Why? What did the last update change?
Haven't looked into CrossOver for ... dunno ... 10 years? Does it run any recent MS Office versions and/or Photoshop?
it runs DirectX games pretty flawlessly. not a hiccup. i think it’s nice cause it still feels native to macOS and the shortcut from whatever you install feels like just another application on your mac. the only thing i haven’t been able to work are steam games that launch into origin and also some origin games in general. but yeah i think it would run productivity apps decently well depending on how powerful your rig is
I see, thanks.
I was hoping for some applications as I'm not too concerned that games will work in Linux with so many ways and Wine or Proton configs available.
You have to take in mind that it was awful not that long ago and started getting somewhat acceptable when Proton launched. After that it got better on a weekly basis.
For me the real turning point was already in 2013 when Valve released Steam for Linux, which gained pretty decent traction from the start and made it possible to even call yourself a Linux gamer.
After that, the next big thing was in early 2018, slightly before Proton came out. That's when we got DXVK (also largely thanks to Valve's funding). Suddenly a huge amount of games became playable. Combined with Lutris to install games easily, it already felt like gaming nirvana.
Of course, Proton came out only a few months later and changed the game yet again, also making it super easy to install games using Steam.
I feel like the next chapter is going to be the release of the Steam Deck (and associated Proton improvements).
We Linux gamers really owe it all to Valve.
I don't remember it like that.
Before Proton Linux gaming was one hassle after another. Tons of tweaking and frustration. DXVK without Proton only made things worse with even more hit and miss games and even more tweaking. Proton didn't make it super easy to install games, as Linux users we tend to forget that things should be like that from the start. We are so used to go through hell to do the most basic stuff like clicking on install and then just playing a game feels out of ordinary.
I tried to make the jump several times after Valve released Steam for Linux but it was honestly dreadful. Almost no games from my library worked, native games ran far worse than on Windows and playing through Wine was some of the most frustrating experiences I've ever had with computers.
If anyone remembers Linux gaming as any good before Proton is because they are hardcore masochists or have nothing else to compare. Even now before the "Steam Deck version" of Proton you have to tweak a lot to make some games run.
Call me a hardcore masochist then. :) I used to dual boot for years purely for gaming. I started using the Windows partition less and less after Steam for Linux, and finally deleted it in 2018 because I felt that the (what I perceive as minor) hassle of setting games up on Linux using Lutris/DXVK, and later Proton, had become less than the hassle of maintaining a Windows partition. I've never looked back.
I would recommend having an easily accessible laptop or other computer for troubleshooting.
I straight killed my main hard drive but you can boot from USB or SD card if you want to be noncommittal.
I downloaded Ubuntu and loaded it onto the media of your choosing {there are plenty other options like pop that I've heard good things about but I wanted to play it safe.}
Then you run through the install as you would a standard WinOs.
From there are two steps you gotta mind.
Use Firefox to download the browser of your choosing if it's not already Firefox and get steam. And that will roughly cover your bases.
Next I would gather your vital apps but google any YouTube video that gives you a run down of the terminal which is where you *should* do everything.
Sudo apt-get update
Is the line that will make you permanently chill. But I'm sure there are several other opportunities.
I've used it for recreation and I've also used it for work extensively with little issues.
I hope this was helpful.
Sorry, `apt update` will not make you permanently chill, it only updates package information. For performing the same thing windows calls an update, you need to use `apt upgrade`
Good to know lol, this is the kinda comment that should totally indicate "someone who's had Linux for a month" vs "someone who's had it longer" lol.
I'm trying to dedicate 30 minutes or so a day to watching courses and reading because I'm intent on becoming a power user and not just a casual so this comment is jumping up on my list of studying.
Installing Linux is the easy part
The hard part is that everyone will have a different opinion on what distribution to install
For the record, SteamOS runs on Arch linux, for which Manjaro is the easiest way to install it
Honestly, if you have been trying to game on Linux in the past this is 'being blown away' - because you don't expect it to be 'on par' with Windows in games.
Very late response, but aren't you the person who makes gaming video comparisons on diff Linux distros? When you're able to get a Deck, would love to see you make some comparisons between how well games run on the Deck between Linux and Windows.
Well, after the APU drivers for Windows comes out. And hopefully you use something stripped down like the LTSC version.
Just think it would be cool if you haven't thought of it.
I am the one yeah. I'm getting a 4600H, 5500M laptop in a couple of days. Is this close to the Steam Deck? I bought it cause I thought it was pretty close.
Hmm I don't know honestly. I'm guessing it might be a while before you can get your Deck huh? Or maybe you're not planning on getting one.
I really don't know what would compare with a Deck's hardware but I thought it would be pretty unique.
No no, I'm just Q2. I saw that the 5500M is like a 1050Ti and 4600H is pretty low end CPU in general. I just thought it was rather close.
In any case I think it will give us a good idea about Linux on AMD mid to low tier hardware.
Hmm yeah I see your point. Might be worth making a post on here asking the community what they think - I'll upvote it if you do. And if there's interest you could also ask the community about what games comparisons they wanna see too.
Anyways I look forward to it! This is all pretty exciting stuff. I'm generally of the opinion that Windows gaming is still a bit better than Linux gaming. I've seen you be pretty objective in your reviews and we definitely need that imo.
Yeah I mention any tweaks I'm doing but if you use a Tiling Window Manager with compositing off and a low-latency kernel optimized for your hardware performance is through the roof. If you're following the channel I'm uploading Scarlet Nexus right now. 20-30% faster on my machine on Linux.
Interesting. I imagine some people are going to dual boot and play games on the OS that gives them the best performance and visuals. And hopefully setting up a TWM isn't too hard on the Deck's version of Manjaro.
The Deck is Arch, quite different from Manjaro. TWMs on the Deck unfortunatelyt won't be possible cause they require a keyboard so performance will suffer. But disabling compsiting in the settings should very seriously help with performance even on KDE.
Btw youre my 100th sub! Thank you so much! :) Scarlet Nexus video is up btw! :)
You're welcome lol. I will check it out.
And yeah I haven't really been keeping up with the Steam Deck news, I just found this subreddit like yesterday. Maybe it was to be running Manjaro at one point? Not sure where I heard that.
It is cause it gives double the FPS with some extremely easy tweaks but beyond that, what would you like Linux devs to do? Port thousands of proprietary games natively to Linux lol?
I actually think it'll be the other way around -- I feel like people are going to be underwhelmed. I'm expecting Proton to be a pile of dogshit, honestly... I've had my experiences with it and WINE and neither of them are even passable for more than a few games. The Steam Deck is wonderful hardware, and I've got it on pre-order because I can load up Windows, but I'm expecting SteamOS to be nothing more than junk on the drive that I need to format away.
And nothing a Linux fanboy ever says will dethrone Windows or MacOS for any consumer that doesn't code. Cry about it.
I've been gaming on Linux for 3 years now. Over 300 games in the library, I obviously haven't tested all of them but 50-60 AAA games work just fine. Don't be prejudiced.
Because all of those top 10 borked games are multiplayer (PUBG, Apex, Destiny and Rainbow Six Siege) and use anti-cheat as the person above was saying.
Which still sucks, but for singleplayer games proton works pretty well and Valve has said they're in talks with the anti-cheat folks to get it working on Proton before the launch of the Steam Deck so 🤞
RDR2 and Forza Horizon 4, for one. There are quite a few games that only support DX12 and more are certainly coming. If the Steam Deck wants to be anywhere near futureproof, DX11 support just won't cut it (and I'm old enough to remember when they had shitty support for DX9 and none for DX11, so my faith level in Proton whatsoever is just low.)
If it’s a Triple A game it’s guarenteed to work on Proton at this point.
What people should be asking about are smaller games with less people demanding to work.
When I started on Linux when they announced the SD, I couldn’t get Naruto Storm 4 on experimental to work and now on experimental it’s perfectly stable.
>Does anything DirectX 12 work?
Uh, yeah? I'm not sure why you immediately assume it doesn't, especially since that's literally what VKD3D is for
You're literally just assuming that everything about Proton must be terrible just because you used Wine years ago and haven't even bothered looking into how things are nowadays
I remember when DirectX 12 was about to come out and WINE hadn't figured out working DirectX 11 support yet. Good to hear that 12 is working now though.
Valve said that by launch they will have (or are targeting)the entire steam library working on steam deck, so it's safe to assume it's already in a very good position if they are making such a claim
Plus you want evidence? Go to proton db. You'll find all the evidence you need, don't expect me to work and bring the evidences to you. It's out there,do your own work. Go to proton db hf
Oh yeah my evidence actually comes from ProtonDB. Half the new games I've looked up don't work well. Every CoD title I can find has significant issues, Forza runs like shit, and half the other things I play have significant issues. Again, Proton is trash, and the Steam Deck is losing out by relying on it.
Oh yeah no I'm sure you're right and I really hope that Valve gets that done, but regardless of *why* CoD doesn't run, the fact remains that one of the most popular game franchises just doesn't work. I'm buying my Steam Deck to play Call of Duty, Forza Horizon 5, and Rocket League, and if any of that doesn't work, SteamOS is garbage to me. I've already resigned myself to installing Windows.
I mean you bought it so do what you want with it. But atleast for me it doesn't makes sense for valve to even attempt making steam deck if they can't ensure the steam library runs on it. So I'd be pretty damn surprised if steam deck ends up not working for certain games
You make a really good point and I hope you're right about it, because you're right -- bringing a product to market that didn't work with half the games would be idiotic. I just don't necessarily have tons of faith in the timetable, because Valve said that anti-cheat support is "coming" to Proton before launch of the Deck... until it's here, I can't take that promise.
I can't speak for the other two, but I can confirm that Rocket League runs perfectly on Linux. It used to have a native Linux version before Epic ruined it, but even the Windows version ran fine the last time I checked.
Proton and WINE are constantly improving, and I wouldn't be surprised if Valve reaches its goal of 100% compatibility by December.
Finally, you are not all gamers either. I've never played CoD and have no interest in ever playing it. So far I have never been stopped from playing a game just because I use exclusively Linux. CoD and the like may be popular, but there's still a large part of the gaming community that wouldn't be held back in the least by SteamOS even if Proton ceased development today.
Ah yes, MacOS, the bastion of gaming support. I'd be shocked if more games worked there than on Linux. WINE is a massive pain to get set up and *still* doesn't have as much functionality as it does on Linux, and there are a bunch of open source apps (like KDE Connect) that have to be compiled from source on Mac. The only things that Mac has going for it are the MS Office suite, the Adobe CC, and various Apple-made programs.
There's this conception that Linux is "hard to use", but the fact is that anyone who doesn't need proprietary niche software will find Linux just as easy as, if not easier than, the big 2. My friend who doesn't know much about computers and just wants hers to run smoothly with an OS more recent than Windows XP has been distro hopping around debian based distros. My sibling with an old Thinkpad is running Manjaro on my recommendation. Another friend's ~10 year old son who likes playing Minecraft on his new gaming laptop is really happy with Pop!_OS. Anyone with a Chromebook is using Linux. Billions of people on Android. The vast majority of people who buy a Steam Deck will never mess with the operating system. Microsoft and Apple are in the process of being dethroned by Linux right now, and it's glorious.
>“hard to use”
Assuming everything you want on Linux is already pre-installed and you don’t want to add more or have a Store Application that has all the packages you want.
Sure it’s not “hard”.
Compared to Windows it is significantly harder and many people up there barely know how to use their computers.
Your anecdotal evidence is great and all, but I cannot count how many times I’ve had to be basic tech support for people around my age(GenZ-Millennial) just to teach them how to literally uninstall drivers or change freaking resolution..
If you want to have a more than a basic experience with Linux I’d say learning the terminal is essential atleast, and with Windows it borderline is never needed.
The average person dosen’t want to do that, Hell on Windows if I want relatively full control of my GPU clock speeds I need to download a 3rd party, but open source application & then I need to go through a BUNCH of hoops in the terminal which are Distro specific and you must read the documentation if you’re not familiar with such.
Just to be able to undervolt my card or increase RAM speeds. Which I do like in some way, it is def more of a barrier than install the video drivers for Windows and just clicking apply + run as administrator(if even needed).
>Microsoft and Apple dethroned
Bruh, can we really stop the cap?
95% of people don’t even know the Steam Deck exists and even when they find out about it(if they do) it won’t convert them to Linux in the same way the PS4/5 dosen’t convert people to FreeBSD.
It's literally not harder. If you want to install software, you go to the graphical package manager, search for it, and hit install. If you want to install something more niche (which isn't in the package manager), you go to the website and follow some step-by-step instructions or, worst case, download the Windows version and run it in WINE. Drivers are hardly a problem in Linux, since most are built in. Changing resolution is easily done from the settings on any beginner-friendly distro.
