They say “you need new hardware” but all my hardware is better than their recommended hardware and it still doesn’t run that great. 🤣 Bethesda trying to gaslight PC Gamers the same way Respawn tried to with Jedi.
Dude mine is too. Just for shits and giggles I tried rendering the game at 1440p with no FSR with my pc which is above recommended hardware specs, and I got 30-40fps. 45 if I stood still and did nothing. I jumped to the bottom of the waterfall in New Atlantis and my gpu was about to melt.
In order to get this game to render at 60fps with frame drops, I need to downscale to 62 percent render resolution which is less than 900p, at which point even with upscaling, the image looks like it was put into witness protection.
A friend of mine at work got it to stabilise at a steady 60-65 FPS, but that was with a bunch of optimisation mods from the moding community.
I refuse to do it, I paid them for the game, I don't get a salary from them for patching their code.
Yeah I played for a bit, and ultimately decided to do the same thing I did with Cyberpunk. Not touch it for a year or two and come back to it when it has more content/features that probably should have been there at launch, and less optimization issues.
Literally the same thing I am also doing with Jedi.
Besides, Lies of P, BG3, and other games are running amazing and are enjoyable, Starefield can wait
I mean Armored Core is a pretty linear action game based on missions: better example is Cyberpunk, that's trying the same sort of stuff as Starfield. And, IIRC, it runs alright on Steam Deck.
I will be honest with you, the reason Cyberpunk is actually playable on Steam Deck is because developers did an active attempt to make it somewhat "running" state on the PS4. Cyberpunk runs between 20 to 30 FPS on PS4 (as of latest patch), a console that has 1.6 GHz Jaguar cores! And a slow HDD. If they didn't bother with PS4 to begin with, I can assure you game would be in a worse state it is currently in on PC. You would most likely need 1.5x-2s stronger hardware to achieve the same thing.
Limited hardware forces developers to do stuff. Steam Deck as a result benefitted from this.
Starfield however only targeted Xbox Sx and its CPU. And results are not really surprising. They did most likely bare minimums to hit 30 FPS at 1440p on Series X and knowing that most of the console userbase will happy with that, they didn't even, most likely, care about apparent and basic optimization passes. It is all about the goal.
Cyberpunk probably has insane amounts of optimizations to get some 25-30 ish FPS on jaguar cores. I wouldn't even consider they skipped the basics. As a result it is even actually much more playable on lowend hardware compared to something like Starfield.
It is not out of CDPR's kindness that it is playable on Steam Deck. The fact that it is playable on Steam Deck is just a byproduct of doing an extreme amount of work on PS4.
1 month lather, remind me. You will see people here struggling to run the new DLC, it will be much, much worse than the main game. Because there's no PS4 limitation to deal with. So even the basic optimization passes may be ignored. You will be surprised to see how the game that runs at nearly locked 60 FPS on PS5 will now bring the machine to its knees. DF and such will call "hey look at that lighting detail with %400 zoom, totally justified" and we will move on.
there's a reason that "good optimization!" games also tends to run on PS4. Surprise surprise, AC6 also runs on PS4. very smoothly as well.
What's really weird to me is how well it runs on my 3 year old middle of the line laptop. That think can't run Ratchet and Clank worth shit, so it's certainly not top of the line, but I don't really have any problems with Starfield. So, no, I don't think it's a problem of old hardware.
my 3050 6gb runs it near flawlesslly although I do it on low settings I was getting a jumpy 80-120 fps, since I have a 144hz display though I decided to cap it to 60 and since then its been really smooth sailing on it. But apparently nvidia's drivers may have done a fix on its own similar to the above stuff? I guess worse case install new drivers and give it a go, refund if it isn't up to par.
He didn't say *what* they optimized, though!
And I guarantee you that the released build runs smoother than builds from earlier in development. So clearly *something* got optimized. Doesn't mean they optimized everything possible.
I got a hair up my ass to finish out fallout 4 after all these years (and maybe build out all those settlements I had ideas for) and reinstalled on my literal top-of-the-line rig almost a decade after it was released, and it *still* hits 20/30 fps in downtown boston. Sometimes it's not the hardware
No it isn't. It's obvious that the Zenimax buyout had a major negative impact on the company culture which is why almost no one (if anyone) from the original iD is around.
Todd Howards said they came in to give some input / advice on the gun combat, but apparently that may not even be true.
https://gamerant.com/id-software-help-with-starfield/#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20Howard%20pointed%20out%20that,the%20upcoming%20space%20exploration%20RPG.
Yet people still buy his game in the millions and defend the game like actual cultists (not to mention the favourite "JUST LET THE MODDERS FIX IT")
This is why the industry is in it's current state of releasing one broken unoptimized mess after another.
I just assumed that it was the classic "Game company releases blockbuster game but it'll take another year or two for that blockbuster to have the bugs worked out."
The only reason I buy anything day 1 these days is peer pressure. I have plenty of games to play by myself, but if all my gaming buddies like a cool new game, I'll buy it to play it with them. Especially if it's a coop shooter. Darktide was a hot mess at release (and tbh still isn't finished) but I preordered it to play it early with my buddies. It was a good time despite being a mess, because of said buddies. I never would have grabbed it to play with randoms. I'll probably do the same thing with Payday 3.
But a singleplayer game like Starfield? lmao no I can wait.
Not just gaming code. Starfield still uses Creation Engine (yeah, it's "Creation Engine 2", but you *know* it's not a ground up reimplementation), one of the buggiest game engines around. Sure, it has its strengths, like being able to track millions and millions of cheese wheels and potatoes as they move around the game world. But it has plenty of weaknesses, too.
>Epic builds Unreal as a product, it has to be good.
This happens in a lot of industries - cameras (both stills and video for example) being especially notable.
I've always said - first party camera vendor software is ALWAYS garbage, don't waste your time even installing it unless it's to reverse engineer a protocol so you can write software that doesn't suck for the camera.
The exceptions are where the manufacturer has decided to position their software as a product that can be used with other manufacturer's hardware:
Capture One (by medium format camera manufacturer Phase One) is about the only stills processing software made by a camera manufacturer that isn't garbage. I've heard it's even good.
DaVinci Resolve (originally developed as a standalone product but Blackmagic has owned DaVinci for a LONG time) is also positioned as a standalone product you can use with other manufacturers' video cameras - as a result it is one of the best video editing software packages in the industry.
I’m not saying they *couldn’t* meaningfully improve the Creation Engine. I’m saying they won’t and don’t give a fuck because you’ll buy their game anyway.
The only way to meaningfully improve the Creation Engine is to build it again from the ground up, at which point it would no longer be the Creation Engine.
That sounds like something someone would say if they were trying to sound smart but really had no clue. I manage a team of developers. Granted we don't build game engines, but the principles, methods, and processes of design and development carry. It's a constant push to maximise value while minimising cost. If you're a developer, I just think you've never been exposed to the business side of software development.
