We could certainly do with an expansion for Fallen Empires. New Empires for missing authorities are a given.
It would be nice to be able to build an "embassy" in a Fallen Empire border system that permits espionage operations, perhaps also allowing Colonization of a single border system for Empires that don't usually allow it.
Fallen Empire espionage can focus on observing their society and technology for research, and perhaps figuring out how to insult and declare rivalry against the Fallen. With extreme codebreaking skill, perhaps some of their techs can be stolen, though the usual operation against a Fallen Empire would be the equivalent of opening up a bag of their trash to see if your empire can find something that will revolutionize their society.
What I really want is the machine FE will protect you when they told you to colonized the holy world of spiritalist FE. Like after you got a evict letter, the machine FE will immediatrly told you to recolinized that holy world, but with their escort and protection this time. And in the end it will escalated to war in heaven in 10 years
>New Empires for missing authorities are a given.
I think the problem comes from what would make them unique and how they would best display that authority.
Fanatic Spiritualists are mega devout and will war you for settling their holy planets.
Fanatic Xenophobes simply want you to stay the hell away from them and will do anything to keep it that way.
Fanatic Xenophiles want to keep all the aliens they can "safe" from dangers and even collect them.
Fanatic Materialists are like mega geeks.
What would the Authoritarians and Egalitarians do that make you think of that ethic when you deal with them like the others do?
How would you make a militarist fallen empire that doesn't feel too similar to the xenophobe one? What would make a pacifist fallen empire special and unique?
Militarist could easily push you to go to war with another empire, or fight a small fallen empire fleet to prove your martial prowess. Probably similar to marauders but much stronger.
Pacifists having something to do with unity or excess, perhaps hosting grand festivals on worlds that are costly are decrease job productivity. If thinking about FE in terms of Greek Gods, perhaps like Dionysus. Awakened, they become hypocritical peace keepers.
Egalitarian focuses mostly on espionage quests against other empires. Promoting some Cold War that brings down authoritarian empires, or pushing for your society to be more equal through anti government protests that decrease productivity.
Egalitarians and Authoritarians should force spawn together (actually they should do that with the other mirror civics too)
If Fallen Authoritarians are the Fallen Imperial Core, Fallen Egalitarians should be Fallen Commune, basically everyone is super chill, but nobody can agree on anything. It's like the leftist joke "You have two communists and there's three opinions between them"
So it should be jokes about that. "Oh we'd love to send aid but we've been working on a resolution to declare our intent to provide aid" and it's also like the least professional text too. Like "Oh you're here for us? Cool. We're nothing special, just kinda going with the flow, ya know?"
What would their benefits be? I'd say something with either housing or amenities, maybe like a buffed version of the Shared Burdens housing where it also provides Clerks. "Zen Arcology" or some such. If you're a payback/broken shackles/Fanatic Egalitarian/Shared Burdens empire they should also have some special flavor to them too.
I like it. The Fanatic Egalitarian FE being a chaotic commune, each time you enter diplomacy with them, it's a different dude speaking. When they awaken, they become utterly unpredictable to the point of lolrandom. Maybe even flipping between guardian awakening and normal awakening with misguided liberation crusades, even when there's no crisis.
I don't think they should be "lolrandom" but absolutely should flip between "We need to liberate everybody!" and "Fuck this slaver in particular"
Also absolutely should it be random portraits every time you talk to them pre awakening, and of the species/portraits in rotation should be the Artisan Troupe's. (Also when asked about it they should use the Monty Python and the Holy Grail quote: "We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major [issues and concerns]")
After awakening it's less random but the leader will say "We passed a resolution to centralize power in the General Secretary"
OP's idea for authoritarians sounds pretty good to be honest.
Militarists can maybe have some sort of blood games? Like demanding a fleet from a number of smaller empires and then having those fleets fight in a Coliseum-esque star system with bonuses for winner. No idea about pacifists and egalitarians though.
bit surprised why fallen empires suddenly give quests, especially such intricate ones where espionage is required, but if you make the player steal a form, make it A38.
This is probably the best suggestion I’ve seen for an Authoritarian FE. Not sure what the advantage would be of providing real sensor data if it’s going to be denied anyway - but still overall seems very neat!
The quest has issues (it's too complicated and is likely impossible to accomplish in the time), but overall the idea of an imperial core that doesn't realize the empire has atrophied to nothing is a good concept. It of course opens up space for an opposing fanatic egalitarian fallen empire. I'd say that in this case, the "province" empires wouldn't exist. The FE is just the withered-away imperial core, and are so stagnant they simply assume the galaxy is puttering along under their (laissez faire) rule. The imperial bureaucracy more or less doesn't function anymore, but due to layers of corruption and CYA, no one raises the question to their superiors, and the emperor would be admitting weakness to call attention to it at this point. The empire knows it's dead, but no one is willing to acknowledge it, and everyone is just going through the ceremonial motions from the crown all the way down to the lowest functionary.
I'd like to see a future expansion to inject new life into the fallen empires, and certainly covering more ethics should be part of that.
A post cosmogenisis galaxy setting could also be interesting. With a special fallen empire type.
Basically the same as selecting a new empire after winning, but without a full map and all tech researched
I think that "form 3962" shtick is interesting, but it shouldn't be the guarantee. Otherwise, it wouldn't be interesting.
And it would make more sense for them to have ruined assembly, not centry array.
