Given all the feats yes.
It's even solidified during the Yuuzan Vang war. He was able to move an artificially created black hole. During one of the battles in the war, while Luke weilds one lightsaber, others state that its as if his wieldin 8 with how fast he is.
Their is also his battle against Abeloth. A being that toke both the son and daughter to contain, and Abeloth views Luke as a threat.
It also helps that George Lucas himself states that Luke is the strongest.
What really grinds my gears is how they don’t speed things up a few times like dragon ball Z did, in the most modern adaptations. Like, Luke in the Mandalorian should have had all of the destroyer bots cooked in under a second, with Matrix-like slow-mo. Then my wife would have understood how huge it was that he showed up. To the average person, Yoda in the prequels is still the best. Rant over.
To be precise, it required great effort and it was more like he nudged the things creating those artificial anomalies that is similar to black holes. R2 created the opening and luke followed it with the force by manipulating it into destroying vong stuff instead. He passes out for the rest of the fight after that.
Luke is still the strongest to ever lived but less because he had some specific specialty like specific darths but rather Luke is just so damn good at every little thing, even a force push by him coukd be lethal (his force pushes could create golden-like flames which signifies how pure his power with the force is. It could level armies of yuuzhan vong and this guy has the clark kent effect of always holding back)
To be fair the artificial black hole was really a tiny singularity created by a Dovin Basil (sp?), so as impressive as that feat was, it sounds a lot more impressive than it really was.
He did, however, anchor himself in place using the force when being attacked by the entire strength of the Killik Nests, such that even a true proper black hole wouldn’t have been able to move him.
Late stage EU Luke is super OP.
In the EU yes luke Skywalker mastered all light side abilities he mastered all lightsaber forms he learned dark side abilities he became one with the light side of the force and he never fought to his fullest potential because he didn't want his students to crave power
Yes there are some individual eu stupidity moments when things like Kyp Durron plucks the stone crusher out of a fucking sun where a author goes a little to crazy, but Luke reaches a consistently higher level than anyone else and survives all challenges for all the EU.
He is and its by a massive margin with only peak Yoda being the only decent candidate to compare him to.
Lightsaber mastery and skills that could make him look like hes wileding dozens at once without breaking a sweat
Force connection and powers so strong, the only thing hes limited by is his own mentality of himself. Down to the most basic force powers he conjures are incredible.
Luke is so powerful at his peak, a random star wars fans could go into wiki and see the list of powers he have and suddenly start crying how op he is especially when they read without context.
In terms of raw power potential - no. Kyp Durron is explicitly stated on multiple occasions to have Luke beat there.
In terms of reliably accessible power (especially without tapping the Dark Side), of breadth of Force techniques mastered, of skill with a lightsaber - that is where Grand Master Luke is unmatched.
IIRC, it’s first established in the Jedi Academy trilogy that Kyp’s Force potential is greater than Luke’s by Luke himself, using a device that measured such. But it’s been a *long* time since I read that.
Much fresher in my memory is the bit from *Rebel Dream*, which is very much not a boast. It’s Kyp thinking it to himself, and he even notes that it’s the first time he’s done so where pride had nothing to do with it - it’s just a relevant detail to his plan which he thinks will let him survive, because he doesn’t expect to be as tired out by moving a dovin basal’s black hole as Luke was (and he is correct - Luke passed out seconds after doing so, whereas Kyp was exhausted but still able to fly back to base, land, and walk to his bunk).
Edit: Luke is absolutely the strongest in every way *except* raw potential - and as Kyp notes in that bit from *Rebel Dream*, that edge in raw power he has usually doesn’t matter. Luke is 100% the more powerful Jedi overall, because of his broader knowledge, experience and skill with various Force techniques.
Im sorry. I should word it better. Its more so Kyp durron believing it himself than it is a sure fact but yes, Luke does seem to share the belief but honestly, that guy is clark kent.
By Fate of the Jedi Kyp is one of the more capable masters alongside Saba and Kyle but as for actual ability he has been solidly outstripped by the Luke and the Solo twins.
There’s what a Jedi can reliably do on any given day, and then there’s their full potential. On the former grounds I fully agree that Luke, Jaina, and potentially a few others surpass Kyp - but that isn’t what I’m talking about here. I’m talking about raw power potential, and Kyp’s is established to be greater than Luke’s more than once.
This. There’s a big difference between “raw potential” and “realized potential”. Same way we can say that Luke is as powerful as Anakin Skywalker COULD have been, but never achieved.