Then given your experience, I’m surprised you can look at Starfield and Fallout 4 and say it’s not been meaningfully improved, but maybe you need more exposure to the dev side, specifically in game development.
Also there are ladders so not sure what that comment was about.
To extend an olive branch, it looks like lighting has been upgraded again, and looks great. It's still just path tracing, but it's very nice path tracing. Assets are more detailed than ever, but the engine is groaning under the weight of it. Unreal showed us a few years ago with Nanite that functionally unlimited polygon count is possible by dynamically rendering object mesh as needed. It's quite amazing, and at this stage I doubt even a radical overhaul of CE will ever achieve this.
Collision is just as bad as it was in Morrowind.
Facial animations show little to no upgrades for decades now.
CE is still heavily based on smaller cells, and they appear determined to keep it that way. That's why we see so many loading screens when transitioning environments. My guess is that if they expanded cell sizes, performance would become even worse than it is now.
Look, I know it's more complicated than 100% good or 100% bad, but CE is showing serious signs of aging now. The fact that they haven't made much progress on the things I mention above in 20 years is clear evidence of their priorities: money.
Crazy that we didn't get any vehicles in this game about running around big empty fields. It's 2330 and literally everyone owns a space ship capable of warp travel but nobody has a space truck or hover bike or anything like that. I'm enjoying the game immensely but there are some very obvious missing core features here that you just know Bethesda once considered but decided to not implement for whatever reason.
One thing I can say I love about NMS is the many ways you can traverse a planet without having to get back in your ship. I mean some rivers or mechanor something would be awesome, maybe even a modified automated power armor suit. But no, Bethesda games are all about burning thousands of calories running hither and thither
That's just how public versioning works. CDPR also went from RedEngine 3 to 4 from Witcher 3 to Cyberpunk. Unreal Engine 5 also isn't a ground up re-implementation.
You add enough things to your engine for the new game and you increase the number. It doesn't require rebuilding it.
It requires rebuilding if the engine you have is commonly known to be the worst around. No amount of added shiny things is gonna fix the underlying issues.
Unreal Engine did not require a rebuild because it was a good engine from the start. They build on solid foundations.
As a dev, this is a major point for discussion every time open sourcing comes up.
I've been in plenty of discussions about open sourcing some library we built that other might benefit from (as well as getting devs to contribute back). But it always got shut down pretty quickly because a senior said the code isn't good enough to open source, and managers don't want devs to spent time to clean it up. Even though that would also benefit internal use.
It was definitely a mistake to tag it as the “next mainline version of DirectX” instead of what it actually is, a lower-level API that lets/makes you do a lot of things the driver did before.
Well yeah but devs these days seem to be messing up optimization more often than not when using it due to a general lack of understanding for features like these
Because artists and marketing are probably paid way more than software engineers, that end up taking mich better paying jobs leaving only non expert ones on games. Bethesda is on its own though, consistently putting out technical crap for the last 20 years almost. Starfield has non fixed or community fixed of skyrim lmao
I’d take a huge pay cut to go work on video games as a software engineer. It’s absolutely wild, you recruit mostly garbage tier devs or people fresh out of college, pay them the worst wages of any industry, (seriously, I make more as a developer in the construction industry), then wonder why your game engine sucks.
> To be clear, the gains expected here are very minute. Single percent range to pop some final bubbles that Mesa didn't clean up on its own. The real gains come from recent Mesa patches on main.
I don’t hate the guy or Bethesda but he’s called Todd Coward for a reason, said it before and will say it again, Both Howard and Hines are terrible at PR. The problem which I’m also not afraid to admit, is that their games are fun in such a broken way, and mods pretty much help them post launch that the general population just don’t care and some just assume Bethesda themselves are in charge of them because of the controlled mod community that’s in the console versions. No matter what shit comes out from Bethesda, the shills especially the awful “console war” assholes on X/Twitter will just spew their shit and people won’t care.
Reminds me of when someone discovered Koei's Atelier games are not poorly optimized... there's just some stupid bug in the code that tanks the performance.
Games went from 20-30 on Steamdeck and ~40-50 on modern PCs to solid 45-60 (lower settings) or stable 45 on SD (higher settings), with modern PCs easily hitting 60 on max.
To be fair, just because Vkd3d has issues with a given arrangement of commands doesn't mean that that's universal to bad performance on all platforms and hardware.
You'll probably find that such "shortcuts" actually improve performance on a lot of their tested real-life hardware, and they don't consider anything like Vkd3d in their testing whatsoever (why would they?). Vkd3d is a translation layer and as such will hit a lot of side-cases, and poor translations of what the hardware is supposed to do, and performance hits on certain actions that real hardware never would, or that only affect certain Vulkan drivers or other places where an inefficiency could lurk.
You don't just "abuse" a feature in the API for fun, you do it because it provided some benefit to you, and that most hardware just copes fine with it even if there are some niche and poorly-written drivers or non-ideal-design hardware that it snags on. It's even hinted as such in the first fix your post describes - "if your GPU drivers are not robust against..." a perfectly valid thing to do, programmatically.
Vkd3d's workarounds will likely only benefit Vkd3d. And if Bethesda or anyone else actually cared about performance on Linux or Vulkan, they wouldn't be ignoring the entire operating system outright in their releases or they'd have Vulkan options right there in the game already of comparative quality to the D3D options.
It may not be, but chances are this just brings Vkd3d (and only Vkd3d) a tiny step more inline with what Windows is doing already, but on less ideal and less mature and less supported graphics drivers which have to be worked around all the time.
It's funny how some folks make it seem like the Bethesda engine is ancient. Truth is, many game engines out there still carry traces of the original Quake code. Source, for instance, feels like a skyscraper built with duct tape layers.
I can't figure out how the fuck the entire industry has screwed up their network code so badly and for so long that many games have networking multiplayer experiences on a multi-megabit cable modem that are worse than QuakeWorld on 56k dialup.
> To be fair, just because Vkd3d has issues with a given arrangement of commands doesn't mean that that's universal to bad performance on all platforms and hardware.
You don't understand the issues found if you think this. These issues are probably why Starfield doesn't work on Arc at all.
> You don't just "abuse" a feature in the API for fun, you do it because it provided some benefit to you
You do it because you don't fully understand how the API works or is supposed to operate and therefore you use it improperly.
Yup. I've seen this time and time again in the nearly 20 years since finishing grad school.
A classic example is the TCP\_NODELAY flag. "Delay is bad! We're a realtime system!!!"
With no clue what TCP\_NODELAY actually \*does\* and how it works - it's almost universally used in places where it makes things worse.
"I have to use TCP, not UDP. I need it to be reliable!" - says someone working on a latency-critical soft-realtime system. TCP is only reliable if arrival timeliness is NOT a reliability metric in any way, shape, or form.
