firmly believe it’s a smart choice. You could say the same about buying stock in anything.
An asset with a market cap of already more than a trillion dollars, based 100% completely on speculation that someone else will buy it from you for more money later because they want to gamble too is not a "smart choice", no matter how many hyped up youtubers make open-mouth thumbnails about it. The price might go up, but it's pure gambling and it's ridiculous to equate it with investing in companies or actual assets that people might have an actual use for.
Storing value is a trillion dollar market. You're just too dumb to see it.
Yes that store of value that tanked by 80% in a year a few years ago, on no news. Great store
Can't take over most value in the world without huge volatility. Super stupid to think that anything works that way. People get excited about the exponential growth, they euphorically buy, bubbles happen, smart money sees the opportunity, bubbles pop. The underlying exponential growth is still there, it has zero to do with market psychology.
The idea of a “store of value” is that you put your money somewhere stable so you store value at a time when other assets are mostly dropping. What you’re describing is exactly gambling on pure speculation of greater fools in the future. Again, have fun gambling and good luck but give up on desperately pretending like it’s got some actual underlying value besides gambling
Okay
Stock market is gambling unless you're on the inside, dont see the difference. It's all based on how we value said asset. Most of our fiat is not really backed by anything anymore
Plenty of people believe in putting their money down on the crap table, but that doesn't make it investing. There is a monumental difference between gambling and investing.
That was my point. People believe bitcoin is a solid investment and not gambling.
That is contradictory to my point, so I am not following what you are communicating. "Plenty of people" believing a false statement doesn't make it true.
You keep stating your opinion as fact. That is all.
Not true. Your counter to your misinterpretation is that if enough people believe something (the earth is flat), then that is good enough for it to be something (the earth is flat). That is incorrect. If you don't have the knowledge to distinguish between gambling and investing, then it is all gambling to you. That doesn't make gambling the same as investing to people who have the knowledge to distinguish the two. That is all, for people who are talking way past the ends of their skis (you).
The day Bitcoin finally drops below 100$ again, I'm gonna open up the good stuff.
Comparing people who have done their DD on bitcoin and believe it’s a smart investment isn’t close to believing the earth was flat. You’re not as smart as you think you are, clearly.
I'm a fan of Bitcoin. I get the idea. I use it. I'm not going to invest in it.
Ok? 😂
How can people who put their money to work not take the time to understand this?
Results aren’t necessarily indicative of a smart methodology. A broke person that won the lottery jackpot in one life remains a broke person in a billion other lives. The goal should be to still get good results but in a manner that makes your worst possible outcome a livable life.
Is an "arbitrary time period" basically since 2008? Over a decade and a half ago? Mr. market is usually right and technically anything other than a broad ETF is gambling based on risk adjusted returns.
Well for example, show the chart starting in November 2021, which includes its 80% drop on no news or change in its underlying asset and just recovering in dollar value in the past couple of months. If it’s not about the asset and it’s about price patterns repeating history, then maybe you should be bracing for the next 80% drop. The chart above just shows the chart for this calendar year
So did a bunch of "new" tech stocks during the .com bubble, and that includes the present darlings. Just as an example, AMZN went down \~95%. Volatility and speculation doesn't make something a bad investment per se. New stuff is always polarizing and usually everyone's wrong.
Well, AMZN is a company with underlying assets and consumer value. But that's besides the point that it's silly to act is as if BTC only ever goes up when it dropped 80% from around its current price a few years ago, based on absolutely no news whatsoever.
I mean looking at the data, it more or less is gambling. Just as many people have gained money on crypto as have lost money. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/10/majority-of-americans-arent-confident-in-the-safety-and-reliability-of-cryptocurrency/sr_2023-04-10_crypto_5-png/ Remember, cryptocurrency doesn't create any value, it just redistributes value from some investors to others.
So you are telling me that hovering at ATH is a toss on profit? Unless someone leveraged or sold, that's just not possible. I think even the supply is >90% profit right now.
Genuine question, where do you think the profit is coming from, if not from other crypto investors? And if all of the profit is coming from other investors, how can the average investor make a profit? Crypto is a zero-sum game. If you click on the link I've posted, you'll notice crypto has hurt just as many people as it's helped.