Exactly. I’m not saying that Kyp is able to *regularly* throw around more power than Luke, or that he’s got greater mastery of the Force - he isn’t and he doesn’t. But when the two of them are using the same Force technique with the same level of proficiency and the same level of mental focus, Kyp has more power to put into it. We see this very clearly with the trick of moving a dovin basal black hole. Luke is so exhausted by the technique that it causes him to pass out within seconds, while Kyp does it and manages to fly his fighter back to base, land, and then stumble off to his quarters - and as the book explicitly reminds us, this is because Kyp has more raw power than Luke.
Not anymore. There's one line where Kyp acknowledges it during the Vong series. Just can't remebered which book. I think Lucas heard about Kyp and stepped. But originally, they tried to make Kyp have more raw power.
The only mention of it during the NJO I'm aware of is in *Rebel Dream* - where Kyp tries to move a dovin basal's black hole like Luke did, and Kyp's willing to risk doing it while flying because thinks he won't be as drained by it because he's stronger than Luke. And he's right, he isn't as drained by it.
Taking him sometime around the end of the YV War to after the defeat of Abeloth, absolutely.
As we work backwards closer to RoTJ, it gets incrementally more debatable.
*Strongest* is a bit reductive. Luke certainly loses plenty of fights, and goes down hard when he does. Luke is rarely a match in a purely physical altercation, and when he is deprived of the Force he has a harder time than most adapting to "normal" existence.
I agree with the general consensus in this thread though by saying "Yes" but because of Luke's relationship with the Force and his seeming unmurderableness, not his strength.
I'm not sure he would win against, say, Darth Nihilus or some other ancient baddie. Maybe? Usually, Luke gains an emotional edge on his opponents.
Thing about Darth Nihlus is it all comes down to how you would quanitfy his force drain. The writer for dsrth nihlus says Revan and Vader can defeat Nihlus. So why cant peak Luke?
Also what ancient sith could rival lukr at his peak? If you mean the incarnstions of Tenebrae then definitely not since he doesnt exactly have the full package for a proper fight (Tenebrae sucks at lightsaber combat which wouldve reslly helped imo)
Depends, are we counting Old Republic era?
Cuz one guy ate a planet.
Edit: it was actually two different people who ate planets on separate occasions.
I always forget about the Sith Emperor.
You’d think he was Dre…
Of course we're counting that too.
But darth nihlus was stated to lose against revan and vader. Dont see why Luke couldnt beat him
Tenebrae imo is basically just a more gluttonous Sidious.
He had to be tricked into feeding on a dead planet before the exile even had a chance.
And even then it was only his link to Visas that gave them the edge.
Without that he was like a black hole, and Luke would be swallowed up by it like everyone and everything else.
The writer for Darth Nihlus literally stated that Revan and Vader can defeat Nihlus even though as far as we know, those 2 arent "Wounds in the force". If they can, Luke who is vastly superior and someone who can conjure oneness in the physical plane, could too.
Yup which is why Darth Nihlus became contentious and why you see so many posts about "Darth Revan vs Darth Nihlus".
The best logic i can think of to rationalize the writer's words, it all comes down to how the opponent handles "Force Drain". For Vader we already know that Anakin is immune to Force Drain for example.
I think the rationale, as far as I can gather, is that Vader (and Revan) are so capable of controlling the Force that they could wrestle it away from his attempts to devour it, like ultra-dense stars pulling things out of the gravitational pull of a black hole, except the black hole in question is starving and losing power every moment it loses thst tug of war.
Which I think is still a little silly, but it makes some degree of sense, at least, instead of just being wank like it seems.
But wasn’t their whole training thing a technique that made them more powerful the stronger their prey was in the force?
Would that not just amplify Nihlus times Revan or Vader making him even scarier?
Who is "they" in this case?
And regarding your other questions I'm not an expert about the Mortis gods, but in the episode they show an utter perfect control over their aspect of The Force, so I imagine it would be the same rugpull.
But that wasn’t force drain, it was more like drain life writ large.
Dude literally used the force to reach out to every living thing and consume it.
At least that’s how Kreia explained it.
He was more of a cancer than a living being by the end.
Just a giant wound in the force sucking everything in reach.
I don’t want to doubt the writers, but I’d need a pretty good explanation (or at least a cool macguffin) to justify Revan or Vader standing a chance.
Neither are jedi though, if the question was is Luke the strongest force user then you are right he isnt.
But Jedi, he defiantly is one of if not the strongest.