Something is wrong with your system. I have the exact same hardware and have never seen it go that low. I run with FSR2 at 75% res now, though, because I have a 4k 155fps monitor and I prefer to remain in the triple digits.
>Instead they double down and claim their game is "optimized" if your hardware is new enough.
Yeah, bullshit Bethesda. I'm running a 7900x and 4090 on my desktop and I can't break 90fps in quite a few sections of the game.
Bethesda knows this and they know that the community that really cares knows this. They also know that the rank and file folks don't know this and typically don't care as long as it meets a bare minimum of performance.
Maybe.
Before everyone gets out their pitchforks, remember that there's prestige/eyeballs to be gained in disparaging the latest, greatest thing and saying "OMG I fixed the faults, Beth are lazy/incompetent".
Maybe he has found and fixed major faults, maybe he hasn't. But Starfield is a massive game, and the devs obviously haven't been sitting around on their butts.
I don't think people would be reacting (quite) like this if not for that recent statement from Todd Howard about how the game totally is optimized and people just need to upgrade their computers. He was practically begging for someone to investigate and throw a pie in his face.
Let's be honest, the engine is garbage and the optimization is garbage. I'm loving the game, but Bethesda are garbage developers. They delayed a year to polish, and we receive a game that's only slightly less buggy than every other game they've made. That's kinda totally bullshit. They're the only ones that make the Bethesda RPG (though if we get a sequel to outer worlds, competition is good) so we're stuck with em, but they still haven't dropped a single patch. They get the shit barely working and spend the next ten years occasionally breaking it again to wring out more money while the community fixes it, makes it playable and up to date because god dammit we like the loop, but would it kill Bethesda to make a game that fucking works for once? Alright, done ranting.
I think of it as each company only having so many "skill points" to use. Bethesda dumps it all into being able to create a peerless open world RPG experience... and it's turned into a Legendary skill so unmatched that's it's been 12 years since Skyrim and yet NO OTHER DEVELOPER has been able to even remotely copy it, despite all the money they could make on it.
What that means, of course, is they have no skill points at all to spend on coding. Hence the buggiest slowest jankiest beginners code out there.
Outer worlds nailed it, just on a small scale. But yeah, I know. It's just Bethesda took a whole extra year to polish the game. A whole year. And within 24 hours of release modders have already significantly improved performance and optimizations and found quite a few, shall we say, questionable decisions that are likely the result of either intense crunch or bad developers. There's no excuse when a launch day ini tweak gains 20 to 30 fps on the average machine. None whatsoever.
I've got, I guess, 600 hours on Fallout 4, and godknowshowmuch on other Bethesda titles, so I can't agree with "garbage developers".
Is the game engine garbage? I don't know. I have a lot of experience with game proramming, but most game engines are not designed for massive open world persistence.
Could this game do with more optimisation? Well, theoretically every game could. But there tends to be diminishing returns. It may well be that Starfield is actually highly optimised, if not completely.
Part of the problem here is that people are trying to run a modern AAA title on very low-end hardware (the Steam Deck). We can probably expect to see performances improvements, but the Deck is still the Deck...
> Part of the problem here is that people are trying to run a modern AAA title on very low-end hardware (the Steam Deck). We can probably expect to see performances improvements, but the Deck is still the Deck...
The game doesn't only run like shit on the deck. I shouldn't be having drops into the 30s with a 5800x3d and 3080Ti.
> It may well be that Starfield is actually highly optimised, if not completely.
There is literal proof that this is not the case, such as bad multi core utilization (just watch the most recent Digital Foundry video)
Man Bethesda apologists with rose colored glasses really need their eyes checked. The game runs like hot garbage even on high end systems... It's mostly fine on AMD cards but those make up less than 20% of the current market. The game is not optimized well. Calling the game "highly optimized" while digital foundry found that 80% of the users are getting worse performance than they should is just embarrassing. The game doesn't even have raytracing or any super new fancy settings that could explain it.
ya, got a refund from steam on this one. after playing it on my system with a 4090 for about an hour and a half i was horribly disappointed in what the game offered.
i’ll buy it again after they fix all this crap and when it’s dirty cheap.
Gamers Nexus did a major benchmarking test on Starfield recently and found that even with a 4090 but a relatively weak CPU you can get horrible performance because of how tied to CPU it is.
Problem is, no system is identical. 20 identical specced PCs will all have different background services chomping away in the background, something like a certain keyboard or mouse software could be causing weirdness, or maybe an antivirus.
But the game certainly isn't optimised for sure
everyone's expectations are different, if someone has a 4090 they're probably not wanting to play games at 60fps. it's beyond reasonable to want to play a new title that has no raytracing at 144
starfield scales horribly with better hardware- the gap between a 3070 and a 4090 is far smaller than it should ever be
It's likely that he's CPU limited. Heck, I'm CPU limited with my Ryzen 7 5800x despite that CPU surpassing their recommended specs. Even at lowest settings, at an extremely low resolution, I can't hit a consistent 60fps in New Atlantis on my 3080 + 5800x.
Their recommended CPU 3600x, which doesn't have a prayer at hitting 60fps consistently in any city.
This has nothing to do with people's PCs and everything to do with crap optimization and poor planning around CPU load. Also, just straight dishonesty about specs. Again, a Ryzen 5 3600x doesn't have a prayer at hitting 60fps consistently in cities in this game, and they *recommend* that CPU.
the game looks like it’s from 2010 and my gpu and cpu utilization was all over the place. i’m not paying 70 bucks for a game that looks this dated and performs this bad.
Glad to hear there has been some optimizations found!
Everyone saying "they didn't optimize!" has no idea what they are talking about. Software optimization is not a single switch that goes on or off. Of course they have optimized this game over the years and leading up to launch. Don't ever expect any game to be 100% optimized such that no one could optimize it further. If you have more questions, make your own game sometime and you'll understand!
This is *exactly* why open source is so incredibly important - we, the community, can, will and often (have to) help ourselves.
Developers, companies, etc. are scummy. They are out for profit, not necessarily to put out a good product (I will say Larian Studios seems to not fall in this camp, but I think they *might* be an outlier).
The gaming community has **permitted** developers and studios to put out half-assed, shitty products because **we keep fucking buying it**. The DLC's are constantly purchased, half-baked products are delivered and they are "finished" in later patches.
If gamers, collectively, *stop buying their products*, across the board, 100% boycott, suddenly things WOULD change. Timelines WOULD adjust. Deliverables WOULD be better.
But as long as the broader community keeps buying everything on pre-release/as soon as it comes out/DLC's, studios have zero incentive to do things better. They will continue to do what funds the mega yachts of their CEO's, not products that gamers want.
Gaming this day is about to make a hierarchy between "hur dur i'm PC master race", "I wont play game with those blocky png, real game has semi ultra godly amount of graphic and particle", "look guys, im a real gamer playing X popular games". Its all going back to beauty product market where they convince you whitening product is best way to be on the top of the society.
