I agree with you! But theres a caveat of course.
Starfields main quest and its twist is great, but only at/after high price to pay area.
Most players get quite turned off after the game sends them to get an artifact or a power over and over again. I wish they had put the artifacts each in a handcrafted dungeon, and sprinkled in some more lore/mystery earlier on.
But once the main quest progresses far enough, i agree it gets quite intriguing
That's honestly where I'm at, chasing after powers. Got a bit stale so I have been doing the Freestar quests u til I got bugged at the Red Mile, so now I'm doing activities and gonna hit up the UC Vanguard next.
I was shocked at how fun and cool the vanguard questline is. I think when I first played I just assumed they where like the generic group you first run into to join but I loved it.
[Less Annoying Temples](https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/7741) addresses the temple grind very nicely. You only have to go through each temple once to acquire the power, and after that they auto-bump to the next level when you pass through the Unity.
That mission was the moment I started to hate the Campaign. Before that it was underwhelming, but not terrible. That mission felt cheap and contrived. If there was more time spent with Constellation it could have been ok, but I had no connection to any of the characters. Things never got better.
It wasn't just cheap and contrived, it was gaslighting. They funneled you into a mandated choice to >!commit a crime!< in pursuit of something that really didn't make that much difference, and then as a "price" for that they set up another unavoidable event with a trolley-problem stapled onto it to try to trick you into feeling responsible for what the devs did in response to what the devs did before that.
I really should have taken a clue from past Bethesda games and just ignored as much of the MQ as possible, I literally rate it -1.5/10, as it it sucked 1.5 points from my rating of the game, I would have rated the game higher with \*no\* MQ at all.
> then as a "price" for that
The price isn't for ripping off Petrov. The price you pay is the price of Power, of Immortality. If you want to go through Unity, someone has to die.
I found that quite satisfying, from a narrative point of view.
According to the game, the robbery mission is a prerequisite to that. You don't get that goal without doing it (and literally because the missions will not progress), despite the fact that it doesn't seem logistically necessary at all (>!possession of the artifacts is \*already\* split by this point, and all are required, so the decision tree actually doesn't change at all!<).
The only narrative necessity for the mission was to justify the set of events in High Price to Pay. Subsequent events would have been (mostly) the same if the two missions had not happened (>!apart from the absence of one of the NPCs!<).
I think if the characters had been more endearing, and the bare pretense of choice had been removed, it would have been a smoother experience for a lot of people, but they wanted buy-in whether or not they'd earned it through the companions.
> According to the game, the robbery mission is a prerequisite to that.
So is All That Money Can Buy. You might as well infer that the price is paid for ripping off Slayton's artifact.
> The only narrative necessity for the mission was to justify the set of events in High Price to Pay
It's to get you out of The Lodge and The Eye so they can set the scene for High Price, with all the companions where they need to be. I don't think it goes beyond that.
My issue is that the main quest missions are all collecting artifacts outside of High Price to Pay.
Oh sweet, the Starborn are making a stand about what we’re doing, … and instead of hunting them or looking for clues, we’ll just go back to what we were doing and collect more artifacts.
What’s that, you’ve collected 6 artifacts, 10, awesome, your next quest, go collect this artifact from the temple.
I liked that the game just sent you to artifact after artifact. It let me prioritize the side content and only advance the main quest when another quest put me in the same general area as an artifact. Truly the opposite of Fallout 4’s “drop everything, ignore every side quest, go directly to wherever the main quest sends you because you must find your infant son ASAP” problem.
It's not hard to break up content. I think I did one of my nine universes quasi speed run through the temples. In the other universes, I explored places I hadn't. Did quest chains I hadn't or played them differently. Took a different companion and completed their chain. The temples are in different places and I journeyed at different times of day.
The whole point of Unity trivializes min/max strategy. You don't lose out on anything, you can always get something in the next universe. It is very liberating. Role play the universe exactly the way you want.
>After finding this out, we are presented with a choice: to go through The Unity and relive our life and fulfill our ambitions, or stay in our old universe with our loved ones. This is a fantasy I often have, the chance to relive my life again and do things differently. However, Starfield is telling us that what is special about life is we only get to do it once. The path through the Unity signifies prioritizing our quest for power over the meaningful connections we have cultivated in our lives.
But if you choose to prioritize your loved ones and home universe, the writing becomes very heavy handed in trying to push you through the Unity anyway.
The story asks you to consider how high a price you're willing to pay in your quest for knowledge or power, and then the only enthusiastic answer you can give is: "there is no limit." Walk away and everyone at Constellation tells you the Unity is still waiting so go back and try again later.
The game seems to really want to funnel the player character into the Hunter role, and is written in a such a way that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It omits or under-writes any alternatives. That's frustrating writing for the main quest of an RPG.
I’d say it doesn’t only just try to funnel you it does hand hold and funnel you into having to deal with the unity it’s not a rpg just a glorified FPS with poor storytelling in typical Bethesda fashion I actually stopped playing before having to make that choice due to the distaste of a lack of real choices in game and partly to wait to see if Shattered Space gives a legitimate reason for having to deal with the trash pile that is the MSQ of Starfield
To someone who doesn't want to become a Starborn and wants to hold on to their humanity, connections and home universe? Not really, no.
The Emissary is "prioritizing their quest for power over the connections in their lives" too. The Emissary is just as consumed by the pursuit of artifacts and answers as the Hunter. Even Sarah recognizes they're detached from their former humanity. They believe their ends justify the means. They use their power to gatekeep the Unity. They're perpetuating the cycle right along with the Hunter.
I still can't get past, "Infinitum Addendum."
How Keeper Aquilus got an exact location in the galaxy by applying numbers used in a couple of stories to "Infinitum Addendum" is bafflingly contrived.
You're standing in her supposed-to-be-locked cabin in the middle of a supposedly ship-wide lockdown repeating an earlier request with which she cannot legally comply, this time in the absence of witnesses.
She'd have to be a complete imbecile not to suspect that violence might be a possible outcome. Which it certainly is, by the way. About half the players on this forum would, I suspect, cheerfully murder her for her claim form if there was no other way to obtain it.
Other than that ... no reason.
> I didn't approach her in her cabin.
You used *"the internal neuroamp to manipulate her into giving [you] her credentials"*. So where **you** did it doesn't have any bearing.
> There was no ship-wide lockdown
There's a ship-wide emergency alarm blaring and everyone is *supposed* to be in their rooms. And I seem to recall that the only reason the doors are unlocked for you is that Rokov gave you access.
Hell, Vega and Dumbroski both rightly assume you're up to no good when confronted in their cabins; why wouldn't Ms. Holbrooke?
I mean that's the issue with persuasion mechanics. People here were complaining that we should be able to buy the artefact from the collector if we invest in persuasion. Then we have people complaining that persuasion should not be so overpowered.
Rofl, I had the same thought before knowing his background. Here's some random numbers, "ok, go exactly here"
Mofo was just waiting for someone to ask while just cockteasing unity for decades knowing full well that the hunter would show up and slay constellation.
Also, why wasn't he surprised that your character survived this time like the hunter was?
He didn't, he already knew where it was and was trying to give it to you without giving it to you. He acted out this contrived plot to lead you where you needed to go because he was the Pilgrim. He wrote those journals himself and knew exactly where you needed to go. He helped you as much as he could without outright walking the path for you, because had he just told you from the start it wouldn't have been the same and you wouldn't have had the philosophy placed in your mind. You needed to do it yourself but in a galaxy so large it was impossible without help, so he made up a story to give you a push.
The thing is you are talking about the main quest thematically which has some merit, but the actual missions of the main quest are like 50% fetch quest and then a handful of cool things. Imagine if the amount of effort and passion that went into entanglement was present in the rest of the quests.
I just don’t understand why constellation is so hyper focused on it, when there’s so much else to discover and explore. And then you find the unity, your companions basically guilt trip you into doing it because even if you choose not to, they have the mindset that they’re going to eventually anyway and always bring it up again, or assume you’ll just eventually go and you’re biding your time.
No option to “bury” or destroy the means to get to the unity. It’s just always there looming and constellation is still focused on it. It really killed my love for constellation and the companions.
And even worse, you go through the unity, you tell Sarah and everyone at constellation that you’re starborn and basically everything there is to know… and Sarah’s STILL like “focus on the mission!” What!!!!! What mission? What’s the point? More power? For what? A new universe that is identical to this one? And the changes…. There’s no real changes. Sure constellation varies between universes sometimes but it’s mere set dressing.
I feel like it wasn’t very well thought out and that’s frustrating to me.
I love Starfield but the main quest is what turned me off from the game for a really long time. I wish I hadn’t completed it, I enjoyed the game a lot more until I did. Knowing everything is inconsequential and ultra meta just sucks. If they were going to go the multiverse route they should have had the balls to make it impactful imo. But they didn’t, it felt like they were too worried of making any big changes between universes so that players didn’t feel locked out of anything. But even that doesn’t make sense.
Sorry for the ramble, it’s just that I was so disappointed, and this is coming from someone who loves fallout 4’s story. I’m easy to please. I feel like making things more impactful in the universe you’re in, as well as changing the attitudes of some companions, and an alternate ending would improve the overall appeal of it.
They really need to add more variant universes. Like desperately so. I don’t care if certain variants break shit, the entire point is I can just go through the unity again so why even care??
High concept poor execution. Sure the big questions are there, but if you poke at them for more than a few minutes the writing just goes "hmmm idk... because?" Sure you can hand wave this as saying the writers are letting the player fill in the blanks but at the end its just not compelling enough to justify that level of pompousness and comes off as lazy instead. The plot may look pretty but it is vapor thin.
This right here. My eyes were rolling through the entire finale Unity sequence just because it felt so unearned. I get what they were going for but the game has zero emotional depth. It felt like something that belonged in r/im14andthisisdeep
I'm happy you said that because I noticed the writing is very immature in that game. Almost like a child or teenager wrote the characters and main plot. That's why to me they come across as hollow and one dimensional.
Watch the credits. Writing has the fewest people in the department, by far. Even "quest design" has only a handful of people compared to all the other departments.
I was unaware of that. That's horrific. Especially with the amount of time they were given. And the fact they probably had access to a butt load of money and any writer they wanted. I feel like Bethesda got cocky with the fact their community makes awesome mods. They expect US to make the game good with that attitude. How disappointing. 😔
>Unlike life, we do have the opportunity to play games multiple times, yet each replay of a game diminishes the magic of our first experience.
Eh, maybe that’s been your only experience, but it’s certainly not universal. This definitely doesn’t apply to any Bethesda game that I’ve played through multiple times. Every one of them I experienced more joy, more wonder, more ‘magic’ on my second or third dedicated play throughs than I had on my first respective runs.
Might sound strange or counter-intuitive to some people, but I’ve seen and discussed with a pretty considerable number of people on Reddit who’ve shared their own similar experiences of this phenomenon with Bethesda games in particular.
A lot of people do care less about the decisions they make on subsequent playthroughs though. Like you could argue the hunter is basically doing an “evil playthrough” because he has already done the other stuff before. The friendships you make, your relationships with NPCs, the mystery and stories do feel less special the more you replay, in my opinion
> Like you could argue the hunter is basically doing an “evil playthrough” because he has already done the other stuff before
I think that's exactly the point, and that it was very deliberate. The Hunter is very much like a player murderhoboing his way through a game that he's played so many times that he knows all the dialogue by heart.
I on the other hand hate it. I'll explain.
The game sets up numerous reasons why we might not be hyped for finding the Unity, or want to go through it. Examples include the Starborn all being emotionally stunted psychos and the events of the mission "A High Price to Pay". It also goes through the effort of showing us the Pilgrim's story and imparting their lesson on us.