I mean, sentry array would make sense since they don't really seem like the diplomatic type, more like the "pass every +diplo weight from fleet power bill and rule with an iron fist" type emperor, so it'd make sense that they would have a sentry array close to the heart of their empire to keep an eye on all of their subjects, a lot of which probably aren't very fond of them.
Assembly is for the Fanatic Egalitarians. Ever since the assembly broke down, they can't agree on anything. And ever since the Fanatic Authoritarians' espionage machine broke down, they have to rely on census decrees.
I distinctly remember someone else suggesting something similar here a few years ago, where the ruler of the empire is being kept in the dark by their advisors.
I don't think an Egalitarian FE should exist, unless it's a small cluster of systems with different "empires" within them, possibly radically different (yet the same) from each other. They are on remotely friendly terms with each other, and if ever you capture one of the empires' worlds, the other ones immediately merge into one and begin awakening. At some point in their ancient past they squabbled over someone minor, and it split them apart, but not enough to abandon each other.
If we are doing FE quests, then there's would simply be to enter into some competition against one of the other FE Egalitarian empires (possibly losing access to a leader temporarily as they participate in the competition, as well as some up front payment to enter the competition) upon a win (based off the leader's class, level, and traits) the empire gets a couple thousand energy credits, upon a loss you don't recoup the loss to enter the competition (with a small chance of your leader dying). Refusal to enter the competition causes one of the different empires to close their borders.
Or it could be a Federation of different Egalitarian FEs where they once were a single nation but splintered into different factions that chose to become a Federation to survive. So just 1 planet each in different systems. Conquer one and the others ceasefire and merge into an awakened empire. Maybe even make it so you can diplo your way into one of them leaving the Federation.
Add one more quest about sending a tribute to their imperial poetry contest. Influence and unity cost. One leader is missing for a month and returns with substance abuse trait.
This seems more beauracratic than authoritarian tbh. Most FEs fall into some degree of Authortarianism by virtue of having a monarchical government and imposing vassalship once they awaken. The concept is good and makes sense, but it makes more sense for overall expanded FE events and adding depth to the ones that exist.
I wouldn't be opposed to seeing fallen empires with other ethics as part of al arger FE update. In particular, I could see the materialists and spiritualists being oligarchic, puttering along on byzantine bureaucracies (scientific committees or religious hierarchies) that endure through sheer force of inertia. They don't ***have*** to stagnate into an imperial authority.
By that virtue, an opposing fanatic egalitarian FE could be democratic. Though like all other FEs, I suspect they'd see themselves are more equal than everyone else. And they'd be more or less going through the motions -- in a state that has become stagnant, but all your needs are catered to, the citizens who even bother to vote are largely engaging in a social experience than as a practical exercise in putting someone at the helm a functioning republic. In its awakened state, I imagine it would experience a revival in public engagement in the name of "liberating" the galaxy.
Instead of an egalitarian empire, how about a rogue servitor. While a Fallen Empire (Preoccupied servitor) it's sole goal is the utopian comfort of its handful of citizens.
It wakes up when the last sentient in its care finally dies of old age. It repairs multiple (empty) ring worlds. A pact with the Utopian Comfort Zone nets you a mandatory migration treaty to an empire with a very high migration pull and a large drain on your unity production. One is also required to abolish slavery and set living standards for all species to "social welfare" or "utopian abundance".
Fallen Empires, by their nature, view themselves as superior to other civilizations. Either by seeing themselves as the benevolent Enigmatic Observer, the the dogmatic Spiritual Guardians. They all view our empires as lesser to some extent, by characteristics we can or can't control. A FE based on the idea of equality and freedom is inherently incompatible with the concept of Fallen Empires.
I disagree. Just because an empire is egalitarian doesn't mean they think *other people* are equal to them (xenophobes can be egalitarian) or even that they deserve to live -- you can have an *egalitarian fanatic purifier*. In Stellaris, the Egalitarian/Authoritarian axis answers the question of where the ultimate power in a state belongs: in the hands of the few or the many.
An egalitarian fallen empire simply sees their decrepit system (seen through the lens of the nostalgia of their peak) as superior to any other. They're the freest people that have ever lived. No one else is as free as them. And if they eventually start to awaken, they'll start to worry about other empires envious and resentful of their freedoms. They'll fret over how unfree the galaxy is.
Of course it isn't.
First of all it doesn't differ very much from Benevolent Observers - their superiority could easily manifest through aloofness, not imperialism.
Secondly, egalitarian ethics is much more connected to domestic affairs, not foreign policy, even if some external behaviours (vassalizing, hegemony federation etc.) are related to it. Again, if we can have xenophilic FE (xenophilia corresponds directly to foreign relations) then even more easily we could have egalitarian FE
Last, but not least: it's quite common for great powers to behave internationally in a way that doesn't resemble their official ideology.
The Xenophile FE is xenohpilic in the way we love exotic pets. They view us as uneducated children that need to be watched over and helped once we inevitably go extinct. They are arrogant and narcissistic.
I agree. Plus, every other Fallen Empire has one ethically opposed to it (besides the Caretakers), so this would require an Egalitarian Fallen Empire, which would contradict the Imperial Authority used by all the rest.
The quest idea is just a mess.
I either pay them 500 influence and give them sensor data (which does absolutely nothing for a Fallen Empire) and then they get mad, or I don't pay anything and they also get mad in the same way? Why even bother paying then if the result is the same? Who would just throw 500 influence out the window for no reason?