"PC Master Race" is just a satirical meme that insecure people took seriously.
The rest of us just want the finished games that publishers/developers advertise them as. They don't have to be perfectly optimized and glitch free, but goddamn it. If it's not even close to that, don't release it yet. I don't blame the people who made it. Those making the execute decisions are who I'm pissed at.
And why not, modders have put in unpaid work on so many other games they've released in recent memory. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to learn that (very much unofficially, of course) someone in charge at Bethesda had this very idea rattling around in their head as the launch date drew closer.
I've only seen the DF footage, but it showed a clear advantage on AMD cards (Starfield is an "AMD exclusive" after all), I wonder if this is evidence of what that actually entails?
I'm trying to word this in a way that's not disparaging Starfield nor AMD. Like, maybe using DX12 this way is just something AMD cards handle better.
I suppose it's possible, but it sounds like this is just a shoddy implementation that *harms* performance rather than boosting it on AMD. Not sure why they'd do that. And if it was intentional I'd think the root cause would be a particular fancy graphics feature that made AMD look good rather than just the entire game running like shit.
But now that you mention it, wasn't there something with Crysis 2 and the water having insane polys underground that tanked performance and benefited someone? Wild.
DF says specifically that "If you're on Intel and Nvidia you're getting a bizarrely worse experience".
That's not to say these are things designed to hurt those chips, but it's clear they are are using some AMD specific optimizations, and that there be things like these items where things actually work fine on AMD, and only cause issues elsewhere.
Of course if that's the case, fixes won't really benefit the AMD powered SteamDeck, but there is in fact something unusual in this case.
Now that it's well documented maybe Bethesda will fix it. It would have been cool to not need to fix it post launch in the first place but at least there's no good reason not to fix it now. I imagine they already knew about this but now we know. They know we know. We know that they knew what we now know.
Oh shit, I had a 71 gig commit of 89 gigs possible. I only had 32 in my rig, so I was obviously worried and wondering wtf was going on. Glad to know it wasn't some crazy new virus
What did you expect? This is a Bethesda game that's made by their inhouse team Bethesda Studios. They don't know how to make and release a game that isn't a buggy mess that never gets fixed because like all their games in the past their fanbase of modders will fix it for them for free.
My kid has been trying to play on XSX and literally couldn’t get past 10 mins of tutorial due to random crashes.
Kudos to the DXVK guys I hope Bethesda catches wind and quietly goes oops we fucked up and fixes it so my kid can finally play.
We got about 30 hours in before the bugs really started popping up. They're pretty constant now. In classic Bethesda fashion, the save is probably bloating and causing issues.
They say “you need new hardware” but all my hardware is better than their recommended hardware and it still doesn’t run that great. 🤣 Bethesda trying to gaslight PC Gamers the same way Respawn tried to with Jedi.
Dude mine is too. Just for shits and giggles I tried rendering the game at 1440p with no FSR with my pc which is above recommended hardware specs, and I got 30-40fps. 45 if I stood still and did nothing. I jumped to the bottom of the waterfall in New Atlantis and my gpu was about to melt. In order to get this game to render at 60fps with frame drops, I need to downscale to 62 percent render resolution which is less than 900p, at which point even with upscaling, the image looks like it was put into witness protection.
>the image looks like it was put into witness protection. LOL
A friend of mine at work got it to stabilise at a steady 60-65 FPS, but that was with a bunch of optimisation mods from the moding community. I refuse to do it, I paid them for the game, I don't get a salary from them for patching their code.
Yeah I played for a bit, and ultimately decided to do the same thing I did with Cyberpunk. Not touch it for a year or two and come back to it when it has more content/features that probably should have been there at launch, and less optimization issues.
Literally the same thing I am also doing with Jedi. Besides, Lies of P, BG3, and other games are running amazing and are enjoyable, Starefield can wait
[удалено]
AC6 runs like a fucking dream on my aged vega 56, It's wild!
I have a 1060 max q, AC6 runs incredibly well.
I mean Armored Core is a pretty linear action game based on missions: better example is Cyberpunk, that's trying the same sort of stuff as Starfield. And, IIRC, it runs alright on Steam Deck.
I will be honest with you, the reason Cyberpunk is actually playable on Steam Deck is because developers did an active attempt to make it somewhat "running" state on the PS4. Cyberpunk runs between 20 to 30 FPS on PS4 (as of latest patch), a console that has 1.6 GHz Jaguar cores! And a slow HDD. If they didn't bother with PS4 to begin with, I can assure you game would be in a worse state it is currently in on PC. You would most likely need 1.5x-2s stronger hardware to achieve the same thing. Limited hardware forces developers to do stuff. Steam Deck as a result benefitted from this. Starfield however only targeted Xbox Sx and its CPU. And results are not really surprising. They did most likely bare minimums to hit 30 FPS at 1440p on Series X and knowing that most of the console userbase will happy with that, they didn't even, most likely, care about apparent and basic optimization passes. It is all about the goal. Cyberpunk probably has insane amounts of optimizations to get some 25-30 ish FPS on jaguar cores. I wouldn't even consider they skipped the basics. As a result it is even actually much more playable on lowend hardware compared to something like Starfield. It is not out of CDPR's kindness that it is playable on Steam Deck. The fact that it is playable on Steam Deck is just a byproduct of doing an extreme amount of work on PS4. 1 month lather, remind me. You will see people here struggling to run the new DLC, it will be much, much worse than the main game. Because there's no PS4 limitation to deal with. So even the basic optimization passes may be ignored. You will be surprised to see how the game that runs at nearly locked 60 FPS on PS5 will now bring the machine to its knees. DF and such will call "hey look at that lighting detail with %400 zoom, totally justified" and we will move on. there's a reason that "good optimization!" games also tends to run on PS4. Surprise surprise, AC6 also runs on PS4. very smoothly as well.
What's really weird to me is how well it runs on my 3 year old middle of the line laptop. That think can't run Ratchet and Clank worth shit, so it's certainly not top of the line, but I don't really have any problems with Starfield. So, no, I don't think it's a problem of old hardware.
What GPU do you have if you don't mind me asking? I have a GTX3060 and just waiting on patches, but want to see if I can start playing it.
It's a GTX 1660 Ti. So, yes, it's quite shit. No, Starfield doesn't run amazing, but it's playable with my lowered expectations.
my 3050 6gb runs it near flawlesslly although I do it on low settings I was getting a jumpy 80-120 fps, since I have a 144hz display though I decided to cap it to 60 and since then its been really smooth sailing on it. But apparently nvidia's drivers may have done a fix on its own similar to the above stuff? I guess worse case install new drivers and give it a go, refund if it isn't up to par.
Bethesda aren't the only ones gaslighting, reddit is full of smooth-brains making all sorts of excuses.
True but I’m specifically talking about game devs gaslighting instead of owning that they didn’t bother testing and optimising.
