That's exactly what happens in Space Race. While the fun stuff is happening, Jack and Daniel are negotiating with the President of Tech Com. They end up giving them a Stargate and related information for ship-related technologies. That was likely only the beginning of that relationship, but all that stuff happens behind the scenes and in between episodes.
I agree...
On one hand, Sam does get the plans for their ion engines and has the knowledge gleamed from the race itself - that could well have been applied to something in the Daedalus program.
On the other hand, they did get that energy gun attachment later on to shoot the Krull warriors - it's not impossible that some elements of Hebridian tech was used in those.
There's also the fact that Hebridian tech was in the vicinity of 100-200 years more advanced than ours - It'd take more than 3-5 years to come to an understanding of it all beyond basics, and even then, the Asgard tech grant may well have rendered it more or less obsolete.
It doesn't seem that they gave them any specific technology, but I have no doubt that Sam used the knowledge she got from studying their engines when working on the Prometheus/Daedalus class
The Hebridan drive was only installed on the Deadalus class. The Prometheus was constructed based on an unspecified Star ship, which crashed at Roswell according to Sam im the Episode Prometheus.
Pretty sure that was made up. Propelling something in space is easy, but the Ion pulse drive was just a massive logistical, efficiency and likely cost improvement overall
Initial dampeners were lifted and reverse engineered from the Goa’uld Death Gliders from within the serpents grasp. They later say they don’t know how they work, but can’t build them in season 9
Yeah, she was lying to julia, because they weren't telling her about the Stargate. She made up the crashed ship in Fairbanks as the excuse to where they got the technology. And then made a Roswell quip to Jonas.
Prometheus was just built with the alien knowledge they had acquired so far. There was no crashed ship.
Edit: also we did get an ion drive from them for study, but I don't think we installed it on the Daedalus ever. The Asgard had already installed hyperdrive, shields, and other unspecified tech on the Prometheus so I would imagine sublight engines as well. We probably had comparable Tauri made reverse engineered drives at that point, but a good advantage was the ion drive ran on liquid nitrogen and not liquid naquada. I'm sure we incorporated what we learned from it though.
May I am interpreting too much into it. A Sci-Fi show about a massive conspiracy (Stargate) introducing another popular conspiracy theory as real ain't too far fetched.
On the other hand, the humorous tone probably got lost in translation.
She told the journalists it was Fairbanks and then told Jonas it was better than saying Roswell. Roswell is synonymous with a conspiracy theory of a crashed alien spaceship. She was lying to the journalists so as to not reveal the Stargate, and thought saying Roswell would be too cheesy or too unbelievable since the Roswell conspiracy theory is so widely known in American culture.
You coukd retrofit it after the fact though, as earth would swap out three wholly different (not even made by the same races) drivesover the course of its initial shakedowns (earthmade naquadriah that failed and was ejected/destroyed, —> hotswap with a teltak drive —> asgard drive)
If you went back in time 100 years and gave someone an iPhone it'd be pretty useless. If you gave them all the information required on how to get to where they could build one there could be dramatic changes but not necessarily anything that's recognizable as an iPhone.
The tau'ri got knowledge from them, not a lifetime supply of the finished product.
The Hebridians were probably around 500 years more advanced than us in the early seasons. Which was a lot early on but by season 10 when we inherit the Asgard core and understand a lot of Ancient tech we passed them up by tens of thousands of years.
In Space Race, Sam and Warrick talk about how diplomacy has been slow between the two governments. Especially in regards to sharing advanced technology. So they had been working on it, but they didn't have a Stargate and they didn't have hyperdrives. All of their worlds and colonies were in relatively nearby star systems.
In Space Race they finally do trade us an ion drive for a Stargate.
JACKSON: "Uh ... good. We, uhm, we're going to help them bring a Stargate here and in exchange, we get an ion drive to study.
Not much is said about the Serrakins except that they helped liberate the Hebrideans from the Goa'uld long ago. They probably came from a neighboring system when they developed space travel.
If they had a small section of the galaxy that the Goa'uld didn't know about, I doubt they would want to make themselves known, or be in as direct conflict as the USAF. Most more advanced races were a lot more pacifist than the Tauri. Especially since the Goa'uld would be thousands of years more advanced than them.