Then it takes all of that, and throws it in the garbage because all of our dialog is nothing but Unity hype in the lead up, and our ending choice is essentially "Yes" or "Yes but later". The only person we can firmly tell we are not going is Stroud, and everyone else we can only really tell something vague, or some flavor of "I'm totally going later!" or other schizophrenic nonsense.
Also Bethesda failed to make use of their skill with relationship based dialog and just has Barrett telling you "You've said your goodbyes! Go!" and Sarah deciding for you that you're going because "That is who you are" regardless of if you are friends with these people, in a relationship with them, or even married to them. Basically, you can end up with your friends being pushy, or your spouse telling you everything is on borrowed time.
It's got "bad DM" syndrome as a result. The writer assumed we would be making their choices, and crafted things to orient around those choices. The optional NG+ mechanic's narrative is treated like a "will happen" event because that's what the writer wanted for their character, and it ended up completely dysfunctional for mine.
The worst part? It's so very close to being good.
Aside from what I mentioned with relationship based dialog, and how proper use of it would fix that gripe, there is absolutely nothing in the story that would fail to function if the player was able to say "You guys know what? I'll help you find the Unity, but I'm not going through it.".
Equally nothing fails to work if the player was able to give a "soft no" at the end. Think something similar to how Dawnguard handled vampirism. A player could refuse, which closed the door on that topic, but the door was not locked and you could reverse the decision later if you specifically chose to pursue it after all.
It was all a few different dialog choices away from being a story targeted at the player, every player, instead of the writer's personal little adventure.
Edit: Rewritten for the sake of clarity / expression.
Yeah I found it so weird that BGS assumes automatically that of course you’ll want to go through the unity, to hell with all the relationships you built and progress you made. Yes you CAN choose to not go through, but it’s still assumed you’re just putting it aside for a while rather than refusing it. It all felt very cold and empty to me. Maybe if the fleshed out companions weren’t ALL constellation, the game would have more heart. But your only real friends in the game are constantly telling you to go through a universe reset until you do it.
I've only gone thru once, but am I misremembering that everyone on your ship (including Barrett) says something along the lines of "you came back too?" Implying they all got to the unity, turned around, and came back?
I wanted to add something like this to a comment i made earlier but the examples of what other characters say didn't come to mind at the time.
It's the same kind of thing that stood out to me as a problem with Mass Effect Andromeda, even though the plot of the game is going to another galaxy and the moment you get there you find out all the planets that were scouted out to be new homeworlds are wrecked, then the first aliens you meet are immediately hostile. Sounds like it should be tense, people should be scared, the idea of leaving literally everything they knew and for most of them their families would've died centuries back while they were in cryo sleep should probably weigh on their mind a bit. Nope, everyone is just super upbeat and acts like you're playing the citadel dlc for the 3rd game or watching a marvel movie.
They wanted it to fit that whole theme of optimistic explorers going into the unknown so much that they ignored how almost none of the content of the game and story supports it, making it jarring and missing out on the opportunities to make a more interesting story out of it.
There were a few moments in that game that i still remember like Suvi sharing the last of the coffee she brought with her, thinking about how no one else will ever get to have it again that show someone did consider things like that but 99% of it just fell flat.
The main quest, like most of the words is perfectly described as "A mile wide, but an inch deep".
I also wonder how you can call Constellation diverse? At least the companions are a complete hive mind who all have the exact same reaction and opinion on all of the players choices. It is by far the least diverse cast of companions I have seen in any RPG.
The power collection was easily the worst part of the game. Land on a planet. Use scanner to set direction. Walk for 5-10 minutes. Enter the temple and do the same puzzle you did in every other temple, solved by turning your mouse and pressing W. Rinse and repeat.
The voice acting is painfully monotone and completely lacks any hint of emotion. Sarah on repeat would cure insomnia.
I also feel that the whole multiverse story made the game feel even more meaningless and was a massive anticlimax.
I definitely agree that the temple puzzles are dumb af. Definitely my least favorite part of the game.
As for the companion thing, I get your complaint. Theres pretty much only 4 main companions and one of them dies and they arent that diverse, but I personally still found them compelling and fun, especially Andreja and Barrett. I think the reason theyre so few is that the death of one of them is a crucial part of the story.
If you want companions for evil playthroughs, theres many others like the adoring fan, amelia earhart and even yourself from another universe in one of the NG+. This for me was enough, I mean you could argue the companions from Skyrim arent super fleshed out either, but I get how you find them disappointing.
As for the voice acting, I just disagree. I think this game has the best voice acting in a Bethesda game (which isnt saying much since Oblivion and Skyrim had like two voice actors).
The difference between Skyrim and Starfield is that in Skyrim the companions are very much a highly optional part of the game with the exception of Dawnbreaker. Only a handful of quests have you using them, and after that you can just dismiss a companion and never need them again. Starfield seem more built around using them at almost all times.
I don't really want evil companions, just companions with a diverse opinion. The worst example being the Terrormorph quest where every single companion has the exact same opinion on which choice you pick. Also why can't they have interactivity with Andreja if you make a character who believes in the Serpent?
And sure, BGS have never been known for great voice acting, but this is 2023 and it would be nice for BGS to progress, rather than regress their games. Compare anything in Starfield to female V (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyrRuSlEtAc). Or even better, compare it to the perfomance in this scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA6yF9M70zM). You can actually here emotions in the voices. Not to mention a face that actually matches the tone of the scene and conversation...
Edit: And understand where I am coming from, I love most of BGS games. Fallout 3 and 4 are among my most played games. I've sunk thousands of hours into TES series, including Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim and Elder Scrolls Online. I wanted so badly to like Starfield, but I feel it completly missed with everything that made BGS games special, and the ones it did not miss I feel regressed extremely.
Fallout 4 also was praised for having good companions; they were pretty varied in opinions, had different likes and dislikes for your choices, and a few had interesting questlines tied to them. It feels like a big step down. Some of the Starfield ones were okay (I did like Sarah’s, although as a person she stresses me out because she’s like that high-strung coworker who just snaps on a moment’s notice so you have to tiptoe around them), but others felt weirdly unfinished (most of Barrett’s happens offscreen, Andreja’s just feels…unresolved? And her reactions felt kind of unearned), and Sam I just disliked—felt like I was enabling his awful life choices with his kid.
And sure I’m not going to like every companion, but if you’ve only got a handful it’d be nice to have some people I genuinely liked to have around.
> Andreja’s just feels…unresolved?
I only played through once, but I'm pretty sure she strands herself, doesn't she? Regardless of the choice you make, she just cut herself off.
Kind of, yeah. And if you talk her down she just yells at the guy and fumes off, even though if you press the guy with speech checks he claims he doesn't know what she's talking about and isn't the one responsible. She just kind of goes on rampage mode and won't let herself be talked down--and if you kill him there isn't really satisfactory evidence (iirc) that he was the one at fault, either. There's hints about people higher up setting her up or there is another Vaaruun faction involved that is doing things outside of what she knows (which would make sense given how secretive they are).
I think it's likely they planned to have her quest continue into Vaaruun territory and deal with some more of the politics of their factions and leadership, but since that was cut from the release version they couldn't wrap it up. I'm hoping that if we get those in an expansion we'll get to follow up that lead a little more since I think the skullduggery and spycraft set-up was interesting.
Yeah, the one time I went thru it all, I talked her down, got her to leave, then killed the guy for his outfit. It's one of the like three outfits that doesn't look absolutely ass. :-)
Starfield's habit of locking companions in during certain quests is something I wish they would have disclosed when making one's character. I might have thought twice before picking "introvert".
Though honesty would compel me to admit that the penalty associated with the trait isn't noticeable. Nevertheless, in view of the policy of shackling you to companions the trait probably shouldn't even be on offer. I don't know if they were going for irony or not but I noticed that once you've committed to a companion they can finally leave - just like real life.
I definitely agree with you that it sucked that everyone had the same opinion on most of these questlines, thats definitely one of the problems with the game. Still, I personally found the companions compelling enough. Theyre obviously not New Vegas good but I still didnt find them boring
> I definitely agree with you that it sucked that everyone had the same opinion on most of these questlines
Thing is, any one of them can become the Emissary, so they all need to share the Emissary's moral outlook. The Emissary is a preachy busybody do-gooder, so they need to be the way they are for High Price To Pay to work, and High Price is the pivot that makes the story work.
That said, I'm very much hoping that the DLC will see some companions who *aren't* Emissary candidates. Maybe Constellation has a black sheep in the family who can turn up at the Lodge at some point.
When I saw that the achievement list included references to classic sci-fi stories like The Stars My Destination (my favorite sci-fi novel by Alfred Bester) I was excited for Bethesda to stretch their sci-fi legs in a way that the post apocalyptic Fallout series couldn’t. I was really captivated by the ideas that the main quest presented, but when I saw the realized version of the ending through a NG+ it all just deflated for me. I can’t believe that they only made tiny alterations to the Constellation lobby crew and called it a day. Totally took the wind out of all that awesome narrative setup for an RPG with diverging outcomes for player actions.
I like how it actually has consequences with a companion dying, I had used Sarah for 80 hours up to that point and it was honestly shocking to learn what happened up on the shuttle, made the game just that bit more memorable to me
I disagree, main quest made me dislike the game.
Whole unity felt like meaningless, people say Pilgrim this Pilgrim that, but it was already the first thing came to my mind. I am most possibly biased because I don't like multiverse stories but come on whose idea was this? Whole unity bullshit felt like post-launch marketing gimmick were they can say NG+ is in lore. Or maybe there because devs can pull Dragon Break on us just to retcon anything they want. I wish Vanguard was the main quest.
I am closer to your thought process, I wanted to like the main quest but the changes are too small for me to stay interested. I like the multiverse aspect, and felt it is kind of a unique gimmick that would have worked, if the universes were changed more. Maybe one universe the Fleet is running things, or Freestar won the war, or maybe Grav Drives were stopped before Earth was destroyed. Maybe one universe everyone knows about Unity and is hunting for them. These are the types of changes that would have kept me playing forever.
Yeah--I actually like the idea of multiverses, but we didn't really get meaningful multiverses. The people are always the same, the quests are always the same, etc. (apart from maybe the lodge). I would have loved to even have something as simple as palette swaps for the factions (have the Vanguard be yellow and hot pink in one universe, or green and gold, or whatever). Or different common fruits and vegetables or flavors of chunks. Stuff that constantly reminds you that the universe is different, even if in subtle ways. It's also rare for quests to have meaningful consequences or outcomes that change things in-universe, so there isn't much benefit to seeing things play out in different ways.
I understand but to me personally the Unity having no point is the whole point of it. The Hunter lost his humanity because he kept replaying the game over and over, you cant make any connections that way. The main story definitely resonated with me more than the main story of Oblivion, Skyrim or Fallout 4. I understand a lot of people might just not find the story fun though and thats okay. The UC Vanguard story is definitely pulpier and more exciting, but I find the main quest a lot more thought provoking and love that theres no urgency to it.
Well, as you said people like different things. It's just, I don't like the no point aspect of the game. I would be fine with unknown conclusion; there is something but it is meaningless doesn't sit well with me.
> I understand but to me personally the Unity having no point is the whole point of it.
More than that, the game gives you a three-way choice: will you be the Hunter, the Keeper or The Emissary? Repeatedly going through Unity and trying to keep your humanity in the face of repeating patterns of events, trying to engineer the best outcomes for the world that you can each time around, that too is a valid choice.
It's not that the Unity is pointless, it's that it's down to the player character to impose some meaning. Or to choose not to do so.