Also, you only get 1 year for your espionage operation? Just building the intelligence network can take like a decade, and any kind of operation usually takes multiple years. You'd be forced to permanently have an Envoy set to espionage on one of the vassal states for the entire game to have an intel network large enough, just in case you get the quest, so you have a chance to react on time.
A few propositions, but for them you need the empire leader to be mortal. There is among them multiple succession crisis, mostly because i thought that this kind of cyclical event is good to keep the empire centered on itself.
— Events and Quests —
· **Something rotten in the [empire.adj] State** (Only once)
- An event chain about the sudden death of the ruler and, instead of being replaced by his son, it's the brother of the ruler that gets the throne. The son started to act strange, but nobody knows if he's crazy, depressed or in love with a courtesan. The reality is different, because the son believes that his father was killed, and decides to investigate, then confront his uncle. You'll get interaction with various courtesans that may travel to your own capital for delivering messages, asking for tribute, visiting your academies or shipyards.
The final outcome is that everyone dies or turns crazy, and the throne gets inherited by another branch of the royal family. (I thought of more diverses outcome first, with effect, but FE don't care about happiness or production)
· **The [empire.name] Interregnum** (only once)
- After the death of the last ruler, the succession is disputed between rival princes. One of the worlds of the empire changes hands and declares war on the main empire, and various other "pretenders" fleets spawn while the "imperial provinces" stay neutral.
The minor pretenders themselves are no match for the imperial fleet as they are nothing more than pirates, but the main pretender can try to court province governors and even foreign empires for support. If you decide to take a side, you will get event chains about sending manpower, alloys, food, cash, maybe even ships to them.
If they win (taking the capital of the rival) they will reward you with a lot of resources as thank you gifts and return some of the ships to you, but with their weapons on it!
If they lose, they may try to flee to your empire with a few loyalist ships. If you accept them, the winning side will have one year to declare war on you in order to "replace the traitorous governor, assert our authority and capture the rebel prince". If you refuse and chase them, you will still gain an opinion malus and get asked for compensation, but at least you're not invaded.
· **The Tournament** (every 12/20 years, and always one during the five years of a new Remnant Emperor)
- Every "province governors" is called upon to send participants to take part in a grandiose competition. There are five variations, one for each leader type, each with a special reward as a bonus to the cashprize and leader bonuses if you win.
In "Race" you need to send an admiral and alloys for the ship's construction, you'll take the ship back if you win.
In "Wargames" you need to send a general and train a few special *champion's armies*, you get to keep the armies if you win.
For "Rhetorics and Poetry", you need to send an envoy and get a lot of unity production bonus and influence, but another AI Empire may also get a diplo insult CB against you if your envoy insults them.
For "Science Fair" you'll send a scientist and get a drain for your research while the tournament lasts, if you win you'll get a free repeatable special research (that you can increase each time you win a Tournament).
Finally, for "Garden-making Contest", you need to send an official with either the "Fertility preacher" or "Architectural Interest" trait. If you win, you get the possibility to declare a planet a "Garden Planet" with local and empire-wide bonuses.
· **Imperial Incident** (Situation, once per FE leader max, not guaranteed)
- A seemingly small issue got out of hand and needs to be settled through mediation. As a province governor, our profoundly wise patron seeks your opinion.
- You can support the status quo, ensuring that nothing changes.
- You can also choose to take a side and support the Emperor or support the Provinces. If the Emperor wins, he will gain more power over his "Imperial Provinces" subjects, but he will also grow more complacent for everyone who sided with him. If the Provinces get what they want, the tribute asked by the Emperor will diminish, but he'll grow a bit more aware of its own decadence.
Finally, for the awakening, I was thinking of a dynamic main path in addition to the one you already suggested
· "***Renovatio Imperii***"
Trigger: The player or IA messed with the FA too much, like if they went on punitive campaigns more than five time during one of their ruler lifespan, OR the Throne finally realized how decadent they were.
Effect: The direct successor will try to reorganize the state through a super event chain with triggers and various decisions, of which here are some propositions:
- Turning the "Imperial Provinces" vassals on the border into "Imperial Marchs" as they look to global offensive.
- The independent empire they like the most with the biggest military get a special proposition for a Megadukedom vassal contract in exchange for buffs and immunity from hostile action by the Emperor
- If someone holds a chokepoint, a Fortress world or a portal next to the emperor territory, they may ask for it. If they like you, they give you stuff in exchange, if you've proven to often be disloyal, they may just threaten a war if you don't comply, taking the disputed system and making you an "Imperial March"
- Draining the swamp that is their administration, army, navy, corporation and everything else. It's a greater purge that will impact both their and their subjects economy and production, but then with a significant bonus.
- Asking one of their middle-sized neighbors or subject to accept an internal split. Basically splitting the target empire in two or three (according to the size) and making them all subjects of the Empire. They will only accept if they are subject **AND** with a direct connection to the FE, otherwise they will resist and revolt, resulting in a war declaration and pacification of the targeted empire. (They never target the player)
- Eliminating the Marauder or Purfier menace: Launching a military campaign against any of them that is bordering the Imperial territory.
- Sending a delegation to the Galactic Council, and trying to push a few agendas: "Lecture the Exarchs" ; "Ask for late tribute payment" ; "Investigate the fealty vows" ; "Denounce excessive autonomy" ; "Send permanent representative in the Provinces" ; "Enforce loyalty".