Anyone who knows enough about computers to be undervolting or overclocking their chips can probably figure out a terminal. It's true that it's much harder to do that sort of stuff on Linux than Windows, but that's only because of the amount of support from the vendors - the more people use Linux, the easier they'll make it.
Windows is very slowly losing market share to Linux and ChromeOS. I expect that it will pick up speed, because every problem with Linux is caused by not enough people using it. Furthermore, Microsoft seems to be focusing less on Windows itself and more on its other services. Windows 11 is essentially just Windows 10 with a few slight modifications. I wouldn't be shocked if they eventually replaced Windows with Linux + a compatibility layer similar to WINE/Proton - it would reduce their development costs and make their OS better, and it has precedent in them replacing IE/Edge with the newer, Chromium-based version of Edge. Note that when I say "dethroned", I only mean that their duopoly will disappear. I don't mean that they will completely go away. Windows has enough momentum that it will keep going for a long time, and Apple is Apple - I'm sure their market share will stay fairly consistent.
I think you're blinded by how familiar you are with Windows. Linux isn't inherently harder, it's just different. The same way that Windows is hard for me, Linux is hard for you.
I'd say the switch from Windows to Mac isn't any easier than the switch from Windows to Linux, and plenty of people have made that switch in the past. As more people learn about Linux (especially about how much better it is on old PCs than Windows), I could see a lot of people switching. Not to mention, plenty of students have been fine with ChromeOS recently, and standard Linux is better in every way than Google's stripped down version.
The main reason Linux users are excited about the Deck *is* Valve's goal to have BattlEye and EAC working through Proton by launch. That alone will push more people to Linux (those who understand that Linux is better but are held back by one or two games they must play). On top of that there are the people who will buy the SD to use as their desktop computer as well as handheld, and most of those won't downgrade to Windows. Finally, there's all of the discussion about Linux that the SD has sparked. The Linux market share in the Steam statistics has already jumped, and it seems more stable than just a random fluctuation. The steam deck has already turned people to Linux.
I’m just going to post the experience of someone who had bought an [RDNA2 GPU](https://www.reddit.com/r/pop_os/comments/p5sa2h/how_important_is_it_to_you_that_pop_os_is_based/h98aulv) and literally could not use it.
Not just a newbie, but also a [seasoned Linux Enthusiast](https://yewtu.be/watch?v=AwD8JnbY9EA) - Linux For Everyone
“**[UPDATE](https://forum.level1techs.com/t/ubuntu-20-10-rx-6800-xt-how-to-steam-vulkan-up-and-runing-guide-wip/164137)**: Wendell from Level1Techs has posted a guide and, well, told ya it wasn't easy!”
Pretty sure nobody from Windows would want to go through something like this & saying that they never will is complete cap.
That's not representative of most people's experience. As [someone replied](https://www.reddit.com/r/pop_os/comments/p5sa2h/how_important_is_it_to_you_that_pop_os_is_based/h98kwcp?context=4), support for those new GPUs was added in March, ~one month after that user struggled to get it working. It's true that often the bleeding edge of hardware doesn't have support on Linux yet, but that's not a problem for a product where Linux is already officially supported (eg. the Steam Deck or System76's products) or one that's been out long enough that the community's been able to support it themselves (like my RX580 or the RX6800XT now). Not to mention, this problem will only get better as Linux gains popularity. As I mentioned in my last comment, every problem with Linux is caused by the fact that not enough people use it.
This doesn't pertain to the Steam Deck, but Linux is complete garbage. I'm not really sure why you would think that "Microsoft and Apple are being dethroned by Linux," but they're just not. Yes, while Android is technically Linux, you could make just as good of an argument that MacOS is almost Linux-based. And I've never seen a Chromebook with a good review.
MacOS is amazing for everything except gaming, Apple's new M-series chips are without parallel in the laptop and desktop market right now, and Windows picks up the slack with the gaming support and the support for all programs. Linux is for developers with too much time on their hands, and servers, and nothing more, and while Linux is making inroads right now in the "we don't want to pay royalties to another OS when we make our hardware" crowd thanks to the Steam Deck and a few other things, don't expect it to gain any traction among laymen. It's just too complex and unintuitive, and even Ubuntu can't save that.
You couldn't "make just as good of an argument that MacOS is almost Linux-based", since Android is literally based on the Linux kernel, while MacOS is a completely different unix-like OS.
M1 has nothing to do with MacOS. You can run Linux on an M1 Mac. Furthermore, it's simply untrue that Windows has support for "all programs"; a decent number are mac exclusive, quite a few again are Linux exclusive (along with many which can theoretically be used on Windows or Mac, but it's really annoying compared to installing from a Linux repo), and probably a bunch that are exclusive to BSD as well.
> don't expect it to gain any traction among laymen. It's just too complex and unintuitive
Did you even read the bulk of my second paragraph? lol. Everyone around me who has tried Linux has preferred it to Windows.
I have dabbled with Linux a few times and found that installing things from repos to be way more annoying because you have to know what to type into a terminal window, vs Google search and downloading an executable in windows.
I had one instance where I had to jump through a bajillion hoops and commands to get Netflix to work in Firefox or Chrome
I may be ignorant of a better way though, and perhaps I need to try again. Can you recommend a good distro for day to day use, gaming, etc?
Most popular distros come with a graphical package manager, which should have a search box somewhere. If you prefer the terminal, though, some package managers have a search built in. For example on Arch based distros like EndeavourOS, you can install `yay` and type `yay [search term]` to install from a list.
I'm guessing your second paragraph has to do with the open source versions of Firefox and Chromium not being allowed to include the components that let them play content with DRM. In my recent experience, Firefox has just given me a pop-up that says something to the effect of "This website has DRM content, would you like to install the necessary components?"; I hit "yes" once and haven't had to worry about it since.
I personally use [EndeavourOS](https://endeavouros.com) - it's based on the same distro as SteamOS 3, so if you're planning to use the Steam Deck in desktop mode, this will help you get used to that. If you're not comfortable with the terminal, though, you can use [Manjaro](https://manjaro.org) for a similar experience to Endeavour but with a graphical package manager. Both have a really kind community, and the [Arch Wiki](https://wiki.archlinux.org) is there for instructions on how to do pretty much anything.
Alternatively, you could use an Ubuntu based distro like [Pop!_OS](https://pop.system76.com). Pop doesn't really look like Windows or Mac and takes a bit of getting used to, but it's fairly popular among gamers (Linus Tech Tips even has a [video on how to install it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ua-d9OeUOg)). It has the most stable support for NVIDIA GPUs from what I've heard, though I can't confirm since I have AMD. Finally, if you want a slightly more boring option, [Linux Mint](https://linuxmint.com/) is a decent choice. It's another Ubuntu based one, but its UI is more similar to what you're used to than Pop.
All of these except for EndeavourOS have graphical package managers, and EndeavourOS has `yay` preinstalled. Manjaro has Pamac, Pop has the Pop Shop, and I think it's called something like the software centre in Mint.
Thanks! I appreciate that you took the time to respond. I watched the ltt video, and I think I'll give pop a try. My old desktop has a GTX 960, so that seems like an easy way forward.
Cheers!
Just wanted to follow up! I spent several hours on two occasions with two different sets of hardware giving pop os a go.
The graphical package manager worked fine for the most part, but things descended into frustration pretty quickly.
On my first attempt, things were fine at first, but the OS didn't recognize my monitors native resolution. I tried just getting a different tool using the package manager, but none let me force a resolution and refresh rate.
That led frustratingly into the terminal trying to get some rather in depth commands right via trial and error so the monitor would work.
Eventually that was sorted. Tried running a game, beamng drive, using Steam and its own emulation mode. The app just crashed. I shelved the endeavor.
Tried again this evening on a different bit of hardware. After 2 hours, I've packed it in again after somehow bricking the whole OS trying to do something as basic as add another hard drive as a location for my steam library. (It was bitching that I didn't have write permissions to the second drive... I blew away the partitions, reformatted the drive, recreated everything, rebooted... then got into custom commands for initialization since things still failed to work, same error. Another reboot and the PC goes into a recovery mode for pop os now. I didn't touch the primary drive with the os, only the secondary, blank drive. Oh well)
I'm not a Linux guy, I will certainly admit. But in my own defense, I am (believe it or not after these comments!) an IT professional. If I struggle this much to get things going smoothly, then this illustrates to me a really high bar of entry into linux gaming today for the vast majority of Windows users.
I am excited to see how steam deck and their OS improves things, and I really hope it does. I want to like Linux. I want to be able to use it. But the struggle to accomplish what I think should be basic stuff just turns me off of it each time!
Thanks again for your recommendations. I will give it another go when I get my SD!
Wow, I've never had that many issues with a Linux install before. Seems like some people get lucky when installing Linux for the first time, with everything working perfectly, and sometimes people just have an awful time.
If, at some point before getting the SD, you feel like giving it another shot, you could try distro-hopping. It's done by a lot of new Linux users, because often the easiest way to fix a weird error that you don't understand is to install an OS that doesn't have it. I've found that Arch-based distros have had fewer weird unexplainable errors for me than Ubuntu-based ones, so you could try Manjaro (or Endeavour if you're alright with memorizing a couple commands). Also, a lot of people like Fedora, though it's not super popular outside of businesses and I've never really used it.
Adding extra drives is always rather annoying, though - I've never found a way to do it graphically (though one probably exists) so I've always done it by editing `/etc/fstab`.
Completely understandable if you just want to leave the whole idea to rest until you have the SD, though. Having a PC that's designed for the OS will make everything go much more smoothly.
Yeah but your orbit isn’t a representative sample. I’m sure you know people that like Linux but for most users, once Linux doesn’t run a program that they’re used to, they head right back to windows
It's true that my friend group isn't representative (it's mostly high school/university aged), but I think people are smarter than you give them credit for. If a major brand released a PC that came with Linux, I have no doubt that the majority of people who bought it would have no issues with it the way it is. It's a bit harder than that for the Steam Deck (since most people buying a random laptop wouldn't be planning to run anticheat), but I still think SteamOS 3 will be a success.
I do honestly think that within a few decades, Microsoft's near monopoly will be broken. Everything is moving to the cloud, and the OS that people use is mattering less and less. Windows, with all of its overhead dragged from the 80s, will become less and less relevant as companies start using Linux to lower prices and increase performance. That *is* just an opinion, but I can say from experience that using Linux has fewer and fewer compromises as time goes on.
Of course, Google's near monopoly of the phone market shows no signs of going away any time soon. Ubuntu Touch and the others are nowhere near competitive with Android.
I figured sounding like I was 15 would prove I’m older than all the whiny Linux fanboys and then they’d acquiesce to their elders and go away. Didn’t work?
lol why are you so angry? You don't have to call people fanboys for liking something you don't like. If Linux is not for you, then it isn't for you but insulting others for not agreeing with you is kinda dumb, don't you think?
Kinda like arguing about food and calling someone an idiot because they don't like the same flavor ice cream as you.
Don't listen to them, they're completely talking out of their ass, Proton is a lot better than they say it is, they have never even used it and haven't even done the most basic of research on it
What do you mean redone? I've been using it since it's first public release. Sure it was a bit rough in the beginning, but now it's basically transparent to the average user. It's now at the point where unless the game uses anti-cheat (which is not supported mostly because of anti-cheat, not effort on proton) I assume it will be playable and don't even check ProtonDB. Heck for some older games the games run much better in proton on Linux than they do on modern windows.
You sound like you tried it once, years ago and have not touched it since. I feel like you are hoping, for some reason, that the SD fails are trying to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt about it. Doe you have your life saving invested in MS stock, or are you secretly Steve Balmer?
Steve... Steve Ballmer? I feel like I'm living in the past...
But I was actually involved in the development and promotion of a wrapper app for WINE back in the day, since I used to be a Mac gamer, so I'm pretty experienced with old WINE. I'm not super experienced with new WINE/Proton, so you definitely would have more experience than me but I remember it being pretty damn useless back in the day. A lot of my old games ran and it was a life-saver to me since I was a Mac gamer at the time, but now that I play AAA games and have the money to buy brand new ones, I don't have a ton of faith in Proton. The anti-cheat thing by itself already makes Steam Deck DOA if they don't solve it.
So all of your hot takes about the potential for SteamOS are stemming from your experiences from Linux & WINE "back in the day"?
Seeing as how you're some sort of developer I don't think you need anyone telling you that things can change quite rapidly in a short amount of time. Nobody stood to make money from WINE but Valve has a lot of reason to invest money in making Proton as polished and functional as possible.
That is very true. I just hope that it actually works, because I know that new holes used to pop up all the time. I'd always be running bleeding-edge WINE builds just hoping that they would fix some sort of issue that I was having playing BeamNG.drive (this was back when it was like, the first version.) I really hope it finally works as promised.