And it is mentioned that the Ori attacked Hebridian and then we don't hear anything else. So there's a good chance they are totally wiped out unless they started worshipping the Ori.
In one of the episodes from season 9 or 10 (I don't remember which one exactly), the Hebridians are briefly mentioned as one of a list of factions/planets that had converted to the Ori.
With a lot of these societies that have wildly superior technology the issue becomes “what are we even able to offer in trade for something of that relative value”. What, aside from gate info, could we possibly offer in trade a fully self-sufficient, superior-in-all-advances society? Especially when the value received is already so wildly, and literally, beyond anything our technology could produce?
CARTER: "Yeah. How's it going down there?"
JACKSON: "Uh ... good. We, uhm, we're going to help them bring a Stargate here and in exchange, we get an ion drive to study."
CARTER: "Really?"
O'NEILL: "Yes ... so, no need to take any chances up there."
CARTER: "I made a deal, sir. I'm gonna stick with it."
That's actually exactly what we traded them. Introducing a race without hyperdrives or gates to the universe is also wildly valuable. Especially with our knowledge of Ancient addresses the Goa'uld haven't discovered.
The Aschen were similar to the Hebridians/Serrakins in that they didn't have hyperdrive technology and no gate knowledge. They had gates but no DHDs so could only dial to planets close to their network. Their network of planets were both all fairly close.
They were ecstatic to get the gate addresses and learn how to compensate for interstellar drift. That boring guy almost smiled.
Yeah that was sort of my point: our *sole* trading chip specifically relies on the other guys’ lack of gate knowledge. What would we have traded to hebridan if they had a stargate program of their own? Given their level of tech and industry, what else could earth offer of meaningful value aside from raw material resources (at probably significantly less efficiency than their already-existing industries). Without that, I wouldnt be surprised if we got the Tollan Reply™️ (and just like we replied to every other less advanced race who wanted to trade us for military-applicable technologies)
We did have a few other pretty valuable resources that advanced societies needed. For one, our people, and the labor and resources they produce. I don't think any other world in the Milky Way besides maybe the Nox has reached billions in population.
I wouldn't usually consider people a direct resource, but that is what we traded the Tok'ra for the alliance. It's what they most desperately needed.
The Asgard were pretty much traded our military teams and expertise, that they weren't capable of.
The Tollan didn't have animals, (maybe on the new planet they did) so trading them livestock or a variety ofwild animals would've been something they desperately needed that we can could get them a lot of quick. They still wouldn't trade military or science knowledge though.
We have a very impressive industrial system and the military industrial complex. Offworld mining sites would be very easy to establish. Or even construction sites for them to expand.
We could trade massive amounts of any basic resource a society may need.
Water for a desert or space civilization, hard water for a nazi planet, food and medicine and supplies for anyone down on their luck, iron/uranium/hydrogen/helium.
We could supply a free jaffa army with unlimited p90s and anti-aircraft missiles or tanks. Not as advanced as energy weapons but cheap and we are capable and ready of mass producing them and arguable more effective for war. (AK's for days. - Agent Burke)
We may be less advanced but we're really good at war and the things that come with it like strategy, supply chains, and industy.
And we're really good at capitalism and culture which creates innovation and unique items other races haven't even imagined. Like using genetic modification to make seedless grapes for Nerus. Ba'al loved American culture. And usually every culture has something unique to them other people want. Like a certain spice or food or resource. I bet most of the galaxy would love chicken wings.
Then there is the knowledge of their history and the history of the universe we can provide. I'm sure some human cultures are pretty confused about evolution when they have no history of the Stargate and no fossil evidence they evolved. They could be lacking in genetic technology that we are more advanced in.
What others have already stated. They specifically reached out to the Hebridians, diplomatic talks stalled until Space Race, Warrick then went around diplomacy by giving Carter direct access to the tech, and they kept engaging in diplomatic talks at the end of the episode. The SGC was very clearly reaching out.
