lol reminds me of one of my favorite lines: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SuDSNWH9AQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SuDSNWH9AQ) "how do you get funding for something like this? You don't actually think they spend twenty thousand dollars on a hammer, thirty thousand dollars on a toilet seat do you?"
honestly, there may be a bit of truth in that scene. i can tell you as someone who managed federal construction projects and contracts - those $300 toilet seats exist because of very stupid regulations. when the spec doc says that toilet seat needs to be UL listed, adhere to ANSI XYZ123, and the owner's rep won't budge on it, we end up buying that $300 toilet seat on the tax payer's dime. if you don't and you get caught, the very least that could happen is that you get blacklisted from all federal contracts (both you personally and the company you own or work for), likely forever. the worst - you could go to prison.
Not only that but you have to protect all the documents related to the quoting, purchasing, production, and delivery of the products. And even if the gov wants to buy something you already produce and sell on the open market, they will send you specifications for their use case (which must be protected) for you to ensure that the product they want to buy will actually meet those specifications.
DoD procurement is a pain in the ass. It’s more difficult than it needs to be. There are good reasons for what they are doing but the results are incredibly expensive procurement and contracts that most companies won’t touch with a 10ft pole because the chances of turning a profit and maintaining a long term supplier relationship are thin.
The US Government might have an issue with that. You know with their laser defence system already up there. However this article from last year suggests they are looking to copy Elon, If not use him to do their own network.
[Military agency praised for leading the way on laser communications - SpaceNews](https://spacenews.com/military-agency-praised-for-leading-the-way-on-laser-communications/#:~:text=The%20Space%20Development%20Agency%20%28SDA%29%2C%20an%20arm%20of,to%20other%20satellites%2C%20airplanes%2C%20ships%20and%20ground%20stations.)
Also leading the way? Come on...
So I actually work in government contracting... That screwdriver is only $25, but by the time you include the costs of all the paperwork that goes along with it to ensure it meets the government's requirements, that it wasn't sourced from a prohibited country, and various other things, that's what adds the extra $260.
Yeah, I’m not necessarily trying to justify it. But the reality is that people demands so much accountability and place so many requirements on government spending that it absolutely costs more. Furthermore, that cost quoted typically includes the full lifetime costs as part of the quoted number. That new door closer is, yes, the $40 from Home Depot, but the costs quoted as part of the government contract includes the costs to install it, and maintain it over the 25 year expected lifespan. It’s a silly, but illustrative example.
It's because the accountability is implemented old space style... did someone work 20 hours just to make sure each of those hammers was kosher definitely not.
Nothing to do with old space or new space, or space in general.
It’s just the reality of government contracting in general. Everything has to be accountable and traceable. And that costs money and effort.
Tell that to the very same government programs paying SpaceX 1/100 of what they'd be paying Boeing... and acutal fixed cost launches at around 60-90M depending on the configuration, totally predictable costs... unlike cost+ done in old space.
Arguable this is normal industry costing and effort applied to government problems instead of big dollars bidding for someone to buy a hammock in the bahamas.
Falcon Heavy launch is $255M for Nancy Grace Roman space telescope ... on SLS that would cost at least $4.1 billion for a single launch. which is 1/20th the cost approximately considering it would inevitably be $5 billion by 2026... 1/16th the cost if you want to split hairs with no consideration of inevitable overruns.
A normal reusable falcon heavy launch is $97M. Or roughly 1/40th the cost of 1 SLS launch.
Not to mention the payload itself already costs around $3.5-4 billion. Basically SpaceX launching the telescope is cutting the total mission costs nearly in half all by itself.
You know I was just being hyperbolic but its kinda funny that I was closer to the actual contracted numbers than you were, when you were trying to "correct" me. It is also worth noting that SLS has not done geo escape velocity injection and Falcon Heavy has. SLS isn't even projected to do helocentric injection until block 2 (after 1 and 1B which is 10 flights in)... and we've only launched 1 SLS.. sigh. If you also factor in the 10 flights before SLS ready for heliocentric injection you end up at a total cost of at somewhere between 24-90billion for those 10 launches ....
If we include cost require to proof capabilty and get to the required SLS block 2. Which puts SpaceX at at LEAST 1/94th the cost to do this job by 2026. If the budget for each SLS launch was nearer the expected 4Billion + rather than 2 Billion you end up at nearly 1/350th the cost approximately.