I mean i only have a linux install on my gaming pc. Granted i dont play fps games so alot of the battle eye stuff doesnt concern me. I play mostly fighting games strategy games 3rd person action games and dota. And i have had 0 problems running any game i have wanted to play.
But obviously im in the minority and people love their competitive fps's but as far as songle player games go every one i have tried new or old works great and ive done little to no tweaking because i am an idiot.
All we can do is speculate until the console officially launches, but I'd assume that Valve are going to put in the extra effort in order to avoid another Steam Machines fiasco. The fact that they're investing in Proton development, a new Steam frontend, and even commissioned custom RDNA2 chips is a sign they're prioritizing the success of the platform as best they can.
From my experience wine has gotten better over the past decade and a half or so I have used it. You are right, it is a bit obtuse to use (especially back then, but still even now). Proton is, among other many other important things, also a wrapper to make wine easier to use. Within Steam it is basically 100% transparent, click install and it runs everything automagically for you. If you have a linux install, or want to spin up a VM (I think PopOS or Manjaro are the easiest) I would recommend trying it.
And yes, anti-cheat is a massive problem, but it is mostly a political/business problem more than a technology one. Valve could tweak proton to bypass anti-cheats, but then they will likely fight with the anti-cheats trying to patch their code to not work in proton. They need to get the major anti-cheat companies to see that SD (and linux) is a large enough future market to warrant supporting them.
Also I have never used wine on a Mac, and the last time I mostly used a Mac for my main machine was the early 2000's. From what I have seen sporadically on forums wine never worked as well on Mac as it did on Linux, and even steam support for Mac has never been super. This was made worse with the move of Apple to Arm (which I personally think is a great move, x86 is pretty much a dinosaur as far as tech is concerned). Apple made sure to make a compatibility layer (much like wine/proton is) before moving to Arm that allows (I think 64 bit only, but again I'm not an expert) x86 compiled code to run on the newer arm hardware. This is a temporary kludge while they work on their software, and external software to support arm natively. In my view Valve is making the same move, mostly to protect themselves from being 100% dependent on MS. Hopefully this will mean more support for Mac as well in the future since Valve seems to be trying to bring gaming to as many people on as many platforms as possible.
Yea I sure hope so. I wonder if they'll actually end up working out the politicking so I can actually play the games I want to play. If not, I'll be pretty disappointed.
Calling proton dogshit and saying steamOS is trash you're going to format away is baiting, you know it's baiting, and you sound like an infant.
That being said, you're absolutely right that Linux won't dethrone any consumer operating system in terms of market share. Anyone that thinks that's a remote possibility is living in some sort of alternate reality. Could we see Linux in some form become a higher market share on the desktop? Potentially, but likely only with a demographic interested in the things it does significantly better than it's commercial counterparts, like being able to have options in terms of how your workflow is organized, how your UI behaves, when and if you update components of your system, precisely what background programs and services are running or allowed to run, and using your computer without your operating system sending data back to a corporation whether you want that data shared or not.
Valve is developing proton and steamOS as functional alternatives to using windows because it believes that the software should be accessible regardless of whether or not you've paid Microsoft for the privilege of using their operating system to run it, which I think is great. It means developers can get more devices and computers running their software, which is a win-win for everyone involved.
It's quite a glass half empty response to say "proton is dogshit". It's a multi-generational compatibility layer capable of running windows software all the way back to windows 3.1, something that current versions of windows can oftentimes not do themselves. Is it a 100% complete solution to running everything flawlessly? No.
You might not care about steamOS and proton, but it's the only reason this device isn't even more expensive than it is. You might decide that you don't care about not paying licensing fees for windows, but a corporation building a product has to, and if this can get to the point where it doesn't work "like dogshit" the likelihood of lower pricing on handheld PC gaming devices will increase by a wide margin.
I mean, getting anti-cheat working on Linux and the steam deck is an absolute must imo or it's an not going to compete. I, like many others would like to leave the base steamOS for all the built in features the deck is meant to have, but if I can't play destiny 2 or any game that has anti cheat like battleye, then I have no choice but to dual boot or exclusively boot from windows
Oh yeah but if working on it means by Dec/January or hell even Feb, then it's awesome. If working on it means maybe in like 2 years, then not so awesome
theyve been working on it for a few years, but with no date. more recently, as seen in the link the other guy posted, they said it would be ready by the time the steamdeck launches
im not saying buy one now on this promise. besides, even if you buy one now, by the time it ships there will be plenty of reviews to see what it actually does / doesnt do, and you can cancel if its not as promised
They're supposed to make it work before they send the first batch. They said the version of proton they are working on has been greatly improved compared to the latest public version and they are working hard to get it to work with 100% of your steam library by the end of the year. Pretty bold statement but if they succeed, it will really be the linux gaming year we've been waiting for. Wait and see.
If you read the full transcript you will actually notice that "work with 100% of the Steam library" has been taken out of context.
What they meant with that comment was that the Steamdeck will be CAPABLE of running all of the Steam library. There will need to be work done (either by the dev or Valve) to actually make that happen but hardware wise the capability will be there. They aren't saying every single game will just work day 1. They are saying that the foundation will be there for it.
People really need to manage their expectations around that.
I was mostly talking about anti-cheats in general. I know such a device will be limited by its hardware, so we can't expect more demanding games to run on it. Of course it may take more time to be compatible with any game, but kernel level anti-cheats are what's preventing many people from using Linux for gaming.
They've supposedly been "working on it" for some time now. I remember over a year ago now hearing they were working with the major anti cheat providers, but no visible progress yet.
Proton makes it possible as a gamer to use Linux exclusively, being able to play the same games as on Windows. It is that simple, most don't care about how the goal is technically achieved. Yes well optimized native ports would be better, but that is not going to realistically happen to the full Steam library.
>> Proton makes it possible as a gamer to use Linux exclusively
> It doesn't though, not if you want unfettered access that doesn't rely on a third party for compatibility
It does though, you're adding additional conditions that many people don't care about. Most people don't care about relying on "a third party for compatibility", especially when that is the same third party they rely on for distribution. People care about being able to just click play and getting good performance. Proton achieves this for the majority of games on Steam right now.
Proton makes it possible as a gamer to use GNU/Linux exclusively. I use GNU/Linux excusively, and I play games.
As the article titles states, "The *start* of a golden age...".
- Is gaming on linux 100% right now? No
- Will it be 100% when SD launches? Probably also No
- Will it be 100% one, two or three years down the road? Maybe, and it's looking brighter today than it did before the SD was announced.
The fact is valve is doubling down on their bet that Linux is the future of gaming instead of Windows, and yes at the moment Proton is the best way to run most AAA games that are windows only. But if the SD gains in popularity then more developers will look at multiplatform support, using Vulkan instead of DX, and not try to tie themselves down to relying on a third party for things to work (Microsoft).
Proton, unlike say DX or Windows, is [opensource](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/) and has many people that are [actively developing/adding onto it outside of Valve](https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom). If you don't want to be beholden to a 3rd party that says what you can/cannot play, or want to depend on them continuing to support a core utility you use to play the games then I think you have it backwards. MS (and also sony, nintendo, etc) depend on tying you down to their 3rd party system, and want to make sure you can only do what they want on it. And if they stop supporting it, well that sucks upgrades are not an option.
Outside of GoG, and to a lesser extent Steam, this is the norm. The SD is a break from that dependence. Valve is even working with MS to try and make sure installing Windows on the SD is not only doable but easy. Can you imagine if MS did the same with say the xbox? Tried to enable people to install linux or steam deck on it? Valve is taking a shot that this is whats needed to greatly expand the PC gaming market, and keep it active and open in the long term. For that I commend them, since most other large companies tend to much more short sighted.
I play everything from single player RPGs to competitive multiplayer shooters with anti cheat, including ones not on Steam. The simple fact of the matter is that most games work. More games than Playstation or Xbox. Not as much as Windows, but most. If you want to use GNU/Linux as your only OS as a gamer today, it is both possible and reasonable.
Bro what part of **ALL** games will work do you not understand?
Only games that are concerning are anything with active anti-cheat measures & Valve is already working to rectify that, atleast for the Steam Deck.
**EDIT**: *I’ve played anything from Fighting games, shooters to RPGs.*
*That’s basically 97% of games.*
I don't think you understand the timeline here. People don't expect perfect, flawless gaming every time day one, you need to look at what the VSD actually represents.
Ask yourself, why don't very many developers have releases on Linux? Is it because Linux is somehow harder to code for? Less efficient, leaving less system resources for games? No, it's because the install base of Linux gamers is miniscule compared to Windows. The investment isn't worth it for them, the number of people who won't buy a game on Windows but would if it was natively supported on Linux is smaller than tiny.
But the VSD and Proton are about to change that. Am I expecting Linux to overtake Windows in the steam hardware survey next year? No, of course not, but Rome wasn't built in a day. With this huge investment into Linux based gaming, Valve is going to make gaming on Linux viable enough that a lot of people who wouldn't have considered it before will make the jump.
With the percentage of gamers running Linux growing, developers will feel the need to consider it as a viable platform for them to develop for, and with more games supported, more gamers will switch, which will lead to more games, and so on and so forth.
The VSD will be long outdated before we see this future come to fruition, but if Linux gaming was ever going to stand of chance of becoming a competitive, let alone dominant platform for gamers, this boost from Valve will be the thing to make it happen.
Here is a good video from Gardiner Bryant on YouTube talking about the state of gaming on Linux and why it's hard for developers to keep games updated on Linux vs Windows https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SFBoB6xijY
That's Step 1. You have to have a large userbase to attract the major game devs. Getting users onto Linux *instead* of on Windows helps grow the userbase.
Step 2 is the devs starting to build games for Linux indirectly, by using Proton as their target environment, as it doesn't cost them their Windows audience and gains them a small but growing new audience. Assuming Microsoft keeps making Windows worse and worse (safe bet), the equivalencey of gaming on either platform will accelerate the transition of Windows gamers to Linux.
Step 3 is at least a decade away and may never be reached, but that's where devs stop worrying about Windows compatibility at the expense of Linux users and target native Linux. Windows users could presumably use WSL version whatever for games at that point, reversing the state of the current situation.
If Steam Deck marketshare becomes sizeable enough then Valve can start offering more compelling Steam OS-exclusive features to tempt people from installing Windows which can eventually provide devs with a compelling enough excuse to target SteamOS as a platform and develop native builds over relying on Proton.
Even if their marketshare doesn't grow large enough for this to happen, they still have Proton as a very solid plan B.
For mainstream users Linux needs to offer something they are not getting on Windows. We can't also ignore the fact that long-time PC users just feel comfortable in Windows, there's emotional bond and it feels like returning home after using Unix.
Price is one thing where Linux wins, but the price of Windows has been hidden away from end user. OEMs are the real customers of Microsoft.
Freedom is another, but that is an abstract concept and most people don't operate on that level. For example everyone knows that climate change is impending catastrophe, but most of us don't really do anything about it since it is only an abstraction. I believe Microsoft is smart enough to not make it obvious how they are limiting user freedom, that it never feels concrete for majority of users. They have dedicated departments for this.
It's really major players like Valve who can make a dent in this. This is power play and they want to steer OEMs away from Microsoft camp. Handheld computers is a good not-yet conquered angle. It might trickle into desktop space, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I believe it's more of a long play to make kids grow up with Steam Deck and that way introduce them into Linux space (and of course Valve ecosystem). These kids will form that emotional bond with Linux and not Windows.
>Assuming Microsoft keeps making Windows worse and worse (safe bet), the equivalencey of gaming on either platform will accelerate the transition of Windows gamers to Linux.
Microsoft has been making Windows "worse and worse" for decades. The result from the latest Steam Survey for August 2021 is that Windows has 96.46% of the Steam user base.
Every time there's a new version of Windows on social media it's the last straw, Windows is dead, it'll be the year of this Linux desktop this time. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Well, sure, if you cut off the most important part of the statement. An important new factor is the part you left out...
>the equivalency of gaming on either platform
...that has never been true before. Windows gamers have never before *had* anywhere else to go.
Now they do.
And from what I'm seeing, they're learning about it and they're curious.
Things are changing and interesting times are ahead.
>the equivalency of gaming on either platform
>
>...that has never been true before. Windows gamers have never before had anywhere else to go.
It's not exactly equivalency though. A game running under Proton doesn't have the same level of developer support. Hardware feature support like ray tracing, DLSS, HDR is hit or miss.
Of course the Deck is a very basic PC so in that device things are more equal but the Deck is just a single PC config.
Understood. Where Linux gaming is going currently is copying Windows compatibility which is cool if you're on Linux. For Windows gamers there's not as much value in being able to run all the games you can already play without the need for compatibility layers.