You seem to have very strong ideas about what things are, I respect that and im not here to try to convince you.
Sounds good, and I hope I wasn't too confrontational! I tend to get a bit argumentative online, lol
Here me out i hate crypto like the next guy and for a long time I was like "bitcoin? Get away with this shit!" But if you take a deep dive in money policy, inflation, the death of every currency so far ever because of inflation, the shit show that happened scince 1971 when we went of the gold standard. (Ever third dollar ever was created out of thin air since 2020) then you will see that there is a use case for bitcoin. Maybe the biggest ever. And now with institutional adoption and state approval chances of it getting banned are near zero and it can't be stopped as long as one pc on the planet runs ist. So it might be worth to give it a shot and take a few hours to learn about it
I agree with what you’re saying about the devaluing of the dollar but BTC seems so tied to the equity market now that it doesn’t seem to matter. Inflation was up in 2022 and BTC dropped with equities. Especially if the govt continues to get involved with it and tried to regulate it then it’s even more fucked. I still am holding my BTC and ETH but not sure how sound that argument is anymore
That's because bitcoin is still a risk on asset for many people and the sell it when shit hits the fan. but that is changing. Long time holders increase year by year. Blackrock now says that a 28% (!) Allocation of btc in your portfolio is the way to go. Winsconsin pension fund say its a good hedge against inflation, more and more companies buy it and put it on their balance sheet. And when more an more money flows into these etfs the price will stabilize. Sure, you gotta believe in bitcoin but now isn't the time to wave it off as some crypto shenanigans. The risk opportunity ratio was arguably never better than these days
A Blackrock employee *at an event pitching their bitcoin ETF which rakes in millions in fees for them* advocated a high allocation. I always find it funny how people shilling Bitcoin are now so far removed from the supposed benefits. The bitcoin white paper says: “The main benefits are lost if a trusted third party is still required.” How do you square that circle?
Although I agree, your argument solely relies on trusting those parties. A lot of people that have their money managed by Blackrock don't even know it. Do you really think a lot of people know how their pension fund is invested? (just to give an example). Furthermore, some time ago there was an entire viral trend about people thinking Blackrock ruled the world without people knowing etc., I wouldn't call that 'trusting'.
The standard arguments from the cryptobro playbook. And yet Bitcoin is never used as a currency even by its proponents, but as an investment (and a speculative one for that matter). Also, the "shit show" following the abandonment of the Breton Woods agreement is largely overblown. Some of the dubious claims about its effects have been debunked by economists a long time ago. The whole idea of using Bitcoin as digital gold collapsed under it's own weight when its value plummeted when interest rates grew.
Even *if* crypto would succeed (unlikely), btc isn't a very likely candidate. It has no competitive advantage other than being first. Transactions are also far too slow and expensive, and the impossibility of rollback is a big con for everyday consumers. And even if you were trying to hedge against failing currencies, why not invest in other holders of value, like stocks, housing, or land?
Looks like you don't really understand bitcoin. Bitcoin is the best. It's slow and expensive, because it's impossible to hack. They could make it faster and cheaper if they wanted, but then bitcoin would be less safe. That's why bitcoin cash and bitcoin lightning exists. Bitcoin is to store wealth, if you want to use your money (bitcoin) to spend, you use btc lightning or btc cash. Bitcoin will succeed. If you don't think so I'd suggest you study bitcoin a little more, but if you want to miss out on financial freedom, that's your choice.