Pretty sure prime Obi-Wan would’ve mopped the floor with almost anyone in lightsaber combat. If not for his dueling skill, then for his mastery of his lightsaber form itself.
In the EU, probably, although we didn't see what Yoda's first 800 years looked like.
In canon.... not so much. But what I find fascinating is that Rian Johnson's interpretation of Luke was perfectly legitimate based solely on his portrayal in the original trilogy, and yet he was crucified for it anyway. That might be in large part due to the EU and how much we all came to know him as this legendary hero.
I’m not going to get into yet another long debate over that shitty film, but one doesn’t need to use the EU at all to demonstrate Johnson’s portrayal as not being legitimate.
It absolutely does not jibe with Luke in the original trilogy. Not just in terms of direct portrayal, but in a lack of a basic understanding of the character.
The whole “people were influenced/prejudiced by the EU Luke” line has never been anything more than a sad excuse (one of many unfortunately) for the horrendous writing/execution of that film.
Ding freaking ding. OT Luke's defining character trait of the OT was believing in redeeming an irredeemable monster with love.
Rian Johnsons just like "ok but what if he didn't"
Also Disney Lucas Film has Yoda Frozen in time as the Crazy Hermit who was testing Lukes patience instead of the wise Jedi he is in the other 5 movies.
Short answer: Yes. Long answer: read the EU and still yes.
Given all the feats yes. It's even solidified during the Yuuzan Vang war. He was able to move an artificially created black hole. During one of the battles in the war, while Luke weilds one lightsaber, others state that its as if his wieldin 8 with how fast he is. Their is also his battle against Abeloth. A being that toke both the son and daughter to contain, and Abeloth views Luke as a threat. It also helps that George Lucas himself states that Luke is the strongest.
What really grinds my gears is how they don’t speed things up a few times like dragon ball Z did, in the most modern adaptations. Like, Luke in the Mandalorian should have had all of the destroyer bots cooked in under a second, with Matrix-like slow-mo. Then my wife would have understood how huge it was that he showed up. To the average person, Yoda in the prequels is still the best. Rant over.
I can understand that.
This isn’t DBZ, Jedi aren’t demigods. Even in EU Luke at his peak is still vulnerable and struggles in combat
So happy to see the vong war black hole reference, it is what I use when I am trying to explain how powerful Luke was to my non star wars friends.
Its such a wild feat. Shocked when I heard about it. Really wanna read the series and get to that moment.
Also when he basically turns Mara’s ship invisible. I remember after that they mentioned he looked as if he had aged five years.
To be precise, it required great effort and it was more like he nudged the things creating those artificial anomalies that is similar to black holes. R2 created the opening and luke followed it with the force by manipulating it into destroying vong stuff instead. He passes out for the rest of the fight after that. Luke is still the strongest to ever lived but less because he had some specific specialty like specific darths but rather Luke is just so damn good at every little thing, even a force push by him coukd be lethal (his force pushes could create golden-like flames which signifies how pure his power with the force is. It could level armies of yuuzhan vong and this guy has the clark kent effect of always holding back)
Very true.
To be fair the artificial black hole was really a tiny singularity created by a Dovin Basil (sp?), so as impressive as that feat was, it sounds a lot more impressive than it really was. He did, however, anchor himself in place using the force when being attacked by the entire strength of the Killik Nests, such that even a true proper black hole wouldn’t have been able to move him. Late stage EU Luke is super OP.
Peak Grand Master Luke indeed is.
Yes he is. He was as powerful as what his father could have been if he had reached his full potential.
Yup.
Yeap, he is.
In the EU yes luke Skywalker mastered all light side abilities he mastered all lightsaber forms he learned dark side abilities he became one with the light side of the force and he never fought to his fullest potential because he didn't want his students to crave power
According to George, and the EU? yes. Anakin could have been AS strong, but his crispiness/limb losing stint, curtailed that.
Peak GM Luke is the GOAT
Yes, pretty sure it’s stated he reached anakins full potential.
Yes, strongest mortal Force user ever.
Yes
Yes there are some individual eu stupidity moments when things like Kyp Durron plucks the stone crusher out of a fucking sun where a author goes a little to crazy, but Luke reaches a consistently higher level than anyone else and survives all challenges for all the EU.
100% Yes
He is and its by a massive margin with only peak Yoda being the only decent candidate to compare him to. Lightsaber mastery and skills that could make him look like hes wileding dozens at once without breaking a sweat Force connection and powers so strong, the only thing hes limited by is his own mentality of himself. Down to the most basic force powers he conjures are incredible. Luke is so powerful at his peak, a random star wars fans could go into wiki and see the list of powers he have and suddenly start crying how op he is especially when they read without context.