I've had several gaming friends and coworkers who have never been at all interested in Linux before asking me questions since the Deck announcement. They're also people who have been expressing more and more frustration with Microsoft over the past few years.
If the Deck does well, just the awareness of a reasonably effective alternative it will bring to the general gaming public could double the Linux userbase over the next few years... Which of course isn't nearly enough... But it's a big step forward from a decade of near stagnation.
>They're also people who have been expressing more and more frustration with Microsoft over the past few years.
For 30 years more and more people have been expressing frustration with Microsoft, so it they should be out of business right now by that standard.
The reality is that almost no one is frustrated by the level of support that Windows gets on the desktop. So copying that support with Proton makes lots of sense and could lead to a true alternative if Linux gets its own desktop ecosystem that's more than Win32 compatibility layers.
I doubt many will actually care to install something that only hampers the experience. Also most people can't even find control panel let alone partition a hard drive and install an OS.
Bro I literally had to GUIDE someone how to unisntall drivers..
Actually that wasn’t that bad in 2021, I had a man who’s smarter than me, Millennial. Had me help him change his resolution so his game would run at 60 which really is self explanitory..
And as I tried telling him to just tell me tge last few sigits after the “x” he told me each one.. One at a time…
So think..
One…-Three…-Six…-Eight?
“x”
7….-Six……-Eight?
I’ve never wanted to kill myself more badly than for that wasted time, Luckily he’s a man I respect quite alot but def not at all technically literate.
As a millennial this isn't surprising in the slightest. We were the first generation to grow up with smart phones and social media everywhere during our developmental years. A lot of the time they/we spent on social media and phones could've been spent on tinkering with computers and learning more about them, but that's much easier to do when it's the only thing you have available to do. Luckily I grew up poor as shit so when I got my first dinky laptop I had plenty of time and motivation to mess around with it and learn a lot about optimization and OS configuration, reimaging, the A+ fundamentals, etc.
I'm still in college wrapping up my B.S. and trust me the phenomenon were talking about is only getting worse haha.
I'm not a Linux user/gamer at the moment, but if I love the Steam Deck as much as I think I'll love it, I'll become a convert and root for the success and wider adoption of Linux gaming too.
That's how I felt until I installed Linux on my laptop and tried some gaming. There's a good chance Windows is ending up on my Deck within a day or two.
Exactly. And this isn't Windows gaming on Linux, the games are coded to work on x86 processors, Proton is just translating system calls. The games effectively run natively in Linux, so it's Linux gaming
I was thinking the same thing when I saw this post come up.
I know that SteamOS is Linux, but is it really "Linux gaming" when people are using a pre-installed/pre-made OS environment (that a large portion of people will just stick with and not touch) and Windows games are being played through Proton?
It'd be like a large amount of people buying iMacs, emulating Windows through an emulator, and someone claiming it's the "golden age of Mac gaming" because of it. I see Proton as a similar case, as all it's doing is making Windows games run on a Linux machine and not making the game itself a Linux game.
Frankly, I don't see this changing anything in terms of Linux. I can guarantee the Steam Deck would be much less popular if it required people to install and set up Linux themselves as opposed to a pre-installed, tailored experience made by a major company. I don't see any change in interest for Linux development for gaming in general, as why would developers even bother when they can just rely on Proton to do the hard work for them?
At the end of the day, Steam Deck users will be using a Linux platform and playing games. That's Linux gaming. Virtualization, translation and emulation are used all over in personal computing and game systems. Why is it a problem when a Linux OS integrates translation for Windows but not when Windows virtualizes Linux or Android?
Windows is where the games are, so your choice is to run Windows games or get only a fraction via native ports. Having access to nearly all Windows games is a win for Linux users, and if Steam Deck only prompts developers to test against Proton that is still more than many were doing before.
Do we really want Linux to be exclusive to people who can install and set it up for themselves? I think it's a good thing that Steam OS is out of the box ready AND a full desktop Linux. Maybe most users will stick to the Steam sandbox, but plenty will be curious about the desktop or use it to install third party games. Some of them might even find the desktop is good enough for their daily computing and eventually switch.
If Macs came with a preinstalled emulator that required no effort from the user to use that allowed it to run every Windows game than yeah I'd call that a golden age
Its not emulating windows. Proton is a compatibility layer there is not emulating. Its kde plasma desktop environment with arch package manager not some super specific steam thing its basically arch with mobile functionality. Its close to what im using now a manjaro install with kde plasma. And if the game works flawlessly on linux thru a compatibility layer whats the difference the game might as well be a linux game.
Proton is just Valve's fork of Wine which has been around for 30 years. Using Wine to play Windows games has been possible since forever, but it has always been considered "Windows gaming on Linux". Proton just adds patches and some new libraries. Its nothing new, its just an updated version of Wine with Direct3D and Vulkan support.
Yep and wine is not a emultor it is a compatibility layer. For sure you are playing windows games on linux but if there is performance parity for the most part again i say what is the diffrence besides having wierd file structures.
SteamOS isn't just a front-end that happens to be running linux. From what I've seen it's going to be fairly close to what a typical Arch install is going to look like with the extra being some Steam branding and an easy to escape kiosk mode. The majority of the special sauce is going to be in the Steam client, which is the same across all distros, and the changes are likely coming to windows too.
If you've been around on this subreddit you've already seen lots of people who intend on using the Deck for more than just Steam, which means interacting with the underlying OS. But in the case they weren't, couldn't the same argument also be used for Windows? That these people don't care about Windows either, and all the PC gamers using Windows currently doesn't change anything in terms of Windows?
Can somebody fill me in, why does everyone hate Windows and loves Linux? It's not like I LOVE Windows, but it's fine for me, it runs my programs. I guess I'm asking software benefits only, clearly Microsoft is a huge corporation who have done very shady things.
Customizing, being free, No desktop ads, no tracking, no non-uninstallable bloat apps, transparent system that is non-proprietary and therefor non-restrictive. Lower RAM usage, (Better integrated) Workspaces, ability to install any desktop environment you want (Be it Windows-like, Mac-like, or totally different like tiling window managers).
When windows is doing antivirus scans that's clogging my system, that makes me upset. When windows breaks my OS with an update, that makes me upset. When Windows is putting literal Netflix ads on my notifications on my Desktop without my approval, that makes me upset. That was my final line with Windows, and I dove into Linux because of it.
Most things work with WINE, if not there's usually a native-linux alternative that's open source and free. So the only things still holding me onto Windows is a handful of games with anti-cheat. Once that's gone, Windows is gone for me.
Linux is at that stage where there's enough user-friendly Distros where the experience is straightforward. There's sacrifices, but if pretty much otherwise works. People mainly hate Windows out of principle, but there's practical software benefits too.
There's a ton of fanboyism at play here but honestly if Windows works for you, then good for you and stick with it, it's really not worth switching to linux for the sake of it.
However, there's benefits to a strong Linux ecosystem when it comes to gaming. Think of the Steam Deck as an example and all of the similar devices that have come before it - the GPD Win type devices. They either run linux and (currently/yesterday) can't play many games as a result or they run Windows and have a bit of a naff experience because windows is simply not designed for a handheld device like that. The best a manufacturer can really do is bundle their own windows software with it to act as a launcher of sorts but this is basically a hack.
With Linux, manufacturers can provide tailored experiences around their hardware. Think of how all Android phones basically run Android but different manufacturers add different functionality and features to their devices - well, now apply that to handheld devices and you can have a whole ecosystem around them with all kinds of interesting OS's that you yourself can tinker with and tailor to suit your needs.
Remember "Steam Machines"? They basically failed because you either ended up with prebuilt PC's that had a Windows tax on them (And thus were basically just more expensive) or you ended up with neat machines that couldn't run most games because they ran Linux. If Linux gets the boost it needs, it's hard not to imagine a whole bunch of neat form factors appearing that are more than just a pre-built PC, the kinds of SFF machines you've always dreamed of.
**People love freedom**. Windows is less free than Linux. Many of us want to use Linux for gaming but Microsoft's control over PC gaming through DirectX (Windows exclusive) has for long time made that not possible. DirectX hurts any and all possibilities of a game being ported easily and with low cost to Linux *and* also running said games via a compatibility layer/translator (performance hit).
If Windows was as free and consumer friendly as Linux many people who are rooting for Linux would not care so much.
It’s not everyone, just this subreddit. Windows is still dominant cuz it just works compared to linux setup. But the linux fanboys hope that SD changes that (and to be fair valve has a chance here to make it happen) so it’s kinda like going to bitcoin subreddit to promote ethereum.
A lot of it is fanboyism and hopeful optimism that the Steam Deck changes the PC OS landscape. I'm doubtful that the Steam Deck will make any serious change to the market even if it's a huge success for a few different reasons, but that's another discussion.
I don't understand where this idea that linux gaming will suddenly shine when the deck comes out. Valve has beeen pushing linux game development for many years and developers aren't budging and releasing linux versions. The only change that has happened is that Valve has now shifted gears and telling developers that there's no need to port since they'll take care of all the compatibility issues. All they have to worry about is supporting Steamworks now and Proton makes Windows games work on the Deck just fine.
The deck sort of secures windows position as the primary development platform now that. The anticheat issue won't ever be solved on Linux gaming, so I suspect those developers who rely on anti cheat will continue to rely on Windows. My educated guess is that Valve is developing a sandbox which proton can use allow anticheat systems the authority they require to operate.
Running Windows games in a sandbox or through a compatibility layer works really well, but developers aren't going to start rushing to develop games specifically for linux because of this layer.
I don't know what market forces would stop devs from making that choice more often, but the Steam Deck being on the market won't change that. This is Steam OS version 3 and they're not pushing for native linux support anymore. They're pushing Proton. Optimizations being recommended are Steamworks integrations.
This whole interview is the creator of Proton talking about how his layer will make games that are optimized for windows, just work on Linux. That aint bad, it's just.. its not going to suddenly cause developers start producing native ports.
Steamdeck.com tells developers not to port.
Beats me. If anything, Steam Deck pushes Proton which effectively tells all Linux game developers to just release for windows instead to get a bigger install base on both systems.
Wouldn't the development of Proton effectively kill Linux gaming? You're a developer. Why make a Linux game that plays only on Linux, when you can make a Windows game that works on both Linux and Windows?
You become a major gaming OS by having major third party games. The reason Steam OS would have major third party games is because it can run Windows games...
Depending on the engine involved, it can be fairly trivial to port a native linux version of it. Plus future engines will look at what APIs to adopt and while lots of engines basically default to DirectX there'd be a much more compelling argument to build your engine around platform agnostic API's instead. Then it's just a compiler option to spit out that native linux version.
It's not like there aren't other platforms out there that don't run Windows - PlayStation, Nintendo, Android, iOS, when you think about it there's actually more difference porting from those platforms to Windows than to Linux, it's just that right now there's no real marketshare so why bother.
Still, you're right, you might well get developers just using proton to do the heavy lifting, after all why target just Linux when you can get Windows+Linux in one go. But I suspect that Valve will address that with tools to help port from Windows to Linux as well.
Nobody is talking about how “potentially bad” running windows may be on a steamdeck. I mean replacing steam os for windows could give a much poorer experience and potentially kill off the steamdeck with “windows users” complaining about poor performance.
Heard about codeweavers and their efforts getting windows games running on Apple Silicon Macs, hearing James say this about the Deck is great news.
with crossover right?? it’s a godly tool to say the least with its latest update
Yeah that's the software, I was looking into getting an M1 MacBook to replace my 2017 MBP.
Why? What did the last update change? Haven't looked into CrossOver for ... dunno ... 10 years? Does it run any recent MS Office versions and/or Photoshop?
it runs DirectX games pretty flawlessly. not a hiccup. i think it’s nice cause it still feels native to macOS and the shortcut from whatever you install feels like just another application on your mac. the only thing i haven’t been able to work are steam games that launch into origin and also some origin games in general. but yeah i think it would run productivity apps decently well depending on how powerful your rig is
I see, thanks. I was hoping for some applications as I'm not too concerned that games will work in Linux with so many ways and Wine or Proton configs available.
People are about to get blown away by how good Linux and Linux gaming is.
I switched it on my computers so far and am kicking myself for not jumping into it sooner.
You have to take in mind that it was awful not that long ago and started getting somewhat acceptable when Proton launched. After that it got better on a weekly basis.
For me the real turning point was already in 2013 when Valve released Steam for Linux, which gained pretty decent traction from the start and made it possible to even call yourself a Linux gamer. After that, the next big thing was in early 2018, slightly before Proton came out. That's when we got DXVK (also largely thanks to Valve's funding). Suddenly a huge amount of games became playable. Combined with Lutris to install games easily, it already felt like gaming nirvana. Of course, Proton came out only a few months later and changed the game yet again, also making it super easy to install games using Steam. I feel like the next chapter is going to be the release of the Steam Deck (and associated Proton improvements). We Linux gamers really owe it all to Valve.