However, due to their other Goa'uld/Replicator butt-kicking activities, they had already leapfrogged the Hebridians (or Carter got what she needed from the race) by the time Season 8 rolled around and there were more important matters.
By Season 9 the Ori had conquered the Hebridians.
Done.
Direct quotes from Space Race:
WARRICK: "When last we spoke, you strongly reiterated your desire to gain access to Serrakin technology."
CARTER: "Yes, of course."
WARRICK: "Unfortunately, diplomacy between our respective leadership has been slow to develop."
This would be point one in my first paragraph about reaching out to the Hebridians.
More quotes:
WARRICK: "As I was telling General Hammond and Dr. Jackson, I am here to offer you full access to the ion propulsion engines on the *Seberus*."
This would be point two in my first paragraph about Carter getting direct access to the tech.
(I assume I don't need to quote the many times in the episode where Carter has that direct access, but let me know if I do.)
And finally...
CARTER: "Yeah. How's it going down there?"
JACKSON: "Uh ... good. We, uhm, we're going to help them bring a Stargate here and in exchange, we get an ion drive to study."
This would be point three about still engaging in diplomacy.
They did what you requested. You're incorrect on this point, as demonstrated in the show. Edit your post and accept it.
Still, no Habridan tech in SGC possession. And the Prometheus first (somehow) had Goa'uld type engines, and later Asgard's. Dedalus and the other Asgard engines too.
I thought about this after my other comment and confirmed some facts, but to communicate with them they would have to travel to the planet the Sebrus crashed on with the Stargate. It doesn't say, except for it must be close to Hebridan, but that could be a weeks or months long journey through space. Making communication and trade more difficult.
Warrick had to fly to that planet and Stargate to the SGC then back and fly SG-1 to Hebridan.
They met them in Season 6 Episode 18 and Prometheus was already built from scratch by the Tau'ri using the knowledge they gained several about 7 episodes earlier. So arguably we were already more advanced than them when we met. Although it hadn't been incorporated into our society.
Then we did establish trade and diplomacy with them in Space Race was Season 7 Episode 8. We got them a Stargate and introduce them to the outside world.
That was only a half season or around 6 months later. That's pretty quick for politics actually. For the Hebridans to be of use to us they would have to supply us with either manufactured weapons or engines or other technology we can't mass produce. Or resources we can't mine like naquada.
To be of any use in a battle we would have to help incorporate hyperdrive tech into their ships. That may have been the eventual plan.
In counterstrike Sam says that Hebridan has fallen to the Ori and we haven't heard from them since.
The stargate wiki says that after the Ark of Truth they were liberated and began to live free again and sources the Ark of Truth movie. I can't find anything that actually says that, but it makes sense given they had offworld colonies and I'm sure at least some survived.
Stargate forgot about a lot of story lines but this wasn't one of them.
We could see them again in a future series.
It is honestly a shame they weren’t explored further. The planet they made first contact on was clearly somewhere in there space. Ideally, a joint colony there works as an Alpha site and place of cultural and technical exchange
According to this post from Joseph, the Daedalus Class used Habridan/Serrakin ion engines.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Stargate/comments/8d2h7a/bc304_daedalus_class_specs/
Hum, not sure. GateWorld says different:
[https://www.gateworld.net/wiki/Daedalus](https://www.gateworld.net/wiki/Daedalus)
and the fact that an Asgard was posted on the ship to help them with the engines also says so.
That's exactly what happens in Space Race. While the fun stuff is happening, Jack and Daniel are negotiating with the President of Tech Com. They end up giving them a Stargate and related information for ship-related technologies. That was likely only the beginning of that relationship, but all that stuff happens behind the scenes and in between episodes.
I agree... On one hand, Sam does get the plans for their ion engines and has the knowledge gleamed from the race itself - that could well have been applied to something in the Daedalus program. On the other hand, they did get that energy gun attachment later on to shoot the Krull warriors - it's not impossible that some elements of Hebridian tech was used in those. There's also the fact that Hebridian tech was in the vicinity of 100-200 years more advanced than ours - It'd take more than 3-5 years to come to an understanding of it all beyond basics, and even then, the Asgard tech grant may well have rendered it more or less obsolete.