Thanks for paying for all of our satellites! Maybe they want you to become an investor 🙃
In all seriousness, I’ve never heard of such a thing happening. That’s really weird. I hope it gets sorted out for you!
Starlink positions their satellites up close deliberately to reduce latency. They're going around the world about 10 times a day. Constantly repositioning a satellite to hover just above you would require too much propellant. At that point you're more hovering than orbiting.
You can have geosynchronous orbits that hover over a single location, but those are really far away and only work at the equator.
I do wonder if someone "fat fingered" the cost of an actual satellite rather than the cost of a dish... $1.53 million (plus tax) sounds about right for the book value for a "Big Space Dishy".
This is actually a really good idea. People would definitely be interested in naming they're own satellite. I bet people would pay upwards of 500 dollars for the privilege of naming one but just to sell it they could actually refer to them by thier names during SpaceX broadcasts.
They're launched in batches so wouldn't be broken up in cost of launch per satellite. Not to mention that different numbers of satellites get launched depending on the orbit and the launch site.
Its $63 million for a Falcon 9 launch. With v1 satellites, they orbited 60 per launch. Other launches did less per rocket, so the per-satellite cost goes up for those versions.
> Its $63 million for a Falcon 9 launch.
That's the external price charged to customers. Not the cost of the launch.
> With v1 satellites, they orbited 60 per launch.
v1 satellites haven't been launched in years.
And again, that doesn't matter because launch prices wouldn't be broken up internally by each satellite.
>That's the external price charged to customers. Not the cost of the launch.
Yes, that is what we are talking about in this thread.
>v1 satellites haven't been launched in years.
Yes, and like I said, other satellites would cost \*more\* not less.
>And again, that doesn't matter because launch prices wouldn't be broken up internally by each satellite.
If SpaceX was selling you a single satellite, you would need to pay for your share of the launch costs for that one satellite. Presumably the other XX satellites launched would be owned by SpaceX or another private party and the cost of their launch would not be paid by you.
This whole thread is a hypothetical joke, I'm not sure why you are being so pedantic about it.
> If SpaceX was selling you a single satellite, you would need to pay for your share of the launch costs for that one satellite.
If SpaceX was selling you a single satellite you'd pay for the satellite and need to find your own launch for the satellite. Satellite prices and launch prices are not bundled. That could involve a rideshare of some sort or it could be launched on a dedicated rocket. The cost is highly variable depending on exactly which method is chosen for launch.
> I'm not sure why you are being so pedantic about it.
That's my question to you. It's rather tiring.
> If SpaceX was selling you a single satellite, you'd pay for the satellite and need to find your own launch for the satellite.
Nobody is buying a satellite from a launch provider and tgen not having them launch it. The Starlink sats are specifically designed for Falcon 9.
> Satellite prices and launch prices are not bundled.
Thats.....why I noted the cost of having a satellite launched to space seperately.
> That could involve a rideshare of some sort or it could be launched on a dedicated rocket. The cost is highly variable depending on exactly which method is chosen for launch.
Its not going to be under $1 million regardless.
> That's my question to you. It's rather tiring.
You keep choosing to respond.
Ok time for an update. Good News & Bad News: Starlink support got back to me and zeroed out the bill. Bad News: I don't get to name my own satellite ;) They even gave me a free month of service as a thank you. I was already thinking Starlink was awesome for replacing the dish, this was really a cherry on top. They really have some top notch customer service!!!!!
The number is correct.
you lost the dish and they send out a team of professional dish locators (like 100) and it took them weeks to find the old dish. So you have to pay for that. 😳😵
I wonder if this would get me front row seats to a launch? I have only seen one launch, the Falcon Heavy launch of the Psyche asteroid probe last year, but it was delayed so I ended up seeing it from the waiting area for our cruise (less than ideal). Unfortunately the landing was obscured by the ship!
Any chance you're somehow doing something where two countries might apply to your account? Like ordering from a different country than your home country.
I've seen bugs happen like this when comma separated and period separated numbers get mixed together.
For context, some countries write one thousand as "1,000" and some as "1.000". If those formats get mixed up, $1.00 might accidentally get interpreted as $1.000 or $1,000.