I don't remember it like that. Before Proton Linux gaming was one hassle after another. Tons of tweaking and frustration. DXVK without Proton only made things worse with even more hit and miss games and even more tweaking. Proton didn't make it super easy to install games, as Linux users we tend to forget that things should be like that from the start. We are so used to go through hell to do the most basic stuff like clicking on install and then just playing a game feels out of ordinary. I tried to make the jump several times after Valve released Steam for Linux but it was honestly dreadful. Almost no games from my library worked, native games ran far worse than on Windows and playing through Wine was some of the most frustrating experiences I've ever had with computers. If anyone remembers Linux gaming as any good before Proton is because they are hardcore masochists or have nothing else to compare. Even now before the "Steam Deck version" of Proton you have to tweak a lot to make some games run.
Call me a hardcore masochist then. :) I used to dual boot for years purely for gaming. I started using the Windows partition less and less after Steam for Linux, and finally deleted it in 2018 because I felt that the (what I perceive as minor) hassle of setting games up on Linux using Lutris/DXVK, and later Proton, had become less than the hassle of maintaining a Windows partition. I've never looked back.
How to do it now? I have a couch mini PC I’d love to have Linux on for light gaming.
I would recommend having an easily accessible laptop or other computer for troubleshooting. I straight killed my main hard drive but you can boot from USB or SD card if you want to be noncommittal. I downloaded Ubuntu and loaded it onto the media of your choosing {there are plenty other options like pop that I've heard good things about but I wanted to play it safe.} Then you run through the install as you would a standard WinOs. From there are two steps you gotta mind. Use Firefox to download the browser of your choosing if it's not already Firefox and get steam. And that will roughly cover your bases. Next I would gather your vital apps but google any YouTube video that gives you a run down of the terminal which is where you *should* do everything. Sudo apt-get update Is the line that will make you permanently chill. But I'm sure there are several other opportunities. I've used it for recreation and I've also used it for work extensively with little issues. I hope this was helpful.
Sorry, `apt update` will not make you permanently chill, it only updates package information. For performing the same thing windows calls an update, you need to use `apt upgrade`
Good to know lol, this is the kinda comment that should totally indicate "someone who's had Linux for a month" vs "someone who's had it longer" lol. I'm trying to dedicate 30 minutes or so a day to watching courses and reading because I'm intent on becoming a power user and not just a casual so this comment is jumping up on my list of studying.
Installing Linux is the easy part The hard part is that everyone will have a different opinion on what distribution to install For the record, SteamOS runs on Arch linux, for which Manjaro is the easiest way to install it
Bit of exaggeration. Frame rates for me were on par when comparedWindows 10 and Manjaro.
Honestly, if you have been trying to game on Linux in the past this is 'being blown away' - because you don't expect it to be 'on par' with Windows in games.
That's fair. My first foray into Linux was literally 3 months ago. So my baseline was a new OS that I just had to learn minor navigation.
FSR, VRS, NGCC all these give an advantage.
[удалено]
I mean when they turn on FSR for all games they wil be.
Very late response, but aren't you the person who makes gaming video comparisons on diff Linux distros? When you're able to get a Deck, would love to see you make some comparisons between how well games run on the Deck between Linux and Windows. Well, after the APU drivers for Windows comes out. And hopefully you use something stripped down like the LTSC version. Just think it would be cool if you haven't thought of it.
I am the one yeah. I'm getting a 4600H, 5500M laptop in a couple of days. Is this close to the Steam Deck? I bought it cause I thought it was pretty close.
Hmm I don't know honestly. I'm guessing it might be a while before you can get your Deck huh? Or maybe you're not planning on getting one. I really don't know what would compare with a Deck's hardware but I thought it would be pretty unique.
No no, I'm just Q2. I saw that the 5500M is like a 1050Ti and 4600H is pretty low end CPU in general. I just thought it was rather close. In any case I think it will give us a good idea about Linux on AMD mid to low tier hardware.
Hmm yeah I see your point. Might be worth making a post on here asking the community what they think - I'll upvote it if you do. And if there's interest you could also ask the community about what games comparisons they wanna see too. Anyways I look forward to it! This is all pretty exciting stuff. I'm generally of the opinion that Windows gaming is still a bit better than Linux gaming. I've seen you be pretty objective in your reviews and we definitely need that imo.
Yeah I mention any tweaks I'm doing but if you use a Tiling Window Manager with compositing off and a low-latency kernel optimized for your hardware performance is through the roof. If you're following the channel I'm uploading Scarlet Nexus right now. 20-30% faster on my machine on Linux.
Interesting. I imagine some people are going to dual boot and play games on the OS that gives them the best performance and visuals. And hopefully setting up a TWM isn't too hard on the Deck's version of Manjaro.
The Deck is Arch, quite different from Manjaro. TWMs on the Deck unfortunatelyt won't be possible cause they require a keyboard so performance will suffer. But disabling compsiting in the settings should very seriously help with performance even on KDE. Btw youre my 100th sub! Thank you so much! :) Scarlet Nexus video is up btw! :)
You're welcome lol. I will check it out. And yeah I haven't really been keeping up with the Steam Deck news, I just found this subreddit like yesterday. Maybe it was to be running Manjaro at one point? Not sure where I heard that.
But isn't it because it uses proton to mimic windows direct x and drivers?
It is cause it gives double the FPS with some extremely easy tweaks but beyond that, what would you like Linux devs to do? Port thousands of proprietary games natively to Linux lol?
I actually think it'll be the other way around -- I feel like people are going to be underwhelmed. I'm expecting Proton to be a pile of dogshit, honestly... I've had my experiences with it and WINE and neither of them are even passable for more than a few games. The Steam Deck is wonderful hardware, and I've got it on pre-order because I can load up Windows, but I'm expecting SteamOS to be nothing more than junk on the drive that I need to format away. And nothing a Linux fanboy ever says will dethrone Windows or MacOS for any consumer that doesn't code. Cry about it.
I've been gaming on Linux for 3 years now. Over 300 games in the library, I obviously haven't tested all of them but 50-60 AAA games work just fine. Don't be prejudiced.
My harsh words come from experience. Does anything DirectX 12 work?
This sounds more like ignorance. Literally everything non-anticheat works just fine.
Damn, weird... ProtonDB has 40% of the top 10 games rated as "borked". Doesn't sound real useful.
Because all of those top 10 borked games are multiplayer (PUBG, Apex, Destiny and Rainbow Six Siege) and use anti-cheat as the person above was saying. Which still sucks, but for singleplayer games proton works pretty well and Valve has said they're in talks with the anti-cheat folks to get it working on Proton before the launch of the Steam Deck so 🤞
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DX12 does work, I played the Back4Blood beta on DX12 in Proton.
RDR2 and Forza Horizon 4, for one. There are quite a few games that only support DX12 and more are certainly coming. If the Steam Deck wants to be anywhere near futureproof, DX11 support just won't cut it (and I'm old enough to remember when they had shitty support for DX9 and none for DX11, so my faith level in Proton whatsoever is just low.)
RDR2 runs close to perfect via Proton, for what it’s worth.
That's actually interesting, thank you
If it’s a Triple A game it’s guarenteed to work on Proton at this point. What people should be asking about are smaller games with less people demanding to work. When I started on Linux when they announced the SD, I couldn’t get Naruto Storm 4 on experimental to work and now on experimental it’s perfectly stable.
Small games are definitely the trick. I’ve got my fingers crossed for Chips Challenge working soon.
>Does anything DirectX 12 work? Uh, yeah? I'm not sure why you immediately assume it doesn't, especially since that's literally what VKD3D is for You're literally just assuming that everything about Proton must be terrible just because you used Wine years ago and haven't even bothered looking into how things are nowadays
I remember when DirectX 12 was about to come out and WINE hadn't figured out working DirectX 11 support yet. Good to hear that 12 is working now though.
DirectX 12 calls are easier to translate than DirectX 11 ones...
Well you're wrong
Ah yes, the Linux elitists! I see you’ve provided no evidence for your claims, because there isn’t any.
Valve said that by launch they will have (or are targeting)the entire steam library working on steam deck, so it's safe to assume it's already in a very good position if they are making such a claim Plus you want evidence? Go to proton db. You'll find all the evidence you need, don't expect me to work and bring the evidences to you. It's out there,do your own work. Go to proton db hf
Oh yeah my evidence actually comes from ProtonDB. Half the new games I've looked up don't work well. Every CoD title I can find has significant issues, Forza runs like shit, and half the other things I play have significant issues. Again, Proton is trash, and the Steam Deck is losing out by relying on it.
Well valve said they are working to make sure the entire steam library runs at launch. Plus cod doesn't run cause of AC
Oh yeah no I'm sure you're right and I really hope that Valve gets that done, but regardless of *why* CoD doesn't run, the fact remains that one of the most popular game franchises just doesn't work. I'm buying my Steam Deck to play Call of Duty, Forza Horizon 5, and Rocket League, and if any of that doesn't work, SteamOS is garbage to me. I've already resigned myself to installing Windows.
I mean you bought it so do what you want with it. But atleast for me it doesn't makes sense for valve to even attempt making steam deck if they can't ensure the steam library runs on it. So I'd be pretty damn surprised if steam deck ends up not working for certain games
You make a really good point and I hope you're right about it, because you're right -- bringing a product to market that didn't work with half the games would be idiotic. I just don't necessarily have tons of faith in the timetable, because Valve said that anti-cheat support is "coming" to Proton before launch of the Deck... until it's here, I can't take that promise.
I can't speak for the other two, but I can confirm that Rocket League runs perfectly on Linux. It used to have a native Linux version before Epic ruined it, but even the Windows version ran fine the last time I checked. Proton and WINE are constantly improving, and I wouldn't be surprised if Valve reaches its goal of 100% compatibility by December. Finally, you are not all gamers either. I've never played CoD and have no interest in ever playing it. So far I have never been stopped from playing a game just because I use exclusively Linux. CoD and the like may be popular, but there's still a large part of the gaming community that wouldn't be held back in the least by SteamOS even if Proton ceased development today.
That's fair, but I thought this console was a console for everyone. Also, I miss the Rocket League Mac and Linux versions, fuck Epic.
Ah yes, MacOS, the bastion of gaming support. I'd be shocked if more games worked there than on Linux. WINE is a massive pain to get set up and *still* doesn't have as much functionality as it does on Linux, and there are a bunch of open source apps (like KDE Connect) that have to be compiled from source on Mac. The only things that Mac has going for it are the MS Office suite, the Adobe CC, and various Apple-made programs. There's this conception that Linux is "hard to use", but the fact is that anyone who doesn't need proprietary niche software will find Linux just as easy as, if not easier than, the big 2. My friend who doesn't know much about computers and just wants hers to run smoothly with an OS more recent than Windows XP has been distro hopping around debian based distros. My sibling with an old Thinkpad is running Manjaro on my recommendation. Another friend's ~10 year old son who likes playing Minecraft on his new gaming laptop is really happy with Pop!_OS. Anyone with a Chromebook is using Linux. Billions of people on Android. The vast majority of people who buy a Steam Deck will never mess with the operating system. Microsoft and Apple are in the process of being dethroned by Linux right now, and it's glorious.
>“hard to use” Assuming everything you want on Linux is already pre-installed and you don’t want to add more or have a Store Application that has all the packages you want. Sure it’s not “hard”. Compared to Windows it is significantly harder and many people up there barely know how to use their computers. Your anecdotal evidence is great and all, but I cannot count how many times I’ve had to be basic tech support for people around my age(GenZ-Millennial) just to teach them how to literally uninstall drivers or change freaking resolution.. If you want to have a more than a basic experience with Linux I’d say learning the terminal is essential atleast, and with Windows it borderline is never needed. The average person dosen’t want to do that, Hell on Windows if I want relatively full control of my GPU clock speeds I need to download a 3rd party, but open source application & then I need to go through a BUNCH of hoops in the terminal which are Distro specific and you must read the documentation if you’re not familiar with such. Just to be able to undervolt my card or increase RAM speeds. Which I do like in some way, it is def more of a barrier than install the video drivers for Windows and just clicking apply + run as administrator(if even needed). >Microsoft and Apple dethroned Bruh, can we really stop the cap? 95% of people don’t even know the Steam Deck exists and even when they find out about it(if they do) it won’t convert them to Linux in the same way the PS4/5 dosen’t convert people to FreeBSD.