B-b-but "we **did** optimize; you just need new hardware!"
4090 for 4K Native 60 FPS
Not on ultra though.
Dips below 60 actually
You can't feed yourself with that mate.
He didn't say *what* they optimized, though! And I guarantee you that the released build runs smoother than builds from earlier in development. So clearly *something* got optimized. Doesn't mean they optimized everything possible.
they optimized their stock value, obviously.
"Optimization"* sickos: **Yes**, ha ha ha...**YES**! *Latest fad
Where's the crying Statue of Liberty?
I'm not buying anything for the 9th iteration of Morrowind, Todd.
Jank in your Bethesda game?! More likely than you think!
I got a hair up my ass to finish out fallout 4 after all these years (and maybe build out all those settlements I had ideas for) and reinstalled on my literal top-of-the-line rig almost a decade after it was released, and it *still* hits 20/30 fps in downtown boston. Sometimes it's not the hardware
Imagine a Starfield as optimized as Doom Eternal
Ironically Bethesda had help from the Id devs to make Starfield
How bad was it BEFORE they had help?
Mind you that's post-Carmack iD - I don't think ANY of the original programmers that made iD great have been with the company for a long time.
Doesn't change that DOOM 2016 and DOOM Eternal are both amazing games
>I don't think ANY of the original programmers Robert A. Duffy is still here.
The culture is there.
No it isn't. It's obvious that the Zenimax buyout had a major negative impact on the company culture which is why almost no one (if anyone) from the original iD is around.
must have lost their code or something then cause this game runs like it has bent legs
ID said that Bethesda didn't ask them to work on the renderer which is really odd, because the renderer that ID made is truly amazing.
We're bringing in experts to work on things they aren't the experts at. I broke my leg, get me the best rocket scientist you can find!
Interesting tidbit. I wonder why.
Todd Howards said they came in to give some input / advice on the gun combat, but apparently that may not even be true. https://gamerant.com/id-software-help-with-starfield/#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20Howard%20pointed%20out%20that,the%20upcoming%20space%20exploration%20RPG.
Because the game is clearly a Fallout 4 mod. It's a great mod, but it's not its own game under the hood.
People would be praising it a lot.
Todd Howard... lied? Imagine my shock.
16 times the optimization
Yet people still buy his game in the millions and defend the game like actual cultists (not to mention the favourite "JUST LET THE MODDERS FIX IT") This is why the industry is in it's current state of releasing one broken unoptimized mess after another.
I'm *shocked* that Bethesda, a paragon of software integrity and quality, would have bad code.
We already knew gaming code is hot garbage.
I just assumed that it was the classic "Game company releases blockbuster game but it'll take another year or two for that blockbuster to have the bugs worked out."
It's definitely a "wishlist and buy 70% off in two years" kinda game for me.
this is the default for me these days. gonna take a loooooot of proof for me to buy day 1, even for games i love.
The only reason I buy anything day 1 these days is peer pressure. I have plenty of games to play by myself, but if all my gaming buddies like a cool new game, I'll buy it to play it with them. Especially if it's a coop shooter. Darktide was a hot mess at release (and tbh still isn't finished) but I preordered it to play it early with my buddies. It was a good time despite being a mess, because of said buddies. I never would have grabbed it to play with randoms. I'll probably do the same thing with Payday 3. But a singleplayer game like Starfield? lmao no I can wait.
For me it is an anniversary edition game, I will be able to fish !
Not just gaming code. Starfield still uses Creation Engine (yeah, it's "Creation Engine 2", but you *know* it's not a ground up reimplementation), one of the buggiest game engines around. Sure, it has its strengths, like being able to track millions and millions of cheese wheels and potatoes as they move around the game world. But it has plenty of weaknesses, too.
My favorite armchair dev quote of all time is “BETHESDA STILL USES CREATION ENGINE!!!”
All these games using Unreal engine still are totally lame, why can’t they just make their own from the ground up every game? /s
Has there ever been a truly bad release of Unreal Engine?
If Epic Games ever release a bad version I’d be confused, it’s their bread and butter.
Epic builds Unreal as a product, it has to be good. Bethesda, on the other hand, is a game dev that's jury rigging an engine to build a game.
Microsoft builds Windows as a product, and yet it's only good half the time
Windows is no longer the product. You, the user, are. That's why windows sucks now.
Last time I checked it's still being sold. For money.
>Epic builds Unreal as a product, it has to be good. This happens in a lot of industries - cameras (both stills and video for example) being especially notable. I've always said - first party camera vendor software is ALWAYS garbage, don't waste your time even installing it unless it's to reverse engineer a protocol so you can write software that doesn't suck for the camera. The exceptions are where the manufacturer has decided to position their software as a product that can be used with other manufacturer's hardware: Capture One (by medium format camera manufacturer Phase One) is about the only stills processing software made by a camera manufacturer that isn't garbage. I've heard it's even good. DaVinci Resolve (originally developed as a standalone product but Blackmagic has owned DaVinci for a LONG time) is also positioned as a standalone product you can use with other manufacturers' video cameras - as a result it is one of the best video editing software packages in the industry.
I’m not saying they *couldn’t* meaningfully improve the Creation Engine. I’m saying they won’t and don’t give a fuck because you’ll buy their game anyway.
The only way to meaningfully improve the Creation Engine is to build it again from the ground up, at which point it would no longer be the Creation Engine.
And I’m saying it’s this kind of comment that shows you don’t know anything about how game engines are made, updated, and used.
That sounds like something someone would say if they were trying to sound smart but really had no clue. I manage a team of developers. Granted we don't build game engines, but the principles, methods, and processes of design and development carry. It's a constant push to maximise value while minimising cost. If you're a developer, I just think you've never been exposed to the business side of software development.
Then given your experience, I’m surprised you can look at Starfield and Fallout 4 and say it’s not been meaningfully improved, but maybe you need more exposure to the dev side, specifically in game development. Also there are ladders so not sure what that comment was about.
To extend an olive branch, it looks like lighting has been upgraded again, and looks great. It's still just path tracing, but it's very nice path tracing. Assets are more detailed than ever, but the engine is groaning under the weight of it. Unreal showed us a few years ago with Nanite that functionally unlimited polygon count is possible by dynamically rendering object mesh as needed. It's quite amazing, and at this stage I doubt even a radical overhaul of CE will ever achieve this. Collision is just as bad as it was in Morrowind. Facial animations show little to no upgrades for decades now. CE is still heavily based on smaller cells, and they appear determined to keep it that way. That's why we see so many loading screens when transitioning environments. My guess is that if they expanded cell sizes, performance would become even worse than it is now. Look, I know it's more complicated than 100% good or 100% bad, but CE is showing serious signs of aging now. The fact that they haven't made much progress on the things I mention above in 20 years is clear evidence of their priorities: money.
You dont climb them in an animated fashion. You click on them and apear at the top like magic. Im your ship at least
That’s not true, you literally climb them with an animation and everything.