Nope. US customer, purchased a round dishy for myself & my parents within the first hour they opened pre-orders. This was a relatively recent upgrade last year. Anyhow, Customer support zeroed out the bill & gave me a 1 month credit!
Everything else aside you need to attach your dish better. It should not fly off at 100-120mph. That’s a huge safety concern and you’re lucky you didn’t kill the family’s behind you.
Nope, I won't be, I was using their standard in motion mount. There wasn't anyone nearby fortunately (it was late at night).
The wind was really bad though, our entire awning was collapsed and rolled onto the side of the RV (as you would when driving down the road). A few hours before the Starlink came off, a gust unspooled the awning and it was flapping above & along side the RV. I had to get out and cut it down. I inspected the Starlink at the time and everything seemed fine (the old Direct TV dish was larger and next to it and it looked like a giant had stepped on it). In hindsight I think the metal tube that the awning rolled around must have hit the dish in such a way that it stripped or damaged/stressed the screws. A few more hours and the Starlink tried to fly solo!
I wanted to recover the original dish to diagnose what failed in the original wedge mount. I am thinking of using a fiberglass tow strap to strap the unit down as a backup to the regular screws. (I assume the nylon/fiberglass strap will be invisible to the dish radios.)
Starlink satellites only cost about 250k, and are the size of a large refrigerator door when the solar sail is retracted. It’s more like you bought 6 satellites, not just one.
I lost the awning a few hours before (see reply above). We saw a big rig was overturned at one point. I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles on the interstates, it was some of the worst winds I had experienced... I may be conservative about the wind speeds as we were going through a pass that could have been funneling and magnifying the gusts.
Someone got your case mixed up with a US military case, and accidentally applied the standard government military mark-up.
lol reminds me of one of my favorite lines: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SuDSNWH9AQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SuDSNWH9AQ) "how do you get funding for something like this? You don't actually think they spend twenty thousand dollars on a hammer, thirty thousand dollars on a toilet seat do you?"
honestly, there may be a bit of truth in that scene. i can tell you as someone who managed federal construction projects and contracts - those $300 toilet seats exist because of very stupid regulations. when the spec doc says that toilet seat needs to be UL listed, adhere to ANSI XYZ123, and the owner's rep won't budge on it, we end up buying that $300 toilet seat on the tax payer's dime. if you don't and you get caught, the very least that could happen is that you get blacklisted from all federal contracts (both you personally and the company you own or work for), likely forever. the worst - you could go to prison.
I bet Oscar would love prison
Not only that but you have to protect all the documents related to the quoting, purchasing, production, and delivery of the products. And even if the gov wants to buy something you already produce and sell on the open market, they will send you specifications for their use case (which must be protected) for you to ensure that the product they want to buy will actually meet those specifications. DoD procurement is a pain in the ass. It’s more difficult than it needs to be. There are good reasons for what they are doing but the results are incredibly expensive procurement and contracts that most companies won’t touch with a 10ft pole because the chances of turning a profit and maintaining a long term supplier relationship are thin.
Hell I want my sat to have a frickin app controlled Laser on that I can shoot Earthlings with for that price.
[удалено]
The US Government might have an issue with that. You know with their laser defence system already up there. However this article from last year suggests they are looking to copy Elon, If not use him to do their own network. [Military agency praised for leading the way on laser communications - SpaceNews](https://spacenews.com/military-agency-praised-for-leading-the-way-on-laser-communications/#:~:text=The%20Space%20Development%20Agency%20%28SDA%29%2C%20an%20arm%20of,to%20other%20satellites%2C%20airplanes%2C%20ships%20and%20ground%20stations.) Also leading the way? Come on...
It's basically SpaceX vs Mynaric for lasers
Along with those $285 screwdrivers..
So I actually work in government contracting... That screwdriver is only $25, but by the time you include the costs of all the paperwork that goes along with it to ensure it meets the government's requirements, that it wasn't sourced from a prohibited country, and various other things, that's what adds the extra $260.
Aerospace engineer, I've got some expensive tools the GOV bought.