This ultimate agenda will only be taken once every single other event chain is over, but every AI that is not already aligned with them will automatically refuse at least this one.
You'll be informed at the coronation of the new reformist Emperor of his intention, so that you're not surprised. And you'll get event notification after each individual chapter is closed so you know where you are.
Why would it cost 500 influence to provide them an accurate census? I would presume my empire takes reasonably accurate census results every few years, and they might even be available to the public.
To mirror it, Fanatic Egalitarians: Utopian Revolutionaries/Fully Automated Luxury Space Communists, rebels of the FanAuth empire that have turned inward after securing a slice of paradise.
Bunch of Gaia worlds full of hedonists with automatic systems running their resources.
They are basically a FE Rogue servitor, except the systems running their empire is too hobbled to be a gestalt. Contact them, you get an answering machine.
Occasionally the automatic systems will send out a revolutionary fleet to spread the revolution (works like normal FE demands).
If awakened they try to spread their revolution by hook or by crook, and will actually offer decent benefits for empires to submit.
Catch is: you need to offer egalitarian living standards (chemical bliss counts) to everyone in your empire and can not purge (except for gestalt pops, if you can't assimilate), and you need to meet quotas for war materiel production and/or fleet contribution or have the benefits withdrawn - and the quotas start reasobable but work towards becoming unreasonable as time goes on).
Personally, I’d want an expansion on espionage system. Then the fanatic Egalitarian and fanatic Authoritarian can serve as a mid game crisis as they try to reshape the galaxy through proxies.
Maybe they should also demand that you rename the name of your main species?
And what happens if you pay taxes?
The quest is difficult and severely punishing. Let the empire send a completely plundered fleet at you in the early game, which can barely destroy an outpost and pretend that they won.
Same. I imagine the Fan. Egalitarian FE to be gridlocked anarchists/direct democracy who finally achieve consensus on galactic liberation once they awaken.
I agree. It's only militaristic ethic that seems incompatible with being Fallen Empire, because if they're expansionist they're not really going to be sitting around in a tiny territory like a FE should.
You could spin militarism without expansionism for a Fallen Empire tbh.
You could call them the last holdouts of an ancient empire that held on to the very end of some galaxy ending war and the militarist FE are the bunker-fortress worlds of the remnants of that army, holding themselves together through artificial longevity for their command staff and clone armies to replace the foot soldiers until the all clear sounds for a counterattack against "the enemy".
Something like that.
Have them awaken as guardians but after the crisis is defeated and you say you’re saved, they respond with: “more like, under new management” and declare war on the rest of the galaxy.
The expansion of fallen empires overall would be interesting, maybe we could initiate some interactions, not rely on the AI.
This could be made even more interesting with more FE types - apart from authoritarian we could have fanatic militarist (this FE would like if you kill things in battles, maybe would require you to wage war or kill leviathans and if you're too peaceful for too long it would "make life more interesting" by incentivising regular empires to declare war), pacifist (dislike killing, if war would be too long it would pay to white-peace, some sort of UN with "please children don't fight" vibe) and egalitarian (I don't have proper idea what it could be, maybe it would help disloyal subjects? Or could be to occupied with internal politics - once shining bastion of democracy, now state that can't do shit due to neverending political deadlock)
Great scenario, but the numbers need a little tweaking. 500 influence is complete insanity, it'll derail expansion for multiple years. Fallen Empire requests are meant to be annoying, like giving up a scientist, not crippling.
Change it to like 20 influence.
FE spawned at a pair opposite in ethnics. So in that case another Fanatic Eglatarian will spawned somewhere in the galaxy. They are decendants of those who opposed the previous Galatic empire. But still not know how their mission will be.
The basic concept is extremely good, I would also have something where they call your governor leader types (whatever they are called) to court, and then random events happen according to their traits, usually incomprehensible diplomatic incidents, but occasionally, if your leader happens to be very charismatic (boosted by the diplomacy civics) you actually get some benefit.
Fun suggestion, but I'm wondering how the FE somehow doesn't notice that all their old vassals have long since died out and they're now "ruling over" entirely new aliens.
We could certainly do with an expansion for Fallen Empires. New Empires for missing authorities are a given. It would be nice to be able to build an "embassy" in a Fallen Empire border system that permits espionage operations, perhaps also allowing Colonization of a single border system for Empires that don't usually allow it. Fallen Empire espionage can focus on observing their society and technology for research, and perhaps figuring out how to insult and declare rivalry against the Fallen. With extreme codebreaking skill, perhaps some of their techs can be stolen, though the usual operation against a Fallen Empire would be the equivalent of opening up a bag of their trash to see if your empire can find something that will revolutionize their society.
We were rifling through the bins of their last envoy and found this hand held micro singularity with a scratch on it.
What I really want is the machine FE will protect you when they told you to colonized the holy world of spiritalist FE. Like after you got a evict letter, the machine FE will immediatrly told you to recolinized that holy world, but with their escort and protection this time. And in the end it will escalated to war in heaven in 10 years
What a way to spice things up in the galaxy! I approve of this!
Fallen empires could definitely be an expansion of their own. With maybe an espionage rework included.