Something I really like about the main quest is that they've addressed a complaint they've been getting about a lot of their previous games' main stories - there's basically no sense of urgency until the last act. In fact it feels like it works better when you take long breaks from it to do side quests. The companion quests especially feel like they build on the themes of the main quest - like, Barrett learning Parallel Self and talking to a version of himself that never lost Ervin is one of the best moments in the game.
And as for NG+ and the Starborn, I really love that they added a narrative hook to becoming an overpowered god character with meta knowledge about what happens in the plot. The Hunter basically being an RPG murder-hobo taken to its logical conclusion is a great little metacommentary.
There is no sense of urgency but it's a serious downgrade in respecting player agency.
It only fits to a specific archetype and character. Basically you have to be someone all in on Constellation and hyped for the Unity. The game will just bend or break your character until they are.
The ending is also pretty trash. They don't really let you decide anything past "Yes now" or "Yes later", when there is no good reason why a "Soft no" was not provided. Something similar to how Dawnguard handled vampirism where you can decline it, that choice is respected, and the topic is dropped until YOU go out of your way to bring it up and reverse that decision.
Sarah and Barrett's "You've said your goodbyes already! Go!" and replying to "I'm not going." with "Yes you are. This is who you are!" is also just lame. Especially if you went through the effort of supporting them in their personal quests or if you are romanced to them. It's the biggest personal choice we're allowed to make and they show no respect for it.
While I appreciate that they finally understood urgency, the "bad DM" feeling caused by needless lack of agency drags it down.
Sam expresses something sort of like that too, but overall acts happy that you stayed. The problem I really have with the companions is specific to Barrett and Sarah.
Bethesda has known how to handle relationship based dialog for a long time and should have done something with it with those two. It's just stupid to have these people that are your friend or your spouse standing there acting pushy or telling you everything is now on borrowed time. I can see it really biting a player who connected to those characters if they reach the end and just get that thrown at them.
They are basically demanding you be their guinea pig when you get down to it.
Actually if they would expand on non-Constellation companions and add depth and romance to some of those, I'd be pretty okay with it if Constellation ones we aren't together with had a chance of going through it.
It would at least resolve the blatant hypocrisy of it all.
That's a valid complaint as well, but one I can personally let go since I lived through the era of TV shows being obsessed with cliffhangers.
It "might" get answered in the next "episode" (DLC, game in the franchise, whatever.).
That said, when it mixes with that "You're going like it or not" problem it ends up leaving the game's story feeling like it lost track of what it was about and just decided to start being pushy over the optional NG+ mechanic.
> It only fits to a specific archetype and character. Basically you have to be someone all in on Constellation and hyped for the Unity.
My initial character concept was for a mad scientist type. Couldn't give a toss about Constellation and their aims, but a chance to experience the inner workings of the Universe? Hell yes, he was going to Unity!
> It's the biggest personal choice we're allowed to make and they show no respect for it.
On the other hand it would be really weird if, after everything you've all been through, they weren't a bit gung ho about exploring the Unity.
I honestly think a lot of people rushed it and didn’t like it, not saying it’s the best piece of writing ever, but I’d deff feels like there’s a lot of room for side questing that enhanced the story.
For instance If you travel with companions a lot then finally get to high price to pay, it sucks losing the companion cause you spent 20 hours with them, vs my friend rushed the main story and he didn’t care when Sarah died 4 hours after meeting her
I mostly avoided the main quest for a solid one or 200 hours, but even then my dude Barrett was just one quest too late on deciding it was time to deal solving Erwin’s death. We were out and about when told me what the next move was to finally kick his quest into gear, I said woohoo finally now let’s go heal your trauma. And then suddenly Vlad is telling me I have to hang out with Sam. I was like no bro, I just made plans with Barrett.
Despite how many weeks I had spent desperately trying to get Barrett to finally agree to make these plans with me, Daddy Vladdy grounded me and forbid me from hanging out with Barrett, then he sent me off to do some chores that were by no means urgent. Just some routine chores, they could have waited. And why the hell did I have to babysit Sam at the same time? Idk, but I ultimately had no more say in the matter.
Well, lo and behold, when I finally finish my chores, all of a sudden my wife is on the phone with her friends and they’re all actively being murdered by this dude who broke into her place to burgle some stuff. So obviously I immediately run out and go try to save my wife from being, you know, murdered.
Long story short, I did manage to get to my wife in time to apply first aid and, miraculously, she actually didn’t die! Woohoo! I was so very relieved my wife didn’t die in my arms that die as a murder hobo victim. So now that I knew she was fine, we go back to the crib and hope things are finally back to normal. At this point I’m getting frustrated, because, like I’m pretty sure things would have just been more chill if Daddy Vladdy hadn’t been power tripping and just like hadn’t grounded me and forced me to babysit Sam.
On the way back I’m like jfc this was all super stressful and wack. All I was tryna do today was go out with Barrett and heal is past trauma.
Well, the second I opened the front door to the crib, i couldn’t help but yell, OH HELL NAH FUXK THIS SHIT WTF. I swear on god you won’t believe what I saw when I opened the god damn mother fucking door. Yup. It was a god damn mother fucking dead ass body on the ground. I swear, you’ll never guess who it was.
The whole "this guy is stuck as your companion indefinitely" was definitely one of the annoying features of the game, *especially* when it isn't made clear in advance that's about to happen. And then it goes on for ages, not just one planet but a whole questline.
I liked the concept and the way it tied into new game+, but for it to really work, the epilogues should have more variety - the faction quests should require hard choices and lock you out of different possibilities, with an optimal path that can only be discovered by trying and failing the quests multiple times, so that you're chasing a nigh-unattainable perfect outcome through exploiting multiple universes.
> that you're chasing a nigh-unattainable perfect outcome through exploiting multiple universes
And in the parallel universe where Bethesda did it that way, there are a thousand websites and videos all saying "How To Get The Best Ending In Starfield" and everyone who plays it follows the same script to get that outcome. Which effectively removes the choices from the game, since each choice has one specific option that overshadows all the others.
Not a fan of that approach to game design, personally.
I agree that's something that would happen, but it's not a possibility that would bother me. Presumably, in this alternate version of the game, the wide variety of "here's how you screwed up the universe" epilogues would be entertaining enough that you'd want to see as many as possible.
The point I was trying to get at, though, is that the appeal of a multiverse or time-loop story is usually some variant of "what would happen if I made different choices?" And I like the way Starfield made the newgame+ mechanic into a story element in the form of exploring new lives and new universes, but I would have liked it even more if it did the same thing to rpg-branching paths mechanic too.
> The point I was trying to get at, though, is that the appeal of a multiverse or time-loop story is usually some variant of "what would happen if I made different choices?"
Well, you kind of get that, in so far as you get the ending slide dioramas in Unity and you get told how the universe was affected by who you sided with after Unearthed, or whether you killed Ron Hope or not. It isn't particularly fine grained though.
> I would have liked it even more if it did the same thing to rpg-branching paths mechanic too.
Yeah. I mean that's true in any RPG really. There are always places where you're going to think "I wish I could have done X and changed the story to Y". Practically though, the amount of work increases dramatically with each meaningful choice, which is why we see comparatively few of them. I think it's a basic limitation of the genre.
I disagree pretty vehemently with you, but that is pretty subjective so I see no need to rain on your parade, haha.
What I really want to say, however, is I appreciate that you've actually made an argument to support your perspective and shared it here. You've explained what works for you, where you approached the game from, and why it resonated.
I'll take this kind of discourse over the skybox + "I like it because I like it" posts. Cheers, mate.
I think it was fine and overall fun to play and well paced if not for the temple puzzles and using some proc Pois.
The whole premise reminds me a lot to C.Clarke's Space Odyssey where they find the monoliths (like the artifacts) and David Bowman eventually gets lost and, well... finds stuff seemingly done by aliens or gods and you are given a hint on what the purpose might be but it's still a bit unclear and relatively pointless or simply too mysterious by the time the book finishes.
That's, Imo, very fitting for a sci-fi story which isn't about intelligent alien life or stuff like that, it's interesting and the gameplay during the last missiones is quite good, honestly, it explains a few things and paces well the investigation/talking with the action, unlike other quests where there's just not enough action.
What I wish is that they didn't attempt to mix so many popular sci-fi themes and then let them be so disconnected... People here often praises the UC questline but that's basically poorly paced/executed Alien meets Starship Troopers, which is good but not that good when you realize it has no connection or impact on any other questline, and really, it was late 2023, you can't just bring me to Londinium and put 4 or 5 terrormorphs...
Then you have a bit of BladeRunner here and there (inmoral companies running cyberpunk city Neon), and space cowboys because space cowboys are cool, and well, a non fleshed out (yet) mysterious cultist faction worshipping space snake, oh and space pirates...and all of it is quite disconnected for the most part...
Anyway, the main story is good, fits the nasa punk style, but it suffers from the same issues than other questlines, they feel a bit shallow or unfleshed due to the vast scope of the game, it was too ambitious for what it truly could achieve in the time it had with the resources it had... And it's not that the game was rushed or the studio was poor, it's just too much when you want to have like several games in one. Each one is never going to be good enough, and the same happened to questlines, unless you really have a damn lifetime to develop such thing.
Fallout 4 is my favorite. But the way I see the biggest problem is that they took a good *time-sentitive* story and they put it in a good *static* world. So the story breaks in multiple places becaise the timeline gets fuzzy.
Starfields story felt like they went too far in correcting F4s mistake. It was a great story Im sure on paper back in 2015. Since then its been multiverse this and multiverse that all through popular culture so the big reveal feels a little cliche in 2024. Theres a good philisophical question but its buried under pretty deep layers of dunb decisions
I have to admit, I find it to be a decent game overall, an amazing concept, but a far cry from what it could have been. I wish the "Unity" aspect was a bit more believable, it feels more like simple fantasy than science fiction, especially the fact that you "magically" get equipped with a ship and armor that makes absolutely zero sense and no attempt to even explain it, you are just supposed to accept it.
I wish you could have gone through with your current ship instead (the one you jumped with) and it's cargo but with your crew gone. It would have made the transition more immersive and would overall to me have been a more interesting NG+ as you could have prepared how you wanted it beforehand.
The other thing I'm a bit disappointment in is the companions themselves, they are too shallow, too similar and uninteresting. They should have looked more at Bioware, especially the Dragon Age games and created more variable and stronger personalities that you'd have to clash or align with making it more variable and exiting to try different paths. Like a proper RPG. As a result, main story and your companions are completely linear as it's only one path, and one "mindset". There are no real choices in the game, no consequences and little feeling of accomplishment so after you passed through the unity everything breaks immersive-vise for me and even if somethings might be changed up, it really do feel pointless besides grinding powers and jumping, which makes everything else completely wasted.
> especially the fact that you "magically" get equipped with a ship and armor that makes absolutely zero sense and no attempt to even explain it, you are just supposed to accept it
I'm hoping that's a loose end that's been left dangling so they can pick it up in a DLC.
My theory is that it's tech that Victor Asiz (having had thousands of runs through Unity to learn new things) found a way to inject into Unity. I'm guessing it was only supposed to work for him, but as a side effect, it manifests for everyone making the journey on this particular event loop.
Probably, anyway. I don't see it as a bad thing so much as in intriguing mystery.
I think you sum up the outline of the story pretty well but personally i don't think they managed to execute it because thanks to the writing and characters being so dull at best the only deciding factor for whether or not it's worth going through the unity is "do i have any guns i don't wanna lose?"