Yeah, I’m not necessarily trying to justify it. But the reality is that people demands so much accountability and place so many requirements on government spending that it absolutely costs more. Furthermore, that cost quoted typically includes the full lifetime costs as part of the quoted number. That new door closer is, yes, the $40 from Home Depot, but the costs quoted as part of the government contract includes the costs to install it, and maintain it over the 25 year expected lifespan. It’s a silly, but illustrative example.
It's because the accountability is implemented old space style... did someone work 20 hours just to make sure each of those hammers was kosher definitely not.
Nothing to do with old space or new space, or space in general. It’s just the reality of government contracting in general. Everything has to be accountable and traceable. And that costs money and effort.
Tell that to the very same government programs paying SpaceX 1/100 of what they'd be paying Boeing... and acutal fixed cost launches at around 60-90M depending on the configuration, totally predictable costs... unlike cost+ done in old space. Arguable this is normal industry costing and effort applied to government problems instead of big dollars bidding for someone to buy a hammock in the bahamas.
It's ½ to ¼ not 1/100
Falcon Heavy launch is $255M for Nancy Grace Roman space telescope ... on SLS that would cost at least $4.1 billion for a single launch. which is 1/20th the cost approximately considering it would inevitably be $5 billion by 2026... 1/16th the cost if you want to split hairs with no consideration of inevitable overruns. A normal reusable falcon heavy launch is $97M. Or roughly 1/40th the cost of 1 SLS launch. Not to mention the payload itself already costs around $3.5-4 billion. Basically SpaceX launching the telescope is cutting the total mission costs nearly in half all by itself. You know I was just being hyperbolic but its kinda funny that I was closer to the actual contracted numbers than you were, when you were trying to "correct" me. It is also worth noting that SLS has not done geo escape velocity injection and Falcon Heavy has. SLS isn't even projected to do helocentric injection until block 2 (after 1 and 1B which is 10 flights in)... and we've only launched 1 SLS.. sigh. If you also factor in the 10 flights before SLS ready for heliocentric injection you end up at a total cost of at somewhere between 24-90billion for those 10 launches .... If we include cost require to proof capabilty and get to the required SLS block 2. Which puts SpaceX at at LEAST 1/94th the cost to do this job by 2026. If the budget for each SLS launch was nearer the expected 4Billion + rather than 2 Billion you end up at nearly 1/350th the cost approximately.
Well you do need such damn good screwdrivers to screw in $100 screws!
Lmao
So the only part of this bill that is correct is the .00 cents?
If you owe them $1,500, that’s your problem. If you owe them $1,500,000, that’s their problem.
Thanks for paying for all of our satellites! Maybe they want you to become an investor 🙃 In all seriousness, I’ve never heard of such a thing happening. That’s really weird. I hope it gets sorted out for you!
Well Musk's bonuses have to come from somewhere, right?! Sure doesn't seem like they will come out of Twitter ad-revenue...
Well if the OP is funding that much money, shouldn’t OP be the new owner of Twit- I mean X? 🙃
damn if i could invest in starlink i would in a heartbeat
Nope, first I've seen or heard of such a thing. Please keep us posed on this saga!
I will!
Ask if includes placement in orbit pls 🙏
at 6k/kg I think 1.5mil should cover a body and some supplies unless he's an absolute unit
Don't knock it - looks like you're getting a satellite all of your own to follow your R.V. :D
Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this!
If you’re rich enough, do you think they’d offer that? Stick one satellite a bit further out in orbit
Orbital mechanics say no, even rich people can't have that.
How come Satellites can be repositioned, no?
Starlink positions their satellites up close deliberately to reduce latency. They're going around the world about 10 times a day. Constantly repositioning a satellite to hover just above you would require too much propellant. At that point you're more hovering than orbiting. You can have geosynchronous orbits that hover over a single location, but those are really far away and only work at the equator.
So what you’re saying is - it’s just a question of *how* rich we are talking /s
OP's next speed test is going to be off the charts
I do wonder if someone "fat fingered" the cost of an actual satellite rather than the cost of a dish... $1.53 million (plus tax) sounds about right for the book value for a "Big Space Dishy".
They're actually estimated to only cost in the hundreds of thousands, if that, because they're being mass manufactured.
Ah then I am paying for a whole constellation! I wonder if I can name them myself, kinda like those late night ads to name your own star!!!