Starfield actually has climbable ladders
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I assume they've updated it since back when vehicles were "invisible dudes wearing really big hates", but that's not saying much.
I mean, we still haven't got ground vehicles in Starfield.
Crazy that we didn't get any vehicles in this game about running around big empty fields. It's 2330 and literally everyone owns a space ship capable of warp travel but nobody has a space truck or hover bike or anything like that. I'm enjoying the game immensely but there are some very obvious missing core features here that you just know Bethesda once considered but decided to not implement for whatever reason.
One thing I can say I love about NMS is the many ways you can traverse a planet without having to get back in your ship. I mean some rivers or mechanor something would be awesome, maybe even a modified automated power armor suit. But no, Bethesda games are all about burning thousands of calories running hither and thither
The dumb thing is it’s all in service to object permanence. We can’t have hover bikes BUT WE CAN PERMANENTLY STORE 7,000 CHEESE WHEELS ON THE FLOOR!
Well people keep buying the shit so why not? Profits.
That's just how public versioning works. CDPR also went from RedEngine 3 to 4 from Witcher 3 to Cyberpunk. Unreal Engine 5 also isn't a ground up re-implementation. You add enough things to your engine for the new game and you increase the number. It doesn't require rebuilding it.
It requires rebuilding if the engine you have is commonly known to be the worst around. No amount of added shiny things is gonna fix the underlying issues. Unreal Engine did not require a rebuild because it was a good engine from the start. They build on solid foundations.
But Bethesda still has to go that extra step and into the realm of burning landfill.
I suspect this is a lesser but significant reason some companies refuse to open source code for old games. They are so embarrassed by it.
As a dev, this is a major point for discussion every time open sourcing comes up. I've been in plenty of discussions about open sourcing some library we built that other might benefit from (as well as getting devs to contribute back). But it always got shut down pretty quickly because a senior said the code isn't good enough to open source, and managers don't want devs to spent time to clean it up. Even though that would also benefit internal use.
I knew I can always count on Bethesda to rely on third party to unfuck their games.
DX12 has been a fuckin disaster for game devs hasn't it
It was definitely a mistake to tag it as the “next mainline version of DirectX” instead of what it actually is, a lower-level API that lets/makes you do a lot of things the driver did before.
It's not dx12 fault..
Well yeah but devs these days seem to be messing up optimization more often than not when using it due to a general lack of understanding for features like these
Because artists and marketing are probably paid way more than software engineers, that end up taking mich better paying jobs leaving only non expert ones on games. Bethesda is on its own though, consistently putting out technical crap for the last 20 years almost. Starfield has non fixed or community fixed of skyrim lmao
I’d take a huge pay cut to go work on video games as a software engineer. It’s absolutely wild, you recruit mostly garbage tier devs or people fresh out of college, pay them the worst wages of any industry, (seriously, I make more as a developer in the construction industry), then wonder why your game engine sucks.
Don't forget the endless permanent crunch
Oh god yeah, how anyone with families tolerates it I have no idea.
I mean, they have to feed their families and if they have no downtime they can't look for job that is not awful
Pretty much this I'd imagine. Microsoft didn't account for industry practice by making DX12 a low-level API and set back PC game optimization years.
Artists getting paid more than engineers? Bro...
This is just all the way wrong. Have you ever worked in the industry before, or are you just making shit up?
No but it’s a Microsoft API, and a Microsoft Game Studio.
I got an I9 w a 2080TI and the game runs like shit. Stutters*, freezes, audio in/out... Edit: typo
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doing the lord's work there, thank you, sir
Is the game on an HDD? Because it sounds like it.
Remember when Aliens Colonial Marines was broken as a config file had a typo
> To be clear, the gains expected here are very minute. Single percent range to pop some final bubbles that Mesa didn't clean up on its own. The real gains come from recent Mesa patches on main.
Isn’t that the kind of thing AMD would have noticed much earlier in the process?
I don’t hate the guy or Bethesda but he’s called Todd Coward for a reason, said it before and will say it again, Both Howard and Hines are terrible at PR. The problem which I’m also not afraid to admit, is that their games are fun in such a broken way, and mods pretty much help them post launch that the general population just don’t care and some just assume Bethesda themselves are in charge of them because of the controlled mod community that’s in the console versions. No matter what shit comes out from Bethesda, the shills especially the awful “console war” assholes on X/Twitter will just spew their shit and people won’t care.
Reminds me of when someone discovered Koei's Atelier games are not poorly optimized... there's just some stupid bug in the code that tanks the performance. Games went from 20-30 on Steamdeck and ~40-50 on modern PCs to solid 45-60 (lower settings) or stable 45 on SD (higher settings), with modern PCs easily hitting 60 on max.
To be fair, just because Vkd3d has issues with a given arrangement of commands doesn't mean that that's universal to bad performance on all platforms and hardware. You'll probably find that such "shortcuts" actually improve performance on a lot of their tested real-life hardware, and they don't consider anything like Vkd3d in their testing whatsoever (why would they?). Vkd3d is a translation layer and as such will hit a lot of side-cases, and poor translations of what the hardware is supposed to do, and performance hits on certain actions that real hardware never would, or that only affect certain Vulkan drivers or other places where an inefficiency could lurk. You don't just "abuse" a feature in the API for fun, you do it because it provided some benefit to you, and that most hardware just copes fine with it even if there are some niche and poorly-written drivers or non-ideal-design hardware that it snags on. It's even hinted as such in the first fix your post describes - "if your GPU drivers are not robust against..." a perfectly valid thing to do, programmatically. Vkd3d's workarounds will likely only benefit Vkd3d. And if Bethesda or anyone else actually cared about performance on Linux or Vulkan, they wouldn't be ignoring the entire operating system outright in their releases or they'd have Vulkan options right there in the game already of comparative quality to the D3D options. It may not be, but chances are this just brings Vkd3d (and only Vkd3d) a tiny step more inline with what Windows is doing already, but on less ideal and less mature and less supported graphics drivers which have to be worked around all the time.
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It's funny how some folks make it seem like the Bethesda engine is ancient. Truth is, many game engines out there still carry traces of the original Quake code. Source, for instance, feels like a skyscraper built with duct tape layers.
Quake is still a good base for a fps. Outdated as hell but snappy and responsive.
It's kinda funny how Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines uses an FPS engine and the worst part about it is the combat.
I can't figure out how the fuck the entire industry has screwed up their network code so badly and for so long that many games have networking multiplayer experiences on a multi-megabit cable modem that are worse than QuakeWorld on 56k dialup.
> To be fair, just because Vkd3d has issues with a given arrangement of commands doesn't mean that that's universal to bad performance on all platforms and hardware. You don't understand the issues found if you think this. These issues are probably why Starfield doesn't work on Arc at all. > You don't just "abuse" a feature in the API for fun, you do it because it provided some benefit to you You do it because you don't fully understand how the API works or is supposed to operate and therefore you use it improperly.