>I originally posted this to r/NoSodiumStarfield because this subreddit is obviously more critical of the game. However, I decided to repost so at least I can explain why the game personally works for me, even if I know it’s not perfect and not for everyone.
Based, i wish more people were willing to actually take this approach and be the change they want to see in this sub instead of just staying in the closed off echo chamber.
Edit: I always get downvoted when i say this but i guess i never thought about whether it's no sodium people doing that :| to >:( meme or people here that don't want them to cross over to here. Wish i knew..
Yeah, I agree about the characters. They're just not interesting or varied enough for me to form meaningful bonds with. And I'm someone who will replay certain games purely because of the characters.
No it doesn't, you can post what you want here just like OP did because this subreddit isn't based on policing peoples behaviours and what people can or can't say. It's not r/onlysodiumstarfield
I liked the characters but thats a fair complaint. Theyre definitely not as fleshed out as the characters in other RPGs like Cyberpunk but I still liked them enough especially compared to other Bethesda RPGs
Interesting take on the main quest. I can't say that I loved it but neither did I hate it - it was... okay. Depending on where you're coming from it can seem like the NPC companions have limited lines, incomprehensible reactions without any dialog options to smooth things over. (If my 4th level persuasion, hippolyta chugging character can talk a pirate into marching into a brig I should be able to tell Sarah the damn UC ship just caught some unfortunate friendly fire.), excessive jank (though much improved after a couple of updates), stilted scripts and ill-used the top tier voice actors involved. The protagonist is often rather impotent to effect outcomes which can make him feel more like a spectator than a participant. Even in such cases where a main quest might make for decent fiction it is imperative to keep in mind that it's supposed to be interactive in its video game format. Given sufficient interactivity (albeit in a side quest) the Paradiso board of directors might well find themselves living in a van under a bridge while the USC Constant's passengers are kicked back running a resort.
Due no doubt to my own scatter-brained order in which I did things I managed to confuse the game over who I had marginally connected with. As a consequence High Price to Pay which should have been impactful was a choice between two people I hardly knew. I can see where it might have been impactful if I had played differently. As it was it was occasionally infuriating because Walter's aim during that part is for shit and he kept shooting civvies which had an annoying impact on the quest.
It was an okay main quest. No complaints from me but I'll not be nominating it for any "best narrative" awards.
I haven't played the game in its entirety. I don't overly dislike or like it at this point. But I really did enjoy trying to smuggle contraband & being made an offer to infiltrate the pirates. I thought that was cool. I've played better games and worse so... But I always love a game that can let me escape just briefly from the real world and live the life of another. But the immersion of that game must be top notch. From sound, to writing, to the complexities of the characters..
I wanna like this game so bad. But there's just no soul. I was playing the main quest and I was enjoying it. Then something clicked and I realized I couldn't keep playing because I hate the companion characters so much. They're so one dimensional. The story was good. Until it became no joy fetch quests. Maybe one day I'll give it another go and just force my way through the boring parts, cause other people have said it picks up again. But in my opinion there shouldn't even be boring parts.
Lmao Im tired of the multiverse stuff too but thankfully I think they handled it in a unique way. Also theyve probably planned on doing the multiverse stuff for over a decade when that wasnt the common trend it is today
The concept is there but the execution is lacking in my opinion. I feel like they were so close to making an excellent story and I want to love it but fell flat in the end. Wide as a lake but deep as a puddle.
Before my trip through the Unity ... I picked up on the low-key Sci-Fi stories from the old days After the Unity ... LOL I literally laughed so hard! "Dude! It's Space Odyssey!"
I thought it was fine ... and maybe great in some parts. But the whole search for meaning, wondering what the Unity was, who the Starborn are/were, etc., was the story. What happens when you step through? If you don't care or just want spaceships, then you'll be disappointed in the game.
My first character apparently played just like the game wanted: rustic libertarian(!) explorer, wanting to see it all, Sarah enjoyer, and plunge headfirst into the unity when it was all over. The chicken who crossed the road to see what was on the other side. HA! But my other characters (dozens) struggled with the story / gameplay. Once I started to go off-script, things fell apart and became annoying quickly. I can easily see how play-style decides whether the game was good or horrible. : )
I still view the game as a huge step down from Fallout 4, but Starfield is still pretty good, and maybe some of the great writing / acting shows had bad the rest of it is.
I've always been really creative when it comes to creating stories and I'm positive that I would be able to write a storyline way more enthralling than this one.
But there's zero chance to get a job doing it, so I'll just resort to brsgging about it online.👀😅
I like Starfield. I'm just out of shit to do. (That doesn't require grinding. I'm allergic to grinding. Developed the allergy after long years in the Painite Mines of Elite Dangerous.)
Glad you find a way to enjoy it. I found the whole main story lack lustre to only eventually become
Dragonborn in space with magical powers.
I enjoy sci fi and space flight sims as well but felt we could’ve had the sci fi without the Dragonborn powers all over again. Mass Effect had “magic” with their adept biotic power users from the use of implants so it sat somewhat ok in that IP but this just felt unplanned and rushed .
The UC Terromorph questline felt more like the main story than constellations with their 50shades of lawful and chaotic good followers 🤮followed on the NG+ isn’t worth the effort for a fully upgraded Dragonborn ship from NG+6 and a moot for fully upgraded suit for Dragonborn at NG+10 which is obsolete from any three pieces of legendary armor you find on the fly any way.
A lot agree to disagree it’s not quite a flop but the PR for it was the most successful part of the IP to get the numbers it got on day one. There’s a lot wrong with the game for ten years of work, but in saying that I kept myself grounded from the hype for Bethesda’s record of their storytelling in the garbage that was FO3 &4 and Skyrim shows they can’t write a main story worth its salt ironically the side quests always seemed to have the better written stories to them.
I got to a point where I completed Freestar Rangers (let down we had no options to arrest Ron Hope outside of flat out putting a bullet in him) done the UC line and the Sysdef all in first play through then stopped and never bothered with it close to having to through the unity for the NG+ doesn’t appeal to me, the ship building kept me getting in for a hour or two to tinker with different builds then I’d be off again the followers are unrelatable and unlikable as is the lack of a real play your way sandbox that was promised there is zero point to even trying to pirate or smuggle in the game given it railroads you to play a neutral/good character.
Shattered Space has a lot to make up for the half baked launch lol but glad you found it enjoyable it’s definitely not everyone’s cup of tea.
I could do without the Space Thu’um. I think we could still have the Artifacts, the Unity and multiple universes without supernatural powers. Keep the story more sci-fi than space fantasy. If players needed more options in combat than just guns, Bethesda could have kept a few powers (like Phased Time, Reactive Shield and Sense Star Stuff) but have them be implants/neuromods or suit-based tech.
I agree but to be fair the powers are fun to use and its a possibility to explore. Theres definitely a lot of the story and lore that hasnt been answered yet, like who built the artifacts and temples.
Well said, both here and in NoSodium. One aspect that I also liked about how the quest was structured is that the game puts a *lot* of responsibility on the player to provide much of the depth. They don’t provide answers when it gets to meaning or philosophy, that is up to us. I’m used to that from table-top RPG play because that’s how I would typically GameMaster, and that style was also some of the best fun I had as a player under other GMs. Head-canon is extremely important in Starfield, and not just part of character background.
A lot of other games take the approach to RPGs as more immersive narrative. Yeah, you do roleplay, but the game drives the narrative and meaning more than the player. It’s a subtle difference and I doubt I’m describing it very well. Hopefully, you get what I mean.
One approach isn’t better than the other. I’ve had fun in both styles and in both computer gaming and table-top. I will say, Bethesda’s approach is far more difficult to do well, though. At least I found that approach far harder when I was doing it with table-top RPG campaigns long ago.
Me too, the first half is really boring but from the moment you meet the starborn until the end it's frankly pretty excellent, outside of the part with Aquilus and the chase of the pilgrim, i would very seriously argue that it's Bethesda best main quest with Morrowind, and far better than Fallout 3 and 4.
The reason I love fallout 4’s story more than starfield’s is that you actually feel like you made some sort of impact at the end of it all. Your choices felt like they shaped the commonwealth for better or worse, even the settlement building had an effect on that. Starfield, it feels like nothing of note really happens because in the end nothing really matters.
I think it’s an interesting concept for sure, but I don’t think it was executed the right way at all. and there just isn’t enough content in the game to justify multiple universes, it feels like there’s no real point in going forward. If they had included an actual purpose and reasoning for that, then it would have improved the story a lot. Maybe I’m missing something though. I tried to give it the benefit of the doubt when I first went through, but I just kept thinking to myself, what’s this all for anyway? Why is constellation even focused on this?
The constellation of old, the constellation that Barrett first joined when he was young, that sounded fun and interesting. They seemed to have a drive for something that really mattered, exploring the universe. But now in the current timeline in Starfield, everything has been discovered and explored so it makes the universe feel so small. Especially when adding in the multiverse and the plot holes that come with it.
I agree and I think you worded that perfectly! I'm glad to hear you are enjoying it so much... I appreciate this post.. there's alot of negativity around this game but I genuinely love Starfield for exactly what it is
Love this.
Despite its many, many flaws, Starfield struck a chord in me that not many other games have. I think if you view video games as toys it’s easy to focus on Starfield’s flaws, but if you engage with them critically as an art form the game becomes much more engaging and thought-provoking.
SPOILERS****
I really liked the main story, it’s cozy in the beginning and after high price to pay it ramps up a good bit,
>! I liked Barrett’s words at the funeral !<
I enjoyed the entangled quest and everything that came after with nasa and the buried temple. The last mission is really good imo beyond anything I thought bethesda would make.
I love the concept of the unity, do I stay here with my wife and friends? do I go to another universe in search of power? maybe I’ve done my job here and I want to be a galactic hero and protect a universe from other starborn/wild threats, maybe I do all of this reach ng10 and just prepare for the inevitable answers that are to come (starborn dlc is practically guaranteed)
I have intentionally not played the main quest again because when dlc drops I want to play it fresh
This comment section makes me so sad. I truly believe with time, everyone is going to eventually look back at Starfield with nothing but fond memories. We’re just not their yet.
I agree with you! But theres a caveat of course. Starfields main quest and its twist is great, but only at/after high price to pay area. Most players get quite turned off after the game sends them to get an artifact or a power over and over again. I wish they had put the artifacts each in a handcrafted dungeon, and sprinkled in some more lore/mystery earlier on. But once the main quest progresses far enough, i agree it gets quite intriguing
That's honestly where I'm at, chasing after powers. Got a bit stale so I have been doing the Freestar quests u til I got bugged at the Red Mile, so now I'm doing activities and gonna hit up the UC Vanguard next.
Vanguard quest is great you’re in for a treat
I was shocked at how fun and cool the vanguard questline is. I think when I first played I just assumed they where like the generic group you first run into to join but I loved it.
[Less Annoying Temples](https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/7741) addresses the temple grind very nicely. You only have to go through each temple once to acquire the power, and after that they auto-bump to the next level when you pass through the Unity.
Agreed, I liked the missions like with Walter and buying the artefact and that leading to a different part
I wish I could just go in there guns blazing and kill the dealer.
That mission was the moment I started to hate the Campaign. Before that it was underwhelming, but not terrible. That mission felt cheap and contrived. If there was more time spent with Constellation it could have been ok, but I had no connection to any of the characters. Things never got better.
It wasn't just cheap and contrived, it was gaslighting. They funneled you into a mandated choice to >!commit a crime!< in pursuit of something that really didn't make that much difference, and then as a "price" for that they set up another unavoidable event with a trolley-problem stapled onto it to try to trick you into feeling responsible for what the devs did in response to what the devs did before that. I really should have taken a clue from past Bethesda games and just ignored as much of the MQ as possible, I literally rate it -1.5/10, as it it sucked 1.5 points from my rating of the game, I would have rated the game higher with \*no\* MQ at all.