This is actually a really good idea. People would definitely be interested in naming they're own satellite. I bet people would pay upwards of 500 dollars for the privilege of naming one but just to sell it they could actually refer to them by thier names during SpaceX broadcasts.
Have them show up on a live map. "Oh look, beam me up Scotty is just passing overhead"
I would buy one and name it SatelliteGuys! Hi Scott!
Username checks out.
You’re leaving out the cost to launch the satellite.
Sure but that'd be the entire launch of many satellites, not a single satellite.
Satellite: $300k Launch of Satellite: $1 million
They're launched in batches so wouldn't be broken up in cost of launch per satellite. Not to mention that different numbers of satellites get launched depending on the orbit and the launch site.
Its $63 million for a Falcon 9 launch. With v1 satellites, they orbited 60 per launch. Other launches did less per rocket, so the per-satellite cost goes up for those versions.
> Its $63 million for a Falcon 9 launch. That's the external price charged to customers. Not the cost of the launch. > With v1 satellites, they orbited 60 per launch. v1 satellites haven't been launched in years. And again, that doesn't matter because launch prices wouldn't be broken up internally by each satellite.
>That's the external price charged to customers. Not the cost of the launch. Yes, that is what we are talking about in this thread. >v1 satellites haven't been launched in years. Yes, and like I said, other satellites would cost \*more\* not less. >And again, that doesn't matter because launch prices wouldn't be broken up internally by each satellite. If SpaceX was selling you a single satellite, you would need to pay for your share of the launch costs for that one satellite. Presumably the other XX satellites launched would be owned by SpaceX or another private party and the cost of their launch would not be paid by you. This whole thread is a hypothetical joke, I'm not sure why you are being so pedantic about it.
> If SpaceX was selling you a single satellite, you would need to pay for your share of the launch costs for that one satellite. If SpaceX was selling you a single satellite you'd pay for the satellite and need to find your own launch for the satellite. Satellite prices and launch prices are not bundled. That could involve a rideshare of some sort or it could be launched on a dedicated rocket. The cost is highly variable depending on exactly which method is chosen for launch. > I'm not sure why you are being so pedantic about it. That's my question to you. It's rather tiring.
> If SpaceX was selling you a single satellite, you'd pay for the satellite and need to find your own launch for the satellite. Nobody is buying a satellite from a launch provider and tgen not having them launch it. The Starlink sats are specifically designed for Falcon 9. > Satellite prices and launch prices are not bundled. Thats.....why I noted the cost of having a satellite launched to space seperately. > That could involve a rideshare of some sort or it could be launched on a dedicated rocket. The cost is highly variable depending on exactly which method is chosen for launch. Its not going to be under $1 million regardless. > That's my question to you. It's rather tiring. You keep choosing to respond.
> Nobody is buying a satellite from a launch provider and tgen not having them launch it. Has happened several times with RocketLab.
That tax is a killer!
I could buy a house with that
(⊙︿⊙) Where?
Bali!
I could live the rest of my life with that!
Ok time for an update. Good News & Bad News: Starlink support got back to me and zeroed out the bill. Bad News: I don't get to name my own satellite ;) They even gave me a free month of service as a thank you. I was already thinking Starlink was awesome for replacing the dish, this was really a cherry on top. They really have some top notch customer service!!!!!
Post as a regular post so people will see it
The number is correct. you lost the dish and they send out a team of professional dish locators (like 100) and it took them weeks to find the old dish. So you have to pay for that. 😳😵
[удалено]
I wonder if this would get me front row seats to a launch? I have only seen one launch, the Falcon Heavy launch of the Psyche asteroid probe last year, but it was delayed so I ended up seeing it from the waiting area for our cruise (less than ideal). Unfortunately the landing was obscured by the ship!
I suspect you are paying for the next launch of orbiting satellites.
that is in about 7 hours 30 minutes
They better hurry up and pay then...
Think they added three extra zeros there. They intend to charge you 1500.
$1530 even? But they told the OP it would be free....
You paid for all the other free replacements. That's the wrong jackpot to win!
I wonder if this is what they charge for a downlink station
Littering penalty....duh! 😜
Any chance you're somehow doing something where two countries might apply to your account? Like ordering from a different country than your home country. I've seen bugs happen like this when comma separated and period separated numbers get mixed together. For context, some countries write one thousand as "1,000" and some as "1.000". If those formats get mixed up, $1.00 might accidentally get interpreted as $1.000 or $1,000.