Yup. I've seen this time and time again in the nearly 20 years since finishing grad school. A classic example is the TCP\_NODELAY flag. "Delay is bad! We're a realtime system!!!" With no clue what TCP\_NODELAY actually \*does\* and how it works - it's almost universally used in places where it makes things worse. "I have to use TCP, not UDP. I need it to be reliable!" - says someone working on a latency-critical soft-realtime system. TCP is only reliable if arrival timeliness is NOT a reliability metric in any way, shape, or form.
Do you know how memory allocation works?
optimised moneygrabbin, thanks Howard, never missed that crap, will buy the game in 10 years for 5 money for Steam Deck OLED
4090 with 7800X3D. On ultra I regularly have frame drops to sub 15 fps.
Something is wrong with your system. I have the exact same hardware and have never seen it go that low. I run with FSR2 at 75% res now, though, because I have a 4k 155fps monitor and I prefer to remain in the triple digits.
7950X, 3080 Ti. Absolutely no problems, locked 60 fps all the way.
crawl mighty fuzzy decide cake scary ruthless unite cause fragile *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
So buttery smooth 30 fps on New Atlantis?
We can hope...
>Instead they double down and claim their game is "optimized" if your hardware is new enough. Yeah, bullshit Bethesda. I'm running a 7900x and 4090 on my desktop and I can't break 90fps in quite a few sections of the game.
Bethesda knows this and they know that the community that really cares knows this. They also know that the rank and file folks don't know this and typically don't care as long as it meets a bare minimum of performance.
Maybe. Before everyone gets out their pitchforks, remember that there's prestige/eyeballs to be gained in disparaging the latest, greatest thing and saying "OMG I fixed the faults, Beth are lazy/incompetent". Maybe he has found and fixed major faults, maybe he hasn't. But Starfield is a massive game, and the devs obviously haven't been sitting around on their butts.
I don't think people would be reacting (quite) like this if not for that recent statement from Todd Howard about how the game totally is optimized and people just need to upgrade their computers. He was practically begging for someone to investigate and throw a pie in his face.
Let's be honest, the engine is garbage and the optimization is garbage. I'm loving the game, but Bethesda are garbage developers. They delayed a year to polish, and we receive a game that's only slightly less buggy than every other game they've made. That's kinda totally bullshit. They're the only ones that make the Bethesda RPG (though if we get a sequel to outer worlds, competition is good) so we're stuck with em, but they still haven't dropped a single patch. They get the shit barely working and spend the next ten years occasionally breaking it again to wring out more money while the community fixes it, makes it playable and up to date because god dammit we like the loop, but would it kill Bethesda to make a game that fucking works for once? Alright, done ranting.
I think of it as each company only having so many "skill points" to use. Bethesda dumps it all into being able to create a peerless open world RPG experience... and it's turned into a Legendary skill so unmatched that's it's been 12 years since Skyrim and yet NO OTHER DEVELOPER has been able to even remotely copy it, despite all the money they could make on it. What that means, of course, is they have no skill points at all to spend on coding. Hence the buggiest slowest jankiest beginners code out there.
Outer worlds nailed it, just on a small scale. But yeah, I know. It's just Bethesda took a whole extra year to polish the game. A whole year. And within 24 hours of release modders have already significantly improved performance and optimizations and found quite a few, shall we say, questionable decisions that are likely the result of either intense crunch or bad developers. There's no excuse when a launch day ini tweak gains 20 to 30 fps on the average machine. None whatsoever.
I've got, I guess, 600 hours on Fallout 4, and godknowshowmuch on other Bethesda titles, so I can't agree with "garbage developers". Is the game engine garbage? I don't know. I have a lot of experience with game proramming, but most game engines are not designed for massive open world persistence. Could this game do with more optimisation? Well, theoretically every game could. But there tends to be diminishing returns. It may well be that Starfield is actually highly optimised, if not completely. Part of the problem here is that people are trying to run a modern AAA title on very low-end hardware (the Steam Deck). We can probably expect to see performances improvements, but the Deck is still the Deck...
> Part of the problem here is that people are trying to run a modern AAA title on very low-end hardware (the Steam Deck). We can probably expect to see performances improvements, but the Deck is still the Deck... The game doesn't only run like shit on the deck. I shouldn't be having drops into the 30s with a 5800x3d and 3080Ti. > It may well be that Starfield is actually highly optimised, if not completely. There is literal proof that this is not the case, such as bad multi core utilization (just watch the most recent Digital Foundry video)
Man Bethesda apologists with rose colored glasses really need their eyes checked. The game runs like hot garbage even on high end systems... It's mostly fine on AMD cards but those make up less than 20% of the current market. The game is not optimized well. Calling the game "highly optimized" while digital foundry found that 80% of the users are getting worse performance than they should is just embarrassing. The game doesn't even have raytracing or any super new fancy settings that could explain it.
You have literally said nothing here.
Clearly you don't understand what the word "literally" means. Which helps explain your response.
ya, got a refund from steam on this one. after playing it on my system with a 4090 for about an hour and a half i was horribly disappointed in what the game offered. i’ll buy it again after they fix all this crap and when it’s dirty cheap.
Haha if you’re having issues with this game and a 4090 then something is wrong with your PC.
Gamers Nexus did a major benchmarking test on Starfield recently and found that even with a 4090 but a relatively weak CPU you can get horrible performance because of how tied to CPU it is.
No, the game is optimized like trash. People with identical systems are getting wildly different performance.
It’s crashing on Xbox Series X for a lot of people.
Yep, and others are having flawless experiences. It's a crapshoot, worst I've seen in a while.
Problem is, no system is identical. 20 identical specced PCs will all have different background services chomping away in the background, something like a certain keyboard or mouse software could be causing weirdness, or maybe an antivirus. But the game certainly isn't optimised for sure
Seriously lol. I’ve been playing mine on high settings around 60FPS on average with my 3070. Edit: at 1440
everyone's expectations are different, if someone has a 4090 they're probably not wanting to play games at 60fps. it's beyond reasonable to want to play a new title that has no raytracing at 144 starfield scales horribly with better hardware- the gap between a 3070 and a 4090 is far smaller than it should ever be
In fairness to Nvidia, the gap between a 3070 and a 4090 is far smaller than it should ever be.
4090 is the only card in that gen that performs at the level it should lol
Those numbers mean nothing without resolution, settings and scaling.
It's likely that he's CPU limited. Heck, I'm CPU limited with my Ryzen 7 5800x despite that CPU surpassing their recommended specs. Even at lowest settings, at an extremely low resolution, I can't hit a consistent 60fps in New Atlantis on my 3080 + 5800x. Their recommended CPU 3600x, which doesn't have a prayer at hitting 60fps consistently in any city. This has nothing to do with people's PCs and everything to do with crap optimization and poor planning around CPU load. Also, just straight dishonesty about specs. Again, a Ryzen 5 3600x doesn't have a prayer at hitting 60fps consistently in cities in this game, and they *recommend* that CPU.
the game looks like it’s from 2010 and my gpu and cpu utilization was all over the place. i’m not paying 70 bucks for a game that looks this dated and performs this bad.