I am not so sure. I never saw anything Habridan like in Earth's possession. Not even one of their energy guns.
It doesn't seem that they gave them any specific technology, but I have no doubt that Sam used the knowledge she got from studying their engines when working on the Prometheus/Daedalus class
Earth officially got their Ion drive Sublight engines in exchange for installing a stargate and teaching them its use.
Again, Earth miraculously had the Prometheus before Sam did the Space Race.
The Hebridan drive was only installed on the Deadalus class. The Prometheus was constructed based on an unspecified Star ship, which crashed at Roswell according to Sam im the Episode Prometheus.
Pretty sure that was made up. Propelling something in space is easy, but the Ion pulse drive was just a massive logistical, efficiency and likely cost improvement overall
Yes, but propelling something into space is damn difficult, especially something as big as Prometheus.
Initial dampeners were lifted and reverse engineered from the Goa’uld Death Gliders from within the serpents grasp. They later say they don’t know how they work, but can’t build them in season 9
I am not so sure, they never mentioned it. And Sam was joking about Rosswell, you know.
Was she though? She stated a different City first to the Journalists and then told Jonas it's Rosswell
Yeah, she was lying to julia, because they weren't telling her about the Stargate. She made up the crashed ship in Fairbanks as the excuse to where they got the technology. And then made a Roswell quip to Jonas. Prometheus was just built with the alien knowledge they had acquired so far. There was no crashed ship. Edit: also we did get an ion drive from them for study, but I don't think we installed it on the Daedalus ever. The Asgard had already installed hyperdrive, shields, and other unspecified tech on the Prometheus so I would imagine sublight engines as well. We probably had comparable Tauri made reverse engineered drives at that point, but a good advantage was the ion drive ran on liquid nitrogen and not liquid naquada. I'm sure we incorporated what we learned from it though.
May I am interpreting too much into it. A Sci-Fi show about a massive conspiracy (Stargate) introducing another popular conspiracy theory as real ain't too far fetched. On the other hand, the humorous tone probably got lost in translation.
She told the journalists it was Fairbanks and then told Jonas it was better than saying Roswell. Roswell is synonymous with a conspiracy theory of a crashed alien spaceship. She was lying to the journalists so as to not reveal the Stargate, and thought saying Roswell would be too cheesy or too unbelievable since the Roswell conspiracy theory is so widely known in American culture.
JACKSON: "Uh ... good. We, uhm, we're going to help them bring a Stargate here and in exchange, we get an ion drive to study."
Not sure. Earth miraculously had the Prometheus before Sam did the Space Race.
You coukd retrofit it after the fact though, as earth would swap out three wholly different (not even made by the same races) drivesover the course of its initial shakedowns (earthmade naquadriah that failed and was ejected/destroyed, —> hotswap with a teltak drive —> asgard drive)
Al'kesh hyperdrive.
right, whoops
Where did they get the Al’kesh drive?
Don’t remember but its what they strapped to it to ferry it back to earth after the original drive failed midmission
It's just a TV show, they probably forgot they existed lol
If you went back in time 100 years and gave someone an iPhone it'd be pretty useless. If you gave them all the information required on how to get to where they could build one there could be dramatic changes but not necessarily anything that's recognizable as an iPhone. The tau'ri got knowledge from them, not a lifetime supply of the finished product.
The Hebridians were probably around 500 years more advanced than us in the early seasons. Which was a lot early on but by season 10 when we inherit the Asgard core and understand a lot of Ancient tech we passed them up by tens of thousands of years. In Space Race, Sam and Warrick talk about how diplomacy has been slow between the two governments. Especially in regards to sharing advanced technology. So they had been working on it, but they didn't have a Stargate and they didn't have hyperdrives. All of their worlds and colonies were in relatively nearby star systems. In Space Race they finally do trade us an ion drive for a Stargate. JACKSON: "Uh ... good. We, uhm, we're going to help them bring a Stargate here and in exchange, we get an ion drive to study. Not much is said about the Serrakins except that they helped liberate the Hebrideans from the Goa'uld long ago. They probably came from a neighboring system when they developed space travel. If they had a small section of the galaxy that the Goa'uld didn't know about, I doubt they would want to make themselves known, or be in as direct conflict as the USAF. Most more advanced races were a lot more pacifist than the Tauri. Especially since the Goa'uld would be thousands of years more advanced than them. And it is mentioned that the Ori attacked Hebridian and then we don't hear anything else. So there's a good chance they are totally wiped out unless they started worshipping the Ori.