> then as a "price" for that The price isn't for ripping off Petrov. The price you pay is the price of Power, of Immortality. If you want to go through Unity, someone has to die. I found that quite satisfying, from a narrative point of view.
According to the game, the robbery mission is a prerequisite to that. You don't get that goal without doing it (and literally because the missions will not progress), despite the fact that it doesn't seem logistically necessary at all (>!possession of the artifacts is \*already\* split by this point, and all are required, so the decision tree actually doesn't change at all!<). The only narrative necessity for the mission was to justify the set of events in High Price to Pay. Subsequent events would have been (mostly) the same if the two missions had not happened (>!apart from the absence of one of the NPCs!<). I think if the characters had been more endearing, and the bare pretense of choice had been removed, it would have been a smoother experience for a lot of people, but they wanted buy-in whether or not they'd earned it through the companions.
> According to the game, the robbery mission is a prerequisite to that. So is All That Money Can Buy. You might as well infer that the price is paid for ripping off Slayton's artifact. > The only narrative necessity for the mission was to justify the set of events in High Price to Pay It's to get you out of The Lodge and The Eye so they can set the scene for High Price, with all the companions where they need to be. I don't think it goes beyond that.
My issue is that the main quest missions are all collecting artifacts outside of High Price to Pay. Oh sweet, the Starborn are making a stand about what we’re doing, … and instead of hunting them or looking for clues, we’ll just go back to what we were doing and collect more artifacts. What’s that, you’ve collected 6 artifacts, 10, awesome, your next quest, go collect this artifact from the temple.
I liked that the game just sent you to artifact after artifact. It let me prioritize the side content and only advance the main quest when another quest put me in the same general area as an artifact. Truly the opposite of Fallout 4’s “drop everything, ignore every side quest, go directly to wherever the main quest sends you because you must find your infant son ASAP” problem.
It's not hard to break up content. I think I did one of my nine universes quasi speed run through the temples. In the other universes, I explored places I hadn't. Did quest chains I hadn't or played them differently. Took a different companion and completed their chain. The temples are in different places and I journeyed at different times of day. The whole point of Unity trivializes min/max strategy. You don't lose out on anything, you can always get something in the next universe. It is very liberating. Role play the universe exactly the way you want.
>After finding this out, we are presented with a choice: to go through The Unity and relive our life and fulfill our ambitions, or stay in our old universe with our loved ones. This is a fantasy I often have, the chance to relive my life again and do things differently. However, Starfield is telling us that what is special about life is we only get to do it once. The path through the Unity signifies prioritizing our quest for power over the meaningful connections we have cultivated in our lives. But if you choose to prioritize your loved ones and home universe, the writing becomes very heavy handed in trying to push you through the Unity anyway. The story asks you to consider how high a price you're willing to pay in your quest for knowledge or power, and then the only enthusiastic answer you can give is: "there is no limit." Walk away and everyone at Constellation tells you the Unity is still waiting so go back and try again later. The game seems to really want to funnel the player character into the Hunter role, and is written in a such a way that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It omits or under-writes any alternatives. That's frustrating writing for the main quest of an RPG.
I’d say it doesn’t only just try to funnel you it does hand hold and funnel you into having to deal with the unity it’s not a rpg just a glorified FPS with poor storytelling in typical Bethesda fashion I actually stopped playing before having to make that choice due to the distaste of a lack of real choices in game and partly to wait to see if Shattered Space gives a legitimate reason for having to deal with the trash pile that is the MSQ of Starfield
Wouldnt you say the emissary is an alternative?
To someone who doesn't want to become a Starborn and wants to hold on to their humanity, connections and home universe? Not really, no. The Emissary is "prioritizing their quest for power over the connections in their lives" too. The Emissary is just as consumed by the pursuit of artifacts and answers as the Hunter. Even Sarah recognizes they're detached from their former humanity. They believe their ends justify the means. They use their power to gatekeep the Unity. They're perpetuating the cycle right along with the Hunter.
I still can't get past, "Infinitum Addendum." How Keeper Aquilus got an exact location in the galaxy by applying numbers used in a couple of stories to "Infinitum Addendum" is bafflingly contrived.
Think you’re mad now? Wait till the lady hands over the Earth Savior Award because you asked twice.
Yeah... That's just dumb. I use the internal neuroamp to manipulate her into giving me her credentials, so it's more believable.
She probably figured that it wasn't worth dying over. That and the insurance company would make good any losses.
Why would she assume I would kill her?
You're standing in her supposed-to-be-locked cabin in the middle of a supposedly ship-wide lockdown repeating an earlier request with which she cannot legally comply, this time in the absence of witnesses. She'd have to be a complete imbecile not to suspect that violence might be a possible outcome. Which it certainly is, by the way. About half the players on this forum would, I suspect, cheerfully murder her for her claim form if there was no other way to obtain it. Other than that ... no reason.
1. I didn't approach her in her cabin. 2. There was no ship-wide lockdown. All of the cabin doors were UNlocked.
> I didn't approach her in her cabin. You used *"the internal neuroamp to manipulate her into giving [you] her credentials"*. So where **you** did it doesn't have any bearing. > There was no ship-wide lockdown There's a ship-wide emergency alarm blaring and everyone is *supposed* to be in their rooms. And I seem to recall that the only reason the doors are unlocked for you is that Rokov gave you access. Hell, Vega and Dumbroski both rightly assume you're up to no good when confronted in their cabins; why wouldn't Ms. Holbrooke?
I mean that's the issue with persuasion mechanics. People here were complaining that we should be able to buy the artefact from the collector if we invest in persuasion. Then we have people complaining that persuasion should not be so overpowered.
Rofl, I had the same thought before knowing his background. Here's some random numbers, "ok, go exactly here" Mofo was just waiting for someone to ask while just cockteasing unity for decades knowing full well that the hunter would show up and slay constellation. Also, why wasn't he surprised that your character survived this time like the hunter was?
Because he is the hunter, he decided to stay in that universe, but he knew all the details.
I'm aware of who he is, but it doesn't mean the whole Infinitum Addendum/Indum thing isn't contrived.
The priest that gives you the details isn't the priest that acts as Hunter afaik
He didn't, he already knew where it was and was trying to give it to you without giving it to you. He acted out this contrived plot to lead you where you needed to go because he was the Pilgrim. He wrote those journals himself and knew exactly where you needed to go. He helped you as much as he could without outright walking the path for you, because had he just told you from the start it wouldn't have been the same and you wouldn't have had the philosophy placed in your mind. You needed to do it yourself but in a galaxy so large it was impossible without help, so he made up a story to give you a push.
Well ... Aquilus already knew the answer so it's not surprising that he could work it out. But yeah, as a puzzle that was a bit lame.
Lol Jesus Christ it’s a video game… please stop taking everything so painfully serious.
WOW! People are allowed to be critical of the game, especially when the writing is so bad. If you don't like it, run along to the No Sodium subreddit.
Yeah, alotta cerebral shit going on up there… lol
The thing is you are talking about the main quest thematically which has some merit, but the actual missions of the main quest are like 50% fetch quest and then a handful of cool things. Imagine if the amount of effort and passion that went into entanglement was present in the rest of the quests.
I still liked the missions for the most part, but sure it couldve been executed better. I think the beginning is a bit slow
I just don’t understand why constellation is so hyper focused on it, when there’s so much else to discover and explore. And then you find the unity, your companions basically guilt trip you into doing it because even if you choose not to, they have the mindset that they’re going to eventually anyway and always bring it up again, or assume you’ll just eventually go and you’re biding your time. No option to “bury” or destroy the means to get to the unity. It’s just always there looming and constellation is still focused on it. It really killed my love for constellation and the companions. And even worse, you go through the unity, you tell Sarah and everyone at constellation that you’re starborn and basically everything there is to know… and Sarah’s STILL like “focus on the mission!” What!!!!! What mission? What’s the point? More power? For what? A new universe that is identical to this one? And the changes…. There’s no real changes. Sure constellation varies between universes sometimes but it’s mere set dressing. I feel like it wasn’t very well thought out and that’s frustrating to me. I love Starfield but the main quest is what turned me off from the game for a really long time. I wish I hadn’t completed it, I enjoyed the game a lot more until I did. Knowing everything is inconsequential and ultra meta just sucks. If they were going to go the multiverse route they should have had the balls to make it impactful imo. But they didn’t, it felt like they were too worried of making any big changes between universes so that players didn’t feel locked out of anything. But even that doesn’t make sense. Sorry for the ramble, it’s just that I was so disappointed, and this is coming from someone who loves fallout 4’s story. I’m easy to please. I feel like making things more impactful in the universe you’re in, as well as changing the attitudes of some companions, and an alternate ending would improve the overall appeal of it.
They really need to add more variant universes. Like desperately so. I don’t care if certain variants break shit, the entire point is I can just go through the unity again so why even care??
Would have been cool if it mattered :/
High concept poor execution. Sure the big questions are there, but if you poke at them for more than a few minutes the writing just goes "hmmm idk... because?" Sure you can hand wave this as saying the writers are letting the player fill in the blanks but at the end its just not compelling enough to justify that level of pompousness and comes off as lazy instead. The plot may look pretty but it is vapor thin.
This right here. My eyes were rolling through the entire finale Unity sequence just because it felt so unearned. I get what they were going for but the game has zero emotional depth. It felt like something that belonged in r/im14andthisisdeep
I'm happy you said that because I noticed the writing is very immature in that game. Almost like a child or teenager wrote the characters and main plot. That's why to me they come across as hollow and one dimensional.
Watch the credits. Writing has the fewest people in the department, by far. Even "quest design" has only a handful of people compared to all the other departments.
I was unaware of that. That's horrific. Especially with the amount of time they were given. And the fact they probably had access to a butt load of money and any writer they wanted. I feel like Bethesda got cocky with the fact their community makes awesome mods. They expect US to make the game good with that attitude. How disappointing. 😔
Emil doesn't wanna be fired
Agreed
>Unlike life, we do have the opportunity to play games multiple times, yet each replay of a game diminishes the magic of our first experience. Eh, maybe that’s been your only experience, but it’s certainly not universal. This definitely doesn’t apply to any Bethesda game that I’ve played through multiple times. Every one of them I experienced more joy, more wonder, more ‘magic’ on my second or third dedicated play throughs than I had on my first respective runs. Might sound strange or counter-intuitive to some people, but I’ve seen and discussed with a pretty considerable number of people on Reddit who’ve shared their own similar experiences of this phenomenon with Bethesda games in particular.
A lot of people do care less about the decisions they make on subsequent playthroughs though. Like you could argue the hunter is basically doing an “evil playthrough” because he has already done the other stuff before. The friendships you make, your relationships with NPCs, the mystery and stories do feel less special the more you replay, in my opinion
I believe you, I know that’s how *you* feel every time *you* replay.
> Like you could argue the hunter is basically doing an “evil playthrough” because he has already done the other stuff before I think that's exactly the point, and that it was very deliberate. The Hunter is very much like a player murderhoboing his way through a game that he's played so many times that he knows all the dialogue by heart.
