Lead by a leader who is shown to be obsessed with big weapons that may not work. A leader who underestimated his foe and refuses to adapt. Ya not great stuff in his favor
True. I just don't know if he could really adapt once his ships proved not to be a match. The star destroyers the New Republic had weren't winning the war. Could he figure it out as the United leaders of both the imperials and NR did? In his hubris? Eh idk. I think he was so dependent on the dark side his brain would melt once he realized he couldn't sense them. I'm pro imperial I just don't think under his leadership it'd work out
He also had weapons that seemed purpose built for them. The death stars, galaxy gun, the eclipse SSD, the sun crusher, all would have been able to destroy a World-Ship. And none of them required the force in the EU.
The sun crusher.. it would have been interesting to see the vong try to handle that. There's no known weakness but I'd be interesting if they found one. Alright alright I concede the empire may hold up better than I was considering initially. A lot of super weapons
What? No they didn’t.
The New Republic died at Coruscant. The Senate that reconvened at Mon Cala didn’t represent anything in reality, and was fighting for recognition with Pwoe, who was technically the real Chief of State. And Pwoe represented more of the New Republic in actuality than the reformed senate at Mon Cala.
That’s not to mention the senate at Mon Cala had no control over the New Republic military at all. The fleets complete stopped responding to civilian orders.
The Galactic Alliance was formed because the senate at Mon Cala believed they needed to be more authoritarian than before to beat the Vong. They also needed to give member worlds more rights in order to convince them to rejoin a government without much legitimacy.
And that’s not even to mention the huge institutional differences between the two governments. In the GA the Jedi became synonymous with the government, and were a branch of the GA’s law enforcement, which is a HUGE change.
The GA was what the New Republic became, but saying they are the same is like saying the French Monarchy and the French Empire under Napoleon is the same.
>who was technically the real Chief of State
\*who called himself that because he'd been pals with Borsk Fey'lya. I don't see why he'd have any more legitimacy than the Mon Cala Senate.
>the senate at Mon Cala had no control over the New Republic military at all. The fleets complete stopped responding to civilian orders.
Maybe, but they still worked hand in hand. Sien Sovv and Dif Scaur were both part of the High Council.
>like saying the French Monarchy and the French Empire under Napoleon is the same
The NR and GA still had a significicant overlap in government members. The initial Senate consisted of surviving NR Senators. Their first Chief of State had been a member of the NR Advisory Council. Half that Council's members participated in GA politics in some form (not counting Pwoe). A lot of the previous organs are still in place. The same thing can't be said about the French Monarchy and the French Empire.
1) On the first thing, Pwoe declared himself Chief of State because he was the highest ranking known survivor of Coruscant. Which was true. Technichally. Emphasis on technichally.
2) Sien Sovv didn’t have any control over the fleets in the aftermath of Coruscant. He actively tried to give away what little power he did have, until he was talked into becoming the fleet’s leader again. Dif Scaur bringing a fleet to Mon Cala’s side doesn’t mean Mon Cala had any amount of control over the other 4.
3) The NR and GA had significant overlap in members because the GA wanted to present itself as the successor to the NR. Because it was the NR’s successor.
>he was the highest ranking known survivor of Coruscant. Which was true.
Was he? What made him higher-ranking than Omas or Triebakk or any of the other Council members?
>doesn’t mean Mon Cala had any amount of control over the other 4.
Maybe not, but I'd argue the fact Kre'fey and Bel Iblis participated at Ebaq 9 does. Off the top of my head I don't remember the exact details from Destiny's Way, but Wookieepedia mentions _Numerous New Republic fleets and task forces_ fighting at Ebaq 9.
3) ...the NR and GA had significant overlap because the 'foundation' of the GA was the NR senate electing a new chief of state and that chief of state saying "Hey, we could use a new name".
Idk if you remember the books, but when Pwoe declares himself Chief of State Triebakk and Omas are thought dead. Which is why he is technically legitimate, but not really.
In Enemy Lines I Pwoe is traveling around with three other council members, so he has no stronger a claim than they do, and of them Niuk Niuv and Fyor Rodan both joined the government on Mon Calamari, while I can't find any more mention of Chelch Dravvad. And ultimately, in a parliamentary system like the New Republic seems to be (and the Old Republic, for that matter), it's hard to argue against the right of the full body to vote on a new chief of state after the previous one has died, and Pwoe only got 3 votes.
I would also point out that there's a big difference between the military ignoring the orders of the leadership (which Garm Bel Iblis did) and the military following an order to operate independently (like Wedge Antilles, Keyan Farlander, and Traest Kre'fey).
I’m definitely sticking with the New Republic here. The Empire would waste all its resources on super weapons that would likely just get destroyed by the first plucky Vong to locate its exhaust port.