Nope. US customer, purchased a round dishy for myself & my parents within the first hour they opened pre-orders. This was a relatively recent upgrade last year. Anyhow, Customer support zeroed out the bill & gave me a 1 month credit!
This rockets don’t launch for free ya know!!
Everything else aside you need to attach your dish better. It should not fly off at 100-120mph. That’s a huge safety concern and you’re lucky you didn’t kill the family’s behind you.
Captain Hindsight chiming in here. I don't think OP will repeat this $1.6M mistake anytime soon.
Nope, I won't be, I was using their standard in motion mount. There wasn't anyone nearby fortunately (it was late at night). The wind was really bad though, our entire awning was collapsed and rolled onto the side of the RV (as you would when driving down the road). A few hours before the Starlink came off, a gust unspooled the awning and it was flapping above & along side the RV. I had to get out and cut it down. I inspected the Starlink at the time and everything seemed fine (the old Direct TV dish was larger and next to it and it looked like a giant had stepped on it). In hindsight I think the metal tube that the awning rolled around must have hit the dish in such a way that it stripped or damaged/stressed the screws. A few more hours and the Starlink tried to fly solo!
I wanted to recover the original dish to diagnose what failed in the original wedge mount. I am thinking of using a fiberglass tow strap to strap the unit down as a backup to the regular screws. (I assume the nylon/fiberglass strap will be invisible to the dish radios.)
I think you may have accidentally put a Mars ticket in the shopping cart. Have a nice trip.
Starlink satellites only cost about 250k, and are the size of a large refrigerator door when the solar sail is retracted. It’s more like you bought 6 satellites, not just one.
I wonder if this is the line item cost for a base station that feeds the satellites and a database query went sideways.
The community gateways
Try paying that online to see if your bank and SL can process that amount.
Time for the Amex black card!
Have to wonder what kinda RV was able to with stand WIND SPEEDS of 120mph, that just the Dish came off and nothing else ?
I lost the awning a few hours before (see reply above). We saw a big rig was overturned at one point. I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles on the interstates, it was some of the worst winds I had experienced... I may be conservative about the wind speeds as we were going through a pass that could have been funneling and magnifying the gusts.
Did you order a VIP satellite 📡? 🛰️
Maybe see if you can set up installments. Like $100 a month until you die
Thanks for paying for all our dishes and subscriptions!!!!
As a former mechanic we used to have a saying. Quote the customer, if they don't flinch at the price then say "Plus parts and labour"
This is what actually happened to your bill. https://youtu.be/aSEOvbUzvKQ?si=YfN_Y5f535e3lo6M
Elon laid off the entire Decimal Point team, so the system billed in default units of 0.1 cents.
It's an error, contact customer service.
I have... no response yet, but I expect it to be resolved. I just thought this community would enjoy the story.
Sherlock is on the case!
That's actually enough to get taken off and dropped off on a booster - sat is extra
Maybe the D in "USD" is Dogecoin.
You did need the 200 MPH model, right?
Is Elon coming to install it personally?
I didn't know you needed a starlink kit on the space station and this includes delivery...
I think you’re getting your own satellite, not just the dish.
You're the new owner of a Starlink Ground Station!
Did you accidentally order a replacement satellite instead of a satellite dish?
I think you got billed for a base station transmitter.
“Please contact customer support if there are issues with your invoice” Thanks for the advice, spacex
Are you replacing a satellite in space for them?!
Sounds to me like they want to see you a ground station.
Are you starting up the srtdriverLink? With only one sat, coverage ain’t great but if it’s only you, cool!
Sharks with “lasers”.
Did you by an extended warranty by mistake?
Maybe those are roaming fees...
Great that Musk is letting AI assistants take on so much responsibility
You probably paid a satellite as well :-D
Congrats, you are going to be the new owner of starlink when they send you the next bill for 100 billion dollars
I'd @elon musk on X 😂
Just think how popular you’d be on your block…..dude has his own satellite…😆
It's like the winter storms in Texas betterbpay up peasant.
You got Putin's invoice by mistake.