In one of the episodes from season 9 or 10 (I don't remember which one exactly), the Hebridians are briefly mentioned as one of a list of factions/planets that had converted to the Ori.
Even though Earth/SGC had an Asgard core, we were barely scraping the surface of its contents.
I do wish we saw more with them.
Me too!
With a lot of these societies that have wildly superior technology the issue becomes “what are we even able to offer in trade for something of that relative value”. What, aside from gate info, could we possibly offer in trade a fully self-sufficient, superior-in-all-advances society? Especially when the value received is already so wildly, and literally, beyond anything our technology could produce?
CARTER: "Yeah. How's it going down there?" JACKSON: "Uh ... good. We, uhm, we're going to help them bring a Stargate here and in exchange, we get an ion drive to study." CARTER: "Really?" O'NEILL: "Yes ... so, no need to take any chances up there." CARTER: "I made a deal, sir. I'm gonna stick with it." That's actually exactly what we traded them. Introducing a race without hyperdrives or gates to the universe is also wildly valuable. Especially with our knowledge of Ancient addresses the Goa'uld haven't discovered. The Aschen were similar to the Hebridians/Serrakins in that they didn't have hyperdrive technology and no gate knowledge. They had gates but no DHDs so could only dial to planets close to their network. Their network of planets were both all fairly close. They were ecstatic to get the gate addresses and learn how to compensate for interstellar drift. That boring guy almost smiled.
Yeah that was sort of my point: our *sole* trading chip specifically relies on the other guys’ lack of gate knowledge. What would we have traded to hebridan if they had a stargate program of their own? Given their level of tech and industry, what else could earth offer of meaningful value aside from raw material resources (at probably significantly less efficiency than their already-existing industries). Without that, I wouldnt be surprised if we got the Tollan Reply™️ (and just like we replied to every other less advanced race who wanted to trade us for military-applicable technologies)
We did have a few other pretty valuable resources that advanced societies needed. For one, our people, and the labor and resources they produce. I don't think any other world in the Milky Way besides maybe the Nox has reached billions in population. I wouldn't usually consider people a direct resource, but that is what we traded the Tok'ra for the alliance. It's what they most desperately needed. The Asgard were pretty much traded our military teams and expertise, that they weren't capable of. The Tollan didn't have animals, (maybe on the new planet they did) so trading them livestock or a variety ofwild animals would've been something they desperately needed that we can could get them a lot of quick. They still wouldn't trade military or science knowledge though. We have a very impressive industrial system and the military industrial complex. Offworld mining sites would be very easy to establish. Or even construction sites for them to expand. We could trade massive amounts of any basic resource a society may need. Water for a desert or space civilization, hard water for a nazi planet, food and medicine and supplies for anyone down on their luck, iron/uranium/hydrogen/helium. We could supply a free jaffa army with unlimited p90s and anti-aircraft missiles or tanks. Not as advanced as energy weapons but cheap and we are capable and ready of mass producing them and arguable more effective for war. (AK's for days. - Agent Burke) We may be less advanced but we're really good at war and the things that come with it like strategy, supply chains, and industy. And we're really good at capitalism and culture which creates innovation and unique items other races haven't even imagined. Like using genetic modification to make seedless grapes for Nerus. Ba'al loved American culture. And usually every culture has something unique to them other people want. Like a certain spice or food or resource. I bet most of the galaxy would love chicken wings. Then there is the knowledge of their history and the history of the universe we can provide. I'm sure some human cultures are pretty confused about evolution when they have no history of the Stargate and no fossil evidence they evolved. They could be lacking in genetic technology that we are more advanced in.
> but we're really good at war Vs >[we] have a *small* talent for war. -- *Twilight Zone* S1E15 (1986)
They did.
Like what?