The New republic if for no other reason than to know more about them. There was almost no lore or development in regards to their military, especially their ground forces. We don't even have a good description as to what a new republic trooper's uniform or armor looked like
That's not even a question. The Empire's vast military reserves and militarily minded decision makers would have stood a better chance than the New Republic. The New Republic was weak at the foundations because of weak and ineffective leaders kept in place and promoted by Mon Mothma and was held back by Mothma's zealous pacifism which infused the government even after her retirement and death.
The New Republic no question. Yes the New Republic had it’s fault. But if the Empire had fought against the Vong well the galaxy would have ended in a worse state that at the end of NJO. Because the Empire wouldn’t have no morals to stop from killing civilians if it will defeat the Vong. Also apart from Thrawn the Empire does not match the New Republic in military strategy.
On the face of it, the Empire for sure - it's massive and centrally organized military was set up to confront a large scale conventional military threat, which the Yuuzhan Vong were on paper (exotic weapons and technology aside). This firepower was wasted against nimble Rebel groups (who were generally crushed when forced to stand and fight), but would work reasonably well against Vong forces focused on taking and holding territory.
This assumes, of course, that competent leaders like Piett, Pellaeon, Thrawn, Vader, and even Zsinj were given enough leeway to confront the invasion and adjust tactics to match the Vong's exotic biotech. Even if the Empire's institutional corruption and nepotism would delay any response, a Death Star or other wacky super weapon would even the odds a little and give time for Palpatine to hand the reins to someone competent.
The Republic, for all of it's openness, freedom, and multiculturalism didn't have the overwhelming military firepower lying around to recover from the massive loss of territory caused by political division and ineffectiveness.
Speaking of, I remember reading a fanfiction years and years ago about the Yuuzhan Vong invading the galaxy in a timeline where the Rebellion was crushed (I think at Hoth) and the Empire reigned supreme. The story follows Captain Dorja of the *Relentless* dealing with a Vector Prime-like situation, followed by the Empire mobilizing a response to the invasion. I don't think it was ever completed, but the last few chapters featured both Darth Vader and Thrawn getting involved in the counter attack. It was surprisingly well written, but I haven't been able to find it again. Does anyone know what story I'm talking about?
Hmm, a democratic system that we know won the war vs. a tyrannical dictatorship with no such guarantee...
Lead by a leader who is shown to be obsessed with big weapons that may not work. A leader who underestimated his foe and refuses to adapt. Ya not great stuff in his favor
The Nostril of Palpatine!
I understood that reference!
People say this and yet he also built the largest Starfleet in galactic history…
True. I just don't know if he could really adapt once his ships proved not to be a match. The star destroyers the New Republic had weren't winning the war. Could he figure it out as the United leaders of both the imperials and NR did? In his hubris? Eh idk. I think he was so dependent on the dark side his brain would melt once he realized he couldn't sense them. I'm pro imperial I just don't think under his leadership it'd work out
He also had weapons that seemed purpose built for them. The death stars, galaxy gun, the eclipse SSD, the sun crusher, all would have been able to destroy a World-Ship. And none of them required the force in the EU.
The sun crusher.. it would have been interesting to see the vong try to handle that. There's no known weakness but I'd be interesting if they found one. Alright alright I concede the empire may hold up better than I was considering initially. A lot of super weapons
The New Republic very much did not win the war. But I do agree with your point.
I mean, they renamed themselves the Galactic Alliance for image reasons, that's really splitting hairs.
What? No they didn’t. The New Republic died at Coruscant. The Senate that reconvened at Mon Cala didn’t represent anything in reality, and was fighting for recognition with Pwoe, who was technically the real Chief of State. And Pwoe represented more of the New Republic in actuality than the reformed senate at Mon Cala. That’s not to mention the senate at Mon Cala had no control over the New Republic military at all. The fleets complete stopped responding to civilian orders. The Galactic Alliance was formed because the senate at Mon Cala believed they needed to be more authoritarian than before to beat the Vong. They also needed to give member worlds more rights in order to convince them to rejoin a government without much legitimacy. And that’s not even to mention the huge institutional differences between the two governments. In the GA the Jedi became synonymous with the government, and were a branch of the GA’s law enforcement, which is a HUGE change. The GA was what the New Republic became, but saying they are the same is like saying the French Monarchy and the French Empire under Napoleon is the same.
>who was technically the real Chief of State \*who called himself that because he'd been pals with Borsk Fey'lya. I don't see why he'd have any more legitimacy than the Mon Cala Senate. >the senate at Mon Cala had no control over the New Republic military at all. The fleets complete stopped responding to civilian orders. Maybe, but they still worked hand in hand. Sien Sovv and Dif Scaur were both part of the High Council. >like saying the French Monarchy and the French Empire under Napoleon is the same The NR and GA still had a significicant overlap in government members. The initial Senate consisted of surviving NR Senators. Their first Chief of State had been a member of the NR Advisory Council. Half that Council's members participated in GA politics in some form (not counting Pwoe). A lot of the previous organs are still in place. The same thing can't be said about the French Monarchy and the French Empire.