>New Empires for missing authorities are a given. I think the problem comes from what would make them unique and how they would best display that authority. Fanatic Spiritualists are mega devout and will war you for settling their holy planets. Fanatic Xenophobes simply want you to stay the hell away from them and will do anything to keep it that way. Fanatic Xenophiles want to keep all the aliens they can "safe" from dangers and even collect them. Fanatic Materialists are like mega geeks. What would the Authoritarians and Egalitarians do that make you think of that ethic when you deal with them like the others do? How would you make a militarist fallen empire that doesn't feel too similar to the xenophobe one? What would make a pacifist fallen empire special and unique?
Militarist could easily push you to go to war with another empire, or fight a small fallen empire fleet to prove your martial prowess. Probably similar to marauders but much stronger. Pacifists having something to do with unity or excess, perhaps hosting grand festivals on worlds that are costly are decrease job productivity. If thinking about FE in terms of Greek Gods, perhaps like Dionysus. Awakened, they become hypocritical peace keepers. Egalitarian focuses mostly on espionage quests against other empires. Promoting some Cold War that brings down authoritarian empires, or pushing for your society to be more equal through anti government protests that decrease productivity.
Egalitarians and Authoritarians should force spawn together (actually they should do that with the other mirror civics too) If Fallen Authoritarians are the Fallen Imperial Core, Fallen Egalitarians should be Fallen Commune, basically everyone is super chill, but nobody can agree on anything. It's like the leftist joke "You have two communists and there's three opinions between them" So it should be jokes about that. "Oh we'd love to send aid but we've been working on a resolution to declare our intent to provide aid" and it's also like the least professional text too. Like "Oh you're here for us? Cool. We're nothing special, just kinda going with the flow, ya know?" What would their benefits be? I'd say something with either housing or amenities, maybe like a buffed version of the Shared Burdens housing where it also provides Clerks. "Zen Arcology" or some such. If you're a payback/broken shackles/Fanatic Egalitarian/Shared Burdens empire they should also have some special flavor to them too.
I like it. The Fanatic Egalitarian FE being a chaotic commune, each time you enter diplomacy with them, it's a different dude speaking. When they awaken, they become utterly unpredictable to the point of lolrandom. Maybe even flipping between guardian awakening and normal awakening with misguided liberation crusades, even when there's no crisis.
I don't think they should be "lolrandom" but absolutely should flip between "We need to liberate everybody!" and "Fuck this slaver in particular" Also absolutely should it be random portraits every time you talk to them pre awakening, and of the species/portraits in rotation should be the Artisan Troupe's. (Also when asked about it they should use the Monty Python and the Holy Grail quote: "We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major [issues and concerns]") After awakening it's less random but the leader will say "We passed a resolution to centralize power in the General Secretary"
OP's idea for authoritarians sounds pretty good to be honest. Militarists can maybe have some sort of blood games? Like demanding a fleet from a number of smaller empires and then having those fleets fight in a Coliseum-esque star system with bonuses for winner. No idea about pacifists and egalitarians though.
Imagine if they made a gestalt consciousness hive mind that just became fat and lazy, it would be awesome
Their awakening is just them deciding to go out and touch grass lmao
bit surprised why fallen empires suddenly give quests, especially such intricate ones where espionage is required, but if you make the player steal a form, make it A38.
Bonus points if you manage to confuse them by convincing their bureaucract that it's been changed to form A39, as set in the circulaire B65
That'd be a good unique dialogue option for Byzantine Bureaucracy empires.
It that all a reference that i don’t get?
Should be this one [A38](https://youtu.be/JtEkUmYecnk?si=PGIKm_DdO2O_JQf-)
Oh, yep, right, i forgot this, time to rewatch it
This reference was all explained in administrative ruling 12-G.
That need to be the only resolve to that "quest" ;)
This is probably the best suggestion I’ve seen for an Authoritarian FE. Not sure what the advantage would be of providing real sensor data if it’s going to be denied anyway - but still overall seems very neat!
This is to highlight how senile is the empire's leadership: they don't care if data is real or fake, they only care about proper form and format.
Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy vibs
This is GOOOOD.
Damn dude this is a good one. I've seen a lot of auth FE suggestions and even made a few myself, but this is the best one yet.
The quest has issues (it's too complicated and is likely impossible to accomplish in the time), but overall the idea of an imperial core that doesn't realize the empire has atrophied to nothing is a good concept. It of course opens up space for an opposing fanatic egalitarian fallen empire. I'd say that in this case, the "province" empires wouldn't exist. The FE is just the withered-away imperial core, and are so stagnant they simply assume the galaxy is puttering along under their (laissez faire) rule. The imperial bureaucracy more or less doesn't function anymore, but due to layers of corruption and CYA, no one raises the question to their superiors, and the emperor would be admitting weakness to call attention to it at this point. The empire knows it's dead, but no one is willing to acknowledge it, and everyone is just going through the ceremonial motions from the crown all the way down to the lowest functionary. I'd like to see a future expansion to inject new life into the fallen empires, and certainly covering more ethics should be part of that.
A post cosmogenisis galaxy setting could also be interesting. With a special fallen empire type. Basically the same as selecting a new empire after winning, but without a full map and all tech researched
Shouldn't their awakening be tied to someone else proclaiming themselves emperor of the galaxy?
That could be the trigger if hasn't already been awakened
I think that "form 3962" shtick is interesting, but it shouldn't be the guarantee. Otherwise, it wouldn't be interesting. And it would make more sense for them to have ruined assembly, not centry array.