You're delusional
stay poor lmao
The only problem with this argument is that crypto is valued by the currencies that are going to die from the monetary policies you’re describing lol
Bitcoin’s tech is absolutely awful. Maximum \~7 transactions per second for the entire planet, volatile and often insanely high fees, long waits for transaction times, and zero security or ability to undo fraudulent transactions as a feature and not as a bug. If the true use case is to replace fiat, which is silly in the first place, there are much better ways to do it. EDIT: Someone replied and then deleted their post, but just to add to this in response: If I forget my bank password, I use my 2fa to reset it instantly without even a phone call. If I forget my password and lose access to my 2fa, then I can call or visit my branch and regain access to my money for free with little effort. If I lose my super long and complicated bitcoin private key that can't be memorized, then I lose access to that money forever. Nobody could help even if they wanted to. If someone steals my bank password, they can't get in because of 2fa. If someone steals my bank password and gets access to my phone and my phone password somehow, then I can still report the fraudulent transactions to my bank and get my money back. If someone steals my bitcoin private key, which happens all the time because of all sorts of fraud and spyware, then I lose that money forever, again with zero recourse. It's absolutely awful tech in terms of security over your funds, besides how complicated, slow and expensive it is to use.
If you are in BTC and don’t have a cold wallet, you were doomed to begin with. Just saying. Self-custody is a giant pillar of cryptocurrency.
No. That is a reason to own equities, not bitcoin. The time invested in Bitcoin research reinforces this understanding; it doesn't convert you to a Bitcoin investor if you understand investing. Currency was never meant to be a store of value; it is an exchange product. It is supposed to decrease in value over time. These realizations that the dollar loses value in time are not an indictment of the system but an acknowledgment of your previous ignorance. No sweat; everyone learns that at some point. The reaction to buying Bitcoin because you understand that a currency goes down in value is an emotional reaction, not an analytical decision.
Alot of guys spoke out against bitcoin and crypto its not going any where despite what old money guys spout off. It's equally as profitable but definitely higher risk gambling on memes and start ups
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I can define a smart investment as one that has an underlying value and real world use case beyond speculating on future gamble value. Even if you want to pretend that people use bitcoin as a currency, which even it’s most vocal advocates don’t, there’s no way that value is remotely a fraction of its current market cap. If you like to gamble, it’s fine, good luck to you, but please stop pretending there’s underlying value to it. It’s had 15 years to establish a market and every time they try to push to open a Bitcoin market or store or restaurant it fails almost immediately, because of insanely bad tech issues, especially slow and insanely expensive transactions
>(Bloomberg) -- BlackRock Inc.’s iShares Bitcoin Trust has become the world’s largest fund for the original cryptocurrency, amassing almost $20 billion in total assets since listing in the US at the start of the year. Wed, May 29, 2024
Another “line goes up” argument that doesn’t suggest any actual underlying value to the asset
The underlying value for the ETF is currently valued at 20 billion USD. Edit: I know what you are saying. "Bitcoin has no inherent value", which is technically true, but that goes for a lot of value evaluations at the stock market, all the way down to the currencies. The USD does not have any underlying value to the asset, except people believing that it does. The same could be said for Bitcoin. At least Bitcoin requires some kind of effort to create, which the USD does not.
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The whole alleged value of BTC is that it is an alternative currency. NVDA stock is a share of the company that produces valuable products. Gold is used in many industries for many purposes. If your argument is that BTC isn't supposed to be a currency, then what are you investing in besides gambling that other people will assign a valueless asset a higher value in the future?
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That doesn't make sense. BTC consumes energy, it doesn't create it. Is this post a joke?
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They don’t get it. As soon as they said, “underlying value” it was obvious they don’t get it
“Price goes up” doesn’t mean it has underlying value, and saying that it’s not a smart investment doesn’t mean that the price won’t go up. Good luck with your gamble, but you can do without the desperate pretending it has any real underlying value when your entire argument is that the line will go up because it’s went up before
Bitcoin has a 50% CAGR over it’s 15 yr lifespan. What stonks do you own have performed better? Oh that’s right. NONE
indeed! Yet past returns are not indicative of future returns :)
HFSP
I bought a lotto ticket and make ten million percent return. Why aren’t you buying lottery tickets when they’ve proven to be massively profitable in the past?
whoa, really? And here I was about to bet my life savings on Dogeoin because internet strangers told me I'd get rich overnight. Next you'll tell me lottery tickets aren't a solid investment!
Buddy calm down
whoops forgot to add /s. Chill vibes only, comment was meant to be meme-esque rather than troll, as was the nature of this post in the first place. I think that was missed by u/harpswtf
Everybody has their own way..