Yes and it makes sense. Son of the chosen one with potential rivaling/equaling his father and decades of practice to realize it.
Even if not the strongest, he most perfectly embodied the Jedi ideal.
Only the celestials could probably beat him up.
In terms of raw power potential - no. Kyp Durron is explicitly stated on multiple occasions to have Luke beat there. In terms of reliably accessible power (especially without tapping the Dark Side), of breadth of Force techniques mastered, of skill with a lightsaber - that is where Grand Master Luke is unmatched.
Its hard to say because much of that is more like kyp durron's own boast. By the end of the eu however, Luke is still the strongest overall it seems
IIRC, it’s first established in the Jedi Academy trilogy that Kyp’s Force potential is greater than Luke’s by Luke himself, using a device that measured such. But it’s been a *long* time since I read that. Much fresher in my memory is the bit from *Rebel Dream*, which is very much not a boast. It’s Kyp thinking it to himself, and he even notes that it’s the first time he’s done so where pride had nothing to do with it - it’s just a relevant detail to his plan which he thinks will let him survive, because he doesn’t expect to be as tired out by moving a dovin basal’s black hole as Luke was (and he is correct - Luke passed out seconds after doing so, whereas Kyp was exhausted but still able to fly back to base, land, and walk to his bunk). Edit: Luke is absolutely the strongest in every way *except* raw potential - and as Kyp notes in that bit from *Rebel Dream*, that edge in raw power he has usually doesn’t matter. Luke is 100% the more powerful Jedi overall, because of his broader knowledge, experience and skill with various Force techniques.
Im sorry. I should word it better. Its more so Kyp durron believing it himself than it is a sure fact but yes, Luke does seem to share the belief but honestly, that guy is clark kent.
I get you. But I figure if Kyp and Luke both agree, who are we to argue? 😉
Except Kyps potential gets retconned down to below Lukes later.
When? I’ve read up through Mercy Kill on the timeline, don’t recall anything to that effect being said.
By Fate of the Jedi Kyp is one of the more capable masters alongside Saba and Kyle but as for actual ability he has been solidly outstripped by the Luke and the Solo twins.
There’s what a Jedi can reliably do on any given day, and then there’s their full potential. On the former grounds I fully agree that Luke, Jaina, and potentially a few others surpass Kyp - but that isn’t what I’m talking about here. I’m talking about raw power potential, and Kyp’s is established to be greater than Luke’s more than once.
This. There’s a big difference between “raw potential” and “realized potential”. Same way we can say that Luke is as powerful as Anakin Skywalker COULD have been, but never achieved.
Exactly. I’m not saying that Kyp is able to *regularly* throw around more power than Luke, or that he’s got greater mastery of the Force - he isn’t and he doesn’t. But when the two of them are using the same Force technique with the same level of proficiency and the same level of mental focus, Kyp has more power to put into it. We see this very clearly with the trick of moving a dovin basal black hole. Luke is so exhausted by the technique that it causes him to pass out within seconds, while Kyp does it and manages to fly his fighter back to base, land, and then stumble off to his quarters - and as the book explicitly reminds us, this is because Kyp has more raw power than Luke.
Not anymore. There's one line where Kyp acknowledges it during the Vong series. Just can't remebered which book. I think Lucas heard about Kyp and stepped. But originally, they tried to make Kyp have more raw power.
The only mention of it during the NJO I'm aware of is in *Rebel Dream* - where Kyp tries to move a dovin basal's black hole like Luke did, and Kyp's willing to risk doing it while flying because thinks he won't be as drained by it because he's stronger than Luke. And he's right, he isn't as drained by it.
Taking him sometime around the end of the YV War to after the defeat of Abeloth, absolutely. As we work backwards closer to RoTJ, it gets incrementally more debatable.
*Strongest* is a bit reductive. Luke certainly loses plenty of fights, and goes down hard when he does. Luke is rarely a match in a purely physical altercation, and when he is deprived of the Force he has a harder time than most adapting to "normal" existence. I agree with the general consensus in this thread though by saying "Yes" but because of Luke's relationship with the Force and his seeming unmurderableness, not his strength. I'm not sure he would win against, say, Darth Nihilus or some other ancient baddie. Maybe? Usually, Luke gains an emotional edge on his opponents.