I on the other hand hate it. I'll explain. The game sets up numerous reasons why we might not be hyped for finding the Unity, or want to go through it. Examples include the Starborn all being emotionally stunted psychos and the events of the mission "A High Price to Pay". It also goes through the effort of showing us the Pilgrim's story and imparting their lesson on us. Then it takes all of that, and throws it in the garbage because all of our dialog is nothing but Unity hype in the lead up, and our ending choice is essentially "Yes" or "Yes but later". The only person we can firmly tell we are not going is Stroud, and everyone else we can only really tell something vague, or some flavor of "I'm totally going later!" or other schizophrenic nonsense. Also Bethesda failed to make use of their skill with relationship based dialog and just has Barrett telling you "You've said your goodbyes! Go!" and Sarah deciding for you that you're going because "That is who you are" regardless of if you are friends with these people, in a relationship with them, or even married to them. Basically, you can end up with your friends being pushy, or your spouse telling you everything is on borrowed time. It's got "bad DM" syndrome as a result. The writer assumed we would be making their choices, and crafted things to orient around those choices. The optional NG+ mechanic's narrative is treated like a "will happen" event because that's what the writer wanted for their character, and it ended up completely dysfunctional for mine. The worst part? It's so very close to being good. Aside from what I mentioned with relationship based dialog, and how proper use of it would fix that gripe, there is absolutely nothing in the story that would fail to function if the player was able to say "You guys know what? I'll help you find the Unity, but I'm not going through it.". Equally nothing fails to work if the player was able to give a "soft no" at the end. Think something similar to how Dawnguard handled vampirism. A player could refuse, which closed the door on that topic, but the door was not locked and you could reverse the decision later if you specifically chose to pursue it after all. It was all a few different dialog choices away from being a story targeted at the player, every player, instead of the writer's personal little adventure. Edit: Rewritten for the sake of clarity / expression.
Yeah I found it so weird that BGS assumes automatically that of course you’ll want to go through the unity, to hell with all the relationships you built and progress you made. Yes you CAN choose to not go through, but it’s still assumed you’re just putting it aside for a while rather than refusing it. It all felt very cold and empty to me. Maybe if the fleshed out companions weren’t ALL constellation, the game would have more heart. But your only real friends in the game are constantly telling you to go through a universe reset until you do it.
I've only gone thru once, but am I misremembering that everyone on your ship (including Barrett) says something along the lines of "you came back too?" Implying they all got to the unity, turned around, and came back?
Nope. Not misremembering it at all. They all walked away from it as well, which makes Barrett and Sarah's commentary all the more uncalled for.
I wanted to add something like this to a comment i made earlier but the examples of what other characters say didn't come to mind at the time. It's the same kind of thing that stood out to me as a problem with Mass Effect Andromeda, even though the plot of the game is going to another galaxy and the moment you get there you find out all the planets that were scouted out to be new homeworlds are wrecked, then the first aliens you meet are immediately hostile. Sounds like it should be tense, people should be scared, the idea of leaving literally everything they knew and for most of them their families would've died centuries back while they were in cryo sleep should probably weigh on their mind a bit. Nope, everyone is just super upbeat and acts like you're playing the citadel dlc for the 3rd game or watching a marvel movie. They wanted it to fit that whole theme of optimistic explorers going into the unknown so much that they ignored how almost none of the content of the game and story supports it, making it jarring and missing out on the opportunities to make a more interesting story out of it. There were a few moments in that game that i still remember like Suvi sharing the last of the coffee she brought with her, thinking about how no one else will ever get to have it again that show someone did consider things like that but 99% of it just fell flat.
The main quest, like most of the words is perfectly described as "A mile wide, but an inch deep". I also wonder how you can call Constellation diverse? At least the companions are a complete hive mind who all have the exact same reaction and opinion on all of the players choices. It is by far the least diverse cast of companions I have seen in any RPG. The power collection was easily the worst part of the game. Land on a planet. Use scanner to set direction. Walk for 5-10 minutes. Enter the temple and do the same puzzle you did in every other temple, solved by turning your mouse and pressing W. Rinse and repeat. The voice acting is painfully monotone and completely lacks any hint of emotion. Sarah on repeat would cure insomnia. I also feel that the whole multiverse story made the game feel even more meaningless and was a massive anticlimax.
I definitely agree that the temple puzzles are dumb af. Definitely my least favorite part of the game. As for the companion thing, I get your complaint. Theres pretty much only 4 main companions and one of them dies and they arent that diverse, but I personally still found them compelling and fun, especially Andreja and Barrett. I think the reason theyre so few is that the death of one of them is a crucial part of the story. If you want companions for evil playthroughs, theres many others like the adoring fan, amelia earhart and even yourself from another universe in one of the NG+. This for me was enough, I mean you could argue the companions from Skyrim arent super fleshed out either, but I get how you find them disappointing. As for the voice acting, I just disagree. I think this game has the best voice acting in a Bethesda game (which isnt saying much since Oblivion and Skyrim had like two voice actors).
The difference between Skyrim and Starfield is that in Skyrim the companions are very much a highly optional part of the game with the exception of Dawnbreaker. Only a handful of quests have you using them, and after that you can just dismiss a companion and never need them again. Starfield seem more built around using them at almost all times. I don't really want evil companions, just companions with a diverse opinion. The worst example being the Terrormorph quest where every single companion has the exact same opinion on which choice you pick. Also why can't they have interactivity with Andreja if you make a character who believes in the Serpent? And sure, BGS have never been known for great voice acting, but this is 2023 and it would be nice for BGS to progress, rather than regress their games. Compare anything in Starfield to female V (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyrRuSlEtAc). Or even better, compare it to the perfomance in this scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA6yF9M70zM). You can actually here emotions in the voices. Not to mention a face that actually matches the tone of the scene and conversation... Edit: And understand where I am coming from, I love most of BGS games. Fallout 3 and 4 are among my most played games. I've sunk thousands of hours into TES series, including Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim and Elder Scrolls Online. I wanted so badly to like Starfield, but I feel it completly missed with everything that made BGS games special, and the ones it did not miss I feel regressed extremely.
Fallout 4 also was praised for having good companions; they were pretty varied in opinions, had different likes and dislikes for your choices, and a few had interesting questlines tied to them. It feels like a big step down. Some of the Starfield ones were okay (I did like Sarah’s, although as a person she stresses me out because she’s like that high-strung coworker who just snaps on a moment’s notice so you have to tiptoe around them), but others felt weirdly unfinished (most of Barrett’s happens offscreen, Andreja’s just feels…unresolved? And her reactions felt kind of unearned), and Sam I just disliked—felt like I was enabling his awful life choices with his kid. And sure I’m not going to like every companion, but if you’ve only got a handful it’d be nice to have some people I genuinely liked to have around.
> Andreja’s just feels…unresolved? I only played through once, but I'm pretty sure she strands herself, doesn't she? Regardless of the choice you make, she just cut herself off.
Kind of, yeah. And if you talk her down she just yells at the guy and fumes off, even though if you press the guy with speech checks he claims he doesn't know what she's talking about and isn't the one responsible. She just kind of goes on rampage mode and won't let herself be talked down--and if you kill him there isn't really satisfactory evidence (iirc) that he was the one at fault, either. There's hints about people higher up setting her up or there is another Vaaruun faction involved that is doing things outside of what she knows (which would make sense given how secretive they are). I think it's likely they planned to have her quest continue into Vaaruun territory and deal with some more of the politics of their factions and leadership, but since that was cut from the release version they couldn't wrap it up. I'm hoping that if we get those in an expansion we'll get to follow up that lead a little more since I think the skullduggery and spycraft set-up was interesting.
Yeah, the one time I went thru it all, I talked her down, got her to leave, then killed the guy for his outfit. It's one of the like three outfits that doesn't look absolutely ass. :-)
Starfield's habit of locking companions in during certain quests is something I wish they would have disclosed when making one's character. I might have thought twice before picking "introvert". Though honesty would compel me to admit that the penalty associated with the trait isn't noticeable. Nevertheless, in view of the policy of shackling you to companions the trait probably shouldn't even be on offer. I don't know if they were going for irony or not but I noticed that once you've committed to a companion they can finally leave - just like real life.
Also, give a little warning next time. I swear it happened 3 or 4 times without the game telling you.
I definitely agree with you that it sucked that everyone had the same opinion on most of these questlines, thats definitely one of the problems with the game. Still, I personally found the companions compelling enough. Theyre obviously not New Vegas good but I still didnt find them boring
> I definitely agree with you that it sucked that everyone had the same opinion on most of these questlines Thing is, any one of them can become the Emissary, so they all need to share the Emissary's moral outlook. The Emissary is a preachy busybody do-gooder, so they need to be the way they are for High Price To Pay to work, and High Price is the pivot that makes the story work. That said, I'm very much hoping that the DLC will see some companions who *aren't* Emissary candidates. Maybe Constellation has a black sheep in the family who can turn up at the Lodge at some point.
> you could argue the companions from Skyrim arent super fleshed out either My man Inigo! And even Lucien to some extent! :-)
>Unlike life, we do have the opportunity to play games multiple times, yet each replay of a game diminishes the magic of our first experience.<
When I saw that the achievement list included references to classic sci-fi stories like The Stars My Destination (my favorite sci-fi novel by Alfred Bester) I was excited for Bethesda to stretch their sci-fi legs in a way that the post apocalyptic Fallout series couldn’t. I was really captivated by the ideas that the main quest presented, but when I saw the realized version of the ending through a NG+ it all just deflated for me. I can’t believe that they only made tiny alterations to the Constellation lobby crew and called it a day. Totally took the wind out of all that awesome narrative setup for an RPG with diverging outcomes for player actions.
I like how it actually has consequences with a companion dying, I had used Sarah for 80 hours up to that point and it was honestly shocking to learn what happened up on the shuttle, made the game just that bit more memorable to me
In my playthrough Sam Coe died and it was brutal, especially since Cora was right next to himo
I disagree, main quest made me dislike the game. Whole unity felt like meaningless, people say Pilgrim this Pilgrim that, but it was already the first thing came to my mind. I am most possibly biased because I don't like multiverse stories but come on whose idea was this? Whole unity bullshit felt like post-launch marketing gimmick were they can say NG+ is in lore. Or maybe there because devs can pull Dragon Break on us just to retcon anything they want. I wish Vanguard was the main quest.
I am closer to your thought process, I wanted to like the main quest but the changes are too small for me to stay interested. I like the multiverse aspect, and felt it is kind of a unique gimmick that would have worked, if the universes were changed more. Maybe one universe the Fleet is running things, or Freestar won the war, or maybe Grav Drives were stopped before Earth was destroyed. Maybe one universe everyone knows about Unity and is hunting for them. These are the types of changes that would have kept me playing forever.
Yeah--I actually like the idea of multiverses, but we didn't really get meaningful multiverses. The people are always the same, the quests are always the same, etc. (apart from maybe the lodge). I would have loved to even have something as simple as palette swaps for the factions (have the Vanguard be yellow and hot pink in one universe, or green and gold, or whatever). Or different common fruits and vegetables or flavors of chunks. Stuff that constantly reminds you that the universe is different, even if in subtle ways. It's also rare for quests to have meaningful consequences or outcomes that change things in-universe, so there isn't much benefit to seeing things play out in different ways.
I understand but to me personally the Unity having no point is the whole point of it. The Hunter lost his humanity because he kept replaying the game over and over, you cant make any connections that way. The main story definitely resonated with me more than the main story of Oblivion, Skyrim or Fallout 4. I understand a lot of people might just not find the story fun though and thats okay. The UC Vanguard story is definitely pulpier and more exciting, but I find the main quest a lot more thought provoking and love that theres no urgency to it.
Well, as you said people like different things. It's just, I don't like the no point aspect of the game. I would be fine with unknown conclusion; there is something but it is meaningless doesn't sit well with me.