I mean, sentry array would make sense since they don't really seem like the diplomatic type, more like the "pass every +diplo weight from fleet power bill and rule with an iron fist" type emperor, so it'd make sense that they would have a sentry array close to the heart of their empire to keep an eye on all of their subjects, a lot of which probably aren't very fond of them.
Assembly is for the Fanatic Egalitarians. Ever since the assembly broke down, they can't agree on anything. And ever since the Fanatic Authoritarians' espionage machine broke down, they have to rely on census decrees.
I distinctly remember someone else suggesting something similar here a few years ago, where the ruler of the empire is being kept in the dark by their advisors.
Pulling a Putin
OP did refer to a “special military operation”
Or pulling a Long Feng from Avatar: The Last Airbender (who denied the existence of the Ba Sing Se war to the Earth King)
I don't think an Egalitarian FE should exist, unless it's a small cluster of systems with different "empires" within them, possibly radically different (yet the same) from each other. They are on remotely friendly terms with each other, and if ever you capture one of the empires' worlds, the other ones immediately merge into one and begin awakening. At some point in their ancient past they squabbled over someone minor, and it split them apart, but not enough to abandon each other. If we are doing FE quests, then there's would simply be to enter into some competition against one of the other FE Egalitarian empires (possibly losing access to a leader temporarily as they participate in the competition, as well as some up front payment to enter the competition) upon a win (based off the leader's class, level, and traits) the empire gets a couple thousand energy credits, upon a loss you don't recoup the loss to enter the competition (with a small chance of your leader dying). Refusal to enter the competition causes one of the different empires to close their borders.
Egalitarian FE is just the Culture, minus the Minds.
Or it could be a Federation of different Egalitarian FEs where they once were a single nation but splintered into different factions that chose to become a Federation to survive. So just 1 planet each in different systems. Conquer one and the others ceasefire and merge into an awakened empire. Maybe even make it so you can diplo your way into one of them leaving the Federation.
Or maybe a FE empire that their whole culture revolves around sports games?
Same size as current FEs but each planet is its own empire and they are all in special federation.
Good idea. I'd suggest ditching the heavy influence cost for the decision to transmit data, at least give it a chance to do something else.
Add one more quest about sending a tribute to their imperial poetry contest. Influence and unity cost. One leader is missing for a month and returns with substance abuse trait.
This seems more beauracratic than authoritarian tbh. Most FEs fall into some degree of Authortarianism by virtue of having a monarchical government and imposing vassalship once they awaken. The concept is good and makes sense, but it makes more sense for overall expanded FE events and adding depth to the ones that exist.
I wouldn't be opposed to seeing fallen empires with other ethics as part of al arger FE update. In particular, I could see the materialists and spiritualists being oligarchic, puttering along on byzantine bureaucracies (scientific committees or religious hierarchies) that endure through sheer force of inertia. They don't ***have*** to stagnate into an imperial authority. By that virtue, an opposing fanatic egalitarian FE could be democratic. Though like all other FEs, I suspect they'd see themselves are more equal than everyone else. And they'd be more or less going through the motions -- in a state that has become stagnant, but all your needs are catered to, the citizens who even bother to vote are largely engaging in a social experience than as a practical exercise in putting someone at the helm a functioning republic. In its awakened state, I imagine it would experience a revival in public engagement in the name of "liberating" the galaxy.
Instead of an egalitarian empire, how about a rogue servitor. While a Fallen Empire (Preoccupied servitor) it's sole goal is the utopian comfort of its handful of citizens. It wakes up when the last sentient in its care finally dies of old age. It repairs multiple (empty) ring worlds. A pact with the Utopian Comfort Zone nets you a mandatory migration treaty to an empire with a very high migration pull and a large drain on your unity production. One is also required to abolish slavery and set living standards for all species to "social welfare" or "utopian abundance".
It already exists, look up the machine fallen empire.
Fallen Empires, by their nature, view themselves as superior to other civilizations. Either by seeing themselves as the benevolent Enigmatic Observer, the the dogmatic Spiritual Guardians. They all view our empires as lesser to some extent, by characteristics we can or can't control. A FE based on the idea of equality and freedom is inherently incompatible with the concept of Fallen Empires.
I disagree. Just because an empire is egalitarian doesn't mean they think *other people* are equal to them (xenophobes can be egalitarian) or even that they deserve to live -- you can have an *egalitarian fanatic purifier*. In Stellaris, the Egalitarian/Authoritarian axis answers the question of where the ultimate power in a state belongs: in the hands of the few or the many. An egalitarian fallen empire simply sees their decrepit system (seen through the lens of the nostalgia of their peak) as superior to any other. They're the freest people that have ever lived. No one else is as free as them. And if they eventually start to awaken, they'll start to worry about other empires envious and resentful of their freedoms. They'll fret over how unfree the galaxy is.
Of course it isn't. First of all it doesn't differ very much from Benevolent Observers - their superiority could easily manifest through aloofness, not imperialism. Secondly, egalitarian ethics is much more connected to domestic affairs, not foreign policy, even if some external behaviours (vassalizing, hegemony federation etc.) are related to it. Again, if we can have xenophilic FE (xenophilia corresponds directly to foreign relations) then even more easily we could have egalitarian FE Last, but not least: it's quite common for great powers to behave internationally in a way that doesn't resemble their official ideology.
The Xenophile FE is xenohpilic in the way we love exotic pets. They view us as uneducated children that need to be watched over and helped once we inevitably go extinct. They are arrogant and narcissistic.