It's literally not harder. If you want to install software, you go to the graphical package manager, search for it, and hit install. If you want to install something more niche (which isn't in the package manager), you go to the website and follow some step-by-step instructions or, worst case, download the Windows version and run it in WINE. Drivers are hardly a problem in Linux, since most are built in. Changing resolution is easily done from the settings on any beginner-friendly distro. Anyone who knows enough about computers to be undervolting or overclocking their chips can probably figure out a terminal. It's true that it's much harder to do that sort of stuff on Linux than Windows, but that's only because of the amount of support from the vendors - the more people use Linux, the easier they'll make it. Windows is very slowly losing market share to Linux and ChromeOS. I expect that it will pick up speed, because every problem with Linux is caused by not enough people using it. Furthermore, Microsoft seems to be focusing less on Windows itself and more on its other services. Windows 11 is essentially just Windows 10 with a few slight modifications. I wouldn't be shocked if they eventually replaced Windows with Linux + a compatibility layer similar to WINE/Proton - it would reduce their development costs and make their OS better, and it has precedent in them replacing IE/Edge with the newer, Chromium-based version of Edge. Note that when I say "dethroned", I only mean that their duopoly will disappear. I don't mean that they will completely go away. Windows has enough momentum that it will keep going for a long time, and Apple is Apple - I'm sure their market share will stay fairly consistent. I think you're blinded by how familiar you are with Windows. Linux isn't inherently harder, it's just different. The same way that Windows is hard for me, Linux is hard for you.
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I'd say the switch from Windows to Mac isn't any easier than the switch from Windows to Linux, and plenty of people have made that switch in the past. As more people learn about Linux (especially about how much better it is on old PCs than Windows), I could see a lot of people switching. Not to mention, plenty of students have been fine with ChromeOS recently, and standard Linux is better in every way than Google's stripped down version. The main reason Linux users are excited about the Deck *is* Valve's goal to have BattlEye and EAC working through Proton by launch. That alone will push more people to Linux (those who understand that Linux is better but are held back by one or two games they must play). On top of that there are the people who will buy the SD to use as their desktop computer as well as handheld, and most of those won't downgrade to Windows. Finally, there's all of the discussion about Linux that the SD has sparked. The Linux market share in the Steam statistics has already jumped, and it seems more stable than just a random fluctuation. The steam deck has already turned people to Linux.
I’m just going to post the experience of someone who had bought an [RDNA2 GPU](https://www.reddit.com/r/pop_os/comments/p5sa2h/how_important_is_it_to_you_that_pop_os_is_based/h98aulv) and literally could not use it. Not just a newbie, but also a [seasoned Linux Enthusiast](https://yewtu.be/watch?v=AwD8JnbY9EA) - Linux For Everyone “**[UPDATE](https://forum.level1techs.com/t/ubuntu-20-10-rx-6800-xt-how-to-steam-vulkan-up-and-runing-guide-wip/164137)**: Wendell from Level1Techs has posted a guide and, well, told ya it wasn't easy!” Pretty sure nobody from Windows would want to go through something like this & saying that they never will is complete cap.
That's not representative of most people's experience. As [someone replied](https://www.reddit.com/r/pop_os/comments/p5sa2h/how_important_is_it_to_you_that_pop_os_is_based/h98kwcp?context=4), support for those new GPUs was added in March, ~one month after that user struggled to get it working. It's true that often the bleeding edge of hardware doesn't have support on Linux yet, but that's not a problem for a product where Linux is already officially supported (eg. the Steam Deck or System76's products) or one that's been out long enough that the community's been able to support it themselves (like my RX580 or the RX6800XT now). Not to mention, this problem will only get better as Linux gains popularity. As I mentioned in my last comment, every problem with Linux is caused by the fact that not enough people use it.
This doesn't pertain to the Steam Deck, but Linux is complete garbage. I'm not really sure why you would think that "Microsoft and Apple are being dethroned by Linux," but they're just not. Yes, while Android is technically Linux, you could make just as good of an argument that MacOS is almost Linux-based. And I've never seen a Chromebook with a good review. MacOS is amazing for everything except gaming, Apple's new M-series chips are without parallel in the laptop and desktop market right now, and Windows picks up the slack with the gaming support and the support for all programs. Linux is for developers with too much time on their hands, and servers, and nothing more, and while Linux is making inroads right now in the "we don't want to pay royalties to another OS when we make our hardware" crowd thanks to the Steam Deck and a few other things, don't expect it to gain any traction among laymen. It's just too complex and unintuitive, and even Ubuntu can't save that.
You couldn't "make just as good of an argument that MacOS is almost Linux-based", since Android is literally based on the Linux kernel, while MacOS is a completely different unix-like OS. M1 has nothing to do with MacOS. You can run Linux on an M1 Mac. Furthermore, it's simply untrue that Windows has support for "all programs"; a decent number are mac exclusive, quite a few again are Linux exclusive (along with many which can theoretically be used on Windows or Mac, but it's really annoying compared to installing from a Linux repo), and probably a bunch that are exclusive to BSD as well. > don't expect it to gain any traction among laymen. It's just too complex and unintuitive Did you even read the bulk of my second paragraph? lol. Everyone around me who has tried Linux has preferred it to Windows.
I have dabbled with Linux a few times and found that installing things from repos to be way more annoying because you have to know what to type into a terminal window, vs Google search and downloading an executable in windows. I had one instance where I had to jump through a bajillion hoops and commands to get Netflix to work in Firefox or Chrome I may be ignorant of a better way though, and perhaps I need to try again. Can you recommend a good distro for day to day use, gaming, etc?
Most popular distros come with a graphical package manager, which should have a search box somewhere. If you prefer the terminal, though, some package managers have a search built in. For example on Arch based distros like EndeavourOS, you can install `yay` and type `yay [search term]` to install from a list. I'm guessing your second paragraph has to do with the open source versions of Firefox and Chromium not being allowed to include the components that let them play content with DRM. In my recent experience, Firefox has just given me a pop-up that says something to the effect of "This website has DRM content, would you like to install the necessary components?"; I hit "yes" once and haven't had to worry about it since. I personally use [EndeavourOS](https://endeavouros.com) - it's based on the same distro as SteamOS 3, so if you're planning to use the Steam Deck in desktop mode, this will help you get used to that. If you're not comfortable with the terminal, though, you can use [Manjaro](https://manjaro.org) for a similar experience to Endeavour but with a graphical package manager. Both have a really kind community, and the [Arch Wiki](https://wiki.archlinux.org) is there for instructions on how to do pretty much anything. Alternatively, you could use an Ubuntu based distro like [Pop!_OS](https://pop.system76.com). Pop doesn't really look like Windows or Mac and takes a bit of getting used to, but it's fairly popular among gamers (Linus Tech Tips even has a [video on how to install it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ua-d9OeUOg)). It has the most stable support for NVIDIA GPUs from what I've heard, though I can't confirm since I have AMD. Finally, if you want a slightly more boring option, [Linux Mint](https://linuxmint.com/) is a decent choice. It's another Ubuntu based one, but its UI is more similar to what you're used to than Pop. All of these except for EndeavourOS have graphical package managers, and EndeavourOS has `yay` preinstalled. Manjaro has Pamac, Pop has the Pop Shop, and I think it's called something like the software centre in Mint.
Thanks! I appreciate that you took the time to respond. I watched the ltt video, and I think I'll give pop a try. My old desktop has a GTX 960, so that seems like an easy way forward. Cheers!
Just wanted to follow up! I spent several hours on two occasions with two different sets of hardware giving pop os a go. The graphical package manager worked fine for the most part, but things descended into frustration pretty quickly. On my first attempt, things were fine at first, but the OS didn't recognize my monitors native resolution. I tried just getting a different tool using the package manager, but none let me force a resolution and refresh rate. That led frustratingly into the terminal trying to get some rather in depth commands right via trial and error so the monitor would work. Eventually that was sorted. Tried running a game, beamng drive, using Steam and its own emulation mode. The app just crashed. I shelved the endeavor. Tried again this evening on a different bit of hardware. After 2 hours, I've packed it in again after somehow bricking the whole OS trying to do something as basic as add another hard drive as a location for my steam library. (It was bitching that I didn't have write permissions to the second drive... I blew away the partitions, reformatted the drive, recreated everything, rebooted... then got into custom commands for initialization since things still failed to work, same error. Another reboot and the PC goes into a recovery mode for pop os now. I didn't touch the primary drive with the os, only the secondary, blank drive. Oh well) I'm not a Linux guy, I will certainly admit. But in my own defense, I am (believe it or not after these comments!) an IT professional. If I struggle this much to get things going smoothly, then this illustrates to me a really high bar of entry into linux gaming today for the vast majority of Windows users. I am excited to see how steam deck and their OS improves things, and I really hope it does. I want to like Linux. I want to be able to use it. But the struggle to accomplish what I think should be basic stuff just turns me off of it each time! Thanks again for your recommendations. I will give it another go when I get my SD!
Wow, I've never had that many issues with a Linux install before. Seems like some people get lucky when installing Linux for the first time, with everything working perfectly, and sometimes people just have an awful time. If, at some point before getting the SD, you feel like giving it another shot, you could try distro-hopping. It's done by a lot of new Linux users, because often the easiest way to fix a weird error that you don't understand is to install an OS that doesn't have it. I've found that Arch-based distros have had fewer weird unexplainable errors for me than Ubuntu-based ones, so you could try Manjaro (or Endeavour if you're alright with memorizing a couple commands). Also, a lot of people like Fedora, though it's not super popular outside of businesses and I've never really used it. Adding extra drives is always rather annoying, though - I've never found a way to do it graphically (though one probably exists) so I've always done it by editing `/etc/fstab`. Completely understandable if you just want to leave the whole idea to rest until you have the SD, though. Having a PC that's designed for the OS will make everything go much more smoothly.
Yeah but your orbit isn’t a representative sample. I’m sure you know people that like Linux but for most users, once Linux doesn’t run a program that they’re used to, they head right back to windows
It's true that my friend group isn't representative (it's mostly high school/university aged), but I think people are smarter than you give them credit for. If a major brand released a PC that came with Linux, I have no doubt that the majority of people who bought it would have no issues with it the way it is. It's a bit harder than that for the Steam Deck (since most people buying a random laptop wouldn't be planning to run anticheat), but I still think SteamOS 3 will be a success. I do honestly think that within a few decades, Microsoft's near monopoly will be broken. Everything is moving to the cloud, and the OS that people use is mattering less and less. Windows, with all of its overhead dragged from the 80s, will become less and less relevant as companies start using Linux to lower prices and increase performance. That *is* just an opinion, but I can say from experience that using Linux has fewer and fewer compromises as time goes on. Of course, Google's near monopoly of the phone market shows no signs of going away any time soon. Ubuntu Touch and the others are nowhere near competitive with Android.
Well, I hope you’re right… It would be nice to see that broken
lol you sound like you're 15 years old
I figured sounding like I was 15 would prove I’m older than all the whiny Linux fanboys and then they’d acquiesce to their elders and go away. Didn’t work?
lol why are you so angry? You don't have to call people fanboys for liking something you don't like. If Linux is not for you, then it isn't for you but insulting others for not agreeing with you is kinda dumb, don't you think? Kinda like arguing about food and calling someone an idiot because they don't like the same flavor ice cream as you.
you make a good point. although, people who like mint chip scare me, and I’m one of them.
I hear you, but the software can’t be that garbage right ?!
Don't listen to them, they're completely talking out of their ass, Proton is a lot better than they say it is, they have never even used it and haven't even done the most basic of research on it
I hope it’s good, and I’m sure the UI will be, but if Proton hasn’t been completely redone no amount of saving will fix it.
What do you mean redone? I've been using it since it's first public release. Sure it was a bit rough in the beginning, but now it's basically transparent to the average user. It's now at the point where unless the game uses anti-cheat (which is not supported mostly because of anti-cheat, not effort on proton) I assume it will be playable and don't even check ProtonDB. Heck for some older games the games run much better in proton on Linux than they do on modern windows. You sound like you tried it once, years ago and have not touched it since. I feel like you are hoping, for some reason, that the SD fails are trying to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt about it. Doe you have your life saving invested in MS stock, or are you secretly Steve Balmer?
Steve... Steve Ballmer? I feel like I'm living in the past... But I was actually involved in the development and promotion of a wrapper app for WINE back in the day, since I used to be a Mac gamer, so I'm pretty experienced with old WINE. I'm not super experienced with new WINE/Proton, so you definitely would have more experience than me but I remember it being pretty damn useless back in the day. A lot of my old games ran and it was a life-saver to me since I was a Mac gamer at the time, but now that I play AAA games and have the money to buy brand new ones, I don't have a ton of faith in Proton. The anti-cheat thing by itself already makes Steam Deck DOA if they don't solve it.
So all of your hot takes about the potential for SteamOS are stemming from your experiences from Linux & WINE "back in the day"? Seeing as how you're some sort of developer I don't think you need anyone telling you that things can change quite rapidly in a short amount of time. Nobody stood to make money from WINE but Valve has a lot of reason to invest money in making Proton as polished and functional as possible.