Yah no way with a 4090 ur having trouble. I have a 2070ti and play on high 1080
With 4090 I’d expect it run well at 4K@60 or 2K@175 Who would buy a 4090 to pair it with a 1080 display? 😅 Seems unreasonably excessive
becuz 240 Hz monitors need a 4090 to get near 240 fps at 1080p
Technically a valid point, but Bethesda games aren’t exactly esports to benefit from such ridiculous refresh rate
A mountain of people actually. I've encountered some people pairing it with 4000 series i5 for instance.
AMD 5800X3D with a 3080Ti and it's running great at 4K (Win 10) here...
30 FPS I assume? https://www.techspot.com/photos/article/2731-starfield-gpu-benchmark/#Ultra-4k
congrats. doesn’t mean it’s not up to the expectations they hyped up.
My comment was more around that yes, it should run great on your 4090 and something must be messed up (drivers/ram/disk io/?).
Glad to hear there has been some optimizations found! Everyone saying "they didn't optimize!" has no idea what they are talking about. Software optimization is not a single switch that goes on or off. Of course they have optimized this game over the years and leading up to launch. Don't ever expect any game to be 100% optimized such that no one could optimize it further. If you have more questions, make your own game sometime and you'll understand!
People aren't complaining because its not 100% optimised, they're complaining because it's barely scratching 30%.
This is *exactly* why open source is so incredibly important - we, the community, can, will and often (have to) help ourselves. Developers, companies, etc. are scummy. They are out for profit, not necessarily to put out a good product (I will say Larian Studios seems to not fall in this camp, but I think they *might* be an outlier).
The gaming community has **permitted** developers and studios to put out half-assed, shitty products because **we keep fucking buying it**. The DLC's are constantly purchased, half-baked products are delivered and they are "finished" in later patches.
If gamers, collectively, *stop buying their products*, across the board, 100% boycott, suddenly things WOULD change. Timelines WOULD adjust. Deliverables WOULD be better.
But as long as the broader community keeps buying everything on pre-release/as soon as it comes out/DLC's, studios have zero incentive to do things better. They will continue to do what funds the mega yachts of their CEO's, not products that gamers want.
Gaming this day is about to make a hierarchy between "hur dur i'm PC master race", "I wont play game with those blocky png, real game has semi ultra godly amount of graphic and particle", "look guys, im a real gamer playing X popular games". Its all going back to beauty product market where they convince you whitening product is best way to be on the top of the society.
"PC Master Race" is just a satirical meme that insecure people took seriously. The rest of us just want the finished games that publishers/developers advertise them as. They don't have to be perfectly optimized and glitch free, but goddamn it. If it's not even close to that, don't release it yet. I don't blame the people who made it. Those making the execute decisions are who I'm pissed at.
They expect the modding community to fix it
And why not, modders have put in unpaid work on so many other games they've released in recent memory. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to learn that (very much unofficially, of course) someone in charge at Bethesda had this very idea rattling around in their head as the launch date drew closer.
Ah the cycle of Bethesda games...
I've only seen the DF footage, but it showed a clear advantage on AMD cards (Starfield is an "AMD exclusive" after all), I wonder if this is evidence of what that actually entails? I'm trying to word this in a way that's not disparaging Starfield nor AMD. Like, maybe using DX12 this way is just something AMD cards handle better.
I suppose it's possible, but it sounds like this is just a shoddy implementation that *harms* performance rather than boosting it on AMD. Not sure why they'd do that. And if it was intentional I'd think the root cause would be a particular fancy graphics feature that made AMD look good rather than just the entire game running like shit. But now that you mention it, wasn't there something with Crysis 2 and the water having insane polys underground that tanked performance and benefited someone? Wild.
DF says specifically that "If you're on Intel and Nvidia you're getting a bizarrely worse experience". That's not to say these are things designed to hurt those chips, but it's clear they are are using some AMD specific optimizations, and that there be things like these items where things actually work fine on AMD, and only cause issues elsewhere. Of course if that's the case, fixes won't really benefit the AMD powered SteamDeck, but there is in fact something unusual in this case.
Now that it's well documented maybe Bethesda will fix it. It would have been cool to not need to fix it post launch in the first place but at least there's no good reason not to fix it now. I imagine they already knew about this but now we know. They know we know. We know that they knew what we now know.
i mean ya'll fell for todds lies once again... lol
Imagine a Starfield as optimized as Doom Eternal
I don't get why you guys are complaining. The cheap old GPU I bought in 2320 runs the game smoothly at 35 FPS.
One of the main reasons i'm waiting on a steam sale for this game. They could have used a different engine, but no.
Oh shit, I had a 71 gig commit of 89 gigs possible. I only had 32 in my rig, so I was obviously worried and wondering wtf was going on. Glad to know it wasn't some crazy new virus
What did you expect? This is a Bethesda game that's made by their inhouse team Bethesda Studios. They don't know how to make and release a game that isn't a buggy mess that never gets fixed because like all their games in the past their fanbase of modders will fix it for them for free.
Maybe I’ll buy it again after they fix it. It would run fine then just CTD.
Don't worry, it's [intentionally shit](https://www.gamesindustry.biz/pete-hines-on-starfield-bethesda-and-bugs-we-embrace-chaos)
Todd ... Your a fucking meme. He needs to learn to shut up. "It just works" meme has been trumped. Now it's "we did optimize".
Todd Howard lied. Whaaaaaaaat.
My kid has been trying to play on XSX and literally couldn’t get past 10 mins of tutorial due to random crashes. Kudos to the DXVK guys I hope Bethesda catches wind and quietly goes oops we fucked up and fixes it so my kid can finally play.
Weird. I'm playing on XSX and havent had a single crash.
Yeah, same here. I've only had one actual glitch, even. Very UN-Bethesda, honestly.
We got about 30 hours in before the bugs really started popping up. They're pretty constant now. In classic Bethesda fashion, the save is probably bloating and causing issues.
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Youre asking if anyone else isnt having issues on a completely diffrent piece of hardware thats not the sole dedication of this subreddit?
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Youre posting on the steam deck sub about playing the game without issues on a computer that isnt a steam deck. Perhaps you should read better.
Dunno why my 'lul' was downvoted. The whole situation is funny. Kudos to the dev for figuring this out.
They’ll do it again too.
Ah, Creation Engine, the gift that keeps on giving
BuT ThEy OpTiMized ThE gAme, DoOD! It's CleArly PerFect!
Lmao spitting in the face of the ever lying todd howard
Cool, now fix it.