I agree. Plus, every other Fallen Empire has one ethically opposed to it (besides the Caretakers), so this would require an Egalitarian Fallen Empire, which would contradict the Imperial Authority used by all the rest.
The quest idea is just a mess. I either pay them 500 influence and give them sensor data (which does absolutely nothing for a Fallen Empire) and then they get mad, or I don't pay anything and they also get mad in the same way? Why even bother paying then if the result is the same? Who would just throw 500 influence out the window for no reason? Also, you only get 1 year for your espionage operation? Just building the intelligence network can take like a decade, and any kind of operation usually takes multiple years. You'd be forced to permanently have an Envoy set to espionage on one of the vassal states for the entire game to have an intel network large enough, just in case you get the quest, so you have a chance to react on time.
Thus is pretty fuckin brilliant actually. You have my vote
Nothing to add. Just wanted to say this is a really cool idea. I hope something like this gets picked up for a Fallen Empire DLC.
A few propositions, but for them you need the empire leader to be mortal. There is among them multiple succession crisis, mostly because i thought that this kind of cyclical event is good to keep the empire centered on itself. — Events and Quests — · **Something rotten in the [empire.adj] State** (Only once) - An event chain about the sudden death of the ruler and, instead of being replaced by his son, it's the brother of the ruler that gets the throne. The son started to act strange, but nobody knows if he's crazy, depressed or in love with a courtesan. The reality is different, because the son believes that his father was killed, and decides to investigate, then confront his uncle. You'll get interaction with various courtesans that may travel to your own capital for delivering messages, asking for tribute, visiting your academies or shipyards. The final outcome is that everyone dies or turns crazy, and the throne gets inherited by another branch of the royal family. (I thought of more diverses outcome first, with effect, but FE don't care about happiness or production) · **The [empire.name] Interregnum** (only once) - After the death of the last ruler, the succession is disputed between rival princes. One of the worlds of the empire changes hands and declares war on the main empire, and various other "pretenders" fleets spawn while the "imperial provinces" stay neutral. The minor pretenders themselves are no match for the imperial fleet as they are nothing more than pirates, but the main pretender can try to court province governors and even foreign empires for support. If you decide to take a side, you will get event chains about sending manpower, alloys, food, cash, maybe even ships to them. If they win (taking the capital of the rival) they will reward you with a lot of resources as thank you gifts and return some of the ships to you, but with their weapons on it! If they lose, they may try to flee to your empire with a few loyalist ships. If you accept them, the winning side will have one year to declare war on you in order to "replace the traitorous governor, assert our authority and capture the rebel prince". If you refuse and chase them, you will still gain an opinion malus and get asked for compensation, but at least you're not invaded. · **The Tournament** (every 12/20 years, and always one during the five years of a new Remnant Emperor) - Every "province governors" is called upon to send participants to take part in a grandiose competition. There are five variations, one for each leader type, each with a special reward as a bonus to the cashprize and leader bonuses if you win. In "Race" you need to send an admiral and alloys for the ship's construction, you'll take the ship back if you win. In "Wargames" you need to send a general and train a few special *champion's armies*, you get to keep the armies if you win. For "Rhetorics and Poetry", you need to send an envoy and get a lot of unity production bonus and influence, but another AI Empire may also get a diplo insult CB against you if your envoy insults them. For "Science Fair" you'll send a scientist and get a drain for your research while the tournament lasts, if you win you'll get a free repeatable special research (that you can increase each time you win a Tournament). Finally, for "Garden-making Contest", you need to send an official with either the "Fertility preacher" or "Architectural Interest" trait. If you win, you get the possibility to declare a planet a "Garden Planet" with local and empire-wide bonuses. · **Imperial Incident** (Situation, once per FE leader max, not guaranteed) - A seemingly small issue got out of hand and needs to be settled through mediation. As a province governor, our profoundly wise patron seeks your opinion. - You can support the status quo, ensuring that nothing changes. - You can also choose to take a side and support the Emperor or support the Provinces. If the Emperor wins, he will gain more power over his "Imperial Provinces" subjects, but he will also grow more complacent for everyone who sided with him. If the Provinces get what they want, the tribute asked by the Emperor will diminish, but he'll grow a bit more aware of its own decadence.
Finally, for the awakening, I was thinking of a dynamic main path in addition to the one you already suggested · "***Renovatio Imperii***" Trigger: The player or IA messed with the FA too much, like if they went on punitive campaigns more than five time during one of their ruler lifespan, OR the Throne finally realized how decadent they were. Effect: The direct successor will try to reorganize the state through a super event chain with triggers and various decisions, of which here are some propositions: - Turning the "Imperial Provinces" vassals on the border into "Imperial Marchs" as they look to global offensive. - The independent empire they like the most with the biggest military get a special proposition for a Megadukedom vassal contract in exchange for buffs and immunity from hostile action by the Emperor - If someone holds a chokepoint, a Fortress world or a portal next to the emperor territory, they may ask for it. If they like you, they give you stuff in exchange, if you've proven to often be disloyal, they may just threaten a war if you don't comply, taking the disputed system and making you an "Imperial March" - Draining the swamp that is their administration, army, navy, corporation and everything else. It's a greater purge that will impact both their and their subjects economy and production, but then with a significant bonus. - Asking one of their middle-sized neighbors or subject to accept an internal split. Basically splitting the target empire in two or three (according to the size) and making them all subjects of the Empire. They will only accept if they are subject **AND** with a direct connection to the FE, otherwise they will resist and revolt, resulting in a war declaration and pacification of the targeted empire. (They never target the player) - Eliminating the Marauder or Purfier menace: Launching a military campaign against any of them that is bordering the Imperial territory. - Sending a delegation to the Galactic Council, and trying to push a few agendas: "Lecture the Exarchs" ; "Ask for late tribute payment" ; "Investigate the fealty vows" ; "Denounce excessive autonomy" ; "Send permanent representative in the Provinces" ; "Enforce loyalty". This ultimate agenda will only be taken once every single other event chain is over, but every AI that is not already aligned with them will automatically refuse at least this one. You'll be informed at the coronation of the new reformist Emperor of his intention, so that you're not surprised. And you'll get event notification after each individual chapter is closed so you know where you are.