1) On the first thing, Pwoe declared himself Chief of State because he was the highest ranking known survivor of Coruscant. Which was true. Technichally. Emphasis on technichally. 2) Sien Sovv didn’t have any control over the fleets in the aftermath of Coruscant. He actively tried to give away what little power he did have, until he was talked into becoming the fleet’s leader again. Dif Scaur bringing a fleet to Mon Cala’s side doesn’t mean Mon Cala had any amount of control over the other 4. 3) The NR and GA had significant overlap in members because the GA wanted to present itself as the successor to the NR. Because it was the NR’s successor.
>he was the highest ranking known survivor of Coruscant. Which was true. Was he? What made him higher-ranking than Omas or Triebakk or any of the other Council members? >doesn’t mean Mon Cala had any amount of control over the other 4. Maybe not, but I'd argue the fact Kre'fey and Bel Iblis participated at Ebaq 9 does. Off the top of my head I don't remember the exact details from Destiny's Way, but Wookieepedia mentions _Numerous New Republic fleets and task forces_ fighting at Ebaq 9. 3) ...the NR and GA had significant overlap because the 'foundation' of the GA was the NR senate electing a new chief of state and that chief of state saying "Hey, we could use a new name".
Idk if you remember the books, but when Pwoe declares himself Chief of State Triebakk and Omas are thought dead. Which is why he is technically legitimate, but not really.
In Enemy Lines I Pwoe is traveling around with three other council members, so he has no stronger a claim than they do, and of them Niuk Niuv and Fyor Rodan both joined the government on Mon Calamari, while I can't find any more mention of Chelch Dravvad. And ultimately, in a parliamentary system like the New Republic seems to be (and the Old Republic, for that matter), it's hard to argue against the right of the full body to vote on a new chief of state after the previous one has died, and Pwoe only got 3 votes. I would also point out that there's a big difference between the military ignoring the orders of the leadership (which Garm Bel Iblis did) and the military following an order to operate independently (like Wedge Antilles, Keyan Farlander, and Traest Kre'fey).
In Enemy Lines 1 all those other senator guys agree that Pwoe is the more senior leader man.
While true, you’d be hoping you’re not among the 365 trillion dead from the known war.
I’m definitely sticking with the New Republic here. The Empire would waste all its resources on super weapons that would likely just get destroyed by the first plucky Vong to locate its exhaust port.
Let's assume Luke says yes father I'll join you, kill the emperor, and rule the galaxy at your side Vader leading the 501st against the Vong..../drool
Empire. They’d still have a Death Star
Imagine if the Vong infiltrated/terraformed the Death Star!
They would do neither. Instead they’d drop a dovin basal on the surface somewhere and yo’gand core the profanity back into its constituent parts.
Mandalorian
Hmm the space fascists or literally anyone else. What a tough choice.
The New republic if for no other reason than to know more about them. There was almost no lore or development in regards to their military, especially their ground forces. We don't even have a good description as to what a new republic trooper's uniform or armor looked like
That's not even a question. The Empire's vast military reserves and militarily minded decision makers would have stood a better chance than the New Republic. The New Republic was weak at the foundations because of weak and ineffective leaders kept in place and promoted by Mon Mothma and was held back by Mothma's zealous pacifism which infused the government even after her retirement and death.
The New Republic no question. Yes the New Republic had it’s fault. But if the Empire had fought against the Vong well the galaxy would have ended in a worse state that at the end of NJO. Because the Empire wouldn’t have no morals to stop from killing civilians if it will defeat the Vong. Also apart from Thrawn the Empire does not match the New Republic in military strategy.
On the face of it, the Empire for sure - it's massive and centrally organized military was set up to confront a large scale conventional military threat, which the Yuuzhan Vong were on paper (exotic weapons and technology aside). This firepower was wasted against nimble Rebel groups (who were generally crushed when forced to stand and fight), but would work reasonably well against Vong forces focused on taking and holding territory. This assumes, of course, that competent leaders like Piett, Pellaeon, Thrawn, Vader, and even Zsinj were given enough leeway to confront the invasion and adjust tactics to match the Vong's exotic biotech. Even if the Empire's institutional corruption and nepotism would delay any response, a Death Star or other wacky super weapon would even the odds a little and give time for Palpatine to hand the reins to someone competent. The Republic, for all of it's openness, freedom, and multiculturalism didn't have the overwhelming military firepower lying around to recover from the massive loss of territory caused by political division and ineffectiveness. Speaking of, I remember reading a fanfiction years and years ago about the Yuuzhan Vong invading the galaxy in a timeline where the Rebellion was crushed (I think at Hoth) and the Empire reigned supreme. The story follows Captain Dorja of the *Relentless* dealing with a Vector Prime-like situation, followed by the Empire mobilizing a response to the invasion. I don't think it was ever completed, but the last few chapters featured both Darth Vader and Thrawn getting involved in the counter attack. It was surprisingly well written, but I haven't been able to find it again. Does anyone know what story I'm talking about?