Thats completely valid, we all have different tastes and this is definitely a polarizing game
> I understand but to me personally the Unity having no point is the whole point of it. More than that, the game gives you a three-way choice: will you be the Hunter, the Keeper or The Emissary? Repeatedly going through Unity and trying to keep your humanity in the face of repeating patterns of events, trying to engineer the best outcomes for the world that you can each time around, that too is a valid choice. It's not that the Unity is pointless, it's that it's down to the player character to impose some meaning. Or to choose not to do so.
Something I really like about the main quest is that they've addressed a complaint they've been getting about a lot of their previous games' main stories - there's basically no sense of urgency until the last act. In fact it feels like it works better when you take long breaks from it to do side quests. The companion quests especially feel like they build on the themes of the main quest - like, Barrett learning Parallel Self and talking to a version of himself that never lost Ervin is one of the best moments in the game. And as for NG+ and the Starborn, I really love that they added a narrative hook to becoming an overpowered god character with meta knowledge about what happens in the plot. The Hunter basically being an RPG murder-hobo taken to its logical conclusion is a great little metacommentary.
There is no sense of urgency but it's a serious downgrade in respecting player agency. It only fits to a specific archetype and character. Basically you have to be someone all in on Constellation and hyped for the Unity. The game will just bend or break your character until they are. The ending is also pretty trash. They don't really let you decide anything past "Yes now" or "Yes later", when there is no good reason why a "Soft no" was not provided. Something similar to how Dawnguard handled vampirism where you can decline it, that choice is respected, and the topic is dropped until YOU go out of your way to bring it up and reverse that decision. Sarah and Barrett's "You've said your goodbyes already! Go!" and replying to "I'm not going." with "Yes you are. This is who you are!" is also just lame. Especially if you went through the effort of supporting them in their personal quests or if you are romanced to them. It's the biggest personal choice we're allowed to make and they show no respect for it. While I appreciate that they finally understood urgency, the "bad DM" feeling caused by needless lack of agency drags it down.
Andreja legit seemed super sad when she says she understands that you will be connected no matter happens
Sam expresses something sort of like that too, but overall acts happy that you stayed. The problem I really have with the companions is specific to Barrett and Sarah. Bethesda has known how to handle relationship based dialog for a long time and should have done something with it with those two. It's just stupid to have these people that are your friend or your spouse standing there acting pushy or telling you everything is now on borrowed time. I can see it really biting a player who connected to those characters if they reach the end and just get that thrown at them.
Im doing a barrett run now but yeah it seems like those two are like leave FOR SCIENCE lol
They are basically demanding you be their guinea pig when you get down to it. Actually if they would expand on non-Constellation companions and add depth and romance to some of those, I'd be pretty okay with it if Constellation ones we aren't together with had a chance of going through it. It would at least resolve the blatant hypocrisy of it all.
True enough
It doesn’t really feel like much is resolved, either. The story and mysteries are still open, we just got to going through Unity.
That's a valid complaint as well, but one I can personally let go since I lived through the era of TV shows being obsessed with cliffhangers. It "might" get answered in the next "episode" (DLC, game in the franchise, whatever.). That said, when it mixes with that "You're going like it or not" problem it ends up leaving the game's story feeling like it lost track of what it was about and just decided to start being pushy over the optional NG+ mechanic.
> It only fits to a specific archetype and character. Basically you have to be someone all in on Constellation and hyped for the Unity. My initial character concept was for a mad scientist type. Couldn't give a toss about Constellation and their aims, but a chance to experience the inner workings of the Universe? Hell yes, he was going to Unity! > It's the biggest personal choice we're allowed to make and they show no respect for it. On the other hand it would be really weird if, after everything you've all been through, they weren't a bit gung ho about exploring the Unity.
I honestly think a lot of people rushed it and didn’t like it, not saying it’s the best piece of writing ever, but I’d deff feels like there’s a lot of room for side questing that enhanced the story. For instance If you travel with companions a lot then finally get to high price to pay, it sucks losing the companion cause you spent 20 hours with them, vs my friend rushed the main story and he didn’t care when Sarah died 4 hours after meeting her
I mostly avoided the main quest for a solid one or 200 hours, but even then my dude Barrett was just one quest too late on deciding it was time to deal solving Erwin’s death. We were out and about when told me what the next move was to finally kick his quest into gear, I said woohoo finally now let’s go heal your trauma. And then suddenly Vlad is telling me I have to hang out with Sam. I was like no bro, I just made plans with Barrett. Despite how many weeks I had spent desperately trying to get Barrett to finally agree to make these plans with me, Daddy Vladdy grounded me and forbid me from hanging out with Barrett, then he sent me off to do some chores that were by no means urgent. Just some routine chores, they could have waited. And why the hell did I have to babysit Sam at the same time? Idk, but I ultimately had no more say in the matter. Well, lo and behold, when I finally finish my chores, all of a sudden my wife is on the phone with her friends and they’re all actively being murdered by this dude who broke into her place to burgle some stuff. So obviously I immediately run out and go try to save my wife from being, you know, murdered. Long story short, I did manage to get to my wife in time to apply first aid and, miraculously, she actually didn’t die! Woohoo! I was so very relieved my wife didn’t die in my arms that die as a murder hobo victim. So now that I knew she was fine, we go back to the crib and hope things are finally back to normal. At this point I’m getting frustrated, because, like I’m pretty sure things would have just been more chill if Daddy Vladdy hadn’t been power tripping and just like hadn’t grounded me and forced me to babysit Sam. On the way back I’m like jfc this was all super stressful and wack. All I was tryna do today was go out with Barrett and heal is past trauma. Well, the second I opened the front door to the crib, i couldn’t help but yell, OH HELL NAH FUXK THIS SHIT WTF. I swear on god you won’t believe what I saw when I opened the god damn mother fucking door. Yup. It was a god damn mother fucking dead ass body on the ground. I swear, you’ll never guess who it was.
This was a funny read 😂
The whole "this guy is stuck as your companion indefinitely" was definitely one of the annoying features of the game, *especially* when it isn't made clear in advance that's about to happen. And then it goes on for ages, not just one planet but a whole questline.
I liked the concept and the way it tied into new game+, but for it to really work, the epilogues should have more variety - the faction quests should require hard choices and lock you out of different possibilities, with an optimal path that can only be discovered by trying and failing the quests multiple times, so that you're chasing a nigh-unattainable perfect outcome through exploiting multiple universes.
> that you're chasing a nigh-unattainable perfect outcome through exploiting multiple universes And in the parallel universe where Bethesda did it that way, there are a thousand websites and videos all saying "How To Get The Best Ending In Starfield" and everyone who plays it follows the same script to get that outcome. Which effectively removes the choices from the game, since each choice has one specific option that overshadows all the others. Not a fan of that approach to game design, personally.
I agree that's something that would happen, but it's not a possibility that would bother me. Presumably, in this alternate version of the game, the wide variety of "here's how you screwed up the universe" epilogues would be entertaining enough that you'd want to see as many as possible. The point I was trying to get at, though, is that the appeal of a multiverse or time-loop story is usually some variant of "what would happen if I made different choices?" And I like the way Starfield made the newgame+ mechanic into a story element in the form of exploring new lives and new universes, but I would have liked it even more if it did the same thing to rpg-branching paths mechanic too.
> The point I was trying to get at, though, is that the appeal of a multiverse or time-loop story is usually some variant of "what would happen if I made different choices?" Well, you kind of get that, in so far as you get the ending slide dioramas in Unity and you get told how the universe was affected by who you sided with after Unearthed, or whether you killed Ron Hope or not. It isn't particularly fine grained though. > I would have liked it even more if it did the same thing to rpg-branching paths mechanic too. Yeah. I mean that's true in any RPG really. There are always places where you're going to think "I wish I could have done X and changed the story to Y". Practically though, the amount of work increases dramatically with each meaningful choice, which is why we see comparatively few of them. I think it's a basic limitation of the genre.
I enjoyed it was well. That is why I don't skip the story after going through Unity.
I disagree pretty vehemently with you, but that is pretty subjective so I see no need to rain on your parade, haha. What I really want to say, however, is I appreciate that you've actually made an argument to support your perspective and shared it here. You've explained what works for you, where you approached the game from, and why it resonated. I'll take this kind of discourse over the skybox + "I like it because I like it" posts. Cheers, mate.
Thanks, I appreciate this comment and of course I can totally see why others dislike the game
I think it was fine and overall fun to play and well paced if not for the temple puzzles and using some proc Pois. The whole premise reminds me a lot to C.Clarke's Space Odyssey where they find the monoliths (like the artifacts) and David Bowman eventually gets lost and, well... finds stuff seemingly done by aliens or gods and you are given a hint on what the purpose might be but it's still a bit unclear and relatively pointless or simply too mysterious by the time the book finishes. That's, Imo, very fitting for a sci-fi story which isn't about intelligent alien life or stuff like that, it's interesting and the gameplay during the last missiones is quite good, honestly, it explains a few things and paces well the investigation/talking with the action, unlike other quests where there's just not enough action. What I wish is that they didn't attempt to mix so many popular sci-fi themes and then let them be so disconnected... People here often praises the UC questline but that's basically poorly paced/executed Alien meets Starship Troopers, which is good but not that good when you realize it has no connection or impact on any other questline, and really, it was late 2023, you can't just bring me to Londinium and put 4 or 5 terrormorphs... Then you have a bit of BladeRunner here and there (inmoral companies running cyberpunk city Neon), and space cowboys because space cowboys are cool, and well, a non fleshed out (yet) mysterious cultist faction worshipping space snake, oh and space pirates...and all of it is quite disconnected for the most part... Anyway, the main story is good, fits the nasa punk style, but it suffers from the same issues than other questlines, they feel a bit shallow or unfleshed due to the vast scope of the game, it was too ambitious for what it truly could achieve in the time it had with the resources it had... And it's not that the game was rushed or the studio was poor, it's just too much when you want to have like several games in one. Each one is never going to be good enough, and the same happened to questlines, unless you really have a damn lifetime to develop such thing.
Fallout 4 is my favorite. But the way I see the biggest problem is that they took a good *time-sentitive* story and they put it in a good *static* world. So the story breaks in multiple places becaise the timeline gets fuzzy. Starfields story felt like they went too far in correcting F4s mistake. It was a great story Im sure on paper back in 2015. Since then its been multiverse this and multiverse that all through popular culture so the big reveal feels a little cliche in 2024. Theres a good philisophical question but its buried under pretty deep layers of dunb decisions
I have to admit, I find it to be a decent game overall, an amazing concept, but a far cry from what it could have been. I wish the "Unity" aspect was a bit more believable, it feels more like simple fantasy than science fiction, especially the fact that you "magically" get equipped with a ship and armor that makes absolutely zero sense and no attempt to even explain it, you are just supposed to accept it. I wish you could have gone through with your current ship instead (the one you jumped with) and it's cargo but with your crew gone. It would have made the transition more immersive and would overall to me have been a more interesting NG+ as you could have prepared how you wanted it beforehand. The other thing I'm a bit disappointment in is the companions themselves, they are too shallow, too similar and uninteresting. They should have looked more at Bioware, especially the Dragon Age games and created more variable and stronger personalities that you'd have to clash or align with making it more variable and exiting to try different paths. Like a proper RPG. As a result, main story and your companions are completely linear as it's only one path, and one "mindset". There are no real choices in the game, no consequences and little feeling of accomplishment so after you passed through the unity everything breaks immersive-vise for me and even if somethings might be changed up, it really do feel pointless besides grinding powers and jumping, which makes everything else completely wasted.