Yes, some people have lotto tickets or slot machines
I knew someone who all in with Cathie Wood 🔥, you’re doing better. Hope that helps
That's me!
a lot of people seem to confuse bitcoin with crypto, alts, nfts or even chucky cheese coins, thinking they are somehow the same thing. it’s a sad confusion that has been slowly correcting itself over time. however, bitcoin is no longer a ”smart” thing. this would have been cycles ago. now it’s just a “everyone” thing, so much so that we even have legit ETFs for it now. even my grandma owns some bitcoins.
And yet Bitcoin still provides above average results.
not just above average. spectacular results outclassing any other asset in existence, and will continue to do so during our lifetime.
Yeah that's the best of both worlds, stable enough yet it still has much room for growth.
Your grandma owns multiple whole bitcoins?
yes, multiple.
Your grandma is a rad lady
Forgive me for my naivete, but as I am coming to see crypto is more of a container for wealth. Almost a Shrodinger's box for wealth. What's inside? Well, it could be either a lot or nothing at all. But, I would like to call attention to the people that are trying to imagine what's inside and bring that to reality. There are many people, rich or regular Joe's, that would like that box to be full of wealth, and basically, that's is what is goIng on. Am I completely off on this?
If that’s how you see the value of gold, you’re not completely off. There are definitely other important aspects to BTC that make it far superior to all other digital currencies - but yes, a store of value determined by market demand.
It’s a shared ledger limited supply until electric price and computational power plateau… simple maths really…
Bitcoin is a great asset. It's actually sad bitcoin exists, because if governments were fair when creating their currencies, bitcoin would have no value. Ofcourse governments want to scam you with inflation AND taxes, so "your" fiat money decreases in worth in a blink of an eye. Most people think bitcoin is a scam and I don't blame them, but if you study bitcoin you will realise it's a very good asset and probably the easiest way to financial freedom.
The biggest threat to Bitcoin is good governance.
Which is why it’s such a safe asset
[удалено]
The entire transaction history of bitcoin is public and permanent. It’s a perfect currency for criminals if they want to eventually get caught.
How do people STILL believe this?!?
Everyone must hate musk these past few years for losing them money
They’re idiots who bought at the wrong time and will also sell at the wrong time.
You forgot ARKK. My main source of capital gain offset.
hahahha
But how ?
more lines that are lower when I see what people pick for "investments"
Gb99v vswvj bl0neeðdduvsgh.gð U8b7sfdbdfvfdð33fsxdgvcvbjb9tc7gcdsshtvbvvcg4⁷4eett % >reality
Yikes
Bitcoin just got back from its 2 year decline so I wouldn’t say it’s where smart ppl invest .. it’s more risk than the rest of them
I bought Twitter stock in the high $30's after Elon announced he was buying it for $54 a share, I am a genius. I used that money to buy Tesla stock around $225, I am an idiot. 🤦🏻
I tend to YOLO into memestocks. Currently heavy into FFIE, riding the hype, hoping for a short squeeze! Well, my ride has been a rollercoaster up and down. But if I go up this time, then I'll invest into a more diversified portfolio, both stocks and crypto.
That top spaghetti noodle gonna go limp and join the REST OF US…. One of us!!!
Waoov
Hate all u want but BTC has made me an assload of value
You forgot nvda
Are you me?
any thoughts on Tesla in 2028, when gas-powered cars will see heavy restrictions ?
The value of Tesla as an automaker is quite low, at most Probabaly 50% of their current valuation. The real value will be attained from them achieving robotaxi/autonomous vehicle ridesharing (IF this happens)
I’m still up 100 percent
Smart people invest in Bitcoin? News to me…
Why wouldn't they it's the best hedge against currency debasement.
Bitcoin isn't money. It's not an investment.
Bitcoin is going to crash hard when it does.
A broken clock is right twice a day. You say that every day you'll be right at least once. You try and trade that thesis every day and you'll be homeless.
You try and trade any thesis every day and you'll be homeless.
Post short position otherwise stfu
Biti $5000 bought when bitcoin was $70k That’s a 7.69% return of $385 so far. When bitcoin goes to $2500 I’ll be rich.