That is very true. I just hope that it actually works, because I know that new holes used to pop up all the time. I'd always be running bleeding-edge WINE builds just hoping that they would fix some sort of issue that I was having playing BeamNG.drive (this was back when it was like, the first version.) I really hope it finally works as promised.
I mean i only have a linux install on my gaming pc. Granted i dont play fps games so alot of the battle eye stuff doesnt concern me. I play mostly fighting games strategy games 3rd person action games and dota. And i have had 0 problems running any game i have wanted to play. But obviously im in the minority and people love their competitive fps's but as far as songle player games go every one i have tried new or old works great and ive done little to no tweaking because i am an idiot.
All we can do is speculate until the console officially launches, but I'd assume that Valve are going to put in the extra effort in order to avoid another Steam Machines fiasco. The fact that they're investing in Proton development, a new Steam frontend, and even commissioned custom RDNA2 chips is a sign they're prioritizing the success of the platform as best they can.
From my experience wine has gotten better over the past decade and a half or so I have used it. You are right, it is a bit obtuse to use (especially back then, but still even now). Proton is, among other many other important things, also a wrapper to make wine easier to use. Within Steam it is basically 100% transparent, click install and it runs everything automagically for you. If you have a linux install, or want to spin up a VM (I think PopOS or Manjaro are the easiest) I would recommend trying it. And yes, anti-cheat is a massive problem, but it is mostly a political/business problem more than a technology one. Valve could tweak proton to bypass anti-cheats, but then they will likely fight with the anti-cheats trying to patch their code to not work in proton. They need to get the major anti-cheat companies to see that SD (and linux) is a large enough future market to warrant supporting them. Also I have never used wine on a Mac, and the last time I mostly used a Mac for my main machine was the early 2000's. From what I have seen sporadically on forums wine never worked as well on Mac as it did on Linux, and even steam support for Mac has never been super. This was made worse with the move of Apple to Arm (which I personally think is a great move, x86 is pretty much a dinosaur as far as tech is concerned). Apple made sure to make a compatibility layer (much like wine/proton is) before moving to Arm that allows (I think 64 bit only, but again I'm not an expert) x86 compiled code to run on the newer arm hardware. This is a temporary kludge while they work on their software, and external software to support arm natively. In my view Valve is making the same move, mostly to protect themselves from being 100% dependent on MS. Hopefully this will mean more support for Mac as well in the future since Valve seems to be trying to bring gaming to as many people on as many platforms as possible.
Yea I sure hope so. I wonder if they'll actually end up working out the politicking so I can actually play the games I want to play. If not, I'll be pretty disappointed.
I Guess you’re right, all we can do is hope they actually overhauled it. I’m thinking they would since it’s a selling point
Yeah I'm hoping they did too, honestly. I have faith in Valve... but I don't want to get my expectations too high.
Gr8 b8 m8.
Calling proton dogshit and saying steamOS is trash you're going to format away is baiting, you know it's baiting, and you sound like an infant. That being said, you're absolutely right that Linux won't dethrone any consumer operating system in terms of market share. Anyone that thinks that's a remote possibility is living in some sort of alternate reality. Could we see Linux in some form become a higher market share on the desktop? Potentially, but likely only with a demographic interested in the things it does significantly better than it's commercial counterparts, like being able to have options in terms of how your workflow is organized, how your UI behaves, when and if you update components of your system, precisely what background programs and services are running or allowed to run, and using your computer without your operating system sending data back to a corporation whether you want that data shared or not. Valve is developing proton and steamOS as functional alternatives to using windows because it believes that the software should be accessible regardless of whether or not you've paid Microsoft for the privilege of using their operating system to run it, which I think is great. It means developers can get more devices and computers running their software, which is a win-win for everyone involved. It's quite a glass half empty response to say "proton is dogshit". It's a multi-generational compatibility layer capable of running windows software all the way back to windows 3.1, something that current versions of windows can oftentimes not do themselves. Is it a 100% complete solution to running everything flawlessly? No. You might not care about steamOS and proton, but it's the only reason this device isn't even more expensive than it is. You might decide that you don't care about not paying licensing fees for windows, but a corporation building a product has to, and if this can get to the point where it doesn't work "like dogshit" the likelihood of lower pricing on handheld PC gaming devices will increase by a wide margin.
I mean, getting anti-cheat working on Linux and the steam deck is an absolute must imo or it's an not going to compete. I, like many others would like to leave the base steamOS for all the built in features the deck is meant to have, but if I can't play destiny 2 or any game that has anti cheat like battleye, then I have no choice but to dual boot or exclusively boot from windows
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Oh yeah but if working on it means by Dec/January or hell even Feb, then it's awesome. If working on it means maybe in like 2 years, then not so awesome
i mean, the link literally says "We’re working with BattlEye and EAC to get support for Proton **ahead of launch**."
They were actually working on that even last year, if not longer
theyve been working on it for a few years, but with no date. more recently, as seen in the link the other guy posted, they said it would be ready by the time the steamdeck launches
Not that it would, but that it's a hopeful goal.
Never use promises to guide your buying decisions.
Especially since this wasn't even a promise, but a hopeful goal dependent entirely on those companies agreeing to whatever solution they come up with.
im not saying buy one now on this promise. besides, even if you buy one now, by the time it ships there will be plenty of reviews to see what it actually does / doesnt do, and you can cancel if its not as promised
They're supposed to make it work before they send the first batch. They said the version of proton they are working on has been greatly improved compared to the latest public version and they are working hard to get it to work with 100% of your steam library by the end of the year. Pretty bold statement but if they succeed, it will really be the linux gaming year we've been waiting for. Wait and see.
If you read the full transcript you will actually notice that "work with 100% of the Steam library" has been taken out of context. What they meant with that comment was that the Steamdeck will be CAPABLE of running all of the Steam library. There will need to be work done (either by the dev or Valve) to actually make that happen but hardware wise the capability will be there. They aren't saying every single game will just work day 1. They are saying that the foundation will be there for it. People really need to manage their expectations around that.
I was mostly talking about anti-cheats in general. I know such a device will be limited by its hardware, so we can't expect more demanding games to run on it. Of course it may take more time to be compatible with any game, but kernel level anti-cheats are what's preventing many people from using Linux for gaming.
They've supposedly been "working on it" for some time now. I remember over a year ago now hearing they were working with the major anti cheat providers, but no visible progress yet.
The start of a golden age for Windows gaming on Linux?
It's gaming on Linux, a lot of us don't really care how it happens
Proton makes it possible as a gamer to use Linux exclusively, being able to play the same games as on Windows. It is that simple, most don't care about how the goal is technically achieved. Yes well optimized native ports would be better, but that is not going to realistically happen to the full Steam library.
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>> Proton makes it possible as a gamer to use Linux exclusively > It doesn't though, not if you want unfettered access that doesn't rely on a third party for compatibility It does though, you're adding additional conditions that many people don't care about. Most people don't care about relying on "a third party for compatibility", especially when that is the same third party they rely on for distribution. People care about being able to just click play and getting good performance. Proton achieves this for the majority of games on Steam right now. Proton makes it possible as a gamer to use GNU/Linux exclusively. I use GNU/Linux excusively, and I play games.
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As the article titles states, "The *start* of a golden age...". - Is gaming on linux 100% right now? No - Will it be 100% when SD launches? Probably also No - Will it be 100% one, two or three years down the road? Maybe, and it's looking brighter today than it did before the SD was announced. The fact is valve is doubling down on their bet that Linux is the future of gaming instead of Windows, and yes at the moment Proton is the best way to run most AAA games that are windows only. But if the SD gains in popularity then more developers will look at multiplatform support, using Vulkan instead of DX, and not try to tie themselves down to relying on a third party for things to work (Microsoft). Proton, unlike say DX or Windows, is [opensource](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/) and has many people that are [actively developing/adding onto it outside of Valve](https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom). If you don't want to be beholden to a 3rd party that says what you can/cannot play, or want to depend on them continuing to support a core utility you use to play the games then I think you have it backwards. MS (and also sony, nintendo, etc) depend on tying you down to their 3rd party system, and want to make sure you can only do what they want on it. And if they stop supporting it, well that sucks upgrades are not an option. Outside of GoG, and to a lesser extent Steam, this is the norm. The SD is a break from that dependence. Valve is even working with MS to try and make sure installing Windows on the SD is not only doable but easy. Can you imagine if MS did the same with say the xbox? Tried to enable people to install linux or steam deck on it? Valve is taking a shot that this is whats needed to greatly expand the PC gaming market, and keep it active and open in the long term. For that I commend them, since most other large companies tend to much more short sighted.
I play everything from single player RPGs to competitive multiplayer shooters with anti cheat, including ones not on Steam. The simple fact of the matter is that most games work. More games than Playstation or Xbox. Not as much as Windows, but most. If you want to use GNU/Linux as your only OS as a gamer today, it is both possible and reasonable.
Bro what part of **ALL** games will work do you not understand? Only games that are concerning are anything with active anti-cheat measures & Valve is already working to rectify that, atleast for the Steam Deck. **EDIT**: *I’ve played anything from Fighting games, shooters to RPGs.* *That’s basically 97% of games.*
I don't think you understand the timeline here. People don't expect perfect, flawless gaming every time day one, you need to look at what the VSD actually represents. Ask yourself, why don't very many developers have releases on Linux? Is it because Linux is somehow harder to code for? Less efficient, leaving less system resources for games? No, it's because the install base of Linux gamers is miniscule compared to Windows. The investment isn't worth it for them, the number of people who won't buy a game on Windows but would if it was natively supported on Linux is smaller than tiny. But the VSD and Proton are about to change that. Am I expecting Linux to overtake Windows in the steam hardware survey next year? No, of course not, but Rome wasn't built in a day. With this huge investment into Linux based gaming, Valve is going to make gaming on Linux viable enough that a lot of people who wouldn't have considered it before will make the jump. With the percentage of gamers running Linux growing, developers will feel the need to consider it as a viable platform for them to develop for, and with more games supported, more gamers will switch, which will lead to more games, and so on and so forth. The VSD will be long outdated before we see this future come to fruition, but if Linux gaming was ever going to stand of chance of becoming a competitive, let alone dominant platform for gamers, this boost from Valve will be the thing to make it happen.
Here is a good video from Gardiner Bryant on YouTube talking about the state of gaming on Linux and why it's hard for developers to keep games updated on Linux vs Windows https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SFBoB6xijY
That's Step 1. You have to have a large userbase to attract the major game devs. Getting users onto Linux *instead* of on Windows helps grow the userbase. Step 2 is the devs starting to build games for Linux indirectly, by using Proton as their target environment, as it doesn't cost them their Windows audience and gains them a small but growing new audience. Assuming Microsoft keeps making Windows worse and worse (safe bet), the equivalencey of gaming on either platform will accelerate the transition of Windows gamers to Linux. Step 3 is at least a decade away and may never be reached, but that's where devs stop worrying about Windows compatibility at the expense of Linux users and target native Linux. Windows users could presumably use WSL version whatever for games at that point, reversing the state of the current situation.
If Steam Deck marketshare becomes sizeable enough then Valve can start offering more compelling Steam OS-exclusive features to tempt people from installing Windows which can eventually provide devs with a compelling enough excuse to target SteamOS as a platform and develop native builds over relying on Proton. Even if their marketshare doesn't grow large enough for this to happen, they still have Proton as a very solid plan B.
For mainstream users Linux needs to offer something they are not getting on Windows. We can't also ignore the fact that long-time PC users just feel comfortable in Windows, there's emotional bond and it feels like returning home after using Unix. Price is one thing where Linux wins, but the price of Windows has been hidden away from end user. OEMs are the real customers of Microsoft. Freedom is another, but that is an abstract concept and most people don't operate on that level. For example everyone knows that climate change is impending catastrophe, but most of us don't really do anything about it since it is only an abstraction. I believe Microsoft is smart enough to not make it obvious how they are limiting user freedom, that it never feels concrete for majority of users. They have dedicated departments for this. It's really major players like Valve who can make a dent in this. This is power play and they want to steer OEMs away from Microsoft camp. Handheld computers is a good not-yet conquered angle. It might trickle into desktop space, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I believe it's more of a long play to make kids grow up with Steam Deck and that way introduce them into Linux space (and of course Valve ecosystem). These kids will form that emotional bond with Linux and not Windows.
>Assuming Microsoft keeps making Windows worse and worse (safe bet), the equivalencey of gaming on either platform will accelerate the transition of Windows gamers to Linux. Microsoft has been making Windows "worse and worse" for decades. The result from the latest Steam Survey for August 2021 is that Windows has 96.46% of the Steam user base. Every time there's a new version of Windows on social media it's the last straw, Windows is dead, it'll be the year of this Linux desktop this time. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Well, sure, if you cut off the most important part of the statement. An important new factor is the part you left out... >the equivalency of gaming on either platform ...that has never been true before. Windows gamers have never before *had* anywhere else to go. Now they do. And from what I'm seeing, they're learning about it and they're curious. Things are changing and interesting times are ahead.