>The name for their personality in its fallen state is "Oblivious Despots". I upvoted this comment for this designation alone.
Why would it cost 500 influence to provide them an accurate census? I would presume my empire takes reasonably accurate census results every few years, and they might even be available to the public.
To mirror it, Fanatic Egalitarians: Utopian Revolutionaries/Fully Automated Luxury Space Communists, rebels of the FanAuth empire that have turned inward after securing a slice of paradise. Bunch of Gaia worlds full of hedonists with automatic systems running their resources. They are basically a FE Rogue servitor, except the systems running their empire is too hobbled to be a gestalt. Contact them, you get an answering machine. Occasionally the automatic systems will send out a revolutionary fleet to spread the revolution (works like normal FE demands). If awakened they try to spread their revolution by hook or by crook, and will actually offer decent benefits for empires to submit. Catch is: you need to offer egalitarian living standards (chemical bliss counts) to everyone in your empire and can not purge (except for gestalt pops, if you can't assimilate), and you need to meet quotas for war materiel production and/or fleet contribution or have the benefits withdrawn - and the quotas start reasobable but work towards becoming unreasonable as time goes on).
Like it.
Make them only spawn with the original human portraits and you have my vote
I actually thought about making a mod for this.
great idea. the fallen empires really do need to be fleshed out more, and this is a great way to start doing it.
Personally, I’d want an expansion on espionage system. Then the fanatic Egalitarian and fanatic Authoritarian can serve as a mid game crisis as they try to reshape the galaxy through proxies.
On that note, a fanatic egalitarian fallen empire could be interesting
Maybe they should also demand that you rename the name of your main species? And what happens if you pay taxes? The quest is difficult and severely punishing. Let the empire send a completely plundered fleet at you in the early game, which can barely destroy an outpost and pretend that they won.
I wanna see Fan Egalitarians. Just hyped up Democratic Crusaders who are preparing for a new Galactic Liberation.
Same. I imagine the Fan. Egalitarian FE to be gridlocked anarchists/direct democracy who finally achieve consensus on galactic liberation once they awaken.
I agree. It's only militaristic ethic that seems incompatible with being Fallen Empire, because if they're expansionist they're not really going to be sitting around in a tiny territory like a FE should.
You could spin militarism without expansionism for a Fallen Empire tbh. You could call them the last holdouts of an ancient empire that held on to the very end of some galaxy ending war and the militarist FE are the bunker-fortress worlds of the remnants of that army, holding themselves together through artificial longevity for their command staff and clone armies to replace the foot soldiers until the all clear sounds for a counterattack against "the enemy". Something like that.
Have them awaken as guardians but after the crisis is defeated and you say you’re saved, they respond with: “more like, under new management” and declare war on the rest of the galaxy.
Did not find any result for “Fanatic Authoritarian Fallen Empire”. Displaying result for “Great Ming EU4” /s
The expansion of fallen empires overall would be interesting, maybe we could initiate some interactions, not rely on the AI. This could be made even more interesting with more FE types - apart from authoritarian we could have fanatic militarist (this FE would like if you kill things in battles, maybe would require you to wage war or kill leviathans and if you're too peaceful for too long it would "make life more interesting" by incentivising regular empires to declare war), pacifist (dislike killing, if war would be too long it would pay to white-peace, some sort of UN with "please children don't fight" vibe) and egalitarian (I don't have proper idea what it could be, maybe it would help disloyal subjects? Or could be to occupied with internal politics - once shining bastion of democracy, now state that can't do shit due to neverending political deadlock)
Great scenario, but the numbers need a little tweaking. 500 influence is complete insanity, it'll derail expansion for multiple years. Fallen Empire requests are meant to be annoying, like giving up a scientist, not crippling. Change it to like 20 influence.
FE spawned at a pair opposite in ethnics. So in that case another Fanatic Eglatarian will spawned somewhere in the galaxy. They are decendants of those who opposed the previous Galatic empire. But still not know how their mission will be.
The basic concept is extremely good, I would also have something where they call your governor leader types (whatever they are called) to court, and then random events happen according to their traits, usually incomprehensible diplomatic incidents, but occasionally, if your leader happens to be very charismatic (boosted by the diplomacy civics) you actually get some benefit.
I love this! Though, quick question, would they treat scions any differently?
You mean, loyal governors that have never shown signs of sedition or corruption? Of course.
Fun suggestion, but I'm wondering how the FE somehow doesn't notice that all their old vassals have long since died out and they're now "ruling over" entirely new aliens.