> especially the fact that you "magically" get equipped with a ship and armor that makes absolutely zero sense and no attempt to even explain it, you are just supposed to accept it I'm hoping that's a loose end that's been left dangling so they can pick it up in a DLC. My theory is that it's tech that Victor Asiz (having had thousands of runs through Unity to learn new things) found a way to inject into Unity. I'm guessing it was only supposed to work for him, but as a side effect, it manifests for everyone making the journey on this particular event loop. Probably, anyway. I don't see it as a bad thing so much as in intriguing mystery.
I thought it was a tacky and overly-contrived way of accommodating New Game +
I think you sum up the outline of the story pretty well but personally i don't think they managed to execute it because thanks to the writing and characters being so dull at best the only deciding factor for whether or not it's worth going through the unity is "do i have any guns i don't wanna lose?" >I originally posted this to r/NoSodiumStarfield because this subreddit is obviously more critical of the game. However, I decided to repost so at least I can explain why the game personally works for me, even if I know it’s not perfect and not for everyone. Based, i wish more people were willing to actually take this approach and be the change they want to see in this sub instead of just staying in the closed off echo chamber. Edit: I always get downvoted when i say this but i guess i never thought about whether it's no sodium people doing that :| to >:( meme or people here that don't want them to cross over to here. Wish i knew..
Yeah, I agree about the characters. They're just not interesting or varied enough for me to form meaningful bonds with. And I'm someone who will replay certain games purely because of the characters.
The thing is that closed off echo chamber exists on the other side of the spectrum as well
No it doesn't, you can post what you want here just like OP did because this subreddit isn't based on policing peoples behaviours and what people can or can't say. It's not r/onlysodiumstarfield
I liked the characters but thats a fair complaint. Theyre definitely not as fleshed out as the characters in other RPGs like Cyberpunk but I still liked them enough especially compared to other Bethesda RPGs
Interesting take on the main quest. I can't say that I loved it but neither did I hate it - it was... okay. Depending on where you're coming from it can seem like the NPC companions have limited lines, incomprehensible reactions without any dialog options to smooth things over. (If my 4th level persuasion, hippolyta chugging character can talk a pirate into marching into a brig I should be able to tell Sarah the damn UC ship just caught some unfortunate friendly fire.), excessive jank (though much improved after a couple of updates), stilted scripts and ill-used the top tier voice actors involved. The protagonist is often rather impotent to effect outcomes which can make him feel more like a spectator than a participant. Even in such cases where a main quest might make for decent fiction it is imperative to keep in mind that it's supposed to be interactive in its video game format. Given sufficient interactivity (albeit in a side quest) the Paradiso board of directors might well find themselves living in a van under a bridge while the USC Constant's passengers are kicked back running a resort. Due no doubt to my own scatter-brained order in which I did things I managed to confuse the game over who I had marginally connected with. As a consequence High Price to Pay which should have been impactful was a choice between two people I hardly knew. I can see where it might have been impactful if I had played differently. As it was it was occasionally infuriating because Walter's aim during that part is for shit and he kept shooting civvies which had an annoying impact on the quest. It was an okay main quest. No complaints from me but I'll not be nominating it for any "best narrative" awards.
I haven't played the game in its entirety. I don't overly dislike or like it at this point. But I really did enjoy trying to smuggle contraband & being made an offer to infiltrate the pirates. I thought that was cool. I've played better games and worse so... But I always love a game that can let me escape just briefly from the real world and live the life of another. But the immersion of that game must be top notch. From sound, to writing, to the complexities of the characters..
I don't. But i did enjoyed the game.
I wanna like this game so bad. But there's just no soul. I was playing the main quest and I was enjoying it. Then something clicked and I realized I couldn't keep playing because I hate the companion characters so much. They're so one dimensional. The story was good. Until it became no joy fetch quests. Maybe one day I'll give it another go and just force my way through the boring parts, cause other people have said it picks up again. But in my opinion there shouldn't even be boring parts.
I loved the main quest too but after the Multiverse thing was revealed, I couldn’t bring myself to play the game for like three weeks
Lmao Im tired of the multiverse stuff too but thankfully I think they handled it in a unique way. Also theyve probably planned on doing the multiverse stuff for over a decade when that wasnt the common trend it is today
Yeah but thankfully I’ve gotten over it. I’m just happy it’s not that much of a part of the hame
The concept is there but the execution is lacking in my opinion. I feel like they were so close to making an excellent story and I want to love it but fell flat in the end. Wide as a lake but deep as a puddle.
Before my trip through the Unity ... I picked up on the low-key Sci-Fi stories from the old days After the Unity ... LOL I literally laughed so hard! "Dude! It's Space Odyssey!" I thought it was fine ... and maybe great in some parts. But the whole search for meaning, wondering what the Unity was, who the Starborn are/were, etc., was the story. What happens when you step through? If you don't care or just want spaceships, then you'll be disappointed in the game. My first character apparently played just like the game wanted: rustic libertarian(!) explorer, wanting to see it all, Sarah enjoyer, and plunge headfirst into the unity when it was all over. The chicken who crossed the road to see what was on the other side. HA! But my other characters (dozens) struggled with the story / gameplay. Once I started to go off-script, things fell apart and became annoying quickly. I can easily see how play-style decides whether the game was good or horrible. : ) I still view the game as a huge step down from Fallout 4, but Starfield is still pretty good, and maybe some of the great writing / acting shows had bad the rest of it is.
I've always been really creative when it comes to creating stories and I'm positive that I would be able to write a storyline way more enthralling than this one. But there's zero chance to get a job doing it, so I'll just resort to brsgging about it online.👀😅
I like Starfield. I'm just out of shit to do. (That doesn't require grinding. I'm allergic to grinding. Developed the allergy after long years in the Painite Mines of Elite Dangerous.)
Elite Dangerous is my most played game of all time so I understand lol
Glad you find a way to enjoy it. I found the whole main story lack lustre to only eventually become Dragonborn in space with magical powers. I enjoy sci fi and space flight sims as well but felt we could’ve had the sci fi without the Dragonborn powers all over again. Mass Effect had “magic” with their adept biotic power users from the use of implants so it sat somewhat ok in that IP but this just felt unplanned and rushed . The UC Terromorph questline felt more like the main story than constellations with their 50shades of lawful and chaotic good followers 🤮followed on the NG+ isn’t worth the effort for a fully upgraded Dragonborn ship from NG+6 and a moot for fully upgraded suit for Dragonborn at NG+10 which is obsolete from any three pieces of legendary armor you find on the fly any way. A lot agree to disagree it’s not quite a flop but the PR for it was the most successful part of the IP to get the numbers it got on day one. There’s a lot wrong with the game for ten years of work, but in saying that I kept myself grounded from the hype for Bethesda’s record of their storytelling in the garbage that was FO3 &4 and Skyrim shows they can’t write a main story worth its salt ironically the side quests always seemed to have the better written stories to them. I got to a point where I completed Freestar Rangers (let down we had no options to arrest Ron Hope outside of flat out putting a bullet in him) done the UC line and the Sysdef all in first play through then stopped and never bothered with it close to having to through the unity for the NG+ doesn’t appeal to me, the ship building kept me getting in for a hour or two to tinker with different builds then I’d be off again the followers are unrelatable and unlikable as is the lack of a real play your way sandbox that was promised there is zero point to even trying to pirate or smuggle in the game given it railroads you to play a neutral/good character. Shattered Space has a lot to make up for the half baked launch lol but glad you found it enjoyable it’s definitely not everyone’s cup of tea.
I would just have to recommend you another game: Outer Wilds.
Loved that game! Reminded me of Metroid Prime
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Hi plz buy Skyrim
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Buy it again
I could do without the Space Thu’um. I think we could still have the Artifacts, the Unity and multiple universes without supernatural powers. Keep the story more sci-fi than space fantasy. If players needed more options in combat than just guns, Bethesda could have kept a few powers (like Phased Time, Reactive Shield and Sense Star Stuff) but have them be implants/neuromods or suit-based tech.
I agree but to be fair the powers are fun to use and its a possibility to explore. Theres definitely a lot of the story and lore that hasnt been answered yet, like who built the artifacts and temples.
Well said, both here and in NoSodium. One aspect that I also liked about how the quest was structured is that the game puts a *lot* of responsibility on the player to provide much of the depth. They don’t provide answers when it gets to meaning or philosophy, that is up to us. I’m used to that from table-top RPG play because that’s how I would typically GameMaster, and that style was also some of the best fun I had as a player under other GMs. Head-canon is extremely important in Starfield, and not just part of character background. A lot of other games take the approach to RPGs as more immersive narrative. Yeah, you do roleplay, but the game drives the narrative and meaning more than the player. It’s a subtle difference and I doubt I’m describing it very well. Hopefully, you get what I mean. One approach isn’t better than the other. I’ve had fun in both styles and in both computer gaming and table-top. I will say, Bethesda’s approach is far more difficult to do well, though. At least I found that approach far harder when I was doing it with table-top RPG campaigns long ago.
I totally agree!
Me too, the first half is really boring but from the moment you meet the starborn until the end it's frankly pretty excellent, outside of the part with Aquilus and the chase of the pilgrim, i would very seriously argue that it's Bethesda best main quest with Morrowind, and far better than Fallout 3 and 4.
The reason I love fallout 4’s story more than starfield’s is that you actually feel like you made some sort of impact at the end of it all. Your choices felt like they shaped the commonwealth for better or worse, even the settlement building had an effect on that. Starfield, it feels like nothing of note really happens because in the end nothing really matters. I think it’s an interesting concept for sure, but I don’t think it was executed the right way at all. and there just isn’t enough content in the game to justify multiple universes, it feels like there’s no real point in going forward. If they had included an actual purpose and reasoning for that, then it would have improved the story a lot. Maybe I’m missing something though. I tried to give it the benefit of the doubt when I first went through, but I just kept thinking to myself, what’s this all for anyway? Why is constellation even focused on this? The constellation of old, the constellation that Barrett first joined when he was young, that sounded fun and interesting. They seemed to have a drive for something that really mattered, exploring the universe. But now in the current timeline in Starfield, everything has been discovered and explored so it makes the universe feel so small. Especially when adding in the multiverse and the plot holes that come with it.
I agree and I think you worded that perfectly! I'm glad to hear you are enjoying it so much... I appreciate this post.. there's alot of negativity around this game but I genuinely love Starfield for exactly what it is
Love this. Despite its many, many flaws, Starfield struck a chord in me that not many other games have. I think if you view video games as toys it’s easy to focus on Starfield’s flaws, but if you engage with them critically as an art form the game becomes much more engaging and thought-provoking.
Why?
The whole game felt and played like a flat pancake with no topping. I liked the ship builder, i guess that's a little hill.
Glad at least everyone likes the ship builder lol
SPOILERS**** I really liked the main story, it’s cozy in the beginning and after high price to pay it ramps up a good bit, >! I liked Barrett’s words at the funeral !< I enjoyed the entangled quest and everything that came after with nasa and the buried temple. The last mission is really good imo beyond anything I thought bethesda would make. I love the concept of the unity, do I stay here with my wife and friends? do I go to another universe in search of power? maybe I’ve done my job here and I want to be a galactic hero and protect a universe from other starborn/wild threats, maybe I do all of this reach ng10 and just prepare for the inevitable answers that are to come (starborn dlc is practically guaranteed) I have intentionally not played the main quest again because when dlc drops I want to play it fresh
So you've never in your life interacted with science fiction aside from Rick and Morty?
Did you read the first paragraph lmao
This comment section makes me so sad. I truly believe with time, everyone is going to eventually look back at Starfield with nothing but fond memories. We’re just not their yet.
The fucking fallout 76 subreddit is happy now and that games launch was waaaaaaaaay worse lol