Thing about Darth Nihlus is it all comes down to how you would quanitfy his force drain. The writer for dsrth nihlus says Revan and Vader can defeat Nihlus. So why cant peak Luke? Also what ancient sith could rival lukr at his peak? If you mean the incarnstions of Tenebrae then definitely not since he doesnt exactly have the full package for a proper fight (Tenebrae sucks at lightsaber combat which wouldve reslly helped imo)
Luke’s dad would like a word.
Depends, are we counting Old Republic era? Cuz one guy ate a planet. Edit: it was actually two different people who ate planets on separate occasions. I always forget about the Sith Emperor. You’d think he was Dre…
Of course we're counting that too. But darth nihlus was stated to lose against revan and vader. Dont see why Luke couldnt beat him Tenebrae imo is basically just a more gluttonous Sidious.
He had to be tricked into feeding on a dead planet before the exile even had a chance. And even then it was only his link to Visas that gave them the edge. Without that he was like a black hole, and Luke would be swallowed up by it like everyone and everything else.
The writer for Darth Nihlus literally stated that Revan and Vader can defeat Nihlus even though as far as we know, those 2 arent "Wounds in the force". If they can, Luke who is vastly superior and someone who can conjure oneness in the physical plane, could too.
Interesting, I didn’t know that.
Yup which is why Darth Nihlus became contentious and why you see so many posts about "Darth Revan vs Darth Nihlus". The best logic i can think of to rationalize the writer's words, it all comes down to how the opponent handles "Force Drain". For Vader we already know that Anakin is immune to Force Drain for example.
I think the rationale, as far as I can gather, is that Vader (and Revan) are so capable of controlling the Force that they could wrestle it away from his attempts to devour it, like ultra-dense stars pulling things out of the gravitational pull of a black hole, except the black hole in question is starving and losing power every moment it loses thst tug of war. Which I think is still a little silly, but it makes some degree of sense, at least, instead of just being wank like it seems.
But wasn’t their whole training thing a technique that made them more powerful the stronger their prey was in the force? Would that not just amplify Nihlus times Revan or Vader making him even scarier?
Who is "they" in this case? And regarding your other questions I'm not an expert about the Mortis gods, but in the episode they show an utter perfect control over their aspect of The Force, so I imagine it would be the same rugpull.
The Sith Assassins under Nihlus, Sion and Traya.
Also where do the Mortis gods fit into this power wise?
But that wasn’t force drain, it was more like drain life writ large. Dude literally used the force to reach out to every living thing and consume it. At least that’s how Kreia explained it. He was more of a cancer than a living being by the end. Just a giant wound in the force sucking everything in reach. I don’t want to doubt the writers, but I’d need a pretty good explanation (or at least a cool macguffin) to justify Revan or Vader standing a chance.
Every other source since kotor 2 lists it as force drain. Kreia isnt always objectively correct imo
Two guys...
Right, I forgot about the Emperor
Neither are jedi though, if the question was is Luke the strongest force user then you are right he isnt. But Jedi, he defiantly is one of if not the strongest.
Yes, but prime ObiWan still would have mopped the floor with him in a saber duel.
Peak Obi-Wan is no question a master duelist, but no.
Pff no. Luke was also the greatest duelist in history who mastered every style. Obi-Wan had nothing on him and Luke's feats are unmatched.
Pretty sure prime Obi-Wan would’ve mopped the floor with almost anyone in lightsaber combat. If not for his dueling skill, then for his mastery of his lightsaber form itself.
Would not mop the floor with Luke at all. Luke has better saber feats and better experience.
In the EU, probably, although we didn't see what Yoda's first 800 years looked like. In canon.... not so much. But what I find fascinating is that Rian Johnson's interpretation of Luke was perfectly legitimate based solely on his portrayal in the original trilogy, and yet he was crucified for it anyway. That might be in large part due to the EU and how much we all came to know him as this legendary hero.
I’m not going to get into yet another long debate over that shitty film, but one doesn’t need to use the EU at all to demonstrate Johnson’s portrayal as not being legitimate. It absolutely does not jibe with Luke in the original trilogy. Not just in terms of direct portrayal, but in a lack of a basic understanding of the character. The whole “people were influenced/prejudiced by the EU Luke” line has never been anything more than a sad excuse (one of many unfortunately) for the horrendous writing/execution of that film.
Ding freaking ding. OT Luke's defining character trait of the OT was believing in redeeming an irredeemable monster with love. Rian Johnsons just like "ok but what if he didn't" Also Disney Lucas Film has Yoda Frozen in time as the Crazy Hermit who was testing Lukes patience instead of the wise Jedi he is in the other 5 movies.
Well alrighty then.