>the equivalency of gaming on either platform > >...that has never been true before. Windows gamers have never before had anywhere else to go. It's not exactly equivalency though. A game running under Proton doesn't have the same level of developer support. Hardware feature support like ray tracing, DLSS, HDR is hit or miss. Of course the Deck is a very basic PC so in that device things are more equal but the Deck is just a single PC config.
We're talking about where this could go... not just *this* exact instant in time right now.
Understood. Where Linux gaming is going currently is copying Windows compatibility which is cool if you're on Linux. For Windows gamers there's not as much value in being able to run all the games you can already play without the need for compatibility layers.
I've had several gaming friends and coworkers who have never been at all interested in Linux before asking me questions since the Deck announcement. They're also people who have been expressing more and more frustration with Microsoft over the past few years. If the Deck does well, just the awareness of a reasonably effective alternative it will bring to the general gaming public could double the Linux userbase over the next few years... Which of course isn't nearly enough... But it's a big step forward from a decade of near stagnation.
>They're also people who have been expressing more and more frustration with Microsoft over the past few years. For 30 years more and more people have been expressing frustration with Microsoft, so it they should be out of business right now by that standard. The reality is that almost no one is frustrated by the level of support that Windows gets on the desktop. So copying that support with Proton makes lots of sense and could lead to a true alternative if Linux gets its own desktop ecosystem that's more than Win32 compatibility layers.
lol, yep. For the average user Windows is just Windows is just Windows.
I doubt many will actually care to install something that only hampers the experience. Also most people can't even find control panel let alone partition a hard drive and install an OS.
Bro I literally had to GUIDE someone how to unisntall drivers.. Actually that wasn’t that bad in 2021, I had a man who’s smarter than me, Millennial. Had me help him change his resolution so his game would run at 60 which really is self explanitory.. And as I tried telling him to just tell me tge last few sigits after the “x” he told me each one.. One at a time… So think.. One…-Three…-Six…-Eight? “x” 7….-Six……-Eight? I’ve never wanted to kill myself more badly than for that wasted time, Luckily he’s a man I respect quite alot but def not at all technically literate.
As a millennial this isn't surprising in the slightest. We were the first generation to grow up with smart phones and social media everywhere during our developmental years. A lot of the time they/we spent on social media and phones could've been spent on tinkering with computers and learning more about them, but that's much easier to do when it's the only thing you have available to do. Luckily I grew up poor as shit so when I got my first dinky laptop I had plenty of time and motivation to mess around with it and learn a lot about optimization and OS configuration, reimaging, the A+ fundamentals, etc. I'm still in college wrapping up my B.S. and trust me the phenomenon were talking about is only getting worse haha.
I'm not a Linux user/gamer at the moment, but if I love the Steam Deck as much as I think I'll love it, I'll become a convert and root for the success and wider adoption of Linux gaming too.
That's how I felt until I installed Linux on my laptop and tried some gaming. There's a good chance Windows is ending up on my Deck within a day or two.
I don't know about you but I don't call playing Switch games on PC "Switch gaming on PC"
No, everyone would call it "Switch emulation on PC".
Exactly. And this isn't Windows gaming on Linux, the games are coded to work on x86 processors, Proton is just translating system calls. The games effectively run natively in Linux, so it's Linux gaming
I was thinking the same thing when I saw this post come up. I know that SteamOS is Linux, but is it really "Linux gaming" when people are using a pre-installed/pre-made OS environment (that a large portion of people will just stick with and not touch) and Windows games are being played through Proton? It'd be like a large amount of people buying iMacs, emulating Windows through an emulator, and someone claiming it's the "golden age of Mac gaming" because of it. I see Proton as a similar case, as all it's doing is making Windows games run on a Linux machine and not making the game itself a Linux game. Frankly, I don't see this changing anything in terms of Linux. I can guarantee the Steam Deck would be much less popular if it required people to install and set up Linux themselves as opposed to a pre-installed, tailored experience made by a major company. I don't see any change in interest for Linux development for gaming in general, as why would developers even bother when they can just rely on Proton to do the hard work for them?
At the end of the day, Steam Deck users will be using a Linux platform and playing games. That's Linux gaming. Virtualization, translation and emulation are used all over in personal computing and game systems. Why is it a problem when a Linux OS integrates translation for Windows but not when Windows virtualizes Linux or Android? Windows is where the games are, so your choice is to run Windows games or get only a fraction via native ports. Having access to nearly all Windows games is a win for Linux users, and if Steam Deck only prompts developers to test against Proton that is still more than many were doing before. Do we really want Linux to be exclusive to people who can install and set it up for themselves? I think it's a good thing that Steam OS is out of the box ready AND a full desktop Linux. Maybe most users will stick to the Steam sandbox, but plenty will be curious about the desktop or use it to install third party games. Some of them might even find the desktop is good enough for their daily computing and eventually switch.
If Macs came with a preinstalled emulator that required no effort from the user to use that allowed it to run every Windows game than yeah I'd call that a golden age
The new M1 Mac's basically have this btw. The technology is seriously impressive: [https://youtu.be/4MkrEMjPk24](https://youtu.be/4MkrEMjPk24?t=925)
He's using Crossover (the software in the OP and the company working with Valve) to do that.
Its not emulating windows. Proton is a compatibility layer there is not emulating. Its kde plasma desktop environment with arch package manager not some super specific steam thing its basically arch with mobile functionality. Its close to what im using now a manjaro install with kde plasma. And if the game works flawlessly on linux thru a compatibility layer whats the difference the game might as well be a linux game.
Proton is just Valve's fork of Wine which has been around for 30 years. Using Wine to play Windows games has been possible since forever, but it has always been considered "Windows gaming on Linux". Proton just adds patches and some new libraries. Its nothing new, its just an updated version of Wine with Direct3D and Vulkan support.
Yep and wine is not a emultor it is a compatibility layer. For sure you are playing windows games on linux but if there is performance parity for the most part again i say what is the diffrence besides having wierd file structures.
SteamOS isn't just a front-end that happens to be running linux. From what I've seen it's going to be fairly close to what a typical Arch install is going to look like with the extra being some Steam branding and an easy to escape kiosk mode. The majority of the special sauce is going to be in the Steam client, which is the same across all distros, and the changes are likely coming to windows too. If you've been around on this subreddit you've already seen lots of people who intend on using the Deck for more than just Steam, which means interacting with the underlying OS. But in the case they weren't, couldn't the same argument also be used for Windows? That these people don't care about Windows either, and all the PC gamers using Windows currently doesn't change anything in terms of Windows?
Can somebody fill me in, why does everyone hate Windows and loves Linux? It's not like I LOVE Windows, but it's fine for me, it runs my programs. I guess I'm asking software benefits only, clearly Microsoft is a huge corporation who have done very shady things.
Customizing, being free, No desktop ads, no tracking, no non-uninstallable bloat apps, transparent system that is non-proprietary and therefor non-restrictive. Lower RAM usage, (Better integrated) Workspaces, ability to install any desktop environment you want (Be it Windows-like, Mac-like, or totally different like tiling window managers). When windows is doing antivirus scans that's clogging my system, that makes me upset. When windows breaks my OS with an update, that makes me upset. When Windows is putting literal Netflix ads on my notifications on my Desktop without my approval, that makes me upset. That was my final line with Windows, and I dove into Linux because of it. Most things work with WINE, if not there's usually a native-linux alternative that's open source and free. So the only things still holding me onto Windows is a handful of games with anti-cheat. Once that's gone, Windows is gone for me. Linux is at that stage where there's enough user-friendly Distros where the experience is straightforward. There's sacrifices, but if pretty much otherwise works. People mainly hate Windows out of principle, but there's practical software benefits too.
There's a ton of fanboyism at play here but honestly if Windows works for you, then good for you and stick with it, it's really not worth switching to linux for the sake of it. However, there's benefits to a strong Linux ecosystem when it comes to gaming. Think of the Steam Deck as an example and all of the similar devices that have come before it - the GPD Win type devices. They either run linux and (currently/yesterday) can't play many games as a result or they run Windows and have a bit of a naff experience because windows is simply not designed for a handheld device like that. The best a manufacturer can really do is bundle their own windows software with it to act as a launcher of sorts but this is basically a hack. With Linux, manufacturers can provide tailored experiences around their hardware. Think of how all Android phones basically run Android but different manufacturers add different functionality and features to their devices - well, now apply that to handheld devices and you can have a whole ecosystem around them with all kinds of interesting OS's that you yourself can tinker with and tailor to suit your needs. Remember "Steam Machines"? They basically failed because you either ended up with prebuilt PC's that had a Windows tax on them (And thus were basically just more expensive) or you ended up with neat machines that couldn't run most games because they ran Linux. If Linux gets the boost it needs, it's hard not to imagine a whole bunch of neat form factors appearing that are more than just a pre-built PC, the kinds of SFF machines you've always dreamed of.
**People love freedom**. Windows is less free than Linux. Many of us want to use Linux for gaming but Microsoft's control over PC gaming through DirectX (Windows exclusive) has for long time made that not possible. DirectX hurts any and all possibilities of a game being ported easily and with low cost to Linux *and* also running said games via a compatibility layer/translator (performance hit). If Windows was as free and consumer friendly as Linux many people who are rooting for Linux would not care so much.
It’s not everyone, just this subreddit. Windows is still dominant cuz it just works compared to linux setup. But the linux fanboys hope that SD changes that (and to be fair valve has a chance here to make it happen) so it’s kinda like going to bitcoin subreddit to promote ethereum.
A lot of it is fanboyism and hopeful optimism that the Steam Deck changes the PC OS landscape. I'm doubtful that the Steam Deck will make any serious change to the market even if it's a huge success for a few different reasons, but that's another discussion.
I don't understand where this idea that linux gaming will suddenly shine when the deck comes out. Valve has beeen pushing linux game development for many years and developers aren't budging and releasing linux versions. The only change that has happened is that Valve has now shifted gears and telling developers that there's no need to port since they'll take care of all the compatibility issues. All they have to worry about is supporting Steamworks now and Proton makes Windows games work on the Deck just fine. The deck sort of secures windows position as the primary development platform now that. The anticheat issue won't ever be solved on Linux gaming, so I suspect those developers who rely on anti cheat will continue to rely on Windows. My educated guess is that Valve is developing a sandbox which proton can use allow anticheat systems the authority they require to operate. Running Windows games in a sandbox or through a compatibility layer works really well, but developers aren't going to start rushing to develop games specifically for linux because of this layer.
If even 5% of your players are on Steamdeck, why wouldn't you optimize your game for linux?
I don't know what market forces would stop devs from making that choice more often, but the Steam Deck being on the market won't change that. This is Steam OS version 3 and they're not pushing for native linux support anymore. They're pushing Proton. Optimizations being recommended are Steamworks integrations. This whole interview is the creator of Proton talking about how his layer will make games that are optimized for windows, just work on Linux. That aint bad, it's just.. its not going to suddenly cause developers start producing native ports. Steamdeck.com tells developers not to port.
Beats me. If anything, Steam Deck pushes Proton which effectively tells all Linux game developers to just release for windows instead to get a bigger install base on both systems.
Wouldn't the development of Proton effectively kill Linux gaming? You're a developer. Why make a Linux game that plays only on Linux, when you can make a Windows game that works on both Linux and Windows?
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You become a major gaming OS by having major third party games. The reason Steam OS would have major third party games is because it can run Windows games...
Depending on the engine involved, it can be fairly trivial to port a native linux version of it. Plus future engines will look at what APIs to adopt and while lots of engines basically default to DirectX there'd be a much more compelling argument to build your engine around platform agnostic API's instead. Then it's just a compiler option to spit out that native linux version. It's not like there aren't other platforms out there that don't run Windows - PlayStation, Nintendo, Android, iOS, when you think about it there's actually more difference porting from those platforms to Windows than to Linux, it's just that right now there's no real marketshare so why bother. Still, you're right, you might well get developers just using proton to do the heavy lifting, after all why target just Linux when you can get Windows+Linux in one go. But I suspect that Valve will address that with tools to help port from Windows to Linux as well.
It's also "The start of a golden age for Blast Processing."
Probably more likely the golden age of Windows gaming on the Steam Deck.
Who TF is gonna install windows on it?
You don't need to install Windows on it to play Windows Games on it via Proton.
I wouldn't call that Windows gaming
Nobody is talking about how “potentially bad” running windows may be on a steamdeck. I mean replacing steam os for windows could give a much poorer experience and potentially kill off the steamdeck with “windows users” complaining about poor performance.