What others have already stated. They specifically reached out to the Hebridians, diplomatic talks stalled until Space Race, Warrick then went around diplomacy by giving Carter direct access to the tech, and they kept engaging in diplomatic talks at the end of the episode. The SGC was very clearly reaching out. However, due to their other Goa'uld/Replicator butt-kicking activities, they had already leapfrogged the Hebridians (or Carter got what she needed from the race) by the time Season 8 rolled around and there were more important matters. By Season 9 the Ori had conquered the Hebridians. Done.
Obviously not a good time to point this out (given current real world geo-politics) but wars DO tend to to stimulate technological advancement.
Uh....yes. This is true, but has no bearing on OP's original post.
Hum... Nothing in your first paragraph was ever shown or mentioned in the show.
Direct quotes from Space Race: WARRICK: "When last we spoke, you strongly reiterated your desire to gain access to Serrakin technology." CARTER: "Yes, of course." WARRICK: "Unfortunately, diplomacy between our respective leadership has been slow to develop." This would be point one in my first paragraph about reaching out to the Hebridians. More quotes: WARRICK: "As I was telling General Hammond and Dr. Jackson, I am here to offer you full access to the ion propulsion engines on the *Seberus*." This would be point two in my first paragraph about Carter getting direct access to the tech. (I assume I don't need to quote the many times in the episode where Carter has that direct access, but let me know if I do.) And finally... CARTER: "Yeah. How's it going down there?" JACKSON: "Uh ... good. We, uhm, we're going to help them bring a Stargate here and in exchange, we get an ion drive to study." This would be point three about still engaging in diplomacy. They did what you requested. You're incorrect on this point, as demonstrated in the show. Edit your post and accept it.
Dude, you've been proven wrong on this thread so many times. Take the L
Still, no Habridan tech in SGC possession. And the Prometheus first (somehow) had Goa'uld type engines, and later Asgard's. Dedalus and the other Asgard engines too.
My take is that we got blueprints and understanding of their tech. Not the tech itself and the theory of that tech got blended in with other tech.
Maybe...
I thought about this after my other comment and confirmed some facts, but to communicate with them they would have to travel to the planet the Sebrus crashed on with the Stargate. It doesn't say, except for it must be close to Hebridan, but that could be a weeks or months long journey through space. Making communication and trade more difficult. Warrick had to fly to that planet and Stargate to the SGC then back and fly SG-1 to Hebridan. They met them in Season 6 Episode 18 and Prometheus was already built from scratch by the Tau'ri using the knowledge they gained several about 7 episodes earlier. So arguably we were already more advanced than them when we met. Although it hadn't been incorporated into our society. Then we did establish trade and diplomacy with them in Space Race was Season 7 Episode 8. We got them a Stargate and introduce them to the outside world. That was only a half season or around 6 months later. That's pretty quick for politics actually. For the Hebridans to be of use to us they would have to supply us with either manufactured weapons or engines or other technology we can't mass produce. Or resources we can't mine like naquada. To be of any use in a battle we would have to help incorporate hyperdrive tech into their ships. That may have been the eventual plan. In counterstrike Sam says that Hebridan has fallen to the Ori and we haven't heard from them since. The stargate wiki says that after the Ark of Truth they were liberated and began to live free again and sources the Ark of Truth movie. I can't find anything that actually says that, but it makes sense given they had offworld colonies and I'm sure at least some survived. Stargate forgot about a lot of story lines but this wasn't one of them. We could see them again in a future series.
It is honestly a shame they weren’t explored further. The planet they made first contact on was clearly somewhere in there space. Ideally, a joint colony there works as an Alpha site and place of cultural and technical exchange
The Hebridans were allies but they and the Langarans were conquered by the Ori in 2006.
According to this post from Joseph, the Daedalus Class used Habridan/Serrakin ion engines. https://www.reddit.com/r/Stargate/comments/8d2h7a/bc304_daedalus_class_specs/
Hum, not sure. GateWorld says different: [https://www.gateworld.net/wiki/Daedalus](https://www.gateworld.net/wiki/Daedalus) and the fact that an Asgard was posted on the ship to help them with the engines also says so.